welcome to the bring intimacy back show we are intimacy is real if you desire to intimately connect with yourself your significant other children and family friends community and your higher power this show is for you that's we explore intimate topics inspiring life stories spirituality and insightful tips on strengthening relationships this show is hosted by dr. April and her co-host dr. Kelly now let's get this episode of the bring intimacy back show started because we share with you the secret power to intimacy to create a life you love or love the life you create now here's your host dr. April cell host dr. Kelly

welcome to the bring intimacy back show where it's missing is real welcome. To Kelly how are you doing I'm doing pretty fantastic. After April I could not be more excited to be here and I am not joking I know yeah yeah I view all miss our last year we talked about music and intimacy an operand how to date in the 50 and today we're actually going to talk about something that we have been trying to do there were working on it was still not the expert in it but conversations about intimacy and especially with women

yeah I'm new to this I have to say I grew up with very conservative background and that's why I Pamela Healy allows book made such a big difference in my life when I started reading it just last week didn't get to finish the whole thing but I'm telling you it just reminded me of where I come from the importance of friendships with women and most of all that safe Safe Haven Shirley yes awesome yes so by any chance can do you mind introducing now gas because I know you had a college history with the gas right yes absolutely and I would love to introduce Our Guest as soon as possible like right now this is Pamela Haiti allow she is the wife of rad loud she is an author she's a speaker she's an editor she's a friend she's a mother of three young women and here is our gas Pamela Haven allow welcome

well hello dr. April and dr. Kelly I'm between two doctors should I be nervous if she says no I am so pleased you know this Pam I have not seen you since your wedding day and it's been so long so much has happened in the we won't say how many years but is 33 decades and reading your book and I'm just going to say this right now reading your book just simply reminded me of when we had coffee together when we worked at the same restaurant we made a fresh pot at the end of the night and we had coffee together so I made coffee that's how I'm going to talk about this dr. April what what does it mean to will springboard off of this what does it mean that intimacy is real we saved

is he back where intimacy is real

so what that means is being authentic yes and so when we talk about intimacy we talked about it being authentic and vulnerable being open to share you know I'm also being able for me it's also being able to actually hear the other person yes yes and that's what body mind spirit and so so when I say intimacy as well is that we're not going back we're not being fake and we're talking about real life stuff and being open and vulnerable

in this book that Pam is written about how to be a safe haven for women Pam come on in about what it is to be a safe haven what is it to be a safe haven for women well first of all I just want to tell you both that I think you're being very Courageous by even talking about the word intimacy because it's been it's been Associated only with sex and I think that that is you know of course sex is intimate but are the what. April just said this ability to be authentic and vulnerable and actually filter catchphrases today because often people are like well if you're not authentic invulnerable I don't want to know you but what what I mean by a safe haven a safe haven and obviously doesn't mean that you're protecting someone from everything bad that could ever happen because that's not reality but a safe haven I see isn't is the atmosphere

person brings to another human being and that atmosphere is humble

write that atmosphere is available that they're saying they're accessible it's an accessible atmosphere and that atmosphere says I'm going to stay here for the Long Haul

you know so a safe haven just maybe it is maybe you're just in a relationship with someone just for a short. Of time and that say it has to last forever that would feel like a ball and chain but can we meet when I think when I envisioned this book many in about probably seven years ago now I remember thinking how it was certain women and long in my life who were safe havens for me and you probably could think of that to what was it about them and what's the opposite of being a humble person right only being about yourself only talking about yourself a safe haven allows for both both listening and speaking

so I would start with that because there's so much more to say about that I am I do come from a Christian perspective so I believe that Jesus is actually models for us a safe haven with his disciples he spent a lot of one-on-one time with them so

that's what I would say about that yet so I'm just curious back in college when you guys were meeting for the first time I'm Kayla were you always this deep

that's so funny yes unfortunately with given that when I was even a young child I always want I'm so curious right you know like I have to know why things happen and I want it always I have to be honest and this is what made our relationship so good Kelly we wanted to know each other yeah

