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Morgana and Devin: Hello and welcome to a new episode of Crazy Sexy midlife love. I am your co host Morgana and here's my husband, Devin. We were noticing Devin's hair before we went live. I look like one of the Sopranos. Yeah, so a little bit unfortunate. There's nothing you can do, The show goes on and you're still Crazy Sexy handsome. You're my Soprano. Yeah, my bad. Okay, go with that.
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Morgana and Devin: So the topic of today's episode, and we have a fantastic guest coming up in a little while, but the topic is turning your mate into your soul mate. I know we've talked a lot about finding the love of your life. And we've also talked a lot about making relationship work. So this falls more
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Morgana and Devin: On the side of making the relationship work. Part of having Crazy Sexy Midlife Love--what makes it so grea--tis we are grown up enough to learn how to be better partners and make it last. And things still come up.
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Morgana and Devin: We're human, and we're different. Yes. So I was thinking of asking you, before we bring on Arielle, Devin. What moved YOU from mate to soul mate?
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Morgana and Devin: That's a great question. I mean, listen you I've told the story about the line in South Africa, many times. And I think that was sort of realization, I believe that quite frequently. We are the last to know
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Morgana and Devin: And so I think there's a certain thing where it's just like my brain needed to catch up with my actions. In other words, my behavior with you around you for you was sort of like the indicator before I sort of pieced the puzzle together on my
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Morgana and Devin: And so I don't know if that's answering the question, because you're giving me that look like, "what?"
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Morgana and Devin: It's just so different than my process right well and I you know it's interesting when I speak with obviously with a lot of I speak with a lot of men.
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Morgana and Devin: And, you know, one of the things that I humbly believe is clear is that you know if there was one truth is to say, it's like, here's the difference between men and women.
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Morgana and Devin: I would say that women are naturally inclined to be more emotionally aware and in touch with their feelings like that emotional IQ.
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Morgana and Devin: Than a regular guy like I think a guy has to sort of like he doesn't even know he's wrestling with the problem. He doesn't even know that he's thinking about the problem, it's not it's not even on his radar of the problem.
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Morgana and Devin: And not the problem. But if sort of like having those kinds of insights and I think I think where it's so clear to women.
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Morgana and Devin: When I speak to women. They seem to be much more like, Oh, I knew, I knew it for months, or there was, you know, oh, when he you know we were standing under the street lamp at such and such and such and such. Then I knew
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Morgana and Devin: I think that happens from him, but I think there is sort of like, I think we need other little pushes little devices do things that happen, little by little,
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Morgana and Devin: That allow us to kind of really get that thing. I mean, I think there was this moment for me.
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Morgana and Devin: When I when I started getting jealous.
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Morgana and Devin: Like I was like, oh, okay.
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Morgana and Devin: jealous. Jealous was apartment. I think when and I've talked about this before, like my mother was like, I think she's just guileless, I don't think she's up to anything.
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Morgana and Devin: Like there was that moment, but that was. Keep in mind that was my mother's inside that wasn't my insight. But once you had that insight was like, like all of a sudden was like the little, little cliques in my brain were like, Well, okay, so maybe she isn't just the person this knucklehead.
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Morgana and Devin: Well, I mean, you are in your mind.
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Morgana and Devin: And so, so I think those were that i think i think we need to piece together the puzzle and i mean i think this is true for
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Morgana and Devin: People. But I think for me, there was, like, for sure. There was like a, you know, I mean, I think most people gone through their heartbreak and difficulties and challenges and upsets and all that other stuff.
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Morgana and Devin: And but also you start getting a different series of messages. And so we're still, you know, we'll see too many people are still reveling in the baggage and the challenges of what their previous relationship Grotto.
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Morgana and Devin: But I think once you make the decision. I think that's a powerful tool is like once you like, Okay, I've decided this is what's happening.
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Morgana and Devin: But before that, and this was, I think, critical in the dating process was you had already decided you wanted a serious relationship.
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Morgana and Devin: That it just like chasing skirt and dating a bunch of women just seems like more work than it is worth to you right there. I say that with a smile on my face. Yeah.
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Morgana and Devin: What did I miss
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Morgana and Devin: Miss a Thing I believe you about what when you said that you you were looking for a serious relationship, you know, I absolutely was, I think, at the end of the day.
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Morgana and Devin: I'm somebody who I think knew that I do better within a relationship. And I also kind of got this idea that, you know, love a service. You know what I mean, like, it's about the partnership. I think I got that part.
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Morgana and Devin: I didn't necessarily like the road that you need to traverse in order to do that, because you know relationships are hard. It's challenged. Yeah.
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Morgana and Devin: But yeah, no, without question, I knew that I wanted to be in relationship with no one to be married.
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Morgana and Devin: Well, I knew that I wanted to be married. Eventually, because I had never been married before. So that was kind of my bucket list.
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Morgana and Devin: But I wasn't willing to see what it was. Yeah, that was kind of all there was loved and happily married, but I didn't want to get married to anybody because I could have been married several times prior
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Morgana and Devin: Um, and I didn't know that I wanted to be married to you. I just thought you were cute and charming and I liked you.
