[00:02] Speaker 1: (instrumental music plays) Welcome, my friends, to another episode of Bard's Rise. I am Michael Dean, your host. Tonight, we have Mike and Leah as guests. However, they are not here yet, because there's been, uh, I guess, a dust-up, as some might say, with respect to their properties. So, I am going to start without them. (sighs) First of all, thank you to all the subscribers and all the listeners. We truly do appreciate your support. Uh, if you also wish to support the show financially, you can do so on the page. So, now, the situation on the ground with what's going on with Mike and Leah. First, let me give you a bit of a background. Mike and Leah Dalton are basically the, the bread and butter of America. If you know them, you love them. They are just kind, warm, caring people that anyone, and I mean anyone, would be happy to have as friends and neighbors. They, after doing significant personal research, decided to claim their land patent, a federal land patent.

[02:57] Speaker 1: And there's a process that can be involved in that, uh, uh, with respect to research, et cetera. And we talked about this on some previous shows. There are, w- I have basically broken down the process into three steps, right, or three phases. The first, phase one, is the research phase, where you go and see if the property that you are currently on and hold some type of legal title to descends from a federal land patent. And I'll leave it for you to research what that is. There are other types of, of patents, or land grants, sometimes they're called. The states can do that as well. But they traced their title back to a federal land patent. And according to Michigan law, case law, from the highest court in Michigan, through chain of title, Mike and Leah, as well as anyone else who's in their position, owns what the original patentee owned, the first one that bought the property from the United States of America, from the US government, the federal government.

[04:18] Speaker 1: There's nothing that they had to do. There's no papers that they had to sign and file or post in order for them to have the same rights as the original patentees for each of their two properties. By operation of law, through the chain of title, they own that. Okay? And the case, uh, for that, I, I don't have the full title in front of me, but it's in the papers that you'll see in past shows. On almost all of the, the show pages, right, for each individual show, if you scroll down a little bit, a little bit, you will see various PDF documents that are uploaded, including legal papers that have been filed in each of their two complaints, as well as the appeals document for the Sixth Circuit that they filed. In those documents, you will see all the cases that I'm referring to now or have in the past. The case I'm referring to now is the Klais case, K-l-a-i-s.

[05:24] Speaker 1: There, the highest court, state court, in Michigan said that the current owners own, through chain of title, what the original patentees owned. And what does that mean? Well, if you look at federal, uh, federal case law y- from the US Supreme Court, it's a little antiquated, but it's still good law. Just like the federal Constitution is almost 200 and, uh, 250 years old, but it's still relevant, it still applies, it's still operative.Well, the same for this case that I'm about to mention, Fenn v. Holme, F-E-N-N versus H-O-L-M-E, M as in Mary. You, if you Google that case name, you'll come up, I'm sure, with it, and you could read for yourself. The US Supreme Court has held that federal land patent owners have a Seventh Amendment constitutional right to common law trial by jury. Maybe you don't need an actual jury to decide the issues, right, j- because juries decide questions of fact. Law courts, judges decide questions of law.

[06:49] Speaker 1: So if there's no question of fact and everything can be decided on the papers, well, there's no need to bother people and bring them in for, for trial, right? The judges say, "Look, this, the evidence is what it is, and this is what the law requires me to do because of this evidence." So as I was saying, the US Supreme Court has held that, uh, repeatedly, not just one case, repeatedly, that federal land patent holders have a Seventh Amendment right to a common law trial by jury. You may not need a jury. Maybe the law, the court can do it on, just on the papers. But what type of court? It's a common law court. And you need to understand the distinction between law and equity. Law, pretty straightforward, right? Equity is basically, well, what's fair. And what's fair depends on the situation that you're talking about. So they talk about, if you read the cases in, you know, the legal scholarships, there are many heads to equity because again, it all depends on the various circumstances.

[08:06] Speaker 1: In a court of law, which land patent holders are entitled to, equity, equitable title, is not allowed to come in and attack the legal title of a federal land patent. Mortgages, sheriff's deeds, whatever you get from a foreclosure, an afterwards, all of that is legal title. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All of that is equitable title. Mortgages, sheriff's deeds, et cetera, that's all equitable title. So what does that mean when you're in a law, uh, a court of law, right, a common law court in federal jurisdiction, a federal courthouse? That means that if you're saying, "I, as the federal land patent successor/owner at this time through chain of title, have superior title. The bank is trying to take my, my property. And they're trying to take it via a mortgage or a sheriff's deed. They're not allowed to do that." And the federal judge, if he follows federal law and the us- US Supreme Court precedent says, "You're right. Bank, whichever bank it is, go away.

[09:33] Speaker 1: They own the property through legal title." And that's what the Supreme Court specifically said in Fenn v. Holme. And towards the end of that decision, the US Supreme Court actually acknowledged there are some states out there that allow title through equitable means. Don't quote me on the exact words here, but I'm paraphrasing here. But essentially, the states allow equitable titles to attack legal titles, the chain of title, warranty deeds, quit claim deeds, bargain and sale deeds, right, and federal land patents. Those are all legal titles. States allow mortgages and sheriff's deeds to attack and actually win in those types of claims. And the US Supreme Court said that applies in state court, not in federal court. In federal court, we have to follow the Constitution and federal laws. You see? So where does that leave us as homeowners in various states? When the banks sue us, right, for, to try and foreclose on our federally, federally land patented properties, we lose.

[10:59] Speaker 1: We lose, and that's why Mike Dalton mentioned the, the figure, uh, and I think on the last show, one of the last two shows, over 40,500 homes had been foreclosed on in just that month. It's absolutely insane. And all of that, if those properties descended from federal land patents, that's all illegal. In fact, it's unconstitutional. The banks are robbing us, the people, property owners, they're robbing us blind. They're putting us in the poorhouses. They are making us their economic slaves with the consent of the states. And I'm gonna get into that a little bit more in a little bit. But none of this can happen if it wasn't for the state laws that have been passed that allow the banks to do this, to foreclose on properties that succeed from a federal land patent.Maybe they want to allow that to happen for grants or patents that they issued by the state. They're allowed to do that, sure. But not a federal land patent. No, no. Can't do it. But...

