[00:00] Speaker 1: No taxation without representation. Two hundred years of exploitation in the capital of this nation. No, no, no, no, no. No representation in the capital of this nation. 200 years of exploitation. Give the people their right to vote. Someone asked me, "Was it true, the voting rights of the district were long overdue?"

[00:35] Speaker 2: That was Sweet Honey in the Rock with Give the People the Right to Vote. Good evening and welcome to Shadow Politics, an hour-long grassroots talk show, which is on a mission to make America think again. I'm your host, Michael D. Brown, United States Senator Emeritus, and along with my amazing co-host, Liberty Jones, we are interviewing the people who are making it happen. Not always in front of the camera, but always ahead of the curve. We're not gonna tell you how to feel or who to vote for. We're just putting the information out there because a vote is a terrible thing to waste. Be- and it's what goes on in the shadows that really (laughs) makes the world go around. I'm sorry. So come, listen, and learn, because a vote is a terrible thing to waste and the m- and now more than ever, we need everyone listening, learning, and engaged if we're gonna make America sane again. Got a question?

[01:34] Speaker 2: Call in at 888-627-6008 and we're just, I'm just thrilled to have with me again, uh, Admiral Joe Sestak, um, tonight we're not... Liberty Jones is not with us tonight, she's on travel, so it's just me and the admiral. And le- and, and in case you've been living under a rock and you don't know who this guy is, he was a former presidential candidate. Uh, the youngest, I'm sorry, (laughs) the, the highest ranking military official elected to Congress. Served two terms for the people of Pennsylvania. He has a PhD. He, he, he now works with, uh, in science education and I don't even know what to call him. I don't know whether to call him Admiral, congressman, or doctor, since, uh, uh, y- you should leave a few titles for other people, Admiral.

[02:28] Speaker 2: But, but-

[02:29] Speaker 3: Well-

[02:29] Speaker 2: W- uh, uh-

[02:30] Speaker 3: ... your tit-

[02:32] Speaker 2: Go ahead. I'm sorry.

[02:33] Speaker 3: ... My favorite, my favorite title was Dad. So, uh-

[02:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[02:36] Speaker 3: ... Joe does very well. (laughs)

[02:38] Speaker 2: Wow. That, that's great. And can I ask you, just since you brought it up, how many kids do you have?

[02:44] Speaker 3: She was the only one.

[02:45] Speaker 2: Only one? Yo. Which would, just again, uh, proves how smart you are. I made the mistake-

[02:50] Speaker 3: That's, that's-

[02:50] Speaker 2: ... of letting the children outnumber the adults and, and there was chaos in my house. So, uh-

[02:57] Speaker 3: I don't know.

[02:58] Speaker 2: Uh-

[02:58] Speaker 3: We were-

[02:58] Speaker 2: I hope my wife's not listening. I-

[03:01] Speaker 3: We were talking-

[03:01] Speaker 2: But anyway.

[03:02] Speaker 3: We were t- we were talking a little before I came on about being a sailor and overseas and all. I didn't get married, Senator, until 49. I met my, uh, wife, however, when I was, uh, 41. I proposed to her within four or five days, and eight years later, she said yes.

[03:21] Speaker 2: Well, you know, you gotta give it to a lady that takes her time to make up her mind, you know? But obviously she made a great choice and, and, uh, yeah, I was the sa- same way. My brother was a military person, and when I had my first child at 40 years old, he said to me, "What the hell are you doing? You're too old for this nonsense." But-

[03:42] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[03:42] Speaker 2: ... but I digress. Uh, we've got a lot going on in the Middle East these days, and, uh, but first I'd like to start, you know, you have such expertise, I really want your advice on, on this stuff. But first I wanna start with the op-ed that you wrote and, uh, the statement you made that just astounded me that we're a second tier military power. Can you explain that to our, to our, our, uh, listeners what you mean by that?

[04:14] Speaker 3: Yes, gladly. Um, s- uh, I was very fortunate in the US Navy. Um, I got to work for S- President Clinton at the White House in National, uh, at the National Security Council where I was responsible for the oversight and development of his national security strategy. And he said that every issue ha- has a domestic side and a foreign policy side, and national security is a combination of both of them. Number two, what he said is, we need to have an executive order that begins, for the very first time 1995, to protect America's infrastructure from cyber attacks. So ratchet ahead to this op-ed that you, um, sp- just spoke about that was published this week. I, uh, made it very clear that the United States military has lost every war game over the last several years against China, because our networks go down immediately. And part of that reason is that we outsourced our national security to China. I mean, there's 45,000 companies in China that provide our US Department of Defense parts.

[05:30] Speaker 3: So, what we've had to do is rip out servers from Aegis Cruisers, our best combatant vessel because there are chips inside them that could phone home and say, "Send malware to me and we'll destroy this."

[05:46] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[05:46] Speaker 3: We've had to take part... We came up to, uh, finding out that our magnetic rare earth minerals in F-35s, uh, has software there could also phone home. In fact, we found that a number of their F-35, uh, that ma- uh, rare earth minerals magnets were, uh-... look like purposely made to malfunction so that they'd fail in flight. And so what we have here is a cyber, um, incarceration of our US military and it extends beyond that. But before I do, let's talk about those rare earths that I mentioned. When President Trump put 145% tariffs, on average, 145% tariffs on China, President Xi just quietly lifted up his tariffs against us to 145%. And he did one other thing, which when, so to speak, America had to take a knee, and we immediately took our rare earth tariffs down, so did President Xi.

