Bringing Intimacy Back, September 24, 2020

Bringing Intimacy Back with Dr April Brown and Dr Kelly
Show Headline: 
Bringing Intimacy Back
Show Sub Headline: 
with Dr. April Brown and guest Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem

Bringing Intimacy Back with Dr. April Brown and guest Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem

Guest, Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem

Guest Name: 
Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem
Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem
Guest Biography: 
Dr. Talal H. is an award-winning marriage counselor and researcher. Dr. Talal is the author of the acclaimed book, Infidelity: The Best Worst Thing that Could Happen to Your Marriage. Dr. Talal is the founder of the Infidelity Counseling Center. On the show, Dr. Talal will provide the audience with essential information to broaden their understating of infidelity, as a construct as well as its causes and impact.

Bringing Intimacy Back

Bringing Intimacy Back with Dr April Brown and Dr Kelly
Show Host: 
Dr April Brown

As we look around in this world today, it seems we are becoming more disconnected from one another, even though we have the technology to connect to more and more people than ever before. Furthermore, the lack of intimacy (in its many forms) is one of the top three reasons why relationships struggle and many times end.

Thus the Bringing Intimacy Back talk show is a show dedicated to inspire, enlighten, and encourage intimate connections. This show provides an engaging atmosphere to discuss and demonstrate ways to enhance intimacy in one’s personal relationships with significant others, families, friends, Higher Power, and oneself. The show will discuss intimate connections in many different forms, such as sex, communication, emotional, physical, health, and spiritual. In fact, research has shown that as we increase our intimate connection with ourselves, our Higher Power, and others.  It will help decrease the conflicts, anxiety, and depression in our lives.


Increasing intimacy for all has become Dr. April’s mission. The mission statement of the show is to provide an atmosphere to discuss and demonstrate ways to increase closeness in one’s personal relationships with significant others, families, friends, Higher Power, and oneself. Therefore, Dr. April started in February 2018 to host her own new Radio/TV Show Bringing Intimacy Back where she and other intimacy experts will provide resources and tips on increasing intimacy in all types of relationships. Audience members will be able to transform their relationships through relationship experts’ insights, useful and practical resources, role-playing, and audience participation. The show’s goal is to show its audience members that intimacy can be alive and real in the relationships we desired.

Weekly Show
BBS Station 1
12:00 pm PT
12:55 pm PT
Show Transcript: 

welcome to the bring intimacy back show where is real on this show we believe that intimately connecting with yourself your significant other children family business Network community and your higher power can elevate your life to work towards a positive future that's we explore intimate topic inspiring life stories spiritually and insightful tips on strengthening relationship this show is hosted by dr. April a Florida licensed mental health counselor relationship and intimacy therapist board certified telemental health counselor National Certified counselor and a certified sex therapist she is the owner of vacation counseling and Cape Coral therapist and the creator of the internet connections newsletter for more information about dr. April services and the bring intimacy back show please visit bring intimacy back. Com check out tasks shows on Apple ID
Spotify YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast now let's get this episode of the bringing intimacy back show started because we share with you the secret power to intimacy to create a life you love or love the life you create now here's your host dr. April
welcome to the bring intimacy back show where intimacy is real what are Today Show we're talking about something that is when starting to seep out into our lives a lot lately especially things that I've been seeing on social media but also and doing counseling and it's maybe because that we're all stuck together and we're all trying to figure out what works and what's not what am I talking about well I'm talking about infidelity today's topic is about the anime of infidelity or what we can say in layman's term I can't move on from a cheating partner where do I get from here I hear that from a lot of different people on sometimes it therapist is working with clients what do we do so I researched and research and guess what I found an award-winning counselor and researcher who is a leading expert in the field of infidelity recovery in fact he is cancer
The Godfather of modern infidelity dr. Hala Al feeling how are you doing this morning and I'm really excited to share some of my knowledge with your audience I just to let you know that he has made it to Friday people or talk later about the book but it's called infidelity the best thing I can happen to your marriage and the he's also the founder of a recall infidelity Counseling Center where he does a lot of research and she was in clinical work on focusing on infidelity and the other great thing about him is that he's also training other therapist to work with Infidel he's created a therapy cause systemic Affair recovery therapy which is a method of infidelity counseling that is helped hundreds of couples navigate the challenges on how do you heal
Johnny Depp Affair he's an international lecture and speakers. I'm so glad that he's here and he is here to share with us a variety of different tools and techniques and what we can do when we have a cheating partner or beef in cheated on or we're working with people who have cheated on so again but before we start a kind of want to know do you know I'm just getting to know you and stuff but how has this last few months of her bed and I shouldn't even say how is that impacting and how are you doing I'm doing okay to me I always find it it's important to when you deal with some kind of a stressful event opal stressful event as to take the time not just only to be safe but also I'm getting a lot of self-care and appreciate the good things in your life and try to find a silver lining so for me I think you know a lot even though this heaven
