[00:01] Speaker 1: Are you ready for new dimensions and countless possibilities today and for the future? It's an exciting new time and the answers are out there. So join Mary Jane Pop as she explores the unique and unusual for a better life on Pop Talk, in search for the truth. And here she is, Mary Jane Pop.

[00:23] Speaker 2: And welcome to Pop Talk. Hey, this hour's gonna be all about you and how you can do better, uh, maybe attitude, and also health. You know, that all has to do with it. You gotta put the whole picture together. So, let's get started with some good stuff to, um, (smacks lips) ah, maybe you wanna have the attitude of, "I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna do it." Well, let's find out how.

[00:50] Speaker 3: I believe there are debts that we can never repay. And I believe there are some words that we can never unsay. And I don't know a single soul. Who didn't get lost along the way. I believe in something-

[01:15] Speaker 2: Well, of course you believe, but have you ever heard the saying, "Less is more"? Well, that's what Carla Andrassy says, and she is, uh, im- in promotion, and she said she, you, you gotta stop trying. That's it. The life-transforming power of trying less and doing more is what she talks about. So, is trying just an illusion for doing? Uh, well, Carla wants you to stop spinning your wheels. Uh, she's helped bring hit songs to life for icons like this. Uh, w- this, this is an unbelievable list, and more, uh, Barbra Streisand, Cher, Maria Carey, uh, Christina Aguilera, and now it's our turn, yours and mine. Hi, Carla. How are you?

[02:03] Speaker 4: Hello. I'm doing so great. Thanks for having me on.

[02:07] Speaker 2: Absolutely. Okay, now, here's my question, though. If I try... I know you say stop trying, but if I try and do and can see the done, so why should I stop trying?

[02:22] Speaker 4: Okay. So you just said a whole bunch of things in that one, if I try and do.

[02:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[02:28] Speaker 4: So I... My whole thing is that a lot of times, we just stop short of the trying.

[02:35] Speaker 2: Oh.

[02:35] Speaker 4: We walk around and say, "I'm trying to do this. I'm trying to diet, trying to lose weight, trying to have a better relationship," like all these things we're trying to do. "I'm trying to clean out the garage," okay? And we fool ourselves into thinking we're actually doing them, but what we're really doing is we're making all the lists, we're talking about all the stuff we're trying to do, but we're not taking the definitive action, which is the do part.

[03:05] Speaker 2: Oh, okay.

[03:06] Speaker 4: And-

[03:06] Speaker 2: Okay.

[03:06] Speaker 4: ... we fool ourselves, yeah.

[03:07] Speaker 2: All right. No, that, that makes sense, but y- don't you have to try before you do? Like, you know the old saying, "Walk before you run"?

[03:16] Speaker 4: No. I think the trying is what... Okay. The minute you say you are trying to do anything-

[03:23] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[03:23] Speaker 4: ... you're building into that intention the potential for failure. For example, look, I'm gonna try to do it. It may not happen, right? It may happen and it might not happen. Because when you say you're gonna try, you can say, "Well, it didn't work," you know, and you throw an excuse at it. "Well, it didn't work because whatever." Or you can blame somebody. "It didn't happen. I tried, but they prevented me." And when you say you're gonna try, it... there's no accountability. "Well, look, I said I would try to do it. It didn't happen. Whatever." It's a different story when you say you're gonna do something. And believe it or not, you know, our brain is listening to what we tell it. So yeah, when you tell your brain, when you say, "I'm gonna..." We'll just use losing weight, 'cause it's such a big common thing, right?

[04:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[04:14] Speaker 4: When you tell your brain, "I'm gonna try to lose weight," it kinda says, "Okay, you may not. You may do it. You're allowed to cheat because you're only trying, and it's a very half-hearted attempt or an effort to do something."

[04:28] Speaker 2: Okay.

[04:28] Speaker 4: But when you, when you, when you flip that, and you get rid of the try, and you say, "I am losing weight," now your brain flips into a whole nother direction, and it takes a different action. It goes-

[04:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, but what if, what if you do-

[04:43] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[04:43] Speaker 2: ... and it doesn't get done, or it doesn't, you know, uh, you don't achieve the accomplishment that you wanted to a- achieve? Doesn't that cause some, some, you know, anxiety? (laughs) You know? I tried-

[04:54] Speaker 4: Okay.

[04:55] Speaker 2: ... I did it.

[04:55] Speaker 4: To sit still, yes.

[04:56] Speaker 2: I did it. I... But I didn't do it, (laughs) 'cause it didn't happen.

[05:00] Speaker 4: (laughs) That's a fair question. So here's what I say to that. Just because you don't try to do whatever it is, it doesn't guarantee its success. But by not trying, you will guarantee yourself better, better chance at having it come true when you begin something with a strong doing mindset than the half-hearted trying, okay? You know the universe gets in the way sometimes? Like, just because you say, "I'm not gonna try to get to the airport on time for my flight. I'm gonna get there," it doesn't mean your flight's guaranteed to take off. But if you're not sitting in that seat at the right time, at the, at the gate, you're not gonna make your flight. Which, you know, brings up an interesting thing. We, um, we already know this, that the trying thing doesn't really work, doesn't guarantee you anything, but it gives you a better chance. When you go to the store, you're not gonna look for the aspirin bottle that says-...

[05:58] Speaker 4: "We try to relieve your headaches faster, you know, and better than anyone." Uh, no. It's, it's, "We do relieve your headaches." No one says try.

[06:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, but sometimes they lie to us. (laughs) And so...

[06:07] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. They do, but you wouldn't put your money in a bank, right? That says, "Look, we're gonna try to keep track of your money."

[06:14] Speaker 2: Oh, okay. (laughs)

[06:14] Speaker 4: "And we're gonna try to give, have it available to you when you want it."

[06:18] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[06:18] Speaker 4: You, you wouldn't accept try there, right?

[06:20] Speaker 2: No.

[06:21] Speaker 4: You want to know that it's gonna happen, and, um, you wanna give yourself the best odds of that happening.

[06:27] Speaker 2: Okay.

[06:27] Speaker 4: And I feel like, you know, I, I have seen people, and it makes me so sad when they walk around for a lifetime saying, "Well, I'm trying to write my book." Or, "I'm trying to lower my, you know, blood pressure." You know? "I'm trying to have a better relationship with my sister or my mom." And, you know, what that sounds like to me is someone who's not really giving a, a full effort. And...

[06:54] Speaker 2: Isn't that just procrastination?

[06:57] Speaker 4: 100%. That's one of the reasons we try-

[06:59] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[06:59] Speaker 4: ... is we just wanna procrastinate. Yup.

[07:01] Speaker 2: Ah. Okay. Yeah, but what about those of us, uh, you almost have to be up against the wall, uh, to, to do things. You know, if I, if... I used to do that when I was in the university. You know, it, like, "If I've got a test. I've got a test. I've got a test. Oh, my God. I've got the test in the morning."

