[00:00] Speaker 1: Good afternoon, Melbourne. Good afternoon, Australia, and good day and evening to all our international listeners, too. I'm Helen Taylor. Welcome to my show, Inspired Radio. I'm here with you every Monday, 4:00 PM, Melbourne, Australia time, and Sunday, 11:00 PM, Central Time for US and Canada. And I'm having conversations and stories here to inspire you. This is the BBS Radio TV platform, and we're going live to more than 190 outlets worldwide. Inspired Radio is all about change and getting uncomfortable and shaking up the status quo, helping us to break free from limiting systems and embracing our infinite potential. My guests are here to tell their story, to reveal how they've overcome change and made better lives for themselves, and of course, for others, and to inspire you with their stories, because storytelling is creating a new world. So today, I'm talking with Mike Palmer. He's front man for Know Your Rights.

[01:04] Speaker 1: He's a longtime activist and educator who's been helping Australians learn about, um, how to stand up for the... or sorry, learn about and stand up for their legal rights. Once upon a time, Mike sat around a table somewhere in Burwood, Victoria, having conversations with others about our legal system and trying to figure out where it was all going wrong. He became a success and life coach and started up groups like Aussie Speeding Fines and Know Your Rights so he could teach people about their freedoms, how the systems work, and how to challenge injustices. He's also known for his weekly radio broadcasts, live events, and resources aimed at empowering listeners with practical strategies to understand and exercise their rights. So let's dive into Mike's journey, his mission, and what he is up to. Welcome, Mike. Welcome to the show.

[01:58] Speaker 2: Oh, thanks very much, Helen, much appreciated.

[02:00] Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you like your intro?

[02:02] Speaker 2: Oh, beautiful. Couldn't- couldn't have said it better myself. (laughs)

[02:04] Speaker 1: And did you like that bit about sitting around a table somewhere in Burwood?

[02:08] Speaker 2: Burwood, yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a long, long time ago that was. (laughs)

[02:11] Speaker 1: Was that like 30 years ago or something?

[02:14] Speaker 2: Oh, not quite. It's probably 15, I'd say.

[02:17] Speaker 1: Oh, really?

[02:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, it was... Yeah, maybe 20. Yeah, maybe 20.

[02:21] Speaker 1: All right.

[02:21] Speaker 2: Um, but, yeah, it-

[02:22] Speaker 1: Sorry for tacking on years on there for you. (laughs)

[02:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. No, no, I'm old enough, don't need to add any on. (laughs)

[02:27] Speaker 1: (laughs) . So, so tell me about that man. Tell me about Mike 20 years ago.

[02:34] Speaker 2: Well, um, so we... I was just, just finished the contract with the Victoria Police. So I ran a, uh, a company that did all the transcript work for Victoria Police. So we typed up all the suspect interview tapes.

[02:48] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[02:49] Speaker 2: And we'd done that for 13 years and never missed a beat, never got anything wrong, always, you know, did things on budget, on time, unlike all the... pretty much all the Victorian contractors nowadays. And, uh, all of a sudden, uh, they said, "No, we're not renewing your contract." And they did a, you know, an under-the-table deal with a bankrupt Queensland company to provide these transcripts so they could sew everything all up with the one company all the way through the court system. And I thought, "Hmm. Okay, that, that doesn't sound quite right. Why would they do that?" And then we sort of started looking into things and then found, you know, more and more and more didn't sort of, you know, add up.

[03:25] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[03:26] Speaker 2: And, uh, you know, just started questioning, just started, you know, researching, and just uncovered a whole lot of things and just went, "Wow, okay." Uh, met some really interesting people, uh, along the way. You know, some of the founders that, uh, that originally helped create Aussie Speeding Fines, the guys back at, you know, CLRG, that then became CLRA down in Burwood. Um, and yeah, just a bunch of different people that had all these little bits of information.

[03:52] Speaker 1: (coughs) Sorry. For everybody that's listening, you can... The, the abbreviations, what did they stand for?

[03:58] Speaker 2: Oh, ASF was, uh, Aussie Speeding Fines. Sorry. (laughs)

[04:00] Speaker 1: Yes.

[04:00] Speaker 2: Um, and CLRG was... I think it was the Common Law Resource Group that then became the Common Law Resource Association.

[04:07] Speaker 1: Okay, so, so you personally, um, smelled a rat with something that was happening with your business and your connection with the Victorian Police. Yeah?

[04:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

[04:17] Speaker 1: And, and that then led you to starting to, um, research and investigate what was going on. Yeah?

[04:23] Speaker 2: Yep, yep. Absolutely.

[04:24] Speaker 1: And from that, these groups started to form. Is that how it happened?

[04:27] Speaker 2: Well, th- I think some of the smaller groups were already there, and I just sort of got onto them through research and connected with some people. But they were all very, very small, very sort of splintered groups, you know?

[04:38] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[04:38] Speaker 2: 20 people here, 50 people there, 40 people there. And I went, "All right, look, these guys have so much incredible information. Uh, you know, we need to find a way to, to, to bring that all together." So I started with some of the original founders of, uh, of Aussie Speeding Fines and just said, "Look, you know, you guys need to put this together in a cohesive way." And, you know, they were older guys and, you know, weren't very sort of tech-savvy. So I helped them create, you know, the website, and we, you know, put together the book, and, uh, and, uh, all those sorts of things. And, you know, that went out, and, you know, I stupidly put my hand up to do some, uh, TV interviews with them and, uh, you know, the good old media.

[05:17] Speaker 1: Well, I think, I think you've always been kind of pulled into being the front man, haven't you?

[05:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a little bit. (...)

[05:23] Speaker 1: 'Cause you're pretty good at it. I mean, I have to say, you're, you're, you know, it's, it's a... You kind of come across really natural, right? And-

[05:30] Speaker 2: Thanks.

[05:30] Speaker 1: And people can connect with you in the... in your language, in your presentation.

[05:34] Speaker 2: Thanks.

[05:35] Speaker 1: So what were, what were these other groups finding out?

[05:39] Speaker 2: Uh, well, so, I mean, some of the guys, uh, who, who started Aussie Speeding Fines looked into, uh, you know, things like the, the testing of the, the devices, found out that they ha- you know, they weren't being properly tested, they didn't meet-

[05:52] Speaker 1: This is the, the speed guns and the-

[05:54] Speaker 2: This is, yeah, speed cameras-

[05:56] Speaker 1: Right.

[05:56] Speaker 2: ... uh, mobile cameras, you know, laser and radar devices.

[06:00] Speaker 1: Yep.

[06:00] Speaker 2: Um, yeah, that, that they weren't properly, uh, tested, they weren't properly calibrated, uh, none of them had been certified under Section 10 of the National Measurement Act. Uh, then they started looking even further into the actual, you know, so-called laws themselves, and you, you know, you take something like the, you know, the Road Rules Victoria publication, which is, you know, all about speed limits and all those sort of things, and it says, you know, "The contents of this document are to be adopted as law in Victoria." And you go, "Well, hang on a minute, wh- why would you say 'adopted as law'?" That clearly means that they're not law.

[06:31] Speaker 2: Otherwise it would just say, "This is the law in Victoria." And-

[06:34] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[06:34] Speaker 2: ... and you started to look at some of the, the nuances and the actual wording of things, going, "Well, hang on a minute, this, this-"

[06:39] Speaker 1: Yep.

[06:39] Speaker 2: "... doesn't sort of add up."

[06:41] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[06:41] Speaker 2: And so yes, it was just, just fascinating what they'd uncovered, um, and then, you know, I, I met, uh, Daryl through, uh, CLRG, uh, Daryl O'Bryan, uh, and he'd done a lot of research into the Commonwealth constitution and what, you know, was allowed and wasn't allowed, you know, under that, that being, you know, the h- the highest, you know, law in this land anyway. Um, and so yes, it just-

[07:06] Speaker 1: Can I- can I- can I make a point there?

[07:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[07:07] Speaker 1: I want to make a point there for people out there, right? You know, our thinking, our thoughts create reality, our energy creates-

[07:15] Speaker 2: Yes.

[07:15] Speaker 1: ... reality, uh, whether people understand how that happens or not. So as soon as you start questioning things, you connect with these smaller groups that have all been kind of invisible, all been investigating and doing things, but your energy connects with their energy.

[07:30] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[07:30] Speaker 1: They need a way to take that energy out and ha- expose it and get i- it out to the people, and you become that catalyst. And then as you do that, you connect with Daryl O'Bryan, who's a guy who's doing it in another arena.

[07:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[07:44] Speaker 1: I want people to realize, as soon as you start wanting change and wanting to understand things-

[07:50] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[07:50] Speaker 1: ... you start naturally connecting with people, don't you?

[07:54] Speaker 2: A- absolutely. I mean, even the Bible tells us, you know, what you seek, you know, you will find.

[07:58] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[07:58] Speaker 2: So, you know, what you focus on is what you, you know, you draw yourself to, and, you know-

[08:02] Speaker 1: Correct.

[08:02] Speaker 2: ... can draw to you as well. So yeah, absolutely.

[08:05] Speaker 1: I want people to know that you're not the only one around with that power, right? It's-

[08:08] Speaker 2: No, yeah, no, no, ev- everyone, absolutely. Yeah (laughs) .

[08:11] Speaker 1: It's b- I'm just, I'm just making a joke out of it now, but, like, you know-

[08:14] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[08:14] Speaker 1: ... I want people to realize that what you were doing, they can do in their own lives as well.

[08:19] Speaker 2: A- absolutely, you know, yep.

[08:20] Speaker 1: Okay, you, you connect with Daryl O'Bryan, and then what happens?

