[00:11] Speaker 1: Welcome to Breaking the Silence with Dr. Gregory Williams. Dr. Williams is the author of the acclaimed book, Shattered by the Darkness: Putting the Pieces Back Together After Child Abuse. Dr. Williams is on the senior leadership team at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, Texas. And, Dr. Williams travels the United States speaking and training professionals, parents, and victims about the importance of dealing with abuse and personal trauma head-on, and not being afraid to break the silence of your own personal pain. Feel free to call in to tonight's show at 888-627-6008. And speak with Dr. Williams and his guests live on-air. And now, your host, Dr. Williams.

[01:25] Speaker 2: All righty. Good evening and welcome to, uh, Breaking the Silence. I'm Greg Williams and we're here in the most beautiful city, in my opinion, in the absolute world, Houston, Texas. Lot of things going on right now. I don't know if you can see because of... It's during the day and the sun's kind of bright. Uh, right across the way is, uh, the NRG Stadium where the Texans play football and, uh, they are having the infamous, uh, Houston Rodeo, uh, and it closes out tomorrow night. Uh, so town has been a little more busy than normal in the last, uh, three weeks, and they've had all kinds of, uh, musical people come through, and concerts and, and pig shows and (laughs) all kinds of things, rodeos going on. But if you've never been to Houston, you ought to come by and, uh, just drop in and, and eat some of our food and meet some of the wonderful people. And I just am a... such an advocate of this town. I have, uh, uh...

[02:24] Speaker 2: The only regret I have about Houston is I didn't move here, uh, soon enough. And I've always said that Houston's just about two or three miles south of Heaven, and, uh, we're not perfect here, but boy, we have a, a great heart, uh, of a city. We're... I... First of all, I just want to let you know that we don't have live, uh, telephone in opportunities tonight, if you have a comment or a question, because we are not live, we are pre-recorded. Now, if you're listening to this on right now live on Saturday, on Station 2 on BBS Radio, uh, you... Feel free to call in if you want to, uh, or text me here at 888-627-6008. My text number, my cell phone number is 832-396-6525. You can text a question there and before the show is out, as we're pre-recording to run Sunday night, uh, right now, but if you want to, uh, text or comment, feel free, uh, to do that. And I promise to, to let that... our guests know what your thoughts or your questions are. So, uh, welcome to the program.

[03:34] Speaker 2: Uh, each week we try to bring what I feel is the best experts in so many different fields, in so many different areas. And we have been on a good roll. Uh, last week we had a, a great guest, uh, Keith Groundsel. Um, we have, uh, uh, an awesome guest next week. We have Heidi Chance coming back for a full shell. Uh, we have some great guests coming up, so don't miss the program. And, uh, on each Sunday night, 8:00 PM in Houston, so on BBS Radio station. I tell you what, I was... if I'm lying, I'm dying. I was sitting here drinking... I, I drink one of these... at least one or two of these a day because I'm losing so much weight, uh, because of my throat issues and my Lou Gehrig's Disease, my ALS, uh, that this helps me put the weight on. And it's called CorePower.

[04:28] Speaker 2: And I was sitting here waiting for, uh, the program to kind of boot up a little bit and I was reading this and like, "What am I drinking here?" And if I tilt this sideways without spilling it, it says, "What makes this CorePower so unique is it's pure and fresh and u- un- uh, ultra filtered milk, have 42 grams of protein," which is what I need because I can't eat meat, uh, now. And it helps build muscle and supports recovery. When I read that, I thought, "Wow. Helps build muscle and supports recovery." That should be maybe put on the cover of our Bibles. It helps build support. It helps build recovery. It helps build courage. Uh, and it is in reality the true core power of what we can do to be able to get through. And this one thing I wanna... that I've kind of revisited this week, 'cause I always share, um, what I'm dealing with in life. Um, one thing that I revisited this week was healing. Sometimes healing is three steps forward, two steps back.

[05:59] Speaker 2: Uh, and if that's sh- where you're at right now, just remember that's still, in a total, still progress.Some days I can't walk very well, and, uh, this has been one of those weeks where my body is, is just screaming out in pain, and I can't move as good as I want to. Uh, I, I just can't get up and walk around like I want to. My back's going out and, and, uh, but you gotta just keep on moving. Uh, and I, I've realized that I am in such a much better place than when I was with a couple things that I did that caused the first step in my healing. One of the things that caused my body to break down was I was silent for years. And our guest, uh, here, that comes on shortly may be, be able to tell us her story and how she ended up finally revealing and coming to grips with what she was dealing with because of what she had gone through. But one of the first things that I, I recognized, um, was my acknowledgement of what had happened to me. And I was slinging sweat making a presentation.

[07:17] Speaker 2: Let's be honest. I was preaching a sermon at a church that I was at in Missouri. And I was doing one of those fire and brimstone sermons, and, and I was just going right after it and getting all excited and, and having a great time, and then I said, "And y'all know that I was sexually abused at..." And when I said it, I caught myself and stopped, 'cause I never had said it before and nobody knew it. And there was a hush across the entire crowd. And, uh, it's like, "Whoa." And I finished the sentence, and then shortly after that, closed out, uh, the sermon. But after it was over and we said amen and people were leaving, I was noticing that people were starting to come up, uh, to the platform, and as I was making my way down, uh, I met several people that said, you know, "Greg, I went through that too, and I've never told anybody." And that was an aha moment for me.

[08:26] Speaker 2: It wasn't complete healing, but it was the beginning of the process, because it was the first time after 30-some years that I ever verbally said, "I was sexually abused." It took me several years after that, just a few years ago, um, to be able to verbalize that I was trafficked by my father in my own bedroom, uh, dozens of times for over three, four years every Monday night. Eight to 10 to 12 people would come into my bedroom and be done with me, and then the next one would walk in. And my dad would sell me out of my bedroom. In that acknowledgement, uh, of my abuse, it also gave me the understanding that I want everybody to hear tonight, and I wanna get our insight from our guests too on this, that I realized it wasn't my fault. It wasn't anything that I did that caused that to happen.