acted my ability to travel and train of a therapist if it it forced me to create an opportunity to develop and all my version of the training so you know they say every cloud has a psychic this is an opportunity to Kenneth Street Focus expand new ideas and Christina things of clinical aspects you know this impacted I've been seeing a lot of people who are holding because they're dealing with infidelity disclosure I think being confined within the same space a lot of people in a relationship is on struggle and an opportunity to actually do something about these issues was it started this field
well you know why I did not take the traditional route to ask most counselors you know how did you choose counseling they say we can do I had trouble with somebody help me along the way I don't want to pass it Forward obviously I do believe counseling has an intrinsic value in terms of yes this is something that brings a lot of joy and very Warden to do as a profession I ended up choosing counseling because I've always had interest in human behavior in general my undergraduate training was actually in anthropology which I think imma see that the big patterns of human behavior but also the zoom lens on individual human behavior student I thought to be work-related for suits internship so I was a student and one of them was with a local County Mental Health Services that was a caseworker for clients are dealing with severe mental health issues
I felt that to you know I I I discovered that I have this innate capacity for connecting with people and disabilities actually help them sort through out the struggles that they have in their life I believe you tell them generate insights and come up with Concrete Solutions to go to to resolve their problems doing graduate training and matching family therapy and later on doctorate in marriage therapy couple rings that was because they're difficult right for me I was because I feel like it suited for my skill-set I like the energy I like the challenge but also I think it's more rewarding for me as a clinician's to work with couples because the impact that you accomplished will go with couples
how people feel better about themselves individually but also helped the whole family and the kids if they have kids so I feel like going to pack that I make it's it's magnified when I work with couples
Ida focus on the good couples are still there's a lot of things you can focus on why did you decide to specialize on one of the most difficult things that couples smoking is infidelity are some people who come in for a prevention or real premarital counseling but most of the times couples are coming in because they're in a crisis they waited too long for things escalate to the point where they actually needing help when I began to realize when I began to have my private practice working exclusively with couples is that the majority of the clients when a crisis because they're dealing with either at past infidelity that have been long time ago that was not resolved or a recent infidelity and so I've always kind of been the type that fast do you always like to take a challenge
part of it is that when I began to look at my clinical toolbox look at all these tools that accumulated throughout the years I realized I'm not the tool box that exists and the field are good enough to work with me because none of them were tailor-made for infidelity so as they see his mother for the convention right I thought you might have this opportunity and maybe I can begin to God on my ideas and thoughts and I can actually come up with a treatment approach that will help them during this difficult time I'm a therapist therapy which came first with it the the book cuz you said you got the dog here information and that came first said the book actually was came after that that the model was developed right because because to me that's the next step is that when you're actually come up with him when I leave if we can or when you ask
we come up with that new finding is the next step is to share it with others and I wrote the book to make to to give clients an opportunity to understand that infidelity doesn't have to be a traumatic event that will destroy the rest of your life that there is hope healing whether it's about repairing the relationship or getting individually and there is a blueprint that people need to follow in order for them to get from point A to point B okay and I am going to start it up with we keep saying the word infidelity and sell to make sure that the audience and you and I are on the same page what is your can you do provide a very good definition of infidelity in the buck in the book guys call the best thing that can happen to your married what is your definition of side-by-side the best worst thing that can happen in your marriage I'm what is your definition of infidelity
felt so I'll start with this I think it's very important for us to be aware what terminology we use when we talked about the issue of infidelity weather has conditions and even for the clients who are dealing with best did the first puzzle that I have to solve is how do you define infidelity right when is infidelity because it's going to mean something different for each couple because people come from different type of backgrounds different type of different type of relationships not all relationships are monogamous there are some relationship with people who are in open marriages or polyamory write those guys dealing with reality to we need to come up with a definition Bell works for everybody right and the problem that I found is that in the literature and whatever treatment models that has been in existence all the ways that we're defining infidelity is limited space on headphone Norma bias meaning that it's only designed for specific type of relationships
