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The X Show, June 5, 2023

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Therapist talks about Infidelity and couples
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with Tony and Donna Xu

Talking about infidelity amongst couples and how it's viewed from a therapeutic perspective with co-host Donna Xu providing her unique therapist perspective and with Tony Xu

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The X Show is where we explore the issues surrounding life, business, and everything else. Hosted by Tony Xu and Donna Xu, we'll learn from the everyman, the business leader, and people who've found their true passions in life while experiencing what the world around us has to offer. Join us as we uncover the X factors of life on our little blue marble.

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Show Transcript (automatic text 90% accurate)

call Darren welcome to the X show with your host Tony XU real to an entrepreneur I have with me a special guest today my wife please introduce yourself hello my name is Donna XU I am a licensed marriage and family therapist Associates and I'm happy to be here yes I'm happy to have you here to we are today we're going to be discussing a something that is close to many of all of their listeners
we can be talking about couples therapy as she happens to be an expert in with many years of experience in this field in fact she wants old private practice right here in Plano Texas that's always going to be feeling her mind will be understanding how it is that couples can work together and what exactly couples therapy really is cuz couples therapy to some people I know I am aware of it is has some stigma and so let's try the demystifies this as a topic and see whether or not you list note could benefit from some or if you know somebody who might
are you ready to talk yeah I wanted to kind of start off with a short disclaimer that that the show and everything that I say within the show is not to be a replacement for any kind of treatment by any kind of licensed professional everything that I say is opinion and it's meant for education and entertainment entertainment purposes only just wanted to say that
got to be careful about these things be careful and I love love start off with really the most basic questions what do you what is couples therapy to you
what is couples therapy
I think it's kind of interesting is kind of a big question but what is it it in the short answer it's
two people agreeing the key word is agreeing to go to therapy together and couples therapy implies that they are in a relationship of some kind doesn't need to be married that can be dating they can be engaged they can be married or you know whichever one but it typically means they are in a relationship that's the simplest explanation of what couples therapy isn't that the reason of their coming to do any kind of therapies that they're doing it with the express purpose of working
together on their relationship
that's it excellent summation so you experience as an lmft a what are some common challenges that couples face when they looking for Philippi
common challenges well I mean I think the biggest one is infidelity the pretty common thing infidelity all all seven types of infidelity it could be you know when I stand it can be something premeditated it could be the longtime long-term infidelity is all the types of infidelity so I would say that's a pretty common one is a pretty big one I got a lot of when people say we're going to couples therapy because we're not communicating well that's another one that I get a lot and it's too usually it goes a little bit deeper than that it's not just miscommunication but it's definitely a form of not being able to understand how your partner feels about certain things or interpreting what your partner says
in a way that either hurts
damage is a relationship or has been damaging the relationship and it kind of kind of leads to the couple having a negative interaction cycle and then I make that they don't like but they can't seem to get out of and that's typically why I get clients like when they decide to come to me either one of us not those are not the only ones but those are just a few examples of what I get
all right well let stick into a little bit deeper you mentioned there was seven types of infidelity I'm not sure everyone that that's really common knowledge for everyone could you go into that little bit more yes so as I said there's seven types the first one is the one that everybody thinks about which is the full-blown physical relationship you know it's the one where they've been talking for a while and they've been having a relationship over a long. Of time it's the same like the classic like they're cheating on me kind of definition and it tends to be sexual so I was the biggest one
the next one is
the emotional affair this is another really common one it's basically cheating without the sexual part of it and this is off and I think contested whether it is or isn't an affair because nothing has physically happened but it's a form of it's considered a form of cheating because it is cheating the definition of therapeutic I wouldn't say this is like it in any like like DSM definition of cheating but the understanding in the therapy world of cheating is kind of thinking it has delving energy elsewhere
that you could be when it comes to a relationship so like relationship energy you're putting that in something else as opposed to putting that in your relationship so you are spending that energy elsewhere and I can involve an emotional affair can hold a sexual Affair the typical Nina physical Affair those are like examples of how that would look like so that's the second one did you want me to go into all 7 let's let's stop at that emotional affair because I think as as you said there's a little great areas to whether or not a lot of people truly consider that to be an affair and you mentioned that kind of the defining characteristic is that so the delving and the Jewett driving energy that would otherwise be spent on your your your call relationship on to something else