[08:24] Speaker 2: Um, so I said to him, I said, "Listen, you know, the, the information and everything that you've got, you know, and the research that you've done is, you know, is, is mind-blowing," um, I, I said, "but, you know, you, you can't be sitting here presenting it to sort of 40, 50 people. You know-"

[08:37] Speaker 1: Right.

[08:37] Speaker 2: "... we need to get this out to the masses."

[08:39] Speaker 1: Yep.

[08:39] Speaker 2: So, um, uh, I, I started the Know Your Rights group, uh, as a, you know, with the vision of it being sort of like a- a- an umbrella group, uh, that all these other little groups could, you know, come underneath and feed into and, and all that sort of stuff. And so we sort of connected with a few other groups along the way, and, uh, again, some of the problem is, you know, one of the biggest challenges in this space is ego. Everybody's sort of got a bit of a, you know... Th- they genuinely want to help people, which is fantastic, but they've got a- an ego that it can only be done their way, um, and that, and sort of that's it.

[09:12] Speaker 2: And so a lot of the smaller groups said, "No, no, no, we just wanna do our own thing," and, and s- I said, "All right, that's fair enough," and, and c-

[09:18] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[09:18] Speaker 2: ... CLRG was one of those groups, and I said to Daryl, "Well, look, you know, do you want to stay with them or do you want to come with me?" And, and, you know, I, you know, I showed him what we'd done with, uh, Aussie Speeding Fines and those guys. He said, "No, no, no, let's get this out there to the masses." So yeah, so we started the Know Your Rights group, uh, then we started doing our, uh, our weekly radio shows, and so they s- they started becoming popular. Then we wrote another book, and then we created a whole website. Then we started doing, uh, live, you know, in-person events. And so we were, you know, presenting to, you know, 100, 150, you know, nearly up to 200 people, uh, at some point, you know, uh, in all the major cities around, uh, around Australia.

[09:55] Speaker 1: Yep.

[09:55] Speaker 2: And, uh, so that w- you know, we're getting the... You, I mean, you're standing there presenting for, you know, a day, an hour, whatever it is, but it's just leverage. You- your getting across to, to more people at the same-

[10:06] Speaker 1: Traction. Getting some traction (laughs) .

[10:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, so then of course, um, you know, social media became a thing, you know, with Facebook and Instagram and, and things like that. So I think a- at last look there was something somewhere around, you know, 140,000, 145,000 followers on Facebook, and then we've got followers on Instagram, and now we've got a YouTube channel. And so we've just opened up, uh, you know, our information to as many people as possible in as many different ways and formats, 'cause some people like listening to the radio shows, some people like watching, you know, we do a live video every Thursday night on, on Facebook.

[10:41] Speaker 1: Mm.

[10:41] Speaker 2: Um, some people like watching YouTube videos. Um, so we, you know... And, and one of the new things that we started last year which was really, really popular was actually webinars. So we now do... We, we break topics down into a full day-

[10:53] Speaker 1: Mm.

[10:53] Speaker 2: ... and we just do them online, just, just like this, and it's just so much more convenient. People don't have to take a whole weekend off to come and attend our live events. You know, we don't have to pay for all the costs of traveling and everything. So it's a win-win. And, and they were really good, so we're doing those again, uh, this year, which has, uh, again been, uh, been really popular. So yeah, it's just about finding new ways to get the information out there to people who, who, who want to learn about their rights.

[11:16] Speaker 1: Yeah. I hear you, because everybody learns differently, don't they?

[11:19] Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.

[11:20] Speaker 1: Yeah. And you've got... You've, you've go- given them all sorts of different ways-

[11:23] Speaker 2: Mm.

[11:24] Speaker 1: ... to do that.

[11:24] Speaker 2: Yep.

[11:25] Speaker 1: Um, and I hear what you're saying about ego. Uh, I call it old thinking as well, because we've been programmed, haven't we? In a lot-

[11:33] Speaker 2: Oh-

[11:33] Speaker 1: ... of ways. We've been programmed how to think about our banking, how to think about our political system-

[11:38] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[11:38] Speaker 1: ... our judicial system, and what you're doing is breaking free from those limitations, really.

[11:46] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[11:47] Speaker 1: Um, and ego, ego unfortunately comes right to the front and center, trying to defend itself, going, "Hang on a minute, I'm right."

[11:54] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[11:54] Speaker 1: "I know what I'm thinking here." Right?

[11:57] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[11:57] Speaker 1: And, you know, if you're going to be the catalyst for change-

[12:02] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[12:03] Speaker 1: ... then you have to align yourself with people that, I suppose, in your core group, uh, have all the same sort of values-

[12:10] Speaker 2: Mm.

[12:11] Speaker 1: ... and vision. Yeah?

[12:12] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[12:13] Speaker 1: And y- when... You're not here to do personal development for people.Right?

[12:18] Speaker 2: Uh, that's another thing that I do, but yeah, not-

[12:20] Speaker 1: Yes.

[12:20] Speaker 2: ... not in this realm, yeah, yeah.

[12:21] Speaker 1: Yes. Because what you're talking about is that, you know, people's stuff comes up, and they need to address that-

[12:27] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[12:28] Speaker 1: ... but you can't do everything for everyone.

[12:30] Speaker 2: Ye- correct.

[12:31] Speaker 1: Yeah. And what I also hear is, the foundation that you're building, 'cause I've, you know, I've talked to a lot of different people running different groups, I've personally been and investigated them all. I was doing what you were doing, with research and stuff, figuring out how people were trying to change, um, the world-

[12:49] Speaker 2: Mm.

[12:50] Speaker 1: ... for the better. Um, but foundation is something that was lacking-

[12:56] Speaker 2: Mm.

[12:56] Speaker 1: ... with a lot of different groups. Um, and as soon as they got to one or two years in, the wobbling started to happen 'cause they didn't have good foundation.

[13:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[13:07] Speaker 1: Yeah?

[13:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[13:07] Speaker 1: Is that an issue?

[13:08] Speaker 2: And that's so important. Absolutely. Um, you know, obviously we got, uh, uh, a little bit more recently, uh, we brought, uh, Darren Dixon on board, uh, from Constitution Watch, uh, and just the, the, the three of us, myself, Darren, and Daryl, um, you know, all, you know, similar thinking, very different ways that we've, you know, different topics and things that we've researched.

[13:31] Speaker 1: Yes.

[13:31] Speaker 2: Um, different ways that we present.

[13:34] Speaker 1: Yep.

[13:34] Speaker 2: But we're all on the same, the same path, and that's really what, uh, what works because, you know, Daryl's a little bit more, you know, slower, softer, more methodical. I'm a bit more, sort of, you know, high energy out there. Darren's, yeah, sort of a little bit more, more balanced in the middle.

[13:50] Speaker 1: Yep.

[13:50] Speaker 2: And, you know, it, it, different people, as you said before, learn in different ways. Some people prefer my style, some people prefer Darren's style, some people prefer Daryl's style. So, it's good that we're, we're all on the same path. We're all presenting, you know, essentially the same information just with our personal takes, but in our different styles, so it appeals, again, to that wider range of people. And, I mean, Aussie Spading Fines is now in their 19th, 18th or 19th year.

[14:15] Speaker 1: Wow.

[14:16] Speaker 2: Uh, the Know Your Rights group's been going, uh, over 11 years now. I think we're coming up to our, our twelfth year in, in April.

[14:23] Speaker 1: Yep.

[14:23] Speaker 2: Um, so I mean, that, that's a long time in this-

[14:26] Speaker 1: That says a lot. That says a lot.

[14:28] Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, you know, you, you'd know, you know very well, there's people who, you know, burst onto the scene very quickly and, as you say, you know, two or three l- years later, they, you know, they, they disappear and you don't hear about them again. Or someone new'll pop up and, you know, they'll be the flavor of the month for a little while. But we've just, just kept plodding along, bit by bit, bit by bit, you know, year by year, in the background, just plugging away, doing our thing in our way.

[14:49] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[14:49] Speaker 2: And, you know, over time, it, it, it becomes, I guess, a little bit of a, a brand that people know, "Oh, you know, if I want to know my rights, you know, I've got a legal thing, th- you know, the Know Your Rights group." That's the place to go, you know?

[15:01] Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, people even know K-Y-R.

[15:04] Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[15:04] Speaker 1: Right? Like, you know, you know that you're getting into the psyche-

[15:08] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[15:08] Speaker 1: ... and you're doing it for, for great reasons, for good reasons.

[15:12] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[15:12] Speaker 1: So tell me, what, why are you doing it? What do you want to achieve?

[15:17] Speaker 2: Um, look, at, at the end of the day, I've got, uh, you know, two young boys, uh, 10 and 12. Uh, you know, my partner's got, uh, kids as well. They're a little bit, uh, older. And, you know, I, I want to leave (laughs) , you know, I know it sounds like a bit of a cliche and all the rest of it, but it's a cliche for a reason, that I want to leave the world a better place for them to grow up in so they don't have to have all the fights and the struggles and the, you know, the stresses and everything, you know, that I've had to go through.

[15:43] Speaker 1: Mm.

[15:44] Speaker 2: Um, you know, I, I wanna leave it at, you know, a, a better, easier life for them.

[15:48] Speaker 1: So can-

[15:48] Speaker 2: Uh, and that's really what it, you know, comes down to.

[15:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that resonates to the heart of everybody out there, that we do want to make this a better world.

[15:58] Speaker 2: Mm.

[15:58] Speaker 1: It's just that people, you know, they, they sort of try to tune into people like you and different groups, trying to figure out, what does that look like?

