00:02

Speaker 1
Okay. Good afternoon, Melbourne, good afternoon, Australia, and good day and evening to our international viewers as well, or listeners, I should say, as well. I'm Helen Taylor, welcome to my show, Inspired Radio. I'm here with you every Wednesday, 12:00 PM Melbourne Australia time, and Tuesday, 7:00 PM Central Time for Canada and the US, for conversations and stories to inspire you. This is the BBS Radio TV platform, and we're going live to 200 plus outlets worldwide. Before we start, I just want to say thank you to our sponsors. Thank you for your support, always. You're an essential part of this show, so if you'd like to sponsor, the link is in the show notes. Inspired Radio is all about change, getting uncomfortable, and shaking up the status quo, because we're breaking free from not only limiting systems, but limiting lives, and embracing our infinite potential. My guests are here to tell their story, because storytelling is now creating a new world.

01:06

Speaker 1
So let me introduce today's guest, Nicole Trimboli. Today's conversation is one that might just change the way you think about success, health, and what it really means to take care of yourself. For years, she pushed through life at full speed, striving, achieving, and putting everyone else first. Is that ringing a bell for anybody? Until everything came to a halt. What followed was a powerful wake-up call that reshaped not only her health, but her entire perspective on life. So sho- joining me today is Nicole Trimboli, here to talk about her journey, her insights, and why taking care of yourself is not a luxury, it's essential. So welcome, Nicole.

01:50

Speaker 2
Thank you, Helen. It's wonderful to be here, and appreciate you having me on the show.

01:55

Speaker 1
Yes. Yes, it's great, isn't it? It's wonderful having you here. And let's just let everybody know the kind of s- serendipity that happened that connected us together.

02:04

Speaker 2
Yes. It was-

02:06

Speaker 1
You have a friend.

02:06

Speaker 2
... it qua- uh, I have a friend (laughs) who crossed your path-

02:11

Speaker 1
Yeah.

02:11

Speaker 2
... uh, just by chance, we'll say. (laughs)

02:15

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

02:15

Speaker 2
Uh, and it was actually a conversation that you had between yourself and her, thinking that perhaps maybe she might be a potential person to put on your radio show when in actual fact, she put me forward and said, "No, I, I know somebody that would be fantastic for your radio show." (laughs)

02:35

Speaker 1
Yes. Yes. Isn't it wonderful? I mean, to everyone listening out there, you just never know what comes out of a conversation.

02:40

Speaker 2
That's right. Thank you, Emma.

02:42

Speaker 1
Yeah.

02:42

Speaker 2
(laughs)

02:42

Speaker 1
Yeah. Thank you, Emma. Absolutely. So let's start with, firstly, what was your wake-up call?

02:51

Speaker 2
Okay. My wake-up call, uh, was definitely my cancer diagnosis, but not once, twice. So the first time around, I, I had the little tap on the shoulder and, and I went through treatment, and, um, I got back into life, and, and then slowly life consumed me again, and then I got the big, the big wake-up call, which was the second-

03:19

Speaker 1
Oh.

03:19

Speaker 2
... the second round.

03:19

Speaker 1
And that's interesting because ne- underneath wake-up call, I wrote down, "Were there clues?" Right? And that's really interesting that you said, "First wake-up call, second wake-up call." Yeah?

03:30

Speaker 2
Yeah. Sometimes I find the universe just taps you on the shoulder, and the second time, it actually punched me in the face and said, "Hey, Nicole, sit up, take notice. You need to change a few things in your life."

03:41

Speaker 1
And it does. It does. I agree with you there. I call it the tap on the shoulder, and then I call it the Mack truck.

03:46

Speaker 2
Yes.

03:46

Speaker 1
It goes right through your life, right?

03:48

Speaker 2
Yes.

03:49

Speaker 1
Yeah.

03:49

Speaker 2
Yes.

03:49

Speaker 1
Were there clues before that?

03:52

Speaker 2
Oh, definitely, clues that I was ignoring-

03:54

Speaker 1
Okay.

03:54

Speaker 2
... and I guess to probably my age and the generation that, that I was too. I am currently 52 years old, so my generation was the next generation of, I guess, women who grew up, got married, and we had to do it all. Our mothers-

04:15

Speaker 1
Yes.

04:15

Speaker 2
... probably worked part-time, not full-time.

04:18

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

04:19

Speaker 2
Uh, if they worked, um, and, uh, as my mother did, she, but she didn't go back to work until she was, uh, we were in- well into primary school.

04:28

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

04:28

Speaker 2
Whereas I was in that generation where you had children and you put them in childcare and you went straight back to work. You know?

04:34

Speaker 1
Yeah.

04:34

Speaker 2
There was no... Um, and you ran a house, you, uh, cooked, you cleaned, you, you prepared everything for the kids, you, you did sports, you did, you did it all, you know?

04:46

Speaker 1
It is-

04:46

Speaker 2
And, and the husbands, you know, it's, it wasn't their fault, but, um, they weren't prepared for this either. You know?

04:54

Speaker 1
Well, we didn't let them...

04:54

Speaker 2
We were that, we were that... We didn't let them do it.

04:57

Speaker 1
We didn't let them.

04:57

Speaker 2
No, because my role as, as a wife and a mother was to look after everybody in the house.

05:02

Speaker 1
Yes.

05:02

Speaker 2
And I took that very seriously.

05:03

Speaker 1
Yes. And, you know, there was programming involved in that, because I remember back, you know, when my kids were little, seeing the Oprah Winfrey Show, and she was absolutely championing, championing the fact that we were now superwomen.

05:19

Speaker 2
Yes.

05:19

Speaker 1
And that we could multitask. There was even an ad on television with, I don't even know what the ad was for, all I remember was there was a woman in a suit looking immaculate, her hair done, the suit, the attire was professional. She had a shopping bag and her, her own bag over her shoulder, and a child on her hip on the side.

05:40

Speaker 2
Yes. Yes.

05:40

Speaker 1
And she was, you know, waltzing through the door with this great big smile on her face, and all I wanted to do was shoot her.

05:48

Speaker 2
(laughs) It was, it was that image of, "You can do it all, you can have it all."

05:52

Speaker 1
(laughs) .

05:52

Speaker 2
And, you know-

05:53

Speaker 1
Yes.

05:53

Speaker 2
... the harder and the faster you push, the more successful you'll be. And I guess that's the mentality I grew up with.

06:00

Speaker 1
Yep.

06:00

Speaker 2
Uh, was, was the harder I worked-

06:02

Speaker 1
Yeah.

06:02

Speaker 2
... um, and not only, um, was all that going on in my life, I also was holding down a corporate job, uh, a very stressful corporate job. And I was working full-time.

06:14

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

06:14

Speaker 2
And I gave that 200%.

06:15

Speaker 1
Yep.

06:15

Speaker 2
Because I was a- a- at the...... probably low to mid part of my career.

06:23

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

06:24

Speaker 2
And I was striving to achieve at work.

06:26

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

06:26

Speaker 2
So, not only was I- I had all this going on at home, but I was also striving to achieve at work.

06:31

Speaker 1
You were going to have everything.

06:32

Speaker 2
And there was such pressure to be successful, yeah.

06:35

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

06:35

Speaker 2
And- and what success looked like.

06:37

Speaker 1
Yes.

06:37

Speaker 2
And that's probably the next thing to discuss is, you know, what is successful? You know, in- in our eyes back then, that image of that woman that represented success for us-

06:48

Speaker 1
Well, before we- before we asked-

06:50

Speaker 2
... in that age, in our age group.

06:50

Speaker 1
Before we asked that question of what is success, just for people listening out there as well, what were some of the clues? Because if you can just kind of, you know, tag that and get somebody else out there thinking, what were some of the clues before you got that first wake-up call?

07:06

Speaker 2
So, absolute fatigue.

07:08

Speaker 1
Yep.

07:08

Speaker 2
I- I would come home and go straight into what I used to call my second job as a mother and a wife, and I probably would fall into bed at around 10:00 of a night.

07:22

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

07:22

Speaker 2
And I didn't have time to sit down and watch TV like the rest of the family. I was still putting loads of washing on and cleaning up the kitchen and all of that.

07:30

Speaker 1
Yep.

07:30

Speaker 2
And I'd basically just fall into bed. But then my mind would be so active.

07:35

Speaker 1
Yes.

07:35

Speaker 2
And I was so stressed-

07:36

Speaker 1
Yes.

07:36

Speaker 2
... that I couldn't actually sleep.

07:38

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

07:39

Speaker 2
So, then what started to happen was the glass of wine came into the equation. The one glass of wine came into the equation, then the second glass of wine came into the equation while I was cooking dinner, helped me relax.

07:52

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

07:52

Speaker 2
And that then became a nightly thing.

07:54

Speaker 1
Yep.

07:55

Speaker 2
Which was the self-medicating, I guess, you know, trying to actually bring yourself back down, so as you could-

08:01

Speaker 1
Well, you're running on fight and flight, aren't you? So-

08:04

Speaker 2
Absolutely. Absolutely.

08:04

Speaker 1
Like, you've got cortisol pumping through the body, you've got your-

08:07

Speaker 2
Yeah.

08:07

Speaker 1
... nervous system on alert the whole time, so the wine started to-

08:11

Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.

08:12

Speaker 1
... to wind it down.

08:13

Speaker 2
And then everything annoyed me. I, you know, I wanted everything to be perfect, because I was trying to uphold this perfect life. And that was probably another- another wake up, you know, another indicator.

08:26

Speaker 1
Hmm.

08:26

Speaker 2
Uh, that I wasn't a very nice person to be around.