sell my definition of Delhi comes from my belief that we all have a capacity to live alone and fulfill around emotional and sexual needs can we do it short but it's a quality-of-life issues can I survive on TOEFL sure I can but I'm missing out on a lot right so life is more fulfilling when you share it with others who can help before some of those emotional sexual memes which means that all relationship should operate like a Business Partnership where there is a clear contract that specify how many partners we have in this relationship is it when is it too is a 20 what are the emotional and sexual needs that we expect to be fulfilled in this relationship by those Partners at what extent those needs fulfillment is exclusive meaning is just for these people in this relationship and nobody else right so this makes infidelity what infidelity becomes a breach a conscious breach-of-contract of exclusivity that you have
Partners in the relationship it is many times you Outsource those me that you have said that are exclusive to my partner to somebody else outside of the apartments in the relationship this gives you a wide range of way to Define infidelity so I put this to Jose Ramos example if we're used watching ponography for some couples and Son relationship they might be okay with it then for them it might be actually had told for intimacy and other relationship it seem as infidelity it's based on the relationship contract that they have so they have a contract to say you know what I don't I'm I'm expecting all your sexual needs where there is arousal or satisfaction to be meth exclusively by me watching ponography in the stands would be a violation of a contract definite sense and have some couples may be lets our people may be listening and said thanks himself why I never really signed a contract we never discussed it
great comment so this contract that okay so then forced to live in the day in age were sometimes we don't really take the important steps to actually clarify those expectation from our partners now why I said contractor doesn't mean it's actually something that we have to write them sometimes it's implied expectation right and some other times it's an issue of Life expecting from you it is always important for people in the new or an old relationship to continuously make that stuff clear because your partner is not a mind-reader and even if sometimes you have a break sometimes a contract was strange because the contract itself is unrealistic or it's not helping contract
and I'm glad she's even put that in the sense of the contract was not able to be mad because it was unrealistic you no contact with things in their head and they don't want their partner to have lunch with any person even though a lot of networking in the Friday I think that's that that's a great example and then Timmy you know if that that that definition of fidelity allowed me the flexibility to the clients when they're coming into town to you they're asking your opinion as a therapist what do you call this right and I'll give you the classic example you know you have a couple your work when I don't say why you're here one person says while I'm here because I did something stupid or because I did something inappropriate to ask other person why you're here while we're here because this person cheated on me now if it's actually something inappropriate or something minor and you hold it infidelity
then you just exaggerated on minor problem but it's actually infidelity and and you call the something you know mine or something stupid then you just minimized a big problem either way you're alienating one of your clients which means that you cannot really move forward because we have to agree what is it that you're calling this problem because that's going to determine help notice except when
that happened many times that couples are not connected
and that is really important you know this shows about intimacy is about people connecting what if one is minimizing different pages that you know they were already in different ages before infidelity happened now and it's really happened there for sure going to be in in a different pages and have more difficulty connecting and seeing each other's perspective going to take a short break and then when we come back we're going to get into the link to the meeting bones of infidelity and talk about different ways for the betrayer the person is Unfaithful and Ferb couples that were working with this topic
during this difficult time that we are all facing many people are in need of someone to talk to when option is speaking to a therapist to express your anxieties if you're feeling isolated or just need someone that will listen and help you with coping skills to get through
dr. April Brown is now accepting new clients and is working with her existing clients through distance video counseling the services are through a secure online HIPAA based practice management platform called Simple practice this technology can provide a secure two-way interactive video counseling session over the internet
for more information about video counseling please email dr. April Brown at info at dr. April Brown
dot-com or you may call 239-565-6921 thank you and remember we are all in this together
play welcome back I'm understood say we've been talkin about infidelity and we've been talking with a leading expert dr. Allison ostling and the sense of dealing with infidelity and as we were just talking about he was mentioning that sometimes just disconnect of infidelity there's think that maybe couples are disconnecting prior to this so I'm curious in before we get to that you need a bunch of infidelity what do you think really believe by infidelity does happen
I think that this is again one of the most important questions to ask couples usually have after the discovery of infidelity and this is the questions that all commissions and I've been searching for for an answer for their is this mess about why infidelity happen you're a Savage person or the clinician I was punishing my if it only happened a lot of time stay well people cheat because they're not having their relationship or their you know I'll be satisfied with their partner now relationship issues is one of the leading causes of infidelity but it's not the only one they are individual factors that could lead infidelity and bear are socio-cultural factors that lead to infidelity