[16:06] Speaker 2: Mm.

[16:06] Speaker 1: How am I going to do that? Because when I did some public speaking on the topic, that was back in 2022, I found that everybody knew they wanted a better world, but they hadn't thought past a piece of land with chooks and veggies.

[16:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

[16:21] Speaker 1: Right? They, they didn't know, well, how were we going to do it? What happens next?

[16:25] Speaker 2: Yes.

[16:26] Speaker 1: So, you know, people like you guys are helping them with some options and getting-

[16:31] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[16:31] Speaker 1: ... to rethink and have new ideas. Is that right?

[16:35] Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, look, uh, uh, thinking is the number one thing.

[16:39] Speaker 1: Yes.

[16:39] Speaker 2: Um, and, and, and I, even myself, you know, as I've gotten older and, you know, hopefully matured a little bit (laughs) .

[16:46] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[16:46] Speaker 2: Um, I know in the, in the early days, I was very gung-ho, and, "This is this, and that is that," and, "Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang." Whereas now, I'm, you know, I, I provide all that as well, but I'm a lot more about questioning, "Oh, have you thought about this? Have you looked at this? Have you researched that? Oh, do you realize that this and this, when you put them together, don't quite add up? Does that seem strange to you?" And I'm very much about asking people questions wherever possible now, to really get them thinking, because it's that change in thinking, you know, uh, uh, one of our big mottos is the old, you know, give a man a fish, you feed him for, you know, a day, but teach him how to fish and you feed him for life.

[17:18] Speaker 1: Yes.

[17:18] Speaker 2: And that really comes from that thinking process. If we can just get people thinking, first and foremost, it opens up a whole new world, because as I said before, what you focus on is what you see. It's what you get.

[17:29] Speaker 1: Yep.

[17:29] Speaker 2: So if you start thinking about things differently, you're gonna start seeing things differently, you're gonna start seeing different solutions. And then that brings us to the next step, is for those who are, you know, awake and who are starting to think now, we want to provide them with those real-world practical solutions. Yeah, absolutely, there's the, you know, the end goal of the, you know, the big farm with the chickens and solar panels and complete self-sufficiency.

[17:53] Speaker 1: Yep.

[17:54] Speaker 2: Sure, no problem. That's a, you know, that's a great goal to have, and, you know, for some people it might be something they can do in six months. Some might not be able to do it for six years, and some might not be able to do it at all. So there's lots of other very simple little steps that people can take-... uh, on a day-to-day basis, and that's really what we're all about. Showing, you know, explaining to people, you know, not only why you should challenge a refine, but how, you know, simple it is to do when you have the right knowledge. How to, um, you know, challenge, you know, over the top, you know, rates and land tax bills. How to, um, you know, question energy retailers on- on bills. You know, a- all those sort of practical day-to-day things.

[18:35] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[18:35] Speaker 2: Um-

[18:36] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[18:36] Speaker 2: ... you know, what people should be doing at election time.

[18:38] Speaker 1: Yep.

[18:38] Speaker 2: You know, we don't obviously tell people how to vote, but we- we get them thinking about different things that, of course, the mainstream media is not telling people.

[18:45] Speaker 1: Well, it's like, why are you paying fines?

[18:48] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[18:49] Speaker 1: Why are they created?

[18:51] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[18:51] Speaker 1: And why are you voting?

[18:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[18:53] Speaker 1: It's getting people to start thinking about why you're automatically doing a lot of the things that you're doing-

[18:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[19:00] Speaker 1: ... in your life, right?

[19:01] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[19:01] Speaker 1: That's where we all start, yeah?

[19:03] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it's just about thinking about things differently, and once you start down that path, as I say to people, "Doesn't matter where you enter the rabbit hole, as long as you enter." Because once you go down, you're not going to come back out, you know-

[19:15] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[19:15] Speaker 2: ... the same way again. And- and again, I think that's one of the, uh, the reasons that, uh, Know Your Rights group has been, uh, so popular and has- has- has, you know, been around for so long, is because, you know, we don't just focus on one thing.

[19:30] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[19:30] Speaker 2: You know, we- we have things on fines, we have things on the banking system, we have things on, um, you know, elections, we have things on local government rates. We have, you know, things on the straw man concept. We talk about Unidroid, uh, we deal with, you know, the constitution, the Constitution Commission reports. There's so much. So, people will often come to us because of one particular problem, you know, they got a huge rates bill, or they got a, you know, fine. And they'll come to us and look for that bit of information, and then they'll see on the website and go, "Oh, you guys do this as well. Oh, you do that too." And then they start looking and researching and thinking, and that's- that's really what it's all about.

[20:02] Speaker 1: That's the rabbit hole.

[20:04] Speaker 2: That's it.

[20:05] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[20:06] Speaker 2: 100%.

[20:07] Speaker 1: So, can we change? Can we change? Like, there's a couple of different ways of thinking about this.

[20:14] Speaker 2: Absolutely.

[20:14] Speaker 1: Can we change the system, or should we be creating something new?

[20:20] Speaker 2: Um, well, the answer is yes, we can change the system. We absolutely can.

[20:25] Speaker 1: Actually, you- you've got... I know you still go into court and you still do all those sorts of things.

[20:30] Speaker 2: Absolutely.

[20:30] Speaker 1: So has it changed? Has it changed over the last 15 years?

[20:34] Speaker 2: Um, absolutely. I mean, okay, I'll give you a perfect example, and- and I was chatting to someone about this just the other day.

[20:39] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[20:40] Speaker 2: Uh, so here in Victoria, uh, the whole fines system used to be run by an organization called Civic Compliance Victoria.

[20:49] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[20:50] Speaker 2: Now, they, uh, they tended for the contract to- to run the- the system of fines that they were awarded that contract. Uh, so then Aussie Speeding Fines came out and there was, you know, hundred thousands, tens of thousands of people using that Aussie Speeding Fines process to challenge their fines.

[21:06] Speaker 1: Right.

[21:06] Speaker 2: Now, part of the contract, or- or the part of the terms and conditions of the contract with Civic Compliance, was that whenever anyone wrote to them, sent them something in writing, they had to write back and respond.

[21:18] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[21:18] Speaker 2: So, what happened, because all of a sudden there were, you know, an influx of tens of thousands of people writing in and challenging their fines-

[21:24] Speaker 1: You clog the ￂﾦsystem.

[21:25] Speaker 2: ... they could no- they no longer had the staff-

[21:28] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[21:28] Speaker 2: ... pardon me, to- to handle that response. So they went back to the Victorian Government and said, "Listen, this is what's happened. We've been overwhelmed with all these letters and everything. We can't respond as per our contract, so we're, you know, petitioning you for- for more funds so we can bring on more staff and so that we can fulfill the contract." And the Victorian Government said, "Well, no, too bad, so sad. You tendered. That's, you know, that's the terms and conditions. If you can't do it, then, you know, bad luck." And- and they closed, and they shut down, and- and now the whole system has been taken over by Fines Victoria.

[21:57] Speaker 2: Um-

[21:57] Speaker 1: So people- people really need to take note of that.

[22:00] Speaker 2: Oh, 100%. Absolutely.

[22:02] Speaker 1: People clog the system up.

[22:04] Speaker 2: Oh. A- again, a- a- as we tell people, if, you know... I mean, we do whole full day events just on fines.

[22:10] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[22:10] Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, we say, "You know what? If you listen to nothing else that we've said for the whole day, you didn't take on board any of the specific arguments, strategies, techniques, anything we said. If you just took on board one thing, the minute you got the fine in, you turn it over, you fill it out, say, 'I want this heard in court.'" Okay? If everybody just did that for one month, the system would come to a grinding halt.

[22:30] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[22:30] Speaker 2: They can't handle that many cases.

[22:31] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[22:32] Speaker 2: They simply can't do it.

[22:33] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[22:34] Speaker 2: You know, another thing that people don't realize is, and again, there's statistics out there, the media reported on it, okay? Give or take, 50% of people who challenge their fines win. Okay?

[22:45] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[22:46] Speaker 2: 50%. Half the people.

[22:48] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[22:48] Speaker 2: Now, the problem is, there's only about 1 or 2% of people that actually bother to challenge their fines.

[22:54] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[22:54] Speaker 2: Imagine if everybody started doing it.

[22:56] Speaker 1: Yes.

[22:56] Speaker 2: And that's how we change the system.

[22:59] Speaker 1: Well, how do we takeaway though, that, I mean, what stops people from doing that is the programming of authority. I mean, everybody around knows that if you see flashing blue and red lights, something happens in your gut straightaway, you know?

[23:12] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[23:12] Speaker 1: So, you- the first thing that kind of deters people is, um, having to argue or, um, confront authority.

[23:23] Speaker 2: L- it's, it's fear.

[23:24] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[23:24] Speaker 2: It's just fear. Um, y- you know, (clears throat) I, I was talking to, um, a, a person, uh, just recently, and, uh, h- h- he's a very, you know, very quiet, you know... I don't know him from the Know Your Rights group. I know him through, you know, a friend of a friend and, and, you know, really nice bloke, but very quiet, very, you know, doesn't challenge authority i- i- in any way. And he was trying to get up to, uh, Eildon recently, to check on his houseboat.

[23:50] Speaker 2: And-

[23:50] Speaker 1: Oh, the bush fires.

[23:51] Speaker 2: ... um, the, and the bush fires, and so there was a police, um, like a blockade or something there. And, uh, and he's, uh, s- spoken to me and I said, "Well, look, just tell them that, you know, you're going up there to, to check on your, you know, your houseboat, because it's, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's like a second home. You're just... With the fires and the winds, you're just checking that it's okay." So, anyway, and I, and I explained a bit about the stuff to him. I said, "At the end of the day, you know, it's like COVID. The police officers themselves don't actually have the authority.

