welcome to the bring intimacy back show we are intimacy is real if you desire to intimately connected with your self your significant other children and family friends community and your higher power this show is for you. We explore intimate topics inspiring life story beer Tuality and insightful tips on strengthening relationships this show is hosted by dr. April and Raquel knows dr. Kelly now let's get this episode of the bringing intimacy back show started because we share with you the secret power to intimacy to create the life you love or love the life you create now here's your host dr. April Kelly show where intimacy is Neil welcome today yes I want to let you guys know the Doctor Kelley on she's so sorry that you can't be here but she's doing her special work on where she specializes in helping Native Americans and the struggles they have

she also covered a lot to me last week if you notice I didn't talk much because I was a little sick but she'll be back with us next week anyway so we start out today cell today I want to let you guys know it's a topic that many couples asked me about something that we all deal with it if you guys know AJ locked with intimacy and dealt with many times people like in the sense of couples if sometimes it's something when they feel like they're partner is struggling with a variety of stuff sometimes people like me by individuals when it comes to sex a sex addiction I shouldn't be a problem and of course it is and it is also an intimacy problem so today's topic sexual addiction isn't it must be a problem I have a fantastic yes I'm going to talk to you about that's going to come on and give us a lot of information

but before I get started I want to let my audience know that you know I'm about to release my second ego trippin so excited about as she know the first one is improving self spirit in the house and it's on Amazon which is great and so now I have another ebook because us we go we're going to go deeper and deeper than this one is about self intimacy it's about you so please check those things out I've now we're in July 1st and as you know every month we focus on a charity and the charity that were focusing on this month it's called the American art therapy and they heal people too hard I love art install definitely go ahead and check them out they have access to a variety of our therapist and they provide education for people going inside their people also Therapy Center

that's for people who are struggling so business members. Art therapy. Org donate now let me talk to you about our first dinner today I'll get Matthew Winger welcome Matthew specializes in addiction to pornography and sexual behavior he's worked with of course you know non-christians and Christians cuz it's you know is that he's actually The Clinical Director at a sexual addiction treatment center and it's called Begin Again Institute and the great thing about them as there are I'm working on introducing and utilizing a new focus called trauma-induced sex addiction

welcome Matthew thank you yes I'm so the first thing that we really talked about in this show cuz it's called bring an intimacy back she is intimacy so as I get to know you and we talked about it what is your definition of intimacy intimacy is vulnerability + authenticity which

is the definition that that most of our clients which are men really struggle with both being vulnerable about their own emotions and their own fears that even their needs and then authenticity of the the ability to be yourself in the present and that moment and we believe that vulnerability + authenticity brings emotional intimacy that terminology the main one that were talking about today is sexual addiction and many times individuals have no there like do I have a sexual addiction do I not

what is your definition of that as we get started

sure so there's obviously a lot of definitions out there of sexual addiction I like to keep it simple so if you're struggling with sex or sexual behavior such as pornography or compulsive masturbation or something like that I'm their kind of three things to look for right so is there compulsivity so do I feel like I need to do it I'm or do I find myself wanting to do it and circumstances were otherwise wouldn't or am I going out of my way to do it when I otherwise wouldn't right so do I have a level of compulsivity where I feel like I need to the second pieces is it escalated in my life do I feel like I need to do more time to not get the same result

so what are used to spend 30 minutes doing this and I'm spending three hours I used to be like once I once a week saying now it's many days a week or every day or multiple times a day was it escalating and then the third pieces is it continuing in spite of felt consequence so I'm starting to perceive that there are some negative effects to my compulsive and escalating sexual behaviors

but despite those consequences I I don't care I can't stop so those three areas are wants to kind of hone in on and see why was this actually maybe an addiction for me or or someone close to me yeah yeah I wanted to do it it's an addiction vs. you need to do it if you need to do it it's an addiction vs. you want to do it sure it's kind of a it's kind of both and right so we believe that sex addiction arises to regulate and unregulated nervous system the stress anxiety fear fighter flight or freeze write those kind of survival responses in order to regular like those responses sexual addiction as a resident people to help them cope

with those extreme responses in the end those dramatic responses which I'm sure we'll talk about so