[09:37] Speaker 2: And in that, there's another A, so acknowledging, and two, I had to accept the fact that that experience, that hurt, that pain, that, those years, all through my teenage years until I was almost 17 years old, from my earliest childhood memory, does not define who I am. So I acknowledged it, and I accepted that, and it takes a while to accept it. That's not who I am. It wasn't my fault, and it's not who I am. And then it was important for me to announce it, to name it, to say it. And in that, I reclaimed some of my power back that had been taken from me. A lot of people use this phrase all the time in human trafficking. They say, "Oh, we are the, you know, the people that are out there advocating and, and being, uh, the spokesperson for them." We, we say a phrase sometimes that almost curls my stomach, uh, but I, I'll, I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Uh, we are the, the voice to the voiceless.

[10:51] Speaker 2: And I have interviewed so many people, uh, that have been trafficked that indicate to me they're not voiceless. They have a voice. We just need to listen to 'em, and listen to them in a way that we love them, support them, encourage them, help them, uh, pray for them, and I can go through all these. But they're not voiceless. They have a voice that must be amplified and listened to. And any organization that has anything to do with abuse, if you don't have live, experienced people on the committees and on the working crews and as employees, you're doing s- uh, uh, uh, unbelievable disservice to the organization. You need to put people that have gone through it. They've been there, done that, and they know what it's gonna take to be able to help other people go through it. That's why and how we can take what the devil meant to kill us and destroy us and bind us in hell to be able to turn all that negativity into positivity through Jesus Christ and being able to say, "Hey, wait.

[12:01] Speaker 2: You thought you had me, devil. No way. I'm gonna now turn it into power and help as many people as I can." And in that-... uh, announcing it, it doesn't negate the pain anymore, uh, but I no longer have to lie to myself to survive. So I face the truth. Now Jesus said, in, in John Chapter 8:31-32, most of you probably know it by heart, said, "Jesus said to the Jews who believed him..." Listen to this, 'cause this is another way. "If you abide in my word," the word that'll give you support for recovery, "if you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know..." This, this is the verse that everybody jumps on. "And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." But the only way, and, and go ahead and bring, uh, our guest on next to me here. The only way, so that you can see her expression to what I'm getting ready to say. The only way the truth can set us free is by abiding in the word of God, and then you will receive core power. Real, true core power.

[13:50] Speaker 2: Once you have hope, anything is possible, and I just wanted to share that with you. That's kind of what I was thinking about this week, and I'll throw that little sheet over here, off to the side. And, um, give Christ a chance. Give him an opportunity and find somebody, and if you can't, he's always there, to share what's going on with you, what's happened to you, and then reclaim that power back to be able to get your core strength back to where it needs to be. To be able to, to protect yourself, your kids, your family, and break the cycle of what this can do to so many people's lives.

[14:38] Speaker 2: Today, uh, we have probably, um, one of my favorite authors right now-

[14:45] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[14:45] Speaker 2: ... that I could find in my little bookcase. Um, Sula Laell, and, um, she is a, listen to this, she is a survivor's pastor. And I, I would probably, probably need to get on the phone right now and call Guinness and say, "Hey, who was the first person to ever start a survivor's church for people that had been abused?" And it would be in the Guinness Book of World Records as this young lady-

[15:15] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[15:15] Speaker 2: ... because I don't know of another one still. There may be, but one that's just survivor-oriented, and we're gonna tell you about all that. She's also an author of six books. We have a great announcement for th- today, this afternoon, on the, I guess it's this morning. This morning, uh, at Saturday time and then tomorrow night, which is when this is gonna run on station one, uh, to be able to give you a book that everybody needs to download, and I'll let her tell you about that gift. But I have read this. It is one of the, if not the best books I have ever read because of the way she writes it. I, we just clicked.

[15:58] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[15:58] Speaker 2: The way, the way she put the sentences together was like, "I understand that. I understand that. That's great. I never knew that." I, and it was just from page, after page, after page, after page. She is a survivor of sex trafficking. She now dedicates her entire life to sep- to shepherding survivors, uh, beyond survival. Not just to survive, but to thrive into freedom, into joy, into lasting success. I'll let her tell you about the rest of her life 'cause I could go for, for hour just on her life.

[16:36] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[16:36] Speaker 2: But I met her through a great organization, Street Grace.

[16:39] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[16:39] Speaker 2: And I am so proud of them and so fond of that committee, uh, and that organization that, that we serve on together. But, uh, Sula, thank you so much for being on the program today. How you doing, dear?

[16:51] Speaker 3: Oh, my goodness. Well, first of all, that intro, revelation and your story and your word, I'm over here like, "Uh, I'm gonna be messed up before I even come on." (laughs) I mean, so much power and revelation in what you just shared. I'm so incredibly honored to be sitting here with you and having this conversation today. Thank you for, um, making space for me to come and talk to you and, and share with your, your viewers and listeners.

[17:20] Speaker 2: Well, I tell you, um, I, I appreciate that, but, you know what? In reality, we, we're all doing the same kind of work.

[17:27] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[17:27] Speaker 2: Uh, just in different veins.

[17:30] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[17:30] Speaker 2: Um, tell me what the books are about, how we can get a hold of the books, uh, what got you involved and started to write. And then maybe a little bit about your story and however order you want to put that, and then I wanna get to the church, I wanna get to what you're doing now. I wanna get to so many things in the short time that we have, and probably want you to come back on. But, uh, tell me, was, did you always want to be a writer?

[18:00] Speaker 3: You know-

[18:00] Speaker 2: Because you do it beautifully.

[18:01] Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Uh, that means a lot coming from you. (laughs) Um, uh, actually, something that you said earlier, I was like, "Oh, my goodness, that's exactly what happened with me too." Um, the first time I shared my story publicly in 2020, uh, 2010, um, and started doing work in the anti-trafficking movement, you know, 15, uh, almost 16 years ago, um, I had the same thing happen to me.... people started coming up to me and saying, "I, uh... You're talking about what I've been through. I never had language for it.