08:30

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

08:30

Speaker 2
Um, you know, I- I was angry, I wasn't happy with my life, but I didn't realize how unhappy I was with my life, I guess. And I just-

08:38

Speaker 1
Because we don't stop, do we? We don't stop for a-

08:40

Speaker 2
No.

08:40

Speaker 1
... -

08:40

Speaker 2
To even think about it, or put ourself, uh, you know, even think about how I'm feeling about the whole thing. But I did know another indicator was each morning I'd wake up with dread. Absolute dread.

08:52

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

08:52

Speaker 2
Here we go again. Groundhi- hog day, uh, the alarm goes off, I'm about to do it all again. Ugh, exhausted before I even begin.

09:00

Speaker 1
Yep.

09:00

Speaker 2
Here we go, yes you can do it. Up you get, off you go. You know, it- it was just-

09:04

Speaker 1
Where were you getting that energy from?

09:07

Speaker 2
Um, probably coffee.

09:09

Speaker 1
Coffee? (laughs)

09:09

Speaker 2
You know? (laughs) So I'd wine, wine at night, and then I'd coffee, coffee in the morning to bring myself back up again.

09:20

Speaker 1
Yeah.

09:20

Speaker 2
So, you know, and- and looking back, if, you know, if I didn't have that wine, I probably wouldn't have needed so much coffee in the morning. (laughs) So, you know, it was just this vicious cycle that I was just stuck in.

09:31

Speaker 1
And did you-

09:32

Speaker 2
Uh, bad food. You know?

09:34

Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Did you get little elements of your health, though? Start like, were there headaches? Were there aches and pains?

09:38

Speaker 2
Yes. Migraines. I started to get really bad mi- tension headaches and migraines, um, to the point where I was hospitalized a couple of times because I couldn't stop vomiting.

09:47

Speaker 1
Wow.

09:48

Speaker 2
And- and it was all the stress and tension in- in my neck and shoulders.

09:52

Speaker 1
Yeah.

09:52

Speaker 2
That, um, you know, it was- it was just pe- you know, pent up. And actually, in my book I- I talk about I didn't realize that when I was sleeping, I was sleeping with gritted teeth and fists.

10:05

Speaker 1
Tension.

10:05

Speaker 2
I was- I was that stressed, yeah, that- that my body was not even able to relax while I was asleep.

10:11

Speaker 1
Ever?

10:11

Speaker 2
I would wake up-

10:12

Speaker 1
Ever?

10:12

Speaker 2
Yeah, ever.

10:12

Speaker 1
Awake or asleep? Wow.

10:14

Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

10:15

Speaker 1
And you just alluded to your book, and we haven't spoken about that, but everyone who's watching can see it in the background, but those who are listening, she's written a book, and it's fabulous. It's called What a Shitshow. And you'll understand why when she gets into the bowel cancer side of it.

10:29

Speaker 2
(laughs)

10:29

Speaker 1
But, you know, I have to say, when I first looked at that cover, that was confronting.

10:34

Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.

10:34

Speaker 1
That was a confronting cover. That was my first thought when I saw it. But as I kept looking at it, I wrote this down. Firstly, it was confronting, then it was bold. And then-

10:45

Speaker 2
Well, and- and empowering, hopefully.

10:47

Speaker 1
No, and then it was brave.

10:48

Speaker 2
(laughs)

10:49

Speaker 1
Then it was brave. Absolutely. So, okay. Okay, so the- your health started to deteriorate, and it was showing up. What do you do? I mean, this is- all of us can understand this. It's like, this stuff turns up, and we still think it's normal, don't we?

11:04

Speaker 2
Yeah, because it- it-

11:05

Speaker 1
It's just life.

11:06

Speaker 2
It actually happens slowly.

11:07

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

11:08

Speaker 2
So the deterioration in your health, it's not an overnight, all of a sudden, you know, you just can't function because your health is deteriorated. It happens over a long period of time.

11:18

Speaker 1
Yep.

11:18

Speaker 2
I was getting neck pain, and this was in the very first instance. I had a six-month-old baby and a two-year-old.

11:25

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

11:26

Speaker 2
And I was getting neck pain, and I started getting these sweats at nighttime.

11:32

Speaker 1
Yeah.

11:32

Speaker 2
And that was the first indicator. And, you know, just, uh, I didn't know why. It was summer as well, and I was thinking, "Oh, maybe I'm just hot." You know?

11:43

Speaker 1
Yep.

11:43

Speaker 2
You- you rationalize-

11:44

Speaker 1
Yes.

11:44

Speaker 2
... these things as well so that you can keep going. That's the other thing that I realized later on. And-

11:50

Speaker 1
What was it? What was the sweat? What- what d- what did you do?

11:53

Speaker 2
So, the night sweats were part of the symptoms of the Hodgkin's lymphoma-

11:57

Speaker 1
Gotcha.

11:57

Speaker 2
... that I was diagnosed with.

11:59

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

11:59

Speaker 2
Yeah. And I did go to the doctor's three times telling him that I was not feeling, uh, well.

12:06

Speaker 1
Yep.

12:06

Speaker 2
And I was tired. I was falling asleep on the couch at 4:00 in the afternoon, you know, on a weekend, which I never did. And I just was lacking energy. I wasn't- I wasn't... And I knew my body was not right.

12:20

Speaker 1
Yeah.

12:20

Speaker 2
So I went back a few times. They just put it, he just put it down to, um, the fact that I now had a toddler and- and a new baby, and sent me off for, uh, a massage at the physio (laughs) for my neck.

12:32

Speaker 1
(laughs)

12:33

Speaker 2
And it wasn't until the lump appeared in my- in my neck-

12:37

Speaker 1
Right.

12:37

Speaker 2
That, um, things got really serious, and that's when I was diagnosed.

12:41

Speaker 1
So this was the first, the first warning sign?

12:43

Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

12:45

Speaker 1
Uh-huh.

12:45

Speaker 2
So I had-

12:46

Speaker 1
Before-

12:46

Speaker 2
... probably the si-

12:46

Speaker 1
Sorry, before we start-

12:47

Speaker 2
Yeah?

12:47

Speaker 1
Before we start there, let's go back to what is success.

12:52

Speaker 2
Okay. What is, what did I think success was back then, or what, what, what I, what do I define success as now?

12:59

Speaker 1
Before and after. Before and after, yeah.

13:01

Speaker 2
Okay.

13:02

Speaker 1
Yes.

13:02

Speaker 2
So back then, I thought success was showing everyone how hard you worked. You know, and, and also, um, earnings, financial.

13:15

Speaker 1
Yep. Achievements, achievements.

13:15

Speaker 2
Um, how much you could earn. Achievements, yep, goals.

13:19

Speaker 1
Yeah.

13:19

Speaker 2
Um, having status as well in a job role. Uh, having the house, the car, the perfect family, the, you know, to me, that depicted... And it was all about what everyone else thought.

13:32

Speaker 1
Yeah.

13:33

Speaker 2
And what everyone else thought.

13:35

Speaker 1
How do I appear to the world? When they look at me-

13:37

Speaker 2
Yes.

13:37

Speaker 1
... and my life, what do they see?

13:40

Speaker 2
Yeah. Do they see that I'm successful?

13:41

Speaker 1
It's materialism and consumerism at best, isn't it?

13:44

Speaker 2
It is.

13:44

Speaker 1
And that, but we've al-

13:45

Speaker 2
Yeah, and we're fed it all the time.

13:46

Speaker 1
Yeah, everybody got caught up in that model, and there's still hundreds and thousands and millions of people caught up in that model that-

13:52

Speaker 2
Especially now with social media.

13:54

Speaker 1
That's how you have a happy life.

13:56

Speaker 2
Yes, yes.

13:59

Speaker 1
And it's not.

14:01

Speaker 2
So, success now, for me (laughs) looks like, uh, the fact that I've had the courage to change everything in my life. And success for me is living by the beach, getting to put my feet in the sand every day, uh, being there for the people that mean the most to me.

14:24

Speaker 1
Mm.

14:25

Speaker 2
And having financial freedom and, and no pressure and no stress in my life, which couldn't be more reverse to, um-

14:35

Speaker 1
Yeah.

14:35

Speaker 2
... to how I was. And also, um, living more minimalistic, recycle, you know-

14:42

Speaker 1
I love.

14:42

Speaker 2
I, I, I don't, I don't, I, I don't value material things the way I used to.

14:47

Speaker 1
Mm.

14:47

Speaker 2
Th- there's some, some information on that in the book on how I've changed some of that around.

14:52

Speaker 1
Yes.

14:53

Speaker 2
And yeah, I really live a, a quite a minimal life, but a really happy life. It, it's-

14:57

Speaker 1
And there's something in that. You, you know, you're turned it 180 degrees inside out and upside down.

15:05

Speaker 2
Yeah.

15:05

Speaker 1
Because what we're taught to live is not natural.

15:09

Speaker 2
That's right, yeah.

15:10

Speaker 1
It's not a natural way. And our whole body kind of feeds back to us, doesn't it? Saying, you know, "Stop doing this, stop doing this."

15:19

Speaker 2
Yes. So happiness and success I think are ali- uh, go hand in hand, but they're an inside job. They come from within. It's-

15:27

Speaker 1
I love that.

15:28

Speaker 2
... it's not something-

15:29

Speaker 1
Yes.

15:29

Speaker 2
... it's not something exterior, and it's not about other people. It's about how you feel about yourself. And you, you know, you can be the poorest person in the world or the, the richest person in the world, but, uh, uh, it's, you know, you define your own success.

15:44

Speaker 1
Mm. It is an inside job. Yep.