you know I forgot I forgot your question just give it to you over time

all right right right okay so all of those regulatory type behaviors and bring it to her behaviors can be almost anything like eating pizza or going on a bike ride or whatever but where you at or behaviors are things to help us get back to level and all addictions originally started out as a regulatory behaviors things that we just did to try to feel safe to try this feel okay but it's an addiction wear when it becomes something that I know I need now it moved from a want into a knee so the behavior used to be something that I wanted to do now I need to do when I feel safe to feel normal to feel level which is a great thing for people to understand that sometimes people don't understand how a natural function to be an addiction you know he is eating and all that kind of stuff yeah sure there's all sorts of misconceptions around around sexual addiction wear

what's what's wrong with sex do you know I mean it's something people should do it and they should do a lot of it if they want to and I'm why not you know but that's really not what we're dealing with okay I know you mentioned in your answers a few times the word we so can you explain to our audience three who do you represent so they can the Wii represents Begin Again Institute in our Christian program that we have underneath Begin Again is to Boulder recovery so like you said I'm the Clinical Director so I run the program and I supervise all the the therapist we were founded by dr. Michael Barta the author of tensa

so yes when I say we I say us as a treatment program as an organization this is how we engage with sexual addiction so definition you talked about is escalating behaviors and so what exactly does that mean in the sense of

I'm watching for now you know 5 minutes on a we can versus now every day and at work and all that kind of stuff yeah yeah escalation just really means I have to do more of the behavior to get the desired chemical response emotional response that I'm looking for one of the misconceptions of sexual addiction is that people think that that sex addicts are addicted to the act of ejaculation or sex but that but the reality is there a dicted to dopamine dopamine released within the brain so that there will be other pleasure chemical if you want to call it that I'm in DOS behaviors early on in their childhood development they realize that those behaviors could bring that pleasure chemical and it could calm them down I could bring them peace to bring them felt safety could bring them a release of them

and in and it was working for them now it's no longer working for them it's escalated to the point where I need to do this all of the time to get that same essentially schitt and then Eazy-E metaphor for this is drug addiction you have to use more and more and higher concentration on substance to get the same effect if it works the exact same way yeah yeah I just thinking of myself it'd be interesting if the DSM-5 which is what we use of clinicians headed as addiction to dopamine would more people come out and be honest with their addiction vs. you know saying I'm addicted to drugs and addicted to sex which is like even you know people don't want to write this stigma there and unfortunately and you know there are a lot of Bad actors out there that have utilized sex addiction as a track like a way out

reminder responsibility for their behavior high-profile people you know the in their culture and so sex diction has in some ways accidentally become kind of a joke but there are millions of people men and women that struggle with this across our world that are have to utilize tremendous courage to go and get help around because of that stigma you know I often say you stand up in a room of people and you say your you know for six months sober from alcohol you're going to get a round of applause you stand up and say you're six months sober from sex addiction from you in like yeah consequences you know that you felt you use the word felt consequences that are going on in

lives around addiction that they don't really feel right away right the distance from their family the numbness that they have to their emotions the lack of emotional Intimacy in their relationships and their marriages on their inability to do their best work at in their career some of these things they don't realize when they're in the middle of addiction but I felt consequences when it arises level my awareness and it's a big deal like like my wife come to me and saying you know what's this what's this on your phone you got it right and get out get out get out I don't want to look at you I don't want to talk to you you said you were done with this get your things move out or you want to fish are again again I thought we work through this I thought we went to counseling you know getting caught at work getting caught with stuff on your computer at work and in and losing maybe a promotion or an opportunity at work or maybe even losing your job you know these are felt consequences

and when these come into our lives and we still can't change even though we might want to wish we still can't change the behavior

then then we know that we're dealing with something very serious and he was seeing a woman whose husband has been in a lot of pain inside just hooking up with a lot of different people and all that, and so and she's it's really about to leave but he doesn't seem to care or he's not in the sense of a consequence and if so does that mean that if he doesn't feel it the consequence doesn't mean that it's not an addiction or

no I think determining whether you or if somebody has the felt consequences is heart you know it's hard to do for somebody else but for them it's okay just coming to you she's threatening to leave you and you and you don't want to change then you know from her point of view yeah this guy likely has some sort of sex addiction other people might say he's just not he's not a one-woman kind of guy I am in but if you want to really sit down with that guy and say hey is this really what you want let you know they might say no