[06:57] Speaker 3: What he didn't do is end the restriction that no more rare earth minerals could be sold e- one- even when they've been processed and refined, and they do 99.99% of all the six heavy rare earth minerals, that is the most vital rare earth mineral in our military, but those can't be sold to the US military and any country that buys them, to put them into different parts, I mean, even cockpit seats have rare earth mineral in them, cannot be given to the US military. We have, just for the F-35, we have 2,000 companies that provide (laughs) us parts for that F-35.

[07:41] Speaker 2: That's crazy.

[07:42] Speaker 3: And now, we ran out last year building Tomahawk missiles that you see in the news being fired at Iran today.

[07:49] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[07:50] Speaker 3: Because we had to go from 60 to 1,000, to try to spin up this past year to replenish our supplies because of the shooting we'd done with them, to get us back by 2033 to have enough Tomahawks. We had to stop, until our ally, who never in my going to war with them have ripped us off, they said, "Wait a moment. We've got that one sanitorium, that's what it's called, this rare earth mineral that you need, because in the '70s, we stockpiled some away. It'll do you for six to eight months, 10 months, get you going, but then we've got a problem." As we do for all our precious, precise munitions. One last thing. They have 600 hypersonic missiles that go Mach 10, that's 10 times the speed of sound. They maneuver at will, back and forth. It's a very unique weapon system and we don't have anything that can shoot it down, and won't, until sometime between 2030 and 2032, if then. We have zero hypersonic missiles.

[08:56] Speaker 3: That means they can reach, from China, or on their ships if they're further, move further, out to Hawaii. So if we've got a base in Guam, which we do with our submarines there, boom, bang. Nothing can defend it. So that's why I wanted to make the point that, much as John F. Kennedy did in his great book as a student at Harvard, Why England Slept, as Nazism arose and became over a decade of, I mean, a war machine. I initially titled my op-ed, Why America Slept.

[09:30] Speaker 2: Well, that is, is very scary. I mean, didn't any of these guys, uh, a- ever hear the story of the Trojan Horse? I can't believe that, that they're, you know, there's all these parts from all these different places and they, they seem oblivious to this. Um, and I know you say that, uh, I've heard you say this before, that conventional combat isn't the future of warfare, right? It's cyber warfare is, is gonna be way more important. Is that right? In the, in the cosmic scheme of things?

[10:07] Speaker 3: That is correct. Algorithm, algorithm and data with digits are as important, if not even more so than weapons and soldiers. The reason is, as the war gains have shown us, because they evidently have Trojan horses within our equipment, and the Defense Science Board of the Department of Defense has said, "There is no confidence we have that any major weapon system of America's military has not been compromised."

[10:34] Speaker 2: Okay.

[10:34] Speaker 3: And therefore, if they close them down, we're no better than John Paul Jones'... Let's say Navy, where he could not fire until they saw, he saw the whites of their eye coming over the horizon.

[10:45] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, sir.

[10:46] Speaker 3: Imagine that when they have something that can go about 5,000 miles. (laughs) So, uh, uh, this is the concern, um, th- that, that, that there really is here. Um, we- I knew only one person, and I had the honor of working for him, that tried to change this. See, Chief of Naval Operations Vern Clark. He made me his, what he called his Black Hat analyst, when I came back from the war, Com- Commander Carey Battle Group. And he said, "I want you to think out of the box. I don't want your opinion, I want analysis. Then give me your opinion on the analysis." We worked together and he gave me some direction, he says, "I want you to look into this. Do, does, do we need more ships or not? Because we always say we need 375, but we're really never, ever gonna make that because they're so expensive." And, uh, turned out that the analysis showed that we could do 240 to 260 ships very well, if we put the money into cyber warfare.

[11:48] Speaker 3: And if we also brought out what is out in the public today, that, you know, we can kinda track submarines and the Chinese have claimed they can with a radar up in space. And when quantum computers come out, I don't know, 20-30 to 2035, they'll be able, not only to break any password in existence today in a nanosecond, but these quantum computers, as the National Security Advise- A- Agency's general counsel has said-... has written about rather. But they're gonna be able to measure the little bit of height that that sea goes up because of a steel hull underneath it, moving through it. This future is as much about, as you said, algorithm and pro- asked me to say algorithms and digits, data, and as well as, um, soldiers and weapons. And that's why I think our government, uh, motto should change to, "In God we trust.

[12:51] Speaker 3: All others bring data."

[12:53] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well-

[12:54] Speaker 3: Thank you.

[12:54] Speaker 2: I mean, we're seeing that in politics as well, are we not? And, and, and, and also-

[12:59] Speaker 3: And that's why I really led with that, all others bring their data. Don't bring me, you know, claims and political slogans.

[13:09] Speaker 2: Well, and, and, and it's something that, um, y- you know, we're lucky to have you because you not only s- understand the military and the science, but also the political side of things. And it's something that the Defense Department may be woefully, uh, lacking in, but it's also, in my opinion, something Democratic Party is, is, is woefully lacking in, that we don't pay enough attention to these things.

