welcome to from trauma to true love the podcast where we break the cycle of painful relationship and build deep lasting love you can trust I'm leaving read a relationship coach speaker and author of freedom from shame, forgiveness and healing from sexual abuse<br> I'm here to help you release the invisible wounds from your past that may be holding you back from your love you truly desire in each episode will uncover the hidden patterns shaped by early childhood trauma Explorer how they impact your relationship today and guide you toward creating the partnership you were going to have<br> whether you're looking to attract the one deep in an existing connection or finally feel safe and loved this is a space to discover with possible let's dive into your journey from trauma to life<br> I'm your host Layla Reyes and I'm deeply committed to supporting survivors of childhood trauma to break free and create healthy vibrant lives in relationships today we're continuing to delve into a topic that isn't often discussed but it's incredibly important sibling sexual abuse as someone who works closely with survivors importance of these conversations in the healing process<br> both from a professional experience and my own personal experience I know how difficult it can be to talk about childhood sexual abuse to talk about our own very personal experiences I also know that keeping it inside keeps it inside when we don't talk about it it's easy to think that were alone but when we do talk about it we can see more clearly that sibling sexual abuse happens way more often than we think so if this is your experiences is different than your history you're not alone and if this happens to you there is support available we just need to talk about it today I'm honored to welcome my dear friend Jane to this podcast to this episode of course this is not her real name but I've known Jane for over 30 years and she's grateful you agreed to share her experience with us today so welcome welcome Jane thank you<br> nice to be here ye so my goal today is to really create a safe space to discuss the complexities of sibling sexual abuse like the challenges that survivors face in the pads to Healing just my intention that through sharing Jane Story we can more fully understand the impact that this type of abuse has on a person's life and I hope that this conversation will provide insight and support to those who've experienced sibling abuse or know someone who has<br> do Gino wanted to really just first really appreciate you for sharing your doing this with me cuz I know it's not the easiest thing to do and it's very brave and crazy stuff you did do that for me for people who are listening I don't think you can we just start can you share a little bit about your energy share a little bit about your childhood in the circumstances that led up to the abuse<br> I don't remember too much of what led up to it if there was anything specific or anything that<br> happened I remember being a very happy child having a great life two parents who loved me and supported me it was good I never really got along with my brother he was always very mean to me he would<br> it was mostly verbal abuse although there were some times that he did<br> I remember I had my hair in curlers and he came by and hit one of the curlers but they were attached with the bobby pins but he didn't do any of those things in front of my parents but then of course I didn't have any recourse so I would tattle and then that got to be tiresome for my parents I see what's the age difference between you and your brother<br> 5 years and he's older or younger older is older than you okay and so then what you're saying is that the abuse if you don't remember something leading up to it but you know it's like it just started happening yes and and do you remember the when it first happened<br> I don't remember the first time specifically no but I do remember him coming into my bedroom at night<br> and a just touching me above the covers I see ya ya do you do did it how did that affect<br> you're so you know like how did that affect you at the time like what what<br> what were you thinking what were you what was going on in your mind what was what was happening with your I don't think I really thought too much about it I have<br> too young to know about<br> sex or I didn't I don't think I remember<br> when I try and remember it in sexual abuse did not enter my mind I don't even think I need her that's I think that's a really good point so how old were you when this happened well I have a I have a difficult time trying to pin down I think throughout the years I've tried to look at ages and figure out I think it was between 8 and 12 I see ya so then you know especially on the younger side on it you know that eight year old like you really wouldn't know<br> I quit when I think about it I like I was telling us about this thing like what if it doesn't make any sense and there aren't words for it run right but I do remember feeling protected or at least overprotective of my parents don't talk to strangers don't wander off don't put yourself in a position where somebody could come out of the bushes and attacked you it was always these bad people that were out there right it was never somebody in the house right right that I think that's one of the things that I've learned over the years is that the the vast majority of abused takes place from someone that we know someone is close some of its trusted somebody that's in the family were trusted by the family<br> right yeah yeah yeah when we were talking earlier you had said the end and this is true for me will let me ask it a question for you said that it be abused created a lot of confusion for you because your brother's Behavior was so contradictory right there in the during the the day he's being mean to you right and then in the in the evening at night when your parents are sleeping he's being more kind and loving towards you right and that pretty confusing are so confusing for me without experience with my father too because I you know it's just like you don't expect somebody to be that that way so how can you share a little bit about that confusion how it affected your<br> well I wanted the him be nice to me during the day right and that just never happened and there was no four and a half five years between us you know I was still in junior high he was in high school there