you know the best time to do it with an addiction is when you're ready to change and some people just aren't ready to either admit they have an addiction. Or they're not done we work with guys sometimes you only get one toe into recovery and say hey there still some stuff out there I want to try there still some some crazy out there I want to try and I'm not done with this yet another guy it's just kind of lower their head and rub their face you like me and you're going to be me and you know there may be twenty years older and their state do you want to be back here in this kind of program 20 years from now is your this is your chance man and

some unfortunate happens from time to time thank you so much I'm going to take a small break and when we come back we're going to do more and to buy the diction and treatment and how we can help individuals and couples out there who were struggling with this issue will be back in a moment and Paradise to rekindle the version of vacation without the kids a vacation where you can learn how to communicate where you and your partner actually hear each other and game inside if so vacation counseling is your next vacation April Brown has created vacation counseling and Southwest Florida as a perfect option for you and your partner our Retreats are one couple at a time we have a variety of packages available to choose from including virtual Couples Retreat if you and your partner interests in the vacation counseling please visit us at vacation counseling

dot-com for more information on pricing and packages also follow us on Instagram and Facebook to keep track of the latest news stories activities or coupons on vacation counseling and Doctor April's other services we encourage you to sign up for receive a monthly newsletter called intimate connections at dr. April Brown. Calm remember if you and your partner are struggling with communication and if you all are looking for a retreat to connect vacation counseling can be vacation in Southwest Florida

welcome back to the bring an intimacy show where intimacy is real well today I'll topic is sexual and sexual addiction as an intimacy problem and we have Matthew winner here to sit here and talk to us about this and so much before we go into the treatment I know sometimes when people are thinking they are they're realizing are there was sconces realizing they have a sexual addiction problem

sometimes the thing it's that like what kind of, what happened to me to the cost that you know you always have to be a trauma or what's your thought sir

we believe that trauma is at the root of almost all Addiction in specifically sexual addiction we believe that trauma and specifically attachment trauma is at the root of this addiction right where a child was reaching out to get their needs Matt and they were either abused or dismissed and response right they were verbally or psychologically spiritually emotionally physically sexually abused or they were their caregivers had their back to them and they were trying to do whatever they could to get them to turn around and pay attention to them emotionally and you would think in a trauma That Base program most of our guys are coming from environments where they were they were physically abused or there was some sort of sexual trauma is true we do see a lot of guys that are like that and I believe there are a lot of sex addicts out there that enjoy that kind of trauma what we might call a big T trauma

right now but actually 85% or more of sex sex sex addicts that have been surveyed I'm a prospect our country and in most of the men that come to our program actually are more in that little T trauma of my emotions were not validated at home I didn't have a warm connection to my caregivers they were present but nobody seemed like they're paying attention to my emotions are my needs or validating me as a person other than the things that I could do I was value for what I could do how I could perform but not for who I was

and all sorts of incest is like that a simple way of looking at it just really simple is kind of what we call Hot Box and cold box HotBox is kid reaches out and get to be used by the parent in some form or fashion or they're getting abused in the parent doesn't pay attention to the cold box is kid is reaching out to connect with the parent and the parent is distracted and has their emotional gave away from the town so that can be the drug addiction and you know their own addictions their own marriage problems finances whatever whatever it is it's pulling the Gaze of the parent away from the child in both scenarios that kid has to kind of figure out for himself or herself how do I deal with my environment how do I understand who I am and they walk away with messages like I'm I'm I must be bad there something wrong with me or I don't matter I'm not valuable and doze

messages are at the root of most sexual addiction so you take that broken that's right

and then you couple that with an early introduction to maybe a maladaptive sexual behavior where the kid goes good for me you kind of wine those together and that's kind of the root of a sexual addiction where I have to take care of myself and you do look here's this thing like you said in with sexual addiction is a so much focusing on stuff with like when it comes to I'm connecting with a significant other or my wife my husband yeah well because those messages that there that were developed or those little scripts like that I have to take care of myself I guess I have to take care of myself eggs have to figure this out because I lived in that box right I lived in this little mold I live in the soul group blueprint of how relationships are supposed to work for me this is how I understand I

relationships as I reach out for help and support and I get abused and rejected I get treated bad or I get I reach out for help and support and I get dismissed and invalidated if that's all I knew growing up and I had to take care of myself then accidentally I'm going to think that my romantic relationship is going to operate the same way and

either I look for relationships that mirror those dysfunction or I am pressed those dysfunctions on my relationships because I think and you probably can count on us all the time that's so consciously I think the brain think if I can get a second shot of this I can do it better and so I accidentally replicate my own dysfunctional childhood environment in my romantic relationships and then what happens right I can't be intimate with this other person because they don't feel safe to me because I'm seeing them through the lens of my night exactly yeah yeah so I'm before we get into the treatment part as people are listening and there may be a person out there they're like