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Morgana and Devin: And you didn't have that giant expiration date above your head that everybody else had like you talk about MOMENTS WHEN YOU KNEW I WAS THE ONE. MY
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Morgana and Devin: My transition was way more gradual so I couldn't really point to any single moment, but I can point to the moment with maybe every other guy I've ever dated when I knew they were not the right one. And I kept waiting for that with you.
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Morgana and Devin: And every time one of your secrets would come out instead of it scaring me off into the woods like it might have somebody else. It made you a better fit for me. Gotcha.
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Morgana and Devin: So it just, I noticed after about a year that I was just really happy. I felt really safe. I still didn't see the expiration date.
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Morgana and Devin: I didn't feel any need or push that we had to get married at any particular time. I just kind of knew we were going to
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Morgana and Devin: And I made a decision that when you said yes, maybe in four or five years or when you asked when you asked, and maybe for five years. I'm say yes. And then you messed it all up by asking me like six months later when I thought I had so much more time.
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Morgana and Devin: Right and messed up I you totally just tried to ruin everything.
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Morgana and Devin: Very funny, because I like I think you were like, I love you. First, you were like, all you were like in your career. One young lady was like okay so let's go that route. And you were like traumatized why
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Morgana and Devin: I thought this would be more hideous. And so, so that was kind of entertaining but we have to be like married 13 times in in sort of like ritual marriages before I finally have the courage to married legally
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Morgana and Devin: He said, right. It was something ridiculous like that. That's correct. Thank you for making it safe for me. Well, you know what else was I going to do I think once you make a decision. You follow through on the decision.
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Morgana and Devin: And then I think, well, you know, one day I'll have a soprano haircut. And then what she can use all locked in. Well,
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Morgana and Devin: You try to ruin the relationship with marriage. And then when that didn't destroy. He suggested that we live together and that we go on trips and we get married 100 times like you've tried everything to destroy this marriage a haircut is nothing right
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Morgana and Devin: But house cancer. That's Lord. Uh, yeah, we know, we know that the max limit of house cats for one family.
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Morgana and Devin: Will be passed it. We asked a while ago, we have to remain the show. Crazy Sexy would like love and cats. Right. That will tip our ratings over the edge. Yeah, that's the over the top.
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Morgana and Devin: Over the moon.
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Morgana and Devin: Number too many cats but it's fine. I mean, this is these are, this is the joy, the joy of the Crazy Sexy midlife love thing.
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Morgana and Devin: Is that you get to have a certain measure of gratitude, you recognize that we've already. You've already gone through so much so you might as well just enjoy yourself you know so cats and we're grown up housecat weekend can have a problem that
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Morgana and Devin: You can paint a room for wild colors without permission. We went all this way. Yeah, just to be traumatized by house cats. Yes. So there we go.
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Morgana and Devin: As we were discussing earlier, tonight's guest is my friend Arielle Ford. Now, most of you know her as this pioneer in personal development for I think 30 years now. She is the reason you've heard of Deepak Chopra, she is the sister of Shadow Work icon Debbie Ford, and she has been a trailblazer in love both in her books and her classes and her retreats around the world and in her personal life with her husband, Brian. So I just wanted to bring her
in and talk about love and talk about her love life and talk about her wisdom and she quite literally wrote the book on today's topic, how to turn your mate into your soul mates. So, welcome, welcome to everyone.
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Morgana and Devin: And let's. There we go, there we go. So
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Morgana and Devin: Let's start with the good stuff.
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Morgana and Devin: How did you meet Brian
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: Oh, gosh. Um, well, the short version of the story is, I woke up one morning at the age of 43 and I had this epiphany, which was basically Oh my God, I forgot to get married.
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: So I decided to use every prayer process and ritual. I had used to build my business to see if I could impact my love life and
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: And I don't know how long it took till we actually max. I wasn't tracking it but somewhere, I would say in about a year I manifested Brian and he was
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: He actually exceeded everything on my wish list and three weeks after we met. We got engaged and a year after that we had three weddings and we'll have our 23rd anniversary in June.
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Morgana and Devin: Wow. Wow. So
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Morgana and Devin: What, why were you ready at 43
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: You know, I think I was so busy focused on my career that there really wasn't room for anybody else, or anything else. I was having way too much fun.
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: I'd be driving home from a screening or a gala or a party or something and I suddenly realized I had nobody to talk to about it.
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: The week would take off. And I'd go back to making 100 phone calls a day smiling and dialing and getting all my clients national TV and then that one morning something some switch just flipped. And I was like, Oh, I should do this. But it worked.
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Morgana and Devin: So what would you say to like
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Morgana and Devin: All the people out there who say, Oh, you can't wait. You know it's you can't focus on your career. First, you can't wait until it's too late and that kind of stuff. What would you say to them.
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: There's no it's never too late. Ever. You know, I, my, my mother in law met her second soulmate. At the age of 80 on match.com
I mean right now today on planet Earth in spite of coven
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: It's never ever been easier to meet and marry a soulmate ever. It's just so easy right now. And the only people who aren't having it happen.
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: Are the ones who are trapped in their limiting beliefs of I'm too old. I'm too fat. I'm too damaged all the good ones are taken online dating doesn't work, you know, they have a million excuses.
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: And those excuses are going to keep them alone and single probably for the rest of their lives. But for the ones that are brave and bold and really have a deep desire for connection. It's super easy.