really there was that that that need to be known and we weren't afraid of that right I mean we we weren't pretentious oh yes I would answer that I probably always have sought after that and if you re part of my book you might know why but I will tell you that I teach college students and I have for the last new 25 years and that longing has multiplied has increased significantly for younger women in particular the beginning of your bookie dude talk about how I guess you guys had a chat to Jamie in the sense of humor and then how you really didn't have

anyone really have an intimate conversation how do you talk intimately about tragedy right I mean think about it when you hear about who someone's you feel sad for them but you think anything I say is going to sound trite or at can't make it better and yet there was sometimes our that Ivory I remember experience and I remember those days right after Breds brother and fiance were killed that everyone tiptoed around me at first

and my mother-in-law who was the one who lost her son she was broken so I I couldn't I couldn't go to her right I mean suddenly who she was at Safe Haven for me I needed to become that for her which is happens all the time in life but yes you're right I mean how how we talk intimately and during our tragedies really makes a difference in how we heal

you know and how we move forward so you know if I remember very clearly that the first time someone was able just to sit with me

and not say anything and just be present with me maybe wipe tears flowed or maybe while I just needed to talk about something that wasn't so deep that was when I was able to start feeling like someone was a safe haven for me and tragedy and read some of his books he talked about in the wounded healer the ministry of presents and how he would go and he would be with people in the hospital and he would just sit and listen you know you didn't know this when we met and we were becoming friends yeah I had just lost my twin brother just

one year before I went to Liberty and I was just down shut down I was on using music to think I'm uses do not think and I didn't even know what to do so but just a minister presents and I love the cover of your book with the two cups of coffee because that's what we did we were both young I mean I must have been 18 or 19 and would sit across from one another and you get to communicate and how rare it is for people to sit across from one another and willing and so I also liked your chapter 8 where you had conversations about sex and get a complete that but you're you are correct people have a hard time talking about when they assume the intimacy is sexual intimacy and there's so many dimensions of it but today I would like to talk about sexual intimacy and how you open that conversation with these young women and talk about sex and make it a safe place

well let's go back even from what we said the beginning Kelly I mean think about where we how we grew up and went to that we went to a very conservative University we're not only could you not talk about it but if you were caught doing it you were expelled I mean I'm just saying they want sex legal yeah there's a lot of legalism and shame that is around especially for people who come from any religious background and so that is something that even for me I was like how do I how do we talked about this and then God Gave Me 3 daughters right and it's like how do I talk to them about this without being that legalistic without making it shameful event at the add another layer on top of being able to have conversations about sex is developed at these incredible relationships with women as they were my students and then would you know become my friends right well they're in their thirties and forties now

and they would tell me stories that they felt like there was no one who would talk to them about that their sexuality like like

what if they didn't wait till they got married let me think about that again I'm coming back from this very conservative perspective and you know I think that God did design sex between aunt for a marriage relationship between a man and woman in the world we're living in is setting that on the table and saying is that is that all this is for and we need to be part of that conversation we've got to be part of it so I I think I opened the door by writing this chapter but before I wrote the chapter I did a lot of interviewing and talking to William conversations like this I mean we use the word interview but I left I asked questions and I said why why is there what's going on with this topic especially about sexuality and one of the one of the young women said

you know she said I have been living with my boyfriend and I wanted to talk to a woman at my work about it so she was like you know probably someone who's 10 years older and she said as soon as I brought up the subject that I want I want to talk to her about something the woman turned to her and said if you didn't already make the mistake of living with your boyfriend we wouldn't be having this conversation and what does that do the intimacy yes exactly that story I heard in different Renditions over and over and then when you have women who are struggling and they want that longing that the closeness with another woman and they admit to be honest with you though sometimes think it's like a homosexual relationship they get confused there's no one to talk to because if they bring it up Shane