do we classify the little bit further because what way exactly does a lion get Javon from say somebody being a friend where you obviously developed where you directing energy that could otherwise be directed towards your partner but instead of being directed to a friend what does that become an emotional affair
so for people to kind of know when that line is drawn is when let's say
you got you have a couple you have partner a partner B partner a is talking to a friend outside of the marriage and partner be knows about the friend but doesn't know the extent to which they speak so partner a talks to this friend who is of their sexual preference and they talk either frequently like throughout the day they talk about things happening in their in their own marriage is like they say the other person is Mary I want to complicate it so we got couple our first couple that they're married so you have
you start treating that person is a confidant
and it involves
sharing information about your relationship that is could be useful to your partner to like partner be to know in order to help the relationship Thrive but instead of sharing it with them and saying hey let's work on this you're starting to share that with your with your friend over there and your friend starts to like oh I can probably do like I don't know do a better job or I can help you with that and starts it starts to blur the lines when you're delving that kind of information over to the friend and the friend is kind of solving it and addressing those needs and your needs are peeing fulfilled elsewhere
that's where it starts to not supposed to bleed into the other type of relationship because now your dependent depending a little bit more on this one then with partner be in front of you guys usually like unaware of this happening and becomes a secret that you're feeling like you're having to be really secretive with your partner that's an indicator that something is going on even if you're subconsciously being more secretive
but so will this apply to situations with somebody is paps venting about two problems and their relationship to somebody else that they that the pain doesn't nestled in the world yeah like let's say I like a little a little vague still because you could simply just be so much that's something that people would do with the best friend demolish a lot of private information when is it crossed that this emotional affair was it really the latest is a really just hard to tell I mean is it that the taking over the wall
of the of your father partner or is it or how would you describe it
I mean it replaces your partner all together it would replace your partner emotionally at first and then it could lead into something physical sometimes it doesn't but I mean it could it's it's basically it's not technically a precursor to the full-blown Affair but it can be and it's it isn't the same thing as like I'm venting to my friend about all the things that have been going on I'm so mad and your friends like I can help you with that how about we get together at my place we can talk about it a little bit more
I can help you I'll take you out you said that your partner doesn't take you on dates how about we go on a date would be putting energy into it to that they otherwise would be to vote in twas like some kind of problem with your spouse or partner and your partner has no idea about it maybe they have an inkling they've been noticing your little bit distant they noticed that you kinda don't really spend a whole lot of time with them that you've been out a little bit more and they don't know what to do about it so they kind of like maybe they think you know well maybe they just don't want to spend time with me but it's this feeling of they are spending that time elsewhere not communicating it too much it's like very vague if you'll secretive
it's typically secretive I would say if you're feeling like you're keeping secrets from your partner that's and it's it's involving someone else obviously whatever secrets I'm not here to judge anybody if they have some skeletons in the closet didn't want to share but it's if you feel like you're keeping secrets about a person or an online relationship to your partner that indicates a level of awareness subconsciously Maybe
where you know something is going on because if it wasn't so much a secret if it wasn't that hard for you to just say hey I'm talking to this person it's fine your partner can be there while you do it you can't Define it as in this is exactly what leads with us exactly what it looks like but you know when you see it because of the time attention to the Devotion to add something else to the Emoji level of emotional investment and I'm dedicated to that as opposed to dedicating time to fixing the relationship that you're talking about it's that and being secretive The Secret of fart is a big indicator of just of lying because in the end you have to justify the time that you've spent elsewhere to your partner and you have to make something up
do I make sense that's let's keep going on you said it was five more only become a thing when the internet started cuz obviously wasn't a thing before but it's been rising obviously cuz now we got in at all the time and easy access to everything really so that tends to happen a lot nowadays so
