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Bo H: Hello! Hello! This is Idaho, Bo! And.

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vicki fisk: Vivacious book!

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Bo H: For another show of down and dirty. And today we are talking about permaculture.

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Bo H: and we're going to do things a little bit different. We've had great guests a couple of times. Don Newsome, from Bbs radio and our great friend Matt Denning, in Boise, Idaho, have been guests on our show, and they're very permaculture minded. So we're going to go a little bit more into depth about permaculture today

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Bo H: before we get started. I just would like to thank Bbs radio for being great hosts and always being there for our questions

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Bo H: and suggestions. And also, if you find our content interesting and

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Bo H: something that you can utilize in your life.

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Bo H: Please subscribe to our channel. We would greatly appreciate it.

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Bo H: You can find a place to subscribe on. bbsradio.com forward, slash down and dirty. Scroll down a bit, and you'll find a little button. We would greatly appreciate it.

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Bo H: All right, Vic, are you ready to get down and dirty about permaculture.

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vicki fisk: I'm ready.

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Bo H: The reason we're doing it this way. And I'm asking Vicki the questions today is she's actually certified in from culture. She has a certificate from. She'll have to remind me the name of where she got certified in Colorado.

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Bo H: I am a proponent of permaculture, and I use practices in my life. But we thought we'd have some fun with this today. So, Vic, here we go.

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Bo H: So

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Bo H: your certification, I feel, is a great achievement. What inspired you to dive into permaculture in the 1st place, and what was the moment that hooked you.

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vicki fisk: Back in the 9 late nineties.

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vicki fisk: mid to late nineties, when I still have my landscape garden business.

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vicki fisk: I've always been a gardener, organic gardener, and had gardens everywhere.

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vicki fisk: But permaculture came across my radar screen somehow, and I

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vicki fisk: immediately had got interested and started reading about what it really is, and also at that time.

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vicki fisk: I don't. I just adopted it right off the bat, because when I read about some of the experiences and experimental sites that they

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vicki fisk: mollison. His name was Mollison, in New Zealand.

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Bo H: And Allison.

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vicki fisk: Bill Mollison is the

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vicki fisk: discover or initiator of permaculture. I loved everything. I read about it, and started adapting small

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vicki fisk: things in my life. To that.

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vicki fisk: I

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vicki fisk: went to Central Rocky Mountain Permaculture Institute at 7,200 feet in Colorado basalt, Colorado. He is still

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vicki fisk: doing that. Oh, that was. That was a long time like 97 97 98,

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vicki fisk: and he's still very, very big with his classes every year. 2 week class that you sign up, for

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vicki fisk: I love what permaculture is all about, because it's all about adding to what is already naturally occurring.

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vicki fisk: and that makes sense on every single level. You're not trying to change things, to suit a single or a couple different motivations. But you are,

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vicki fisk: adding to what the natural landscape already provides. You don't diminish or destroy it. You actually work with everything present on a piece of property. So I was hooked immediately.

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vicki fisk: Go ahead.

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Bo H: Alrighty. So

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Bo H: along that line what is the biggest myth or misconception about permaculture that you'd love to bust for our listeners? Maybe something that makes people think it's too hard or not for them.

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vicki fisk: The biggest myth about

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vicki fisk: permaculture and many gardening practices is that you have to work harder. No permaculture you're working with what is already natural.

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vicki fisk: and you are adapting to nature. Rather you trying to force Nature to adapt to your situation. That is the biggest myth around so many garden practices.

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Bo H: Alrighty.

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Bo H: So let's ask you another question. What was the most surprising lesson

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Bo H: you learned from your permaculture course, something that shifted, how you see nature or your role in it.

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vicki fisk: 2 things. One, the number one was was the composting toilet. You know there were. There were 20 people

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vicki fisk: living on this, and we had one outhouse, and there was some house, but we we were all directed to use the composting toilet, and we learned how to do it. And so the greatest thing that that I discovered. I'd never seen anything like it was the red Wiggler worms that do the composting for us and the product. The byproduct of that is one of the most

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vicki fisk: nutrient rich fertilizers that we can make.

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vicki fisk: and the other thing was witnessing how

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vicki fisk: common farm animals, especially the chickens

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vicki fisk: and those red wigglers. How they do all the work for us!