if you bring it up you're out I have again no of people who've been asked to leave churches and asked to leave jobs because they might be open about something they're just wondering about and so that's in a sense that's why he's five patterns are so important when we just cuz you need these other patterns to talk about sex and I was just about to say that even though we just met some people who may even have premarital sex but even those people who are saved himself and then let's say they going to marry they many times had one in a conversation about intimacy and sex prior to marriage because now there's shop there some things just doesn't feel like me this is what I hear and counseling of course yeah and so even if we can have a conversation even before someone has sex is really important and not to just focus

so much on sex but the focus also and more importantly on intimacy the connection what that needs to and I think it's really great to have older women mentoring younger women in conversation about intimacy I like you guys want to talk talk to you guys a little bit before we going to break about a charity that we have that's actually kind of the same thing that's mostly about intimacy but it said mentoring I will highlighting freely give incorporation nonprofit for empowering women and one of the things they do is they serve children and young adults and how to make positive differences in the community such as entrepreneur community service and ask one of their people lighting leaders and so if anyone's thinking of donating that's a great thing to say Empower young women Mind Body Spirit and so when we're going to take a short break or when we come

we're going to talk about those by patterns that is in your book on how to make a safe haven for other women and when we talked about intimacy will be back in your mouth are you going to take a vacation in Paradise vacation to rekindle the prussians I vacation without the kids a vacation where you can learn how to communicate you and your partner actually hear each other and game inside if so vacation counseling is your next vacation April Brown has created vacation Counseling in Southwest Florida has a perfect option for you and your partner our Retreat are one couple at a time we have a variety of packages available to choose from including virtual Couples Retreat if you and your partner interested in the vacation counseling please visit us at vacation counseling.com for more information on pricing and packages also follow us on Instagram and Facebook

to keep track of the latest news stories activities or coupons on vacation counseling and dr. April's other services we encourage you to sign up to receive a monthly newsletter called into my connections at dr. April brown.com remember if you and your partner are struggling with communication and intimacy and you all are looking for a retreat to connect vacation counseling can be vacation in Southwest Florida

welcome back to The Bernie Mac Show where intimacy is real and they would dr. Kelly you're talking with Pamela on how to have safe haven conversation about intimacy he has a book called A Friend In Me How to be safe haven for other women and still she's going to teach others whatever you thought I hadn't been sitting here like I want to know what it is 5 Titans and how they relate to intimacy

that's really the key right cuz otherwise what's the point of having it it's kind of interesting to think about that getting to the other side of pain and suffering is actually one of the patterns I know that sounds kind of like no way that's going to start there but here's the video and I bet you you ladies know this so much more than I do but when we get to the other side of our pain relief right and so if we stay in pain right if we just we never deal with our stuff if we are never really honest about our you know whether it's trauma or whether it's just been hurt by someone

when when we are a safe haven for someone else we won't be a safe haven for them we will be a storm right because we usually quits not refined but so how that pattern is is a good thing is that if you do get to the other side of your pain and suffering its gold because then you get to say to somebody

it's not like oh I've been there cuz none of us want to hear that right that's not very comforting but what you are able to do is just have a Stillness about you and then you can say I actually can tell you my story so so this idea that that's my first pattern is getting to the other side of suffering and I think ladies honestly we've got an allow him to tell those kinds of stories

You Know Me Maybe when Kelly and I were young maybe we just talked freely cuz we didn't we didn't care what we were going to the image we were going to project right well as we get older we care so much about our image that were like well I don't want anyone to know that I had this tragedy or that I was married once before or that I had six boyfriend or whatever but if you're going back to intimate yeah so I think that's my first the first time and I don't know what do you think about that do you know this weekend is sense of scripture it was talking about and when you're being soon

it's sometimes painful but that's what we need to do to shopping ourselves and kind of like you said going through pain to Healing yes and I think that that's really where so many of Art and ice when I say younger women I mean I want to be honest like I think somebody can be 10 years ahead of us but they need us too so let's not you know right I mean all ages of women in menopause and all the other stuff that's a yes right and then the second the second pattern is the pattern of comfort and the way that that relates to intimacy is on when I was I shared my book I write about how we had a family tragedy when I was 14 I so I would go to high school every day and I was so I was such a strong-willed teenager that I would

sit listening to the teacher take notes with tears coming out of my eyes right because I didn't want anybody to feel I wanted to go to school and do this when people with my friends with tried to comfort me I push them away because they didn't really they didn't really understand yet what I was going through but I needed Comfort I needed somebody to be able to wreck it to witness what I was going through so what I guess my point is is in Safe Haven who has that practice of comforting is present but doesn't smother