[18:34] Speaker 3: I didn't know it was trafficking." And so I started realizing that as I would sit with people who had similar experiences, um, my heart is like, "I wanna pour everything that I know from the, from the Lord, anything that's helpful, whether it's practical, whether it's spiritual, like, I wanna pour everything out." And I was realizing, like, I don't have the time to lovingly pour everything I know into every person that comes up to me that says, "Uh, that happened to me, too." And so as I began to pray into it, the Lord said, um, to write the book. And so my first book was of my story and everything the Lord taught me in my healing journey of finding purpose after everything I had suffered and overcome. And so that's why I wrote my first book.

[19:22] Speaker 3: It was so that I could pour my life out, pour out everything He has spoken and, and given me wisdom and revelation about in the Word, so that when people read that first, that first book, which is Fighting For Your Purpose, um, it's like sitting down with a friend and just getting downloads of everything the Lor- uh, all... It's so full of the Scripture, of the word of God, um, and so that was, like, a solution, uh, to help people. And then I realized, "Okay.

[19:50] Speaker 3: Books are kind of like a love language." (laughs)

[19:53] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[19:53] Speaker 3: You know, you just give everything freely. I've received that... I just wanna give, give it to people. And, um, and I just began to... That, that started my author journey, was genuinely just wanting to pour out into people.

[20:07] Speaker 2: Well, that's great. And I, I don't know if it's the way you write or just that the Scripture is involved in it and intertwined in it-

[20:19] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[20:19] Speaker 2: ... but I, I love the, the bullet points, uh-

[20:22] Speaker 3: Yes.

[20:23] Speaker 2: ... in the one, um, the Inside the Minds, uh, book.

[20:29] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[20:29] Speaker 2: Because it just... That, that's the way I think.

[20:32] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[20:32] Speaker 2: I think anybody that's been, um, hurt or abused or traumatized or whatever pain you've gone through, uh, we have a very, uh, limited, uh, ability to, to keep focus on something.

[20:47] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[20:47] Speaker 2: So those bullet points, like, oh, wow. You know, I, I took it in, I took it in. I circled it, I highlighted it, underli- lined it, uh, in Kindle.

[20:55] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[20:55] Speaker 2: And I, I love the Kindle be- so we- be able to do that. So you can actually get the book right now and download it right to your, uh, laptop. But, um, I just love, love the way you write. When you were exposed to whatever you had to go through in life, um, did you have a belief in Christ during that time? Was that one of the powers that, that kept you, uh, going? Or did it come later in, in the stage of your development?

[21:29] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really great question. Um, so obviously (laughs) my life has not always been this way, you know? It... Going back to how things started, before becoming an author and pastor and all these things that the Lord has entrusted me to do and commissioned me to do. Um, life started out, um, in horror, honestly. Um, and so I, I was not born into a family that knew the Lord. Um, I had a single, very hardworking mama who was doing everything that she could to provide for me while going to school, and so my, my first memories in life, um... Yeah, Jesus was not, uh... I was not aware of Jesus yet, you know, um, as a child. And so my first memories in life are of exploitation, actually. Um, she... You know, my mom had to entrust people to babysit me, um, and care for me while she was, you know, working and going to school and all of those things.

[22:29] Speaker 3: And unfortunately, um, the family that was watching me and caring for me the most, from 18 months old, so as a baby, a toddler, um, to three years old, they were actually occult traffickers. And so my first memories... And I'm gonna try and keep this as, um, graceful as possible for the viewers and the listeners. I, I s- certainly do not want this to be, like, triggering in any way, so I'll communicate it as gracefully as possible, my story. But, um, you know, my first memories in life are of being stuffed under com- com- comforters, moving from one mattress on the floor to the next, multiple mattresses that they had on the ground, hiding in closets, um, big body parts on my little body parts, and, um, demons being involved and rituals being involved in the exploitation with adults. And so my mom actually found out about the abuse that was happening when, at three years old, um... This is gonna sound alarming but this is what happened.

[23:34] Speaker 3: Um, at three years old, I asked her to give me oral sex. And there's no way that a three-year-old should know anything about that. And so, um... And I also would always have, like, yeast infections and issues with my, you know, girl parts and stuff as a baby, as a toddler, and just all these different issues. And so she found out what was going on and started an investigation and got me away from that family, and, um, that's how she found out that I was being exploited by people she trusted.

[24:09] Speaker 2: In this, this cult, um, trafficking, occult trafficking, uh, situation, was this a Satanic, uh, ritual abuse, an SRA that you... Wow. You, you're one of the most profound and depth, uh, writer of that that I have...... read recently anyway, uh-

[24:31] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[24:31] Speaker 2: ... unbelievable chapters on that.

[24:33] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[24:33] Speaker 2: Uh, was that part of that and why you, uh-

[24:37] Speaker 3: Yes.

[24:37] Speaker 2: ... talk about that so much in the book?

[24:39] Speaker 3: Yes. And I think that right now, like, the world is finally ready for this conversation. I-

[24:45] Speaker 2: Oh.

[24:45] Speaker 3: ... mean, even with the Epstein files being released, I mean, the, the, the globe is impacted by, um, testimonies of children that have experienced ritual abuse and trafficking and, um, yeah, for so many years, I think that those elements of abuse have been suppressed, covered up. Now we see why, um, because of, uh, the elite being involved in this type of sex trafficking. So this is a whole separate type of trafficking that now is being talked about more than ever. And, um, Greg, I feel like, um, you know, years ago when the TVPRA first came out in 2000, we finally had a federal law explaining what sex trafficking and labor trafficking even is. Prior to that, we were all just kind of treated as criminals, you know, and prostitutes, and we were being arrested for our victim- victimization, you know. But when that came out, it was like the world was finally awakened that, "Oh, these people aren't criminals. They don't deserve to be put in jail.

[25:51] Speaker 3: They, they deserve help and support and healing and care. These are sex trafficking victims," you know. And so I feel like we're, um, and I- I've been kinda (laughs) preaching this on my s- on my soapbox for a couple of years now, that we're in another wave of awareness similar to that as it pertains to Satanic ritual abuse trafficking, that type of trafficking that exists, even here in the US.