I'm struggling I'm watching tons of for I know I'm visiting strip clubs and I'm spitting up you know a lot of excess money or whatever the case may be our on-site in spending a lot of excess money how can I began to talk to their partner about what's going on that's super hard right if I if I'm realizing that I'm sorry to have a compulsive addiction usually the the the impulse is to hide the impulse is going to be too I'll keep it under wraps because what happens if they find out in that this is the deep-seated fear of the people who struggle with sex addiction because it comes from that attachment trauma right in the fear is if they really knew me they would reject me and leave me so there is no there is almost no way that they are going to volunteer that information when I'm going to do and I worked on me and

you guys set up there just going to try to manage it there's going to try to white-knuckle it there's going to try to like I'm going to stop not going to do it I can do it today I haven't done it for three days and in and put eventually because I haven't dealt with the trauma at the root of it it comes back around ya be right about that but yeah there's so many consequences right and there's all these little Boogeyman all over but what guys don't realize is that admitting than in men and women both struggling with this addiction David they don't realize that that admitting that this addiction is is is present in their life is not the consequence it is the opportunity to get better and feel it's so many people have told me that getting discovered was was that was a consequence of their behavior and I said no it's not it's not that is the opportunity for you to stay

the healing process a consequence go for it so I think some people within this addiction who are brave enough to go to their partners and say I'm really need help I'm really struggling with this and it's crushing to their Partners it really is because it feels like such a deep betrayal some of these behaviors said that like you said maybe they should look at it as and

opportunity which is hard when your victim so I think the opportunity and is more for the addict write a bike I want to get out from under this I want to get better I want to be a better husband or partner yeah I want to live a life a real life you know for the partner there's some really no words to describe the devastation of these behaviors and most of the time what I hear is just the lying there's been so much lying and in and they don't really know

but the reality has been as long as it's addiction has been going on it's like there's been another person in their relationship that they weren't aware of and so so they're going to immediately start to try to figure out what the reality was wait so you were you acting out we were on that trip are you hooking up with people when we were over here doing this or what about this time that you were gone for three days on a business trip and so they're going to try to piece the reality in a complain during our treatment and must they all she's she's gone off the rails she's she's just look she's just seeing ghosts everywhere and no she's searching for safety searching for her reality and she deserves to have that but yeah it's PTSD really at the poor but then we called betrayal trauma and when you look at brain scans of

lavender betrayal trauma are very similar to wartime veterans it's emotional bombs rather than literal bombs but the effect on the brain is very very like Wi-Fi so effective partner you

find something and you think the you know we're talking is doing a lot of stuff how do you approach them

I would I don't know if there's a right way to do this because it's so overwhelming in that moment when that the first discovery have them that if you come to them in anger and it hurt and then even in Rage like I was going to tell you that you shouldn't respond that way but what I would say to those partners that are in those initial stages of discovery of the addiction is that this isn't about you this is something that predated your relationship with this person and it has more to do with where they are at in their trauma and their own psychology it's not because you're not good enough it's not cuz you're not beautiful it's not cuz you don't have sex enough it's not cuz you gain weight because you had kids it's it's not it's not you didn't cause it

and unfortunately you're not going to be able to fix it and they have these people suffering from this addiction need help but if they are the department you know they did more lingerie try to find out you know different ways to

how to do their best to make himself you know more available so as we move on to this next part

yes yeah that's that's the good news because what we're dealing with him is not something that causes permanent damage there is a part there's a part of all of us that predates our drum

and we can find that person we can get to know that person and we can find out who we were before we started pretending before we started performing before we started thinking that we weren't enough and using sexual behaviors to try to feel the emotions that we wanted to feel and not feel the emotions that we didn't want to feel there's a person that predated all of that and you're not permanently damaged because you weren't always like this and no kid six seven year old kid wanted to grow up and be a sex act they don't that's not how you are that's not who you are these are things that you do they are not who you are and when we can get in and deal with the traumatic roots of why I seek on safety Within These behaviors and we can alleviate the pressure around us traumas I'm guys can find