[24:18] Speaker 2: The Minister has the authority to stop, but that has to be delegated and that can only be delegated with an actual instrument, and I guarantee they don't have the instruments."

[24:26] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[24:27] Speaker 2: So anyway, I explained all this to him. Anyway, he went up and he, he, he rang me back that night and said, "Oh my God, you're not gonna believe it. I went, I explained I was gonna go to the houseboat and everything." And he said, "Look, you know, I find it fascinating that everybody just wants to check on their houseboats on a Friday afternoon. That seems very convenient." Um, and he's like, "Well, that's when I've got off work.

[24:43] Speaker 2: I finish work, I'm coming to check."

[24:44] Speaker 1: Yes.

[24:44] Speaker 2: And he said, "No, we're not gonna, we're not gonna let you through." And he said, "And I don't know where it came from," he said, "but just somehow I just blurted out, 'You can't actually legally stop me though, can you?'" And the officer, he looked at him and said, uh, "No, you're right. On your way, sir. Have a nice night." (laughs) You know?

[24:58] Speaker 1: No, hey.

[24:58] Speaker 2: And it was just, just that, and he goes, "Oh my God." He goes, "I was, I was freaking out when I said it, thinking, 'Oh my God, what have I done?'" He said, "But then it was so empowering when I did it and I got through."

[25:06] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[25:07] Speaker 2: And, and it's, it's, it... That's that feeling, that confidence.

[25:10] Speaker 1: Yep.

[25:10] Speaker 2: You know, we can sit here all day and explain strategies and techniques to people, and, and they'll get them.

[25:15] Speaker 1: Yep.

[25:15] Speaker 2: Um, but explaining that, that empowerment, that personal empowerment, that confidence that comes with standing up for your rights is something that you just can't understand until you've actually done it. That-

[25:26] Speaker 1: And that's how you flick off that switch of fear.

[25:29] Speaker 2: Correct. And, and it is, it's like... 'Cause you, once you've done it once, you know, it's like that rush, that feeling, you wanna do it again.

[25:35] Speaker 1: Right.

[25:35] Speaker 2: Um-

[25:36] Speaker 1: A- and I hope it's confidence for people too, that-

[25:39] Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.

[25:40] Speaker 1: ... you can't, you can't sit on the outside of a problem-

[25:43] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[25:43] Speaker 1: ... and think about it, and think about it, and talk about it, and talk about it. You have to take some sort of action. Yeah.

[25:49] Speaker 2: Gotta take action, absolutely.

[25:50] Speaker 1: And that little bit of action for him was making a comment-

[25:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[25:53] Speaker 1: ... which was just query-

[25:55] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[25:56] Speaker 1: ... and boom. On went the light bulb.

[25:59] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And again, you know, he wasn't being mean, he wasn't being a smart arse.

[26:04] Speaker 1: No.

[26:04] Speaker 2: He, he was just like, "But hang on a minute, you can't actually legally stop us, can you?" And he was like, "No, I can't."

[26:09] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[26:09] Speaker 2: And, you know, this is the thing. A- and again, once you understand... Again, I, I, I worked, you know, with Victoria Police for 13 years, so I understand, you know. I've spoke to many, many police officers over the years, so I know how they're trained, I, I... And, you know, when you talk to these people, you know, you understand that they are trained to be in control from the minute you... And how do they control you? By asking questions.

[26:30] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[26:30] Speaker 2: So, you know, when I get pulled over, I jump out of the car. "Hey, officer, how's it going?" You know, "Any issues? Something I can help you with?" And all of a sudden, they're like, "Oh, you know, this guy's not buying into the thing. He's as confident as we are." And, you know, just totally friendly, normal guy, hanging out. Again, yeah, they got the fancy uniform and the hat and the gun on their belt, but they're just guys and girls like you and I, you know?

[26:51] Speaker 1: Yes.

[26:51] Speaker 2: They're, they're no different.

[26:52] Speaker 1: Yes.

[26:52] Speaker 2: They're just, they're just people. They just happen to be playing a particular role for that particular time on that particular day.

[26:58] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[26:58] Speaker 2: That we understand that they're, they're humans. They've got worries and concerns and fears and issues, just like we do.

[27:05] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[27:05] Speaker 2: Um, they're, they're no different.

[27:07] Speaker 1: And agendas.

[27:08] Speaker 2: And we can look at them like that.

[27:08] Speaker 1: And a- ... Yeah, and agendas and, and-

[27:10] Speaker 2: Agendas, of course, yeah.

[27:11] Speaker 1: ... yeah.

[27:12] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[27:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's their training. It's what they've been trained to do.

[27:15] Speaker 2: Correct.

[27:15] Speaker 1: But we're allowed to question that.

[27:17] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[27:17] Speaker 1: And, as you say, respectfully. There's no need for everybody to start getting angry and crazy out there.

[27:23] Speaker 2: Oh, no. No, definitely not.

[27:24] Speaker 1: That doesn't help.

[27:24] Speaker 2: And look, and some people do, they take it too far and it's just like, whoa, just, just calm down. Just... And this is the thing. Once you, you know, once you actually know your rights, once you've done the research, once you've, you know, got all the information up in, in there and you know it inside out, upside down, back to front, and you have that confidence, there's no need for any of that bravado or anything, because you, you know you can handle yourself. Um, you know, a- again, for my thing, like, I was, you know... Not that it looks like it now, but I used to be a skinny, weedy, little runt (laughs) at, at school and I got picked on all the time.

[27:56] Speaker 1: Wow.

[27:56] Speaker 2: Um, and eventually I decided, "Right, I'm gonna do something about this." So I went and I, and I started learning, you know, martial arts. And for the first, you know, six months, of course, that made things even worse, 'cause now everyone teased me as the Karate Kid and-

[28:07] Speaker 1: Okay.

[28:07] Speaker 2: ... and all that.

[28:08] Speaker 1: Yep.

[28:08] Speaker 2: But eventually I got to the point where I'd trained up to a level enough that I knew how to, you know, look after myself and protect myself. And there was, you know... And people, you know, I've spoken to years later, they go, "Oh, there was just something about you. There was a, a shift that w- it was just like, yeah, we're not gonna mess with this guy anymore," you know?

[28:23] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[28:24] Speaker 2: Not that I was a, you know, big muscles (laughs) or anything like that. I was still the same guy, but I just... I knew what I knew. I knew how to look after myself if anything happened, and, you know, people, people can sense that. They, they pick on the weak.

[28:35] Speaker 1: Absolutely.

[28:36] Speaker 2: And, and-

[28:36] Speaker 1: Absolutely.

[28:37] Speaker 2: ... and so when you've got that confidence that you know your rights, it's like, "Yeah, right, we're not gonna mess with this guy."

[28:41] Speaker 1: Well, there's that word knowing, and knowing comes from experience, doesn't it? You know?

[28:46] Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yep.

[28:47] Speaker 1: That's when you say, "I know how to ride a bike. I know how to do this." Yeah?

[28:51] Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly.

[28:52] Speaker 1: And I've... You know, something that I've always realized is that the clearer, the more clarity you have within you, the more clarity you have outside of you.

[29:01] Speaker 2: Oh, exactly.

[29:02] Speaker 1: So, if I had people that were saying to me, "I've got a fine and I, I'm going to court. Am I gonna be okay?" And I'd go, "Well, tell me. C- h- can you handle it?" And as soon as they'd wobble, I'd go, "You're not ready. You're not ready." And I mean, even if people, like you're saying, you know, they learn and they learn and they start putting it into practice, even if you have to just write up what you would like to say on a piece of paper and have it in the car with you, there's nothing that stops you if you get pulled over or if you have to go to the police station or... You can read it off a piece of paper too.

[29:34] Speaker 2: A- oh, look... Absolutely. And again, I, I, I like to reframe those things for people. I find it's one of the most powerful things, because...Again, if you get pulled over and you don't say, you know, the right thing in- in the right way, what's the worst that's gonna happen? You're just gonna get the ticket anyway. So you're not gonna lose anything by trying-

[29:53] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[29:53] Speaker 2: ... but you might get a win. It's the same thing by going to court. Don't sit there going, "Oh my God, I have to win this at all costs, it's life and death." People get their work themselves into a panic.

[30:01] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[30:01] Speaker 2: Just go, "You know what? Five years ago, or a year ago, what- I would have just paid this fine anyway. So I'm not losing anything. Even if I lose the case-"

[30:09] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[30:09] Speaker 2: "... I'm not losing anything. I'm only doing what I would have done previously anyway. But you know what? I might actually get a win, and I might learn a few things along the way. I might help clog up the court system, and I might inspire, you know, others to do the same thing as well." And it's when you reframe it like that way, it just takes away all that fear and that panic. It's just like, you know, I go into court now, I'm- I'm- I'm having fun. I will literally go in there and, you know, my goal isn't to win my case. My goal is to- is to make the magistrate laugh, okay?

[30:36] Speaker 1: Yep.

[30:36] Speaker 2: Because when you make a magistrate laugh, straight away, you're elevated like ten levels, uh, above all the other muppets out there that are-

[30:44] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[30:44] Speaker 2: ... you know, just got no idea what the hell they're doing. And they're like, "Okay, oh, a breath of fresh air in my courtroom today." You know? And that's how they look at it.

[30:53] Speaker 1: Well, it's, it's-

[30:53] Speaker 2: And they have fun and- and stuff.

[30:54] Speaker 1: It's relating man to man, woman to woman, whatever.