[26:16] Speaker 2: You know, I'm involved in this world, uh, with different organizations and committees and I'll try and d- do what I can to help with what time I have left. Nobody talks about this side of it. Nobody talks about the Satanic ritual stuff.

[26:31] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[26:32] Speaker 2: Matter of fact, if somebody came up and asked me before I read your book, "Hey, uh, do you think that's still, or was that just a '70s thing, or was that just a fad that the, the world was going through? You know, you seen the movies on it and, you know, all the, the, the things that happened?" And I would probably say, "Ah, it's not very prevalent. It's a very low percentage of the trafficking today." What do you think is? I mean, you mentioned the Epstein, uh, files.

[26:57] Speaker 2: Do you think some of that was part of this SRA, the Satanic-

[27:03] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[27:03] Speaker 2: ... ritualistic abuse type of situation?

[27:06] Speaker 3: Absolutely. It's all throughout-

[27:07] Speaker 2: Wow.

[27:07] Speaker 3: ... the files, all throughout. And, um, this is actually something that has been happening for a very long time. It's in the Bible as well. And I won't go into, like, a whole training on this right now, but it's referenced multiple places in the Bible. Um, and how it would happen in Biblical times is that there would be Pagan temples-

[27:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[27:28] Speaker 3: ... um, where, um, there would be what's called, like, shrine prostitutes or cult prostitutes, male and female. And, of course, in Bible times, they didn't have the term sex trafficking, you know. (laughs) Um, but what would happen is families would dedicate their s- their son or daughter to the Pagan temple, which would be for Baal or Moloch or Ashtarot or, I mean, several other, you know, um, Pagan god demons. And so, so, a, a family would dedicate their child to the temple in service to that demon. And then what would happen is there would be rituals, like fertility rituals and certain rituals for... The people in the area would come to the Pagan temple, they would give money to the, um, to... As an offering to that demonic entity, and they would do ritual sex acts with the, the shrine prostitutes or the cult prostitutes that were there. And the purpose was to gain power, to gain influence, to try to kind of, like, level up their status in life or, or what have you.

[28:31] Speaker 3: And, um, so it's trafficking 'cause there's an exchange of money that's happening that the victim never sees, and the ritual abuse is there because there's, they're, they were dedicated to a demonic entity in order to then service these people. And, um, there's a scripture in the Word that talks about fornication specifically and says, um, that not to make yourself one with a prostitute. Um, and what's interesting is, what I've learned is that, um, fornication or rapes or, you know, ritual sex acts, sex trafficking, this is why I believe it's the biggest industry globally, sex trafficking, is because it's the fastest way for demons to be transferred from one person to another because the two bodies are becoming one. It's an instant transfer of anything demonic happening in the victim's life or in one person's life to the other. Um, and so it's that, their, those ties that happen. And so, um, this is why the Word says, "Don't, (laughs) don't lay with prostitutes or trafficking victims.

[29:32] Speaker 3: Don't make yourself one with them." And so, um, I think that's why it, it's become the biggest industry globally, sex trafficking, because Satan (laughs) knows that that's the fastest way to transfer demons. It's the fastest way to bully and harass and control people. Um, and so this has existed all the way back to the times in the Bible, which I do share and break down the scriptures and talk about-

[29:56] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[29:58] Speaker 3: ... in my book. Um, and, uh, it's still happening in the same way today, the ritual abuse with children, um, you know, and trafficking as it pertains to trafficking. There's sex, there's sex acts. There are demonic entities that are involved. Um, and so my, you know, my childhood, I was instantly aware of the spirit realm and of demons. And, um, a- you know, as that was happening and exploitation was happening, um, you know, these different demonic entities were introduced into my life. So, throughout my childhood, I didn't just have bad dreams. I had experiences where I was assaulted and raped by demons, where I was pulled out of my body to different locations in the spirit realm, um, you know, meeting with occult members and things of that nature. So my, (laughs) my childhood was-... it, it's, i- it was a horror scene. However, um, because of the nature of the trauma that I was experiencing, I fractured or, um, had, uh, multiple parts or personalities.

[31:05] Speaker 3: So the trauma was too much for me to survive and live through, and so, um, I, you know, fractured off in that moment, or, or compartmentalized and essentially went somewhere else when the trafficking was happening as a toddler. And, um, so whenever I started going to counseling after, you know, my mom reported the abuse and all of that, I really didn't end up with a good tra- um, counselor, but she immediately was able to identify that I had different personalities at three.

[31:41] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[31:41] Speaker 3: And so when she would ask me about the abuse, I would literally turn and talk to someone else, another part of myself, and ask what happened, because that part of me was the part of me that was trafficked and ritually abused. Um, and so it was discovered at three that I already had multiple personalities, because there's no other way that a baby can survive sex trafficking and ritual abuse without the separating of and the compartmentalizing of. And I think God is brilliant for creating the human soul in a way that can fracture or compartmentalize unsurvivable trauma so that he then later in life can be the one to heal and mend the broken heart and soul.

[32:25] Speaker 2: Mend the heart again.

[32:25] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[32:26] Speaker 2: Wow. We're gonna take our first commercial break, so, or only commercial break, so everybody can just kind of take this in right now. Uh, we'll be back on the other side of this, about a minute and a half, uh, short, short commercial. But, um, Sula, when we come back, I wanna find out if you think there's organized, uh, organizations, groups that are per- still performing this, and then I wanna turn the corner, uh, and talk about church, Christ, the healing power, and, uh, some things about the book. So we're gonna be right back, uh, on the other side of this commercial break. Don't leave us. Hang with us. We'll be right back.

[33:07] Speaker 1: (dramatic music plays) Get ready for a life-changing journey. From the best-selling author of Shattered by the Darkness and When the Dark Clouds Come, Dr. Gregory Williams is back with his highly anticipated third book, Embracing Your Scars: Learning How to Turn Life's Pain Into Life's Power and Purpose. Have you ever wondered how to transform your struggles into strength? Do you want to stop hiding behind the pain, the heartache, and instead learn how to turn those scars into the very fuel that propels you towards greatness? If you do, then this book is for you. In Embracing Your Scars, Dr. Williams shows you how to take the negative experiences of your past and turn them into the very source of your future success. Don't miss out, because your transformation begins here. The book is available soon on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever great books are sold.