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vicki fisk: They compost, they fertilize, they dig, they do pest control well, especially the chickens. And those 2 things really shifted my consciousness to a place of

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vicki fisk: work smarter, not harder, and that is.

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Bo H: Same.

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vicki fisk: All. What permaculture is all about.

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Bo H: So going back to the composting toilet. I I live in the city, so I don't have one, but I've utilized them before and after

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Bo H: you leave your deposit you, the ones I've seen is you put in sawdust.

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Bo H: and then that drops down into a bin, and then you take that out to the Red Wigglers. Right? I know you have red Wigglers, and I also know you don't have a composting toilet in your house.

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Bo H: But what is the byproduct of human waste called? And can you tell us a little bit about it?

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vicki fisk: It's called humanore.

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Bo H: Humane! Oh, my goodness.

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vicki fisk: I mean.

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Bo H: Isn't that creative.

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vicki fisk: Simple.

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Bo H: Yeah.

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vicki fisk: So.

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Bo H: Humaneur like you. You know you told us before on a previous show that your mom used to use it.

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vicki fisk: It used to be legal in Boise.

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Bo H: Yeah.

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vicki fisk: And I don't. I don't know the whole history of that, and where it was produced, and and how you got it. But she got it, and we, when I was 1st learning that we use that all over our property.

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Bo H: I know, and a lot of I can. I can just hear a lot of our listeners going, Ew, because

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Bo H: because.

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vicki fisk: No.

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Bo H: No, you know me guys pun intended. We've been fed a crock of shit about human manure.

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Bo H: And you oh, it's full of bacteria. You're gonna get

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Bo H: pythus, or whatever the heck they say you get from it.

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Bo H: But it's actually, if you look through history, it's been used throughout our history human history as a fertilizer for crops, and you actually get very

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Bo H: luscious strawberries, etc, etc, from using that.

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vicki fisk: I've done.

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Bo H: That's that's a good myth, Buster. Right there. I appreciate that one.

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Bo H: So what is one simple permaculture practice that you've adopted

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Bo H: that make a big difference. It's kind of tying into the last question.

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Bo H: and how could our listeners try it in their own spaces, no matter how small.

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vicki fisk: Well, you and I both utilize, chop and drop and chop and drop is when you're growing some species of plants that

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vicki fisk: capture nutrients, especially.

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vicki fisk: Well, the one I use is comfrey right now. The one that was prevalent at the permaculture site in Colorado was a pea pea shrub

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vicki fisk: and pea shrub is a nitrogen fixer, like peas and beans are in our in our urban gardens.

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vicki fisk: and when you chop that and drop it as a mulch, it mulches and helps retain moisture, but it also fertilizes as it decomposes, and I just did a huge amount of comfrey and put it all around all my pepper plants, tomato plants, Bok choy, you know, tomatillos and everything, and I didn't exhaust even a fragment. We've got a lot of comfrey growing.

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Bo H: You grow it underneath your apple trees, correct.

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vicki fisk: We grow we grow, Humphrey underneath our sit or not citrus, but our orchard trees.

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vicki fisk: And there's a symbiotic relationship which I haven't scientifically studied, but many, many organic gardeners use plant country or comfrey underneath their fruit trees.

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vicki fisk: and it and it deters, pests, and it. It helps, fertilize and strengthen resistant to. So it's it's a very powerful herb.

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Bo H: I shared a video, a Youtube video with Vicki a couple of weeks ago about comfrey because she grows it. And I shared it with my

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Bo H: nephew, too, because he has it screwing all over his 5 acres up north from me.

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Bo H: And one of the reasons I shared it with my nephew is because he raises sheep and goats and chickens

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Bo H: and comfrey can also be used as fodder for your livestock. It's just got multiple uses. The ancients called it bone knit because it can actually heal broken bones.

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Bo H: I use confre in a healing balm for your skin that I make. I also, I add

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Bo H: red clover napweed, and

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Bo H: oh, plantain to it! I call it bow's boo booby better, and it's very healing and soothing for your skin. Coffee is a miracle, Herb, and we will do a show on herbs, probably more than one, because there's a lot to say about herbology.

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Bo H: But again, this ties into permaculture practices.

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Bo H: So let's ask another question. Vicki.