add and thought about the individual factors we all have seen those relationship while we look at it and when we find on infidelity happened we scratch our head we don't get it I don't get it there compatible they seem to be good together and I'll get some have a great partner a wire they strung out of their relationship sometimes it really happened because an individual issue that that Faith was dealing with that has nothing to do with the relationship is divisible factors related to mental health and a game just because somebody has his label last night's cleaner doesn't mean they're going to be unfaithful it just means they don't have a higher probability of a common individual issue is people who deal with personality disorder, anxiety in my practice books with narcissistic personality disorder and somebody who is a narcissist part of the Hallmark of the symptoms as this constant need for attention so even though they might have a partner who is giving them the appropriate attention that can be given in that relationship is not going to be good enough
they wanted from multiple sources but also a narcissist that somebody who feel that the unique and special I don't have to play by the same rules of their Partners play with which means that they might allow himself to you no more Partnerships because there's a special also folks who struggle with sex addiction or hypersexuality the nature of their symptoms as wept it's this hypersexuality impulsivity so they tend to have higher prevalence rates after infidelity people who struggle with substance abuse in dependency issues and Ashley the research shows there is a lot of people who fantasize about infidelity but they don't do it because they worry about the consequences know if you put this into perspective off substance abuse independence date somebody might cross those lines are fantasies because when you have substance abuse issues you have impaired judgement poor impulse control and I could easily cause somebody to cross those lines
as far as socio-cultural factors that lead to infidelity this is something that researchers and clinicians need to pay better attention to and there are a lot of things outside of the individual lationships factors that can lead to infidelity or increases likelihood of cultural belief system as well as occupational stressors systems of this way we all belong to some kind of a macro or micro cultures right macroculture is off you know ethnicity and nationality religion microculture could be the type of jobs we have or our family origin right and if you're part of the cultural group in which the belief system or the cultural norms doesn't frown upon infidelity or C infidelity as a sign of masculinity you're more likely you're going to engage in this Behavior simply because your hand and give you a permission to do so
and this is especially important if we if we talkin about the family of origin that's why I was trying my clinicians when you ask him when he working with doubles with felony need to ask what kind of relationship was modeled to them and how much of this related to how you grew up and how infidelity was handled in the household a cute crop it as far as occupational factors there is this website called Ashley Madison I don't know if you're familiar with it right at 4 for the listeners or not it's a website where people are interested in finding an affair that's what they go to in 2014 there was a data breach that a locked researchers to look at the different type of categories of jobs that people have learned this website and they found out that specific type of jobs and to have higher prevalence rates of infidelity so that I encountered just because somebody has his job doesn't even going to be unfaithful it just needs to have a higher probability a common when is a folks who work in nursing firefighters police officer
at First Responders and what are these guys have in common well they all have long crazy hours. Shift was the last rest in the relationship they usually you have to deal with a lot of trauma that we don't deal with a civilians but also people who work in these jobs in order for them to survive they have to have a strong bond with their work Partners needed for their survival and their partner probably somebody who's also have a strained relationship because of the limitations of the job right you got all my stuff together or boundaries can flourish and to infidelity and mushroom sexual just one example of job category that could increase as one risk for having if you're not in their life
yeah and so I agree with you I always act my Couples from you know tell me your experience of relationship they sell going up and they see a healthy relationship and stuff and it's interesting that you mention that but sometimes if a person is seeing someone had affairs or cheated on their mom or whatever the case maybe they say they don't want to be do that but yes stress hits and things happen in their life they somehow tend to do that so I totally agree with you in that aspect and I'll do the same with different
confessions and many of those professions are also professions where there are always helping others but they're not taking care of themselves which it leads to self care the mental health you know which of course leads to those other things I'm the great thing that you do out like this and and his but which is a really good thing about how this can happen
so yeah yeah I really am thank you for sharing that information so we just talked about why it happens and then your book is titled saying about the book the best worst thing that happened that could happen to your marriage so we just talked about it and we just said about the worst part is this damn Fidelity why do you say something worse so
it is it's it's a hard concept for people to wrap their minds around them a lot of times people think like you know during the title is it what does that mean you advocating for infidelity know you don't want a relationship issues there is a silver lining of something as awful as infidelity and I always give the example of heart attacks something of this way we all know that we need to exercise and eat healthy but not all of us actually stick to those expectations we all know that he better eat healthy but once something bad had actually pause and say okay so how bad do I want to live right this is my opportunity to actually make those changes right or you know some people just going to say nothing like I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing right opportunity wake-up call to see if something is wrong in your life so the same thing happens with a relationship as well