[34:31] Speaker 1: (dramatic music plays and intensifies)

[34:36] Speaker 2: Welcome back. We have a unbelievable guest tonight, uh, S- Sula Leal, and, uh, she is an author, she's a pastor of, of a survivors church, and we're talking about SRA, which is satanic ritual abuse, um, which is something that I have never had a guest on the program to even touch on that. Um, Sula, are there organizations out there ...

[35:04] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[35:04] Speaker 2: ... that use this as a secret darkness of the backroom organization that we don't know very publicly in our world today? Is it still going on? W- and is there groups that are doing this?

[35:22] Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely. Um, you know, the only way for, um, this type of, of trafficking to exist, I would say for any type of trafficking to exist, is that there are organized groups that are intentional about covering it up. Um, so yes. There are some, you know, (laughs) I kinda laugh because I recently, you know, saw a post (laughs) that said something like, you know, "Call your conspiracy theorist, uh, friend and tell them you're sorry for ever not believing them now with everything that's coming out publicly," 'cause, you know, like, we're even seeing Hollywood and, and people talking about and exposing things that were a part of these types of private secret groups like the Illuminati and, and other secret organizations that have been doing this for a very long time. And so we're seeing it everywhere coming out, where people are now getting the strength to say, "This is what I've seen behind the scenes.

[36:18] Speaker 3: This is what I've experienced or witnessed," whether they personally went through it or they've watched it happen. People are getting more bold, thankfully, in coming out and talking about it. Um, so yes. There, you know, there is, um, there are elite groups that are, um, behind the scenes with this stuff, and for them, in this type of trafficking, it's really, it's not just about money, um, which would be more, you know, other, other types of trafficking are, you know, uh, for money and to get money, whereas, um-... satanic ritual abuse or occult trafficking is really more about influence and power from Satan.

[36:55] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[36:56] Speaker 3: Um, and so these different groups will, you know, get in- get involved in these things so that they can essentially sell their soul to get more power, to get more influence, to get, yes, get money, get wealth, get visibility, all of these things. Um, but it's about power from, from Satan that they're, that they're seeking. And I saw this personally, even in, uh, later in life. I've, I've experienced trafficking at five different pivotal points over the course of my life that started with what we talked about in the first half of the show. As a child, it kind of marked my life for more. Um, at the end of my life of... in, in sex trafficking and exploitation, I was actually sold to the elite in Hollywood. Um, different celebrities, uh, billionaires, um, a, a prince from Africa, um, you know, people of, of that caliber and ritual, um, elements were involved in some of those, um, things.

[37:53] Speaker 3: And so it was kind of like, when my life started the way that it did, it was like I was spiritually marked, essentially. So, it seemed like trafficking, abuse, you know, bad things just kept happening over and over and over again. Um, and so I have certainly seen that personally, that yes, there are groups that are organized, not only in satanic ritual abuse, but also in just sex trafficking networks that are very organized and working with people that are in places of authority that are supposed to be protectors in order to keep doing what they're doing.

[38:24] Speaker 2: Here's a tough one. Satan's greatest trick is to counterfeit-

[38:31] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[38:32] Speaker 2: ... God.

[38:34] Speaker 3: Absolutely.

[38:35] Speaker 2: Are there churches that are counterfeited by the devil to promote from within the Church, still today, like there was back in the Temple days when Jezebel and all those were, were doing things that they were doing in, uh, in the Church Temples? Is that going on today under organized religion?

[39:04] Speaker 3: Yeah. Unfortunately, yes. I mean, Satan uses what's worked. You know, he doesn't change his mind and be like, "Oh, I actually wanna be better." You know? (laughs) He's using the same strategies-

[39:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[39:16] Speaker 3: ... he always has. And, um, there are different, I believe, in every sphere of society, these organized groups are very intentional about influ- about infiltrating these areas of society and trying to get to the top of them so that they can have control. So whether that's in education, religion, government, every area of society, they want to have their people trained, programmed, equipped, put in place to try to rise to the top to have control. And, um, it's really sad, but yes, I am aware of churches where their pastors were at the top of, um, Freemasonry. They were 33rd degree Masons and Satanists, and they were commissioned, essentially, into this sphere of religion to have a church, um, to be leaders of churches, and there was ritual abuse happening at the lodge on the same street. Um, and the church was actually a recruiting ground for new victims. Um, I do not wanna say, I wanna ma- give this disclaimer. I do n- I am not saying that every Freemason, um, is a Satanist.

[40:35] Speaker 3: I'm not saying that every Freemason is aware. The lower levels actually are not aware at all of the level of ritual abuse, pedophilia, and criminal activity that happens at the top. Um, so I know there's a lot of wonderful, great, even Christian, um, people who are in the lower levels that have no idea-

[40:54] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[40:55] Speaker 3: ... of what's happening at the top. I'm... So I wanna give that disclaimer. I'm in no way saying that.

[40:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that's a, that's a tough nut to try to crack, because you bring it up-

[41:02] Speaker 3: It is very tough. (laughs)

[41:02] Speaker 2: ... there's automatic division. Um-

[41:04] Speaker 3: It's a... It is very tough. It is very, very tough.

[41:07] Speaker 2: It is.

[41:07] Speaker 3: And-

[41:07] Speaker 2: It's usually, it gets pretty, uh, violent-

[41:09] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[41:09] Speaker 2: ... pretty quick.

[41:10] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

[41:10] Speaker 2: Uh, and understandably.

[41:12] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[41:12] Speaker 2: Um, so I th- I feel we're in the latter days. So, when the Antichrist raise his ugly head and he looks so perfect, it could possibly come from one of these deep-based, uh, groups that has a lot of power, has a lot of followers that haven't come out of the woodwork yet, and they're all doing it in secret. And it'd be so easy to be able to see how the world is gonna fall in love with him, because he's manipulated-

[41:39] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[41:39] Speaker 2: ... so many people that already have high positions to begin with.

