[00:03] Speaker 1: Welcome, everyone. Today is Sunday, February 8th, 2026, Super Bowl Sunday. Can you believe it? And this is the Morgellons ThinkTank Call of the Week. It is also our first BBC podcast, and I am Robin, the co-host. We have a really special program for you today. We are, uh, so lucky to have Kerryann Allman, uh, with us. And (mic rustles) I just want ... So you know Morgellons is such an insidious, confusing, mysterious disease to many people. And, um, you know, traditional doctors and medicine don't understand it. They diagnos- they diagnose it as a delusional parasitosis.

[00:56] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[00:57] Speaker 1: And, and it's really hard to find any help. It's really hard to find any help. I, uh, my home, I had people come, and my house had gotten infested with (laughs) it was crazy, with bedbugs, mites, and fleas, which all car- are vectors. They carry Morgellons. And so I also got Morgellons, and it took me... I mean, I couldn't believe I had all of these things going on. That was crazy. So it took me months to just figure that out. And then I hired an exterminator to get rid of the fleas, and he brought the springtails into my house. When ... And I caught one, and I said, "What is this?" He goes, "Oh, that's a springtail. They don't, they don't do anything." My house was filled with them. So, I fired the exterminator (laughs) . And, you know, and I was ready to burn my house down. It was, it was a, a rough time, very dark.

[01:57] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[01:57] Speaker 1: And I went to church, and I asked my pastors to pray for me. And they prayed for God to bring me solutions. The next day, I found Richard and his book, and that was a turning point. S- and then I learned about his call that he's had every week, and I started, and I joined that. I got a coach, and I made every mistake you could make in the book, because that's who I am. And, and, um, and through my coach, and Richard, and this supportive community, I got my life back. So, I'm here to tell you there's hope. It works if you work it. And, um, and at this time, I'm so honored to introduce Richard Kunes, who is a world-leading expert, author on Morgellons and other skin parasites, and Kerryann Allman, (bell dings) who is the founder of Morgellons Uncensored, an amazing online group with 13,600 people. So, we're so thrilled to have both of these people with us, and take it away.

[03:13] Speaker 3: Thank you-

[03:14] Speaker 1: Thanks.

[03:14] Speaker 3: ... Robin, my super co-host. How are you today?

[03:18] Speaker 1: Good.

[03:18] Speaker 3: Are you recovering from your cold?

[03:22] Speaker 1: I ... Uh, it was more than a cold, and yes, I'm recovering.

[03:25] Speaker 3: Little COVID. Yeah. Well, you're looking good today. (bell dings) And I must have-

[03:30] Speaker 1: Thank you.

[03:31] Speaker 3: ... picked up the psychic vibes. I got a little cold myself.

[03:34] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[03:34] Speaker 3: Anyway. Uh, let's get off to a good start with our federal regulations. The FDA requires me to inform everybody on this call that before you take any of our recommendations, before, if you choose to do my King Diet or accept any recommendations that we may discuss on this call, that you are to thoroughly discuss them with your medical doctor to make sure they do not interfere with any health problems you're presently experiencing. The AMA requires me to inform you that none of us on this call are medical doctors, or trained in licensed medicines. Therefore, we do not diagnose, treat, cure, mitigate or prevent any disease. What we are allowed to do, by law, is to educate you. Now, how can we educate you? Well, those of you on the call who are in my program are very familiar with this amazing King Diet. We- so it's different than any other diet in the world. I mean, can you imagine a diet that doesn't allow carrots, peas, and, uh, olive oil, and, uh, may- all fruits, you know?

[04:45] Speaker 3: And, uh, uh, or even a Tic Tac breath mint? I mean, it's- it's crazy, but it works. So we're allowed to educate you how to make the diet work. We're allowed to educate you how to clean your skin. You know, I see a lot of pa- Facebook posts about people, and they, they love these pictures of this stuff coming out of their skin, and the hairs and things, and- and they're asking what to do, and somebody says, "Oh, well, just do this." But they don't mention anything about the need to disinfect the environment. I mean, Jesus.

[05:23] Speaker 3: If it, if it-

[05:24] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[05:24] Speaker 3: ... even possible that they sugget- what they suggested would work, if you don't disinfect your environment, what good is it? You're just gonna keep getting ... Because, you know, you are a walking, talking, breathing parasite machine. That means everywhere you go, to work, in your automobile, to the barbershop, the grocery store, to your home, to your attic, to your basement ...... these organisms are shedding, S-H-E-D-D-I-N-G, from your body (bell chimes) onto the furniture and your automobile and everything. And if you were miraculously able to get rid of it, just like quick, magic, the next time you sat in that automobile, you'd be re-infected. So no matter how great the advice is, unless you know what to do, it's ... Yeah, that's what it's worth, all right? So we're allowed to educate you how to disinfect your environment. Now some people think, "Well, if I just spray ammonia once a day, that'll ..." No, no, no, no, no, no. That, that, that's just a tiny little bit.

[06:44] Speaker 3: You've gotta eradicate these things. There are millions of 'em and they are there to attack you. And it's a war, and unless you are really indignant about getting rid of 'em, they're just gonna keep re-infecting you. So the se- the other goal is to clean your skin. Now, again, you'll see things on Facebook about, "Well, I did this and all this stuff came out of my skin." Well, that's wonderful. Oh, you know, you can keep doing that for the next 20 years, that stuff is gonna keep coming out, right? (laughs) So, that's nice to know how to get the stuff out, but it's important to know how to stop it from being there to even come out. (bell chimes) So, three goals, in my, in my book, three goals. One, make the diet work. Two, clean your skin. Three, disinfect. And then fourth is to build h- build health and immune functioning. Now, I will make a statement. Morgellons is not a complicated, difficult issue to get rid of. Really, it is not. The antidote is to alkalize your body and boron.

[08:03] Speaker 3: Put those two together, and if it is only Morgellons that you have, along with the diet, boom! That's it. But I get questionnaires from people. It's a rather sophisticated questionnaire. It has a lot of questions, obviously. And from the answers, I can tell whether you're only dealing with Morgellons, or whether you have some other complications such as coloboma. Now, that's a word I rarely see on Facebook or anywhere. But yet, do you know that 90% of people with Morgellons also have coloboma? Mites, that's another thing. Well, there are groups about mites, and you sometimes do see mites on the, uh, Facebook pages. And, of course, strongyloides sarcoides, and there are many others. There's worms, uh, tapeworms, and, uh, all kinds of other complications that ... Fungal issues. Candida albicans overgrowth and other fungal issues that, uh, complicate things, which we can often need to take into e- uh, into account.

[09:16] Speaker 3: Well, today we have with us Carrie Ann Allman, who has amazingly put together a, a credible Facebook, Uncensored Morgellons, and has, uh, uh, thousands of people. And she gets bombarded with the ... In fact, wasn't it last week that, uh, you missed our show because you were dealing with someone who was, uh, suicidal, kind of? Is that true?