[12:27] Speaker 1: For whatever reason, this has not been enforced for over a hundred years, just because people have forgotten about it. Why? I don't know. There's lots of reasons for it. But it's starting to come back now. I assure you, it's gonna come back big. Wait until people find out about the Mike and Leah Dalton story. You will be absolutely appalled. Appalled. So, (sighs) as I said, they decided to engage in the federal land patent process. They went and they did the research and, as I said earlier, there was nothing for them to do except to acknowledge that, yes, this is a federal land patent and we can claim and do have those rights, right? Um, and that's what they did. I said, but then in addition to that, Mike and Leah decided to kind of put on a belt and suspenders. State law says, and if you look at the cases, it says that, um, you know, a deed is not valid until it's acknowledged and accepted or stuff like that, right? Notice, acknowledgement, uh, notice, uh, posting of deed, et cetera.

[13:55] Speaker 1: There's a whole process that you can do, and there are cases that speak about that, Michigan state cases. Unfortunately, I can't speak to any other state because I'm not involved in any other litigation, just Michigan. So I'm speaking about Michigan law. Michigan law says that there are things at times, depending on the circumstances, that people would have to do to secure to themselves the rights and benefits of either a deed or, um, well, specifically a deed, uh, that was either bequeathed to them through some relative that passed away, or maybe it was a bargain and sale, who knows? But in an abundance of caution, in an attempt to kind of like put on a belt and suspenders, Mike and Leah decided to file notices acceptance of their land patent and claim the forever benefits that are inherent in land patents, even though they didn't have to.

[15:07] Speaker 1: They stopped paying their mortgage after a while because they know that they, they had superior title, but unfortunately, they were caught in the state court system. So the bank foreclosed on their property. The sheriff came and kicked them off their, both of their properties, and in the process, at some point, they filed, uh, a lawsuit against the bank talking about the long-term holdings of their property, right? The possessory interest of their properties. And that's what is at issue with one of their lawsuits. It's called Dalton versus Choice One Bank, and the case number is 26cv163, and that's in the Western District of Michigan, WDM, as in Mary, I. If you plug that in there, you should be able to find the case. That case, uh, in addition to filing a First Amendment complaint, uh, the bank, Choice One Bank, filed a motion to dismiss. That motion is now fully briefed, and we're waiting for the court to render a decision, actually a report and recommendation on that motion.

[16:24] Speaker 1: In addition to that, we also filed a motion for partial summary judgment... for that case, saying we should win just on the papers. That motion is now fully briefed, and we're waiting for the court to render a report and recommendation with respect to that motion. In that lawsuit, we also filed a motion for preliminary injunction. The court set a scheduling order and, in effect, denied the motion for, actually it was a combined motion for a TRO, temporary restraining order, which is usually given in like hours, perhaps days. And in the alternative, a preliminary injunction, which is usually given within a few days, no more than a week, right? They come in for a quick hearing. Uh, there's certain things that you have to show, and it's kind of like temporary. "Let's just keep things the way it is.

[17:17] Speaker 1: Maintain the status quo until this case is resolved." Well, the court, in effect, denied the TR, that, that motion for a TRO/preliminary injunction by setting a scheduling order and putting it out for, I don't know, 30, 40 days. So because of that and because of the law, we filed an emergency appeal with the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, and that motion for a preliminary injunction has been briefed, and we're waiting for that court to render a decision on that motion. So if you're interested, those documents are hanging already on the show pages for the last two weeks, uh, at least, and then in addition to that, the- they, we also filed a second lawsuit, and that's against the state of Michigan.... as well as the governor, the assistant governor, who also happens to be the president of the state senate, uh, the Speaker of the House, Matt Hall, and, uh, the attorney gener- attorney general of Michigan, Nessl.

[18:27] Speaker 1: And that lawsuit, we're going directly after the state statutory scheme, uh, statutory framework, because it's unconstitutional. It denies federal land patent holders their Seventh Amendment rights as well as other rights. Um, and that mot- or those papers, (laughs) surprisingly, we actually got a motion to dismiss by four of the five defendants. And I couldn't help but wonder why they would fight that. I mean, if these elected representatives are supposed to support the people, wouldn't they want to jump on board and say, "Hey, wait a minute, we can help our constituents. We can make it so that the people are not debt slaves, so that the people stay on their properties and they don't have to be thrown out off of the family farm," et cetera. And that the property doesn't go to the banks, right? The forever greedy, never-ending greed of the banks. Nope. That's not what happened at all. They said, "Too bad. This is the s-" I'm paraphrasing here. "Too bad this is the state law.

[19:37] Speaker 1: Federal law has nothing to do with it. Get rid of this case." Absolutely flabbergasted. Couldn't believe it. But it speaks to what we've been dealing with for generations. Corrupt government officials, greedy banks that profit off of our misery, off of our debt, and that I'm sure influence the state legislatures to pass this type of legislation that puts us in debt slavery for generations, for generations. They've stolen so much from us. Wait until the people find out what's really going on here. So, okay, now that I've given you a legal background and kind of, like, framed the issues, uh, I'd like to bring on Mike and Leah. They recently posted in. As I said, there's been a recent dust-up. And, Mike and Leah, welcome to the show.

[20:35] Speaker 2: Hi, Michael. So Mike is not... He's... He'll be here in just a minute. Um, so he's still dealing with our situation. He'll be, he'll be here in just a minute. Um...

[20:47] Speaker 1: Okay.