was too much but yeah in age there I do remember<br> one specific time<br> well several specific time spent one specific time work<br> we were in his bed and he had an erection and I didn't know what it was and I kept saying stop it why is this happening you said I'm not doing anything it's just happening and yeah looking back on it but I think it was 9 right right that's really that's really young and you wouldn't expect you wouldn't know what to do about around something like that right now yeah and so<br> when is like with not understanding that like at what point did you understand but what was happening I don't think I<br> thought about understanding it I just thought about it became so uncomfortable that I wanted it to stop and I don't remember the specific day or time or year I all I remember is my parents saying that they were going to run an errand and then they would be back and I said don't leave me alone with him he bothers me<br> right<br> and is that and that's when the abused ended yes my dad understood and I don't know if I told my dad or if I told both of them I don't recall well. It happened I think I only told my dad and he got it right away but with Enzo in my situation with with the abuse like nobody talked about it afterwards so was it how was this handled then by your father or your family are here heat you're saying don't leave me alone with him he figured it out and then I never let they never left you home alone again yes you basically I<br> my father never told my mother he went to my brother and told him in phatic Lee to leave me alone and the abuse stopped but he never told my mother so when<br> they would need to leave to run an errand and they say come on you have to come with us I would say well I don't I don't want to go with you while you told me you didn't want to be left alone with him you're the one that doesn't want to be alone with him so it made me feel like I was being punished right now I have to go why don't you take him that before why don't you take him yeah and they said we were talking about that I think we have to make light of some of this because it can be so heavy right yes so did your<br> did did your father ever talk to you about it again afterwards no never never asked you if it was continuing if he was still bothering you no no I have the feeling though that he he suffered from insomnia every now and then and I think what he had with sleep apnea looking back on it so he would cuz he would nap especially on weekends when he wasn't working so I have a feeling that if he woke up in the middle of the night he would be going into one or both of our bedrooms to check the sea<br> I can't think of the word but I think my dad would be<br> going to do something like that and wanted to continue to protect me yeah yeah and you felt that you felt protected by him and the way that he responded or no I don't think I did I don't think it registered at that time only looking back on it now I think and knowing the type of person he was how he reacted you know our talks and you know how did how did this then how did you navigate your relationships with your your family how did how did you this shift how you were in relationship with your brother for example will the verbal abuse continued on LOL<br> so nothing change during the day<br> and with their physical abuse during the day to like when he hit you say so tussling with other kids was not really frowned upon or anything like that I know it just get over it right rather than attitude right so you had said that late looking back on it you felt you can see who your dad was and that he would protect you or he would do something like that but at the time it didn't really register but how did how did you feel inside around<br> your family your parents<br> at the time<br> things went on fairly normal after that I was never mentioned I never going to therapy or psychologist that we didn't have psychologists at schools and who when I was growing up<br> so but my mother came from a very strong cuz Presbyterian background<br> stiff upper lip<br> suck it up kind of<br> you know so<br> the fact that they didn't have me see anybody is psychologist or psychiatrist at that time was completely understandable how did you end you may you might understand that you might be able to answer that she might not be able to but to the best of your ability like how do from your awareness how did the abuse shape your adult life or you don't look don't relationships or how you showed up with other people in<br> in life well I think it was it's only as an adult now that I can look back and see how it shaped I don't think I ever put much stock in<br> how bad the abuse was yeah not that it was I was never violent it was just manipulative so I don't think at the time I really thought too much about it but looking back on all of the relationships I've had with men there is a been manipulative and nice to me during the day and not as nice as I have my 8 and the office Master night what's it like just acknowledging that being able to see that<br> well every time we're together we kind of talked a little bit more and I and I think last night we were mentioning and you brought it up then to my husband was kind of the same behavior nice to me during it was one of those like yes and so just from last night to today or you know right now how is that<br> impacting you were integrated like the awareness of that<br> yeah I<br> kind of wish I would have seen that 20 years ago I would have been my life would have been different but I made her choice to stay and there were a lot of positives that came out of that marriage yeah<br> of course we've talked about a few of those two like some of the best things in your life came out of that relationship and I think part of you know just making like having this awareness of the the patterns like one of the things that I when I work with client<br> and end up for my own life I've discovered that really the only way that we make changes and and has shift in our lives is when we have new awareness is running and once we have a new awareness then is like oh now I can do something about it but until then we're just in that pattern right we don't realize it and I've certainly experienced that in my own life and relationships as well like I I stayed in a relationship for a very long time<br> for the same the same reasons the night I'm like I can't I