[07:18] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[07:18] Speaker 2: "Now, I'm really g- Now, now I'm there to do. I'm not there to try."

[07:23] Speaker 4: Yeah. And you know what? Your mindset would be, "Well, I'm gonna try to get the best grade I can." So that's why you put it off till the night before. But the other student that says, "I am gonna get an A on this test." Or, "I'm gonna do everything I can." They're definitely gonna put a little more effort into it than the night before. And, you know, e- earlier, you talked about, you know, when it doesn't happen and then you get all those, like, bad feelings.

[07:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[07:50] Speaker 4: You know? The negative self-talk. I feel like when we only say we're gonna try and then we, we just kinda give up very quickly 'cause we don't have that strong doing mindset, that's when the negative stuff comes in. "Well, I'm weak. I'm lazy. I just can't do this." But if you would just push past that, that half-hearted effort and really go for it, you know, we know what that feels like. We know when we're on the other side of success. And then even if we do fail, even if you give it your all, you know what you're left with? "Wow. I'm amazing. I did everything I could. I have such pride in myself. I feel so good about myself. Even though it didn't happen, I know I gave it everything I've got." You know?

[08:32] Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I'd feel that way. I'd feel depressed there too.

[08:36] Speaker 4: (laughs) You sound like a, the perfectionist. Yeah.

[08:41] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[08:42] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[08:42] Speaker 2: And I always shot for the A, believe me. Um, but y- don't you have to be realistic?

[08:48] Speaker 4: 100%. You can't just say, you know, oh, you know... Gosh, I'm 62. I can't say, "Oh, I'm gonna go play for the, you know, LA Dodgers."

[08:57] Speaker 2: Yeah. (laughs)

[08:57] Speaker 4: Right? I'm like, I'm a, I'm little, I'm, I'm older, I don't have any experience. But I could say, "I'm gonna work for the Dodgers and get a job within the offices or selling, you know, merchandise." I mean, your goals have to be realistic. And I think even more so, your motivation for doing something has to be really strong. You know, you know, we tend to say we're gonna try to do something when we don't really, we're not really motivated to have it. So we'll just throw the try at it. Um, but for me, it's... I just think about all those people out there, and somebody listening right now might be saying, "You know, I'm gonna try to make that dermatology appointment. I know I haven't gone in a couple of years.

[09:40] Speaker 4: Ki- you know, skin cancer's on the rise."

[09:42] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[09:42] Speaker 4: "Let me try to make, uh, a dermatology appointment." And what that looks like is, "Well, I'm gonna try to find a doctor. I'm gonna try to find the best time to go. I'm gonna try to fit it into my schedule." And we end up not doing it.

[09:55] Speaker 2: Ah.

[09:55] Speaker 4: And then another year goes by, and you might miss a really big diagnosis. We can't try to make those appointments. We can't try to have a better relationship with someone. I feel like we need to do all we can to make those things happen and not fool ourself into thinking that we are. That's the big message. You just, you wanna get out of that you're fooling yourself mentality. That's why I called the book Stop Trying. You've gotta start taking action and, and doing everything you can. You know, going the extra mile, and, um, having a better mindset.

[10:37] Speaker 2: Now, what about these ladies that you've worked with? Barbra Streisand, Cher, Maria, uh...

[10:42] Speaker 4: Mariah Carey.

[10:43] Speaker 2: ... De, De, De- yeah. I'm, I'm sorry. Mariah Carey.

[10:46] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[10:46] Speaker 2: Uh, Christina Aguilera. Uh, were they triers or doers?

[10:50] Speaker 4: So my, my work with them was I represented songwriters and publishing companies. And I would give these women and men the songs. So I gave Christin- Christina Aguilera her big hit song, Genie in a Bottle. I actually put the two writers together that wrote that song.

[11:09] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[11:09] Speaker 4: And, of course, The Doer is on the top of the charts. And, um, you know, it's, it's a combination of luck and the people behind you. But if you are going to be a superstar like Barbra Steies- Streisand, Mariah Carey, and any of them, you have to have a very strong doing mentality. Let me ask you. Um, okay. Who's your, what's your favorite sport?

[11:38] Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question. Probably football.

[11:42] Speaker 4: Okay, do you have a favorite-

[11:42] Speaker 2: I'm not a sports nut, period, but you know, it's fine.

[11:45] Speaker 4: Yeah, me neither. Do you have a favorite player or a favorite, you know, athlete or someone, an author or?

[11:52] Speaker 2: No.

[11:54] Speaker 4: Well, okay. We all have a different rate-

[11:55] Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why. Let me, let me tell you why.

[11:57] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[11:57] Speaker 2: Because I value everyone in every sport and every writer. I don't have favorites. I really don't.

[12:05] Speaker 4: Okay. Well, that's fair....but we know that Serena Williams is, like, one of the top tennis players of all time, right?

[12:11] Speaker 2: Oh, sure. Yeah.

[12:12] Speaker 4: So, I don't think that she goes onto Wimbledon or wherever she's playing and says, "You know, I think I'm gonna try to win this match."

[12:21] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[12:23] Speaker 4: (laughs) She doesn't. She doesn't-

[12:24] Speaker 2: No, she's gonna go out there and say, "I'm going for the blood." (laughs)

[12:27] Speaker 4: Yes, "I'm going..." That's it, "I'm going for the blood." And I really, honestly, because I want all of us to win at the little things, like I said, you know, um, just your, your, your health is a big thing, a relationship is a big thing. But if you've been trying to restore a car in the garage, you know, or if you've been trying to go have lunch with someone you haven't seen in a couple of years, I, I truly want you to make those things happen and say, "You know what? I'm not gonna try. I'm calling her today. I'm gonna go set that lunch up. I'm not gonna try to clean out my closet. I'm doing it today." I just want us all to feel, you know, more fulfilling lives in the little everyday things, all the way up to the great big things.

[13:14] Speaker 2: Okay, but Carla, aren't you... It's just a word. Try or trying is just a word. Aren't you giving that word too much power?

[13:24] Speaker 4: Nope, and I've got 16 chapters. You know who Mel Robbins is?

[13:29] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[13:30] Speaker 4: Mel Robbins did my front cover endorsement-

[13:33] Speaker 2: Okay.

[13:33] Speaker 4: ...for my book. It says, "Lots of books promise change, but Stop Trying is the change." There's a lot of power in the word try, and we hide behind it because trying is a, uh, is a cover for procrastination, for being, allowing fear to prevent us from doing things. We, we think if we say we're gonna try... You know if someone invites you to a party that you really think you're not gonna go to, you, we may throw an, "I'll try to show up, I'll try to come, I'll try to be at your fundraiser," because we don't wanna sound like we're mean. But that word holds a lot of weight.

[14:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, but so what do I tell them? I don't wanna come?