[20:48] Speaker 2: Yeah. So should I just start right in with it? (laughs)

[20:52] Speaker 1: You tell me. You know, you, you have the floor. You do whatever you want.

[20:57] Speaker 2: Okay. Um, so I think we talked about, maybe the last show we were on, that we... I was debating on whether to put a sign up, um, on the property. Well, not on, not on that property. So I think we've told the listeners that we are, um, staying at the property next to it that is, um, my mom's property and her pro-

[21:19] Speaker 1: Okay, so if-

[21:20] Speaker 2: Go ahead.

[21:20] Speaker 1: If I could just back up a minute. So you're... You land patented two different properties. One was a former school and the other one was the home that you and Mike custom-built yourselves for your family. And you're talking about that home, the home property now.

[21:37] Speaker 2: Yes. Yep.

[21:38] Speaker 1: Okay.

[21:38] Speaker 2: The home property.

[21:38] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Go ahead. Please continue.

[21:40] Speaker 2: And... Okay. Um, and then Mike, Mike, he just joined us right now, so you wanna say hi?

[21:46] Speaker 3: Hey. Hello.

[21:47] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[21:47] Speaker 1: Hey, Michael. Welcome.

[21:49] Speaker 3: Hey.

[21:49] Speaker 2: Okay. Um, so yeah, so our house property butts right up to my mother's property. Um, and then actually, the property behind the house is a separate parcel that we own, um, separately from the house. So (laughs) we've got, like, lots of angles. Um, but anyway, so on that property, uh, there's the property line. My mom has a garden and it's all... It's pretty close to the line. What, what did you say, about how far?

[22:21] Speaker 3: Probably somewhere between six and 10 feet, somewhere in there.

[22:26] Speaker 2: And so we put a s- we put a, a big sign on the fence, um... Well, it was what, like, six-foot by nine-foot sign?

[22:36] Speaker 3: Yep, yep.

[22:36] Speaker 2: Um, stating that, you know, this was federal, federal property and, um, you know, basically, you know, buyer beware. If, you know, if you purchase this property, you will lose your money. And we put our case number on it. I mean, it was, it was huge. Actually, we shared it on X, so... (laughs) Um, so anyway, we had that up yesterday. There was a lot-

[23:01] Speaker 1: Okay.

[23:01] Speaker 2: ... of traffic. Go ahead.

[23:02] Speaker 1: It... I'm sorry. I just want to clarify something. So the... your home that was foreclosed on and the bank now has possession of it and ownership under state law, which is what you're fighting in federal, uh, court, right? You're saying, no, you actually own it under federal law. Your mom owns a piece of, uh, property that butts up against that, and you and Mike also have another piece of property from... A- on a different side or a different, uh, angle that also butts up to that property. And you put this sign up on a fence presumably that's six or eight feet within, uh, the property line.

[23:45] Speaker 3: Correct.

[23:45] Speaker 1: Right? Right.

[23:46] Speaker 3: With her mom, yes.

[23:46] Speaker 1: So you're not trespassing into the old-

[23:49] Speaker 3: No, no.

[23:49] Speaker 1: ... you know, foreclosed property at all, right?

[23:51] Speaker 3: Right.

[23:51] Speaker 1: This is either yours or your mom's property and you're entitled to put up what you want.

[23:57] Speaker 3: Right.

[23:57] Speaker 2: Correct.

[23:58] Speaker 1: Okay. Go ahead.

[24:00] Speaker 2: Okay. So, um, so we put that up, uh, yesterday, you know, like, I don't know, it was probably, like, 5:00 or so. There's, there was a lot of traffic. Um, you know, they were doing showings, I think, like, every hour. And so we had that up.... um, yesterday and then-

[24:16] Speaker 4: And Michael, sorry bud.

[24:17] Speaker 2: Go ahead.

[24:18] Speaker 4: We're trying to do this just because we're, we're, we don't want somebody to, to get it. I mean, obviously we want somebody to, to buy and move in, but we don't, we don't want somebody to get it and then lose it. You know, then they're going to be out. That's gonna, that's out on just a little individual, little family comes in there and gets it. We don't want that to happen to them. You know? Yeah This is a big bank you're fighting, we're fighting with, and they're just gonna give it, you know, sell it to somebody? They're fi- uh, in a fire sale just... And that's all we're trying to do is protect, you know, the families coming in.

[24:44] Speaker 4: That's, that's, that's what we're doing this for

[24:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So if, if I can just, uh, a little background here. Uh, after they foreclosed, after Choice One Bank foreclosed unconstitutionally on Mike and Leah's properties, uh, they put them up for sale rather quickly. And it, it doesn't take much to, to investigate and they find out that they're basically holding fire sales for these two properties. The pro- the school, which is worth s- seven figures, I think, or more, right?

[25:17] Speaker 4: Yep, I would, I would think so. (laughs)

[25:20] Speaker 1: Uh, they... They're selling it for, like, $350,000.

[25:24] Speaker 4: Yep.

[25:25] Speaker 1: And then the home, uh, which is also worth over seven figures because you guys custom built it and kept it in such meticulous condition over the years, that's being sold for $500,000, list price $500,000, with a note of "make your best offer by a certain date." And that tells me that the bank is, knows that they're gonna lose, but they're trying to get rid of this hot potato onto some unsuspecting buyer. They're holding fire sales, you know, dirt cheap prices, "Look at this great property," and then once they cut that deal, they, Choice One Bank, believes that they're out of it completely. And now the person that bought it, whoever buys those properties, is gonna be left holding the bag under the legal doctrine of Caveat Emptor. Look that up.

[26:18] Speaker 2: Yep.