[41:42] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. And just the generational... Yeah, that's absolutely possible. (laughs) Generations and generations and generations all the way back, like, a, a lot of this stuff, it is in the bloodlines, you know?

[41:54] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[41:54] Speaker 3: It is, it is a family business. It is... I would say that satanic ritual abuse trafficking specifically, um, often, not all the time, but often, it is also familial trafficking.

[42:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[42:07] Speaker 3: Um, and so, yeah, it's, it's... There are things that have happened generations, you know, generations back that essentially are like markers on a person's life to be attractive, spiritually, to these types of demonic things and assignments from Hell. And so, um, it's the same way like how, you know, in health, like, when you go to the doctor and you give, you know, a, a new doctor, you have to give them your, your family history, medical history. It's the same thing how, in our, our physical bodies, things can be passed down, markers can be passed down. Um, that can happen spiritually as well, and, um, and the Bible does talk about that. But even as we're talking about, like, (laughs) all of this horrifically dark stuff, like, the hope is that there is nothing that happens to a person...... that cannot be healed and restored through Jesus Christ.

[43:03] Speaker 3: Jesus is-

[43:03] Speaker 2: With that turn of the page-

[43:04] Speaker 3: ... the answer. (laughs)

[43:05] Speaker 2: Is that how you got involved-

[43:07] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[43:08] Speaker 2: ... uh, with saying, "Hey, wait. I, I don't see a church that's dealing with this head-on."

[43:15] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[43:16] Speaker 2: "I wanna be a part of that." Is that how you got involved in that, Sula?

[43:20] Speaker 3: Yeah. So I, um, whenever I fully surrendered my life to the Lord at 24-

[43:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[43:27] Speaker 3: This actually happened, um, in a Malibu mansion on the floor. Um, eh, th- the last person that I was sold to was the, the prince from Africa, and I surrendered my life fully to Jesus, and I said, "I, I don't care if I have to live in a cardboard box. I don't care where you leave me, I'm going, eh, wherever you send me. I'm doing whatever you say. I've been trying to lead my life on my own, and I always end up in gutters. I always end up in bad places." And so, from that moment, to fully surrender my life, um, I've just followed His voice since. And so, um, for so many years in the anti-trafficking space, since 2010, I just did anything. I partnered and collaborated with different organizations and ministries, and however I could help and serve and, um, minister to other survivors, and just su- bu- anything that I could do to help.

[44:21] Speaker 3: And that progressed into seeing, you know, there's things that survivors of trafficking deal with, um, that maybe isn't addressed in the average, um, you know, church, because it's just, it's such complex trauma, right? And so, um... And there are survivors that have experienced spiritual abuse that maybe wasn't satanic ritual abuse, but spiritual abuse, in, um, various faith-based settings as well. So, there are some survivors of trafficking where it's hard for them to go towards Jesus because they've experienced false stuff or icky stuff, you know, from people in the past. And so, as I've just been working with numerous survivors over the year and just following the voice of the Lord, it was actually the Lord that said that I would be pastoring, um, survivors of sex trafficking. I had 12 years of pastoral experience in, and I, um, serving in churches, and I just, I saw the need and just following the voice of the Lord.

[45:19] Speaker 3: And as I searched, um, and was looking, and like, "Is this out there?" Um, I didn't see anything available online at all. So I c- I would love to say, "This is my idea. I'm just so great. I came up with this idea." I did not. (laughs) Um, there was years of prayer into this, confirmation from people that I, I pray with and, um, have, you know, group intercession and prayer time with. Um, and just words people would speak to me of, "I see you pastoring survivors," and things where it's like they had no idea. So this was, like, bathed in prayer for a couple of years, and, um, people that are in my life, um, and speak into my life and pour into my life and confirm, like, "This is the timing of the Lord for this." And so, um, so yeah. We launched the first-ever online survivor-led church for survivors of sex trafficking.

[46:14] Speaker 2: What's that look like?

[46:15] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[46:16] Speaker 2: Um, I, I'm, I'm been on there, um-

[46:19] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[46:19] Speaker 2: Yo- you've welcomed me into that. Uh, but how's, what... Does it look like a normal online church? Um, do you have weekly, daily interaction? Uh, Bible st- wh- how, what, how's the format of that?

[46:34] Speaker 3: Yeah. So, um, right now, we have, uh, we start our Mondays in prayer together, and survivors from all over join, um, on a live, I'll jump on a live within our, our app. Um, and, uh, there are survivors that have joined a- as individuals. There's actually... We have safe homes that ha- that have all the survivors in their care that will gather in the living room, and I'll watch on, on TV, and pray and, um, intercede with me on Mondays. So Mondays are really special, 'cause we get to just start our week together. We pray through the Word. Um, I'm interacting with the survivors as they share scriptures or things they're sensing from the Lord, and we just pray it out together. We start our week turning our attention to the Lord together. Um, Thursday nights, we do Bible study. Um, we also have times where we join together on a private Zoom link within the, the church community, um, just to talk and get to know each other, you know.

[47:31] Speaker 3: Um, and then we are, we're gonna be launching our, uh, Sunday services live in June. So that will happen in June, um, as well. But I also have... All of my books are available for free, um, to survivors. There's, uh... Survivors that join the church, everything is free. We have faith-based courses on, like, how to get deliverance and freedom in your personal prayer time with Jesus, things like that. Um, and we also have, like, an, uh, resource library of prayers and scripture lists that are topical, things of that nature. So basically, what I've done is I've taken, um, again, everything I've learned (laughs) uh, since, you know, 2010, being in full-time ministry, and I've just poured everything into this church community so that survivors can access it all free.

[48:20] Speaker 2: I tell you, uh, one thing that I wrote down, the first thing when I was reading your books, I, I always write down... Yeah, I got Snoopy at the top of my notepad, but-

[48:26] Speaker 3: (laughs) Uh, that's awesome.