Comfort Comfort is is very wise but there's a way to do it right I mean it's and here's the other thing I would say sometimes I need calm and soothing words to comfort me and call me down but you know what ladies I sometimes want more to comfort me or those strong courageous words that say you are not done yet rise up

a friend right yes exactly that sometimes is more comforting to me I need that words of Courage more than I need all I'm so sorry that happened to you

there's a there's a there's a fine distinction there of comfort it reminded me of that country song that says get up and do your makeup like stand up and do your makeup and I can't remember it but it was like I guess that's comfort means you're looking but you're not smothering but your present and then the third one's understanding and I think understanding you know you can look at you might think well that sounds like everything we've been talking about no no no it has a very interesting new its discerning

what to say and Discerning what to encourage someone to do you know understanding really is a Discerning that

you know

a lot of us don't want truth

you know what I'm so if you think about it when I witness my but the ship that has taken place in the college students that I teach they used to tell each other the truth will they no longer do that to save face they might tell me the truth but they will not tell the truth to their peers and I know you're like you're all tilting your head so how we have to just keep it on the presents you know social media and insta and all that looks so for example when someone when someone who is younger than me might come in and tell me something I'm going to use an example of one of my students who didn't show up for class didn't turn in assignment and you think to yourself what is this have to do with being a safe haven will everything because I know that she's in my presence lying to me

and I instead of I can tell you're lying to me I don't talk like that to her I wait until I can ask certain questions and discern and it's amazing how a few minutes later I get an email with the truth so they're that idea of being understanding is waiting until you you ask the right questions until you get to the truth and then the fourth one is full forgiveness and I think obviously this is Catherine Lee. So it could be probably is but that pattern

I tell you I mean think about all the women in your life right now and some of it all of the regrettes they have okay

is it our job to remind people of their mistakes

but we do it in our minds are like well if she hadn't done that you know she'd be so much happier today or whatever well the idea of full forgiveness is is it's a Biblical principle all religions actually practiced full forgiveness I have seen in relationships with other women that if somebody point out where they missteps along the way they don't open up to them that shuts down intimacy

and when weird would we practice for forgiveness and our female relationships it really translate into our romantic relationships because then were able to literally translate that into a relationship with with the person we in a deeply loved

but full forgiveness is not something that I have seen really acted out a hundred percent in our women's and women's lives so it's even true people listening right now where to physically show forgiveness to someone right physically the way you hold your body the way you make eye contact with someone the way you the way you engage them

letting the past go

it changes one person's life

we forgive or not you forgive not only for the person but for yourself it nothing can change a person's countenance greater than unforgiveness and bitterness and resentment it will change it does not matter what you put on your face what product if you do not forgive somebody and you do not relinquish that it will change your entire continent do you give that person so that you can be free as well and it have a more intimate relationship sometimes I think Pam and speaking of this as well as dr. April I think it's kind of humbling to tell somebody that they heard us

that's good you hurt me why don't we say to somebody that they've heard us is that connected to Pride what do you think I mean yes and we don't really want to open up to say I'm her yeah but just cuz you say I'm going to be okay and learn how to be okay with pain and kind of like you were saying with your first one that we have to go through the pain and I think so many people don't realize that but you have to go through the pain to get to the other sounds like that by step program I need to get involved him I'm sure they have those out there you said how do you tell someone that they first Apert you like it's about herbal things sometimes I will get hurt I'm more sensitive than people think I meant do mask it with humor in at my feelings get hurt and I realize it's