[14:17] Speaker 4: Absolutely. I think when you are honest, if you value people-

[14:21] Speaker 2: Oh, oh, oh, oh, now, come on. I, if I said that to some organizations even when I knew I wasn't gonna be able to go, uh, but, you know, "I'm gonna... I'll try to be there," uh, y- they probably would think, "Well, she's gonna give it a shot." Maybe I would make it, maybe I wouldn't, but doggone it, uh-

[14:39] Speaker 4: Well, I think in that case-

[14:39] Speaker 2: ...I can't say to them, "Well, I don't like you, I'm not coming."

[14:42] Speaker 4: Well, no, I didn't say... You don't say, "I don't like you." (laughs)

[14:46] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[14:46] Speaker 4: You say, "I really appreciate that you're inviting me, and I happen to know that week is gonna be really busy for me. I would love you to invite me to the next one, but please don't count on me coming." And two things happen. They look at you with so much respect, and they say, "Wow, now we don't have to wait around wondering if, you know, you're gonna show up and save a seat for you and maybe, you know, tell others that you may come." And you get to do whatever it is that you're doing with a clear mind. You're not saying, "Well, I said I would go to... I said I'd try to go to that fundraiser. I think I should go. I could go. I'm too tired. I don't feel like going." But now you're filling your head with all this, you know, I should.

[15:32] Speaker 4: But if you're honest and you kindly tell another person, "I so appreciate that you're considering me and thinking of me, but I'm really not gonna make it," I think that's much kinder, and-

[15:44] Speaker 2: Okay, but see, but, well, you were saying before is, "Well, I have something else that's, you know, that's, uh, I have to do next week," or, uh... You mean I should lie to them?

[15:54] Speaker 4: No, you... If you don't think you're gonna go and you don't think you're gonna show up, you very kindly explain to them why. You know?

[16:02] Speaker 2: (laughs) Maybe I just don't like to go. I... (laughs) I can't tell them that. I can't say...

[16:07] Speaker 4: Then you say, then you say very kindly, you know, "This is... Um, you're challenging me, and I'm, I'm coming back as, you know, best I can."

[16:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[16:13] Speaker 4: And what I would do is I'd say, "I so appreciate you thinking of me, but this is not something that I, you know, feel like I can do right now." And that's it. You know?

[16:25] Speaker 2: Ah.

[16:25] Speaker 4: But at least you're being honest, you know? The leaders, the people that are running companies, the, the chairmen, the CEOs, the, the, the managers, the top people, they're accountable, and they, they will either say yes or no. They're not... They don't have a hard time saying no, and they very rarely say, "I'll try to get you that report. I'm gonna try to close this deal."

[16:49] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[16:49] Speaker 4: "Let's try to make this happen." People want to have, you know, something concrete to hold onto, and they wanna know that they, you know, that, that they can count on something. And-

[17:00] Speaker 2: Can you pass that message on to politicians?

[17:03] Speaker 4: Oh, gosh, I wish.

[17:04] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[17:04] Speaker 4: I'm gonna send one to everybody in, in Washington and beyond, right?

[17:08] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[17:08] Speaker 4: No more trying. Let's solve this homeless problem, right? (laughs)

[17:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, they never... They keep saying, "We're trying to do this other..." No, you haven't done anything, you know?

[17:17] Speaker 4: Exactly. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah, and kids-

[17:21] Speaker 2: And, and politicians are really good at, at making up excuses too.

[17:24] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, and children as well, you know?

[17:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[17:27] Speaker 4: "I'm gonna try to wake up in time. I'm gonna try to get a better grade. I'll try to..." You know, kids try all the time, and, um, I would love to see that word kind of just eliminated from their vocabulary as well, you know? "I'm gonna do..." You don't expect perfection and you don't expect success, but at least let them walk away with, "Wow, I did my best, and I'm gonna do my best for you," instead of that kind of, you know, "Oh, I'll throw a try at it," you know? And maybe it'll happen and maybe it won't.

[17:56] Speaker 4: I think that there are-

[17:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, but sometimes, uh, uh, "You know, I'm trying something new. See? I'm trying something new."

[18:01] Speaker 4: You're doing something new.

[18:03] Speaker 2: "I'm doing s-"

[18:04] Speaker 4: And you're gonna go... Yeah. You're doing-

[18:05] Speaker 2: So it's just a matter of thinking. It's a mindset.

[18:08] Speaker 4: It's a big mindset, and you know what? I think what you're alluding to is, is semantics.

[18:14] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[18:14] Speaker 4: I'm not talking about, um, if you're- if you have a coffee cup in front of you or a pen, you know, "I'm gonna try to pick up this pen." That's semantics. That's a very small action when you just do it. I mean, the big things, like I said, trying to work on a relationship, "I'm gonna try to spend more time with you." You know, if, if, if, you know, I'm married, I've been married for 28 years, and if I, you know, said to my husband, "Honey, I'm just feeling like we're not spending much time together, and, you know, you've been busy, and I've been busy..." And he said, "Okay, you know what? I'll try to spend more time with you." That would make me sad. I would want him to say, "Okay, we're gonna spend more time together, and I'm gonna make sure that we make the time to be together." You know?

[18:59] Speaker 4: I just feel like there's a big difference between, "Yeah, I'll try to do that for you," and, "I'm gonna do that for you."

[19:05] Speaker 2: Okay, let me ask you something.

[19:06] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[19:06] Speaker 2: What's the biggest tr- not try, but do, that you've done?

[19:12] Speaker 4: The biggest do that I've done?

[19:13] Speaker 2: Yeah. In other words, I, I did it, instead of... Or, I said I was gonna do it, and I did it.

[19:19] Speaker 4: Oh. Oh my goodness.

[19:19] Speaker 2: Not, "I'm gonna try."

[19:21] Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I wrote this book, and I'm 62 years old. I had no platform whatsoever, I wasn't even on Instagram, and I had just basically, you know, my huge music publishing career, I've raised my children, I have a marriage, but I've been obsessed, and I've been researching the mindset behind try. It's always triggered me. Whenever someone said, "I'm gonna try to do this for you," I always feel like, yeah, you're not gonna do it. It's, you know, "I'm gonna try to show up," you're not gonna be there. And so finally, I'm like, "You know what? The time is now, and I don't care that I'm older, I don't care that I don't have a platform, I don't care that I don't know anybody in the literary world, I've never known an agent or a publisher, I'm writing my book." And I did it. I did it, I, and I got a publishing deal, and the book is out, and it's already, it was number one on Amazon, uh, Kindle versions of self-help, and I'm out promoting it right now. That's a really big do.

[20:23] Speaker 4: I could've tried to write this book. I waited. I waited a long time, and I finally realized, my clock is ticking. I've gotta do this now, or it's never gonna happen. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, really regret. That's another thing. We try, we try, we try, and then we end up just regretting what we didn't do.

[20:44] Speaker 2: How do you fight the fear of failure? 'Cause that's w- in trying, that's part of it too.