15:47

Speaker 2
Mm.

15:47

Speaker 1
But, you know, aren't we trained to look outside?

15:53

Speaker 2
Absolutely, absolutely.

15:55

Speaker 1
At everything?

15:56

Speaker 2
Yes.

15:57

Speaker 1
So we follow the model. We follow the model of the tribe and the greater, the greater world around us.

16:03

Speaker 2
Yeah.

16:03

Speaker 1
We do what everybody else is doing, 'cause when we look at everybody else, they all look happy. And like you said, social media, they're posting up the events and the lunches and the dinners and the surprises-

16:13

Speaker 2
Yeah.

16:13

Speaker 1
... and all that. And it looks like they're just snapshots of, of... And they, they don't give you any insight whatsoever into how miserable or whatever people are.

16:24

Speaker 2
That's exactly right. And, and above all, I think, uh, success is being healthy, and, and being fit and healthy, because it's the one thing money can't buy. And it's the one thing that you have complete control over. Your-

16:39

Speaker 1
Yep.

16:39

Speaker 2
... you know, yourself, that you need to-

16:40

Speaker 1
Yep.

16:40

Speaker 2
... you know, you have to own.

16:42

Speaker 1
Mm. I think you're part of a whole movement, right, that is happening worldwide, where everyone's starting to understand. But it's funny that it doesn't happen until you're in your 40s or your 50s where people start to look back and reevaluate life and go, "I don't really like who I've become," or, "I don't really, you know, enjoy what I'm doing." So they start to reset. And you said it before, it's, it's a simple life.

17:10

Speaker 2
Yes.

17:10

Speaker 1
Naturally, all we want are very simple things.

17:15

Speaker 2
It is, they are, yes, yes.

17:18

Speaker 1
So how did you start doing that? Simplifying your life?

17:23

Speaker 2
Well, I had to strip it all back. (laughs)

17:26

Speaker 1
And what does that mean? What does it-

17:27

Speaker 2
Uh, and I left a lot of people and a lot of things behind me in my wake.

17:32

Speaker 1
Mm.

17:32

Speaker 2
And I basically recalibrated and started again and looked within. And, uh, I had to look at myself and say to myself, "You know, Nicole, if you want to be here in, in another 5 or 10 years-"

17:48

Speaker 1
On this planet.

17:49

Speaker 2
"... there's things in" Yeah. "There's things in your life that you can no longer do. You cannot keep living this way." And, and I even, up until after the second diagnosis, I still reverted back to some of those behaviors.

18:01

Speaker 1
Hm.

18:01

Speaker 2
And I... Yeah, it still took probably another 12 months after that to really re- redesign everything.

18:12

Speaker 1
Yep.

18:12

Speaker 2
And, uh, it meant I needed to be alone and take time out, away from everything, including my children. Um, you know-

18:23

Speaker 1
Right.

18:23

Speaker 2
... everything that was dependent on me and everything I was dependent on. And I needed to just really, really look at what were the values that I now needed to live and, and what, what did I need to change to make that happen?

18:36

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm. Where did that insight come from?

18:40

Speaker 2
Uh, within, actually. (laughs) Light bulb moment.

18:44

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

18:44

Speaker 2
I think the fear of, the fear of dying, if I'm completely honest-

18:47

Speaker 1
Yes.

18:47

Speaker 2
... because I had, uh, post the last cancer, um, treatment, I also had a, a diabetes diagnosis. And I think that was the, the kicker for me, because I didn't want to go on more medication and my body had been through so much-

19:05

Speaker 1
Yep.

19:06

Speaker 2
... that I think that was, that was the real turning point for me, was, was that post, you know, that's, that's a whole another thing that nobody talks about, is all the, the offshoot, um, things that happen to you medically as well after-

19:22

Speaker 1
Yes, yes.

19:22

Speaker 2
... after treatment.

19:23

Speaker 1
Yes.

19:23

Speaker 2
So yeah, um-

19:25

Speaker 1
I hear you. I hear you. Everybody hears about the ride, but they don't hear about what the ride's really all about and what the implications are of the medications and the treatments that you're on, because they all have side effects, right?

19:37

Speaker 2
Yeah. And you never get off the ride. The ride, the ride's there. Like, I- I'm still riding.

19:43

Speaker 1
(laughs)

19:43

Speaker 2
And I will be for the rest of my life.

19:45

Speaker 1
Yeah.

19:45

Speaker 2
The tests, the, the, you know, the anxiety over the next scan, the next test, the next, you know, you-

19:52

Speaker 1
Oh my gosh.

19:52

Speaker 2
... you never actually, it never leaves you. It's something that nobody really talks about, and it's, it, it's something that we live with, um, you know, we live in six-month blocks basically.

20:04

Speaker 1
Daily. In the back-

20:05

Speaker 2
So it's like-

20:05

Speaker 1
... just sitting in the back of your mind.

20:07

Speaker 2
Yeah.

20:08

Speaker 1
Yeah.

20:08

Speaker 2
Yeah.

20:08

Speaker 1
Yeah.

20:08

Speaker 2
Yeah.

20:09

Speaker 1
Yeah, you're right, nobody talks about this. I mean, I-

20:12

Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.

20:12

Speaker 1
... I even know this was just something myself when I had some surgery, it was breast reduction surgery, right, 14 years ago or something. And I remember just, you know, doing my due diligence and all the rest of it, so that was a choice for me at the time. But, uh, coming out the other side, it's like, nobody tells you what's involved. Nobody tells you-

20:33

Speaker 2
That's right.

20:34

Speaker 1
... how critical it is, how mind-bending it is, how painful it is, what the recovery is, and what it means for the rest of your life. And that was by choice.

20:43

Speaker 2
Yes.

20:43

Speaker 1
Right?

20:44

Speaker 2
That's right, yeah.

20:44

Speaker 1
If you didn't have a chance-

20:45

Speaker 2
Whereas we don't get it... Yeah, I, I didn't have a choice in that.

20:47

Speaker 1
... to go, "Hey, get ready for this," right, "prepare for this," so you get the first tap on the shoulder, right? So how many years ago was that?

20:56

Speaker 2
So, it was 15 years prior to my bowel cancer diagnosis.

21:01

Speaker 1
Okay.

21:02

Speaker 2
So fif- 15 years between drinks. And so-

21:05

Speaker 1
Fif- And what did you get diagnosed of first up?

21:08

Speaker 2
Hodgkin's lymphoma.

21:09

Speaker 1
Hodgkin's lymphoma. Okay. So then you had treatment for that? Was that chemo or radiation therapy?

21:14

Speaker 2
Yeah, it was chemo. It was intense chemo. It's a young person's cancer, and it-

21:19

Speaker 1
Yep.

21:20

Speaker 2
Because you're young, they're able to hit you harder with the chemo treatment.

21:24

Speaker 1
Yeah.

21:24

Speaker 2
And let me tell you, that was 20 years ago now, and the chemo treatment was hor- horrendous back then. It was not what it is now.

21:33

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

21:33

Speaker 2
So having gone through it again 15 years later, there was a marked difference. It was still horrible and awful, but-

21:39

Speaker 1
Yes, yeah.

21:39

Speaker 2
... it, it was, uh, a, a lot, a lot different.

21:42

Speaker 1
Okay.

21:43

Speaker 2
Um, yeah.

21:44

Speaker 1
So 15 years later, you get hit. What was the second diagnosis?

21:48

Speaker 2
So frighteningly, I had a little pain in the side of my stomach, and it was niggling. I didn't think much of it once again. You know, I'd made some changes in my life prior, you know, post the other cancer, but slowly-

22:03

Speaker 1
Yep.

22:03

Speaker 2
... slowly, I got sucked back into the corporate world, chasing money again. I reverted back to, you know, um, you know, trying to pay-

22:10

Speaker 1
Standard behavior.

22:11

Speaker 2
... trying to pay my house off, all that sort of thing. By this stage, I'd navigated a divorce as well and was a single mum of two teenagers.

22:18

Speaker 1
Gosh.

22:18

Speaker 2
Big financial commitments. I'd bought a house by myself. I was working two jobs. Um, I had a home hairdressing salon, so I was running that on the weekends, and I was working my corporate job during the week.

22:31

Speaker 1
Mm.

22:32

Speaker 2
And burning the candle, again, thinking I could do it all.

22:36

Speaker 1
Yep.

22:37

Speaker 2
Um, pro- probably so that my children's lives didn't change too much. (laughs) That was my, you know, my driving factor.

22:44

Speaker 1
Keep the stability and the security for your children.

22:46

Speaker 2
That's exactly right, yes. Yes. And, um, yeah, so got pulled back into that. And then on top of that, decided that I'd started a long-distance relationship with someone that lived three hours away (laughs) from me. So add the travel time every-

23:02

Speaker 1
Wow.

23:02

Speaker 2
... every couple of weeks up and back. Um-

23:04

Speaker 1
Don't do anything easy. No, no, no.

23:06

Speaker 2
Oh, I don't do anything easy. No, no, no.

23:09

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

23:09

Speaker 2
Um, anyway, so yeah, and, and then I was at work one day, and this really, um, the pain got me. And one of my work colleagues actually, I attribute him to saving my life. He said, "Oh, it's quiet today, Nicki." He said, "Why don't you just go and get that checked out? It's not normal."

23:25

Speaker 1
Right.

23:26

Speaker 2
And I said, "Oh, okay." Normally I'd say, "No, no, no." And I did. I, I, I made a doctor's appointment. I got in miraculously, and, and I went in, and, um, then it sort of began, scans and, and things. And she just even at that point said, "Oh, I'm really not too sure what it is," after a CT scan. She said, "There's a bit of a thickening of your bowel there. I'm just going to send you off, um, for a colonoscopy."