[30:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[30:58] Speaker 1: It's people relating to each other-

[31:00] Speaker 2: Correct.

[31:00] Speaker 1: ... instead of being caught up in this serious system. Yeah.

[31:04] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And that's it, people panic. And it's just like, again, you know, magistrates, judges, whatever, th- they're all men and women like us. They've all got a mortgage, they've all got rat bag kids (laughs) , they've all, you know, they've all got all the same stresses and issues that we do.

[31:18] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[31:18] Speaker 2: But people have this perception, "Oh, they're sitting up there in this big chair," or, "They've got the big fancy wig on," or whatever it is.

[31:24] Speaker 1: Yes.

[31:25] Speaker 2: And they- they panic. It's just that they're human.

[31:26] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[31:27] Speaker 2: They're all human.

[31:28] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[31:28] Speaker 2: They are human.

[31:28] Speaker 1: It's a great, that's a great way to look at it, is reframing it.

[31:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[31:32] Speaker 1: And try to see that this is you're having an experience.

[31:36] Speaker 2: Correct.

[31:36] Speaker 1: You're having your first experience, so give it a go.

[31:40] Speaker 2: Correct.

[31:40] Speaker 1: Just give it a go. I found that starting to talk to some police officers, like, if I'd go to go into a shop and there was a moto- motorcycle nearby, or a car, a police car, I'd go up and have a chat, and I'd take-

[31:52] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[31:52] Speaker 1: ... I had one of those common law cards, I was always just investigating, like, how all these different systems were working.

[31:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[31:59] Speaker 1: And I wanted to see, I don't know, I wanted to ba- have diplomatic immunity. That was the thing on the top of my mind. It's like, "How do I operate my own jurisdiction?" That was the game I've been playing for a long time, right? And how do I negotiate with that jurisdiction outside there as well? So I would go up to them with my common law card, and I'd have a conversation and go, "Hey guys, what do you think about this? Like, if you pulled me up, right, what would you say?" And I just got in their heads.

[32:28] Speaker 2: Yep.

[32:28] Speaker 1: I wanted to understand their thinking.

[32:31] Speaker 2: Yep.

[32:31] Speaker 1: And to get to hang around and rub shoulders with them, so that I was then getting rid of that authority fear-

[32:38] Speaker 2: Correct.

[32:38] Speaker 1: ... that was there.

[32:40] Speaker 2: Yep.

[32:40] Speaker 1: And I highly recommend that you, yeah, y- have a go, guys. Have a go-

[32:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[32:44] Speaker 1: ... at doing things like that. Yeah.

[32:46] Speaker 2: And- and again, if you, if you, if you're a first, and one of the other best bits of advice I can give people, if you're a first timer going to court for- for whatever reason, go in before your case and just spend a day, half a day, even a couple of hours, and just have a-

[33:01] Speaker 1: Great idea.

[33:01] Speaker 2: ... sit in on a court so you can see. 'Cause people who've never been to court have this massive fear of court.

[33:06] Speaker 1: Yep.

[33:06] Speaker 2: Like, it's this big scary thing.

[33:08] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[33:08] Speaker 2: But almost, you know, 100% of the time, people come back to me, you know, via emails or wherever they go, "Oh, I went to court and, oh my God, it was nowhere near as scary as I thought. It was a bit daunting, it was a bit this, a bit that. You know, it felt uncomfortable, but it wa- wa- wasn't anywhere near as bad as what I was making it out to be."

[33:25] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[33:25] Speaker 2: Um, you know, and again, the example I give people, when I very first started my martial arts, you know, journey as a, you know, little old white belt, I was so scared of being hit, and you know, do everything I could to not get hit, and then eventually you get hit, and you go, "Okay, well, that hurt." And then you get hit again, then you get hit again. Once it's happened four or five times, you go, "Well, it's not any great fear." I mean, it's not very pleasant, obviously.

[33:45] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[33:45] Speaker 2: But it's not, "I'm gonna die or anything," it just, "Okay, hurts a little bit." And then it just, it removes that fear, and you can just sort of get on with it then.

[33:52] Speaker 1: And fear is very polarizing, isn't it?

[33:55] Speaker 2: Oh. Yeah.

[33:55] Speaker 1: I find that fear narrows your whole trajectory.

[33:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[33:59] Speaker 1: And you can only see, um, what's going wrong-

[34:04] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[34:04] Speaker 1: ... I suppose-

[34:05] Speaker 2: E-

[34:05] Speaker 1: ... more than what's going right.

[34:06] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[34:06] Speaker 1: It polarizes everything, and you don't get to see the big picture of what's going on.

[34:11] Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely.

[34:13] Speaker 1: Great advice.

[34:13] Speaker 2: And that, that, that's why I gave that 50, you know, 50% fi- it's, it's not made up, it's genuine. You can go out, you can do the, the research, you know. 50% of people who challenge their fines win. So you've got just as much chance of, you know, it going right as you have of it going wrong. So just keep that in mind. You know, glass half full, glass half empty, this is sort of thing.

[34:30] Speaker 1: Yes. And people out there are not hanging around with other people that are confirming for them 50% are doing it. 50%. It's not on the mainstream media. It's not out there in your paradigm-

[34:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[34:44] Speaker 1: ... until you start investigating and researching for yourself. Yeah.

[34:49] Speaker 2: And, and this was that, you know, that concept that you're speaking about there was what literally put us on the map during COVID.

[34:56] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[34:56] Speaker 2: Because of course, the media were trying to make out that anyone that didn't buy into the narrative was, you know, on their own, completely by themselves, they were their own-

[35:04] Speaker 1: Getting water. Yeah.

[35:06] Speaker 2: ... only, only people that were thinking this way, you know, anyone that didn't get the jab was, was gonna be a leper, and no one would ever accept them. And that, you know, I, uh, during COVID, I was actually doing two, uh, video updates a week.

[35:19] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[35:19] Speaker 2: Uh, you know, and some of those videos were getting viewed, you know, 80, 90, 100,000 times.

[35:24] Speaker 1: Yep.

[35:24] Speaker 2: Because people were just desperately trying to, you know, get that message and get that reassurance that they were not the only ones. And I kept s- explaining to people, you know, I talk to people all the time, and there are way more people standing their ground than you could possibly imagine. And now, of course, you know, after time, the truth's coming out, and, and things like that. So, uh, yeah, and it-

[35:43] Speaker 1: Well, and it's growing. It is growing-

[35:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, yeah.

[35:45] Speaker 1: ... actually. Yeah.

[35:46] Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah.

[35:47] Speaker 1: And, and going back to what you said earlier on about how you used to kind of just, you know, like shove information at people-

[35:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[35:54] Speaker 1: ... and do it that way, 'cause I used to be that, I can relate to that.

[35:57] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[35:57] Speaker 1: As we mature, and as we learn, I'm, I listened to some of your...... um, reports and things, and you do have a very balanced way about you of presenting, um, so that it does become an idea for peop-

[36:13] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[36:13] Speaker 1: ... to, you know, take on board and explore for themselves.

[36:17] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[36:17] Speaker 1: You're not telling them what's right and what's wrong. You're just going, "Think about this."

[36:21] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. The example I give people is, ah, "Try it on like a coat. Try the coat on. If the coat fits, great. Walk away, enjoy the coat. If it doesn't, put it down and try on another coat or try on a shirt or whatever."

[36:33] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[36:33] Speaker 2: And that's it. It's just, as I say to people, just try, try ideas on. It's like, it's like with kids. Ah, how do you teach kids? You, you know, you expose them to as many different things, you know, maths, English, science, soccer, tennis, swimming, basketball. You know, let them try everything and figure out what they particularly like.

[36:48] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[36:48] Speaker 2: Some people... Some kids will be more sporty, some kids will be more artistic, whatever it is. So, great. Let... Give them as many opportunities as you can. Let them find, you know, their way in the world and what they like, and it's the same thing. You know, we, we show people lots and lots of different strategies, share lots and lots of information. And, you know, as I say to people, "Don't blindly believe anything I say, ever. But if something I say, you know, captures your attention, if it piques your interest, you know, scribble it down and then go away and do the research." 'Cause I always show people where we find the information, so they can go and, you know, confirm, verify, and validate it for themselves.

[37:21] Speaker 1: Yep.

[37:21] Speaker 2: And that's where the power comes, 'cause, you know, if I sit there in an event and I just stand there and I just speak at people all day, it's still just me sharing my information.

[37:31] Speaker 1: Yes.

[37:31] Speaker 2: Whereas if you take on board and scribble down lots of notes and go off and research it yourself, then it becomes your information, because you've actually studied it and researched it and you know it, and that's where it becomes really, really powerful.

[37:44] Speaker 1: Well, that's where we're rewiring our thinking, aren't we? Those neural pathways-

[37:48] Speaker 2: Yep.

[37:48] Speaker 1: ... and, and, you know, to let everybody know out there, yeah, it gives you headaches. It gives you headaches when you're trying to change your thinking.

[37:56] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[37:56] Speaker 1: It, it does your head in.

[37:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[37:58] Speaker 1: And it's, it's... You know, those kind of terms are for a reason.

[38:01] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[38:01] Speaker 1: It's because you are rewiring yourself.

[38:05] Speaker 2: Yep.

[38:05] Speaker 1: Because we can't keep thinking the way that we've always done, can we?

[38:09] Speaker 2: No. Well, you keep thinking the way you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got.

[38:12] Speaker 1: Yes.

[38:12] Speaker 2: You know? And, and how's that working out for you?

[38:15] Speaker 1: Yes.

[38:15] Speaker 2: If it's working great, great. Keep doing it.