[26:18] Speaker 1: Caveat emptor, it means let the buyer beware. And in Michigan State, Caveat emptor applies to foreclosure sales. When you go and buy a house that's been foreclosed, that counts as Caveat, or that, that's included under the doctrine of Caveat emptor. So when Mike and Leah win their lawsuits, and they will, all right? It just depends, like Mike said, at what level are they going to win? Is that the District Court level, the Circuit Court of Appeals level, or the US Supreme Court level? They will win, and then they're gonna get their properties back, and whoever bought the houses, those properties are gonna be thrown off by the US Marshals with no recourse, certainly not against (laughs) Michael and, and Leah, and probably not against Choice One Bank either. So Mike says he's trying to protect not just their home, because it's their properties, but also some unsuspecting buyer from coming in and eventually getting the rug pulled out from under them.

[27:23] Speaker 1: So thank you for that opportunity to explain that, Michael. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm sorry for interrupting. Please go on.

[27:29] Speaker 2: (laughs) Um, okay, so, so we headed up on the property, um, and then, and actually then last night... What, what time do you, would you say that was, like, 8:00 or 8:30? I don't know.

[27:42] Speaker 4: It was still daylight. I can't remember. Yeah.

[27:43] Speaker 2: Yeah. And a little bit earlier, but anyway, there was a, a realtor. We were sitting at my mom's on the back, um, patio area, and we saw a guy start walking, like, kinda, I mean, how far?

[27:57] Speaker 4: He's probably 150, 200 feet way into her property, into, you know, Leah's mother's property.

[28:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, so we... You know, Mike and I went out there pretty quickly, met him, and, you know, he was a realtor. He gave us his card and everything and he's like, "Well, I'm just trying to figure out the property line." And I thought, "Well, uh, why would..." You know, I mean, sh- first of all, shouldn't realtors know before they go show, you know, have a showing? Shouldn't they know what the property line is? Um, like-

[28:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, they should, one would think.

[28:29] Speaker 2: ... I mean, he was way...

[28:31] Speaker 4: Well, you know, Mi- Michael, I'm a hunter and I have a, a, a, a app on my phone that's called OnX Hunt, and I can... I got it for Michigan. I can find every property line in Michigan, every single property line, and it's within just a couple feet. It's, it's accurate as can be.

[28:44] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[28:44] Speaker 4: So every realtor should have this.

[28:47] Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I agree. I know. I've seen them back in New York when, uh, I was looking for, for properties over there. It's fairly common within the industry. So, yeah.

[28:59] Speaker 2: So then we talked to him and then he, you know, he went and then, um, I think that was probably the last showing for the night. Well, then we hadn't gone over there until, what, it was this afternoon. Actually, our daughter went over there and she texted, "Mom, it's, the, the sign is gone." We're like, "What?" So we went over there. We realized the sign was gone. Like, you could see we had a... It was all zip ti- had, um, zip ties to the fence all over. They had just cut the zip ties. The zip ties were just laying on the ground, and the sign was gone.

[29:31] Speaker 2: So-

[29:31] Speaker 1: Okay, let me just, let me just clarify this. I hate to sound like a lawyer, but when you say-

[29:35] Speaker 2: No, go ahead.

[29:35] Speaker 1: ... "she went over there," she didn't go to the house. She went to where the sign was located?

[29:41] Speaker 2: Yes.

[29:42] Speaker 1: Okay.

[29:42] Speaker 2: Which is on my mom's property.

[29:44] Speaker 1: Thank you for that clarification. Please go on.

[29:46] Speaker 2: Yes, okay. And we're making sure we're, we are not go- stepping over, just so everyone's clear. We are, we are staying on my mom's property. Um, so we decided we were gonna make another one quick (laughs) because, uh, cars were coming up and down the driveway again. So, uh, my two daughters and I worked on the sign, you know. We went and got it hung. And then, um...Oh, we, and so then we actually, as we were hanging it, um, two people came out. It was a realtor and a lady, she was showing it. They came right over. They actually wanted to know all about it. They took pictures of it, we explained it to them, they were very interested. Um, and actually, the one lady was appreciative 'cause she said she was getting a divorce, and we were telling her, like, if she were to buy it, she would lose out, and she was very appreciative that she got that information. Um, and the realtor was very... She was very interested in it.

[30:48] Speaker 2: And s- it was kind of funny because at the end, she's like, "Good luck to you guys. You guys gotta..." She's like, "You need to call this news channel, this news channel-"

[30:55] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[30:55] Speaker 2: "...you gotta get coverage." She said, "You gotta get this on TikTok, you gotta get this on X."

[31:00] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[31:00] Speaker 2: And I'm like, "Well, we just shared it on X yesterday."

[31:03] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[31:03] Speaker 2: She's like, "You've got to get coverage on this." So I'm like, "This is funny 'cause we were, we were just talking about that with you, uh, this morning."

[31:10] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[31:10] Speaker 2: Um, and so, anyway, so then, then they left, and then another... You'll have to tell that 'cause I had left. There was another-

[31:20] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[31:20] Speaker 2: Go ahead.

[31:20] Speaker 4: Yeah, then there was another realtor, um, a male, and he had a couple with him, a young family, and he, and he was really good too. He was, he was really nice, and he's... So, I went on to, to explain to him, I said, you know, just like I just explained to, to you and the audience, Michael, like, "We are, we're just, we're, we don't want a young family like you guys," and I, I pu- you know, I pointed to him. "We don't want you guys to, to get it and then be without. You're gonna, you know, and lose out." I said, "If anything, even if it didn't work out for us, you, they should be letting people know that th- there is a federal case right now, you know? Even if it didn't go in our favor, just tell them that there is a chance something could happen and you could lose this house." They should be, they, they should... I mean, they, they need to disclose that. But nobody knows anything about it.