[13:35] Speaker 3: I, w- well, I, I, I'd like to make a point on that, if it's all right, Senator, that I-

[13:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, please.

[13:40] Speaker 3: ... that I

[13:41] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[13:41] Speaker 3: ... I was very blessed to also work for President Clinton. And I don't believe at the national security level that there's been a national leader since him, who truly understood that every issue is a national security issue. Take, take today, if our navy cannot... Our military cannot beat China's, what if they shut off? Say, "I'm not gonna sell you the 700 chemicals that is vitally needed for 700 of the most..." Uh, the chemicals they need for the most...

[14:16] Speaker 3: And they're the only ones we buy 'em from, and make them, for 700 of the medicines we use today, from cancer-

[14:25] Speaker 2: Wow.

[14:25] Speaker 3: ... to HIV, uh, medicines. And so you... We have t- uh, uh, he understood that back then, but people don't. They divide our national, our national security as, "Well, that means military now." (laughs) As the President Clinton said, "We have..." his objectives and national security j- uh, uh, his direction to me was international security, um, strategy that I oversaw and developed with all the agencies every year, 17 agencies I think at the time, you know, CIA, labor, uh, uh, education, all of them. We understood that everything was a security issue, whether it was, you know, e- education or not. And take education, all right? Today, China, um, it has surpassed us, the new patent, spending on university and government research, high quality scientific papers, and they have the leadership in chemistry, computer science, engineering, material science, that are the four critical area, responsible for most of cutting edge research. Education is our true homeland defense.

[15:40] Speaker 2: Well, um, well, uh, thankfully, we put, uh, somebody who was in charge of, uh, the Wide World of Wrestling Federation (laughs) in charge of it.

[15:51] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[15:51] Speaker 2: Uh, I agree with you. Mrs. Brown is an educator. I'm sure she's listening and she's applauding right now because that's absolutely the tr- the truth. So are we just, are we just woefully behind the times? Is that it? Are we... Do we still think... It seemed to me that Donald Trump thinks that we... This is 1946, you know? That we are the most powerful country in the world, that we're economically the most powerful one- country in the world, militarily we're the most powerful country in the world. Is this what's going on with these guys? Do they just not understand what the landscape is?

[16:30] Speaker 3: I think the issue is that, um, it's called the Iron Triangle. President Link, uh, excuse me, Eisenhower mentioned it in his farewell address. He called it the Industrial Military Complex and said, "Beware, they're just too... They go off on their own almost." John McCain threw in Congress. I call them the Iron Triangle, the Congressional Military and, um, uh, Industrial Complex. Uh, we used to have 92 defense fir- major defense firms at the end of the Cold War. We now have five. We're an oligopoly. They get cost plus programs, uh, contracts. So that when the F-35 years ago was said to cost $1 trillion, as of last December, a year ago December, excuse me, it has now cost 2 trillion. That Ford Carrier that has been over eight months on deployment down to Vene- Mediterranean down to Venezuela, over now to Iran, first of its kind, that was a 100% over cost.

[17:49] Speaker 3: And this is why CNO Clark said, "This procurement's eating us up." And part of the reason is, why nobody really thinks about this, how to do it a different way is, uh, that ambition. You know, most institutions, wherever you are, including the military, is your people, uh, uh, ambitions are really achieved and by climbing existing trees, rather than planting new ones. It's what happened to BlackBerry.Man, I remember having a Blackberry, and then they didn't try to change. And what happened is, the, um, iPhone came out. And so I can remember after this was all over, the CNO clerk left. And now it was my time to have to go both because my daughter got brain cancer and I had already asked to resign, but also because the incoming did not agree with what we were doing. The month after I got out, they condemned, by name, the CESTAC study with the CEOs of the shipyards there, the Congress members of the shipyard that ha- we, we cover them, and retired and active naval, all good people.

[19:05] Speaker 3: Even the new CNO. But you get into an institution and you think it's that way. So we are where we are today. Um, and, uh, these are all facts and I made sure that's what I said, you know, to put them out there. But I honestly think we also are at fault. We don't tend to, you know, have like an Ike- eye- an Eisenhower, somebody kind of under- at least understand and he was very broad-minded. Someone at least has some depth of national defense and national security in them, uh, uh, uh, as they, as they run for president. And, uh, you might say that Secretary of Defense does but I can remember the day that he met with all the a- four stars generals and admirals in that room that hit the front page of papers. He put out a memo that day and one of his first point was to decrease training on cyber security. It is not about more push-ups warfare in the future. You still need some of those Delta Forces, by gosh. They're terrific.

[20:16] Speaker 3: They did great down there with Maduro-

[20:18] Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.

[20:18] Speaker 3: ... if that's what we needed to do. But I have to tell you, as a, as space comms command, four-star general said, "I'll take a kid with asthma," which aren't allowed in today because they've got the right brains to be able to think on their feet, be, and, and be innovative because that's what's needed in a warfare. Whereas space, we have watched the Chinese move four or five of their satellites and surround another satellite that in, in a p- one of theirs and destroy it.

[20:49] Speaker 3: As he said, what the Chinese have done in space is "mind-boggling."