individual issues a lot of people know that they have individual problem and relationship problems they need to take care of a lot of times they don't take the time and the resources it could be because they don't think it's bad enough when infidelity happens this is like the biggest wake-up call that take something is seriously wrong in your relationship right to look at the individual relationship as well as supposed to cultural factors of infidelity and rise up to the challenge to have a new healthy relationship and I can bring it back to the heart attack the people who actually take that seriously they would you notice that they would eat better and exercise better than any other point of their life because they know you know I got a new lease on my life
incel with infidelity it is to be very traumatic when it happens to us and for the culture many times in our culture it's like you leave but is that the right thing to do and how does this trauma can be at Lester change the Catalyst for change because to me I need to find Healing from infidelity not going to try to lie to have to rebuild a relationship that's certainly one potential outcome but the goal is what is to not let this devastating event Define the rest of your life which means that either he'll together and rebuild our relationship you better than I was before or he'll individual me how can it be a catalyst for change it's either going to be a catalyst to allow you to fix our relationship issues that should have been fix all this time or could be tails for a chance to realize that this relationship is just not going to go anywhere and now is the time to move forward and get the relationship that you just driven have
West wanted right and that's why that's what the process is designed to help guide people to an event list and what happened why it happened since the damage and figure out what's the best healing Journey for them by bringing this back into you know that this cultural expectation when when it happens you leave you've you've actually embarrassed research when you do this when you survey people what do you do what would you do if your partner cheated on most people say I would leave I would Mustang the relationship but the reason they say that because you're asking them a hypothetical and in that moment of hypothetical the only thing that you can imagine is what I heard the Betrayal now when it actually happens yes you have to pay a number hurt in the Betrayal but you also have these conflicting feelings by love this person we had a good life together right and that's why people position about should we work in a relationship or not changes when it happened in reality versus a hypothetical and that's why I always my clients to say whatever decision you make
not the relationship it cannot be based on West decide to tell you to do it has to be a decision that you can live with and how you outlined it in the foot because and also in your practicing and what you do because sometimes if you just leave without getting all that information many people are stuck like I don't know what happened what why this and that is so the process that you have set up allows the company and that it that is like that the first part of the book is this message off white why should you process infidelity right because for me it's not about well this thing you know going through the process you're doing it because you have to choose repairing the relationship know you owe it to yourself and your partner to figure out how did we get to this point so we don't find yourself in the same situation regardless of whether or not
we stay together a lot of times where people walk away from an infidelity Institute they did not process and they move on and they enter the new relationship with this baggage right so whoever is dealing with all this stuff that they should have been dealing with after the discovery of fidelity specifically as it comes there to two issues depressed when you know infidelity happens many times it's like a stab in the heart and it has hope and if you don't really work on those holes to heal can you bring that into the next relationship so definitely sometimes I notice the beginning topless get stuck on well
who's at fault here to get stuck in that you don't see that too in the beginning
it in order to help people understand what happened we need to get the story of the fear which is part of the milestones and the recovery process right but there are a lot of relationship with infidelity was caused by relationship issues right how do you bring this up how do you address it because sometimes it sounds like you're blaming the Betrayed partner for the farrier sing well it's your fault you know because you're a better partner they wouldn't have done this is how I navigated for me as a clinician and as a person and I share this with my client I stay as far as I'm concerned there's nothing that justify or excuse his infidelity but it doesn't mean we should not understand the reason that led to it because everything we do good or bad happens for a reason right and even on the situations weather in Fidelity happen a hundred percent because of relationship issues with her it's compatibility with Hearst Communications what are the case might be right
the Unfaithful is 100% responsible for how they acted on this relationship dysfunction because in most cases and I say most cases because there's always a chance the exceptions you have options if you have even if you have the worst partner in the universe at the end of the day take them to counseling so we can fix this relationship issues or so you know what thanks this is not working out for me before I cross that line right so there is a way to address that accountability but would not minimizing the responsibility of Betfair
and that's also outlines a lot of stuff in his book and my great thing about your butt if that'd out it has like a stop by self process
and how do we go about dealing with affairs from the betrayer from also the person is having their Affair and stuff have you found that this process of healing how do how long do people take in this process or in just briefly share a little bit about the process the process again why isn't the sound like said that they need a mother invention is when I realized there is no process for me as a parent is in this is somebody who went to school for years right it felt like I was doing therapy and counseling in the dark the process was developed based on my observation of the clinical areas where people get stuck so when I begin jogging on my observational realize that all my clients regardless of what kind of background relationship they have on them together they all used to get stuck in very specific areas and those specific areas that kind of set the stage for the milestones