[32:06] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[32:07] Speaker 4: Everybody we've talked to, nobody knows. That's the first they've heard. But they're very interested in it. If, if there's one thing I, I've realized over the last day talking to these realtors, they are so interested in, in hearing this that, um... An- and these, and the realtors have been really, really good to talk to, I think. Um, but they, he, he said, "Well, we appreciate you telling us this," and he said, "I, I," he said, "kind of, we're gonna awkwardly, this is gonna awkward, but we're gonna walk in your house (laughs) and look at it." And I said, "That's fine. You guys, you guys do what you gotta do. I just wanna make you guys, we wanna make sure you guys are aware." And they were thankful, very thankful that we, uh, we brought that up.

[32:49] Speaker 3: Right. It's great information to have.

[32:51] Speaker 4: Yup.

[32:52] Speaker 2: So then-

[32:52] Speaker 3: So, what happened next?

[32:54] Speaker 2: Well, so then we came in and we actually were working on a couple more signs because I wanted to give people information, um, h- how can they find out more? So, my (laughs) daughters and I were, were making a couple more signs, um, that we were trying to give them, you know, for more information, go to goldusttitle.com, and then we were saying BBS Radio. We gave them the, we were gon- gonna give them the link to BBS Radio and Barnes Rice and, you know, Homesteading with Mike and Leah, and, um, we, we don't have that up yet because we took a break, we came in to eat dinner, and then it just started pouring rain.

[33:35] Speaker 4: Rain, yeah.

[33:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, pouring rain, and then, um, Mike looked out the window 'cause you can see from my mom's house. He's like, "I think that, I think somebody just took it down." And so, Mike and I pretty much ran over there, and so did our, our daughter, one of our daughters and our son. And, um, (laughs) there was a police in the driveway of our, of the house. We'll call it the house, I guess. There was a, there was a police and then there was another lady, and we came running and we said, "Where is the sign?" And the lady just, you know, stood there. And I said, we said it again, "Where is the..." And we recorded it all. "Where is the sign?" And she said, "The police, um, cut it down this morning." And we were like, "What?" "Well," we said, "we put another sign up. That was cut down this morning." I said, "Where's the sign you took down right now?" And the police came and he was very good.

[34:36] Speaker 2: He was so good, and, um, and then I asked her, I said, "Who are you?" I said, "Who do you work for?" She goes, "Who do you think I work for? Choice One Bank." She was very-

[34:48] Speaker 4: Yeah, very snooty.

[34:49] Speaker 2: ...yeah, very snooty. And I said, "I want the sign back," and she opened up the back of her trunk and in front of the police, she pulled it out and she came and gave it back to us. And she was saying that we were trespassing, and, you know, no. You know? And so then, Mike went on to say, "No, there's a survey done. We are not trespassing," and he explained, explained to the officer, you know, and then she went in her car and she was making phone calls. And then the police had to go, um, make some phone calls, I guess. And then, um, and, and then, so prior, earlier, my mom had called, it was probab- around 4:30-ish, she had called the police, the local police department. She had to leave a message, but she said that there was, she wanted to file a report because somebody had trespassed on her property and they stole a sign. And so she left that in the message. She hadn't talked to anybody yet.

[35:49] Speaker 2: So then, when we were talking to this police officer, he s- you know, asked if my mom would want to make a report, and of course she did. So then he came over, and that's what we were just working on, why we were late getting on the show. Um, and he took all the information, and so we, we talked with him and said, because the, the Choice One Bank lady said that the police, and it was the Stockbridge Police Department, right, that came?... cut it down. This is what she said, and he said he didn't know.

[36:20] Speaker 2: And so I asked him, uh-

[36:22] Speaker 4: But it was not him.

[36:23] Speaker 2: He wasn't-

[36:24] Speaker 4: He wasn't there this morning.

[36:24] Speaker 2: Yeah. He wasn't there, so he wasn't sure. And I asked him for the, for the report number, and he did give it to us. Um, so we'll have to, we'll have to look that up. Um, so then he, he... Then he came over to my mom's, and my mom, you know, made her report. Um, what else did she? She said that she did wanna press charges, um, against Choice One Bank, that lady. Uh, what else?

[36:53] Speaker 4: I think that was it. I mean, he didn't say too much.

[36:55] Speaker 2: He didn't say too-

[36:56] Speaker 4: He was pretty-

[36:56] Speaker 2: He stayed pre- Yeah, he stayed pretty neutral.

[36:58] Speaker 4: Yep.

[36:59] Speaker 2: Oh, we did explain to him that Sheriff Wrigglesworth is aware of the property and that we had sent him, you know, way back, we had sent him, um, you know, those strongly worded No Trespassing sign notices. And, you know, we said that he, you know, Sheriff Wrigglesworth reached out to the Stockbridge Police Department, they're all well aware. And he, he... I don't know if he's new, I'm not sure, 'cause I didn't, we didn't know him. Um, but I mean, he was taking note of it. And I think he was very intrigued when we said that Sheriff Wrigglesworth wouldn't come on our property, because it was f- you know, that we had a... It was federal property. And so he was very intrigued, I think, by that. But, um...

[37:44] Speaker 1: Right. Well, federally land patented.

[37:46] Speaker 4: Land patent, right. Right.

[37:46] Speaker 1: Like, the federal government doesn't own it.

[37:47] Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

[37:47] Speaker 4: Right.

[37:48] Speaker 1: Yes.

[37:48] Speaker 2: Yes.

[37:48] Speaker 4: Federal land patent.

[37:49] Speaker 2: Yep. Um, let's see. Was there anything else?

[37:53] Speaker 4: Um...

[37:55] Speaker 2: So, that's what... I mean, we were just (laughs) literally just wer- were actually soaking wet.

[37:59] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[37:59] Speaker 2: I'm, like, shivering because-

[38:01] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[38:01] Speaker 2: ... we're, we were just in the rain, drenched for, like, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. Um...