23:50

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

23:50

Speaker 2
And I was actually leaving to go away on holidays the next day after the colonoscopy. Bags were packed, everything was happening. And went in on the Friday for the colonoscopy, and I woke up out of the colonoscopy and the surgeon was sitting on the bed, and he said, "Nicole, you've got bowel cancer." He said, "You're not going anywhere."

24:06

Speaker 1
Right.

24:07

Speaker 2
Mm.

24:08

Speaker 1
Like smack between your eyes.

24:10

Speaker 2
Smack between my eyes, yeah.

24:12

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

24:12

Speaker 2
Three months. And basically straightaway they told me I was going to have, uh, a stoma put in, because I was three days away from being completely blocked and an emergency case-

24:21

Speaker 1
Please tell everybody who doesn't know what a stoma is.

24:23

Speaker 2
Uh, it is basically, um, you go to the toilet on the outside of your body, uh, through your stomach. They, they pull a piece of bowel through your stomach, and you wear a bag over the top of it to collect all the waste instead of-

24:35

Speaker 1
But the bowel's such an incredibly long piece of our equipment.

24:39

Speaker 2
It is, yes.

24:40

Speaker 1
Couldn't they just join a couple of pieces together?

24:42

Speaker 2
In some cases, if the cancers are small, they can cut it out and rejoin you-

24:47

Speaker 1
Okay.

24:47

Speaker 2
... and there's no need to have the stoma and the ostomy bag. But in my case, um, I was later to find out that I was actually riddled with polyps that could-

24:57

Speaker 1
Right.

24:57

Speaker 2
... turn cancerous. I had cancer in two places.

25:00

Speaker 1
Okay.

25:01

Speaker 2
And he said to me, "You've got a choice to make." He said, "I can cut both of them out and rejoin you." He said, "I'll see you in four or five years." And he said, "It probably won't be this nice." He said, because by the time most people arrive on his operating table, he said, "It's spread liver and lungs as well."

25:18

Speaker 1
Okay, so get it now or come back again.

25:21

Speaker 2
Yeah.

25:21

Speaker 1
And maybe get-

25:22

Speaker 2
So, he said-

25:23

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

25:23

Speaker 2
... "Basically, I'm going to remove your whole bowel." So I had a complete bowel resection, my whole-

25:27

Speaker 1
Okay.

25:27

Speaker 2
... large bowel has been removed. I live with just my small bowel and a permanent ostomy bag.

25:33

Speaker 1
Gotcha. Gotcha. So that's what we're seeing in the picture on your book-

25:37

Speaker 2
Yes.

25:37

Speaker 1
... as well, on the outside of you looking like high heels and the whole-

25:41

Speaker 2
(laughs)

25:42

Speaker 1
... I love it. I just love it. Okay, so how many years ago was that? Did it-

25:46

Speaker 2
So that was five years ago, actually.

25:49

Speaker 1
Five?

25:49

Speaker 2
In March.

25:50

Speaker 1
Yeah.

25:50

Speaker 2
Yes. Yes.

25:51

Speaker 1
Yeah. So your whole world gets turned upside down and inside out. And isn't it interesting that crisis, no matter what form it comes into, comes in, it does push you inside, doesn't it? It pushes you inside, so you know, the whole time you're running and running and doing corporate and doing a million things, and you know, not taking time to just be quiet and relax, which is usually when we kind of can tune in.

26:15

Speaker 1
All of a sudden-

26:16

Speaker 2
Yeah.

26:16

Speaker 1
... you have to.

26:19

Speaker 2
Well, yes, to a point, and I was lying in a hospital bed and I'd just been told all of this, but you know, your life outside of that hospital bed doesn't stop straight away.

26:29

Speaker 1
No.

26:29

Speaker 2
Uh, I was... Basically, I had to go on sick leave, I had to cancel a holiday that I (laughs) I was, I had. I had a child on school camp that day that needed to be picked up that night.

26:44

Speaker 1
Yep. Yep.

26:44

Speaker 2
I ha- I had, um, I was in the middle of refinancing my home, so I had the bank calling me, um, and I had six to eight weeks worth of, uh, hairdressing clients booked in. Uh, so you know, there was a lot of work to be done from that hospital bed once that diagnosis was given. So you know, you still go-

27:06

Speaker 1
Yeah, like you say, right.

27:06

Speaker 2
... into damage control. It, it's, it's not, um, it's not instant-

27:09

Speaker 1
Oh, it definitely is, yeah.

27:09

Speaker 2
... "Oh, I just lay down and let's, let's get this sorted out."

27:12

Speaker 1
And you know, this isn't-

27:13

Speaker 2
(laughs)

27:13

Speaker 1
... this is the part that people don't understand either about this journey, right? It's like, you know, have you got family? If you haven't got family, have you got friends? If you haven't got friends... And it becomes a defining moment to find who's there for you, and who's not.

27:26

Speaker 2
Absolutely.

27:27

Speaker 1
Because, you know, I watched my nephew and my sister go through this, like when he was 12 years old.

27:33

Speaker 2
Yeah.

27:33

Speaker 1
And you know, and, and people don't... I mean, because of their ignorance and probably fear as well, they don't know what to do, so they do nothing.

27:42

Speaker 2
Yeah, or they don't say anything, or they just don't reach out. And I think, um, I was very fortunate to have a- an amazing support network around me at the time.

27:53

Speaker 1
Good.

27:53

Speaker 2
And I have such gratefulness in my heart for that.

27:56

Speaker 1
Yep.

27:57

Speaker 2
However, it, it impacts everybody around you as well, and in some ways, they don't cope as well as you cope because it's happening to you and everything's explained to you, but they're watching you go through this-

28:11

Speaker 1
Yeah, mm-hmm.

28:11

Speaker 2
... and they feel helpless and, and they can't help. Yeah. And I describe that, uh, um, in my book about... As, as the people around the people, and who's caring for the people around the people?

28:22

Speaker 1
So what would you say to somebody out there now that is watching this happen to a loved one or a friend or something? What would you encourage them to do?

28:31

Speaker 2
Uh, talk about it. Communicate. Communication, connection-

28:35

Speaker 1
So even talk about their shortcomings and how they're afraid, or... Because you know, you sort of think that the other person's going through a hell of a lot of stuff, so you don't want to come out and go, "Well, actually, I'm having a hard time here." Watch them.

28:46

Speaker 2
Yes. That's exactly right, but they can verbalize that.

28:49

Speaker 1
Right.

28:49

Speaker 2
And you'd be surprised how resilient and how, uh, strong the person is-

28:55

Speaker 1
Going through it.

28:56

Speaker 2
... going through it, and they usually can handle it because it, it's, it's different. It's different for us than, than just standing on the sidelines feeling helpless. You know, we're going through it.

29:09

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

29:09

Speaker 2
And we're also, we're also given all the information, and sometimes the people around you are not privy to a lot of that information.

29:17

Speaker 1
Yeah.

29:17

Speaker 2
So ask details, you know?

29:19

Speaker 1
Yes.

29:19

Speaker 2
Talk about it, because talking and communicating is healing.

29:23

Speaker 1
Yep.

29:23

Speaker 2
All, all round.

29:25

Speaker 1
Yep.

29:25

Speaker 2
Yeah.

29:26

Speaker 1
I agree. I agree. And even, um, yeah, what you're saying just now is like having those conversations, getting that information because otherwise the mind has sort of got nothing to process or nothing to hold onto.

29:42

Speaker 2
Yeah.

29:42

Speaker 1
And that leads... That's ignorance. That's ignorance, and, and that's an awful feeling as well. So yeah, they need-

29:48

Speaker 2
And I think the worst thing someone can actually say to you is, "I'm here if you need me," because you, if you're a proud person like I am, there's no way you're going to reach out and say, "Hey, I need help."

29:59

Speaker 1
Mm. Mm-hmm.

30:00

Speaker 2
Uh, make a meal. (laughs)

30:03

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

30:03

Speaker 2
Offer dry-

30:04

Speaker 1
But has that changed?

30:05

Speaker 2
Offer, uh-

30:05

Speaker 1
Has that changed for you?

30:06

Speaker 2
It has changed, yes.

30:06

Speaker 1
Yes.

30:07

Speaker 2
I- I've learnt to say thank you.

30:09

Speaker 1
Yes.

30:09

Speaker 2
I've learnt to say thank you, yeah, and, and it's-

30:11

Speaker 1
I think we're the creators of our own world, right? And if we want to receive, then we, we are, we can ask. We can ask.

30:17

Speaker 2
We can, yes.

30:18

Speaker 1
Yeah. We can-

30:19

Speaker 2
And ask people for help, you know?

30:20

Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.

30:20

Speaker 2
If you're lying there and you're in that situation, make them feel useful or, you know, because they're sort of looking for, for what they can do to help you.

30:27

Speaker 1
Some sort of direction, some sort of-

30:30

Speaker 2
Yeah.

30:30

Speaker 1
... guidance. Yeah, yeah, 'cause they don't know what to do. Yes, I agree. Wow.

30:34

Speaker 2
Yes.

30:34

Speaker 1
Wow. So that's five years ago, right?

30:37

Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.

30:37

Speaker 1
So how long ago did you write the book?

30:40

Speaker 2
Uh, October, so not even 12 months ago.

30:43

Speaker 1
October last year?

30:44

Speaker 2
Yes. Yes, it was released.

30:46

Speaker 1
It's brand new.

30:47

Speaker 2
Yes.