accepted so much less than what I<br> I would have if I you know I was going to reply to her right I was in this belief that I didn't matter and so why would I think that that I deserved anything more than whatever somebody wanted to give me even if it was crumbs<br> I shared earlier with you two that I see you as a really strong and resilient person like that you've you've been able to<br> is a perspective like I remember some of the things that you've said to me like around that you've never really made it<br> like this is your like it doesn't Define me listen to find you something that happened to me yes yes and it just seems like you've always held that perspective which is really very a strong perspective to have now I think I'd let that get abused to find me even though I didn't know I was doing that you do not find just lie of course but yeah inside of that belief I don't matter<br> not going to not going to really see anything else yeah and I think I'm a pleaser too so when I am in a relationship if there's something wrong there something to fix and I'm the one that can fix it instead of just letting them figure out how to fit right. I think that's really common in in with women with women and even without abuse I think it's yeah plus all the social and everything to say how you're raised in the nurturing the mother does socialization when we were saying which role was in its mother's role to do the nurturing and father's role to do the protecting or whatever providing it's all socialization how do we get<br> free of that right now you know how how do you how has that believe that you've held that you doesn't Define you<br> Define Jew<br> to be able to believe that it doesn't Define you what what were you able to do as a result of that perspective well I don't think I really thought about<br> it very much you know I was like take it ended when I was 12 and it was I guess it was always in the very back of my mind but it's very seldom came forward until I met you and we shared<br> remind me to tell me what about that that time when I was over at your house and we were hand quilting a quilt that you had made<br> and I think my daughter was born at that time<br> maybe Nolan and we were just chatting and then you brought it up a beer abuse and then I brought it up as well so I hadn't<br> I hadn't really thought about it until after it stopped I mean every now and then but nothing I just<br> I think it should have been violent or that would have been different<br> for me<br> but since it wasn't then it was just<br> something it happened and I knew my brother would never admit to it I knew he'd call me a liar which it happened when I finally told my mother about it<br> yeah is so I don't think I really even thought about it defining me I just is<br> that was just me I just didn't think about it very much right right another thing that you shared this is really comment I think with with survivors is that feeling of guilt like I did something wrong or it's my t-shirt a little bit about that like for a with that kind of where it's shifted for you and when we were talking at that time<br> that you felt partly responsible for what happened<br> not that she ever felt responsible for what happened I<br> just I mean looking back I wonder why I wasn't<br> I'm strong enough didn't think to say anything I didn't tell him no but there really any guilt in that when I just I guess I wasn't aware very much<br> what my dad did and why he didn't tell my mother and my mother saying well you're the one that doesn't want to be left alone and that's the guilt I felt like so it's not you I'm getting punished for this but not even really knowing for sure whether or not your mom even knew what had happened they could never even knew if if he if your dad told her this is one of the things one of the reasons that I wanted to talk to you and to share this here is because of that place of not talking to our kids not having that share a little bit more about that later but I think that's a really key point is here you're saying he's bothering me your dad is saying<br> stopping it basically going to your brother and saying stop it but then there's no conversation afterwards how how I mean I'm just as a young girl going through that I understand the place if not like I don't understand anything anyway but where I am today I'm like we need to help our children understand what's happening and and give them words to You and I was very upfront with my children when they were quite young about appropriate touching and in our Branch hatching and then when they got old enough to understand then I told him about myself oh you did tell him yeah I told both of them how how old were they when you told them<br> probably Junior High okay for maybe I stayed maybe with my daughter maybe 12 or when she's not around her. Or something like that cuz I told but I kind of wanted to make the conversation approachable with me so I was always<br> talking to them about school and teacher's and what are you doing and and you know this person<br> I just wanted to make the conversation open so they would feel that they could come to me with whatever right right right and how did that like just for prospective did that did you notice that they did come to you with things and did tell you things that we're going on in their lives in a way that maybe they wouldn't have if you hadn't made it so open I think my daughter did yeah yeah I don't think my son did as much I do remember and just Grady got the sex packets from school and came home and he had to read part of it out loud and answer questions I had to be part of it so it started that dialogue and I don't recall if it came if inappropriate touching was in that<br> yeah but from what I remember it was about that time fifth grade then<br> so I'm curious about like we're going to say something well just a little interjection my brother ended up being arrested for molesting a stepdaughter and he write had an ankle bracelet and when my father daughter cut off all Communications with him<br> I never spoke to him again<br> and your father just for the sake of people listening your father has since passed right by and so from that point they never spoke again<br> on the point when he was until he died right yeah so my brother had a son and is that in my nephew had four children and two girls<br> so when my mother<br> moved closer to me she said<br> off