[38:09] Speaker 4: But, but my question to him was, so they, so they asked Leah's mom, "So who do you wanna press charges on?" And, and she said, "Well, the lady, uh, and Choice, Choice One Bank." And I said, "But is, is that who owns it? Because we're getting conflicting information now, Michael." We, we have heard that this HP Foreclosure Solutions own it. We er- heard, um, Choice One Bank owns it. We don't even know who owns it.

[38:37] Speaker 4: So, that's why I said, "We're trying to figure out now who owns that property."

[38:43] Speaker 1: Well, that's a good question, because you had two foreclosures on that one property.

[38:50] Speaker 4: That's right.

[38:50] Speaker 1: Choice One Bank, right, foreclosed on the second mortgage, but then HP Solutions and th- and, and Choice One Bank is the one that moved to have you evicted.

[39:04] Speaker 4: Right.

[39:04] Speaker 1: So, when you file in federal court, you file the, the claim to quiet title because they were the one who was claiming that they, uh, that looking to put you out of possession.

[39:15] Speaker 4: That's right.

[39:16] Speaker 1: And-

[39:16] Speaker 4: And they're the ones that did put us out of possession.

[39:19] Speaker 1: Yeah. And the, the purpose of a claim to quiet title is, is to prevent you from having to, to sue any, everybody, like, the whole world, that's gonna try and claim your property.

[39:34] Speaker 4: Yes.

[39:36] Speaker 1: You know? So, it's a public hearing. HP, uh, even though they foreclosed on it and they're not a party to the quiet title action, they don't have to be, uh, because it's Choice One Bank that's taken all the affirmative actions against you, and they're the ones that's in your face. And what you do against Choice One Bank will be applicable to the entire world, including HP F- Foreclosure.

[39:59] Speaker 4: Yes, yes.

[39:59] Speaker 1: So, whether or not they, which one of them claim title under state law is, uh, you know, brown side out, green side out, who cares? Because the actual true owners of that, under both federal and state law, is you and Leah. You are federal-

[40:21] Speaker 4: Right.

[40:21] Speaker 1: ... land patent holders, successors. Under Michigan case law, which everybody who showed up in, in your lawsuit says this isn't... Federal law doesn't apply to transfers of property. You know, state law applies. Yes, but within, with certain qualifications. I don't wanna get too detailed here. But if that's the case, then you go and read what the state law says. I mentioned this case earlier, before you guys came on, Klais, K-L-A-I-S. According to the highest court in Michigan, you two own what the original f- land patentee owned for each of your two properties. And that means that nobody can challenge your ownership with equitable title. You have, you are successors to the federal land patent, which means that you hold that federal land patent and all the rights that go along with it. You, nothing proves higher title than a federal land patent. Everything else has to give way.

[41:29] Speaker 1: So, maybe the states, as the US Supreme Court has recognized, allow banks and other mortgagers to come in and attack a federal land patent with equitable or lesser titles, and that goes on in state courts. But as the US Supreme Court said in Fenn v Home, that doesn't apply in federal court. So, everybody that's getting foreclosed in state court, you're getting foreclosed on because you're in the wrong court. You need to file a claim to either quiet title or afterwards, right? If you've already been foreclosed and, and thrown off the property, whether it's a private home, an apartment, a, um, a, a family farm, it doesn't matter, you can still file an action in ejectment in your loc- in your federal district court-And have whoever's in that property thrown off by the US Marshals if, if, you are a successor to a federal land patent. So, I strongly encourage everybody out there to start doing the research on whether or not.

[42:39] Speaker 1: And we've done a show on this in, uh, in the past, phase one, researched land patent. That show, uh, re-ran it last week because we think it's so important, and I'm sure we'll re-run it again because you really need to understand that. Do your homework, and I assure you this, this case will be resolved in Mike and Leah's favor. They will win, they will be the first ones in the entire country, and they will set the precedent for everybody else. Guys, any comments? What else do you want to say?

[43:14] Speaker 2: Um, (sighs) just trying to think what else.

[43:18] Speaker 4: Well, we were talking, Michael, you talked earlier about the property and the value. And one of the things that we talked to both realtors about, uh, that we ran into today is, um, I said, I mean, I, I, we were talking and I said, "Just look at the price." I said, you know, "It's $500,000 for this? Really?" And the, the family, the husband, the wife, I, I'm assuming they're husband and wife-

[43:41] Speaker 1: Sure.

[43:41] Speaker 4: ... and the realtor were like, "Yeah, yeah, this, we figured something is up because this is..." I mean, they knew it. The value, the realtor's like, "Yes, the value of this house is way, way greater than this." Both the realtors said that to us. So, this value, like you said earlier, they're trying to fire sale it. But even the realtors confirmed it with us that, um, yeah, y- this is... And I said, "That's why there's been 50 to 100 vehicles, and I'm not exaggerating, not exaggerating one bit, up and down that driveway in the last day." 50 to 100.

[44:14] Speaker 1: Good, good.

[44:15] Speaker 4: Coming to look at the house.

[44:16] Speaker 2: And then, and then we saw, our daughter found too online, where it says, um, "Offer deadline Sunday, March 29th at 9:00 AM. Opportunity like this does not come around often."

[44:30] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[44:30] Speaker 2: "Incredible foreclosure offering, yep, outstanding value, with the heavy lifting already done." And then it goes on to explain. But it's showing that they have to put an offer, an offer deadline Sunday, March 29th at 9:00 AM. So that's, I'm, yeah.

[44:46] Speaker 1: Interesting.

[44:48] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[44:48] Speaker 1: Interesting.

[44:50] Speaker 2: S- so-

[44:51] Speaker 1: It just shows you, they're trying to create, generate this excitement. Ooh, th- what is it? Fear of, FOMO? Fear of missing out?

[44:59] Speaker 4: Yep.

[44:59] Speaker 2: Yes.