[20:49] Speaker 4: Yeah, you're so smart. That is one of the biggest reasons that we only offer to try, 'cause we're so afraid of failing. And my answer to that is to begin to love failure, and embrace it. Like, I have failed so many times already in this process because I've never done it before. And every time I fail, I say, "Okay, there's a lesson. Now I'm growing." If I'm not doing anything, I'm not failing, I'm gonna keep myself very safe from failure. So, the way to do that is to just not do anything.

[21:26] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[21:27] Speaker 4: But when you take, when you make mistakes, you're like, "Yay, now I'm growing. Now I've learned what not to do." And, you know, we, we tend to think, "What are people gonna think of me because I failed? They're gonna make fun of me, they're gonna laugh at me. You know, they'll say, 'I told you so.'" But, it also-

[21:45] Speaker 2: I don't, uh, you know what? That's one thing I've never done. I don't care what anybody else thinks.

[21:49] Speaker 4: Exactly. And, you know, but the truth is, when you are brave enough to do something and say, "You know what? I'm not afraid of failing. I'm gonna go for it," people tend to look at you and admire you. And when you fall down and you do fail, they're gonna be there to pick you up and say, "Gosh, you're so brave, and you inspired me t- to do this even though I might fail." It's, I think failure's, um, I, I welcome it, and if you're afraid of it, I would learn how to become familiar with that, and-

[22:21] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[22:21] Speaker 4: ... really embrace it, and see it as the best thing that can happen to us. Because that's gonna get you closer to what you wanna succeed at.

[22:29] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I, um, I'll give you an example.

[22:32] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[22:32] Speaker 2: Um, I've been doing this for five decades.

[22:35] Speaker 4: Hmm.

[22:36] Speaker 2: Um, talk shows, news reporter, all that kind of stuff. Um, but the only thing I have always said is that, yes, I agree with you 100% on the mistakes, because you can learn from a mistake. However, if you keep doing the same mistake over and over, then just put the word stupid across your head.

[22:54] Speaker 4: (laughs) Totally, yeah. Yeah.

[22:57] Speaker 2: So, you know, but, but, you, you do make mis- and you do learn, and you take a, take it as a learning lesson. You're, you're right. It's important.

[23:04] Speaker 4: Yeah. It's really something to be... Uh, you know, I, I am not afraid of failure anymore. I, um, from a young girl, I've been-

[23:14] Speaker 2: Now wait a minute, you said anymore. Were you afraid before?

[23:18] Speaker 4: Um, probably, I was gonna say yeah.

[23:20] Speaker 2: Ah.

[23:20] Speaker 4: As a young girl, you know, when you're young, and you're out there, and you're very more timid, um, you kind of have to learn by, by doing. Yeah, of course. I think we, we're all human beings, and, you know, until you become very comfortable with the failure thing, it could potentially block you.

[23:40] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[23:40] Speaker 4: So when I was younger, I would not do certain things because I was afraid. You know, "Will I look stupid? Will people make fun of me? What if I fail?" But then as I got older and just really threw myself into life and said, "This is, this is where I wanna go, and if I wanna be that, to that, if I wanna be that person-"... then I'm gonna have to fail on my way up, you know?

[24:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[24:02] Speaker 4: And so, but I, I just, we're all human beings, and we're all, you know, it's a very natural thing to be afraid of failure.

[24:11] Speaker 2: Sometimes what happens to you when you're younger makes you stronger, uh, 'cause I was on the overweight side, I had acne, and I wasn't always accepted, you know, with the in-crowd. But you know what? That made me stronger to go out there, and I said, "I'll find something that I do better." Well, I was really good at being on stage and singing and acting, and, and that's what got me going, and that kept me going until I ke- and I, I did what you're saying. Uh, I'm not gonna say, "I'm trying." I'm doing it. I'm going there. I'm gonna audition. I'm gonna get that part.

[24:43] Speaker 4: Yes. Yes. And you know what? You end up with, when you do fail, you know, and, like, you have the mindset you just said, "I'm gonna do this," you have more confidence, you will have more self-compassion.

[24:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[24:58] Speaker 4: You'll have fewer regrets. You know, I mean, gosh, I just, this is the person I really wanna reach more than anyone, the person that's had a lifelong dream, but they have allowed fear of failure and just kind of procrastination to keep them from going after what's gonna make them so happy.

[25:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[25:22] Speaker 4: You know?

[25:22] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[25:23] Speaker 4: It's usually much bigger in our heads anyway-

[25:25] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[25:25] Speaker 4: ... than the reality of things. Once you start taking steps and start the doing process, it's very exciting and very motivating.

[25:34] Speaker 2: You betcha. Now, do you have a website?

[25:37] Speaker 4: I do. It's, um, well, here you go. It's stop-trying.com. (laughs)

[25:44] Speaker 2: Trying.com. And the, the book, uh, Stop Trying, where is it available?

[25:50] Speaker 4: You can buy it everywhere. It came out just a couple weeks ago. Um, it's on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, anywhere books are sold. And I have an Instagram account, just @karlaondrasik, and every day, I do really fun posts about, you know, just the reminders and some of the highlights from the book about, you know, t- how trying holds us back. And, um, yeah, I just did a really funny one for Halloween.

[26:17] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[26:17] Speaker 4: It hasn't come out yet. But, you know, in the, in the little Instagram, you know, kid knocks at the door, and I don't have any candy in the bowl. And I say, "You know what? I tried to go to the store." (laughs)

[26:30] Speaker 2: (laughs) Yeah, right. (laughs)

[26:31] Speaker 4: I tried to get... I, I really tried really hard, but I didn't make it, you know?

[26:36] Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think we should add one other word to your, your doing.

[26:40] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[26:40] Speaker 2: And that's called courage, because courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear.

[26:47] Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh. It's, you are so right. You have to be so brave and courageous.

[26:52] Speaker 2: Yup.

[26:53] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[26:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[26:53] Speaker 4: And boy, what great feelings that inspires in us, right?

[26:57] Speaker 2: You betcha.

[26:57] Speaker 4: To be brave and courageous. You know, you were, you are, you know, and that's definitely a, a wonderful (inaudible)

[27:03] Speaker 2: And you'll continue to be. (laughs)

[27:05] Speaker 4: Yeah, you will continue to be. (laughs)

[27:06] Speaker 2: I love it. Well, Karla, thank you so much for taking the time with us, and we'll get back to you, 'cause this has gotta be to be continued.

[27:14] Speaker 4: Oh, I love it. You were, you really brought up a lot of great questions and things that we all think of. And, everybody, get out there, and just keep, do your do. Make it happen.

[27:26] Speaker 2: At any age. And believe me, uh, I'm gonna, a little later on, I'm gonna be talking to a man who is 77 years old, and he just got nominated for a pop solo at the Grammys.

[27:38] Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh.

[27:40] Speaker 2: So, hey, look at Colonel Sanders. He started KFC in his 70s. (laughs) It just-

[27:45] Speaker 4: Absolutely true. So, yes, whether you're 14 or 90-

[27:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[27:51] Speaker 4: ... we can, we can all reach for our dreams. But you're not gonna get there if you're trying to get them.