30:47

Speaker 1
It's brand new.

30:47

Speaker 2
It's brand new.

30:48

Speaker 1
Wow.

30:48

Speaker 2
(laughs)

30:49

Speaker 1
Wow. What a journey that must have been.

30:51

Speaker 2
It was. And I say that I, I had it in my head while I was recovering, that I wanted to write the book.

30:59

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

30:59

Speaker 2
And I think I'm glad I waited the time to write it, because I think it would have been a very different book. There was a lot of feelings and emotions and things that I hadn't dealt with myself, and also having come so far with changing so much of my life, you know, if I had of written it 12 months out, it wouldn't have been the book-

31:18

Speaker 1
Yeah.

31:18

Speaker 2
... that I've written now. I've written it with love for everyone around me, for everything-

31:23

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

31:23

Speaker 2
... every part of it that, that I've, um ... everything that's gone into it has been written with love, so it's-

31:31

Speaker 1
Yep.

31:31

Speaker 2
... it's very different.

31:31

Speaker 1
From a very different perspective, right?

31:34

Speaker 2
Yes, yes.

31:35

Speaker 1
Not in it, but looking at it.

31:38

Speaker 2
That's exactly right.

31:39

Speaker 1
For it?

31:39

Speaker 2
Yeah.

31:40

Speaker 1
Yeah.

31:40

Speaker 2
Yeah.

31:40

Speaker 1
Yes.

31:40

Speaker 2
And I needed to be there to, to be able to ... I, I feel I've written it as a tool for other people to help other people, and I think it would have been a very different book had I have not done, done it in that way, so-

31:54

Speaker 1
You're doing it with that, that objectivity, looking back at it. Yeah.

31:58

Speaker 2
Yes. Yes.

31:59

Speaker 1
Wow. Wh- where did you get your strength from?

32:05

Speaker 2
Oh, I just think, uh ... I always say to my daughter, we come from a very long line of very strong women.

32:11

Speaker 1
(laughs)

32:13

Speaker 2
(laughs) And that is the truth. My grandmother, you know, went through the Depression, grew up very poor, and still made a great life for herself.

32:20

Speaker 1
Yep.

32:21

Speaker 2
And was a great example of that, as is my mother. And I just think i- i- at times like these, you, you don't ... you can't rely on anyone else. You're the only person that can get you through it, so if you don't rise, um, the alternative's not great. (laughs)

32:37

Speaker 1
Well, that's-

32:38

Speaker 2
So ... (laughs)

32:39

Speaker 1
... incredibly important thing to say, right? Because, you know, otherwise you can get caught up in the why me, and you know, and why-

32:48

Speaker 2
Yeah.

32:48

Speaker 1
... isn't everybody ... I- it's kinda like a victim mode, isn't it?

32:51

Speaker 2
Absolutely.

32:51

Speaker 1
It's like my, you know-

32:53

Speaker 2
Yeah.

32:53

Speaker 1
I mean, I hate to kind of say it that way. I'm, I'm a little ... I was a little reluctant, but it's like, you can either play the victim in here and go-

33:00

Speaker 2
Yeah.

33:00

Speaker 1
"Why is this happening to me?" And you know, and you know, you know, uh, you know, life's throwing me a curveball, but what would that do to your recovery as opposed to, "I've just gotta get this done, and I've gotta sort it out"?

33:15

Speaker 2
The way I look at that too is you can choose to become the illness and have it consume you completely-

33:21

Speaker 1
That's a bloody good way of saying it.

33:23

Speaker 2
... or, or I say ... the way I say it is, it's ... the illness is something I had. It's not who I am.

33:32

Speaker 1
Yep. Doesn't define you.

33:34

Speaker 2
Yeah.

33:35

Speaker 1
That's a great-

33:36

Speaker 2
Yeah.

33:36

Speaker 1
... way to put it.

33:37

Speaker 2
I'm still me, and the illness is, was something that I had. I had-

33:42

Speaker 1
And you would've seen-

33:42

Speaker 2
I don't ... I didn't wanna become the illness.

33:44

Speaker 1
You would've seen others around you handling it differently in that other -

33:47

Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah.

33:50

Speaker 1
Wow.

33:51

Speaker 2
Yeah. And the other thing that you're not prepared for either, going through the, the treatment side of things, just when you said that, um, made me think there, there are people around me that I went through treatment with that didn't make it. In fact, I think I'm one of two-

34:09

Speaker 1
Right. Right, right, right.

34:09

Speaker 2
... that I went through. So there's a whole other element there of grief and loss as well-

34:13

Speaker 1
Oh, gosh, yeah.

34:13

Speaker 2
... because these people become your friends, you know-

34:16

Speaker 1
Yes.

34:16

Speaker 2
... your allies within, within this awful world that you're thrown into.

34:21

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

34:21

Speaker 2
Uh, and they're probably not people that you'd normally be friendly with or, or you know, whatever, but th- and they're-

34:27

Speaker 1
Yeah.

34:27

Speaker 2
... from all walks of life, but each time you go in and have that session, uh, they're there, you know, and then slowly one by one, they're not there. And it ... you know, that, that's, that's a whole nother side of the mental, uh, mental part of this that, that people have to deal with, and, and a lot of people don't think about that too, that you're in hospital with a lot of people-

34:49

Speaker 1
They don't talk about it at all.

34:50

Speaker 2
... yeah. I was in hospital with a lot of pancreatic, uh, cancer, um-

34:54

Speaker 1
Right.

34:55

Speaker 2
... patients and we all know that's not a very nice form of cancer and-

35:00

Speaker 1
And you know, you're touching on something I think that is really important. I- in our society, we don't talk about death.

35:07

Speaker 2
No.

35:07

Speaker 1
In our society, we don't talk about dying. Um-

35:11

Speaker 2
Yeah.

35:11

Speaker 1
... you know? I worked in aged care, and I remember the first time someone died. Like, it was confronting. It was mentally, emotionally, physically, just on all levels, but the i- cr- the interesting thing was it's like then when the next one passed away and when the next one passed away, it's like your focus was how do I present the body? How do I look after the body? How do I present it for when the families are coming in? How do I give it some dignity and ... You know, you start learning another way of looking at death and what death's all about, and it's like it's preparing you.

35:45

Speaker 2
Yes.

35:45

Speaker 1
It's preparing you to be okay, right?

35:49

Speaker 2
Yes.

35:50

Speaker 1
What about you? What was it doing for you? There's a blessing in everything. I mean, it's-

35:54

Speaker 2
Well, I guess at the time, I didn't probably see it as a blessing.

35:58

Speaker 1
Oh. (laughs)

35:58

Speaker 2
I was probably ... it, it probably increased my fear and anxiety-

36:02

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

36:02

Speaker 2
... if, if nothing else because was I-

36:04

Speaker 1
Yep.

36:04

Speaker 2
... going to be the next one?

36:05

Speaker 1
Yeah.

36:05

Speaker 2
You know? Uh, and, and also, just trying to be positive and hopeful for everyone else, so I, I would do things, like some of the patients that I was in hospital with, I would go in ... 'cause I was physically a lot more, um, capable than a lot of them too were bedridden and, you know, some of these women that, and men that I was having, uh, chemo with, we were doing exercise and that too, doing laps around the hospital because that was supposed to help, you know, with your chemo and everything. So there was one gentleman next door, and him and I used to hang laps together with our IV poles, you know?

36:43

Speaker 2
So (laughs) I-

36:43

Speaker 1
Two points.

36:44

Speaker 2
And, and, and then, and then there was a couple of other ladies in, in the afternoon, even if I didn't feel like it sometimes, I would take my cup of tea in and have my cup of tea with, with them in their room or-

36:55

Speaker 1
Yep.

36:55

Speaker 2
... you know, just, just to try and create a little bit more, um-

36:59

Speaker 1
Positivity?

37:00

Speaker 2
... something different. Yeah, positivity in-

37:02

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

37:02

Speaker 2
... in it all, so-

37:03

Speaker 1
So do you think that... I'm thinking now, it's like, is the system working for us, you know? I mean, if you had a choice... And what I'm hearing is, um, it'd be nicer if it was more of a private kind of thing you were going through, so you didn't have to see some of the other hardships and things that people were going through.

37:22

Speaker 2
Oh, but then that could be a really lonely process too. It- it's... I think it's- it's a double-edged sword, really.

37:27

Speaker 1
Yeah.

37:27

Speaker 2
You know, it, um... I think, at the time, you need people around you that are, you know, experiencing similar things.

37:35

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

37:35

Speaker 2
And, um, which sort of brings me to some of the work that I'm doing now post, uh, with other- other patients and people.

37:42

Speaker 1
Yeah, please. I mean, I would-

37:44

Speaker 2
And-

37:44

Speaker 1
Yeah, talk about that.

37:44

Speaker 2
Um, one of the... I do, um, some peer support work wi- through Coloplast. I'm an ambassador for them. Uh, they are the bag company, the company that makes the bags and all of the, um, implements that go with those, all the sprays and creams and all sorts of things that we use.

38:03

Speaker 1
Right.

38:03

Speaker 2
And I am regularly involved with patients one-to-one on the phone.

38:08

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

38:09

Speaker 2
Doing peer support with people who've just received an ostomy bag or might be a few months in, they might be having a few problems, just to talk to someone. But the number one-

38:17

Speaker 1
So tell me, is that someone that you wanted, right? Have you become what you wanted along the way?