[09:42] Speaker 4: Yes. Um, well actually, um, I don't know if that's the right word, but he, um, he just g- he was letting me know he was giving up. He wasn't gonna fight it anymore, and he was having a really bad day. But today, the same guy is active in the group and telling jokes and all that. So he's fine today. (laughs)

[10:03] Speaker 3: Well, he's doing a great job.

[10:04] Speaker 4: We don't all start that fast.

[10:04] Speaker 3: You turned him around. You turned him around. That's, that's fantastic. And, uh, Morgellons can be that bad.

[10:11] Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah. Uh-huh. And, um, I would, I would like to add, Richard, I noticed that she was talking about, um, exterminating and all that. I would like to add that my brother owns the biggest, uh, environmental company in the Southeast, and I have actually gotten four members now from him redirecting them to me. He kept saying, "Carrie Ann, I don't see anything. You know, I don't ... I know something's wrong 'cause they have the same thing you do." And you're right. Um, she was talking about exterminating didn't work, and then you were talking about we need to combat them. But yeah, an exterminator would not help, um, because you'd be redirected back to the Morgellons community either way, you know?

[10:59] Speaker 3: Right. Right. Well, what, what I'd like to do, because this is our first podcast, BBC, it's kinda lay a foundation, and that is, what the heck is Morgellons? How do you know if you have Morgellons? So, you know, t- tell us what the symptoms are. What's somebody who has Morgellons, what, what do they experience?

[11:22] Speaker 4: Well, that, uh, telltale sign would be the fibers. Like, the mere existence of the fibers. Uh, but then you've got this plethora of other pathogens, microorganisms. I mean, you know, parasites, things like that. Um, I know they're starting to find these crystals with the fibers in the snow and air and food, medication. So I think the fibers, by definition ... (bell chimes) Uh-oh. I'm cut.

[12:03] Speaker 3: ... the, the fibers definitely... Mor- uh, Dr. Faberly and her book, Morgellons: The Legitimization of Disease, basically she defines that filaments and fibers that are different, they can be white, they can be red, they can be blue. I don't know about yellow. Uh, I think they're generally flor- fluorescent. They can be a different sizes. Uh, you know, I just wanna make a point that there are no two, no two Morgellon sufferers with exactly the same symptomatology. Their filaments and fibers themselves can be a different lengths and colors, sometimes microscopic to the point you can't see them, but you'll find them lint-like, cotton-like substances in your bedding and clothing without any reasonable explanation. You know, I haven't worn cashmere or wool, you know, but yet I still, I still keep finding this stuff. So, that is how she defines Morgellons. But, how about, uh, relentless itching? Is that a symptom?

[13:09] Speaker 4: Oh, yes. Um, a- as a matter of fact, I never understood the hair parasite thing. But recently, with that thunder snow stuff, I had bizarre symptoms with my fake hair, is what we call it. And, um, it's like all this energy which is like really strong static got in my face and hair. Uh-

[13:33] Speaker 3: So you, you have the static sy-

[13:34] Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I mean.

[13:35] Speaker 3: Yeah, the, the, uh, the... Now, many years I've not heard too many people, uh, uh, have that type of experience. But, uh, people sometimes re- I mean, they often report the itchiness, like it, it feels like they're sleeping on shards of glass, like they're itching from under their skin.

[13:53] Speaker 4: Yes. And the shards of glass feeling, I'm wondering, people are talking a- about finding this graphene in their lesions. I'm wondering... Or even the crystals. I mean, the crystallization, is that why they feel like glass?

[14:08] Speaker 3: Well-

[14:08] Speaker 4: I-

[14:08] Speaker 3: Let's get, you know, that, that, uh, uh, I wanna get to that in, in a f- a few moments. How about biting?

[14:14] Speaker 4: Okay.

[14:14] Speaker 3: Biting sensations where it feels like it goes to the core of your bone.

[14:19] Speaker 4: It does. It, like some... A stinger going in you like a sharp... Uh, uh, uh, well, it manifests different ways, but that's the most common for me and a lot of people. But, um, and it's always what they call nocseums. I don't... I can't explain that, because I used to keep a microscope over my whole body looking, and he, he never saw these things, you know? So again, I-

[14:47] Speaker 3: And how about-

[14:47] Speaker 4: I don't know. It's weird.

[14:48] Speaker 3: How about burning? Like, your skin is on fire, red, burning.

[14:54] Speaker 4: Yes. I have been in the ER and told them that my arm felt like hamburger meat-

[15:00] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[15:00] Speaker 4: ... and it was literally lesions on top of lesions, raw, everything. They told me to stop picking. And I've heard so many... Hundreds of people tell the same story. We do not pick. We have things coming out of our skin that protrude out, so of course you're gonna remove it, you know?

[15:21] Speaker 3: For sure.

[15:21] Speaker 4: Now some people do debride lesions, which I don't consider picking.

[15:27] Speaker 3: Now, uh, you mentioned things coming out of your skin. Okay. What kind of things can come out of your skin? Sometimes people report plastic-like barbs.

[15:38] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[15:39] Speaker 3: Uh, they could be like half-inch long. One lady actually re- reported a barb that came out of her skin that was three inches long. Took her hours-

[15:49] Speaker 4: I do have doubts-

[15:49] Speaker 3: ... to get this barb out.

[15:52] Speaker 4: Wow.

[15:52] Speaker 3: Some pe- people report, uh, I've seen pictures of... Like one lady sent me a, a, a picture of a 16-legged spider coming out of her skin. And people have-

[16:04] Speaker 4: I've seen bizarre things just like that. I mean-

[16:07] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[16:07] Speaker 4: ... every day I see many people. And over seven years in the group, I've seen thousands upon thousands of images of just what you're describing.

[16:19] Speaker 3: Waspy things coming out of their skin, gelatinous stuff coming out of the skin of various shapes and colors, and some have little eyeballs in them.

[16:28] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[16:28] Speaker 3: All kinds of stuff.

[16:29] Speaker 4: Yeah. And people are saying, "These are nanobots, and these are that, and this..." But really, we can't prove anything. That's the problem. It's like they're sneaky, you can't prove what they are.

[16:42] Speaker 3: Right.

[16:42] Speaker 4: I used to be a parasite expert, and I put my badge down because I don't know anything about these. (laughs) So...

[16:50] Speaker 3: I once... When I was initially infected, I, uh... It was the wintertime and I was wearing a, uh, top coat. And I opened up my coat, and a mite flew out.

[17:00] Speaker 4: Yes. Very common.

[17:02] Speaker 3: So there's a thing called myesi- myiasis, where mites can breed under your skin and come out like that. Myiasis. Well, now-

[17:12] Speaker 4: Fly strips are the answer for that. Uh, have fly strips in your house everywhere, they'll catch things you never even see.

[17:19] Speaker 3: Wonderful. Great, great, great idea.

[17:21] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[17:21] Speaker 3: I don't think I had that in this-

[17:22] Speaker 4: Everybody needs to hear that, honestly.