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Morgana and Devin: So you mentioned something a second ago about manifesting your husband.
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Morgana and Devin: So you took obviously a very proactive approach to sort of like making that happen. You know, and I think people do things unconsciously. Can you say a little bit more about manifestation
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Morgana and Devin: Sometimes like manifestation. What does that mean, okay. So let's assume
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: Working for some Corporation. You're divorced. You got four kids to feed you get fired. Now there's a couple of things you could do. You could sit home watching ESPN all day.
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: With you know well if it's meant to be for me to have a job. The job will knock on my door, which of course you would never do. You're not gonna let your kids starve.
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: Or you would get your resume together you get online you'd start networking, you'd call everybody you know you'd go to LinkedIn, you've got all the apps.
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: Knowing and trusting that in a short amount of time, you're going to be putting food on the table, right, this is what people do. But when it comes to their love life, especially women failing.
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: It's meant to be level fine me. I want it to happen organically. They want to have the cute meet like in the movies. And I wonder why they're alone there alone because just like they wouldn't let their kids starve. They're letting their heart starve.
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Morgana and Devin: I was in a conversation with a group of women recently and I'm just because you come from this place of being this powerful successful businesswoman. Yay. You
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Morgana and Devin: I hear from a lot of women who talk about their money and their success intimidates men. What do you have to say, Did you did you encounter that when you were dating.
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: It's true that there are some beta men out there who will be intimidated by smart successful well to do women, but that's not your man.
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: Trust me. There are plenty of men out there who loves smart successful confident well to do women and that's what you're looking for. You've got one. I've got one all my clients out of them.
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: You know, this is not an impossible thing. It's an excuse. Oh, I'm too powerful. Oh, I'm too smart or I'm going to intimidate them. It's like, yes, you will intimidate, some of them, but not the one that's for you.
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Morgana and Devin: It's an excellent screening device. I'm
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Morgana and Devin: Devin and I were just talking about like
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Morgana and Devin: How did you know that this person was your soul mate. What moved this person from blue. He's cute to soulmate material.
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: So there was a lot of levels on which we were already connected on the unseen plane. So, on the day that we met in the 3D world. There was a recognition
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: I knew he knew everybody in the room with us know now, just because I have this overwhelming sensation. Oh my god. He's my soulmate. I was not prepared to commit to him and spend a life with a stranger.
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: I was 43 years old, I had a lot at stake. I wanted to really get to know somebody because yes it looked at it smell good. It tastes good. But was he really good
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: So that's why we got engaged, very quickly, but I told him I'm not taking Vows for at least a year, I need to get to know you, your history, your family, and vice versa.
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: And really make sure that we have a shared vision for the future and that we can be together because so many people live out of this limited thinking of we each only get one big love in a lifetime.
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: And that's just nonsense. There's more than enough romantic soulmates out there for everybody. In fact, my friend john gray estimates that each of us has at least 200,000 potential soulmates out there.
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Morgana and Devin: Yeah, that's actually like a capitalistic ideas come around for years because at each level or what a catalyst might say that at each level of our development, there is an equivalent soulmates
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Morgana and Devin: To carry to that next spot and maybe they're going to be there with you for a lifetime. But more often than not, you want to aspire to be more. And so there needs to be somebody there for you.
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: Right. And actually, you just triggered a thought because so many people think that if you meet somebody and you say, You're my soulmate. And you marry them and you end up getting divorced. Oh my god, they weren't my soulmate.
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: And I totally disagree with that. I think somebody can totally be your soulmate and the relationship will come with an expiration date.
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: And it doesn't mean they weren't your soulmate. It doesn't mean you can't still love them. It just means you're moving forward to the next phase of your life with a new soulmate.
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Morgana and Devin: Well, there is actually again going back to capitalistic interpretation. There's something called the get which is a marriage dissolution
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Morgana and Devin: Right, and that's a mitzvah and other words and good things getting a divorce. Because the idea was is that you fulfilled the promise you fulfilled the thing you were intended to do together.
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Morgana and Devin: Yeah I know, it's, you know, you just have to bring the rights right subject. But yeah, no, I think it's a fascinating thing and i think it's it's also an important way to look at
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Morgana and Devin: who it is that your what your history is look like as opposed to, oh it's baggage with all the negative mindset that comes with baggage. Oh, I failed. It really is. No. These were successes. They just weren't intended to be successes that last for the next 18 years
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: Right. And people get so junkie about it, you know, they just they beat themselves up and they have to make their ex partner wrong. And it's really kind of sad, you know,
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: You know, and why is that because arranged marriages are still the norm there, even if you're from a wealthy family with a lot of modern things that you do.
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: And there's a reason why arranged marriages work because they're looking to make sure that you are on the same level, you know you're coming in as strangers, but you have this similar similar family and cultural background.
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: With a you know a vision for the future that is usually in alignment. So there's there's a lot that goes into selecting a soulmate.
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Morgana and Devin: Well, and it isn't also moving it isn't marriage based on passion. It's based on of future vision compatibility and then the love grows in the context of that relationship and
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: And you know, I just was writing an article for a magazine today saying that I believe that the state of being in love is the socially acceptable form of insanity.