handedly that my brother was living with his son and children and I said to my mother did you tell the mother of these little girls that their grandfather has been arrested for<br> molestation and she said no and I said well don't you think that they deserve to know that ain't right way and she kind of shrugged her shoulders and this was after she knew haha. I hope you share yeah yeah and so I got on the phone and called the police in their city and said I can't get a hold of them, they're out somewhere can you send a policeman there to tell him yeah and my nephew never believe me he you said my dad said it wasn't true and that you're lying and I said it really doesn't matter whether you believe it or not just don't leave your dad alone with your girls that's all right<br> and here you are I mean what when I think about that kind of thing I think what in the world what what motivation would somebody have to to to call someone up and say he sexually abused me when I was a kid<br> like what would the motivation be to lie about something like that like people who we don't we don't talk about this like it happened and we don't talk about it we're going to talk about it when it didn't happen right when I try to make it up we don't even talk about it when it does happen<br> like there has to be some kind of motivation on the motivation is you want to keep those girls safe<br> almost would you call him well my brother bought this I was wanted all my parents money yeah yeah yeah but your brother did this so that's just what he's that's just the excuses using to tell his son and mother and your mother right oh my gosh. It's that's crazy so I've had when the girls were younger I've had them out for a week or so for visiting during summer vacation and whatnot and so I talked to both of them about it too yeah but they were young they were<br> and maybe when I came out yeah yeah<br> yeah that's a hard one how do you how do you keep I know I know somebody that I've were that I know who<br> I actually created a video for him with something to say Jeremy endoca something to say and I just did just got posted this past week and he his story is he went and approach the person who<br> abused him when he was a kid and he's the one that got arrested for harassment<br> right like something has something has to change around this to wear or not I mean I just can't I mean nobody I just don't I don't know of anybody who's going out there lying about this kind of thing<br> that is maybe I'll maybe I'll discover something but there's going to have to be something really significant that until somebody did tell to lie about it you know I'm curious if there was like a any like what's support there wasn't any so you didn't talk about it so there wasn't really any support there for you and you just kind of went about your life and kind of what happened in my world too it's just like okay just going to go about our life<br> life is normal<br> one of when we were talking earlier also last night you mentioned that one of the hardest parts of sharing your story was how people change the way they look at you when you tell them and said I'm curious if you could share just a little bit about that and how you've navigated that and and<br> you know what just so that people can understand what your experience was a rat has been around that as well as<br> an emotional look at that makes sense like physically they would owe I'm so sorry<br> but then there was always this idea in the back of my mind that every time they looked at me that's what they're thinking whether that was true or not right so when I finally was in therapy and then my therapist said you should have your parents come up and have your mother in with you and after you were married and tell her<br> then I started talking more about it to different people but I as I said I didn't like their reaction and<br> I mean in a way it's kind of a private I think you don't want to announce it but at the same time I was feeling like I should tell my great-nieces right about it so I said the responsibility to do other people I know and my husband was not supportive of that he did not want to hear anything about it so there was no talking right. Him yeah you say you know like this private thing and he has written a book about it. I'm curious because violence is part of what keeps at least that's what it from talking about it so much<br> I have learned that the silent keeps can keep that those Energy stock and I'm wondering if there's been any hoping there's been a positive impact talking to me about it but it is not it's okay but what what has been the impact of sharing it with me about it. I think telling my great nieces was I felt when I heard the sentence than my mother said that my brother was living with his son and children I immediately called the police immediately that was my that was my ability yeah<br> yeah<br> so<br> I think<br> and I think it was well worth I think everything is fine nothing happened the mother was very aware we still speak<br> yeah yeah there's a gnat in my children yet<br> really talked about it except with you but in terms of it being a positive or negative experience and talking about it with me about Lee it's a little uncomfortable sometimes but no much more beneficial than not talking about it and do you have any sense of in what way it's beneficial<br> I mean I know that's a hard question but what I'm trying to like let's say there's people listening and they're out here and they're like have never shared it before and they don't have in the end there their they're there struggling with this it in silence and alone and so they they say they've never talked about it before and yet they know that this is something that they need to talk to somebody about what what would be the benefit of doing them<br>well I think if someone is having difficulty talking about it I would urge them to find a psychologist has dealt with that<br> kind of behavior first and then be guided by<br> therapy and if not talking about it to anybody else but those psychologist or psychiatrist would definitely be beneficial there is a weight that comes off your shoulders definitely when you start talking about it yeah yeah I've experienced that and you know the first time that I started that I said anything about the abuse I would I mean i d e n t r i just I wouldn't be able to and then is somebody asked me what