[17:24] Speaker 3: ... my book. That's a great one. Okay.

[17:25] Speaker 4: They're cheap. You have nothing to lose. (laughs)

[17:28] Speaker 3: Yeah. I have to add that to the book. That, that, that's great. Th- this is why we call this a think tank. We, we interchange, we learn from each other, and we keep getting better at beating this disease. Now, of all-

[17:41] Speaker 4: Okay.

[17:42] Speaker 3: ... these symptoms that we just mentioned, not all of them are specific to Morgellons.

[17:50] Speaker 4: Oh, wow.

[17:50] Speaker 3: For instance, the relentless itching, the biting where it feels like it goes to the core of your skin, both of those can be from an organism called Columbola.

[18:02] Speaker 4: In-

[18:03] Speaker 3: Columbola-

[18:04] Speaker 4: Okay.

[18:04] Speaker 3: Can also itch you relentlessly. You could wake up at 3:00 AM with your private parts itching like you can't believe, your nose, your everything, drive you crazy.

[18:16] Speaker 4: Your hair, your hair.

[18:19] Speaker 3: True. Biting sensations, it feels like it goes to the bone? Also Columella. Now, how about skin fungus? Skin fungus, how does that feel? Sometimes you can get a sensation like you're being bitten to the bone. Now, is it Columella? Well, there's an easy way to tell the difference. If you're dealing with Columella and you're feeling that kind of bite to the bone, that bite doesn't move. It stays right there. Whereas with skin fungus, you can feel the biting to the bone here and 10 minutes later feel it over here. It moved.

[19:04] Speaker 3: So that's how-

[19:05] Speaker 4: Different location.

[19:05] Speaker 3: ... you can tell the difference between skin fungus and Columella. And all these organisms, they're, they're a challenge. But when you know what you're dealing with, we can break it down and we can effectively deal with them. So tell us a little bit about your experience with Morgellons, how you were initially infected, how you got into this, and, and, uh, let us find out.

[19:31] Speaker 4: You know what? I think my story is so common with many people. I mean, I, I was, I was getting these lesions and I'm like, "What's going on?" And, you know, I had this little cheap handheld microscope and I was seeing weird things. You know, I was like, I kept Googling things and it kept coming back to Morgellons, Morgellons, Morgellons. And then I got in, I got in a group and, um, it, it was a lady who was kind of like, you know, telling us to post what she thought and telling us to put our pictures and comments. And, you know, we just... After a while, we got, we felt like the doctors were treating us the same way. So Melody Still and I, we made the group and went on from there. But that's another story. (laughs) But...

[20:20] Speaker 3: How, how many times were you diagnosed as having, uh, delusions of parasitosis?

[20:26] Speaker 4: You know, I've never had that on my chart.

[20:29] Speaker 3: Oh, you're lucky.

[20:30] Speaker 4: But ev- ... Yeah, every, uh, doctor or family doctor, infectious disease doctor up in the ER, I've been to dermatologists, they tell me nothing is wrong with me. (laughs)

[20:43] Speaker 3: Uh, okay, but-

[20:44] Speaker 4: And I have, I have signs of like what looked like, uh, creeping eruptions from larva migrans and, uh, I mean, obvious signs, but they just would not acknowledge anything, like gaslighting, you know?

[20:59] Speaker 3: Well, uh, one thing, one thing I, I missed or we missed when we were talking about symptoms, and you, you brought it up there, lesions.

[21:08] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[21:08] Speaker 3: You get these lesions that develop, and are they easy to heal?

[21:13] Speaker 4: No. I have had, uh... I discovered I may or may not have that, uh, disease that mosquitoes give you. And I think this made me susceptible to it. But they inject me with parasites and my lesions get deep. And I've got one from 2024 that still hasn't healed. I've got a post as proof when I posted it.

[21:35] Speaker 3: Right.

[21:35] Speaker 4: But yeah, these lesions, th- they just don't heal.

[21:39] Speaker 3: Non- non-healing lesions. Now, are non-healing-

[21:42] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[21:43] Speaker 3: ... lesions only about Morgellons? Not really. They can also happen with Columella. You can get these non-healing lesions that seem to take forever if ever they do heal. Or they-

[21:55] Speaker 4: Yes.

[21:56] Speaker 3: ... comb over a gelatinous very hard substance that you have to really tear it off. It, uh, so, so, uh, so hard to remove, so...

[22:05] Speaker 4: Richard, I thought I had very bad infection because it was so deep and it had that color, you know? And it was not infection in there. The stuff that comes out of them looks like larvae. And I've got pictures that it looks like, um, like some kind of a hel- something in the helmet family.

[22:26] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[22:27] Speaker 4: It's, uh, it's, it's weird how these mosquitoes affect me. It's bizarre.

[22:32] Speaker 3: So, so that's, that's a good question. Now, how do we, how, how do we get Morgellons? How does it enter or get to our bodies? So-

[22:42] Speaker 4: Okay. (laughs)

[22:43] Speaker 3: (coughs) Uh, bugs. Mites can bite us. Bedbugs can bite us. Mosquitoes-

[22:52] Speaker 4: Okay.

[22:52] Speaker 3: ... can bite us. Bees. Did I mention spiders?

[22:57] Speaker 4: Or, yeah, I know you said that.

[22:58] Speaker 3: All these organisms. Any, any insect or organism that is infected with the or- um, um... How does this happen? Well, you realize that these insects out there in environment, they bite other animals. So there are birds that are infected with it, there are raccoons, there are all kinds of animals and rabbits and they might get bitten that they transfer the mosquito. The mosquito bites you and you got it.

[23:25] Speaker 3: Some people find that when they fall into a rose bush-

[23:30] Speaker 4: Yes.

[23:31] Speaker 3: Rose Gardener's Disease, they come out-

[23:34] Speaker 4: Yes.

[23:34] Speaker 3: ... with Morgellons as well as, I think it's pronounced spirochaetosis, but it's called rose, Rose Gardener's Disease.

[23:40] Speaker 4: You're right. Yeah.

[23:42] Speaker 3: So there are multiple ways. How about at your local salon? Can you get Morgellons at your local salon?

[23:53] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[23:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[23:53] Speaker 4: You can get it walking outside and breathing, I think, actually. (laughs)

[23:58] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[23:58] Speaker 4: But, yeah.

[24:00] Speaker 3: Now, do you get it from chemtrails?

[24:03] Speaker 4: I believe so. I, Richard, I've had it for 11 years.And it's only been in the past couple years that I opened my mind to even that theory at all. But I'm, uh, I've seen too much evidence. Um, I didn't want to throw some whack theories out there, but, uh, I really have seen evidence in the air and everything. I mean-

[24:27] Speaker 3: Well, perhaps I can shed, uh, perhaps I can shed some light. You know, personally, I don't care where it came from. I don't care whether it came from, uh, a research lab in Plum Island, it comes with Lyme disease, you know, we haven't even talked about that. That's another conversation.