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: As it's actually not love. It's nature's greatest drug high, your brain is cascading waves of hormones of dopamine and oxytocin and adrenaline and you feel so great. But really what it is is nature's trick to get us to procreate.
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: And yes, there are feelings to it, but you can hate your soulmate on a particular day, and still love them and still behave in a loving way.
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: So I think that's where there's a lot of confusion for people. I hear the line all the time. Oh, I left him because I love him, but I'm no longer in love with him.
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: Oh god, there's a professor at Rutgers, I can't think of her name right now who's actually studied the brains of in love people.
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: You know, and, and it's proven the longest that state usually last three years, but by then you've grown into a deeper, more mature love that feels just as good, just not as wild and crazy
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Morgana and Devin: You know, I remember a dear friend of mine. A number of years ago said, you know, love is an action and that action is service.
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Morgana and Devin: And so, I believe it is about this sort of, you know, obviously, things like commonality of belief and vision and all those other things. But a lot of it is, is that you keep making conscious choices to be in partnership
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Morgana and Devin: To maintain the relationship and recognize it's not merely just oh you give me butterflies today. And if you don't, tomorrow, then I'm in somehow the love is lost. It really is much more about the decision making that we have to maintain the value of the relationship
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: And all that needs to, you know, really come into your selection process, you know, because if you're just going for the heat. You just going for that hot chemistry.
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: I put money down that in six months. It'll be over because the chemistry isn't reality, it's fun and it feels great. But, you know, I've done a lot of interviewing of soulmate couples.
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: And a couple of things they have in common. They almost never know on the first meeting that their soul mates for most of the women they had no sense of attraction until the fifth date.
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: Right and the chemistry level with the soulmate is not as high as it was with other people. But what it comes with is maturity and this trust level and compatibility and things that are important to having a long, happy marriage with somebody
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Morgana and Devin: I didn't know I wanted to marry Devon right away, but he was definitely cute enough and nice and safe enough to see again.
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Morgana and Devin: And then when he lied about why some stars are green and yellow when we went to the observatory on our second date. That's when I knew I wanted to sleep with him. That's when he got really
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Morgana and Devin: Yeah, listen, if you have to lie, you know,
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: Listen, we all lie all the time. It's just, you know what, there's levels of lying. I mean, there's little white lies just to get through the day easier. And then there are trunk lives.
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Morgana and Devin: Well, oh, this was just for Mr. Dennis Devon Devon tells a story and it's so outlandish and ridiculous and charming that I couldn't resist.
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Morgana and Devin: Well, how can you, how can you
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Morgana and Devin: I mean there's evidence because they move
00:15:52.200 --> 00:16:00.450
00:16:01.710 --> 00:16:16.860
: I can't think of the guy's name right now. But anyway, he said that this guy that we call doc taught him how to move the stars. Now he was trying to show me I couldn't really see it, but I wasn't totally enchanted that he wanted to move stars for me.
00:16:18.060 --> 00:16:18.660
Morgana and Devin: Ah,
00:16:21.060 --> 00:16:38.610
Morgana and Devin: The premise of this show is that midlife. Love is better. So I thought you would be a great person to talk to that, especially we, I do want to get to the topic of how to make your make your soulmate. But can you speak a little bit about why mid life. Love is better.
00:16:40.140 --> 00:16:40.620
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:54.270
: I mean, the obvious reason to me is that I now have a better sense of who I am and what my needs are and what my boundaries are.
00:16:54.840 --> 00:17:08.730
: And and this awareness that I want to spend the rest of my life with somebody who is my best friend, my lover my safe place to land somebody who put their sword in the ground for me take a bullet
00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:16.290
00:17:18.270 --> 00:17:26.340
00:17:26.820 --> 00:17:39.480
: I was just always completely entranced by his, his soul. He's just got the biggest heart and I find him endlessly fascinating to talk to. And it's nice that he's tall and handsome.
00:17:40.050 --> 00:17:49.440
: But when I was 22. That's what I would have gone for as opposed to being 43. It's like, Wow, this guy has some real depth and some real emotional intelligence.
00:17:50.430 --> 00:18:01.860
Morgana and Devin: I think there's a certain measure of liberation that comes with that with sort of like the middle age component of it. In other words, I had, I've already had the love and loss with the, you know what I mean with the
00:18:02.100 --> 00:18:11.070
Morgana and Devin: With the perfect woman, so to speak, to discover that she wasn't that perfect and to discover that, well, I'm not that perfect either. And I think there was a certain
00:18:11.340 --> 00:18:19.920
Morgana and Devin: You know, sort of understanding that in my 40s was sort of like a real game changer. That was like, oh, there's certain things. I don't have to hold on so tightly
00:18:20.760 --> 00:18:29.790
: Yeah I know for me, the thing that that I really still like the best is that I'm with somebody, I can completely be myself with
00:18:30.630 --> 00:18:39.540
: You know, I put on makeup for you guys. But generally, my hair is in a ponytail. I have no makeup on and I'm just all natural all the time.
00:18:39.990 --> 00:18:57.210
: But it's just great to be with somebody who who isn't looking and judging you. Did you lose weight, did you gain weight. You know when you get to do something about that hair. I can just be me. And as long as I'm not. I'm a pretty cheerful happy person. Anyway,
00:18:58.410 --> 00:19:04.830
00:19:07.530 --> 00:19:07.920
Morgana and Devin: Yep.