[38:17] Speaker 1: Yep.

[38:17] Speaker 2: But if not, then you need to do something different, and you need to think differently in order to do things differently.

[38:22] Speaker 1: Yes, and that's what groups like yours are all about. And people can access you in all sorts of different ways to find that information out.

[38:30] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[38:30] Speaker 1: But you're absolutely right. You can go around, you can listen to all sorts of different groups but you've got to internalize it somehow.

[38:37] Speaker 2: Yep.

[38:37] Speaker 1: So, where are we headed?

[38:40] Speaker 2: Well, again, the, the... As I say to people in our events, you know, where we're headed is up to everybody out there. The, the elites like to think they're in control and it's up to them.

[38:51] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[38:51] Speaker 2: But that's absolutely not the case. I mean, look at the, look at the, uh, the voice to parliament. They were absolutely certain they were gonna get that across the line.

[38:59] Speaker 1: Yes.

[38:59] Speaker 2: And they didn't.

[39:00] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[39:00] Speaker 2: Uh, look at the director ID. Again, they were certain they were gonna get e- all the directors in Australia to sign up for director ID, and that would be the test case, and then they'd be pushing for digital ID. Well, they failed at the first hurdle, because I think, still as of today, there's something like 700,000 directors that have said, "No, no."

[39:18] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[39:18] Speaker 2: "We're not signing up for director ID." And no one's been prosecuted, no one's been fined, because they know that... How can they f- fine 700,000 people? They can't.

[39:26] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[39:26] Speaker 2: So, absolutely, if we work together collectively, we can take charge. We can take control. We can, we can define the course, uh, a- and the way things go. But, again, it requires everybody to take action. And not everybody has to take exactly the same action, but everybody has to say, "All right, what, you know, what difference do I want to make in the world? What, you know, what changes do I want to see?" And they need to take, you know, regular, congruent action towards making that happen.

[40:00] Speaker 2: Whether that means, you know, listening to our shows, watching our videos, challenging some fines, writing letters to their members of parliament, uh, writing in FOIA requests, sending in My Will letters, but take some action on a regular basis-

[40:15] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[40:15] Speaker 2: ... towards achieving the end result that you want to achieve.

[40:19] Speaker 1: Well, it's like two bubbles of energy, isn't it?

[40:21] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[40:21] Speaker 1: And we've got elite and the, the old jurisdiction-

[40:25] Speaker 2: Yep.

[40:25] Speaker 1: ... as one bubble, and that's a pretty big, pretty ominous bubble, right?

[40:30] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[40:30] Speaker 1: 'Cause everybody's energy has been contributing to that for decades-

[40:35] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[40:35] Speaker 1: ... and centuries, right?

[40:37] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[40:37] Speaker 1: And we've got a new bubble that's been created, and it's probably a couple of generations. I don't know, let's just put that sort of label on it.

[40:45] Speaker 2: Yep. Yep.

[40:45] Speaker 1: And it's building. It's building.

[40:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[40:47] Speaker 1: And what you're saying is, people have to choose, right?

[40:51] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[40:51] Speaker 1: Where they're contributing their energy and their attention to now, and always doing it respectfully, of course.

[40:58] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[40:59] Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean, um, you know, that you s- you start c- contesting everything and that you have to go to court to make changes and you have to write letters to make changes. You can make changes in your own life, can't you?

[41:11] Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

[41:12] Speaker 1: Okay.

[41:12] Speaker 2: And s- And the first thing is just your thinking, and your questioning, you know? When you see something on the mainstream media, you go, "Hmm, does that actually make sense?"

[41:20] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[41:20] Speaker 2: You know, when you get a letter in the mail, just, "Oh, is that, is that actually right?" When you see a newspaper article, you know, you just start by questioning and thinking.

[41:28] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[41:29] Speaker 2: And once you've done that questioning and thinking, you're probably gonna, you know, go down a slightly different path. And then you go, "Okay, well, I might actually make this change in my life, or implement that, or take that on board, or share this story with others," or whatever it is. These little steps that you can take-

[41:43] Speaker 1: Yes.

[41:43] Speaker 2: ... in your day-to-day life-

[41:45] Speaker 1: Yes.

[41:45] Speaker 2: ... to, to make your life better, and then to share that message around to others and to inspire and empower them to take similar steps as well.

[41:54] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I know that I changed the contents of my laundry cupboard. I took out all the chemicals and all those sorts of things, and that was change.

[42:01] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[42:01] Speaker 1: Yeah?

[42:01] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

[42:03] Speaker 1: I made changes in terms of, I don't have debt.

[42:06] Speaker 2: Yep.

[42:07] Speaker 1: I didn't have debt.

[42:07] Speaker 2: Yep.

[42:07] Speaker 1: It took years to do it, but my goal was, I don't want to be plugged up in that system, I don't want to be part of owing and all that sort of stuff.

[42:16] Speaker 2: Yep.

[42:16] Speaker 1: So I started to clean that up as well.

[42:18] Speaker 2: Yep.

[42:19] Speaker 1: There's other steps. I haven't had a TV for 10 years.

[42:23] Speaker 2: Yep.

[42:23] Speaker 1: Right?

[42:23] Speaker 2: Yep.

[42:24] Speaker 1: You know, personal choices, but it's just-

[42:26] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[42:26] Speaker 1: ... challenging yourself to be a part of the new jurisdiction-

[42:31] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[42:31] Speaker 1: ... new bubble, and not contributing as much to the old.

[42:35] Speaker 2: Yep. Yep.

[42:36] Speaker 1: What- what sort of changes, I know that, you know, what you're doing there for everybody else, but what have you changed as well, Mike, if you wouldn't mind, for yourself as well?

[42:44] Speaker 2: Oh, look, absolutely. I mean, you know, m- mainstream media, I don't watch any, you know, TV or anything like that. The only, you know, I'll jump on, on a, you know, on a- on a Tuesday or a Thursday online to some of the mainstream media, um, online articles, just to simply see, you know, what, you know-

[43:00] Speaker 1: What you're gonna report on. (laughs)

[43:01] Speaker 2: What they're, you know, what they're trying to spout so that we can, you know, give people the counter to that.

[43:06] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[43:06] Speaker 2: But as far as, you know, looking at it, you know, all day every day or anything like that, I just, I d- I don't buy into it, uh, you know, at all.

[43:12] Speaker 1: Yep.

[43:12] Speaker 2: You know? A lot more in the way of, you know, self-sufficiency, making sure that we've got stores of things, you know, making sure that we've got, you know, cash tucked away, making sure that there's, you know, gold and silver available, you know, all those sorts of things. Um, and really just talking to people. That's, you know, that's really my big thing, is just talking to people and asking them questions. You know?

[43:32] Speaker 1: And so, you're doing the stores of things, so that you're not 100% reliant-

[43:37] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[43:37] Speaker 1: ... on what's going out, on out there in that old system. Yeah?

[43:40] Speaker 2: Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah, a- and it's fascinating, when you actually, uh, speak to people, I mean, I- I find it amazing, you know, for example, that- that, you know, Labor got in with an overwhelming majority, but yet you talk to anybody and everybody (laughs) in all walks of life, not a single person admits to voting Labor (laughs) . So, how did this happen?

[43:59] Speaker 1: How did that happen? (laughs)

[44:01] Speaker 2: (laughs) you know. Someth- something doesn't quite add up there. But, you know, you talk to people, and of course, when you start talking to people about a particular topic, even if they did do something that's against that topic, they're not gonna talk about it. They're gonna, you know, they're gonna go down your path. And it's just those conversations that- that lea- you know, l- if you can leave someone thinking, you know-

[44:20] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[44:20] Speaker 2: ... if you can leave someone, you know, just looking at things a little bit differently than they did before you came along or before you interacted with them, then-

[44:28] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[44:28] Speaker 2: ... that- that has that ripple effect, you know, the butterfly effect. Um-

[44:31] Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Because for a generation out there, say our 30-somethings and maybe even our 40-somethings, who are doing Sunday brunches and entertaining themselves a lot, they're gonna create more of Sunday brunches and entertaining themselves-

[44:45] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[44:45] Speaker 1: ... a lot, while the rest of the world is moving on in some way.

[44:49] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[44:49] Speaker 1: And, you know, we want everyone to start paying attention-

[44:53] Speaker 2: Yep. Yep.

[44:54] Speaker 1: ... what we're doing.

[44:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That's- that's the biggest thing is just pay attention. I mean, again, you know, I've got a certificate in clinical hypnotherapy, and everybody, you know, s- thinks that's how, you know, watch the watch and I'll make you bark like a chicken or something. You know, (laughs) that's not what it's about. What, uh, hypnotherapy is actually breaking you out of your day-to-day trance. That's what it's all about. Most people jump in the car and drive to work and have no idea how many, you know, lights they stopped at, you know, how many blue cars were next to them or anything, 'cause they're just in the zone and they're just, you know?

[45:25] Speaker 2: And, you know, what-

[45:27] Speaker 1: Unconscious.

[45:27] Speaker 2: ... hypnotherapy, uh, is about, is- is about focusing on everything that you do consciously.

[45:33] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[45:34] Speaker 2: And after you say, "Well, what, you know, why am I going this way? Why don't ... Is there a better way that I could go? Is there a faster way I could go? Is there shortcuts that I could take?" You know? "Why am I voting in this way? Why am I, um, you know, responding to letters in this way? Why am I, you know, just, why am I doing the things that I'm doing in the way that I'm doing them?" Now, you're gonna come up with one of two answers, okay? "Oh, I'm doing it because it's the best way." Perfect. Brilliant. Great answer, 'cause then you can keep doing it, knowing that it's the best way. Or the other answer is, "Uh, well, I don't really know, I'm not really sure." Well, great, now that you're not really sure and you don't really know, then you can ask more questions and find out and ascertain whether it is in fact the best way. And if it's not, then of course you can make the changes that you need to to make sure that it is the best way.