38:23

Speaker 2
No, no, I- I have, uh... (laughs) Unfortunately, the- the worst thing that happened in my life has become my- my purpose now and my life's work. (laughs)

38:33

Speaker 1
But what I'm saying-

38:34

Speaker 2
And- and I'm-

38:34

Speaker 1
It's all-

38:34

Speaker 2
And I'm loving every minute of it because I'm helping other people. And-

38:37

Speaker 1
What I'm saying is, the ambassador, being the ambassador, is that what you wanted and it was missing?

38:43

Speaker 2
Yes, so I describe it as, you go into hospital and, uh, you know, the doctors and- and everyone's wonderful and they're fantastic in hospital. And you have a nurse that's assigned to you when you have an ostomy bag.

38:56

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

38:56

Speaker 2
But they're very, very busy with the patients in the hospital. Once you leave the hospital-

39:01

Speaker 1
Yep.

39:01

Speaker 2
... it's like a mechanic, they fix the car and then they give it back to you.

39:05

Speaker 1
Yep.

39:05

Speaker 2
And you basically go in and you get fixed and you come back out into that life that made you sick maybe. (laughs)

39:13

Speaker 1
And but there's nowhere to care?

39:15

Speaker 2
Or a- and there's- there's not a lot of... There's huge mental impact, physical-

39:21

Speaker 1
Mm.

39:21

Speaker 2
... you know, dysmorphia because you now... Your body is not the same.

39:25

Speaker 1
Yep.

39:26

Speaker 2
Uh, you're fatigued, you... You know, you've got aftereffects of things.

39:30

Speaker 1
Yeah.

39:30

Speaker 2
Um, diet, you know, all of those things. And it's all supported in hospital and you're given booklets and leaflets and all sorts of things on how to get help and all the rest of it. Uh, but it- it's y- it's up to you to drive that then and you're not always capable of doing that afterwards.

39:51

Speaker 1
Yes. Yes.

39:51

Speaker 2
So this is where my passion lies and where-

39:54

Speaker 1
Yes.

39:54

Speaker 2
... my work is starting to begin. And I'm hoping-

39:56

Speaker 1
So they've got a road to walk, right? And they're left to their own devices on how they're going to walk it.

40:02

Speaker 2
Yes, yes.

40:02

Speaker 1
So you've come along going, "I can guide you."

40:05

Speaker 2
And we are never the same person coming out the other side-

40:08

Speaker 1
No.

40:08

Speaker 2
... as what we were going in. We're never going to be.

40:11

Speaker 1
Yep.

40:11

Speaker 2
And that is really hard for family and friends to understand too. You know, what I've been through, um, you know, some people have not come along on that journey. And that, part of that was my choice and- and part of that is other people's choice as well because I'm not the person I was afterwards.

40:30

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

40:31

Speaker 2
Uh, and I can never be that person again because it's changed me forever. It's changed the way I look at things that... Like I said, I've done work on my- my values, my, you know, all of those things.

40:40

Speaker 1
I was just about to say that. It rearranges your values completely, doesn't it?

40:44

Speaker 2
Yes, and your priorities and what a- and what living a good life looks like for you.

40:48

Speaker 1
Yes, yes.

40:49

Speaker 2
Yeah.

40:49

Speaker 1
Simple, simple, simple, please. (laughs)

40:53

Speaker 2
Yeah.

40:53

Speaker 1
And less things, less stuff, right?

40:55

Speaker 2
But I think the biggest thing is, what did you learn from the life that you were living before?

41:01

Speaker 1
How did you slow down?

41:05

Speaker 2
I did a lot of work, a lot of meditation.

41:08

Speaker 1
Yeah.

41:09

Speaker 2
And actually during my treatment recovery, I have studied and- and I've become a meditation teacher.

41:15

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

41:16

Speaker 2
And a holistic counselor as well.

41:18

Speaker 1
Yep.

41:20

Speaker 2
And not that professionally I've actually done much with that at the moment, but it's in the works. (laughs) And it's only one part of- of recovery, but it's a very valuable part of recovery. But-

41:32

Speaker 1
Well, you said in your- in your, like, in your little announcement for your book that life isn't linear, and that's exactly what you're talking about now. You've got a piece of what the- the future is, little pieces of what's going to line up-

41:44

Speaker 2
Yes.

41:44

Speaker 1
... 'cause it doesn't happen in a linear fashion, does it?

41:47

Speaker 2
And what works for me might not work for someone else.

41:50

Speaker 1
Yeah.

41:50

Speaker 2
And that's why it's a mult- it- it's a multitude of things all put together and you've got to choose from that what works for you.

41:57

Speaker 1
Yes.

41:58

Speaker 2
So, uh, I- I'm not- I'm not one that actually preaches and says, "Oh, just because I changed my life and did this, that's going to work for you." No.

42:06

Speaker 1
Yeah.

42:06

Speaker 2
It depends. You know, everybody's di-

42:07

Speaker 1
You got to meet them where they're at.

42:09

Speaker 2
Everybody's different, yeah, yeah.

42:10

Speaker 1
Meet somebody where they're at, absolutely.

42:13

Speaker 2
Absolutely, yeah.

42:13

Speaker 1
Oh my gosh. Like, there's this compassion and this insight in you, which is just beautiful.

42:19

Speaker 2
Thank you.

42:19

Speaker 1
And that's what people need, don't they, walking along this path?

42:22

Speaker 2
Yeah. So I'm now doing, uh, a fair bit of work with, um... I'm- I'm on a consumer advocacy board for Wounds Australia because technically what I have is a permanent wound that I care for daily.

42:36

Speaker 1
Right, okay.

42:38

Speaker 2
And I am a Coloplast ambassador, so, you know, leading by example of a good... You know, having... getting back into life, living a good life. And I am also on the Bowel Cancer Outcomes Registry as a lived experience committee member as well.

42:57

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

42:57

Speaker 2
And that, um, that gives information to colonic surgeons. So from a lived experience perspective, it's- it's linked to the Colonic Surgeons Association.

43:08

Speaker 1
So giving them-

43:08

Speaker 2
Um-

43:08

Speaker 1
... feedback and a little-

43:10

Speaker 2
Yes.

43:10

Speaker 1
... more education.

43:12

Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, CSA NZ. So, um-

43:14

Speaker 1
As you say, as you s- like, I worked in aged care, right? So I'd, I could... People in aged care are gonna start to see the retirement pl- plus people that have... What happens then? You've got an open wound for the rest of your life that needs-

43:29

Speaker 2
Yes.

43:29

Speaker 1
... to be seriously taken care of, right?

43:32

Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah.

43:32

Speaker 1
I mean, it's a bit like, you know, I used to look at, um, some of the blokes when I'd been giving them a shower and they'd had a tattoo when they used to be in the army or the navy, Navy really.

43:41

Speaker 2
(laughs)

43:41

Speaker 1
You know, and that tu- tattoo, it didn't look anything like what e- what they first got, when all the wrinkles set in and the body changed, right?

43:48

Speaker 2
That's right. Yeah, yeah.

43:49

Speaker 1
So-

43:49

Speaker 2
So this is, this is gonna be, uh, o- ongoing as well. (laughs) And-

43:53

Speaker 1
Yeah.

43:53

Speaker 2
... you know, some people may get to a point where they can no longer actually manage it themselves and need assistance to do so. A- and, um, some people my age need assistance to do so too, you know? (laughs) But, um-

44:06

Speaker 1
Again, depending where they're at. Yes.

44:08

Speaker 2
That's right, yeah. But I guess, uh, my passion project and, and where the work really lies for me now, I believe, is in facilitating connection and involving advocacy and getting people together to actually, you know, um, feel supported as well-

44:29

Speaker 1
And advocacy, what do you-

44:30

Speaker 2
... through this.

44:31

Speaker 1
... you mean that, like, when people are going through this process themselves, that they've got someone standing by them side, their side?

44:38

Speaker 2
Yes. Because the biggest thing I hear with, um... aside from, you know, how it's affected their mental health, is nu- probably number one, is the second- secondary is, I don't know anyone else that has an ostomy bag.

44:52

Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah.

44:54

Speaker 2
Yeah.

44:54

Speaker 1
And that just makes-

44:55

Speaker 2
So I'm working on some projects at the moment to actually, uh, connect people and bring people together a bit more.

45:01

Speaker 1
'Cause that must-

45:01

Speaker 2
That may be-

45:02

Speaker 1
... have been a terrible kind of alone forecast of-

45:07

Speaker 2
Yes. (laughs)

45:07

Speaker 1
... what they're stepping into. And I mean, they've just been through, like you're saying, hell and back, turned everything upside down and inside out, lost friends, lost family, lost money, 'cause you gotta keep-

45:19

Speaker 2
Yeah.

45:20

Speaker 1
... a job going, you gotta keep... For some people, they don't have the resources there in the background. And then they come out the other end and they, they've, you know, healed to the degree that they have, and then they've-

45:33

Speaker 2
Yes.

45:33

Speaker 1
... got this path with no one to walk with.

45:36

Speaker 2
And there's also, uh, oh look, there's so many, so many factors. You know, I'd love to talk to that financial piece because, you know, I was sitting, um, in a six figure plus job with a company car, two children in private school, a mortgage, and my whole world came crashing down. And three months later, at the, um, allotted timeframe after y- you're allowed to have three months sick leave-

46:02

Speaker 1
Yeah.

46:02

Speaker 2
... I was actually made redundant.

46:04

Speaker 1
Yes.

46:06

Speaker 2
And-

46:07

Speaker 1
That's the-

46:08

Speaker 2
All I, all I could do was go on Centrelink-

46:10

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

46:10

Speaker 2
... and s- I had $800 a week mortgage, and Centrelink were paying me $600 a fortnight.