[24:42] Speaker 4: That would not help us, would it? (laughs)

[24:45] Speaker 3: I don't care whether it came from a, a research project or a, a, a war weapon that they were designing. I don't care. I know what to do about the disease, and that, that's what matters. But chemtrails-

[24:56] Speaker 4: Exactly. Yeah.

[24:58] Speaker 3: I, I've never... I have never, ever heard someone say, "Well, you know, I was outside and I saw this, uh, plane flying over and they were doing their trails and I walked inside and started itching." Never heard anybody say that.

[25:10] Speaker 4: That's a good point, Richard. (laughs) That's a very good point.

[25:15] Speaker 3: Right. But, and for years, I watched all these videos about chemtrails and Morgellons and... But, you know, it was just observation. And then I did see a video, it was produced, uh, many years ago. And the lady interviewed the past leader of HAARP, H-A-A-R-P, and you're familiar with that organization, right?

[25:44] Speaker 4: Yes. Yes, I am.

[25:45] Speaker 3: They are the chemtrail people.

[25:48] Speaker 4: Yes.

[25:48] Speaker 3: They are the people who are doing the research. And, uh, he was sharing what made sense to me, whether it's true or not, but this is before AI, so, uh, at least that's one good thing.

[26:03] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

[26:03] Speaker 3: Uh, he shared that they distribute these nanobots through the chemtrails. We breathe them in, and there's some, they have research, uh, try-, you know, trying to who knows what the hell. But-

[26:18] Speaker 4: I would have to have, uh, evidence before I would preach that. But I don't... If, if I was going to join you-

[26:24] Speaker 3: I agree with you, but this is the only thing that makes sense.

[26:28] Speaker 4: Okay.

[26:28] Speaker 3: He claims that the nanobots go haywire in some of us and make us prone to Morgellons disease, which has been around since the 1600s, but suddenly far more prevalent today-

[26:42] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[26:42] Speaker 3: ... than it was back then. So if we're looking at chemtrails, I would say that would be the direction to look into. But again, I don't give a crap where it came from.

[26:52] Speaker 4: That's the thing 'cause it doesn't help us to know where it came from. It only helps us to discover what will cure it. You know what I mean? (laughs) Or treat it.

[27:01] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Well, talk, talking about cure.

[27:04] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.

[27:04] Speaker 3: I mean, ever since the, uh, AMA, not the AMA, the CDC did their study, uh, a Kaiser Institute in California between 2008 and 2012, they had, I don't know, how many participants? Uh, are you familiar with that study? It was less than 50 participants.

[27:23] Speaker 4: I am.

[27:24] Speaker 3: All self-diagnosed, as I understand. And in retrospect and looking back, when we now know how to define Morgellons, with filaments and fibers, uh, it said that none of them actually had Morgellons disease. They based the study on people who didn't have Morgellons disease-

[27:44] Speaker 4: Yep.

[27:44] Speaker 3: ... to come up with the realization that there is no Morgellons disease, and that it's all stress-related.

[27:52] Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We're talking about the wrong guys here, though. I think I like your approach because, like, you have revised editions of your books, you keep them updated. And, um, I, to me, as far as I'm concerned, that's the only research we have mov- moving forward. You see people accepting money as donations for Morgellons, but you never see that money go to a research. And I'm, I'm looking into where that money goes, but I don't know. I really don't.

[28:21] Speaker 3: I have. Well, Dr. Mi- uh, Mary Anne Mittelbein, I guess, is the leading researcher at the, uh, Morgellons, uh, Association. Uh, and they've published several research, uh, studies on the, uh, Charles Folman Association, and they have, in my understanding, uh, probably maybe eight or ten, uh, LL.M.Ds, Lyme literate, uh, medical doctors, such as Dr. Savley, Dr. Cornish, Dr. Bransfield, to name three of them that I'm familiar with, uh, that have been treating Morgellons very much like Lyme disease, with the belief that Lyme disease is a part of Morgellon somehow, uh, which, in my experience, I've been dealing with this since 2000, 2000. Uh, in fact, uh, I'll just briefly give you my experience. I, in the, uh, around 1993, I was pulling a vine from a tree in my backyard and a cloud of dust descended upon me, I went inside, I showered, and thought nothing of it.

[29:38] Speaker 3: Uh, four days later, to the very minute, both my significant other and myself started itching like hell while we were visiting my mother. Uh, we jumped... The only relief we could think of would be to jump in a hot bathtub. We knew we needed to clean up something off of us. And that started my, uh, hell of, uh, about four years. And, well, the end result was, uh, mites. So I'm looking, "What the heck is it?" So I looked... The doctors had no answers.... uh, she was a critical care nurse. She knew all the dermatologists, who were the best ones. She went, they had no answer. Uh, I went to doctors, biopsies and so forth, no answers, no diagnosis.

[30:25] Speaker 3: So I was looking-

[30:26] Speaker 4: Terminator had no answer. (laughs) Yeah.

[30:29] Speaker 3: I had some bites. But in retrospect, around 2006 when I wrote the first book, Soothing the Itch Within and a Diet to Control It, I realized there was a thing called Columbola, and learned ... So, my first experience was with mites and Columbola. And I discovered the diet, it worked for me, it worked for many other people as well. And then around 2014, along came Morgellons, uh, in my life. And the amazing thing is, is that the same diet worked, and I knew what it was, and it never became more than a blip in my life, but I had the experience of also dealing with Morgellons. So the benefit for me, because, uh, I mentioned questionnaire before, like for instance, 90% of the questionnaires that I evaluate, the people are suffering from both Morgellons and Columbola at the same time, and mites. So, it's hard to, for them to know what the difference is in the symptomatology.

[31:40] Speaker 3: Whereas, because I came from the paths that I did, and of course Lyme disease was mixed in there as well in my life, uh, and I beat it. But I'm able to know from basic questions whether or not the person's dealing with Morgellons, Columbola, mites, and even Strongyloides Sarcoptalis.

[32:03] Speaker 4: Strongyloides.

[32:03] Speaker 3: I also dealt with that as well. So, I've had them all and have come out the other end, and at least I have the ability to know what is what, as opposed to most people that I work with, they are all hodgepodged together. But we can separate them.

[32:22] Speaker 4: And that's valuable, Richard, in the community. Th- that's important to know. Very.

[32:28] Speaker 3: Very important. Very important. And, and-

[32:31] Speaker 4: Probably the most important thing that you know, actually. Yes.

[32:35] Speaker 3: And I look at all the experts. I spoke with a doctor in, uh, Europe, and this was, oh, maybe eight, nine years ago, and he believed that Morgellons was helminths. I didn't even know what the damn word meant. (laughs)

[32:52] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[32:52] Speaker 3: You know? I had to go to the dictionary. Worms. Okay.