[20:54] Speaker 2: Well, I, you know, you mention in, uh, your article, um... And by the way, I hope you, you'll tell people where they can get this article because it, it's, it's really, it's really an important read, in my opinion. But, uh, you know, you mentioned the, the old Chinese, uh, uh, proverb that, uh, you know, the best, uh, battle i- the best battle is one without fighting, you know? And, uh, that really is the Chinese... That's a longstanding Chinese atti- uh, attitude, is it not? It's a longstanding... Um, uh, I've read, um, cl- you know, uh, Zu Han War and all these other books, uh, Mao Zedong, and it seems like they had... They always are looking at the long range and we seem to always be looking at the immediate. Uh, let me ask you about the, the Iranian nuclear deal, okay?

[21:57] Speaker 3: Yep.

[21:57] Speaker 2: We had this deal that was obviously working, right? Because they canceled it eight years ago and these guys don't have a nuclear weapon. Everybody agrees that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon. So obviously, the, the, the, the nuclear deal that had been put together which was canceled by Trump in 2000 or which canceled, uh, in 2018, um, by Trump, uh, was working. So, you know, it seems that, uh, the new, uh, Iranian nuclear deal that they put together is really kind of the old nuclear deal that they canceled, right? Would- they just wanted credit for that? They wanted to look tough?

[22:43] Speaker 3: Very... Yeah. Uh, for, to make, uh, a l- uh, they wanted just a little more, but to make your excellent point, when this deal was signed, what was different and better than any of the nuclear deals that we did with the Soviet Union was that for the first time, we had 24/7 eyes inside their facilities, cameras all the time working to watch that no cheating could be done. And second, even more than that, we had ears in there that could sense heat if a machinery is starting to heat up, vibration if machinery is starting to make some noise, an acoustic to hear it. We had sensors over there and surprise inspections with an American doing it with the team. They didn't cheat. We had moved in their existential capability where they were near building a... Their, uh, nuclear had enough for a warhead. They were nearing that and we moved it out of their country to Russia, which at that time, we had good relations with. They never cheated.

[23:52] Speaker 3: President Trump came in, decided, in his words, it wasn't a good enough deal and broke it. The point is this, we dealt and he wanted more. But the point is, you deal first with what's an existential threat. In this case, most immediately for Israel, 'cause they didn't have ballistic missiles that could reach us. But we took care of that. As we did with the Soviet Union from John F. Kennedy, through Nixon, through Reagan, through George Bush, that we signed the nuclear treaties in many areas that took care of and held at bay that existential threat.So it was torn up because he wanted it much more, a different deal, he said. He did nothing though during that, put more sanctions on him. They still didn't cheat for another year until finally those sanctions again are off. Took them eight years to get back to where they had enough material almost for nuclear weapons, which proved they had...

[24:46] Speaker 3: They hadn't applied anything-

[24:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[24:47] Speaker 3: ... in their country or they would have been right back to where they had been.

[24:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[24:51] Speaker 3: So therefore-

[24:52] Speaker 2: Well, and-

[24:52] Speaker 3: ... the present, I also do wanna have though them to have, not to have ballistic missiles, not to do mischief all the way around, uh, as terror and mischief. And I don't want them to, um... I've forgotten the third one. Oh yeah, fund, uh, uh, you know, allies and friends. Their allies and friends (laughs) it's for mischief. So my point is that take care of that existential threat, then work on those other issues, much like we did for the Soviet Union who helped North Vietnam, who helped Cuba, that-

[25:21] Speaker 2: Right.

[25:22] Speaker 3: ... you know, was helping down La- Nicaragua that was causing us mischief. But you deal with the existential threat.

[25:29] Speaker 2: Well, and, and, you know, the election of Donald Trump, in my opinion, is prima facie evidence that exactly what you're saying is, is true. He won on the internet, right? If you, if you looked at his resume, imagine looking at hi- going to hire somebody and looking at his resume and looking at Hillary Clinton's resume or, you know, or even Kamala Harris, their experience and what they've done. Uh, this man was able to do the whole thing on social media. So it's, you know, if there's any doubt that that's really the, the new power in the world, um, you know, I certainly don't see it. I s- I see this is the future and AI scares the hell out of me, but let's not get, get (laughs) get down that rabbit hole right now. Let me ask you something, the Secretary of War, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of the War Department, which I can't believe they renamed it, but the Secretary of Defense or, or of War, Pete Hetzel, in, in my opinion, is totally unqualified for his job.

[26:36] Speaker 2: I- is that true, in your opinion?

[26:39] Speaker 3: I don't know everything what he's done, et cetera, but I do, I do, uh, disagree with a number of actions that he's, uh, taken. Uh, for, for example, I disagree with his strikes against Iran. Um, the deal that they were working, even the Iranians said we're close to a deal.

[26:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[26:59] Speaker 3: And, um, the fact that they did not know, their Secretary of Defense may not have thought through the issue that, wait a minute, before you begin, you better know how it will end. Now, take Iraq-

[27:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[27:16] Speaker 3: ... (laughs) they certainly-

[27:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[27:18] Speaker 3: ... didn't know how it was gonna end. In this case, they thought it'd be a one-and-done, just like those B-2s came. No, no, no, no. If they didn't say that this is gonna go on, and they knew it was gonna take a couple strikes at least, is, man, we watch these. In fact, I trained there, I've operated there. We can't operate inside the Persian Gulf if there's gonna be a conflict because the first thing they're gonna do is drop mines by fishing boats in the Straits of Hormuz. It's a very narrow area. I mean, and if you get too far out of the middle of it, it's only a couple miles to land on either side, but then it's even narrower because it's shallow water as it gets closer there. And they have mobile anti-ship cruise missiles that can hit it. Now, maybe we destroyed them all, but I doubt that because they hide them. And they're mobile. They're not fixed.