in the beginning you know what what's what's wrong what's wrong what's something's going on with you I was abused by my father but over the years it's like okay this is what happened to me and and it's easy to talk about it today and not have it be<br> even though it's part of who I am because it happened to me it's not it's not like that's not the identity right and so I found the beat the talking about it he's is that it makes it easier to talk about it with people the more I talk about it the easier it is to talk about it and it wasn't easy at all right yeah I agree and people's reactions are different to some people are interested in they want to ask questions in other people you just get a complete silence from and so you have to decide<br> if you're okay with that kind of brick wall coming down right like in course immediately or the same well it shouldn't have said that should have kept it interesting because I don't know if it's because of the work that I do around this but I you know I've looked at the research there's like the research says one and four girls one and six boys that this is happened to and when I talk to people about it and I cuz I will share you know just as part of normal conversation I was sexually abused by my father<br> and the response that I get probably 9 out of 10 people 9 out of 10 women<br> say to me that happened to me too<br> and so it's like I don't know so I don't know if they're there the response I'm getting is because of the work of the work I do but but 9 out of 9 out of 10. Not for 1 out of 4<br> like I just feel like this is happening way way more and one out of four is what's reported and if we're not talking about it that's another that's an Under reporting of<br> the the<br> you know the magnitude of how of what is happening when you say when you look back on<br> not that you're doing this all the time except when I'm here think about<br> the past what support do you wish you had what what would what would have been<br> good to have at that time<br> well I wish my dad would have told my mother definitely and<br> I don't know that they could have ordered a psychiatrist or psychologist when I was young<br> yeah but<br> I think that definitely would have been<br> looking back on it would have been helpful I don't know if I would have been open to it though either at such a young age and then to have an adult that I didn't know say this is sexual abuse right when not even never having heard that Free Ride for right<br> so I don't know I don't know yeah that's a hard when it's a really hard when and you know is you're saying that I'm thinking also wow like your brother didn't get help either like what would that have been like if he had a psychiatrist or psychologist or therapist or somebody to talk to somebody to to tell him this isn't okay to do this like like because he went on to marry a woman who had a daughter young daughter and this young woman was now a young woman and I were the only ones I know about so what other young girls were subjected to the deathly exactly and if he had gotten help when he was a teenager right maybe he wouldn't have gone on to her<br> other people right yeah yeah so I guess I really believe that educating our children is crucial and you knew your story about saying he's bothering me really shows how important it is to pursue these statements more deeply to really understand what's going on and so you know I can only imagine that when you told your father you were you know you were thinking he's bothering me and you know exactly what that means even if you didn't have the words that you didn't have to work for it and what's he thinking he's bought he's bothering her like we need a Common Language and and I'm what do you think about what we need to do differently as a society to help children communicate more effectively to help<br> yeah to be able to<br> Davis what happened to me that's a tough one hit it I mean obviously we need to talk to her children but there are things that<br> parents have a very difficult time even mentioning it yeah<br> I'm guilty of that for sure. It's just that you know I wish that I would have had<br> better skills better you know training we need we need that as parents may be part of a parenting class class yeah absolutely and maybe ongoing how did talk to her children at different ages there's some really good people out there that I follow that are doing that so I won't let you know I'll see about bringing that forward and some of these in an episode on how to how to talk to kids that would might be a really good conversation to have with somebody who no doubt into recompense me so yeah that's good so you know as we wrap up I really want to encourage anyone listening to this experience sibling sexual abuse to come forward<br> to seek help you don't have to suffer in silence and there is support available and the more that we talked about it the more power that we take back over our lives and relationships that went to really thank you Gene for your courage and sharing your story I know it's going to make a a difference for people who are listening today yeah yes why else would we be doing this Friday at 2 everyone who's out there just remember you're not alone in there is a path to healing and freedom if you or someone you know is struggling with sibling sexual abuse please reach out for support share with a trusted friend a therapist reach out to me at Leyla Reyes.com l e i l a r e y e s l e s.com and I just want to end today with just really very strongly every voice matters<br> restore accounts and until next time take care and be kind to yourself<br> thank you for joining me on this episode of from trauma to true love I honor your courage for being here taking steps towards the love and connection that you truly desire I've been there too stuck in painful pattern longing for love but Unsure how to create it in a way that felt safe real and Blasting you don't have to figure it all out on your own if you ready to explore with been holding you back and discover what's truly possible for your relationship I would love to support you visit Leyla Reyes l e i r e y e s Leyla Reyes and schedule a call today will take the first step together tour the Deep meaningful love that you were born to her I can't wait to connect with you until next time take good care of yourself and know that real Lasting Love is within your reach<br>