the digital the digital at the type of infidelity sounds like a small problem but would have communication you over the Internet or some kind of technology technology so that kind of sounds like it might be your soap form of the other types of formal that emotional infidelity you are not physical to unless you go meet them and like do the physical thing but yeah you are a interacting with them every day you're sharing your emotions and feelings with your online partner rather than with your spouse or with the other person of the year in early actually ruin their relationship with it's it's everything it's like
the definition of what people expect when they are in a relationship they want that person to be there for them and their confidence and they want that person to to love them and if that's what you're experiencing with another person that you are sexually attracted to just mean you need to act on it it still is something that's the kindest it's a cyber Affair it's just a subset of the other one though
is it possible to have an emotional affair dishes affair with somebody that you were that your nuts that is not of so say your sexual orientation so then the key to fight is is the key to finding part of it the fact that they match your sexual orientation suspect like a sexual preferences
I want to get into the lake all the technicalities of what you just said because there's technicalities obviously but generally
the Cyber Affair is a great way to end an emotional affair that's just how it ends up happening because you can talk all the time and send cute sexy messages I am assuming there is a physical attraction there a sexual attraction otherwise you wouldn't be delving so much energy into this other person if you weren't attracted to them
I said okay that makes sense
the fourth one is the one I send so it's like an opportunist type of Affair
you didn't plan on it it wasn't premeditated you didn't have a long-standing relationship with that person budding you just took the opportunity when it wasn't when I was there
like you I don't know anywhere
it's the Classic Hollywood kind of chilly where they make mistake one night and they did up with Greta yet but close in Hollywood now they end up having the kid all the time and then they end up having the boughs to family is cuz he got to create some drama for the screen
with this one it really depends on the couples communication about when I said the reason I say this and this one is particularly different is because there's no pre-established relationship with this person people in general 10 to forgive this one a little bit more because there could have been alcohol involved there could have been you know some kind of drugs or whatever it is there's always here thinking it was just a one-time thing this isn't going to happen again they're not going to do the same thing that happened that night again with this person so more than likely it really depends
both of them all all all these Affairs I mean people react in several ways but this one tends to be kind of like seeing at the moment of weakness as opposed to you've been lying to me for so long and it's like it's like a it is a betrayal but it isn't a long-standing betrayal where there's like so much repair that needs to be done and that's why you talk with alcohol drugs or something else that could potentially be the blame to be laid at the foot of instead of the person directly yeah like it's not always the case when either totally sober and they just had them blacks of judgment ya mean it's
his head can be any one of those but I think it really just does boil down to because it was a one-time thing people tend to forgive those because it's the one-time thing was a moment of weakness they're not going to do this again and I trust them and they had it's not like they were talking to this person for a really long time it was just a physical thing you know like there's a lot of reasons that people can give and I honestly don't think it's that bad of a reaction I think him and believe in second chances so yeah
the opportunist isn't a fair type but it is a little more forgivable than if you've been doing it for 3 years behind your spouse's back
the Innocence that makes sense what you're saying right like the other ones a longer-term betrayal but because of the simple fact as long as her betrayal at it would be involved with investment in the sense
it's it sounds like a could be a little bit Mochi about how someone physically feels wondering if me and me not always necessarily be easily forgiven if that sounds like the implied that they lost control themselves which
any infidelity is an emotionally cash. We went to
yeah so
feeling that kind of sense of you know your pain though and any moment could theoretically lose control themselves and get involved in the infidelity
it's substance that could be a much bigger betrayal of trust because you can't trust this person can't control themselves
I can see how someone could feel it I mean there's there's a valid point to what anyone would feel in this it's hard to say how one would feel that you can estimate that betrayal has happened the breakage of trust has occurred here so whether a person reacts like how you were saying or whether they say I can forgive this because it was a one-time thing I trust my partner still in me and if you say that if you say I can forgive this because it was a one-time thing you're saying I still trust them this was enough to break my trust in Absolution will I be annoyed will I be a little skittish will have watched him a little bit more maybe but the trust is not completely broken like what you were describing where it shook that person so hard that it happened
but now they don't trust their judgment at all which is more Cena's and inherent issue with that person's judgment as opposed to
there's something wrong with our relationship that led you to having an emotional affair or a physical Affair and taking fault in it it almost sounded like what you're describing is you having an opportunist affair