[48:27] Speaker 2: ... uh, is this first line right here. Uh, because I thought, "Oh, wait, this is powerful. I wanna make sure I ask Sula about this." The books and the stuff that you're involved with is not to just inform-

[48:39] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[48:39] Speaker 2: ... but to equip.

[48:41] Speaker 3: Yes.

[48:41] Speaker 2: Different ballgame, right?

[48:43] Speaker 3: Yes.

[48:43] Speaker 2: You're just not out telling about, "Hey, this is how smart I am. This is what I, I've done." But you're out to help them be equipped.

[48:51] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[48:51] Speaker 2: Equipped to do what?

[48:53] Speaker 3: Uh, I would say equipped to encounter Jesus.

[48:57] Speaker 2: There you go.

[48:58] Speaker 3: (laughs) That's the first thing that's the most important. Um-He's everything. And, uh, strategies for, um, encountering the kingdom of heaven, seeking His kingdom first and His righteousness. Um, and, um, I would say to find healing and freedom, like, strategies for healing and freedom that are Biblically-based, um, uh, to be able to find the purpose and the calling that God has on their lives. And so, that's where we can talk about, like, finding joy and finding success, 'cause everyone's success is different. Every survivor's success, that will look so different to every person.

[49:37] Speaker 3: But if they are understanding what it means to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and, and growing in their relationship with the Lord and, um, and in the Word of God, they're going to discover what they were put on this Earth to do-

[49:51] Speaker 2: That's right.

[49:52] Speaker 3: ... and do it really well, because they're overcomers. So, (laughs) -

[49:56] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[49:56] Speaker 3: ... that's, that's the goal. (laughs)

[49:59] Speaker 2: You know, one of the most powerful parts of the, the, one of the books that I read was your Biblical examples of narcissism-

[50:06] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[50:07] Speaker 2: ... and the narc- narcissistic people that are in the Bible. It's like, "Wow, I never thought about, I never thought about them, never thought about."

[50:13] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[50:13] Speaker 2: And you just, you start listing them, and it's just like a shotgun of information that has the background work already done for you.

[50:22] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[50:22] Speaker 2: And I, I love that. I, I never thought about that. It was, uh, that was a beautiful part of the book.

[50:28] Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah. I just, I mean, the Word is the foundation for everything. It's, it's so exciting. It's such an adventure. Like I feel, I feel like every time I read the Word, there's something new that becomes, uh, that I become aware of. Like, "Whoa, I've read this Scripture so many times and, uh, I didn't even think about that." It, you know, the Word of God is literally alive.

[50:50] Speaker 2: It is.

[50:50] Speaker 3: And it's so cool.

[50:51] Speaker 2: And that's, that is, it's the, it's the rhema word, right?

[50:53] Speaker 3: Yes, rhema. (laughs)

[50:54] Speaker 2: That's right, it's the rhema. It's called the rhema.

[50:55] Speaker 3: Yeah. (laughs)

[50:56] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[50:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. (laughs)

[50:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, I did my thesis, um, for my doctorate's degree, uh, on how the Word of God can answer-

[51:06] Speaker 3: Wow.

[51:06] Speaker 2: ... every problem this world has.

[51:08] Speaker 3: It can. Yes.

[51:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, even, even trafficking.

[51:12] Speaker 3: Yes.

[51:12] Speaker 2: And it deals with trafficking.

[51:14] Speaker 3: Yes.

[51:14] Speaker 2: It deals with hurt, it deals with loneliness, it deals with divorce, it deals with heartache-

[51:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[51:20] Speaker 2: ... betrayal, uh-

[51:23] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[51:23] Speaker 2: ... unbelievable. Can you, 'cause we're getting ready to, to wind down here, can you experience true freedom without Jesus in your life?

[51:40] Speaker 3: Well, I, I'm gonna be honest, I tried to before I, um, before I found Him, before I met Him, I was searching out Hinduism. I even searched out witchcraft because I, like, the white witchcraft, 'cause I was aware of the spirit realm. I was trying to find answers. How do I get answers for everything I'm dealing with spiritually? How do I get answers for all of the deep, crushing pain inside? I searched, and I couldn't find, you know, anything. Um, Jesus is the only reason I believe that I'm alive. I, I, I don't see it's possible to heal, um, outside of Jesus, because we have a Savior who actually understands. And, um, I, I honestly, I don't think that it is. Um, He has completely healed me of DID, of complex PTSD, of depression, of anxiety, of a whole list of mental health disorders, of all of the trauma of my life. He's integrated those fractured personalities. He's cast demons out of me. Yes, I had many demons that I needed cast out of my life.

[52:51] Speaker 3: He has completely, um, healed and restored and made me brand new. And, and, in my personal (laughs) opinion-

[53:00] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[53:01] Speaker 3: ... He's the only one that could do that. He's available day or night and world- worldwide at any time. He is a counselor, He is a friend, He is a bridegroom. Um, Jesus is everything that we, that we need or that we have voids of and, and that we're missing. Like, He fills every void, He heals every place, He satisfies every longing.

[53:25] Speaker 2: Wow.

[53:26] Speaker 3: And, um, I just don't think I would be alive without Him. I don't think it's possible to heal or find a new life without Him.

[53:35] Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Do you believe then that... I don't want to give people false impression-

[53:41] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[53:42] Speaker 2: ... either, but you still have good days and bad days, right?

[53:46] Speaker 3: Yeah. That's, that's a, that's a great-

[53:47] Speaker 2: And do you still have those memories?

[53:48] Speaker 3: ... follow-up question.

[53:49] Speaker 2: And does the, are less somehow... 'Cause I still deal with it.

[53:52] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

[53:53] Speaker 2: Uh, you may be a little stronger in your faith than I am, but, um, but He's there with us through it now.

[53:59] Speaker 3: He is. And it's different experiencing triggers, experiencing trauma responses without Him- (laughs)

[54:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[54:07] Speaker 3: ... than with Him, because the Holy Spirit, you know, is a comforter.