[27:56] Speaker 2: That's true.

[27:56] Speaker 4: You know?

[27:57] Speaker 2: Absolutely.

[27:58] Speaker 4: There you go.

[27:58] Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Karla. Keep up the good work, and we'll talk again.

[28:02] Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much. Bye-bye.

[28:04] Speaker 2: Bye-bye, dear. Stop-trying.com is the website. The name of the book, Stop Trying. All right, strokes. Hundreds of thousands of strokes a year. Uh, how do we keep it away? Uh, it's a scary thing to have.

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[34:20] Speaker 5: (upbeat music)

[34:21] Speaker 2: Stars from yesteryear join us on Pop Star Talk. They come from movies, television, radio, and more. I'm Mary Jane Pop, here. I've had the opportunity to know these stars up close and personal for some five decades, and I wanna share their secrets and lives with you on Pop Star Talk, with some surprises too. So, let's share these stories together on Pop Star Talk, right here on BBS Radio.

[34:49] Speaker 3: Whoa! I feel good. I knew that I would. I feel good.

[34:58] Speaker 2: Well, we all hope that you feel good, uh, and that I hope I feel good. I, uh, it's all part of life, but did you know that every 40 seconds someone has a stroke in the US? Now, that's a whopping almost 800,000 strokes a year. It's deadly and it leaves so many people with significant health challenges. So, what if you could cut stroke risks? Well, that's what Dr. Jeremy Lift says you can do. He's a board certified neurologist specializing in stroke and brain aneurysms. Oh, and not all strokes are alike, and we're gonna find out why. Dr. Lift, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.

[35:41] Speaker 11: It's my pleasure. Great to be here.

[35:43] Speaker 2: Okay. You say there are different types of strokes. Like, can you explain that?

[35:50] Speaker 11: Yes, I can. Um, there are two major types. The first, and the most common, the one that people hear about most is when you're not getting enough blood...... to the brain because there's a clot. And then the other type, which is a little less common, is when you have a hemorrhage where you have blood leaking into the brain.

[36:07] Speaker 2: Oh, boy.

[36:08] Speaker 11: But the first one is the more common one.

[36:10] Speaker 2: Okay. Are they equally as deadly?

[36:15] Speaker 11: Um, it depends. (laughs) Uh, it's a little bit of a nuanced answer. Hemorrhages are generally a little bit, uh, more severe than clots, but you can have a big clot and it would still be a devastating stroke.

[36:26] Speaker 2: Got it. So what are some of the warning signs be- and this is the big one, warning signs, and are the warning signs the same for men as, as they are for women? 'Cause in heart problems that, that seems to be different.

[36:41] Speaker 11: Yeah. Um, unfortunately, most strokes will occur with no warning sign, and so-

[36:49] Speaker 2: Oh, boy.

[36:49] Speaker 11: ... you really have to control your risk factors. However, um, there are sometimes what you can have mini-strokes or TIAs, and that is a description of if part of your body goes numb for a little bit, or you can't use your hand on one side for a short time, or you're having trouble talking, or your balance goes out, your coordination, or your vision goes out, and it happens all of a sudden and there's no pain associated with it, that is a big red flag that you need to seek, uh, attention, a 911 emergency room immediately.

[37:24] Speaker 2: Really?

[37:24] Speaker 11: Because the quicker you get to, uh, service is better.

[37:27] Speaker 2: So would those be considered like TIAs or is that different?

[37:33] Speaker 11: Well, it's interesting. A TIA really is defined as if only if it goes away within an hour, but you don't really have an hour to find out if it's gonna go away.

[37:42] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[37:42] Speaker 11: You kind of make the diagnosis in retrospect. You can't wait to figure out whether it's gonna be transient or permanent, so it's important just to get to medical attention immediately.

[37:52] Speaker 2: Got it. Okay. So let's talk about some of the risk factors. Um, I know blood pressure's gotta be one of the, the top of the line, right?

[38:02] Speaker 11: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Uh, that's... it's the most important one. It's the most common one. People walk around with high blood pressure. It's another disease that doesn't give you a problem until it gives you a big problem. It's painless, so people think that they can just walk around with numbers that are way out of whack. But what's happening is that the blood vessels that are in your heart, in your neck, and in your brain are getting damaged little by little by this blood till one day you have your event. And in the case of what we're talking about, you have your stroke. So it's extremely important to monitor your blood pressure, keep it under control, uh, follow your doctor's advice regarding exercise and diet and medications. That's, that's A number one, blood pressure.

[38:42] Speaker 2: Okay. But, but Dr. With, I have been doing talk shows for five decades. I have seen those numbers jump all over the place as to what, what your blood pressure should be. Uh, is there a should be now? 'Cause I know that updating it has changed from maybe 10 years ago.

[39:02] Speaker 11: Yeah, you're absolutely right. Um, in general, you're looking for 140 over 80 or less. Sometimes if you have certain risk factors, you wanna be under 130. And really the, the key is your doctor will know. There's no... there isn't like a blanket one size fits all, but nobody wants their systolic, which is the top number, over 140. So look at 140 over 80 and talk with your doctor. But the key is whatever the target that your doctor gives you, it's just so important to try to get it to that, uh, because you wanna try to avoid a devastating, a devastating day.

[39:37] Speaker 2: Got it. Got it, got it. And of course, blood pressure fluctuates throughout the day too, right?

[39:45] Speaker 11: Yes, it does.

[39:46] Speaker 2: You know, if I'm doing-

[39:47] Speaker 11: It does.

[39:47] Speaker 2: ... more activity or not, uh, doing activity or whatever, right? Yeah?

[39:52] Speaker 11: Yeah. So I mean, if, if you took your blood pressure while you're actively exercising, it's gonna go up and that's fine. What you're really looking for is the aggregate of blood pressures over a series of readings. Um, in fact, commonly people have what you call a white coat syndrome. So sometimes people will walk into my office and I guess they're anxious, so they try not to move today.

[40:10] Speaker 2: I'm holding my hand up. That's me. (laughs)

[40:14] Speaker 11: (laughs)

[40:14] Speaker 2: I, I, I see I'm-

[40:15] Speaker 11: But I-

[40:15] Speaker 2: I love my doctor, but I hate to be here, you know? (laughs)

[40:19] Speaker 11: It, it makes me feel a little bad. Like, don't be, don't be nervous. I'm here to help. (laughs) But anyway, you know, and they, and they're, and I'll take their blood pressure and it'll say 150 over 80, and I'll say, "This is too high." And they'll say, "Well, you know, every time I take it at home, it's one- in the 130s and I'm with my doctors in the 130." Say, "Okay, well I'm... you're not gonna start a medication for a one-time reading of 150 because you're in the doctor's office." That's why it's actually important to be able to buy your own machine. You can get it for cheap in any pharmacy and just take it, um, at home when you're comfortable and relaxed 'cause that's really the, the true measure and that's what you need to be looking at.