means there was absolutely nothing wrong with me and it was all you that's kind of what I kind of heard you can correct me I'm just that's what I think that explain possibility but I get people who do the other one a little bit more
I said so you said they were Primo TAXI fares what it's called like the distraction Affair when someone has an affair when they're really stressed so it's kind of like the opportunist but not really because it's in a moment of true emotional duress and vulnerability and like it can happen when they're having a really hard time coping with something like they've just lost someone may be their father their mother someone really close to them and they have an affair as a means to distract themselves from the pain and the grief that they're experiencing so it is not with the intention of taking the opportunity it is
I am so bereaved by what is happening I am not thinking straight and they jumped into something that they probably otherwise wouldn't have done
that makes sense if you just tuning in listen to have with me hear Donna shoot my wife and co-host she is a licensed marriage and family therapist associate at right now with talking about the topics of a phase she's about to tell me the last two out of seven types of Affairs this one is called the quote double life affair
this one is it's considered the riskiest one because it's really risky because it's the most difficult to maintain its when you have a double life you have two families that that's really what it means it's absolute infidelity on all levels possible it's emotional physical psychological spiritual it's a total tragedy because the other family usually has no clue that their spouse has an entirely separate life with someone else with other kids and stuff like that so that one is a double life that's a big type of Affair it will be the most risky is so I should be sitting that that could theoretically never end
I mean yeah I saw a case on TV about an Italian doctor and he had this thing happened he had I don't remember if it was three or four he was getting married to a reporter and she had a kid and then he had another wife or girlfriend or whatever in Spain with kids there and then he had another few people like he just had everyone all over the place so you would fall in number 6
separating publish it I would say opossum animal shocking of all different types of Express because
they have to maintain so much effort they would have to split themselves into those sleeping it somewhere else I have to explain what's going on to both families at the same time as to why it would never do half of the time it is quite the time commitment I will say a lot of effort goes into these
how to make sense let's talk with the last one which one he got it's just called the serial Affair so basically the like Playboy Playgirl they just constantly sleep with people even if they're married and they just kind of like the thrill of a new romance and yeah basically they don't really care about whether partner feels about this but they just keep cheating see really so that's what this last one is the continuous type of cheating it is like multiple one night stands with several people and it is not an emotional thing so that's the other type that's the last one the opportunist the opportunist Affairs work out the serial Ferris was the one night stands.
play cell phone is the how of those get started but how would you say in the face. That's how does someone go on the process of thinking that they need to start this wheel ation ship with somebody else outside of the marriage what is it just happen by I'm sure sometimes it happens by accident so what kind of process that goes Foo that they'd go for another get that so I just talked about all seven each one of those has its own way of starting typically the the physical one and the emotional one it begins with a void
of communication with their current partner so it's a void of communication it's the lack of communicating how distant they are becoming or how unhappy they are or if they have been and it hasn't been heard then they take matters into their own hands but usually it isn't usually I say this lightly it isn't with the intention to cheat a lot of times it isn't however I have seen cases not my own but like with Candy Montgomery in the case that happened in Wylie she went up to her friend's husband
and directly asked him would you want to start an affair that's actually one of the few times that I've seen this in this real real life story that that has happened your max show was it love with that foot the one with the Scarlet Witch
the one that with the one who plays Scarlet Witch I think it's Elizabeth Olsen who is a real person and committed a crime and that's what this that's what that it's a dramatization of the case where she ended up killing her friend not even because she was in love with the friend's husband she just you know it's arguable if it was self-defense or not and that's what the whole case is about but basically in that case if everything that was you know that practice it's obviously acted and I mean they weren't there but if it was the way that it was portrayed in that show documentary drama show then she blatantly asked do you want to start an affair I've been thinking do you want to be my Affair partner then I haven't seen a whole lot or hurt a whole lot
in my experience but I mean barely it going to happen I mean anything can happen you can be very explicit about it or you could be just really really really close friends with someone and start keeping secrets about that friendship to your spouse or your partner and you know it goes from there Chris is at the point that you is that the point that you could say something cuz you've mentioned that a lot of times Mimosa time they don't start these relationships off thinking that the Affairs are just looking to companionship outside outside of the relationship cuz looking for it outside of it