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Bo H: What is a common challenge people face when starting permaculture? And what advice would you give to help them overcome and keep going.

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vicki fisk: What I find in my experience over the years

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vicki fisk: is people have to overcome their own resistance to making a commitment, to make a lifestyle change.

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vicki fisk: because a lot of the things that you and I are involved with and trying to help people learn

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vicki fisk: is gardening and growing your own food and and beginning to maintain a sustainable lifestyle.

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vicki fisk: It requires us to probably make some changes in our lifestyle and our time. Commitment

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vicki fisk: gardening is a time commitment, and the more you grow the more time it takes. And so to me it's about learning how to leave

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vicki fisk: the system that we all live in. If we live in a city, if we live it really, it's a global thing, not just us, not just cities. But it's a global thing of leaving the systems that aren't sustainable at all.

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vicki fisk: If you're dependent on going to the grocery store for every bit of food that you have.

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vicki fisk: that is a dependency that we have to start chipping away at.

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vicki fisk: And that's what gardening helps you do. It helps you get into more of a natural rhythm

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vicki fisk: of the seasons of the sun and the day and the night, and also the nature

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vicki fisk: provides everything for us. So the closer we get to the more we learn about practices that can help feed us and sustain a lifestyle different. But it's a commitment to be willing to leave

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vicki fisk: the system that's in place right now.

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Bo H: One of the ways I find

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Bo H: that helps me break that system

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Bo H: is leaving my freaking phone at home.

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vicki fisk: I'm right.

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Bo H: Go outside, I

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Bo H: an apartment, and if you've listened to any of our previous shows, you know I have a plethora of pots in my front yard.

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Bo H: To the chagrin of couple of my neighbors, but so be it.

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Bo H: But when I go out and walk, my dog, or I go to the forest. I leave my phone at home, and sometimes I go dang. I wish I had my phone because I want to take a picture.

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Bo H: Well, that just tells me I probably need to get a small camera to take with me instead.

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Bo H: but leave leave the devices at home, and

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Bo H: just try to be out in nature as much as possible. That's that. That's my device, or or that's my advice, anyway.

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Bo H: All right, let let's dream big for a moment.

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Bo H: If you could design a permaculture community from scratch.

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Bo H: what would it look like? And how would it bring people together.

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vicki fisk: Well, I've already designed, to the best of my ability a permaculture site here where I live, and I have invited over the years, and and had had a little bit of success several years ago. It's been at least 6

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vicki fisk: of having some people volunteer to come help, weed.

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vicki fisk: and and the payment for that would be a share of produce.

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vicki fisk: But I am finding that people

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vicki fisk: say, oh, yes, I would really like to get involved in that and come and help you do some things.

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vicki fisk: The time commitments with people are very fragile, because our

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vicki fisk: I mean people are so busy working and raising families. And and so for me.

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vicki fisk: it's goes back to. The answer of that previous question is.

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vicki fisk: what do you want to make a commitment to in order to start including

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vicki fisk: some of these practices into your life, you have to make room for bringing new practices in.

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vicki fisk: It's just like the old thing. If I'm gonna buy something new.

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vicki fisk: I need to get rid of something that I'm not using. It's the same kind of mindset.

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vicki fisk: Make room.

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vicki fisk: That means you have to stop doing something else to make room, even if it's an hour, even if it's a half an hour.

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vicki fisk: Some people don't even have a half an hour to go out without their devices and sit in nature, or weed their garden, or plant a pot

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vicki fisk: to me. That's very sad.

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Bo H: So, but it is.

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Bo H: I'm sorry. Go ahead.

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vicki fisk: It is the truth of of our living situations right now.

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Bo H: So one of the things that this question about designing a permaculture community from scratch brings to my mind.

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Bo H: Let's go back to the ringing cedars, books to Anastasia and her kins, domains, where

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Bo H: she she 1st brings in the individual and their land the individual their family.

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Bo H: because she's all about having a a family

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Bo H: domain. That's what a kins domain is. It's actually 1. 1

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Bo H: husband and wife or single person will start the the

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Bo H: property to 2 hectares, as she says, which

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Bo H: I'm I don't know if that translates to like 5 acres I can't remember

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Bo H: regardless. And then it's head down. It's handed down through the generations. So it's it's the it's the kin, the family domain.