[32:55] Speaker 4: We've worried about worms before since we were kids with pinworms or something, but I never had them. Yeah. (laughs)

[33:01] Speaker 3: So he thought, he thought Morgellons was some kind of worm. All right. Well, so then I put that into my bucket. All right. And then, uh, of course along comes, uh, the Morgellons Foundation, and they're talking about Lyme disease, so those experts think it's spirochetal. In fact, there's, uh, a fellow, I forget his name, in Europe who's got many followers, a big website, and he believes, like there are 30 different species of spirochetes, and yes, uh, it's related with ... So everybody has their pets.

[33:36] Speaker 3: Here we-

[33:37] Speaker 4: That's why the groups need to come together, all of them on one platform, put differences aside, and, and come together as one big voice and share only what we all can prove from our own theories. And-

[33:51] Speaker 3: Well, everybody's pigeonholed. Everybody's pigeonholed. And then we have-

[33:55] Speaker 4: But the thing with that to the side though, you know what I mean? Like ...

[34:00] Speaker 3: Ha- Have you seen Hans? I forget his last name. His, his videos, Hans, uh, you-

[34:04] Speaker 4: Yeah. Harold. Harold.

[34:06] Speaker 3: Harold. Harold.

[34:06] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[34:07] Speaker 3: Harold Ha-

[34:08] Speaker 4: He's onto something there. I, I, don't-

[34:11] Speaker 3: Fungus. Fungus.

[34:11] Speaker 4: I think it's going his way. (laughs)

[34:14] Speaker 3: It's fungi. Now, of all of them that I've looked at and studied, his makes the most sense. Although-

[34:22] Speaker 4: It does. It does.

[34:22] Speaker 3: ... he's very dry, you know, to, what did you say, you know? Uh, you know, you-

[34:27] Speaker 4: You, you may or may not need a dictionary, depending. I'm struggling with a criminal justice degree, so sometimes I'll get a dictionary out, to be honest, but it's okay.

[34:37] Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. I always do, you know.

[34:39] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[34:39] Speaker 3: Eh, eh, I'm 79 years of age, and I might forget a word and go back and have to check it out, but anyway.

[34:44] Speaker 4: Thank you. I'm not young either. (laughs)

[34:46] Speaker 3: But, but his, his theory makes the most different, most sense to me, that it is fungal-related.

[34:53] Speaker 4: Yes. It does.

[34:54] Speaker 3: And since 2006, I've been rec... You know, I went to a, an, a iridologist, oh, back around 2000, and yes, I had, uh, she found that, and she, she recommended wormwood and, uh, black walnut. You've heard of those?

[35:13] Speaker 4: Yeah. That's actually good advice, I think, in my, in my experiences anyway. Yeah.

[35:20] Speaker 3: My symptoms got worse.

[35:22] Speaker 4: No way.

[35:23] Speaker 3: Why did they get worse?

[35:24] Speaker 4: Okay. Because it was only treating part, part of the parasites?

[35:28] Speaker 3: No. Why do you think it got worse?

[35:28] Speaker 4: And maybe others navigating around?

[35:31] Speaker 3: Columbola lives outside. They destroy organic matter. That's their job. You know? If it weren't for Columbola, our world would be full of leaves up to this high. You know? They get rid of all that organic mess. They-

[35:44] Speaker 4: Columbola eat, yeah.

[35:46] Speaker 3: They eat black walnut. They eat, they lo-... That's their food source.

[35:50] Speaker 4: Oh. I was thinking parasites only, but you're right. You're exactly right. Wow.

[35:56] Speaker 3: While you're trying to get rid of worms, which is very great, and if you only had Morgellons, that'll work, but if you're dealing with Columbola, things get worse.

[36:04] Speaker 4: That goes back to what I'm saying. What you know, the most important thing you know, is how to differentiate the different things and how they affect you.

[36:15] Speaker 3: And for me-

[36:16] Speaker 4: Yes.

[36:16] Speaker 3: ... specifically, that's because I experienced them all at different times, not at the same-

[36:20] Speaker 4: And that's a good thing. Yes, Richard. I love your knowledge, I really do.

[36:28] Speaker 3: So, the idea, my feeling, and I've repeated this many times, it's like a chess board. Morgellons is like the king on a chess board. The most important piece, but not the most powerful. The queen, the rook, the bishop, the pawn can take the king.

[36:55] Speaker 4: Yes.

[36:56] Speaker 3: You know?

[36:56] Speaker 4: Yes.

[36:57] Speaker 3: So, for each of us, whether it's Rose Gardener's Disease, or Lyme Disease, or worms, or tapeworms, or Strongyloides auriculans, or Columbola, or mites, they all go, they're the pieces of the puzzle. Defeat them ... You know, one guy wrote me and, uh, he said, "Richard, you don't know what you're talking about. I went to the doctor. He diagnosed me with Pseudomonas." That's a simple bacterial infection of the skin. It can become a problem if your immune system is down.

[37:37] Speaker 4: Kind of like how ours is, yeah.

[37:39] Speaker 3: He said, "I took that. I took the medication, Morgellons left." He only demonstrated what I said. Pseudomonas was his queen.

[37:49] Speaker 4: Richard, what if, uh, Morgellons is the king, but we're the other pieces, we're the pawns and everything, and we are stronger? You understand what I'm saying?

[38:04] Speaker 3: Well-

[38:04] Speaker 4: It's, it's all of us in numbers, you know?

[38:08] Speaker 3: It, it helps, you know, this is why when I look at my protocol, uh, there's a Dr. Jay Davidson here in New Jersey, uh, and I watched one of his videos. He claims that if you have a heartbeat, you've got worms. Now, I know basically every parasitologist will say that 80 to 9- 90% of us all have worms. Uh-

[38:42] Speaker 4: It's reported in autopsies about, last I heard it was 80%. That has probably gone up because they've discovered more species. But, yeah, I would say that's very accurate, Richard, to be honest with you, in my opinion.

[38:57] Speaker 3: Now, he says, and I go by what he says, it makes sense, before you treat any disease, get rid of the worms.

[39:07] Speaker 4: Yes, because I believe that the parasites cause most diseases, so that makes sense. Yeah.

[39:13] Speaker 3: Oh, there's even a connection between cancer and parasites and worms that, that I-

[39:19] Speaker 4: Yes.

[39:19] Speaker 3: ... read about. So, he says-

[39:21] Speaker 4: Yes.

[39:21] Speaker 3: ... get rid of all the worms. From my experience-

[39:23] Speaker 4: See, that's another rabbit hole. They're endless, they're everywhere, but they're good to go down 'cause you learn, you just can't stay in them. You know? (laughs)

[39:32] Speaker 3: Yeah. No, now, the thing about worms is they can, they can be intestinal, and then it, you know, I've, I've been floating along in this level of ignorance up until about four years ago when I looked at the, the biome of the gut. And-

[39:49] Speaker 4: Right.

[39:49] Speaker 3: ... uh, people with poor digestive systems, bloating, they are highly likely to experience leaky gut syndrome. So the worms get out-

[39:59] Speaker 4: Yeah, that's because of the parasite trash.