46:18

Speaker 1
And you had to navigate-

46:18

Speaker 2
Just to give you an idea.

46:19

Speaker 1
You had to navigate that-

46:20

Speaker 2
And I had to navigate this-

46:21

Speaker 1
... Europe?

46:21

Speaker 2
... y- without pushing myself back to work.

46:23

Speaker 1
Yeah.

46:23

Speaker 2
You know, so a lot of people probably push themselves back to work before-

46:26

Speaker 1
Yes.

46:26

Speaker 2
... they're ready-

46:27

Speaker 1
Yes.

46:27

Speaker 2
... for that reason as well, so...

46:29

Speaker 1
Mm.

46:29

Speaker 2
Fortunately my doctor's very good and, um-

46:32

Speaker 1
Mm.

46:32

Speaker 2
Yeah. But, um-

46:33

Speaker 1
I did watch with my sister when my nephew had cancer, because she had a lot of downtime, and the same as you. So she had resources there, and she had a really good job, and they were backing her and whatever. But what they did do is that they did a, um, a GoFundMe. They did a GoFund-

46:50

Speaker 2
Oh, okay.

46:51

Speaker 1
... and fit that out.

46:51

Speaker 2
Yeah, which is fantastic. Yeah.

46:52

Speaker 1
Which helped enormously as well. Um, I just wanted to say that out there, for people that are in, that are-

46:58

Speaker 2
Yeah, fabulous.

46:59

Speaker 1
... listening. Um, yeah. You know, and if you don't feel brave enough to go and ask for money for yourself, get someone else to do it for you.

47:05

Speaker 2
Yeah.

47:05

Speaker 1
It can happen. Yeah. But the financial-

47:07

Speaker 2
There's so many things that you can do with your bills and things like that as well.

47:09

Speaker 1
Right.

47:10

Speaker 2
And that's... All of this information I have-

47:12

Speaker 1
Right.

47:12

Speaker 2
... and I would love to share.

47:14

Speaker 1
Fabulous. Fabulous.

47:14

Speaker 2
And that's, that's where all this is going for me, as far as, uh, helping other people and, and lining that up, hopefully with some workshops later in the year that people can attend.

47:22

Speaker 1
That's fantastic. Because people aren't mentally in a space, are they, either, to start, you know, c- negotiating about the bills and-

47:29

Speaker 2
That's right.

47:30

Speaker 1
... stuff like that.

47:30

Speaker 2
Yeah.

47:30

Speaker 1
Yeah.

47:31

Speaker 2
Yeah.

47:31

Speaker 1
So many angles to this, so much that-

47:34

Speaker 2
There are.

47:34

Speaker 1
... this will...

47:35

Speaker 2
There are.

47:35

Speaker 1
(laughs) Wow.

47:37

Speaker 2
Yeah.

47:38

Speaker 1
So, what are the blessings?

47:41

Speaker 2
Oh, the blessings out of this, uh, are definitely the lifestyle that I live now. I just absolutely, I can honestly sit here today and say that I love my life. I've just come back from... I'm doing things that I wildly would never have imagined being able to do. I've just come back from nine weeks in Europe-

47:59

Speaker 1
Hmm.

48:00

Speaker 2
... traveling with an ostomy bag, and we're planning our next, (laughs) our next trip.

48:04

Speaker 1
You're a champion.

48:05

Speaker 2
So I, I'm really, I'm really, like, pushing the envelope in, in other ways now, not, not physically, (laughs) but mentally.

48:12

Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:12

Speaker 2
Um, but showing people that, you know, you can really have a great life and still live well, uh, beyond all of this.

48:20

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

48:20

Speaker 2
So that, that's, you know... My life is, is just amazing.

48:26

Speaker 1
I love that, because th- there's a kind of a, a motto that I have in my own life. I'll only share with people what I've personally experienced.

48:35

Speaker 2
Yes.

48:35

Speaker 1
And you're doing that. Like, firstly, not by choice, but now you're making choices to see how far you can push the, the, the boundaries, yeah? How far you can-

48:44

Speaker 2
That's right.

48:45

Speaker 1
... push the limit-

48:46

Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.

48:46

Speaker 1
... for others as well, so you can go-

48:48

Speaker 2
Yeah.

48:48

Speaker 1
... I, 'cause I call myself the crash test dummy. I think you are-

48:52

Speaker 2
Yeah.

48:52

Speaker 1
... right?

48:52

Speaker 2
Well, I am too. And, and I don't sit here and say, "Oh, hey, everything's perfect and wonderful and rosy," and all the rest of it. In fact, this week, I've battled through, um, a sinus infection. You know, my immune system is not what it was.

49:06

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

49:07

Speaker 2
You know, I still have setbacks, things like that. I'm still managing my diabetes on a regular basis.

49:13

Speaker 1
Yeah.

49:13

Speaker 2
Y- you know, I get tired. I, I have to--pull back on some of this work that I'm trying to do-

49:19

Speaker 1
Yeah.

49:19

Speaker 2
-to help other people as well, and be careful, and leave within my boundaries, and-

49:23

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

49:23

Speaker 2
-sometimes that's really hard for me because I really love-

49:25

Speaker 1
Because the old behaviors-

49:26

Speaker 2
I really love, yeah.

49:27

Speaker 1
... the old behaviors come back.

49:28

Speaker 2
The old behaviors creep back in.

49:29

Speaker 1
Yeah, and it, 'cause they want to do everything-

49:30

Speaker 2
So, you know, I'm not perfect.

49:31

Speaker 1
(laughs)

49:31

Speaker 2
I am far from perfect, so, uh, and, and a lot of the time when we talk like this, you know, people think, "Oh, you know, she's so great and she does all these things and, you know, everything's great now for her." Well, you know what? Behind closed doors, it's not always. So, you know. (laughs)

49:46

Speaker 1
Yeah.

49:47

Speaker 2
You still, you still get those life things that creep in and, and those, y- you know, yeah, little setbacks. But you know what? Like a sinus infection, you know, it could, could be worse. (laughs)

49:58

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm. Yep. You deal with it.

50:00

Speaker 2
Yeah.

50:00

Speaker 1
You handle it. Yeah?

50:02

Speaker 2
You rest, you, yeah, you do that sort of thing as well.

50:04

Speaker 1
Yeah. So you're taking notice of your body. And I mean, the body, the only way the body can talk to us is through symptoms, is through pain, and, and, and aches, and things like that. So, now you're paying attention.

50:15

Speaker 2
That's right. Yeah.

50:16

Speaker 1
And taking care of it.

50:18

Speaker 2
Yes.

50:18

Speaker 1
Hmm? That's all it wants.

50:19

Speaker 2
So please pay attention. (laughs)

50:20

Speaker 1
It just wants love. Yeah.

50:22

Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah.

50:25

Speaker 1
Wow.

50:25

Speaker 2
Yeah.

50:25

Speaker 1
What a journey. What an- Thank you (laughs Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it wasn't what I expected. It was an unexpected journey, but it's, (laughs)

50:33

Speaker 2
it's, uh, all worked out, um, and-

50:35

Speaker 1
Well, I have to say that, you know, I have to thank you so much, um, for being so brave, for being so courageous, because I know that just saying out loud the things that you've said, um, here on the show with us today, it's not easy. You make it look easy, right? But you know, y- you, there's, there's wounds in there, there's, there's trauma in there, that, you know, you're slowly starting to share. And as you share, do you heal?

51:05

Speaker 2
Yes, absolutely. You know, there's, there's been a lot of healing in, in doing this work and writing the book, and, you know, it was, it was challenging to actually revisit some of those, those times when I was writing the book. It was very difficult. But I knew I had to do it because I, I knew it was going to help other people-

51:24

Speaker 1
Yeah.

51:24

Speaker 2
-by putting that out there and being brave enough to actually, you know, s- tell it how it is, and, you know, there's some funny stories in there about that bag.

51:31

Speaker 1
Uh-huh.

51:31

Speaker 2
You know, when I first, when I first (laughs) got that bag, and, you know?

51:36

Speaker 1
(laughs)

51:36

Speaker 2
It explodes sometimes in the worst possible places, and, you know?

51:40

Speaker 1
Oh!

51:40

Speaker 2
There's all sorts of things like that that go on, and, and I've laid it bare. So it's, um, yeah.

51:46

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

51:46

Speaker 2
It, it need, it needed to be s- you know, put out there, and yeah.

51:52

Speaker 1
'Cause it's like helping people to walk in your shoes.

51:58

Speaker 2
That's right.

51:59

Speaker 1
It's helping people to understand that you don't ever know what's going on for somebody else. Because even though on the front of your book you've got the bag on the outside, you don't walk around like that, right?

52:12

Speaker 2
No, I don't.

52:13

Speaker 1
S- we, we don't know what's going on on the inside of everyone that we meet.

52:19

Speaker 2
That's right. Yeah. And a lot of people live with hidden disabilities, and it is classified as a hidden disability.

52:26

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

52:26

Speaker 2
Uh, so when I travel, I do wear the hidden disabilities lanyard as well, which is-

52:31

Speaker 1
Hidden sunflowers.

52:32

Speaker 2
-amazing. Yes, yes, yes.

52:34

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm. I know about them because I tested it out myself. I wanted to see how, you know, how the rest of the world, like how the airports and different travel stops and stuff, um, have been educated, and they've been educated to quietly just pay attention to it. They just pay attention to it, which is really wonderful. Do you-

52:56

Speaker 2
I'll let you in on a little secret. I'm actually going to be on their podcast.

53:00

Speaker 1
(laughs) Aren't you?

53:01

Speaker 2
Yes.