and again to my sons were designed to help people to deal with infidelity from the point of Discovery all the way to end off what are we going to do about it and how we move forward so there are several months milestones the first one is setting the stage for healing and the clinical objectives in back also known as what to make sure that we're helping create the optimal environment for Recovery Care a lot of times when people discovering Fidelity they make a lot of mistakes reaction a mistakes because they didn't consult with somebody so also be blasting the business for everybody else on social media or going after the third parties and often times right now with the only one in that car problem and it's hard like me at that affects people actually have the focus off of you know I'm bad that first really helped create an environment
add a second milestone which is the most important Milestone is getting the story of that fair and I would have to say this is where people get stuck at 4 years right and they are too much or the story does not make sense in order for the New York to actually figure out what they're going to do after that fair they have to understand what exactly happened and why it happened because that's going to you know what they stayed where we going to do from that point the third Milestone is acknowledged make up a story and then a week later the person ask another question about the story again and this and I did not hold you know
great great thanks
common mistakes that people do is that they either you know or
flatouts being dishonest about what happened and having to write a reason or that they are giving the truth by a dropper right you know if every week I'm going to give you a piece which is more damaging than lying in the first place if the story if you take the time with your clients to do the story properly and you ask the right questions and you got them through the process and you get to the story that makes sense to everybody right then we have to make the commitment that we are done we visiting that a lot of times when this questioning every week it happens because the stories aren't adding up right where are the you know or ask the right question is not being asked so that's why I say you look in my client to say you know I don't care how many sessions weed we spend on this we do it until it makes sense that everybody but once we get to that point we have to all make the agreement that we are done with the interrogation part because that's just wasted energy and also I ask that this would be the time or we destroy any text evidence that we have so that we don't ruminate and obsess over it
rank weapons but this can only happen if people really say you know what ya based on what we know about the history about all the sequence of events about who discovered the story makes sense as logical now we can move on to the next Park in do you also agree that sometimes some details don't need to happen you know the sexual fighter also X or 8 times you know doesn't matter since this is actually so so not only people you're dealing with family are not sure how much they share is it is important therapist usually anxious about this you have some therapists who say who cares because if you share details it's just don't to traumatize people and you have something important I think it's somewhere in the middle I think the main element of the story need to be shared so so here's the tool actually I give my clients to say okay
we don't have access to 24/7 recording of everything that happened and even if we did that Second Story how long has a counselor to ask them questions to help establish daquan7 Advanced Motors right and unless put this story to the test of what you discovered and what do you know about the history of the relationship and what you know about each other but also as the Betrayed you're more than welcome to ask anything that you want about the infidelity but before you get the answer to that question we have to make a case for how is the answer to this question is going to help you understand what happened and how is the answer that question is going to help you understand why it happened if you able to pitch a case for it that it's a good question to ask if you cannot then it's probably go to generate a necessary thoughts an image in your head how does this translate in realitate so let's say you have a couple who is dealing with a sexual infidelity right
is it important to ask what kind of sexual positions that they were involved between the betrayed and that between that third party and then faithful you know what I asked this question some people say yes and some people say no I say both all right so what is it appropriate for a so if we happen because of relationship issue compatibility one person is vanilla and of the person on the other side of cake because I want to know what is this person is providing that's you can look like in a relationship but even if you even if there is a case for it it needs to be done at the lowest level of detail we don't need technicolor's right now for username example of the sexual infidelity have been because of individual reason of sex addiction does it really matter what kind of sex positions they were in love them not really because it's not about compatibility it's about addiction piece alphabet again for me is is making sure what what what what people are and oftentimes don't understand is that when the Betrayed asking that question there is a legitimate need
make a question sometimes they just asking the wrong question and if you have something for him and they will ask if he'll be able to get the piece that was missing for them and you can help them come up with a different question. We'll address that okay thank you so much for sharing that so I'm not going to give away the whole book because you guys need to go out there and buy it has many other steps on their the one thing of course he's been also talking about is 4 cups / counselors so you also have a therapy called the systematic Affair recovery therapy he tell us a little bit about that and why you decided to help other counselors become more informed with great affected tools to work with couples who have infidelity issues so systematic Affair recovery therapy was developed initially to help me do my job successfully because like I said when I began seeing my car