[46:18] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[46:18] Speaker 2: And it- it's a very simple process, but it just takes, as you say, just paying attention.

[46:22] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[46:22] Speaker 2: You just gotta be conscious to it.

[46:24] Speaker 1: Conscious or unconscious. I mean, that's great, 'cause I've studied along the lines of you as well. And what did you have to do? I know that to become conscious all the time, I had to start reminding myself, I had to keep asking myself questions during the day, "Are you awake? Are you awake, Helen? Are you awake? Are you thinking about things?" I had to keep checking in with myself.

[46:46] Speaker 2: Yep.

[46:46] Speaker 1: And then that had to become a habit.

[46:47] Speaker 2: Yep.

[46:47] Speaker 1: How did- how did you do it? I mean, you know, we've all been driving in the car and thought, "How the hell did I get here?" Right?

[46:54] Speaker 2: Yep. Yep.

[46:54] Speaker 1: So we're either unconscious, as you say, or we're conscious.

[46:58] Speaker 2: Yep.

[46:58] Speaker 1: So how did you do it? How did you become the master of your own mind, I suppose?

[47:03] Speaker 2: Um, I guess it- it was- it was literally just when you notice yourself, you know, drifting off or sort of floating away, just bringing yourself back and just- just, you know, just seeing it. And then sometimes if, you know, if it's- if it's appropriate to be drifting off, if you're having a relaxing night at home or- or whatever it is, then you go, "Okay, yeah, I'm drifting off, but it's appropriate now, so I'm gonna let that go."

[47:29] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[47:29] Speaker 2: But if you're driving a car, well, it's probably not appropriate, so you bring yourself back.

[47:33] Speaker 1: Yep.

[47:33] Speaker 2: You know, when you find yourself daydreaming or- or- or things like that.

[47:36] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[47:36] Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, it's just- just being aware.

[47:39] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[47:39] Speaker 2: Uh, just- just sort of trying to stop, you know, on a regular ba- And even, you know, to begin with, you know, you set y- you set an alarm on your phone for every hour.

[47:48] Speaker 1: Okay.

[47:48] Speaker 2: And you can just have the alarm go off, and you, "Oh," okay, and that's just gonna stop you, whatever's doing, "What, whoa. Oh, oh, what am I doing? Where- where am I? Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, no, I'm all good." And then another hour it'll go off, and- and, you know, then n- uh, next week it might be every two hours or four hours or what, and- and then you just do it like that.

[48:03] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[48:03] Speaker 2: But y- uh, that's a process that you can use just to bring yourself back.You know, through external, and then of course, the more you do it, you'll just start to do it internally yourself automatically.

[48:13] Speaker 1: Because when we're conscious, we can then make good choices.

[48:17] Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.

[48:18] Speaker 1: Yes.

[48:19] Speaker 2: That's good. Yeah.

[48:20] Speaker 1: This is alpha and beta kind of thinking you're talking about here.

[48:24] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[48:24] Speaker 1: And when we go into, like, um, alpha, we drop in brain frequency, and we're more suggestible, aren't we?

[48:33] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[48:34] Speaker 1: Yeah?

[48:34] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[48:34] Speaker 1: And that's why TV gets straight in, yeah, marketing gets straight in.

[48:39] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And that's one thing, you know, you, you look at Facebook or Instagram, you see these people just, you know, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, and th- it's their whole thing. As I said, you know, I will have, uh, a, that I set aside an hour on a, on a Tuesday, uh, before the radio show, an hour on a Thursday, and I will consciously get on to some of the social media channels. Again, just to see what's, you know, what's, you know, being spread around, what people are talking about-

[49:05] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[49:05] Speaker 2: ... so that then I can address them on the shows. But I'm not just-

[49:08] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[49:08] Speaker 2: ... sitting There mindlessly all day every day, you know, scrolling through the feed.

[49:10] Speaker 1: That's another good point too, because people go unconscious while they're-

[49:14] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[49:14] Speaker 1: I mean, that's why people lose an hour or two hours and go-

[49:17] Speaker 2: Oh.

[49:17] Speaker 1: ... "What the hell have I been doing?"

[49:19] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[49:20] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. That's being asleep at the wheel, isn't it? (laughs)

[49:22] Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's all d- by design, because that's wh- that, that's how these groups, you know, make their money, you know. They, they have ads, and they have little stories and pictures and videos and things that suck you in, and the more you're on their platform and their channel, the more ads you're seeing, and so then they can charge people to do ads, and that's, that's how it all works. And again, once you just, once you actually understand how it all works, you look at it differently and go, "Oh, yeah, I see what's going on there." Uh, you know, I mentioned, you know, I'd like to go on a holiday, you know, to my wife yesterday, and, and all of a sudden, oh, there's all these things on my Facebook f- you know, cheap hotels, cheap cruises, cheap flights, you know.

[50:01] Speaker 2: (both laugh)

[50:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, to the very same place you were talking about.

[50:03] Speaker 2: Y- yeah, exactly.

[50:04] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[50:05] Speaker 2: And it's all, all by design, and once you understand that, you see it for what it is, and again, it, then it takes away that, that power again.

[50:12] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. I remember just myself when I, I challenged myself to take Facebook off my mobile phone, this was probably five or six years ago, I had to listen to what the mind was coming up with trying to tell me not to do that.

[50:26] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[50:27] Speaker 1: Yeah? Even when I challenged myself to put my mobile phone somewhere away from the side of the bed at night-

[50:33] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[50:33] Speaker 1: ... I'd put it in another room.

[50:35] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[50:35] Speaker 1: The mind was challenging me then to say I'd miss a phone call, something would be wrong with my kids, there'd be an emergency. It's quite crazy how addicted we become-

[50:45] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[50:45] Speaker 1: ... to these things.

[50:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[50:47] Speaker 1: And when we're focusing on that, we're not focusing on our own lives.

[50:51] Speaker 2: Yep. Absolutely. That's-

[50:53] Speaker 1: We're creating somebody else's.

[50:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, oh, look, it, it, it shocks and concerns me, you know, how many people watch, y- you know, these ridiculous, you know, train wreck TV shows.

[51:07] Speaker 1: Yep.

[51:08] Speaker 2: You know, they get so ingrained in, in, in these soap operas and, and, and what other people... Just like, h- how have you even got time if you are focused on and, and working on and designing your own life, how have you got any time to even think about or worry about or be concerned about what someone else is doing that you don't even know?

[51:28] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[51:28] Speaker 2: I mean, okay, I can understand if you, you, you buy into your kid's life or your brother's or sister's or mother's or father's-

[51:34] Speaker 1: Totally. Totally.

[51:35] Speaker 2: ... 'cause they're related, but you, you, you're investing time and energy i- into some TV show, following somebody, dancing with some nobody, you know, cooking some rubbish no one's gonna eat, you know, renovating some box that you're not gonna live in. I mean, you know, who cares?

[51:50] Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's a, it's a good point, right? Because if y- they channeled all that energy into their own lives-

[51:57] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[51:57] Speaker 1: ... they could probably create the beautiful life that they do want for themselves.

[52:00] Speaker 2: I, I've said this to people, you know, more times than I can count. If you put the same amou- I said, be honest, calculate how much time, effort, and energy you spend on watching TV and on social media. If you put the same amount of time, effort, and energy into creating a little side business, you know-

[52:16] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[52:16] Speaker 2: ... you, you, you could probably replace your full-time income inside of, you know, 12 months.

[52:21] Speaker 1: Yes.

[52:21] Speaker 2: But people don't realize they're doing it. "Oh, but I'm just sitting down having my dinner watching this, and, and then I'll watch that, and oh, then I'll go to bed." You, you, you've just lost four hours.

[52:31] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[52:31] Speaker 2: It's half a working day.

[52:33] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[52:33] Speaker 2: If you put four hours a day into building a business, some little side business, whatever it is-

[52:39] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[52:39] Speaker 2: ... you know how much money you could be making? Do you know how many, how positively you could be impacting other people by providing a, a, a, you know, new goods or services to them that, you know?

[52:50] Speaker 1: Especially-

[52:50] Speaker 2: And instead, you're wasting it all on, on TV and, and Facebook.

[52:54] Speaker 1: Especially, everybody, listen up, especially if you're doing something that you love, I mean, just listen to Mike, right?

[53:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[53:00] Speaker 1: How committed he talks about his life and the things that he's doing, you're like a fire hydrant, right?

[53:05] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[53:05] Speaker 1: It's like, 'cause you're just so passionate and, and, you, you, you know, are you enjoying what you're doing?

[53:11] Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. I love it. I love it.

[53:13] Speaker 1: Exactly.

[53:13] Speaker 2: 'Cause you're making a difference. You're genuinely helping people.

[53:16] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[53:17] Speaker 2: And, you know, h- how can you not love that? And hopefully, you know, fingers crossed, making, you know, making a positive impact, you know, on a, on a more global scale along the way as well.

[53:26] Speaker 1: Yes. Absolutely. So, I mean, people need to find what it is that they love for starters, right? And then just start to give it some focus, because then those three or four hours a day that you're talking about, they're not a chore.

[53:39] Speaker 2: No.

[53:40] Speaker 1: Chore, if there's something you enjoy.

[53:42] Speaker 2: Absolutely. You know, do what you love and the money will follow, as the old saying goes, you know?