[44:59] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[44:59] Speaker 1: We, we need to get on it. Get on it now. Get on it now. Hurry. Don't let it pass. Yeah.

[45:05] Speaker 4: Yep.

[45:06] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[45:07] Speaker 1: They are absolutely heartless. Ruthless. They couldn't care less ab- about people. I'm talking about the banks.

[45:16] Speaker 4: Well, also, Michael, we were doing a little bit of research on, you know, where's our house? Who's listed it? Where's this from? And, um, found a lot of, lot of info out about the listing person, the person that has it actually listed. And, I mean, she has addresses, it looks like, in other states even.

[45:32] Speaker 2: Yeah. And I'm, I wanna put, put their-

[45:35] Speaker 4: I think we said okay.

[45:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanna put the name, yes, I do wanna put the name out. It's E-

[45:38] Speaker 4: Michael, I mean, you guys think that's okay? Put the name out?

[45:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. I mean, she-

[45:42] Speaker 2: It's online, it's online.

[45:42] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, it's online. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[45:43] Speaker 2: It's online.

[45:43] Speaker 1: Yep, yep.

[45:43] Speaker 4: It's public information.

[45:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, yes, it's Epiq, E-P-I-Q-U-E, Realty. And her name is Krista, K-R-I-S-T-A, Jelske, J-E-L-S-K-E. And it's out of Rochester, Michigan. And it's her, it's very interesting, (laughs) the website. Um, yeah. So I wanted to put that one out there.

[46:09] Speaker 4: Wait, how did you say you found her?

[46:10] Speaker 1: So, give us a little more, if you can, about this r- real estate firm. So, is it just her or is there a big office like RE/MAX?

[46:20] Speaker 2: Well, it looks like it's v- it's, it's big. Um, let me see. Something-

[46:26] Speaker 1: In other words, do they have a bunch of agents listed or is it just a, i- does it seem like a one person show?

[46:32] Speaker 2: Uh, no, I think that there's a, there's a bunch.

[46:34] Speaker 1: Okay.

[46:35] Speaker 2: And even at the end, yeah, what did it say at the end, in the bottom? I don't have it pulled up here. Um, Beverly, or-

[46:41] Speaker 4: Yeah, like, y- y- uh, you, you-

[46:42] Speaker 2: I saw it. What did it say?

[46:43] Speaker 4: She showed me yesterday, it said Beverly Hills, California.

[46:46] Speaker 2: Beverly Hills, California.

[46:46] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[46:46] Speaker 2: And-

[46:46] Speaker 4: She had her address in Beverly Hills, California.

[46:48] Speaker 2: That was like, yeah, on her website. And I thought, "Well, where is she? Is she Rochester?"

[46:52] Speaker 4: Right.

[46:52] Speaker 2: Or is she... So I don't know what that...

[46:55] Speaker 4: What we're learning is there's nothing, there's nothing normal that has happened with this house. (laughs) Everything is so abnormal. Michael, this is, just this, this real, I mean, for this agent to be, you know, basically two hours from this property and have a m- I- I'm, we're assuming that this was the correct thing, but have an address in Beverly Hills, California too. You would think it'd be realistic with somebody a little bit more local maybe. I mean, I, I know everything's online now, but still, um, not California.

[47:30] Speaker 1: Yeah. That seems odd.

[47:32] Speaker 4: Very.

[47:32] Speaker 1: That seems odd. And it sounds like she's doing all these high-end homes, and then your home, which is a beautiful home, but it sounds like those other ones are multimillion dollar.

[47:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, she had some, yeah.

[47:44] Speaker 4: Some multimillion dollar ones she did.

[47:45] Speaker 2: I mean, yeah. She did have some basic ones too, but-

[47:47] Speaker 4: A few basic ones.

[47:48] Speaker 2: But yeah, her website's very prestigious. It's, yeah.

[47:51] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[47:54] Speaker 1: You know, it kind of reminds me of the conversation we had, uh, on the last show involving HP Foreclosure, right? Uh, we mentioned them earlier, they're the ones that foreclosed on the first line mortgage, uh, for the home. And how you tried to contact them, you sent them letters to the address that was on their letterhead that they sent to you. And those letters that you sent were returned as undeliverable.

[48:24] Speaker 2: Well, actually the letterhead they sent us, there was no address. There was-

[48:29] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[48:30] Speaker 2: ... no.

[48:30] Speaker 5: Nothing.

[48:31] Speaker 2: It said, at the top it said, um, BSJ, um, BSJ Real Estate, um, and then in the, in the body of the letter it, it said that HP f-, um, HP Foreclosure, yeah, Foreclosure Solution and BSJ Real Estate were, what did it say, in possession or whatever. And then at the, and this was when they contacted us because, to do an inspection, and they gave us some dates and then they said, "If we don't hear from you, we're assuming you're, um, uh..."

[49:03] Speaker 5: That you declined the inspection.

[49:05] Speaker 2: That he, that you declined the inspection. And then he just stepped... Ben S. Jordan, he just put his phone number there and that was it. So then we-

[49:13] Speaker 5: No, no addresses anywhere for either.

[49:15] Speaker 2: There was no add- for either place. We just tried to Google it. And so then I found him in, in Jackson and I sent... (laughs) I think he got, like, four letters because we did, we did just regular mail and then we did certified, and then those all came back. And then with HP Foreclosure we did a certified, that came back, um, but then we did the regular and that one did not. So I'm assuming that one was the right address. But I fou- so then I did, I just sent some more letters this week, but, ooh, and I found a different address, um, so I don't know if he was at that address, but I did find this interesting. Um, we found where this Benjamin S. Jordan, he was the agent for BS, BSJ Real Estate LLC, and then there was a document done in January of this year, end of January of this year. He was the agent and then it said he, he put it over to this Christopher O. Meade and put it over to him.