and it men and women can find tons of success in recovery but just like alcohol just like drug addiction this is a lifelong commitment to recovery but you can live a deep rich fulfilling life and it and it is so possible for everyone I know I hear from some people that I don't remember my childhood so how am I going to be able to fix this

you know I don't even drive yet when all this got started I just don't remember yeah there's kind of two things going on there and one is a little bit more therapy we were than the other so I'll start with the the therapy we will win and we'll meet towards the grounded one so that their version is there's a part of you that was traumatized I was hurt that was an in a traumatic situation and that was overwhelming so my with in my psyche so to speak I've cut off that part of me because that part is holding all of that pain and hurt so and I've been doing that for a really really long time so that little part of that little kid part of me that was traumatized I don't really know that person I've got them kind of shut up in the closet or something over there and so it feels like I have no memories from that time but I have just been reflexively shoving that kid in the closet

but if through help and guidance like I can go and unlock that door and talk to that kid and I seen over and over again clients who said that very same thing and you and we find all sorts of memories down there you know mountains and memories once we create the safety and I'm digging the right places of the be because because what's happening there is I'm partially blaming myself for my trauma so I don't I don't even like that kid didn't offer whatever it is and I'm taking on the role of my drama tyzzer's you know when I do that so once we lower the volume of all that stuff and allow that kid two kind of come back and speak to us and teach us about what happened back then I know this all sounds very like existential but

heading out to the person you know I should have told someone I I yeah and I'm like you're six or five judging him for all his mistakes or would you be overwhelmed with compassion for that poor kid and what happened how they were at that age and the other one is a lot of people don't see the painful events in their past is traumatic and they need some kind of coaching around the missing hey if that happened to one of your children would how would you feel about that. Even involved in the permission to bio on what they feel about

yeah because many times whether it's some you know parent that did a stepparent uncle whatever they don't want to think bad of that person yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and the purse was actually supposed to come to the wedding because they don't want drama you know what I'm saying if I start to deal with this this is going to cost a lot of drama and family and all that kind of stuff yeah let me just push it aside and it is so easy as a third-party to say hate you a lot easier than actually doing work the same as going on because you're not dealing with it exactly when did you know you're all of your best efforts have brought you to this place maybe try

try something new and see if you can find healing in that relationship instead of continually trying to shove down how you feel about it and it's getting all this like toxicity that's just under the surface that's not helping you at your wedding but you know what is right because there's a lots of different types of treatments that we that we use in there a lot of different types of humans are effective for this addiction but one of my favorites is something called brainspotting so I don't know if you've heard of brainspotting but it's kind of I want a new but it's kind of it's new to some so it's a cousin of EMDR so if you're familiar with the MDR

it's a way in which you can access memories better stored in the midbrain which is where we stored a lot of our memories specially painful one verbal memories too so we will use brainspotting which is a way of of utilizing a high position to access memories within the mid Bank midbrain and reprocess them so it's a little bit faster than the MD are in the sense that you don't have to set up all of the the manual ization of EMDR so it works for us we have a we have a short window with our clients and then there's also a effective in long-term therapy as well but it's kind of intuitively true because I'm sure you seen this in counseling where somebody's talking about maybe a shameful memory and their eyes are glued to the floor or be no memory of abuse and and they kind of look up like this like in Estancia like helplessness or just dance right in the brain is

boring memories and it's holding that kind of eye physician in most of the trauma treatment that we've discovered within the field and was in the scientific Community they feel really weird but they work and yours the same way who knew you know looking from left to right over and over again while you're thinking about your trauma could help you deal with it so it's just one of those techniques that we used to get into the midbrain and allow people to reprocess those memories to relive those memories with a safe for emotional outcome with a more mature brain and three supportive it's very organic and you can use different techniques within a brainspotting session like

you know why empty chair work or talking younger parts of yourself or or things like that so we believe that the body wants the Keel and you put the body in the right space and it will take advantage of it and bring spy he's one of those ways another way that we treat this addiction is in community so sex addiction is by its nature nature isolating I don't no one else knows about this and I'm doing a lot of it by myself anyway and I feel cut off I feel weird I feel maybe ugly in a minute with in it and it's very isolating so bringing a groups of addicts together in a cohort and working through the material together I get to fight that lie if you knew me you would reject me I get to develop empathy skills and emotional awareness skills with