00:19:09.390 --> 00:19:12.150
Morgana and Devin: I understand that perfectly and
00:19:14.070 --> 00:19:29.160
Morgana and Devin: One of the, one of the big learning curves for me getting older, was to notice that if I am not being myself on the first date. If I feel like I have to impress or be gay or whatever.
00:19:29.850 --> 00:19:49.530
Morgana and Devin: Probably not the right person, like the first clue that there was something special about Devon, was I didn't feel any I was. I thought he was cute, but I never felt any pressure to put on any show or impress them for six hours of conversation right
00:19:49.860 --> 00:20:01.530
: Yeah, I think the mistake a lot of women over 40 make is they lead with their resume, you know, and that's just the stupidest thing to do, you know, men do not choose a woman to marry.
00:20:02.370 --> 00:20:10.470
00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:16.650
00:20:17.370 --> 00:20:28.440
: They like to win. You know, so if you're being competitive and it's all about you and your, you know, your successes, of course you want someone who's going to support your career, but you don't want to be leading with it.
00:20:29.250 --> 00:20:37.050
Morgana and Devin: What do you, what do you say to that. No, I mean, I completely agree. I mean, I think the truth of the matter is, is the world out there is challenging.
00:20:37.650 --> 00:20:46.110
Morgana and Devin: Right. And you you can't control that what you can control is give yourself the best opportunity to find somebody who's actually on your team at home.
00:20:46.890 --> 00:20:58.530
Morgana and Devin: And it's an important decision. And so part of the problem is is you know my from my own history is that when I've sort of lead with that emotional response I failed a lot
00:20:59.790 --> 00:21:07.380
Morgana and Devin: And so, as I've gotten older, it's been much more about sort of like, Okay, well, how is this where my fitting in this. And how's it working for me.
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:20.430
Morgana and Devin: And that was, that was for us, I think, an easy thing and others, we immediately had maybe not that chemical, kind of, you know, explosive volcanic thing. But what we had was a certain measure of ease
00:21:20.670 --> 00:21:21.750
00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:25.320
00:21:25.650 --> 00:21:27.090
Morgana and Devin: Beyond without question.
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:34.530
: Yeah, and so I tell people if you go out on a first date with somebody and that you're feeling that heat that is not a good sign.
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:46.800
: That's, you know that that means some part of your, your reptilian brain is getting triggered for whatever your pattern is and you're about to meet your pattern all over again. But this is not who you want to spend your life with
00:21:48.450 --> 00:22:01.320
Morgana and Devin: So let's go to mate to soul mate. How to Turn your mate to your soul name that, by the way, is the name of one of your many best selling books and what we're focusing on today. So what is that about
00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:15.480
: Well, this was the book. I wish I would have read before I got married because after we got married and we were living together I quickly discovered that I had absolutely no partnership skills.
00:22:16.170 --> 00:22:24.870
00:22:25.710 --> 00:22:34.200
: I wanted to control everything I was used. I was the queen of my domain. I was used to controlling everything and everybody everybody worked for me.
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:49.080
: And so I had no awareness that that relationship is a team sport. Now fortunately Ryan's a very patient, man. He played two to pro sports, basketball and baseball so
00:22:49.530 --> 00:22:57.960
: His whole life was athletics and he would explain to me. No, actually, sometimes you got to pass the ball. Let's see, talking about
00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:09.450
: But I realized that a sports metaphors weren't really going to do it for me because I needed to understand this, I decided to put myself on a path to become a student of love.
00:23:09.870 --> 00:23:12.690
00:23:13.080 --> 00:23:22.950
: To have a long, happy satisfying marriage. I knew we were soulmates on every measurable level, but I didn't know if I could keep us together.
00:23:23.820 --> 00:23:27.930
00:23:28.560 --> 00:23:40.560
: And and I didn't know what to do. Right. So that's how I got to writing. Turn your mate into your soulmate i i did 200 hours of interviews with the world's leading Love and Marriage experts.
00:23:41.040 --> 00:23:50.010
: And then I took everything I learned from them and I wrote tested it and then the best of what I learned is in the book. So there's actually 16 steps to it.
00:23:50.370 --> 00:24:01.470
: So it's you know how men think how to talk to a man to get anything you want from him, you know, things never to say to him, and you know, like one of the worst things you can say to your husband is
00:24:02.790 --> 00:24:10.830
: You know, I can't believe how bad I look. I can't believe my ass is sagging like this. If you start putting yourself down.
00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:28.170
: He feels bad. Why does he feel bad because men like to win. And now you're showing up and he's losing because you're making it evident that something's wrong with you. So you need to bitch and moan and complain about your body do two girlfriends, but don't do it to your husband.
00:24:30.030 --> 00:24:38.070
Morgana and Devin: Well, I would think that if you love somebody, it's simply painful to see them being self abusive like that. Right.
00:24:38.850 --> 00:24:51.870
: Yeah, no. So, you know, it's about loving yourself being responsible for your own happiness. That's another myth people go into. Oh, when I find the right man when I find the right woman I'm going to be happy.
00:24:52.590 --> 00:25:03.420
: And you're going to be exactly who you are, once you get over the being in love stage. So, you know, make yourself happy first and then when you find the right person, they become the icing on the cake.