[40:52] Speaker 2: And also not to become obsessive 'cause I, I become obsessive, uh, because I, I've got... I had a, a blood pressure, uh, one of the Omne or whatever the heck that is, um, a long time ago, and at... when I first got it, oh my gosh, you know, it's like three, four times a day and I'm going, "This is stupid." You know? (laughs) "I shouldn't be doing it that often." Uh, same thing when I got the KardiaMobile, you know? (laughs) I was obsessive with the darn thing. Uh, and now I've got the app, you know, the watch, which is even worse.

[41:21] Speaker 11: Yeah.

[41:22] Speaker 2: You can't stand... (laughs) 'cause it keeps telling you things, (laughs) and I'm going, "I'm taking it off 'cause I don't wanna hear this anymore." (laughs) I really don't. Um, but you know-

[41:31] Speaker 11: I, I suppose there's a fine line between trying to drive yourself crazy, but, you know?

[41:35] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[41:36] Speaker 11: Yeah.

[41:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[41:36] Speaker 11: It... there's a... there's an art to it, and your doctor should be able to help you.

[41:40] Speaker 2: No. (laughs) No, 'cause they tell me, "Don't be obsessive about it." Yeah. Easy for you to say, you know?

[41:46] Speaker 11: (laughs)

[41:46] Speaker 2: But it's not that easy to do. Now let's talk about lifestyle. How important is diet and, uh, and/or exercise in, uh, maintaining the, the risk factor or kind of lowering the risk factor?

[42:01] Speaker 11: E- extremely important. So r- regarding lifestyle, like the first thing is smoking.

[42:06] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[42:06] Speaker 11: Like that's just, that's immediately, you just have to stop smoking. Uh, y- certainly the amount of people that smoke in the, in the United States is much less than it used to be, but that will damage everything. It's not just lung cancer, but it's, it's arteries, so it's heart attacks, it's the arteries that are in your neck, it's the arteries in your brain. Um, if you smoke, the best thing you could possibly do is just stop. Uh, and that, that's a, that's a no-brainer, um, no pun intended. But, um, if, so beyond that, in terms of diet, um, and this is a problem that's throughout the country and it's, I think it's been given a lot more attention the last few years thankfully, it's really things that affect your metabolic function, things that ef- uh, foods that affect your liver and foods that promote insulin resistance. Um, the worst arteries that I've seen in patients in their neck and in their brain are people that have diabetes that's not being controlled.

[43:01] Speaker 2: Mm.

[43:01] Speaker 11: Um, they may also have high blood pressure but if you have diabetes and you have a hemoglobin A1C, which is a, a blood level which checks your control of your sugar over the past six months, you know, it needs to be under six. I see patients that have 14.

[43:17] Speaker 2: Whoa.

[43:17] Speaker 11: And when you see patients like that, and then you see their arteries are riddled with plaques, it's no, it's no coincidence. Um, excess sugar, excess, uh, ultra-processed foods, seed oils, vegetable oils that get heated up, uh, the stuff that you can buy in the supermarket that can sit there for 15 years, you know, that's not the type of thing that you should be putting in your body if it can sit on a shelf for 15 years.

[43:43] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[43:44] Speaker 11: And all of these things contribute to liver dysfunction, and all of these things contribute to insulin resistance. Um, super big gulps, sodas, uh, excess sugars, desserts, high-fructose corn syrup, these are the absolute worst things for the, for your circulation.

[44:00] Speaker 2: Mm.

[44:00] Speaker 11: And, uh, it's easier said than done-

[44:03] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[44:03] Speaker 11: ... because these things are the cheapest things that you can have, they're the easiest things to get to.

[44:07] Speaker 2: And they're on every block, aren't they?

[44:08] Speaker 11: And you don't have to think about it, it's making an investment in your body. There you go.

[44:10] Speaker 2: And they're on every block. Right?

[44:13] Speaker 11: Yeah.

[44:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's true.

[44:14] Speaker 11: They're prevalent, they're absolutely prevalent. Yeah, you just made an investment in your body.

[44:18] Speaker 2: And they're very, doggone it, and they taste good. Doggonit. Uh, they-

[44:21] Speaker 11: Oh, certainly.

[44:22] Speaker 2: You know?

[44:23] Speaker 11: They certainly do.

[44:24] Speaker 2: Is it, I mean, I, I heard things like at some places where they have french fries, there's sugar in there. And I'm going, "Why the heck would you put sugar in french fries?" Because I guess you get addicted to it.

[44:35] Speaker 11: You can put sugar in any, yeah, sugar i- is an addicting substance. I mean, there's no question about it, and eating it in extreme moderation is okay, but no one, you know, we don't do that anymore.

[44:45] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[44:46] Speaker 11: And it's put into everything. It's put into bread, to french fries, to pasta sauces, to everything, and it's a big problem.

[44:52] Speaker 2: And we, I- it's so f- strange that you say that, because even with bread, I mean, I'm Romanian, so, uh, y- bread was part of your staple, but it was homemade bread, and, uh, if you look back into like, the '50s and '60s television shows, uh, some of them were entertainment shows and they'd show the audience, these people, there were very few really heavy, heavy obese people. Uh, now you look in the audiences of talk shows and, and that, the majority is obese as opposed to (laughs) those who are slender. It, do you notice that?

[45:32] Speaker 11: Uh, 100%. And, and the amount of childhood obesity has skyrocketed.

[45:37] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[45:37] Speaker 11: Um, you're absolutely right, the homemade ingredient. I think people eat out a lot more, and they have absolutely no idea what they're putting into their body.

[45:45] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[45:46] Speaker 11: E- eating out used to be a, used to be a, a luxury, even when I was a kid, you know, 40 years ago. Now it's sort of the mainstay, you eat, you, you grab something quick. You really don't know what's, what's going into your body and you're talking about the homemade bread, there's absolutely a difference between that and if you're gonna buy white bread off of a, you know, Wonder Bread or whatever, not to call out any specific companies, but there's just so much sugar and so much processing in these things.

[46:09] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[46:10] Speaker 11: It's, it's just really not that healthy. yeah, it's tough.

[46:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I remember sitting at the table and, you know, we would, they would, w- my, the Romanian recipes were, you know, stews and soups and, and bread and salads, and, uh, and, and, and we weren't overweight, you know? (laughs) It's like-

[46:25] Speaker 11: Exactly.

[46:26] Speaker 2: And now, uh, as well I'm getting older too, so it's like, uh, it's a lot harder to take the weight off. That's the, that's one of the problems too these days, right?

[46:36] Speaker 11: A- absolutely. I mean, just, j- if, one thing to, to think about if you look at, you know, even look at a place like Italy, you know, or, or a place where they're just eating p- uh, large amounts of pasta, now they can also eat fish, and, and healthy fats, but they are not eating the same type of carbs that we are here.