[28:09] Speaker 3: And so therefore, if they all of a sudden pop one up, you can't pick it up with any assurance when it's coming from land that's only a mile or two from you and expect to get a missile on it, particularly an Aegis ship that the missile goes up, way up vertically, doesn't aim right at it, and then comes down. Number two, you drop that mine in there, even as a couple, and you have a carrier or you have ships inside there, there's only about two major places because of this thin, the, the sh- uh, how shallow the water is in the Persian Gulf that we operate our aircraft carriers. When they operate for 12 hours on end, before the crew needs rest, they go back alo- they go, they launch and they go in a reciprocal course to land. Launch, land, launch, land, launch, land, launch, land. And they have 30 midget submarines.

[28:59] Speaker 2: Wow.

[29:00] Speaker 3: We can't detect. They're so tiny. But there's clearly even more than that. Our sonars reverberate in those shallow waters. It doesn't work. They don't work. There's so many 50-gallon drums, steel drums down there. I know, I've operated.

[29:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[29:16] Speaker 3: Now, we get those stuff out of there. So first of all, you're, you're out and it is far distance. Okay, we can handle that. But then people have to understand, much like we talked about that warfare is now about data and algorithms as it is about, uh, weapons and soldiers. Well, it's also about finances. And those, uh, Revolutionary Guards, from their viewpoint, is doing what strategically is most damaging to us and the world, of which our allies didn't, many of them didn't even give us airbases, including the Saudis and everyone like that, to use, including space to wa- go through, by the way. And so we're kind of on the limb of flying from farther away places. But you start hitting the oil or you close it down by putting mines in that and, or telling you or just saying you've done, so we've destroyed their mine laying cape ships, but that's not the real issue. We watched their fishing boats practice.

[30:26] Speaker 3: Much like fishing boats can be turned into drug runners, they can be turned into-

[30:29] Speaker 2: Right.

[30:29] Speaker 3: ... dropping a few f- min- mines.Nobody's gonna give an insurance to any oiler to go through there. And, and then once one gets hit, it blocks everything. So they... And now prices of oil is going up. Uh, and oh, by the way, Iran, uh, Russia, its oil is much more expensive and they're making a lot more profit that might get back... Their economy's about to break and might get them back on their feet against Ukraine. And by the way, they're giving intelligence to Iran and that has been reported.

[31:00] Speaker 2: I know. I've heard that. That's incredible.

[31:03] Speaker 3: Soldiers. Yes, sir. It is incredible. So we also had to go to Ukraine and ask President Zelensky 'cause our... For his air defense systems that they developed against swarms of drones that Russia was taught how to build by Iran. And we... Those... Our soldiers that have been killed, uh, by and large have been by those drones that we have a hard time shooting down because our weapon systems are made for sophisticated incoming missiles, not these swarms of cheap little drones. And so President Zelensky quickly lent them to us... Sent them to us along with advisors of how to do it plus the unique technology you need to be forward to listen for them because they're hard to detect when they're low and slow, much like I mentioned, an anti-ship cruise missile coming off of land low and fast. So this is a pretty big dilemma. And again, I don't think the victory of war obviously, and the dilemma we've gotten in, has done it. It's not about just, you know, might.

[32:14] Speaker 3: You know, the wisest strategists are those that think through h-... What is the adversary likely do in response to what I can do? And I don't think they were prepared, a- at all prepared for that.

[32:28] Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you g-... I know that you know a lot more about this than, than I do, but it seems to me... I've seen an aircraft carrier and when I saw it, it, uh, it stunned me. It stunned me how big it was. I, I couldn't believe... I saw it in Baltimore Harbor and I was probably a couple hundred yards away from it and I couldn't believe that you could make something that big float. But l- l- l- let me ask you, isn't it also an easy target? I mean, I know it comes with a battle group to defend it, but, uh, those drones you're talking about, m- it seemed to me that it'd be hard to miss an aircraft carrier. It's awful big.

[33:11] Speaker 3: We... The Aegis ships, and that's the weapons system on it, the radar and missiles, uh, that were there, are extraordinarily good. Again, most missiles that are capable of reaching out, far out to where a carrier is, and we're probably keeping at least 100 to 200 miles away, 150 miles away. So the Iranians can't touch it. And even with... And if there's hundreds and hundreds coming in, some will, something will leak through. Yeah. But now with hypersonic missiles that China has and we can't shoot it down, yes, they are a sitting duck vis-a-vis China, which makes us second tier because they can take all our ships out. I mean, by the time... We only have about a dozen or so forward. By the time they come steaming at 30 knots to try to get to a war to salvage Taiwan because Taiwan has a lot of critical material we like, plus once they control Taiwan, China will control the South China Sea where we can't survive then. And that's where there's a heck of a lot of minerals underneath.

[34:25] Speaker 3: That's why they want to claim it. Also, 30% of the world's economy flows when ships through there. Wow. And so, yeah, vis-a-vis China? No.