00:25:04.860 --> 00:25:12.600
Morgana and Devin: So did your marriage because you've been married a really long time. Did your marriage hit a challenging point
00:25:12.750 --> 00:25:14.700
Morgana and Devin: And what's, what did you okay
00:25:16.020 --> 00:25:23.670
: Oh yeah, we had lots of them. The first one of the first. Well, the very, very first one was one day, I found myself like this.
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:32.100
: I don't know what I was ragging on him about and I stopped. I stopped myself and I I felt really embarrassed and I said to him,
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:43.230
00:25:43.830 --> 00:25:51.930
00:25:52.320 --> 00:26:00.030
: Now Sheila's my mother's name, she's also very bossy and overbearing but I love her to death. She's a wonderful person, but that's where I got that trait.
00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:18.030
: And Brian just cracked up laughing He totally got it. And he said, Yes. And when I get to patronize and you can call me Wayne. That was his father's name. So we found these ways to quickly go from, you know, potential world war three warfare and to making fun of ourselves.
00:26:19.890 --> 00:26:33.030
Morgana and Devin: Beautiful. And I think what's great about that is that you you're not making it about the other person. In other words, we can be self-effacing much more easily than we can by shaking our finger at the person sitting across from us.
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:37.980
00:26:38.490 --> 00:26:45.600
: I shouldn't talk to anybody like that ever and I don't anymore. But that was my natural go to, you know, another thing that came up for us early on.
00:26:45.930 --> 00:26:53.250
00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:59.100
00:26:59.550 --> 00:27:06.840
: His mother always bought him designer clothes soon as he got out of college. He made a lot of money. Money was never an issue. I grew up.
00:27:07.290 --> 00:27:18.900
: In a lower middle class home. My parents fought over money every single day I'd come home from school. The water be turned off the car will be repossessed it with fights about money all the time and
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:26.310
00:27:26.910 --> 00:27:38.460
: So now we get married. We're both in our 40s. We both have substantial incomes and resources and what's shockingly different is how we spend money.
00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:48.780
: I am a saver. I'm very frugal Brian's life of the party buy drinks for everybody will only buy the fine, you know, strength, the finest wines.
00:27:49.230 --> 00:27:59.100
: And, you know, we're out to dinner, and he's picking up the check for everybody all the time and I finally sent him one day said what you know they invited us to dinner. Why are you always picking up the check.
00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:07.800
: He said, Well, I enjoy it. It gives me great pleasure to do that. And I'm thinking to myself, but but it would be more fair if we split it.
00:28:08.100 --> 00:28:26.250
: So finally I realized I've never told him the truth about my childhood. I never told anybody about what it was like to feel poor NOW WE WERE WE poor comparatively. No, I never didn't eat. I always had shoes, but I felt for because there was never enough.
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:34.950
: So I told him the story and I said, Listen, I said we have to come up with a solution, because it's not that we can't afford
00:28:35.370 --> 00:28:43.200
: The lifestyle you're leading is I'm not comfortable with it. What can we do, so what we came up with is, we had we created three bank accounts.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:54.510
: There was mine. There was his and there was ours. We didn't police each other on the individual accounts and on the joint account, the agreement was nobody spends $500 without consulting the other
00:28:55.470 --> 00:29:06.960
: And we didn't have shared credit cards for the first 16 years. That's how long it took me to finally realize that I was with somebody who is financially responsible
00:29:07.620 --> 00:29:20.430
: That's what was key for me it wasn't who was making more money. It was I needed to trust that even if he had 100% control over all the money he's, he was financially responsible, which he is
00:29:21.330 --> 00:29:32.370
Morgana and Devin: And in the meanwhile, I love the separation of money because it just removes the drama. It's what he spends is no longer your business and you don't have to worry about it because you know what you have
00:29:32.820 --> 00:29:36.480
00:29:38.070 --> 00:29:44.790
00:29:45.090 --> 00:29:55.020
: So he'd come home from the mall and like, Oh, I got the same your pants for you know 75% off at Saks and I bought you this full price Armani jacket. And I was like,
00:29:55.260 --> 00:30:10.590
: Oh my god you spend $2,000 on a blazer and of course then I was afraid to wear it. I still have it. I won't give it away, even though it doesn't fit and it's out of style. Just the fact that somebody spent $2,000 on a jacket. It was like the biggest waste of money on me.
00:30:15.810 --> 00:30:21.150
Morgana and Devin: It just makes me hear my father say thou shalt not pay retail the 13th commandment.
00:30:21.630 --> 00:30:34.590
: Yes. Yes, I heard that one myself. But in terms of turning your mate into your soulmate really the place to start from is, let's say, you know, let's make up a scenario, you've been together, eight years.
00:30:35.280 --> 00:30:41.400
: You're starting to fight about a lot of different things. You've got one foot out the door, thinking the grass is greener somewhere.
00:30:41.670 --> 00:30:47.550
: Let me tell you about the grass being greener because here's some stats. Most people don't know. The first one is everybody knows
00:30:48.030 --> 00:30:58.980
: 50% of first marriages end in divorce. Everybody knows that. What most people don't know is that 64% of second marriages and 71% of third marriages end in divorce.