in that group and build that connection and I'm really proud of our tree tomorrow because guys won't stay connected and no stay connected for years and they're going to Cassens together and their wives will meet and then travel to visit each other enough have text chains and and zoom called that they all jump on you know I'm the cohort it's a takeover because you told those people things that you thought you were going to take to the grave and you didn't reject you such a very big part of the treatment so we do we do what we do different types of experiential and all sorts of different treatments yeah I'm glad that you mention it brainspotting before audiences to realize that of course we have an unconscious mind holds a lot of stuff and even in the sense that our body remembers everything also its body keeps score so using therapies like tap into that and then the other part of that group effort is

phenomenal because I'm so sometimes couples and think of as well maybe if I put an app on my phone to stop me from doing next wire Z and then my partner check said there's so much going on there like man with an addiction we want to make the people closest to us. You know policeman of the addiction you know the prison guard or whatever else in it we just can't do that it's so triggering for them to check those emails every day and to see you know the the update from whatever software that sends up in their inbox every morning and we we you know what I tell Partners as your vigilance did not protect them from continuing to act out and it won't moving forward to either they need to want it for themselves and apps are great but most guys that they're serious enough in there

you should know how to get around that stuff and it's only buys them a few minutes maybe a few seconds to do I really want to do this in most of the time if they're really triggered they're going to do it regardless of if there's a nap in the way or not but what a community support within an addiction brings a whole nother element and that that I'm on this journey together I have a sponsor I have a meeting and I have a space where I can go and talk about things that have been triggering to me I have can go and I have a space where I can be open about what I'm struggling with and I'm not looping my partner into the daily struggle where she or he has to feel unsafe all the time whether I'm acting out or not and what we say is you need to tell your partner within 24 hours about a lie or relapse but other than that

you know try to find those accountability relationships outside of your relationship because I'm she's not responsible she's not your mom he's not your dad to keep you in line around this addiction they're your partner or spouse, and that's a different relationship in in in in pursue that and in that Intimacy in a different way you don't want that person being your on parole officer of your addiction and in an epic or they don't want to be that either come back we're going to talk about small about treatment and also on how treatment is from a Christian perspective her faith base prospective will be back in a few moments

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Walking back to the bring an intimacy show where in Tennessee is near so today we've been talking about sex addiction and how it is an intimacy problem feeling especially with couples and even with oneself and I have Matthew winner here to sit and talk about this until we've been talkin about self and spouse and now I know that he does a lot with face paint individuals and interface place I think it's a big place program Begin Again Institute program is a clinical base program in Boulder recovery is Christian program where we engage with a Christian man who see their Christian faith as a core piece of their identity and want to engage and healing and Recovery through that their experience in relationship with God

in concert with solid clinical work we have a question from the audience from a male who is kind of asking basically about that they feel like it I'm just analyzing the question here but they feel like if they come out specially in their faith and they are from a Christian background that they're never going to be forgiven or just you know it's one of those sins that he shouldn't you know touch and how in the world did you get any kind of healing or

the stuff that they've been doing I really feel like so much of that issue in a man I really I really have a lot of sadness in my heart for that for that guy and feeling like she can't tell the truth to anybody in his life I would tell him and I'll tell other guys you know

God sees you for all of who you are and he is not staying there tapping his foot waiting for you to get it together I'm in fact he loves you and has compassion for and desires feeling for you but put more than that he's in in this with you and he is faithful to you regardless of whether or not you ever overcome this addiction so a lot of Christian guys think God is going to love me if God will love me yet Jesus will like me yet I can only get on top of this Addiction in reality is that's not true he has so much love and compassion for you in this and

and yes but everything you know cuz we talked about the trauma that most people have he saw the little boy yes and he was a little yes and he was there too and that's so hard and it's so hard to to work through with these guys that that that Jesus isn't just with you and the times where you feel his present he's always been with you even in the hard times even in the mistakes even in the choices that that you're ashamed of she was there and he doesn't feel differently about you and I say that guy is like there are people within your life and in your community that will not reflect the gospel to you when you admit that you're struggling with this addiction but that doesn't change the way that God feels about you and that doesn't