[46:55] Speaker 2: No.

[46:55] Speaker 11: And they're eating (clears throat) in, in more moderation and they're probably getting more exercise too.

[47:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[47:00] Speaker 11: And it does make a, it makes a big difference and, uh, it, it's, it is the, the cause of our, th- the excess sugar, it really is the issue with our, our obesity problem in the United States.

[47:10] Speaker 2: I mean, just be honest, look at the French, all those gravies and s- you know, stuff that they put in there, and, uh, the pastries.

[47:18] Speaker 11: Butter.

[47:18] Speaker 2: But, yeah, and, and they're not overw- not like we are. It just doesn't, it doesn't make any sense, but it does when you're talking about the stuff that's processed, a lot of the processed stuff.

[47:29] Speaker 11: Yes.

[47:30] Speaker 2: So.

[47:31] Speaker 11: Absolutely.

[47:31] Speaker 2: Amazing. Okay, so what about exercise? Uh, how much ch- exercise, it, I guess it depends on your age and your ability too, but, um, w- what kind of exercise is good for, um, reducing the stroke risk?

[47:49] Speaker 11: Yeah, it's a great question. I, it also depends on your baseline. Like, I have patients who haven't gotten up and walked in, in 30 years.

[47:57] Speaker 2: Oh, geez.

[47:58] Speaker 11: You know, it would be great to, to jog you know, three or four miles a day and do some weight training, but if you don't do, if you don't...... walk on the sidewalk, then don't try to do that at first, because you're only gonna just not be able to do it and get depressed and give up the whole thing. If you don't walk at all, just, just try going for a walk. You have to elevate your heart rate a little bit, but you don't wanna push yourself beyond what you have, uh, what you're able to do.

[48:23] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[48:24] Speaker 11: Little by little, step by step, get out and walk three times a week, and then start getting up and, and jogging a little bit. If you want something low impact, if you can get yourself to an elliptical, I think that's wonderful, 'cause it elevates your heart rate and it's really low impact on your, on your hips and your knees. I also think that, um, that mild or, or lightweight training is very, very effective. If you can increase your muscle mass and get it a little bit more lean, uh, multiple studies have shown that you're going to be, uh, much better able to, uh, get past inflammation and get past any type of disease, and also lower your atherosclerotic risk.

[49:03] Speaker 11: I'm not talking about, uh, uh, bulking up to, uh, compete in a tournament or anything like that-

[49:08] Speaker 2: No, no, no.

[49:09] Speaker 11: ... but just some lightweight training, and just get out, stop being sedentary, uh, try to get up and walk and just do something. And then little by little you feel better, you lose some weight, just get a little bit more aggressive.

[49:20] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. How important is, uh, BMI, body mass index?

[49:26] Speaker 11: Well, BMI is, uh, it, it's sort of a very, um, basic calculation that you can make. Um, it's good, you know, if you have no more specific information about things. But it kinda does give you the idea of if you're at a certain height, you should have, um, a certain weight. The one caveat to that is, and you certainly don't wanna be in the morbidly obese range, that can't be helpful, but, um, genetics do play a s- a, a factor in some ways in one's weight.

[49:58] Speaker 11: And if you eat a lot of ultra-processed foods and a lot of seed oils and vegetable oils, and you are poisoning your liver with alcohol and with sugar-

[50:08] Speaker 2: Oh, boy.

[50:08] Speaker 11: ... you may not necessarily be obese. There are examples of people who are a little bit healthier, if they're a little bit more, uh, if they're a little bit, have a little bit more weight, and people that are not as healthy but they, they eat horribly and they're underweight. So it sorta gives you, like, um, a, a, a basic idea.

[50:26] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[50:26] Speaker 11: But it's certainly not the end all and be all of w- of what you should be looking at.

[50:30] Speaker 2: Okay. Um, y- uh, sleep quality. Now, this is one that I, I do, uh, I try and watch the diet and exercise. I do walks, and I do a stationary bike and all that. I am gonna go back to the gym because the pandemic, I think, did a lot of damage to everybody. Um, but, (sighs) sleep, I, I find sleep boring, you know? (laughs) And it's like, I, I don't li- I know that they, that they say, say, "Seven to nine hours." Nine hours, I'd get up with such a headache. It would be unbelievable.

[51:02] Speaker 11: (laughs)

[51:02] Speaker 2: Uh, if I get six, I'm, that, that to me is good. But is it different for each person, sleep quality? Uh, the quality too is important, right?

[51:15] Speaker 11: Yeah, the, the time, the amount of sleep that one needs, um, it differs from each person. And, um, as you get older, uh, we generally sleep less. (clears throat) It really is, uh, the quality. Um, it gets a little specific, I mean, in terms of the, the stages of sleep and, and REM and, and the other deep stages of sleep. But when it comes to sleep, (clears throat) one of the most important things is you have to be breathing well.

[51:38] Speaker 11: (laughs)

[51:38] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[51:39] Speaker 11: And, um, sleep apnea, obstructive sleep apnea, is a huge risk factor that we just learn more and more about-

[51:46] Speaker 2: Wow.

[51:46] Speaker 11: ... uh, for both stroke and heart disease. Um, usually, uh, what you're talking about is obstruction of the airways, either from, uh, a certain size of neck, or from obesity, or, uh, sinus issues, where you are having periods throughout the night in which you are, uh, just not getting enough oxygen.

[52:05] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[52:06] Speaker 11: And that really sets off a chain reaction in your body to compensate, uh, for that, which leads to high blood pressure. It leads to high blood pressure in the lung system called pulmonary hypertension, and has been shown repeatedly in multiple studies to increase your risk of heart attack and stroke. Um, signs of that would be excessive daytime sleepiness, uh, during the day. If you have a bed partner, they may simply tell you that you are snoring extremely loudly and appear to be choking at times.

[52:36] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[52:36] Speaker 11: Um, (laughs) it's very important, um, has, if you, uh, if you have a doctor, you have a primary care doctor, you get a referral for a sleep study. It may save your life-

[52:47] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[52:47] Speaker 11: ... because they may find that you're, you stop breathing, uh, uh, 50 times an hour.

[52:52] Speaker 2: Oh, wow.

[52:53] Speaker 11: And, uh, pe- uh, people, uh, come up with shocking, uh, you know, and there's videos of them just stopping. You don't know it. You absolutely don't know it. Um, but it's putting your life at risk, and-

[53:03] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[53:03] Speaker 11: ... um, you, uh, we have treatments for it.

[53:06] Speaker 2: Amazing. Yeah, uh, th- what about the number of hours? I mean, how do c- how long do you sleep at night?

[53:13] Speaker 11: (laughs)

[53:14] Speaker 2: You're a doctor. I mean-

[53:15] Speaker 11: It depends if I'm on call or not.

[53:16] Speaker 2: Oh, okay. (laughs)

[53:17] Speaker 11: Um, but if I, (laughs) if I'm not on call, uh, I try to get seven or eight hours, yeah.