[40:01] Speaker 3: ... into the bloodstream, into the joints, into the skin, the rashes, uh, all that. Also, then if you look at, uh, if you, you know, if you go to a public bathroom, and you open a door, and the person before had worms and their hands weren't clean, and you can pick up worms that way. So it doesn't even have to be in the gut-

[40:25] Speaker 4: Like, you can get worms, which would be the most common in that area, yes. But people need to understand, when you treat parasites and do a cleanse, you can't attack half your parasites. You need a full, detailed parasite cleanse to attack all of them.

[40:42] Speaker 3: Exactly, yeah.

[40:43] Speaker 4: And you need a binder, or you're gonna get very sick. There's, there are too many people who do not understand that process. (laughs) And if you get a library, I don't know.

[40:53] Speaker 3: I, I don't know.

[40:53] Speaker 4: I'm, I'm not an expert, but you know.

[40:58] Speaker 3: So, the, now, you can live with these worms in your body, you can live with Lyme Disease in your body for years, as it being dormant. A lot of times we're going-

[41:10] Speaker 4: Until they do your ****** and you're dead, and then they find out, wow, uh, those arteries were clogged and they had a heart attack.

[41:19] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[41:19] Speaker 4: We're gonna put heart disease on the death certificate.

[41:22] Speaker 3: Or, along comes Morgellons-

[41:24] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[41:24] Speaker 3: ... and they suddenly become an issue. They become your queen-

[41:27] Speaker 4: Exactly.

[41:27] Speaker 3: ... they become rook, they become your bishop, and they become part of the problem.

[41:32] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[41:33] Speaker 3: Now, I've gone one step further. Since 2006, uh, one of my people wrote in, who was dealing with Columbola, and he wrote in, "I started taking Lefiniron and I'm much better. I've gotten well." So I looked into Lefiniron.

[41:51] Speaker 4: Wow.

[41:53] Speaker 3: Now, instead of wormwood... No, yeah, well, no, I'm sorry. So Lefiniron is a pet medication-

[42:03] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[42:03] Speaker 3: ... that breaks down, that inhibits the production of chitin. Chitin is the, if you look at a brick wall, the mortar that holds the wall together is the chitin. So if you get rid of all that chitin, the wall falls over. So this is Candida albicans.Now, again, you can live with Candida-

[42:27] Speaker 4: Albicans. Okay. I know what you're talking about. It's been a while. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead.

[42:33] Speaker 3: So again, you can live with Candida albicans for years, and along comes Morgellons, boom. Or if you have leaky gut, it gets into your bloodstream, into your organs, and according to one of the people we work with, Dr. Luna, who has a cancer clinic in Mexico, who supplies us, our people, uh, with the Lefron, it turns into a dangerous hydra form of, uh, a fungal infection. So, we go after the worms with starter dose of ivermectin and Fenben, then we go after the fungus with Lefaron.

[43:15] Speaker 4: There you go.

[43:17] Speaker 3: Boom, boom.

[43:17] Speaker 4: Y- okay. You're, you're going multi-dimensional, you're going aggressive, and you're thorough with the parasites.

[43:27] Speaker 3: Ge- get rid of the-

[43:27] Speaker 4: See, that's what people don't understand-

[43:29] Speaker 3: ... get, get rid of the-

[43:29] Speaker 4: ... is multi-dimensional, you know?

[43:31] Speaker 3: Get rid of the co-factors.

[43:32] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[43:33] Speaker 3: Get rid of the variables. Now, they're not the only variables, there are many variables, but they're the most predominant variables-

[43:40] Speaker 4: Right.

[43:40] Speaker 3: ... are the ones we want to go after. And then there are many people who are dealing with mites. I don't know if there are books about mites out there. And I, I've written my own book, they live under the skin. Of course, if you talk to every epidemiologist in the world, if you talk to every expert about insects in the world, they will tell you-

[43:58] Speaker 4: We don't have mites.

[43:59] Speaker 3: ... that mites cannot live in your skin. They will tell you that-

[44:01] Speaker 4: They-

[44:01] Speaker 3: ... Coloboma can't live there either.

[44:04] Speaker 4: Yes, Rich, I have been gaslit with mites. I don't have them now, but I know when I do and I don't, but I did have them at one time. They gaslight you. They will not look at any pictures. They will not look at any solid evidence of burrows.

[44:20] Speaker 3: They-

[44:20] Speaker 4: I had connect those dots on my skin, very obvious.

[44:23] Speaker 3: Well, they recognize scabies.

[44:25] Speaker 4: They definitely thought it was a fungus.

[44:27] Speaker 3: And, and oftentimes, Morgellons is misdiagnosed as scabies or even MRSA, but, uh-

[44:32] Speaker 4: Yeah. And sometimes that's the case, but then it evolves, and that's no longer the case with a lot of people. It's like, and they still think they have mites or something. But all these crawling sensations, it's not from bugs most of the time recently. Um, I don't know if it's energy in our bodies or the fibers, that graphene I mentioned. I mean, we're all confused. It's like, I think if we all-

[45:00] Speaker 3: I know.

[45:00] Speaker 4: ... put our brains together, we'd figure it out.

[45:03] Speaker 3: It, it's a hodgepodge. And-

[45:05] Speaker 4: It is hard.

[45:06] Speaker 3: ... because of my, uh, past experience of not dealing with them all at once, I'm in a position to have diag- di- uh, let's see, what do you call it? Uh, uh, taking them apart and assimilating them so they make a lot of sense, and we can figure them out together.

[45:24] Speaker 4: You know what, Richard? You, you, you're worth your weight in gold. Uh, you understand the different dimensions here of it, and you, you're attacking every one. And, um, people don't understand that it's not just bacterial, or fungal, or parasites, or these fiber... It's, it's all of it, you know?

[45:45] Speaker 3: It's all of it, because like-

[45:46] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[45:46] Speaker 3: ... people with mites, 90% of the people who are dealing with Morgellons are also dealing with mite infections. I did myself.

[45:53] Speaker 4: Yes.

[45:54] Speaker 3: For me, they were not a big deal. But for some people, they are paramount. And that's where there's another medication-

[46:01] Speaker 4: People get everybody with eczema and dust mites. I don't care who you are. Everybody has those two.

[46:08] Speaker 3: Definitely.

[46:08] Speaker 4: I don't know about others, but cutaneous, I believe many.

[46:13] Speaker 3: Yes. And, uh, generally the dust mites are the, it's, it's a, uh, an allergy to the poop of the mites that, that is often the problem, uh, or something else.

[46:24] Speaker 4: You want me to tell you a real quick story? Um, I have a friend who said that she had symptoms just like mine. She thought she had something weird, kind of like a, you know, I have Morgellons. She went to a research hospital. The doctor she saw looked at her and she said, "That's a dust mite allergy." She was treated and had no more symptoms since.