preclude the ability for you to get help when we work with Chrissy Mann in this is my passion is to encourage them in towards of deeper understanding of the gospel because Christian guys think that that Jesus love is for everybody but them and that's just that's just not true and they have few logical beliefs that aren't connecting with their life experientially and so we want to help them around that but look there is no greater example of the Gospel then when I'm somebody can pursue G's as within this addiction and find Hope and healing that is the gospel ride Open the Eyes of the Blind and to set the captives free and yes yes yes and so they're going to be people that are not going to be comfortable with you struggling with this addiction and it's speaking about it to them and those young people in

like that that are going to have a hard time with it but the people that truly loves you and that are reflections of Jesus in your life are going to want you to find feeling in and around this issue yeah yeah and it's even to touch a little bit on that we mentioned earlier there

people who are trying to get help and they feel like they're being judged by Society

yeah how do you deal with that I say this the guys you know it. There you need to find a some trusted people you need to find some safe people in your life for you to be able to talk to you about this and in right now culturally it is not a safe thing for you to talk about this openly and unfortunately and we're moving in that direction in the Therapeutic Community where it's him or recognize addiction but in our culture Broly especially Christian culture this is you're going to lose your job on the on the church board you're going to not be able to serve in the children's ministry because of the misconception that sexual addiction means that you're just going to act out on everything that moves in a true and I'm So Icey find some trusted people in your life maybe it's just a sponsor maybe your 12-step Group whatever it is and

your authentic self in that space and then every space that you really can safely but me and printing t-shirt off and that says you know I struggle with sex in front of diction is not a good idea life right and like you said people do lose thing another question which case I get Ally and from Samantha who's in New Mexico she's saying she seen her husband watching porn Ally and she's wondering it's for an addiction sex addiction retrieve porn and sex addiction the win what I intend to say is that when we get down to the nitty-gritty what we're dealing in this is the topic of show this is an intimacy disorder and it shows up and sexual behaviors like acting out outside your marriage adultery Affairs strip clubs escorts and prostitutes things and it also shows up in pornography I wouldn't necessarily separate them into

different categories because what it's doing is I'm seeking out sexual behavior its pronography is most often coupled with masturbation to bring that dopamine head to my brain and what happens when I do that because I kind of get no I kind of get high and I can't connect with you and I I can't because I can't connect with myself so what I would say to her is that how they have a careful and he wants conversation with your partner about what it means for you that they are doing this because that's what matters in the couple ship right that this you know I don't know what other couples but this is not feel right for me and this is not what I want for our marriage and I think this stuff is between you and I and I really would kind of hurts me that you're doing this house you know I'm by yourself and so have that conversation and if he is willing to change the back

can you see a marked change in the behavior then then you can be comforted by that or if he doesn't then you know that you have a bigger issue or just go and see if he'll come with you to a marriage counseling session and you guys can have a safe mediated conversation about these things it's so much information thank you so much for being in the show if people are listening and they want to connect with you or hear about your treatment can you let us know so begin again institute.com or Boulder recovery.com are the ways that you can get in touch with us and the treatment that we provide I'm so it have all of our resources are on those on those two website so Boulder is the city so Boulder and begin again Institute those are our two treatment programs and we're really proud of both of them in the end the success that we've seen

curious on the people were listening outside of Colorado how long are there is treatment programs if you go in person and if do you guys have online chicken wraps so we're in person and we are it's a two-week program and we see people from all over the world all over the country and they come and stay with us for two weeks and we're doing intensive trauma treatment and I psychoeducation 8 to 10 hours a day for 2 weeks in and guys can make a lot of progress a lot of progress quickly if we can stay in the work for those two weeks that is a little bit beyond what you can cheat and once a week kind of therapy where you going to get stuck backed into your world in all the crisis of your world and and then show up again for another 50 minutes session a week later so some guys lose Traction in their work and they need to needy for help

and we're here to help them.

Awesome thank you so much for being on the show that they really do appreciate it I'm falling Sinners who are out there just to let you know what's coming up on July 8th we have dr. John Mayer from Hodges University education in intimacy for non-traditional student July 15th we have the whole men's Chronicles they're talking about friendship and intimacy July 29th we have that beat learning how to love from the heart and on August 5th we have Ashley Cobb sex influencing and education so don't forget to follow us on bring it in to Misty back where on Twitter Facebook Instagram YouTube also going to a site we also have a variety of products that if you're interested in utilizing or needing some more information about counseling check us out this is been the bringing it's Misty back she'll thank you guys and I'll see you guys next week