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Bo H: And so she speaks about how how to place things on your land. But then she talks about having a whole village like this, and then the

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Bo H: the village pretty much shares everything that they're symbiotic with each other.

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Bo H: So I I'd like to Vic at some point, maybe dig into the ringing cedars a little bit more.

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Bo H: But you know, when you have like-minded people.

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Bo H: when you start a community for me. Anyways, it needs to be intentional, and you need to have

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Bo H: a goal or or have things in common that you want to to address and to achieve.

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Bo H: And so building a community on permaculture practices. Just seems like a natural thing to do to me.

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Bo H: All right, let's move on.

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Bo H: If you could share one permaculture principle to make the world a better place, which would you choose? And why does it feel so powerful to you.

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vicki fisk: I think the one thing that people need to understand is that you got to work smarter, not harder, because when you

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vicki fisk: start to incorporate permaculture practices into your little garden or your big property.

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vicki fisk: It means working with with nature. It doesn't mean changing the property to become a monoculture field or something. It means that you observe

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vicki fisk: what's already present on your property, what animals, what birds, what insects, naturally occur on your property?

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vicki fisk: And are they an enhancement, or are they taking away? And how do you work with those things? Where's the water? Where does? If you've got a creek, or a pond, or or a little

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vicki fisk: swampy area, or something. How how does that contribute to what's going on on your property? And how can you enhance that? So that it is that full full tilt, you know. Incorporating

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vicki fisk: when I was up at my permaculture training. There's always when you're getting your training, you always do a design. That's part of getting your certificate is you do a design. So we pair it off into, I think at that point there were 3 of us doing a design, and and he was wanting to design a riparian zone by putting in a pond.

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vicki fisk: And so we needed to. We. So you take into the consideration where the sun comes up during the entire year, because of the North South migration of the sun across the sky, you take into consideration. What trees are there? What's shady? What's sunny? Where does the water flow into the pond, and where does it flow out of the pond?

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vicki fisk: And so this is what you do on any site that you are wanting to incorporate permaculture practices.

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vicki fisk: If you live in a place that's really shrubby, and you know, kind of a slopey hillside or something. One of the examples that I was really intrigued by was somebody wanted to. They bought some land, and then they wanted to figure out, well, what are we going to do? What do we want to do? And it was a natural migration and habitat for wild turkeys.

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vicki fisk: Well, what did they do? They? They started raising turkeys that could free range.

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vicki fisk: And it, I mean, that's the type of thing you know. It was a quail and a and a wild turkey habitat. Naturally. So they incorporated practices and some cages and things like that to be able to manage.

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vicki fisk: So you'd look at it from that perspective. So instead of going in and wanting to bear, you know.

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Bo H: We do everything.

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vicki fisk: Redo it. No, you incorporate what's already going on in a process that's the biggest part of permaculture is using what's already naturally available and enhancing that, adding to it, and making that work towards your goals.

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Bo H: That's kind of like you were saying earlier work smarter, not harder. So when you work away.

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vicki fisk: Absolutely.

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Bo H: Nature.

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vicki fisk: Yeah.

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Bo H: Instead of against it. Which, you know, like it brings me back to when you were talking about

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Bo H: how you were so intrigued with xeriscaping, and how that's actually working a lot.

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Bo H: That's a lot smarter because it uses less water. You're in a desert. You're in an upper desert.

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Bo H: and people just didn't want to have it. They wanted their English gardens with all the beautiful flowers which don't get me wrong. I love. When I lived in Wales. That was the absolute, perfect place for that.

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Bo H: It was in the Uk. So I guess it's not quite an English garden, but it was an Englishman I was living with. So anyway, it's working with what you have not against it. Yeah, that's great. Okay, I'm going to ask you a real fun one now.

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Bo H: So let's see if permaculture was a superhero.

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Bo H: What would its superpower be, and what kind of funky costume

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Bo H: would it rock to save the world?

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vicki fisk: Oh!

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Bo H: Hi.

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vicki fisk: I don't know.

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vicki fisk: have an answer to that one.

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Bo H: You don't have an answer, that one. All right, let's move on.

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Bo H: So what? What exactly is permaculture? How would you explain it to a curious 10 year old, or a skeptical grandparent

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Bo H: and bonus points, if you can make it sound like the coolest adventure ever.