[53:23] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Okay. I, uh, when I was younger, I slept less. Uh, when I was younger-

[53:29] Speaker 11: Really?

[53:29] Speaker 2: ... I could get away with two, or three, or four hours at the most to, of sleep. And I wa- and I'd be, had, I was goin' strong all day. (laughs) Uh, I need more sleep now. I'm old. I'm (laughs) I'm in my 70s.

[53:44] Speaker 11: (laughs)

[53:44] Speaker 2: I'm, I'm 79 years old. Uh-

[53:47] Speaker 11: Yeah.

[53:47] Speaker 2: ... and I seem to need a little bit more than I used to get, (laughs) uh, uh, 'cause the body just kinda craves it a little bit. An- But I can, I can go without a whole lot of sleep. Like I said, I find it boring. You know, it's w- I know this sounds terrible, uh, but I can't help what I think. I, it's almost like I'm wasting-

[54:05] Speaker 11: (laughs)

[54:05] Speaker 2: ... eight hours of the, a third of my day is-

[54:09] Speaker 11: (laughs)

[54:09] Speaker 2: ... you know, (laughs) being wasted sleeping. But I know it's not.

[54:13] Speaker 11: Well-

[54:13] Speaker 2: Uh, it, it mends the body.

[54:15] Speaker 11: When you wake up, do you feel excited? You, you, you can't wait to get to work, is that why you find sleep boring? (laughs)

[54:21] Speaker 2: No. I, uh, I, I, when I get up in the morning, I, I just have a routine. I have my routine, I do some exercise, I do some weights, um, I do my walk, do my stationary bike, feed my dogs, uh, you know, it, the... and I have a good routine. I don't care if I get four hours of sleep or six hours of sleep. The most I ever get is, like, six, I, seven... I don't, I don't remember the last time I had seven. (laughs) But it's ju- I, I don't know why. I, I'm much better doing stuff late at night. I'm a night person. Maybe because I was always entertaining or always doing news, and, and you don't get home till 12:00, 1:00 in the morning, and then you don't wanna go to sleep. Uh, I don't... I can't go to sleep m- any earlier than about 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning. Is that bad?

[55:14] Speaker 11: Yeah. I mean, no, not... I don't, I don't think it's bad. No. I think everybody has their own, their own time, and if you feel fairly energized during the day, then you probably have gotten enough sleep. You know, we have a lot of reserve for, uh, adversity, for everything when we're young. You know, I used to-

[55:31] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[55:31] Speaker 11: If I was (laughs) in college, I wa- and pulling an all-nighter, and I got two hours of sleep, woke up, and take a test, I don't think I could do that now even at my age of 44, but, um...

[55:40] Speaker 2: (laughs) Oh, you're young. (laughs)

[55:42] Speaker 11: But, uh, yeah. I, I mean, I don't think there's a, there's not... in, in, generally in medicine, there's no one-size-fits-all, uh, uh, criteria, and some people need less than others. I think Thomas Edison famously needed three to four hours and he did pretty well.

[55:55] Speaker 2: Gotcha.

[55:56] Speaker 11: But, um, you know, if you're getting six hours and you feel pretty good, um... the other thing is, you know, when I, when I talked about sleep apnea, you could get 11 hours and have sleep apnea and wake up hungover, because you haven't been dr- just breathing.

[56:10] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[56:10] Speaker 11: If you've, if you have six hours of good, good breathing and good oxygen, you're gonna feel a lot better.

[56:16] Speaker 2: Gotcha.

[56:16] Speaker 11: So in some ways, that's not as important, but-

[56:19] Speaker 2: Is age a factor-

[56:20] Speaker 11: ... I think it's true, everyone's different.

[56:21] Speaker 2: ... in risks, uh, in, uh, stroke risk?

[56:25] Speaker 11: Did you say age?

[56:26] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[56:28] Speaker 11: Yeah. Well, in general, the... as you get older, your risk of stroke goes up-

[56:32] Speaker 2: Oh, no.

[56:32] Speaker 11: ... for all, over, over the same risk factors, simply because, um, you... the same ri- the risk factors for stroke essentially are risk factors because they are slow processes which lead to narrowing of arteries. And so over time, for the same risk factor, the narrowing gets worse. And so as you get older, your risk goes up.

[56:55] Speaker 2: Oh, okay. What about genetics? Does that enter into the, the picture at all?

[57:02] Speaker 11: It certainly does. Um, certain ethni- ethnicities are more prone to get hardening of the arteries, and in fact, certain ethnicities have different locations of arteries. We're not 100% sure why, uh, why, uh, uh, certain locations, uh, can get more narrow than others. That is to say, let's say the, the carotid artery, which is the main artery that's running in your neck-

[57:24] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[57:25] Speaker 11: ... uh, can get damaged. Some people could smoke and eat the worst things and still have clean carotid arteries. Other people could do everything right, but their genetics is such that their carotid arteries get narrow, so-

[57:37] Speaker 2: I'll be darned.

[57:38] Speaker 11: ... um, uh, there's no qu- absolutely. Genetics plays a risk factor. It's sort of a combination of genetics ver- plus the lifestyle and the way you choose to live.

[57:45] Speaker 2: Got it. Do you have a website?

[57:50] Speaker 11: I do. Uh, my website is jeremyliffmd.com. That's L-I-F-F as in Frank. Uh, you can also go to nyneurodoc.com.

[58:02] Speaker 2: Okay. You said Jeremy Liff doc, doc or doctor?

[58:08] Speaker 11: It's jeremyliffmd-

[58:10] Speaker 2: Oh, M-D.

[58:11] Speaker 11: ... dot com.

[58:11] Speaker 2: Sorry, dot com. Okay. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. Uh, you know, I, I like to get... let people at least have all th- the facts. Then what you do with them, that's up to you, right?

[58:26] Speaker 11: That's certainly the case. It's your body.

[58:28] Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, one last thing in the last, uh, 30 seconds or so that we have here. When is it if you start feeling what, get to the ER like ASAP?

[58:42] Speaker 11: The key is an acute, meaning a sudden, totally sudden onset of dysfunction that came as if it came out of the blue... So, you can't talk, uh, correctly anymore, you're slurring your speech, one side of your body isn't working, part of your vision has gone out on you, you can't walk well anymore, whereas a minute ago you were fine, that's really the key. If you experience any of those symptoms, uh, call 911 or get to an emergency room immediately.

[59:08] Speaker 2: Got it. Got it. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. I hope you come back again.

[59:15] Speaker 11: I hope you have me. You're very welcome.

[59:16] Speaker 2: Super. Stay on the line. Don't go away, okay? (smacks lips)

[59:20] Speaker 11: Okay.

[59:20] Speaker 2: And in the meantime, folks, as always, live simply, laugh often, love deeply, and above all else, dare to dream. I hope you'll be with us on Pop Talk. We are always going in search of truth. (pop music plays)