[53:47] Speaker 1: Yes. Yes.

[53:47] Speaker 2: Just find something that you're passionate about, even if it's, you know, a, a, a hobby. But you, you're not gonna change lives and make money watching, you know, soap operas, you know?

[53:55] Speaker 1: No. You're making money for somebody else.

[53:58] Speaker 2: For somebody else. Right.

[53:59] Speaker 1: Right?

[53:59] Speaker 2: Because they go, "Oh, well, there's a million people watching this. We'll make the next season or whatever it is," you know?

[54:04] Speaker 1: Yes.

[54:05] Speaker 2: Um, a- a- and, so if you're not living your life, you're living someone else's. Um-

[54:09] Speaker 1: So watch your thinking, firstly, yeah? Everybody, watch your thinking. Keep conscious, right?

[54:14] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[54:14] Speaker 1: And watch where your attention's going and what you're actually addicted to during-

[54:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[54:21] Speaker 1: ... the day.

[54:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[54:21] Speaker 1: Yeah?

[54:21] Speaker 2: Absolutely.

[54:22] Speaker 1: Whether it's social media, whether it's the latest Netflix, whether it's like... You know, people don't even probably stop and look at how much time they are spending on things that aren't productive.

[54:34] Speaker 2: No, I, look, I do, you know... Again, we're sort of moving into my success coaching business a little bit.

[54:38] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[54:38] Speaker 2: But that's one of the things that I, I get people to do, is to, you know, for, for a week is to s- sit there with a, a, a pen and paper, uh-

[54:46] Speaker 1: Yep.

[54:46] Speaker 2: ... and, and the two exercises I get them to go through is to note down every, um, you know, yeah, i- in blocks of, you know, 30 minutes what they're spending their, their time on. Um, and the other thing is what they're putting into their body, so what they're eating-

[55:00] Speaker 1: Yes.

[55:00] Speaker 2: ... what they're drinking-

[55:01] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[55:01] Speaker 2: ... and actually keep a record of it, because most people are quite shocked (laughs) when they actually realize, "Oh, I had that chocolate biscuit, and I had that lolly, and I had that can of Coke," and, you know, and you add it up over a week and go, "Oh my God, I can't believe I actually ate and drank," you know?

[55:14] Speaker 1: "I'm a sugar addict."

[55:16] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[55:16] Speaker 1: "Oh my god." Yeah.

[55:17] Speaker 2: Correct, exactly.

[55:18] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[55:18] Speaker 2: You know, "A- a- and I'm a social media addict and I," and I'm a, you know, I'm a, you know, TV addict. And again, that's fine. As I say to people, "Don't..." You know, people will be, "Oh, but what if I find all this out?" Well, if you find all that out, then great, 'cause you know what? Now you realize it, now you're consciously aware of it, and now you can do something to change it, because you can't, you can't fix a problem that you're not aware of.

[55:39] Speaker 1: Correct.

[55:39] Speaker 2: So, we all know we should do more exercise and eat better and, you know, but that one day that you, you, you know... The genes don't do up.

[55:46] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[55:46] Speaker 2: You go, "All right, I get it. I gotta do something now. Enough's enough. All right, I'm, I'm, I'm onto it." You know? But you've gotta have that realization, that aha moment.

[55:54] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[55:54] Speaker 2: And so, you know, that aha moment quite often comes from people, because at the end of the week, you know, I touch base, and we go, "So, how many hours were you watching TV? How many hours were you on social media? How many hours were you doing, you know, completely unimportant, irrelevant things? And, you know, how much crap were you eating (laughs) and drinking?" And they go, " (gasps) ," you know, like, "Oh my God, I didn't realize." I said, "Great, now you do, so now it's up to you if you choose to do something about it or not."

[56:17] Speaker 1: That's-

[56:17] Speaker 2: And that's the thing.

[56:17] Speaker 1: ... a great exercise for everybody out there. So we want critical thinkers, right?

[56:21] Speaker 2: Yup.

[56:22] Speaker 1: And we want people to do an exercise to start looking at what they are focusing on in their life, half-hour intervals, yeah?-

[56:30] Speaker 2: Yup.

[56:30] Speaker 1: ... and what they're eating and drinking, and do that over a week, yeah?

[56:34] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[56:34] Speaker 1: Because isn't, isn't one of the other little gorgeous little mottos out there, "Know thyself"?

[56:40] Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm not saying you can never have a, a, a chocolate bar or, or, you know, look at Facebook, but do it consciously. Say, "I know this chocolate biscuit is not good for me, but I'm going to have one tonight as a treat," or, "I'm going to have an ice cream because it's a hot day," or whatever it is. That's perfectly fine. I'm not saying you can't have any more fun and, and, uh, uh-

[57:01] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[57:01] Speaker 2: ... or anything.

[57:02] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[57:02] Speaker 2: But just do it consciously.

[57:04] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[57:04] Speaker 2: Be aware of what you're doing and, and, and make conscious choices rather than just doing it automatically and reaching for the cookie jar or whatever it is.

[57:12] Speaker 1: Well, it's finding some balance and seeing-

[57:14] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[57:14] Speaker 1: ... where there's excess as well.

[57:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[57:16] Speaker 1: Yeah? It's just self-awareness, which is-

[57:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[57:18] Speaker 1: ... wonderful. Okay, so what now? How do people get in touch with you?

[57:25] Speaker 2: Uh, so, I mean, obviously the simplest thing is just to go to our website, just knowyourrightsgroup.com.au. Uh, you'll find tons and tons of information there, so that's, that's the best place to start. Uh, people are welcome to, uh, follow us on, uh, Facebook and Instagram. Again, just look up Know Your Rights Group, uh, you'll find us there. Uh, we've got a Bitchute channel, we've got a YouTube channel. Uh, you can, uh, listen to our radio show every Tuesday night.

[57:50] Speaker 2: Again, you do that through the website, so you'll see the-

[57:52] Speaker 1: All the links are there. All the links are there.

[57:54] Speaker 2: Yeah. Y- the radio show tab, and you can just click on the, you know, listen live. Uh, so yeah, everything's there. Everything's there and, uh, on the website and on, on social media, and uh-

[58:04] Speaker 1: Fabulous.

[58:05] Speaker 2: ... yeah.

[58:05] Speaker 1: Fabulous. So, thank you so much for your story today. Thank you for coming from Burwood and the, the starts of things back there, and, and explaining to us how you connected with groups along the way. You've continually transformed yourself and others along the way, and change, continuous change is important, isn't it?

[58:24] Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely.

[58:25] Speaker 1: What happens to us if we don't change?

[58:28] Speaker 2: Well, eh, y- as I say to people, you know, the, the world keeps spinning, so even if you stop for a moment, you're actually going backwards, 'cause life is evolving. Life's always constantly moving. So i- if you're not moving at the same or greater rate, you're actually going backwards. So again-

[58:44] Speaker 1: And what's the price?

[58:44] Speaker 2: ... just something to be aware of.

[58:45] Speaker 1: What's the price you pay when you stop, when you're trying to sit in that comfort zone?

[58:49] Speaker 2: Well, look (laughs) , again, don't get me started on comfort, you know. The- this is the, the biggest killer in the world is comfort, because that is the stuff that's... You know, look at the statistics of how many people die within five years of retiring-

[59:05] Speaker 1: Yes.

[59:05] Speaker 2: ... because they've become comfortable and-

[59:07] Speaker 1: My son was one. Yep.

[59:08] Speaker 2: ... they stop.

[59:09] Speaker 1: Yep.

[59:09] Speaker 2: And that's, you know... So that's the ultimate price, is literally death.

[59:13] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[59:13] Speaker 2: Um, but, you know, a- Australia especially, you know, so many people still, here still have this, "She'll be right, mate," mentality.

[59:22] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[59:22] Speaker 2: Um, and, because you know what? Everyone bitches and moans about taxes and fines and this, that, and everything else, but you know what? People have still got a fridge full of beer, they've got a big screen TV to watch the footy on.

[59:32] Speaker 1: People are comfortable.

[59:33] Speaker 2: Uh, they're comfortable. You know, they don't... You know, they're not like some places where there's people standing with AK47s on every second corner and, you know, bombs going off and, and stuff like that. We are really still very, very comfortable.

[59:44] Speaker 1: Yep.

[59:44] Speaker 2: And that's the problem, because when you're comfortable, you don't wanna rock the boat. You don't wanna potentially move into a position of, you know, uncomfortable.

[59:51] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[59:51] Speaker 2: But that's... Uncomfortable is where you learn and grow. Think about, you know, your experiences in life. It's when you had, you know, tragedies and, and you lost your job and your, you know, girlfriend or boyfriend left you or, you know, the dog died. It- it's these moments of upheaval, that's where you learnt and grew the most.

[01:00:07] Speaker 1: They propel us.

[01:00:08] Speaker 2: You're not gonna grow when you're sitting there, comfortable.

[01:00:10] Speaker 1: They propel us onto better, don't they?

[01:00:12] Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah. Onwards and upwards, always.

[01:00:14] Speaker 1: All right, Mike. We're, we're done. We're up, we're out, out of time unfortunately, but thank you so much.

[01:00:19] Speaker 2: No worries.

[01:00:19] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for letting everybody know your journey and some of the insights about you and how you think, and for helping people. Thank you for helping people. Um, onwards and upwards. Thank you so much, Mike.

[01:00:32] Speaker 2: Absolutely. No worries. Thanks, Helen. (instrumental music) Welcome to Inspired Radio with Helen Taylor. Get ready to be inspired. Stories have power and conversations spark change, so let's create a new world and get started right now.