is that where is that the point that you would say that an affair Begins the point that you feel like you need to be secretive about it I would say
and I do want to say this before I answer that I don't want to villainize anyone who has ever cheated on anybody that is not my intention at all people do what they do simply because they do it that's it's not I don't I don't want to make it really clear that this conversation is not meant to villainize anybody for their decision-making I'm not judging anyone I really wanted to make that clear cuz I know there's a really big stigma with cheaters always once a cheater always a cheater kind of thing and the thing is that's not entirely accurate people change people make mistakes and I think it's important to afford them the ability to make amends I am a Healer I don't like to destroy people so if someone came up to me and said I was unfaithful I'm not there and just to sit there and judge them you did you didn't fair so you know you did wrong
I know how they feel about it you know I'm up by the talking to me you know I'm not here to judge absolutely anyone for the actions that they've done so answering your question
Secrets hurt someone honestly true if you're the way she said it was secret secrets so she needs the way that I interpret that is real small things don't concern considered a big secrets but when you're keeping an entire relationship whether it's emotional or physical from your spouse or partner yeah you got a problem they are no fun there is someone I agree with
so you mentioned that you mention a little bit about you know you treat people with who have both
been the victim of infidelity as well as it's as well as people commit infidelity who you say I am strong since victims themselves I did not I don't want to use the word Victim Because
it implies
I don't know I I I wouldn't say that both our victims I would say what happened is a tragedy it is a tragedy for their relationship which it sounds like was not prioritized so that's that's how I would describe it it's a tragedy not so much there's victims or their is you versus them or like me versus you kind of thing it's a tragedy that there was not enough communication established and coping mechanisms for hardships that it led to something that broke trust for both people and it has led to the consequences that that they have had that's kind of where I was saying I was just call it a tragedy
so let's imagine a situation here until someone has some of those recently come from Earth are a couple of weeks only compliment and they come into the office what's kind of first steps that you take towards
healing from that Affair like what what do you do in order to start them on the process of therapy
so depending if their first timers for therapy I would live to infidelity zenova to infidelity is for the most can survive one survived to I can't tell you that number cuz I don't remember but that's generally most people because it's the first time it has happened people tend to give Second Chances especially if they're married or if they're married but it's and children difficult for them to leave for them to leave investment I don't see each other it's the way they see it is I've
given my life to this person and even if this happened I'm not willing to end the marriage quite so easily because we have children together we have shared finances together we have house a house together car is together we are intertwined so they their first attempt is to make it work because of all the things I just said it's very helpful to think this person it's really helpful when when the person who did the cheating acknowledges that there was cheating if they are adamant that they didn't cheat and that it meant nothing then then it becomes difficult to see them so okay you're saying your scenario was I got a couple
first time first timers did never come to therapy before I was open to never been to Philippi before the new to the process and
I mean on this so they know what's going to happen they just know that something happened they just know that you know this fellow happened to them and now they need to pee on the path recovery how do you get the money so it's the first session so I kind of try to establish expectations about what therapy is and how I would be working with them so first thing I would say is I used to be a pretty models with emotionally focused therapy and it is it has a goal evidence behind it to work with specifically it's used for couples so that's how I would start I was just going to introduce myself and say you know that sometimes it's the truth sometimes things get a bit hairy in therapy but not all the time it doesn't have to be very painful I always try to add a little bit of humor or a lot of humor in my session otherwise it's just like people go in there and they're just like I'm going to get depressed the second a walk-in I definitely don't want to be something something that brings people down
rather I kind of want to help them be a beam of light they're following me look like I'm not seeing him any kind of Savior or anything but I want to give him a bit of gas but you're happy and you in a sense of service with tool that they can use to get the relationship back on track with my track with means for them
yeah so like I said I was I would do explain what DMT is a first if it's a first session I would start with talking about their negative interaction cycle so like what is what is there Dynamic right now that's got them stuck but if it's an infidelity so if they're coming in for an infidelity I need to address that first before I can address everything else like you're asking me to get kind of technical I don't want to bore the audience could you have a ton of dollars next season's area as we sticking on topic you a question here would be how do you address that infidelity in therapy