ejective it's really that they hurt my feelings but I don't want to tell them interesting that you bring that up because the University of Southern California to the Southern California University system has now made a class that students have to take on friendship for one semester because I know you're shocked right because there's there's so much isolation right now and an inability to move beyond the stages of friendship right cuz the stages are you initiate right you intensify you engaged and you you experiment well when you ask people about that those stages of relationship they will tell you that they are so afraid of being used they're afraid of giving more than them take get back so so we bring you to Sage can I let someone know that my feelings have been hurt your all the way you know you're down at this

other stage when the rest of the world is still at the stage of initiating is that makes that you know so better all of a sudden

it's actually a lack there's a great lack in people having Intimate Relationships so that's why you're the title of your program is very intriguing to me because I don't think that means I think we'd go straight for the romance straight for the one partner and yet all the other foundational pieces of intimacy we need are we haven't taken the time to build into our lives so to tell someone they've hurt me that means I'm really going to trust you and we're going to and I'm hoping you're going to be with me for the Long Haul

I don't know what do you think I think that just been kind of convicted me and my spirit because I'm serious because it's like I have to go beyond the pay night when my twin brother died and I was 16 I never even cried at his funeral and I never even trusted many people didn't even know that I had it when it was so deep and then I started to be understanding of what that loss was and I realized I do have closer friendships with people that I do trust and it doesn't boil down to that so how can we be a person that someone can trust

well and I think that's V pattern which is compassion and you know the ability the skill I mean that that compassionate mean to suffer with

right it's not just sympathy it's suffering with someone and so you just you just spoke it out you said that you know those people who wear your true friend suffered with you I think compassion is the glue that helps us do all the other patterns before hit

you know go ahead

like I said that Definition of compassionate never heard of that before to suffer with yeah I mean you Just Dropped a Bomb there it's actually from the Latin hits from the Latin meaning Patty and come which means to suffer with so that's where it comes from I didn't I didn't just by myself but I was in the he went to the garden and he he took 3 with him he told some of the disciples stay here and then he took he said Peter James and John please you think it shows three

well I don't think we can handle more than that to be intimate with I think that's the other lie that's been told to our culture that we need to be we can't you can't handle being intimate with 10 people that's a lot that's a lot and it's not going to you're going to be different people may be to those 10 but in terms of the intimacy that Jesus had with those three he entrusted his deepest part of himself to those three he did that's a that's a great model for sure you know but

I have seen where where when women take the initiative to literally ask people step out and say I want you as part of my inner circle you know and act on that I believe that they lead they lead more confident lives

you know and maybe it's not just about you to maybe you're going to the premise of the book is really are you reaching out to two other women and saying can I you know what can I do for you maybe it's not always social exchange theory right right I believe as Christians that we that is part of the Gospel to not always want something in return

and that that only can happen you know if you're being filled up by by God but that I think that is something that I really tight when I wrote this book I hoped for a movement for for women like you and I and anyone else listening to reach out and to say I've seen you can we meet for coffee can we meet at a bar and have a drink I just want to know how you're doing an older women what holes are fats and younger women about intimacy I mean I know some other women think I don't know the language today's language

you know our first date that if they talk with the younger women what is that that's a great question in the first thing that I've heard from from women who were like over a certain age is that they don't think they're wanted or needed

what did you say nope there they don't really see themselves as having something to offer and I think that's another lie of course every person on planet Earth II me has something to offer

and that is that is where that came from I don't know but maybe it's popular culture you know we we honor Fame and Youth

but that's one thing that holds people back but the other is to be completely honest is this lack of one of the patterns which is a lack of understanding boy are we married to what we think is right