[50:23] Speaker 2: I thought, "Well, that's weird."

[50:25] Speaker 5: The agent.

[50:26] Speaker 2: Agent.

[50:26] Speaker 5: Yep.

[50:27] Speaker 2: So I don't know what that was all about. But then I found BSJ Real Estate Investments, LLC, and if you look, there, there is multiple. Like, it's a web. It's a web, and they're all, they all work together. And then, I mean, even, hmm, you found the research, found this, you know, phone number that listed to a beautiful home in Florida, um...

[50:54] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. BSJ Villas or something like that, right? You can rent the, the, the villas down in, in Florida. And I also found that, uh, BSJ is listed or affiliated with several properties, um, most of them, from what I recall, in Michigan, and I can't help but wonder how many of those did he acquire through foreclosure.

[51:20] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[51:20] Speaker 1: And at some point, I, we, someone will reach out to those people and say, "Hey, don't get rid of your deeds. If you want, I'll buy them from you." Because I know once this case settles, whoever holds those deeds is gonna be able to go back and kick out everybody that's, uh, that, the supposed owners of those properties that he got through foreclosure. And I'll bet you dollars to cumbers that he still owns those properties, whether individually or through some LLC whatever, he will wind up taking it in the pocket when every- when all the dust settles. Those foreclosures will go back to the people that were foreclosed on. I promise you that. I promise you.

[52:10] Speaker 2: Yeah. And, you know, it's just enough's enough. Like, these big corporations, uh, enough. And they just, you know, they just are preying on people a- and, you know, and everybody's just struggling. They're struggling just to get by, and then you have these big, these corporations. I just, I just don't see how people... How do you live with yourself? Like, you go to these, and then you go to these foreclosure sales and you just, they're just piranhas, you know?

[52:34] Speaker 2: They don't, and they don't-

[52:35] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[52:35] Speaker 2: ... have a heart at all. They just take, take, take, and then it's for their benefit, you know? And I, and it's a, it's a web. Like, they just, they're all-

[52:44] Speaker 5: Absolutely.

[52:45] Speaker 2: ... in it together, the banks, the, the foreclosure, you know, HP, the, the realty companies, realtor company. Like, they're all, they're all, they all work together. And-

[52:56] Speaker 1: And this-

[52:57] Speaker 2: ... and, yeah.

[52:57] Speaker 1: Go ahead.

[52:58] Speaker 2: Go ahead. I was just gonna say, and they just do this to people that are just trying to survive. They're just trying to live. I just, I don't know. I, I just, they just don't have a heart.

[53:09] Speaker 1: Yeah. And th- I was gonna say you can't forget the state elected officials who passed the law that allow this to happen instead of enforcing federal law.

[53:20] Speaker 5: Right.

[53:21] Speaker 1: Right? So I, I lay the blame of all of this at their feet more so than the ruthless banks, et cetera, and that whole industry, because the elected officials were elected to protect the people, not to sell them out to the banks and all these other money-hungry, you know, entities. They're supposed to protect and serve the people with good legislation, not legislation that sells them down the river and makes them and their children and so on economic slaves. So, anyway, folks, uh, we're almost out of time. I'm gonna give you guys the parting shots.

[54:06] Speaker 2: I don't know. I think, (laughs) I think this is starting to get interesting. (laughs)

[54:13] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

[54:13] Speaker 2: I think, uh, yeah. I, definitely.

[54:17] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[54:18] Speaker 2: Um, and we'll, we'll, uh, we'll go back and put these signs back up, um, if it's stopped raining. I'm not sure yet. But...

[54:28] Speaker 6: Yeah, because they were still having showings. As we're speaking-

[54:31] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[54:31] Speaker 6: ... right now, they were doing more showings, I'm assuming, all weekend, especially if it says Sunday's the deadline, so...

[54:37] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

[54:40] Speaker 4: And you know, Michael, this... We talked to a, um, a lady the other day, um, that reached out to us a couple weeks ago, and she said, you know, this is very strange. She said typically, it's like... She said, "You, you, you typically have, um, one foreclosure." She said she's been doing this for 27 years and has never seen this, and then she talked to somebody, called us the next day and said they said that they've seen it one other time in, in their entire time of 40 years. But she said it's like a tax sale. Like if a... If you foreclose of a ta... If you foreclose 'cause of a, a tax on not paying your property taxes, they foreclose that, all other debts are wiped. That's it, uh, on that property. If there's anything else owed, that's, it's wiped. They get the money. And that's what she was kind of saying with that, so. Like I said, everything's very, very strange with ours.

[55:27] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[55:28] Speaker 4: They're doing -

[55:28] Speaker 1: Well, I just got the... I'm sorry to, to cut you off. I just got the one-minute warning. I'm about to get-

[55:33] Speaker 4: Okay.

[55:33] Speaker 1: ... hooked from BBS, and I just want to say, folks, next week, uh, we're gonna have a, a little change-up to the homesteading program. We're gonna have a special guest, Kelly from Michigan, and she's gonna talk to us about the new Quantum Financial system. It's big, huge, and it's coming. Before we know it, it's gonna be here and it's gonna wipe out all this Federal Reserve debt note stuff. And, uh, yeah, please be... To tune in. It's gonna be a great show.

[56:06] Speaker 4: That'll be a great show.

[56:06] Speaker 1: Until then... Yeah, that's gonna be great. I'm looking forward to it. It's gonna probably just, um... Well, you guys are always invited. Uh, I'll leave it up to you if you want to join or not. Probably just me and Kelly, and, uh, if you're working for the Stockbridge Police Department, y'all can stand by. Wait till see, you see what's coming. And Choice One Bank as well. So with that, thank you, everybody. Thank you.

[56:33] Speaker 3: Whoa. Whoa. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Hey, hey, hey, hey.