[46:48] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[46:50] Speaker 4: And, but that's just one case. I know she didn't have Morgellons-

[46:53] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[46:53] Speaker 4: ... but I'm just saying somebody might be confused thinking they do somewhere. Who knows?

[46:57] Speaker 3: Of course. Uh, uh, yeah, it's easy to jump to conclusions when you have so m- when there's so much misfi- misinformation out there. And-

[47:06] Speaker 4: There is. A- and that should be addressed on another day, but that is a very important topic. It really is. Um-

[47:14] Speaker 3: Very.

[47:14] Speaker 4: ... I've got a couple of members who are messed up right now from some bad information that was given. I won't go into detail, but there's a lot of safety measures I keep in place, and that's the only thing I'm real strict about. But there's a lot of things that go around that, you know, need to be addressed, you know, like different ******* like the tobacco we were talking about. Um, you know, internally, I don't think it's good or effective, like you said.

[47:40] Speaker 3: Well, it seems everything... There's a cycle. You, you go through the tobacco thing, and three months from now it'll be, uh, something else. And then three months from then-

[47:49] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[47:49] Speaker 3: ... it'll be something else. They're always looking for one thing, but no one thing is going to do it. Now, like with the tobacco I shared with you earlier, gosh, I tested that many, many years ago. The-

[48:02] Speaker 4: You did.

[48:02] Speaker 3: ... idea that nicotine is an anti-parasitic, so I thought, well, I didn't want to start smoking, but I got the nicotine patches.

[48:11] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[48:11] Speaker 3: So I did the nicotine patches day after day after day after day for a month lo- month's on end. No big difference. And I did learn one thing. When I stopped putting on the nicotine patches, I didn't have any withdrawal symptoms. So-

[48:24] Speaker 4: Ah.

[48:24] Speaker 3: ... in my opinion, you don't get addicted to nicotine. There's something else in those cigarettes that you get addicted to, but it's not the nicotine.

[48:32] Speaker 4: That's my concern, is, uh, uh, I hear, uh, many members talk about they started vaping or smoking cigarettes or doing nicotine patches, and they never used tobacco. But it, but I've seen two videos where they did put tobacco on their face, and those white plug larvae-looking things did come out, and I was impressed myself. But like you said, it'd be the next thing or something. But I'm just saying, using it is probably best, you know, topically.

[49:00] Speaker 3: Well, yeah.

[49:00] Speaker 4: So-

[49:00] Speaker 3: Like I said earlier, you can do that and get all the stuff out, but unless you know how to stop it breeding, it's gonna be 20 years and you're gonna keep doing it and getting stuff out.

[49:11] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

[49:12] Speaker 3: It's never gonna end. Never gonna end. So yeah, great-

[49:15] Speaker 4: I could experiment with like, acid with it too, or something?

[49:18] Speaker 3: ... but, but-

[49:19] Speaker 4: But I mean, I w- I am gonna try to get the white plugs out of my face, 'cause I saw 'em, but I'm not ... Is it gonna be a cure for me? No. Nothing is, you know? (laughs) I wish I was super.

[49:29] Speaker 3: I, yeah, I did, I did a little re- I did a little research, uh, you know, I have a, a fairly extensive mailing list. And this is about 20 years ago. And I wanted to see if there was a connection between people having parasites and whether or not they smoked. So I sent out an email and asked them-

[49:49] Speaker 4: Should, maybe look at pro- Yeah.

[49:50] Speaker 3: ... and I asked them, "Are you a smoker? Are you not a smoker?" And the, the responses started coming in, and they were not a smoker, they were not a smoker. And I thought, "Hmm, this is interesting. Only the smokers get parasites." So about two and a half weeks later, then the smokers started sending in their answers. They got paras- All I learned was people who smoke are prospi- uh, uh, prosi- uh, what's the, what's the word I'm looking at? They put things off.

[50:24] Speaker 4: Pre- pro- pre-

[50:24] Speaker 3: They put things off.

[50:24] Speaker 4: Oh, procrastination.

[50:26] Speaker 3: Procrastinators. Yeah. That's all I learned.

[50:28] Speaker 4: I believe that is the same thing with, uh, THC. I think it kinda is like a downing thing, and it, it makes you procrastinate. Yeah, I think so.

[50:37] Speaker 3: (laughs) Yeah, must be.

[50:38] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[50:38] Speaker 3: So (laughs) there's no connection between whether you smoke and have parasites or whether you don't smoke and have parasites.

[50:44] Speaker 4: No, but I told you-

[50:45] Speaker 3: It's bullshit.

[50:46] Speaker 4: ... I've been trying to quit for years, Richard, and if nicotine helped, I would've never gotten Morgellons.

[50:54] Speaker 3: (laughs) Does that ... (laughs) Yeah.

[50:57] Speaker 4: But if I kept tobacco on, on the face-

[50:59] Speaker 3: But it would've taken-

[51:01] Speaker 4: ... plane and the pods were coming-

[51:01] Speaker 3: ... you three weeks to answer my question.

[51:03] Speaker 4: ... out my fucking face.

[51:04] Speaker 3: But it would've taken you three weeks to answer my question. (laughs)

[51:07] Speaker 4: What was it? (laughs)

[51:09] Speaker 3: Oh, do you smoke or not smoke? (laughs)

[51:12] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. I s- I smoke, and I've been trying to quit. I just... That's why I don't want people picking up vapes, cigarettes, nicotine patches. They've never been proven effective, and you do not want that addiction. It's compared to being addicted to heroin. I've never been on heroin, but I believe it.

[51:33] Speaker 3: Uh, yeah.

[51:34] Speaker 4: Why can people quit heroin but they can't quit smoking? That's just-

[51:37] Speaker 3: Being afraid, of course. Absolutely. So all these rabbit holes are on Facebook, you know? Like, even, uh, somebody mentioned turpentine. Consuming turpentine.

[51:45] Speaker 4: Oh, no. No, no, no. (laughs)

[51:49] Speaker 3: Whoa.

[51:50] Speaker 4: That's why I keep out of the group, for that reason.

[51:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[51:53] Speaker 4: And once they leave, uh, me and Melody's group, like, we can't help what happens, but stuff like that, like, if I see it on a post, it's like, "No, that's bad." I mean-

[52:04] Speaker 3: That must be a real challenge for you, to go through all those posts and to decide whether or not it's a ... You know, I, I understand, uh, in your position, you don't want to be promoting rabbit holes, 'cause everybody says, "Well, I did this and it worked."

[52:17] Speaker 4: Uh oh.

[52:17] Speaker 3: And of course, you know, no one thing works.

[52:20] Speaker 4: I highly recommend to put a microscope down, because I'm severely underweight because of one, and it, I'm telling you, it's so unhealthy. Unless you've got a strong mind, and you're one of those on the, the front lines that are really digging on research, I would, I would really moderate, uh, uh, seriously. That is a big warning from me to everybody.