we just think of life should look a certain way and we will not tolerate if anyone walks a different path and so when you think that it comes out in your body language right it comes out so that's the there's two different things going on there one is someone doesn't feel like they're confident enough another is they just they don't think that people should do anything but what is right all the time well that's not reality in God did designs are things but but we live in a fallen world and mistakes I like to see that part of it is you know we have God's perfect will like you would said that scripturally it is marriage is designed for diet from God between man and a woman who hates divorce why cuz he hates divorce people know because she knows of the deep pain that it causes and if we could just open up those doors that

people can

trust one another but the question that I have is how can women reframe how they see one another because we know of catty women we know of women that backstab we know of someone who has been hurt because they trusted her best friend who then slept with their partner like how can we have left them if they go through their relationship Journey are you talking like women like our peers or we talkin in a mentoring relationship or we just like how would you like I think both I think we could look at it as like cuz you know what I know a lot of people think I have a ton of friends and I do but here locally I have something and I have I get lonely here sometimes and I think I'd like to have some closer friends you know there is that

there's that what oh you're pushing me what am I that what are they going to need from me like okay thank you for saying that cuz that's it that's exactly what it is cuz I don't I want to be Kelly I don't want to be doctor Kelly to my friends okay so so very authentic and very honest so you pushed me for honest I did push you so I'm can I be my true Pam Lau self right now

my when my oldest daughter was 14 I could not look at her without becoming physically ill and upset because I was 14 when my mom left our family so I say this to say I needed some help because I could not imagine bright but I thought who on Earth am I going to talk to you about this so I put myself in Captain I found a therapist and I start talk but it wasn't enough I needed to talk to a woman who experienced exactly what I did so that I could so I pray

I asked God I said I'm looking this is what I'm looking for I was so specific I want someone who has the same life I have they teach and they write like they speak you in that way I want someone with a mom and I want someone who was who was abandoned by her own mother know that's a lot to ask for would you believe three weeks later it happened I was sitting in a group somewhere I think it was like a baby shower or something and somebody mentioned someone else she said something and I was like what that happened to her

and I went back I emailed the woman and I said would you be willing to meet with me and talk to me about what these things and she did I tell you that story to say we have to name our needs as women we have to name our needs we're not good at that we think why isn't someone pursuing me we want to be pursued but that's

Edwards and so named are nice and then what I thought this is my true honest self I always write it down and I pray and I say God this is what I need and I get specific specifically and then I keep my ears and eyes open and I'm willing to do the initiating and I know that that could be a personality trait right but here's the 4th thing I do

there's nothing more that I despise and when someone says let's get together

and then we don't do it right or we just say to each other so what I do on the end of the week is I open up my Google Calendar and I look ahead over the next couple weeks and I say so where where is my connection with women like where is that and if it's not on there I send some emails or I send a couple texts but I put it on the calendar and I protect it now does that mean it's the same person there are some women that I do like a regular I will do a lot of cuz of the work I do I had a lot of people who like there's like prayer only that we do okay and I believe ladies with women who are in any leadership position they need that kind of caring in their lives but it's on the calendar every week but then when there's that social just been named Kelly what you're saying like Okay I just want to I just want to sit in like talk you know I don't want to be your therapist

I don't want to just listen to you for an hour I want to have a conversation

you pray you ask God to show you who that is and you seek them out and get them on your calendar

yeah and you know that's the richness of life Wow thank you so much and that's like you know if you put it out there and of course the atmosphere and God will provide it to get back we will take questions from the audience

if you are listening to this commercial you have a pulse if you have a pulse you have stress you may need a therapist how do you find a therapist

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Welcome back to the bring intimacy shed where in Tennessee is real I'm penley just dropped another ball and that's when she said as women we have to name our niece and this isn't a discussion about Intimacy in conversation with other women that is just amazing this is important in fact I am when I look at my screen right now my gallery view on sandwich between pre-approval and Pam and both of you are in my life because of conversations that I've had and Soto's intimate conversations and those are the same thing to Pam and I want to mention this I think that God also not well I don't think we know that God knows our needs not everybody knows everybody would identify even with Jesus as a savior he may be as a man that walked the Earth is a historical figure but he's changed our lives my personal relationship with Jesus is