can figure out that so there is no TaylorMade pools I fucking don't you know he can be the first one to actually blessed to give that to him and do it so once I began to to do my presentation because lot of people know I work with couples in to consultation and I realized that a lot of therapists are just not even there clues about some of those two major mistakes that being made into therapeutic setting so hated that need for me to actually make that process you no more formalized specially when I realized that a lot of therapists are thirsting for that knowledge they don't let you know and one thing that I came up there in one that why do my presentation I always ask people how many of you in this room have dealt with infidelity directly indirectly all the hands gets raised up and my phone's question how many of you recall taking a graduate-level course to prepare you with infidelity disclosure and it's like none that's a problem especially when it was a major issue that it had devastating impact so that kind of War
that point of time I already had what they called a practice space evidence approach I knew what the steps were based on my work with my clients right but I wanted to give clinicians at practice based approach that's also have evidence based research which warranted my further research my doctorate actually was and researching infidelity as a clinical contract and some of the limitations of the way so that the systematic Affair recovery therapy is really it's helping the clinicians help the clients navigate those Milestones described in the book but also give them a lot of clinical intervention and help them Finance navigate balsamic park because you ask clinicians mom's plan their anxiety about working with couples dealing with infidelity I don't want to make things worse things are intense but also sometimes you know their personal issues give him the way too because we're human beings is fiberglass train
write thank you so much for sharing that information to cover therapy thing I know you also have retrieved and some books so take it away let us know how about all about you and how we can reach you for those of you who are listening if you are a client who is interested in obtaining services to help you deal with the recent or past infidelity he wasn't welcome to reach me at my website Fidelity Counseling Center where you learn about the Clinical Services I provide whether it's an outpatient and personal virtual as well as a 3-day intensive recovery retreat but if you are a counselor clinician who is interested in learning more about how to do effective counseling with couple were dealing with infidelity and would like to learn more about systematic Affair recovery therapy you can
remind me at 6 to Manna Cafe recovery at this point of time there is three levels of training and certification course to be certified as a therapist but also if they're just as there are few to 2/3 or 1 hour all my courses that you can take SCD users to give you exposure to the treatment model
and so can you provide us with some tips for betrayed person in the relationship and also tips for the one who's been unfaithful and how and it says this infidelity and how to help them be connected as to engage in proactive transparency and this is something important when they are attempting to tell the story which I recommend to do it with that presence of a clinician rather than do it on your own so transparency is what I described it as I live in a glass house whatever you want to see I will let you see I'm not going to block you but I asked unfaithful to be practically transparent meaning I want you to go out of your way to share with me and with your partner some of the unpleasant truth that lets of infidelity I'm not asking you to do this to traumatize your partner I'm asking you to do this to what to Showcase to yourself into your partner that you're willing to
take the song practical steps to come clean and to look at those issues so that we can actually see what we going to do about them so that that is very important thing to do to keep in mind and again I avoid lying and half-truths because I've been doing this for many years truth always comes back right you know if you lie about things right now and there will be a way to find out because even if you take it to your grave the third party is the wildcard they may or may not be on board with that so it's best to come clean right away it's important to when you're not losing the impact of infidelity and you provide an apology that is your apology after discovering Fidelity a lot of clients that you know I thought we were there is a million apology from them faithful but they were not well received by the Betrayed well that's the case because they're reactionary and they're very general I'm sorry I got to feeling I'm sorry I got caught
if you want to provide an apology that is Meaningful it cannot happen without truly articulating you are knowledgement of how much damage that you caused is different about you would be more meaningful if you say I'm sorry that because of my infidelity now you're insecure and you don't like how you look in the mirror I'm sorry that because of my infidelity now you cannot socialize with people because you worried about clearing out our relationship problems right has more value in more meaning that I have four left after the discovery of infidelity the relationships change and change drastically so people come to acting very abnormal ways right and it's really important to be aware of how you're acting and explain that to your partner at common complain that I hear from that betrayed is that while I feel bad on faithful as just don't care about what they did and they happen