00:30:59.520 --> 00:31:06.660
: Now why is that you didn't marry the exact same person three times. But you were the exact same person in all three marriages.
00:31:07.410 --> 00:31:18.390
: Right so marriage is a lot about, you know, I don't like to say compromise as much as coming up with creative solutions like what we do with our money was a creative solution.
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:30.990
: So when you're at this breaking point. You know, in the relationship and by breaking point. It has to be the usual stuff. If there's addiction.
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:44.370
: Or bad behavior or any kind of abuse, then go get professional counseling, you know, don't try to save that with what I'm about to tell you. But if it's just the usual stuff, start by writing them a love letter.
00:31:45.360 --> 00:31:55.050
: Like, I want you to go back and remember all the reasons you fell in love. In the first place, all the things you find wonderful and charming about them, even if it takes a long time.
00:31:55.590 --> 00:32:04.320
: Right then, the most beautiful gushing love letter ever and then put it in some kind of beautiful, I love you. Just because card.
00:32:04.770 --> 00:32:14.700
: And put it somewhere where they're going to find it. When you're not around. That's a good starting point right then, if there are sex lives on the rocks and nothing's happened there.
00:32:15.780 --> 00:32:25.920
: There's, there's something that's going to fix it. But it's really scary. And here's what it is you have to decide together to do something that you both find life threatening.
00:32:26.550 --> 00:32:39.060
: So it could be jumping out of an airplane bungee jumping whitewater river rafting, you know, Level seven rapids, or whatever, a roller coaster scary movies.
00:32:39.630 --> 00:32:50.220
: But go and do something together where you're both going to be scared out of your mind and then immediately after surviving that go to a hotel and have sex.
00:32:51.060 --> 00:33:02.670
: The reason for this is that when you have a shared experience of survival together, it kicks off all the hormones in your brain that had you fall in love in the first place.
00:33:04.170 --> 00:33:16.500
: It's there's actually a psychological term for it, which I can't remember right now, but it really works. You know, conversely, you can also do this if you're single and dating and you really want somebody to fall for you.
00:33:17.310 --> 00:33:27.060
: You can do this as well. Just know that you may not know them well enough to know if they're if they have the capacity to be a good partner.
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:34.410
Morgana and Devin: Yeah, I would not ever lead relationship selection through sex. First, the
00:33:36.120 --> 00:33:37.050
Morgana and Devin: First, yeah.
00:33:37.470 --> 00:33:47.550
Morgana and Devin: So you've been talking a lot about sort of mindset of people and how to change it. Is there sort of like a very first step, or is it all sort of like creative solutions to sort of like
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:50.220
Morgana and Devin: Reframing ideas in your mind.
00:33:50.250 --> 00:33:59.460
: Yes, and and the basic principle that I go by something I call Wabi sabi love and so Wabi sabi is this ancient Japanese aesthetic.
00:33:59.850 --> 00:34:12.660
: That honors all things, old, worn imperfect and impermanent and it seeks to find beauty and perfection and imperfection. So imagine that this is an ancient priceless Ming vase.
00:34:13.140 --> 00:34:23.430
: And there's a long crooked crack down the vase. The Japanese would put the broken vase on a pedestal and then they would shine a spotlight on the craft.
00:34:24.570 --> 00:34:36.270
: So Wabi sabi love is about finding beauty and perfection and imperfection. And I'll tell you a story that totally illustrates this. And this is the story of my friends, Jerry and Diane
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:50.730
: He was a psychiatrist. She's a psychologist, he was 30 years older than her when they married 30 years ago. And when they got married. Diane discovered that Jerry had an addiction.
00:34:51.690 --> 00:35:06.540
: Jerry was addicted to poppy seed bagels and every single morning. Jerry would get up before Diane he'd gone the kitchen. He'd slices poppy seed bagel and it would sprinkle dozens, a little black seeds all over her white tile floor.
00:35:07.230 --> 00:35:17.670
: And then later in the morning because Jerry was older than her. She would get on her floor on our hands and knees with a wet paper towel and she would wipe up all the little black seeds.
00:35:18.600 --> 00:35:33.780
: Now this went on for years, but one morning, she was on the floor, wiping up the seeds and she was in a really grouchy mood and she had this thought. And the thought was, I wonder what it would take to never have to do this again.
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:40.920
00:35:41.040 --> 00:35:41.640
Morgana and Devin: Hmm.
00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:53.970
: And from that day on every morning as she wiped up the seeds her heart would fill with love, because the seeds nail men that she had another day to spend with Jerry
00:35:56.160 --> 00:35:58.170
Morgana and Devin: That's beautiful, and tearing up that is
00:35:58.200 --> 00:36:09.750
: Ya know, and that's what Wabi sabi love is she didn't say, Jerry. We've got to talk, Jerry. You've got to change. She never talked to Gary about it. She just reframed it she just
00:36:10.170 --> 00:36:28.950
: Decided to make up a new story because that's all we're doing all the time. Anyway, she made up a new story about what these seats meant and I want. I want you to know that Jerry just died three weeks ago at the age of 95 100% blind and still addicted to poppy seed bagels.
00:36:29.910 --> 00:36:30.930
Morgana and Devin: And she was grateful.