besan intimacy and that is what gravitated me to you Pam and our friendship because of your love for him and he knew that we both had experienced a fan in it for my mother-in-law and we didn't even talk about that it's three decades further with or three decades past that and we had those conversations and grew a friendship and now so some of the kids that were planted in our life so we can look around and say you know what who is it that we met from this. Of our life that we gravitated to they were important to us who liked was fun to be around and we can also reach out to them for me to reach out you spoke earlier about the Google Google Calendar number to reach out to a few of those people and you've spoken into my life also want to let people know what that we do have a call in number which is one 888-627-6008 if you have any questions for dr. April myself and our

author Pam LOL

right

I think we just got a question and then I'll ride in this is from Susan who is 32 and she's stating that she

just had a miscarriage

and a couple of months ago and they're thinking about starting again to try to have a baby however she does not know how to talk with other women about it because of

the pain of the miscarriage but also some people may think they should you not try that again of having another child

so Susan first I just want is this for me or is this for you ladies I feel deeply compassionate for you because it's to lose a pregnancy is it really is more difficult than we know because it's something that you do want by yourself it's private I have had a couple miscarriages so I do understand that but the question you asked is make me cry understand to do talk to somebody because you're afraid of what they might say you know in the really be getting Bieber beginning of the show we talked about humility and being humble and I got to tell you I've never I've never regretted sharing my pain with the right person

never regretted that

but I have felt the foolish feeling of when I shared it with the wrong person

so I would say

pray and ask God if and if there's someone who is either around you close by like geographically but you could connect with and who still has also suffered a miscarriage and just share that with them and I would also really challenged you to know that nobody can take from you your own feelings and pain for that in other words if you don't want to share that right away I think that that's sacred when you get to choose the timing of that for sure but the but the third thing I would say is what's wonderful about sharing is you can't believe that there's somebody else out there who is who is in pain for someone to tell them that that happened to them too and so I would encourage you to speak that person

no one can tell you if you can try or not

that is your decision

but for your own mental and emotional well-being when you share it it really does rich and richer life and bring healing to you

thank you ladies think I have I have another Twilight but I think about that is that God opens the womb

yeah I mean he he opens the woman and closes the womb I mean ask Sarah Wright

so in and don't let I would like to say to Susan don't let those words be like velcro and stick to you just just please release it the enemy of loves to get us to recall things that should have never been said to begin with so released that I do have a question from Debbie who said she number of years ago trusted Christian woman in her church with her same-sex attraction the woman prayed with her once and they never spoke of it since

and that question is for you Pam from Faith Community faith based perspective how would you well first of all I am so sorry and I have heard that story so many times and I don't know what the nature of the prayer was so I don't have any idea what this woman said to you but I just I just actually it actually brings tears to me because what I want to say to you is good for you for praying with someone then I don't know how long ago that was but I really encourage you to

ask God for other safe people to talk with about this and then I also want to say do not let the Enemy Bring shame into your mind and heart I mean literally say no to that I don't know what God's purposes and plans for our for your life you say that you come from a faith-based background you hold onto your face are our sexuality is not our identity

our identity comes from being created in the image of God and God created you just exactly the way you are and how you need to move forward with something like this is to not stop until you find Community or your supported where you're known where you're protected for your character and your integrity and then they do exist I I can guarantee they do exist but it's but it's not the obvious ones you know and and again sometimes I was going to apologize for the church because she has not done a good job of talking about sexuality that that we believe is does is not right for people who followed Jesus we've not done a good job of being able to say this is not your whole identity

and let's talk about this so I would also like to say to you

but like what Kelly just said she's going to she's going to open up her Google Calendar I really challenged you to open up your Google calendar and find some new people to talk with about that again and please don't abandon prayer that's the lord of the universe listening to you not a human being

and did this even finish up what you're saying which is great what you're saying the church is by men and women of course yeah and it's not God's oh you make me feel like you're being judged by your church don't you think that's how God is judging you because that's men and women including myself we're all Sinners and the traffic like God is

so yes definitely wow that was pretty deep well you can go

yes yes yeah thank you so much for being on the show I mean by land and so much and the five steps of pain Comfort understanding forgiveness and compassion which is suffering with others being right along with others how that just brings back into it by you no yes yes and people who out there please think about getting your book I think that's really yes

call the friend in me how to be a safe haven for other women although I will tell you I wish that I could write the next one for men like