[34:36] Speaker 2: Well, uh-

[34:37] Speaker 3: But that's why we can't put the carrier close to anyone or a slow, slow drone could hi- get a carrier today, much like it slipped through elsewhere. And we keep it far distance from third tier countries.

[34:51] Speaker 2: W- well, let me ask you since you mentioned Taiwan. Uh, again, I'm not a military strategist, but I would think when the front page of the New York Times is saying that we've depleted our weapons supply and we're engaged in Venezuela, uh, Ukraine, Gaza and Iran, it might be the right time to take action against Taiwan in their opinion, don't you... I mean, can... Could... Politically, could Trump afford to get involved with Taiwan? I don't think he could, even though we- we're- w- w- we, you know, we're s- we're supposed to be their ally and defend them. Uh, a- and, and also, wouldn't it... You know, if it were up to me, if I had to i- invade a country, um, m- maybe I wanna do it when their biggest ally is, uh, engaged in so much else and running out of ammunition.

[35:49] Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that's-

[35:50] Speaker 3: Because then CIA head, Mr. William Burns, said a couple years ago that President Xi has directed the Chinese lead military leadership to be ready to take Taiwan by 2027. This is what-

[36:12] Speaker 2: I saw that in an article. Yeah. I'm sorry, go ahead.

[36:14] Speaker 3: And so that's concern. Uh, and munitions, as I told you, um, every war game e-... We run out of critical munitions in the first couple days, if we can even get to the fight now with these hypersonic missiles.And these, that shoot down, the SM-6 and all, we're critically short of them because as you know over the past two years with the Houthis, et cetera, shooting these, you know, cheap little weapons at us, even some ballistics, you know, a few other stu- stuff. We've used those SM missiles, air, uh, surface-to-air missiles up a lot. Our defense systems for our bases, the Patriot, the THAAD, uh, particularly Patriot, are very low on munitions. Now this is a critical moment and China has placed an embargo on what is needed for these weapon systems, almost every one. We have 1,900 American weapon systems, and by weapon system, the Aegis-class cruiser is one weapon system, and there might be 20 of them let's say.

[37:32] Speaker 3: We have 1,900 different w- weapons systems that rely upon China for rare earth minerals, including the six most critical ones you can't get anywhere else, and that are needed for like the tail of the Tomahawk because these can take intense heat as that Tomahawk is maneuvering back and forth, swiftly back and forth. And that's why samarium is the only rare earth mineral that is refined and processed by one country, China. We have, we have got to disconnect ourselves from the factory floor of China. And too many, I think, have slept at this. Um, this is, I, I, I write, I wrote about, an article in 2021, uh, 2020, excuse me, about why the Navy have lost command of the seas. Uh, Admiral McRaven, the noted SEAL who got Bin Sa- Bin Laden, set up the Tennessee, uh, strategic review, Tennessee University review and published it, and, uh, went through some of this. But it's gone beyond that now. Take the Port of Los Angeles.

[38:51] Speaker 3: The cranes we bought, purchased for our West Coast ports, like Los Angeles, were made in China, and there's software in them that can be controlled by China. Luckily, Biden put in money to get them out in this case. However, they control 129 ports around the world, that they own, like, or they partial owner or majority owner, that they've constructed, that's a heavy investment in. During peacetime, it, they prioritize because of their ownership and everything, the flow in and out of port, so they're economically more efficient. That's how they take advantage of it in peacetime. In wartime, all that equipment that they built and put in there, by crane, can be shut down from China. It's what they did when the Myanmar junta said, "Hey, China, the rebels have conquered the first city here last year, Lashio. Can you get them out for us?" China says, "Not a problem," because it had built the internet there and it built the electrical system.

[39:59] Speaker 3: So sitting in China, they turned off the switch, and then within two days, 'cause they couldn't charge their iPhones- (laughs)

[40:06] Speaker 5: Yep. No-

[40:06] Speaker 3: ... they couldn't, you know, get any GPS signals or whatever. They had to move out. It's a whole new warfare game. Those 130, 29 ports are a form of sea control, but if they close them now and they hold them, well, then they have as good sea control as big as US Navy claimed it had since the Cold War. By the way, let me just stop here and say, this has nothing to do with our sailors, our soldiers, the Marines. They're outstanding. And the reason we do know that, I know that, is, well, I operated with them. Everybody thinks this is not them. My gosh, when General Nakamura came over from the Soviet Union, he was taken by Admiral Crow, who was Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, and he was a good old boy with a Princeton PhD, and he took him to an all-you-can-still-eat barbecue. He took him to a mall. He took him to Army, Marine Corps bases.

[41:05] Speaker 3: He took him to an aircraft carrier, and when he flew off, he said to the, General Nakamura, Head of the Soviet Union, "What most impressed you?" He said, "Your enlisted." We don't have them, and you could see that. When an army one-third the size of Russia's, Ukraine stopped them with almost no help initially. They just throw their conscripts in into battle. Everybody thinks it's Tom Cruise-

[41:30] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[41:31] Speaker 3: ... on the carrier taking off. The average age of our youth, of our sailors is 19 and a half, of those 5,000 sailors.

[41:38] Speaker 5: Wow.