[52:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, I, I, I hate to have to th- be the moderator, and, ugh. I would drive home nuts. Uh, my hat goes off to you.

[52:52] Speaker 4: Well, they're interesting. Some of them are interesting, some of them are ... They're all very nice, though. I mean, they really are. They obviously-

[52:59] Speaker 3: Everybody's looking for help, and I understand that, yeah.

[53:02] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. I would encourage anybody to get on a platform where they feel like people can relate, and there's a lot of people where you get alternatives. You might like somebody's advice, but maybe somebody relates to your case more.

[53:17] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[53:17] Speaker 4: I mean, you've got options. You're a great option in the group. You've got your book. You know, you've got-

[53:24] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[53:24] Speaker 4: ... your diet. They've got that source.

[53:28] Speaker 3: I do have to plug this book. (laughs) It's, uh-

[53:31] Speaker 4: You need to do that today, because you've been putting up comments. You need to put a pretty post up.

[53:37] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[53:37] Speaker 4: Yeah, take a picture of that cover. It's gorgeous.

[53:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, it, here it is. It's, uh, you know-

[53:43] Speaker 4: What's the year? Is it 2023 revised?

[53:46] Speaker 3: Oh, God. Uh, it's the 13th revision. In fact, this is like the third revision of the, of the 13th revision. I keep learning and learning and learning.

[53:53] Speaker 4: Get updated.

[53:55] Speaker 3: Page after page.

[53:55] Speaker 4: And they need that.

[53:57] Speaker 3: Uh, so, and, and, uh, please, if anybody wants to learn anything about Morgellons-

[54:04] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[54:04] Speaker 3: ... go to the library. And the best library unfortunately right now is Amazon, and I'm not a big, big fan of, uh, Bezos, but, uh, that's where the library-

[54:14] Speaker 4: They've got your book right there. I mean, they've got your free audiobook. That's a great start. They can go-

[54:20] Speaker 3: Well-

[54:20] Speaker 4: ... with other books that can add to what you knew. I mean-

[54:24] Speaker 3: Don't, don't take my word for it. Just look at all the reviews. You know-

[54:29] Speaker 4: I saw your reviews. That's why I beli- Well, also, I saw your book too, but-Yeah, you've got great reviews, and, um,

[54:37] Speaker 3: Two hun ... Over 260 four-and-five-star reviews.

[54:40] Speaker 4: I, I can see that.

[54:40] Speaker 3: There's no other book; I mean, some books have four reviews, (laughs) of four stars.

[54:45] Speaker 4: Yeah. (laughs)

[54:46] Speaker 3: So... It, it tells you that-

[54:48] Speaker 4: It's because there's been research behind it, and you've got personal... You know, there is no- nobody with a medical degree that could take the experience of just my 11 years of having this. I couldn't imagine your decade. Because no doctor will understand us. Th- they're not gonna see the things we see as being real. They're gonna find an alternate explanation.

[55:14] Speaker 3: Well, ha-have you ever seen or heard somebody claim that filaments move, that they, filaments actually move?

[55:21] Speaker 4: I've seen the ones that they're talking about moving, and I've tested that without static or air movement around. I've put it in a controlled setting.

[55:30] Speaker 3: Well-

[55:31] Speaker 4: And s- some of them do appear to move. It's bizarre.

[55:34] Speaker 3: There is another Facebook group led by a guy, and I won't mention his name, but-

[55:39] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[55:39] Speaker 3: ... he basically says, "If you think filaments move, you're crazy."

[55:44] Speaker 4: I know. I know. And I tried to reach out so we could all like come together, and that's one that I just-

[55:51] Speaker 3: He-

[55:51] Speaker 4: You know, y- you can't tell members how to think and how to feel on what they went through. Because everybody's different, you know?

[55:58] Speaker 3: Th- Yeah. And i- it, you know-

[56:01] Speaker 4: But that's not healthy.

[56:02] Speaker 3: ... I've never, I've never invalidated anybody. You know, for years people would write to me and say, "You know, these organisms actually get into my food." "What do you mean?" "Well, when I open up the canned food, they're in there." And I'm thinking, "Is this person crazy?" But I would never say-

[56:19] Speaker 4: Because they know. They've seen these fibers. They know what they look like. It's bizarre. It's like once you know what they look like, I don't know e- ev- most people's experience, but a lot of people, it's like they just see them and know. It's, it's like my fake hair that I've got. It's like, uh, uh, I can see my head from a distance, and I can see where the fake hairs are. It's bizarre.

[56:46] Speaker 3: So, I would never invalidate anybody. And after I got about four or five people telling me this, then I started looking into it. And it turns out there are organisms, that whether it's a secretion of an enzyme or whatever it is, that actually can eat through cans and into wood and into ceramics. It's a real organism. An-

[57:08] Speaker 4: Send me info on that. I want to dig into that. Give me a link.

[57:13] Speaker 3: I mean that, th- and, and actually there's a website that says, "Morgellons is a concrete-eating organism." Eating concrete.

[57:22] Speaker 4: I have seen trails in my basement. We've got a concrete floor, and I had my roommate get down and look with a handheld microscope, and saw the trails in my concrete. I w... I don't even bring that up 'cause people will think I'm crazy, even a Morgellons. (laughs)

[57:40] Speaker 3: Right. But, but, uh, a- after you hear a few of these, uh, I never invalidate anybody's experience.

[57:46] Speaker 4: Oh, I know you don't. You hadn't. I know you don't. (laughs)

[57:50] Speaker 3: Uh, Sherry, you wanted to share something? You had your finger up earlier. We got, uh, a minute and 17 seconds.

[57:57] Speaker 5: Yeah. I, I actually did. I wanted to find out, Carrie, what other platforms do you use, or is it solely Facebook? Do you have any other way that people are able to reach out to you? And how do you plan on collaborating with Richard to see if we can have a bigger audience so that we can help more people with their lives?

[58:17] Speaker 4: Um, I want to merge, okay, with the Morgellon Uncensored name, which is, you know, my, my intellectual property, I guess. But it's also Melody's still, 'cause she was with me when... I just pushed the button to make it, but we left this group together. Where we were being told, what we could ... but, we were basically being treated the same way the doctors were treating us. And you're like, "No." I think that's why everybody kind of gravitated toward that group, because you weren't treated the same. But I want us to merge and create a bigger voice for advocacy.

[58:53] Speaker 3: That would be fantastic.

[58:54] Speaker 4: Not to get mistreated again.

[58:55] Speaker 3: Now, unfortunately, we're down to, we're down to 10 seconds, so we have to wrap it up. And I want to thank you-

[59:01] Speaker 4: Oh, go ahead.

[59:01] Speaker 3: ... Carri... I want to thank you, Carrianne, and I hope, uh, and R-

[59:04] Speaker 4: Thank you.

[59:05] Speaker 3: ... my co-host Robin, she wanted to mention something, we'll do that in the next segment. Have a great day. This concludes this portion of the program.