I don't know if a woman should write about it with your husband I really am so grateful to see both of you today I'm here and I really appreciate what you're doing to communicate with the world so if I listen to contact with you so you can go to my Instagram page which is Pamela hazy Lau I also have a website Pamela loud, so that's just Pamela. Comm so Pamela Lau I try to send out some encouraging words about once a month if you sign up for a newsletter but I also and welcome open to emails because I love to communicate with my readers and so my email address is Pamela ATL at gmail.com

I listen to I went to your website and I listen to the one with dr. Sarah I bleed when you talked about it was in February and it was from Brokenness to blood Myst and I really enjoyed that I I just never heard of dr. Sarah I couldn't remember her last name you can bet your podcast right up on my audible I think I listen to it on my podcast is something I really recommend because when you get more of your podcast tell us about that go on to Apple iTunes or to audible or Spotify and type in real life with Pamela Lau right and I'd love to have more listeners were trying to get more because I have my next few books they're telling me that you know got to get more listeners so we can put more books

they're so help me out do you have an iPhone I do join Clubhouse will do a clubhouse together I'll I'll email you about it but we're having one tomorrow at 7:30 if you get your app today you have to be invited though but I can invite her plan by the way I didn't know that I yes yes I have someone what do you do with it it's you oh my goodness. Okay it's kind of like LinkedIn and Facebook live but it's all audio and it's like amazing and you can you create a room and it's audio so like you see we get to see one another which I really love but it would all be audio so tomorrow at 7:30 a m Eastern Standard time we are going into a club house and we're talking about intimacy again and then when you meet different people authors

pastors wives mothers friends but you invite everyone or someone else invites everyone you have to get invited in first to join and then you get to join the difference in theirs night on Body Mind and Spirit mental health Wellness intimacy like next week we have no idea I don't know Ashley Bernardi of nerdy media but she's coming finding your voice so good that's a great one and then the end of March we have Linda devillers and I found her book in a bookstore and it was on aphrodisiac food yes wow so but the thing is is that you may find authors and different people and singers but you know what that is one way that you can grow up but we know that it is God that gives the increase and weep cast your bread on the water it will come back to us and I have no doubt Pam that your ministry through your writing is going to continue to grow

thank you Kelly I mean that I never seen it so awesome thank you again for being in the show and we'll look forward to you and you're welcome anytime we look forward to any more intimate conversations with you yes definitely so I'm like the same we have a couple of shows coming up and the shows we have an April we have to the funny drink my he's talking about humor and Healthcare and then we have one of my all-time favorite smell and vocal a sex therapist yes and don't forget to social media we're on LinkedIn Instagram YouTube Twitter Tick Tock Apple podcast etc etc.

and if you like to review a ratings just going to iTunes and review them and if you'd like to support us monetarily week you can join our new patreon yes that's cuz we're now having like a membership and it's only $5 to join and it's patreon / BB podcast and with need about that as we do Post shows and that means it's not like a blooper reel bringing intimacy back is where intimacy is real and that's when we get to talk Off Script a little bit not that we're on a script where extemporaneous dig a little bit deeper in what that really meant what did you think or feel or you know that it just had a little bit more time those intimate conversations with dr. April and intelligence an explanation Clubhouse and how I always think about it it's like a conference with all these different rooms you can go into

so we're going to be live on every Friday morning at 7:30 a.m. it's only for an hour that we care and we can talk about waking out intimacy and relationships and I definitely will please do and we could do a room together yeah yeah I'd be great thank you guys so much and we'll see you guys next week