a blunt so how do I address it I'm like so I heard from wasn't so I say I'm going to be pretty blunt about this I usually if there was an infidelity it is written in the intake so I kind of know what to expect and I just talked about it's already Al's intake and I saw that there was infidelity and my here to point any fingers for any of it I might here to judge I just wanted to acknowledge is that what's bringing you in
and then he would be like yeah that brings me in and then we would go from there I'm pretty blunt
so and infidelity my why the biggest things that happens as a result of it is that breaking of that in a marriage that marital trust it was shipped it still the same trust that this person is
how do you spell monogamous couples is is faithful to you now that's that's that's basically there, then that cuz the faithful to Unfaithful. Unfaithful if they commit infidelity so given that they've broken this kind of giving it the stress of his broken or at least severely strained by this event how do you post a topic of rebuilding a trust is it something that can be truly rebuilt with an infinitely it also helps when the marriage is long so if you've been with this person for a really long time and there's an infidelity those typically survive again or any kind of late they survived that particular infidelity because
they've known that person for so long so they give more benefit of the doubt and they experience more of a
more of a patient's more patience then let's say if it's a newly wedded couple and they just got married and then their own faithful there. They're out he's sometimes they don't stay because it's so fresh and so Neil you're just like really we just got married and you're cheating on me already booked by that's just I would say How It Ends to happen but yeah the longer you've been with your spouse or your partner it does help you if you are the one that got cheated on help you get to forgiveness because of that benefit of the doubt that is inherent in those couples
but so how do you go about rebuilding that trust with that couple
with me Tuesday model so we would talk about their interactive there negative interaction Cycles like what what effect has the infidelity had on their marriage or their relationship what is happening I need to I need examples of concrete examples of what's happening so let's say in this theoretical couple there's a lot of resentment and it looks really like the the one that was cheated on his really mad and really resentful and and like once the partner that did the cheating to gravel at their feet and that's the negative interaction cycle where the one feels really guilty and wants to take it back but he doesn't have the ability to do so in a way that there
partner that was cheated on really accepts so it would go first with addressing their current negative interaction cycle helping them establish
a different type of cycle which takes several sessions it stalking through that resentment and talking about repair work and the trust that was broken it's empathic conjecture is validation it's helping both of them and I say both if they both cuz I know there's a big stigma for people who cheats now that I'm siding with people who cheated but I do do make it a point to have a neutral stance as a therapist of the professional one and working with people like that I don't want one person to feel less than the other simply because I am because it's like they did the cheating or you know what I mean so I focused really I focus really hard on the neutrality and understanding both its couples therapy you're not there just for the person that you are you here the help the couple we generate in a sentence for January for what's the harm that has been
so you must pay attention to both of them not just the age of the person that got cheated on so speak safety experience in the therapy room when they're talking to the therapist helped me is what they both want and
I mean I don't want to have one feel like they're being held in the other one is not that would be that would be a poor example of a of a session
but because it's couples before you're there for the couple not just the individual is that for both of them that you mentioned at the beginning that other common problem with relationships with couples is this communication practices
and you also mention how I help people begin if it's because of something that's lacking from the something that's lacking in the Coalition ship that's why they seek it somewhere else
these are at imagine there's probably there's probably a lot of say how you put comorbidity between those that people who have a deli Palms also tend to have communication problems
well I mean it's comorbidity is used for diagnosis so he can have bipolar and you can have depression and that's comorbidities but coming concurrently that in the relationship because they must have been
it it sounds like to an extent what you what you what you said was that the people who are happy with their relationship
don't commit infidelity is always very rarely commit infidelity is no I didn't say that it looking for something that to feel some kind of hole commit infidelity are having problems communicating and that is not to say they haven't communicated I just saying they're having problems being understood maybe the communication is not being related in a way that the other partner knows what is happening so there is a deficiency in communication and which is a symptom of of the affair because it doesn't just because you're not able to communicate doesn't mean you're going to have an affair
it's just that's the precursor for a multitude of things that could be you're not communicating and you are not a surly cheating for anyting but you're fighting all the time you you really resent each other you know it can show up in it in a lot of ways if there was just one way that it can show up that you're not talking in a way where you both understand each other that is not to give fault to the cheater like I've been saying that is not mean this is the cheaters fault that they didn't communicate well it's simply the messages that were relayed by both parties or not received