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vicki fisk: Well, one of the thoughts that I came up with is, how about how about we? We grow

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vicki fisk: the Psilocybin mushrooms?

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vicki fisk: This kind of goes back into the

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vicki fisk: kind of goes back into the other question.

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vicki fisk: and I and I and I, I have a my superhero is Jimi Hendrix, and he comes, and he

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vicki fisk: it's on our property

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vicki fisk: that's not really for a 10 year old. But anyway, it's like, do what feels right for you. This is the thing. Find your joy in what you love

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vicki fisk: and do that incorporate that 1st and foremost

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vicki fisk: it can be. There's no limit.

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vicki fisk: you know. If you wanna if you want to put a few rabbit hutches and grow some rabbits right.

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vicki fisk: they fertilize, they feed.

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Bo H: Really, really fast. They fertilize.

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vicki fisk: They fertilize.

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Bo H: Realize each other, really fast.

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vicki fisk: You know, and I mean it's just figuring out what you love.

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vicki fisk: Nature provides so many beautiful things for us.

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vicki fisk: so have fun with it and pick something that you love doesn't have to be complicated.

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Bo H: So you know I've been gardening for many, many years, and not everything I've always tried has been successful.

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Bo H: But you know we learn from our mistakes.

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Bo H: So let's talk about fails because we all have them.

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vicki fisk: Hmm.

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Bo H: What's a permaculture experiment? You've tried that went hilariously wrong.

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Bo H: Not that it was funny in the moment. And what did it teach you about working with nature?

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vicki fisk: Well, I couldn't say it was. It went hilariously wrong.

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vicki fisk: But you know we've we've tried to keep bees for years, and we failed, and we quit because we can't figure out why we can't keep them. And that's real sad. Actually, it's not hilarious. And I can't. I can't actually think of a fail

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vicki fisk: that I've had. That was pretty funny right off the bat. I'm sure there are some.

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vicki fisk: But

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vicki fisk: the big fail that was really sad for us was having to give up the bees with so many apple trees and raspberry. I mean, we have huge, you know. They just are such great pollinators

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vicki fisk: that that was really that was a really hard one.

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Bo H: Maybe ridiculous is a better word than hilarious, because ridiculous doesn't always mean it's funny. It it.

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vicki fisk: We could we? Yeah, we tried everything. We don't know if it's the mites. We don't know if it's the Kim trailers dropping so much poison that's killing off the plants that they.

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vicki fisk: you know that they love to.

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Bo H: And then and then all the monocrops they're all sprayed with

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Bo H: with roundup and all of the, you know.

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Bo H: It's probably a conglomeration of all of the above, because because a health, a healthy bee.

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Bo H: a healthy, a healthy swarm of bees.

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Bo H: won't get mites. There's a reason that that their systems are weakened just like

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Bo H: more. So down south where you live, but a lot when you go up into like Garden Valley, and you'll see a lot of the trees are are turning red.

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Bo H: and that's because they had. There's they say it's a beetle.

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Bo H: And but why is the tree getting attacked by a beetle all of a sudden all of these trees are just dying, and if it is truly a beetle, and it's not the chemtrails I know we're getting a little off subject here.

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Bo H: Why are the beetles attacking the trees? Why are all? Why is there all this die off all of a sudden? And you know you have to think. Perhaps it's it's more than just what they're saying. It's not just the beetle. It's not just the mite. It's because the system of the organism

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Bo H: is weakened, and what's weakening it? And I think you hit it right on

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Bo H: the head. The chemtrails, the chemical petrochemicals that they spray goes into the water systems. And so

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Bo H: we are building our new earth together and community. And so we're gonna we're gonna get beyond this. It's not a.

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Bo H: It's not going to be a disaster movie in the end.

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Bo H: So.

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vicki fisk: No.

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Bo H: We both know that permaculture isn't just about gardening. We've talked a lot about gardening. It's actually a whole lifestyle. It's the systems for the whole way you live.

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Bo H: What's 1 way? You've woven permaculture into your daily routine that's made life more awesome for you

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Bo H: and others that you are close to.

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vicki fisk: Well, feeding myself. Good food is the primary motivation and reward for using permaculture practices.

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vicki fisk: It's really important to me what I feed myself what I feed my body, what I feed my family.