53:02

Speaker 1
Good. Wonderful.

53:03

Speaker 2
(laughs)

53:03

Speaker 1
You really are getting the message out there, aren't you?

53:05

Speaker 2
Yes. (laughs) It's wonderful. And this is what we're doing here today as well, so that everybody out there can start feeling like you've got some insight, that they, you know, if they read your book, they're going to get a ton of insight and some funny stories, like you said. Yeah Yeah. And you don't have to have been through it, and you don't have to, uh, know someone with a bag or have a bag to, to read it and, and find it, you know, funny or, um, you know, just a reality check.

53:36

Speaker 2
You know, everyone

53:37

Speaker 1
Yeah.

53:37

Speaker 2
-could probably d- do with just having a little think about maybe one or two things they can change in their life to live healthier.

53:44

Speaker 1
Yeah.

53:44

Speaker 2
And that's really the, the overall message. It's not-

53:47

Speaker 1
Yeah.

53:47

Speaker 2
-so much cancer and bowel cancer related, it's more, um, illness and, and prevention.

53:54

Speaker 1
Yep. So, you know, in this day and age where cancer is so prevalent that every second person has, is, is dealing with something on some level, um, it will give people insight, firstly into the journey and what it's all about, um, and then they'll be able to relate in a different way with others around them.

54:15

Speaker 2
That's right. Yes.

54:17

Speaker 1
And then the health aspects, like you say-

54:19

Speaker 2
Yeah.

54:19

Speaker 1
-the shift and the change that you've made.

54:21

Speaker 2
Yeah.

54:21

Speaker 1
So, meditation and your inner world.

54:25

Speaker 2
And just focusing on what you can do. You know, a lot of people, uh, are going through illness and don't put a lot of pressure on yourself. It's, it's about what you can do. If you got up this morning and you had a shower, you're doing well. You know, small wins.

54:41

Speaker 1
How did you get to the point of simplifying your life? Even-

54:46

Speaker 2
It's necessity. (laughs)

54:48

Speaker 1
The, the mind though, the mind is a very, very powerful thing.

54:51

Speaker 2
Oh, it is. The mind is a very powerful-

54:52

Speaker 1
Like call it mind, ego, whatever, it's a very powerful thing because it's been one of my goals throughout my life to find out what the hell that thing is and how to manage it. Right? So, you got mind, you got subconscious as well. So, sitting in the background, you know, did a lot of... Did you start to get a lot of different thinking going on in your head?

55:12

Speaker 2
I did, and, and I think, uh, spending time alone and, and just mapping out and working out, you know, what is important to you.

55:21

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

55:21

Speaker 2
Uh, what things do you want to achieve?Um, and-

55:25

Speaker 1
How did you overcome doubt?

55:28

Speaker 2
The doubt?

55:29

Speaker 1
Yeah.

55:30

Speaker 2
Um-

55:31

Speaker 1
That constant-

55:31

Speaker 2
that-

55:31

Speaker 1
... voice that says, "Be careful. This is gonna go wrong. That's gonna happen."

55:36

Speaker 2
Uh, I, I did a lot of, a lot of affirmation work, and I did a lot of manifesting-

55:42

Speaker 1
Yeah.

55:42

Speaker 2
... about the type of lifestyle that I wanted to live.

55:45

Speaker 1
Okay.

55:46

Speaker 2
I actually did a vision board.

55:48

Speaker 1
Yep.

55:48

Speaker 2
And I, I look back at that vision board now and, and I actually, there's probably 80% of what's on it has actually come to fruition-

55:57

Speaker 1
It's true that, it's true.

55:57

Speaker 2
... yeah, in the last two years. And i- i- it's, it's about really believing that you are healthy and living healthy, and-

56:06

Speaker 1
Yes.

56:07

Speaker 2
... you know, really believing that you can achieve, um, and putting that out there. Because I, I truly believe whatever you put out you get back. It, it's, it, it really is-

56:15

Speaker 1
Without a doubt.

56:16

Speaker 2
Yeah. And if you can, you can achieve that mindset and you can actually do all that on, on repeat daily and do the inner work.

56:25

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

56:25

Speaker 2
And I did a lot of that inner work, the, the manifesting and the meditation.

56:30

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

56:31

Speaker 2
And, and just really sitting with myself and saying, "All right, well that made me feel like this." You know? "That's okay, it's an emotion. I'm allowed to feel like that."

56:39

Speaker 1
Yes.

56:40

Speaker 2
But, but don't hold it, carry it, and turn it into something that it's not.

56:45

Speaker 1
Yep.

56:46

Speaker 2
Also, learning to deal with your internal dialogue is ... We have this inner voice. And it-

56:52

Speaker 1
That's the one I'm talking about. Mm.

56:54

Speaker 2
And it tells us, it tells us lies.

56:55

Speaker 1
Absolutely.

56:56

Speaker 2
Absolute lies.

56:58

Speaker 1
Yep. It's, it's just a critic. It's an absolute critic-

57:01

Speaker 2
It is.

57:01

Speaker 1
... of everything.

57:03

Speaker 2
Yeah.

57:03

Speaker 1
Yes.

57:03

Speaker 2
And, and it's, it's so, uh, you know, and I've ... And like I said, I'm not perfect. You know, sometimes I listen to it and I think, "Oh, oh, do I really look like that?" Or, do I, you know, "Oh, hang on a minute. Nicole, you're listening to your internal dialogue here."

57:16

Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.

57:17

Speaker 2
"Uh, hang on. No, no, no. It's not true."

57:19

Speaker 1
Yep.

57:19

Speaker 2
"I know what I believe."

57:21

Speaker 1
Yep.

57:22

Speaker 2
Yeah. And that's, it's-

57:22

Speaker 1
So refocus on that vision board. Refocus on that, the goals that you have, the beautiful goals. Yep.

57:27

Speaker 2
Yeah, just keep bringing it back to that-

57:29

Speaker 1
Yep.

57:30

Speaker 2
... where you're heading and what you, what you're, what you're wanting to do.

57:33

Speaker 1
And people-

57:34

Speaker 2
So-

57:34

Speaker 1
... don't wait until some, some crisis hits you to, or in order to start doing that, right?

57:41

Speaker 2
That's right, yeah. It's, it's about living a little bit of that every single day. And I do fall off the wagon every now and again and I go, "Ooh, I haven't meditated for a few days." (laughs) And-

57:50

Speaker 1
(laughs)

57:50

Speaker 2
And I think, "Oh, that's why my mind's spinning out of control." (laughs) I need to get-

57:53

Speaker 1
Right.

57:53

Speaker 2
... back to my work, you know?

57:54

Speaker 1
Right. Yep.

57:55

Speaker 2
Uh, and it's funny, 'cause my partner, he's always, he's always been a bit of a, um, thinks it's all very woo-woo and, you know, all the rest of it.

58:03

Speaker 1
Yep.

58:04

Speaker 2
But he'll actually tell me now when I'm outta whack.

58:06

Speaker 1
Oh, good.

58:07

Speaker 2
And, and he knows that I need to go and do some of that work, you know-

58:10

Speaker 1
So isn't that interesting?

58:11

Speaker 2
... you know, yeah.

58:11

Speaker 1
Because when you-

58:12

Speaker 2
Yeah. (laughs)

58:12

Speaker 1
... ******* yourself, your behavior actually does impact others.

58:16

Speaker 2
It does.

58:16

Speaker 1
It does impact others.

58:17

Speaker 2
Yeah.

58:18

Speaker 1
Yeah. It, it-

58:18

Speaker 2
And I know he does believe in, in a, in, you know, quite a few of those things. But I, but h- he's, yeah, all in all, he said, uh, he says to me, "Oh, you need to go and get your little bowl and bong your bowl." And you know? (laughs)

58:29

Speaker 1
Uh-huh. Yes, yes. I hear you.

58:32

Speaker 2
Yeah.

58:33

Speaker 1
Absolutely. Like when my, when I was going through that myself, when I was learning meditation and whatnot, my kids would say, you know, for anything that was broken or needed fixing, "Oh, Mum, are you gonna put lavender on that?"

58:44

Speaker 2
Yeah. (laughs) I know.

58:46

Speaker 1
Same thing, same thing.

58:47

Speaker 2
(laughs)

58:47

Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, love.

58:48

Speaker 2
Yeah.

58:48

Speaker 1
Our hour's up. Like, it's gone-

58:50

Speaker 2
Oh, okay.

58:51

Speaker 1
... so fast.

58:51

Speaker 2
(laughs)

58:52

Speaker 1
Um, if, let, let's ... Thank you, as I said, for being so brave, for being s- so outspoken. And, you know, for really just allowing us into that world of yours, because it's just in- incredible what you've achieved, and the path you've set for yourself as well. I really look forward to where you're headed as well.

59:11

Speaker 2
Thank you. Yes, it's exciting. There's a lot in the ... Lot in the planning at the moment.

59:16

Speaker 1
Yep.

59:16

Speaker 2
And, uh, yeah, keep watching this space.

59:18

Speaker 1
Good.

59:19

Speaker 2
And hopefully I can help more people going forward. And it's been an absolute pleasure to be on your show. Thank you so much, Helen.

59:24

Speaker 1
And what would you say to somebody out there who's listening about their health?

59:29

Speaker 2
It's what you can do.

59:31

Speaker 1

 

Fabulous. That's a beautiful way to end it. And for everybody out there as well, uh, in the show notes I will put Nicole's, um, website so that you can access her book and her story as well. Nicole, thank you so much for being on here today.

59:45

Speaker 2
Thanks for having me. Thanks, Helen.

59:47

Speaker 1
Okay.