but so anus
so considering that then we just say that in a sense that if it infidelity happens in a relationship dads
both people in them have had of all the planet football people in the you know the original couple Nana said that the cheese in the mistress but people in the original couple people that have all the plane that because that lacking me that lack of communication may be the constant fighting and that and and and that
how does
good they do they both play will you would you say that we both play world and that together
I left because a lot of people want it won't like the answer I'm going to give to infidelity like of a couple's house but I've definitely okay
the person who does infidelity and chooses to continue so let's say it went from opportunist to physical and full-blown there is a series of choices that they make initially was probably not the intention but there is a series of choices that they make that is what they did and the person the other partner you know the one that has no idea this was going on but has been noticing that they've been having issues hasn't really been doing anything to change anything hasn't really addressed it or simply is unable to communicate well with their partner
there is I wouldn't want to call it fault but there is an effect that that has on the other person did the other person needs a absolutely not however they were both influencing each other and they both made decisions that led to what was going to happen whether it was an affair or whether it was something else so I don't like the word fault this relationship will is that legally binding relationship in the marriage would have a strong influence on that and you're extremely unhappy and you've tried communicating it and it's not really being heard something's going to happen something will break
so I think the common
thing that people feel when they sniff a daily that happened that really kind of need your reaction of why don't you just break up first before you do it then that's fine cuz then you're not you're not Crossing you're not Crossing that you're not crossing the streams like Ghostbusters a thing of the thing
what what what will be your answer the people who say why didn't they just put why didn't you just break up or get the boss and then go for that the horse as well so I can suck you can just drop it but theoretically you could people who can pick up a text message nowadays they spent 5 Seconds say they were no longer together
think I'll do the same with somebody else are you saying
it you're not talking about spousal relationships you're talking about the ones that are not as I'm so you admit it I'm kind of in general but obviously it's easy to do it when you don't have like a legal framework binding you together of why don't you what you response of what your response would be to beat if someone asked why didn't you just get the bow break up separate in some fashion so that no longer a couple and then just go do this now no longer the fair but it really just like a vague in a relationship with somebody else so
if it's why didn't they just got divorced what and then like why did they cheat why didn't they just got divorced there is a practical response to that so that one is a practical response divorce is money Baltimore that's like it with the most less legally bound kinds of relationships like a Coke girlfriend boyfriend
what would you be just wants to be 21 to just get one of these break up with the other person then go do the thing with somebody else
that's why I mean you were says who sing happy happy people don't Cheetos like I don't know but it's definitely having a mutual agreement that you both honor so the thing here was if there was a mutual agreement one person isn't honoring it so that there it is a valid question was I why didn't you and this relationship I want to see it could be a plethora of reasons it's I I'm cozy and that relationship and I wanted to be cozy with someone else to that I could be the simple that's the type of Affair that's the serial type if they do it several times
and then if there's a reason of I did not know how to talk to this person I was in grief like if it goes back to all the infidelities that I mentioned those are all the reasons that people can give it's a why didn't you leave them well I like them
I still care about them so that says they wanted to keep what they had also get something else as well I know it's counterintuitive well people look helpless creatures will have too much time left so last question what would you say to people who are struggling with infidelity
now I would say
there's always hope
if it's a first transgression definitely give it a second shot get the help when you need it don't wait too long while that resentment grows so much that it can divide people it can
infidelity Tsar not a reflection of a person's integrity
Fidelity's are simply a tragedy simply I say not but not a good word I'll rephrase that infidelity is our tragedy there are breakage of trust and there are betrayal that the repair work
pics way more effort and time and in general try not to do them business with you that's just that's just a joke that's just a joke well thank you so much for having so much for coming on the show
thanks for tuning in today's episode listeners if you have any questions concerns or simply want to drop a line to your house Tony shoot you can feel free to contact me for the BBS Radio website or send me an email directly to Tony at Shoe at Tony at Shoe Capital with an a. See oh thank you so much and have a great night

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