[54:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[54:13] Speaker 3: The Holy Spirit can lead us and guide us in all truth. He's our helper. Jesus said, "It's better for you that I go away so that the Helper can come." Um, and so, yeah, there are still days where my nervous system gets dysregulated by, you know, something that's triggering or whatever. But the impact of the triggers now in my life are not as great as prior to working through those things with the Lord and, and healing. Like, the first time I went through a, a trigger, it might have felt like a left hook, and I would've been disoriented, depressed in my bed for, you know, weeks or what have you. Whereas now, that same exact trigger, it's more like, "Okay-"... I'm aware that I'm triggered right now, but I have the ability to invite Jesus into that triggering moment, to work through it, to give myself the grace to feel what I need to feel and work through what I need to work through, and He helps me through it.

[55:05] Speaker 3: And it's, and now it's like, I can do that, you know, in, in a time of prayer versus several weeks of just my whole life getting thrown off course. Um, so yeah. There's still, there's still times where, um, where there's triggers. There's still times where, um, you know, there's warfare. Satan hates me, absolutely hates me, and I don't care. (laughs) Um, but there are times where the enemy tries to, you know, bring warfare or whatever, and, um, you know, being hidden in Christ and with Jesus, being one with Him, like, He is the way, the truth, and the life. He is the solution, and so having Him with me on, in the hard days or in the hard moments, I get to overcome every single time because He's with me.

[55:52] Speaker 2: And we are more than conquerors-

[55:54] Speaker 3: That's right.

[55:55] Speaker 2: ... through Jesus Christ who strengthens me. That's, that's wonderful. I tell you what, as we close the program, I wanna make sure, uh, you get the opportunity to announce to our listeners what the... First of all, how can they get ahold of you?

[56:06] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[56:06] Speaker 2: How can they find out more about you and the, and the, the church, and your resources, your books? And then the free gift that you're offering everybody, uh, two free gifts literally, uh-

[56:17] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[56:17] Speaker 2: ... this weekend. So tell us how to do that.

[56:19] Speaker 3: Absolutely. People can find out about, uh, the Survivor Church and our academy where we train people how to minister to sex trafficking survivors at takeflightsurvivors.org. Um, and then the free gift that I'm so excited to offer everybody is a free digital download of my book, Inside the Minds of Sex Trafficking Victims, both the faith-based version, um, which is loaded with scriptural revelation, and also the secular version for anyone that maybe you're not Christian, but, um, you just, you still want the survivor-led insight. Um, and so I have a secular version of the same book. Both are available for free as digital download at sulalael.com\gift. Um, so if you guys head over there, you can get that for free. And please reach out, um, either on takeflightsurvivors.org or sulalael.com and shoot me a contact email. Let me know how this book, um, or this interview with Dr. Williams is, is affecting your life.

[57:23] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[57:24] Speaker 2: We will have a link right on the page, uh, and hopefully when this runs, uh, tomorrow night, Sunday night, uh, at eight o'clock, it'll be right there. People can just tap into that. And it's S-U-L-A-L-A-E-L dot com slash, backslash gift.

[57:42] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[57:43] Speaker 2: And, um, Sula, I, I can't thank you enough. Keep up the good work. Uh, keep up-

[57:48] Speaker 3: Thanks, Greg.

[57:49] Speaker 2: ... God's work. Keep being a, a champion for Him, and, uh, if there's anything I can ever do for you... Uh, you also have a podcast. Tell us about your podcasts real quick. What's, what's the name of it?

[57:59] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just Take Flight. Everything is Take Flight. (laughs)

[58:03] Speaker 2: Take Flight.

[58:03] Speaker 3: So we have a Take Flight podcast, it's wherever podcasts can be listened to, or also on YouTube, and a prayer album as well. I did a prayer album, Take Flight: Soaking Prayers and Scripture Meditations, um, that are geared towards anything that you're in need of. Um, needing Jesus, needing sleep, needing peace, needing freedom. Uh, we pray together and walk through the scriptures, and that's available wherever music is sold and on YouTube as well for free.

[58:30] Speaker 2: Fantastic. Thank you for being with us. I, I appreciate you. I know you're busy. I know you've had lots of interviews this week, uh, and you always have something to do, and, and thank you for allowing, uh, our listeners to hear some of your story.

[58:43] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[58:43] Speaker 2: And hopefully, folks, you won't be disappointed with any of these books.

[58:47] Speaker 3: Aw.

[58:47] Speaker 2: I promise you.

[58:48] Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you.

[58:48] Speaker 2: And, and, wow, she's giving 'em, a couple of 'em to you, so-

[58:51] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[58:52] Speaker 2: ... uh, go for it. But, um, thank you so much for being with us. God bless you.

[58:55] Speaker 3: Thank you. God bless you too. It was an honor. (laughs)

[58:59] Speaker 2: Like we do each and every week, I always like to end the program with this one little phrase. And it's not just a phrase just like, uh, Ellen used to do on her TV show, Be Kind. It's not just one of those, uh, kick-off phrases. I mean this from the bottom of my heart. No matter what you've gone through, no matter what you're involved with today, no matter what's happened to you or what is happening to you right now, as long as you still have breath, and if you're listening to this, you do, no matter what, there's always, always hope. Hang on to that hope and reach out. Look for somebody to help you. And if you have nobody, uh, you have a couple friends right here, uh, that you've heard from tonight, uh, that would love to be able to be assistants. You can text me at 832-396-6525 if you need somebody to listen to you. If you need counseling, uh, I do counseling free, never charged a dollar and never will, to as long as you need, uh, and I'll be glad to help you out.

[01:00:05] Speaker 2: There's always hope. Thank you so much. Join us right here next week for another edition from this beautiful city of Houston, Texas, of Breaking the Silence. God bless. Good night now.

[01:00:22] Speaker 1: (instrumental music) Thank you for listening to Breaking the Silence with Dr. Gregory Williams. To contact Dr. Williams, dial 832-396-6525 or email him at shatteredbythedarkness@gmail.com. And don't forget to join us each Sunday night at 8:00 PM central time, 6:00 PM Pacific, on VBS Radio Station 1 for the next episode of Breaking the Silence. (instrumental music)