and you ask them why do you think that they say well every time I want to talk about that fair they don't want to talk about it they want to change the subject a try to get out of it out of it I think you're a pathetic I don't think they care and when you ask that I'm faithful is this true they say well know their observations accurate but I'm not doing this because of that I'm doing this because I'm guilty and ashamed and and and I do want to be with legal to chain a great why don't you explain that to to the Betrayed 17 on misperceiving a different way and now we can actually talk about the different way for me to you will be built in the shame in the way that help facilitate the process versus shutting it down so be aware of how you're behaving and explain that to your partner said they don't have no assumptions because those men such nonsense and change that the future of the relationship
I saw something from my tips and advice for the Unfaithful my tips and advice for the Betrayed won the most importantly that if you decide to be both a relationship you really need to be aware of why you're doing that there is good reasons and there is bad reasons for wanting to rebuild a relationship but whether you rebuild a relationship together or he'll individually both of them are going to be equally difficult choices and in order for you to stay the course you have to know what those motivations are so you can remind yourself and stick to it that motivation to rebuild our relationship would be a while we want our kids to have an attack household or divorce is expensive well that's nice they can be a bonus reasons for a building a relationship but they cannot be the primary reason
another advice is remind yourself that your decision about the relationship and whether you rebuild it or he'll individually its unique to you meaning don't rely on other people's in your life to end their judgment to to guide that process because at the end of the day what a red license support they're giving you you're also still listening there by us and you're going to be the one who's dealing with the consequences of your choice I've seen people who left when they should enough and I feel this all people who stayed when they should not because of what other people thought it is your life you need to make that determination based on circumstances to you even if that person is giving you advice had their experience is different than yours I can guarantee it based on unique situation last advice that I have betrayed
allow yourself to to accept that the healing process is going to be difficult meaning that they're going to be triggers if you actually put up a bad bad DSM-5 which is their clinical guide for a therapist and you look at post-traumatic stress disorder and you change the war traumatic event infidelity you don't find a Picture Perfect Fit Body causes PTSD symptoms so they're going to be triggers you know if your Duolingo Strikers it doesn't mean that you're not willing to recover I just mean that's part of the healing process and it's okay to identify what you need from your partner to help you with those triggers because suppressing them it's not going to do you any good but also you need to see if your partner Unfaithful is going to be able to be there for you during that time and also I understand that you know if the parameters of rebuilding trust after discovery of infidelity might seem to be too much or outlandish like if you say you know I can
best yet I want to access to your phone that's fine that's short-term that's not a long-term it's okay for short-term do you need extra additional tools to help put your mind at ease as long as you understand that this is not a long-term way for revealing dress
okay thank you so much for I'm just tips there I do have one quick question for the person who's been betrayed
you know you said you got that process of whether I stay or whether I I go is there a lunch to make that decision or you know in the sense of do I have to make a decision as soon as I hear about it and maybe go to one session of counseling that I have to make that decision.
great question I always tell my clients even the ones who come in knowing that they want to rebuild a relation from the get-go I was saying like pump your brakes it's not because I don't want you to rub your relationship I want to make sure whatever choice you make an actually date on solid foundation and you can actually show me the math of why you decided to do that you cannot just you know having Fidelity happen don't do all these steps and say I want to rebuild a relationship to me about a time that desire is to desire not based on a foundation rank we need to figure out what got you to that point so there is more important is to go through the steps that would allow you to make that choice so then people started well how do you know which one is the better half for people when I use the word path because I was saying like you know if you take a step and you don't like it you can always a circle back so whatever you choose you're not stuck with it cast
when is the history of the relationship prior to that fair there's some people who had a bad relationship from day one and infidelity is just icing on the cake and there are couples who have a good relationship with infidelity happen right the one in the second category are going to be a better candidate for rebuilding a second aspect I looked at in that assessment is how do people doing the Milestones off you know telling the story acknowledgement that dishonest and if they are not understanding the impact of what they did and the last part is you know the type and actual cause of left there and that's different for each person based on their worldview on what medium is forgivable and not
thank you so much doctor isalean you've been wonderful definitely for people who are out there and they're thinking they're struggling with infidelity definitely check his website out website for infidelity is w w infidelity Counseling Center., he's also on Twitter and on LinkedIn as infidelity recovery expert and definitely against that you also have the systematic Affair recovery therapy for those counselors out there thinking about getting trained and working with in Minneapolis and I need to get to look at it myself because many of us is dealing with couples who have affairs and stuff you may want to have another Papa tools to help him help them thank you so much for being on the Shelf yes I really really do appreciate it okay
I like on this has been to bring intimacy back to thank you so much and if you enjoy this shows definitely check us out on our website and check us out on Now podcast thank you