[41:38] Speaker 3: But here's the key. Here's the key. When Tom Cruise came back for the F-18, having flown the F-14, we didn't kick those kids out, those youth out, 'cause we decommissioned the F-14 like we do when the coal mine closes, or the fac- tractors on farms are now autonomous. We trained them and retrained them on the new one. We have a community college in the Navy. The Air Force's is the largest community college in the world, where they gain certificates so when they get out, they've got a degree. But yet our nation, this is not, as I said, every issue is now a security issue. Our nation has, puts less into training and retraining of the enlisted of our pe- of our, of our, our nation, those who don't have a college degree, let's say blue-collar workers, than any of the 38 richest countries in the world. Those are the members of the OECD club. Germany has half its youths between 18 and 22 in an apprenticeship program.You go around this world, they know what to do.

[42:47] Speaker 3: And I know there's a burden with college loans, but let me tell you, if I was out there in the world and I just lost my tractor job, I'd say, "What about me?" And we have to respect that. It's- I don't look at them as MAGA. What I look at them is, Mr. Trump failed to take care of their needs. President Trump, excuse me. And to me, my mind is, you gotta remember that almost 45% of our recruits have come and have always been coming, from 14 heavily rural nations. Uh, co- uh, I'm sorry, states.

[43:22] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[43:22] Speaker 3: And yet they're the ones who give us our energy, they're the ones who've given us agriculture for 150 years. And yet, we don't understand that if you're gonna take care of part of the crew, take care of the other part of the crew with training and retraining. And that's something that I believe we have missed out on big time.

[43:40] Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, I, I, I have a- my brother was a, um, an F-111 pilot but he was also Vice President of Community College of the Air Force before he retired and became president of the college. So, uh, yeah. He would, he would say the same thing. He would say, you know, he had a doctorate in education, he would say, "Yeah, it's all about education." And, and, uh, he was very proud, m- most proud of his service, uh, in the military that he was of, of anything. How much, how many, uh, m- m- uh, Air Force people they had trained through community college of the Air Force.

[44:22] Speaker 2: But-

[44:23] Speaker 3: I- I'm glad to hear that.

[44:25] Speaker 2: I'm sorry?

[44:26] Speaker 3: I'm glad you said that. I went, when I was in Congress, I joined the Community College Caucus 'cause they're the best job placement agency in America.

[44:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. L- you, you'll love this. He went to a- I just got a- so this little story in there, he went to a, a meeting at the Naval Academy, and he needed to get to the airport so he called, uh, you know, he called the base transportation people, I guess, and said, "How do you get to the airport?" And they said, "Well, what's your rank?" And he said, "Captain." And they said, "Oh, we'll send a car for you." And the car came over and the guy got out of the car and he go and he saw that my brother was in the Air Force and not in the Navy and he said, "You're not a real captain." And he got back in the car and left. Uh, uh, anyway, I always f- I always found that funny. But l- let me ask you, um, it seems that we're making a big mistake here in the Middle East. So, was, uh, our president played by, uh, Netanyahu?

[45:29] Speaker 2: I mean, it seems to me that these, that the Israelis have, have want, you know, realized that they're, they're in a fight with their neighbors and, uh, why not have big brother help them? You know, I mean, why, you know, you, you, you think that, you know, it, it, it's funny that the president said that he thought maybe he pushed Netan- Netanyahu into action. It really appears that it was the other way around, don't you think?

[46:04] Speaker 3: Um, President, uh, Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu opposed the nuclear accord that had removed the nuclear, uh, enrichment, you know, the uranium, uh, the, the enriched uranium out and had taken care of that existential threat. And I don't know if it was him or not, but Trump broke that. But he's always been opposed to that. And he was definitely the one that wanted to take out those, uh, w- that first strike against Iran by President Trump, uh, to try to stop it when we used B-2s. And we didn't destroy it all. They snuck a lot out early, and the facilities are probably working, uh, they're just buried below. And that was concerning. So do I think that he had a continuing concern? Uh, he was very much, very enthusiastic about this and reports are, as Ru- Mr. Rubio said, that they were gonna go, and so we went with them. Or words to that effect.

[47:04] Speaker 3: Uh, look-

[47:04] Speaker 2: Wow.

[47:04] Speaker 3: ... I have thought since the Biden administration, I'm sorry. Uh, I just wanna say, I, I think... Go ahead. You were gonna say something, Senator?

[47:14] Speaker 2: No, I was just gonna say that that was my strategy. I went to a tough high school and I always made friends with the two biggest guys that I could find, you know. And, (laughs) and, and r- it's true, my, one of my best friends in, in, in high school was 6'6" and I never started a fight without him standing next to me.

[47:33] Speaker 3: (laughs) .

[47:34] Speaker 2: Um, so, you know, that, that's why I mention that. It just seemed, y- you know, like, like, n- Netanyahu would be standing up applauding saying, "Yeah, come on USA. USA." Uh, he did nominate our president for a Nobel Peace Prize, which at first I thought was a joke. But, but anyway. I'm sorry, I digress. Go ahead, Admiral.