00:36:31.950 --> 00:36:33.270
00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:47.580
: I think she started eating the bagels, too. But you know, that's what we want to do. We want to see all the behaviors that we're judging you know like I'm Brian and I had this toothpaste issue.
00:36:48.600 --> 00:36:55.050
00:36:55.800 --> 00:37:05.640
: And God you know he's he's crunched my toothpaste, and then I call them into the bathroom. It's like honey. Come here. Let me show you the proper way to get toothpaste out of to
00:37:05.910 --> 00:37:14.490
: You start at the bottom and then you go like this and then you roll it up and then when it's all done. You throw it away. That's how you get toothpaste out of it, too.
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.970
00:37:18.510 --> 00:37:28.950
: I tried that a couple of times. Of course, it never worked. And I started thinking, every time I'd see what he did to the toothpaste tube, I'd have really negative thoughts about him. I know it's stupid. I know it was Eddie.
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:41.400
: But it bothered me. And I started thinking you like what would be the Wabi sabi solution to the toothpaste and that will maybe I'll get two tubes of toothpaste. There'll be his and hers.
00:37:41.820 --> 00:37:49.230
00:37:49.710 --> 00:38:02.220
: And I decided to talk to it. And I said, okay, toothpaste. What's good about you. I need to know what's good about you and the toothpaste. Talk to me and said, Thank God you married a man who brushes his teeth.
00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:15.450
: That's all it took. Now does he still do that. Yes, but he you know he does brushes teeth several times a day, and he still has all of us to just made up a new story.
00:38:18.240 --> 00:38:37.320
Morgana and Devin: I think that love is the ability to just look at your partner with rose colored glasses and find charm and look for charm. We can we actually have so much power over how we look at the person
00:38:37.470 --> 00:38:38.880
Morgana and Devin: These are my. There you go.
00:38:39.060 --> 00:38:41.160
Morgana and Devin: Very beautiful. Yes.
00:38:41.730 --> 00:38:44.460
00:38:44.670 --> 00:38:54.210
: Now, yeah. At the University of Buffalo. There was a a woman who studied couples who consciously choose to wear rose colored glasses.
00:38:54.750 --> 00:39:08.460
: And what they found was that these couples had longer happier, more satisfying marriages and the reason is by wearing rose colored glasses. They were always looking for what's right, instead of looking for what's wrong.
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:32.970
Morgana and Devin: I believe that Devon makes it very easy for me to find what's right, you know, keep its life. Life is fun. Um, his foibles are adorable. To me, he says, I can have all the cats in the world as long as he can have as many guitars, as he wants. That's my negotiation.
00:39:33.060 --> 00:39:34.350
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.860
Morgana and Devin: So now we have too many cats and too many guitars.
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:40.410
Morgana and Devin: Never too many guitars, what do you
00:39:41.790 --> 00:39:42.000
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:53.730
: Wish I wish I could get back on right now. We only have two cats, and I would very much like to have two cats and a puppy, but I'm losing that battle.
00:39:54.270 --> 00:39:57.210
Morgana and Devin: Ah, well let me know if you like gingers.
00:39:58.140 --> 00:39:59.250
00:39:59.340 --> 00:39:59.850
Morgana and Devin: Okay.
00:39:59.910 --> 00:40:01.770
00:40:01.770 --> 00:40:02.460
00:40:04.350 --> 00:40:11.730
Morgana and Devin: I keep intending to trap rescue and release or yeah trap neuter and release. But I keep dropping the aren't the end
00:40:11.820 --> 00:40:12.750
00:40:16.110 --> 00:40:16.830
Morgana and Devin: Exactly.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:18.540
Morgana and Devin: Um,
00:40:20.520 --> 00:40:27.630
Morgana and Devin: Let's see, Devon. Do you have any more questions. Well, no. I mean, we could do we could do this for hours. But I think we're probably closing on time.
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:37.020
Morgana and Devin: So, so in terms of your book that we've been sort of discussing a little bit around. Is there, is there one tool that sort of like, oh, this is a great place to start.
00:40:37.980 --> 00:41:01.050
: Well, writing the love letter i think is a good place to start. And you know, I would say my favorite poem is probably the thing to always remember, and this is something by Sam key and Sam says we come to love, not to find a perfect person, but to learn to love an imperfect person perfectly
00:41:02.520 --> 00:41:21.450
Morgana and Devin: Oh, that's beautiful. That's that is perfect. So, we will have a link to your book in our show notes. Everybody should go out and get the book. Whether you are in a relationship or looking to get into a relationship and you just want to love better. Yeah.
00:41:22.020 --> 00:41:34.410
: Yeah yeah and it's it's really not that hard. It's just we were never trained. We don't know what to do. But there are ways you know men and women have different brains and we think differently and respond differently.
00:41:34.710 --> 00:41:41.040
00:41:41.370 --> 00:41:42.870
00:41:43.290 --> 00:41:45.000
Morgana and Devin: Easily. It's not even a debate.
00:41:45.210 --> 00:41:46.050
00:41:46.350 --> 00:41:46.650
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:49.440
Morgana and Devin: Thank you so much.
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:51.240
00:41:57.930 --> 00:41:59.070
Morgana and Devin: Fantastic.
00:41:59.220 --> 00:42:01.710
00:42:01.740 --> 00:42:06.570
Morgana and Devin: Thank you.