[47:55] Speaker 3: No, I guess I'm, I'm gonna bring what th- this issue I, I've been concerned about is that it's always for me, first and foremost, about America's national security, which is inextricably linked with allies and friends from NATO, South Korea, Japan, Israel, et cetera. And I would do anything for Israel, uh, and I did. Uh, I tied my Aegis cruiser up to defend them, uh, just before the Gulf War happened, to protect them, went ashore, made sure everything was great. And, uh, bought my wife's diamond ring there, diamond, diamond there, excuse me. I, um, I met the, uh, ambassador from Israel, asked him, asked if I'd come over when I was in Congress, night of Hanukkah, first night of Hanukkah with my wife, and have, and celebrate, be there with them. And, uh, they happened to have their chief of staff of the Navy, which is similar to our Chief of Naval Operations there, who asked if I could get access to the Israeli Navy for-What was then RLCS had been developed then, and I gladly did this.

[48:52] Speaker 3: I knew the new CNO, the second, um, had, and happened. And then they sent over the general in charge of the ballistic missile defense and the renowned Arrow, which wasn't developed or hardly on, just a, uh, a something on the drawing board, was being replaced, the, in the authorization bill defense by the Aegis SM, S6 missile to be. And they didn't want that. They wanted their Arrow. And I said, "I can put a study in that can kind of delay it so you work higher levels and get it done." I would do that. Name only. I love Israel. But when President Biden said Israel is over the top and then did nothing with regard to Gaza, I think that he hurt our national security. I was on the ground in Afghanistan, you know, the war. Sent over there about a month or two in, two months at least in, meeting up with SEALs and others, and came back and reported directly to Mr. Rumsfeld.

[49:50] Speaker 3: We were shooting white Toyota trucks because we had intelligence the Taliban had purchased like a hundred or so of them, whatever it was. So we just shot them. We didn't check to see if a farmer was there who had bought one on his own and his wife was dri- someone was driving it else. As a farmer. Reported back, Mr. Rumsfeld changed that, and then the Civilian Protection Center of Excellence was established in the years to come to make sure we've trained and retrained how you do non-discriminatory. If they're not shooting at you, you have time to figure out if they're good or bad. And the Secretary of War did away with that when he came in. Maybe that's what happened when we shot that, can't say for sure, at a school that was near a base, but nevertheless, how sure were we? Particularly, you know, and in that war, I think that the indiscriminate killings that ensued, and I understand why they did, much like we did after 9/11, the horror of that attack against them.

[50:56] Speaker 3: But I believe there's a way you conduct war, and I think that the president, and I needed to say this because to, to, to be honest, that even then when he did nothing, uh, I don't know why he did it, but there was ways to protect it. I mean, we weren't even allowed to get food in to help them, and we had to build a bridge by the Navy, and it collapsed after two months and, and a sailor got killed. I, and yet it didn't work. As much food went into Gaza as, um, Kitchen Chef, the chef of, um, you know, The Kitchen, the famous one, as they got in their 10 years.

[51:39] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Jo- Jose Andres, yeah.

[51:41] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. And so my take is, we were like a Gilli- uh, you know, being tied down, Gulliver's Travels. I, I just think that it's very important that we understand that the, we are heading a, we did head, and it's being dismantled, the head of a world order that was based on universal values. How do you condemn China and its persecution of the Uyghur Muslim citizens if we aren't being fair in what's done? War, yes. But do what, you have time. It's not like our F-18s were flying over Afghanistan and they were shooting anti-aircraft missiles at them. You have time to figure out, is it. But if we don't have time, I understand. But, uh, and I just think we've let ourselves and our nation and America down by, by not doing, uh, forcing indiscriminate shoot- uh, attacks.

[52:33] Speaker 2: Well, that's the perfect place to end, um, Admiral. Um, thank you so much, Admiral Sestak, for always being available, uh, to get to be on our show and get the truth out there, because there's so much stuff going out there and it's changing day to day. And we really need to hear from people that know rather than people that have an agenda. So I so appreciate you coming on. And, you know, we always play out with a song. So tonight, we're gonna play out with one of my favorite songs dedicated to you for all your service, because as a politician and as a military person, Admiral Sestak, I know that you understood, uh, what the, the meaning of this song. You brought it up in, in, in our, our first broadcast, and I'm afraid that not enough people do understand that and not enough politicians when they get into power.

[53:28] Speaker 2: But here's P!nk with What About Us, and, uh, Admiral Sestak-

[53:32] Speaker 3: Oh, my favorite song. Oh, I love it.

[53:35] Speaker 2: My favorite, too. I do-

[53:35] Speaker 3: I love it. It's got-

[53:36] Speaker 2: Mine, mine, too, because-

[53:37] Speaker 3: It's got-

[53:38] Speaker 2: ... that really s-

[53:38] Speaker 3: I'm pensively from Bucks County Pennsylvania.

[53:41] Speaker 2: Oh, is that right? Well, well, this should be the mantra of every politician, right? What about us?

[53:46] Speaker 3: Absolutely. That's-

[53:48] Speaker 2: So-

[53:48] Speaker 3: That's what they're saying in the rural. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me aboard.

[53:53] Speaker 2: No, thank you, uh, sir. And, and God bless you for your service to America. Um, I, I'm honored that, that, that you've come on our show and we wish you all the best and hope to talk to you again soon. And next week, folks, Liberty Jones will be back and, and, and, uh, hopefully we'll have another guest. Thanks so much, Admiral. See you next week, folks.

[54:18] Speaker 5: representation. In the capital of this nation. Two hundred years of exploitation. Give the people their right to vote. Give the people their right to vote. Give the people their right to vote. Give the people their right to vote.