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vicki fisk: and I mean to me it's just a no brainer. But

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vicki fisk: If if we all are 100% dependent on going to the grocery store for everything we eat. To me it's very sad.

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vicki fisk: You can still find some decent food. You really have to look for it.

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vicki fisk: Farmers. Markets have helped to relieve that problem.

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vicki fisk: We have lots of farmers markets here in this valley, and we have lots of organic gardeners who are doing a great job of providing very high in beef, chicken, eggs.

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vicki fisk: vegetables, fruit, you know.

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vicki fisk: So, being able to go and participate in purchasing really high quality. Food

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vicki fisk: is really important to me to shift that, you know, to bring the the shift into the consciousness of everybody. I know it's not. I know a lot of people aren't able to afford to go do that because it

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vicki fisk: I don't know why, or growing organic is more expensive, but it's.

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Bo H: Right. You're not put. You don't have to buy all the.

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vicki fisk: You know what I mean? Crafted, I'm on it.

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vicki fisk: It's it's a sad fact, but that to me, growing my own, you should see my greens right now. It I mean I can't.

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vicki fisk: I can't. I don't have enough customers right now

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vicki fisk: to purchase the amount that I'm growing.

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Bo H: So that's.

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vicki fisk: A lot of salads.

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vicki fisk: Lot, lots of greens. It's just wonderful.

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vicki fisk: Yeah. So I think that's my main thing.

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Bo H: Something that you said when you were talking about the farmers, markets, and the beef. We have that up here, too. Grass fed beef, people that are are foraging their their pigs. I don't eat meat, although I do make bone broth.

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Bo H: but I I have to tell you I don't know if it's the same down there, and I don't know if it's the same for anybody else in our audience.

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Bo H: I went to the farmers market at the end of the season last year with my sister and her husband.

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Bo H: and I wasn't really in the market to buy anything. I did probably end up buying a few things.

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Bo H: but the farmers market here in Coeur d'alene has become ridiculously expensive. It used to be the other way around that the farmers markets were there to support the community that helped support them. And now it's almost it's a kind of a sad turn around that

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Bo H: they're just hopping on the bandwagon of, you know, trying to make a buck which everybody needs to

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Bo H: but again, why is it so expensive to buy organic produce when you really don't have to

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Bo H: buy all the stuff that they have to buy that you have to buy to grow conventional.

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Bo H: It's just a quandary for me.

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vicki fisk: Well, I will chime in on that to the best of my ability.

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vicki fisk: if if it's a mom and Pop deal, and just 2 people, and they are growing enough to come to a Saturday market.

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vicki fisk: and they are harvesting all that. They're transporting all of it. They're keeping it fresh until it hits the market, and most of them have to travel. They don't live in the city. They need to come from an area. So there's a lot. There can be a lot of contributing factors

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vicki fisk: to grow organically. It does not cost. It does not cost that much if you're if like, if you're doing the chop and drop with pea shrub. Pea shrub grows great almost everywhere.

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Bo H: Is, is that the same thing?

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Bo H: Yes, fetch VETC. H. Because it grows all it grows crazy up here.

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vicki fisk: That's.

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Bo H: Wild pea shrub.

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Bo H: It might be that it might be that.

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vicki fisk: Flowers.

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vicki fisk: The thing is is just to find the things that you can grow in a little section of your and grow your own fertilizer.

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vicki fisk: So you don't even have to go out and haul dairy compost or have it delivered. It's expensive buying compost from a reputable good place is expensive.

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vicki fisk: So that's why you need the animals. That's why you need to have chickens. That's why you need the Red Wiggler worms, because they create fertilizer for you. So there are a lot of costs involved in growing food on a larger scale. But it seems to me like it's very trendy now, and if these people are, if that's what they're dependent on for their income. Yeah, they've got to make money on it.

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Bo H: Yeah, yeah.

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vicki fisk: It would be nicer to have a little bit more trade and bartering.

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vicki fisk: you know, and I'm sure a lot of those people that go to those markets. Do trade partner with other people. You get to know all the

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vicki fisk: vendors.

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Bo H: I do that to a certain extent. I mean Kombucha, and I trade with my nephew for eggs.

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Bo H: He he's the one that has the 5 acres. He's probably got about 25 chickens.

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vicki fisk: Yeah.

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Bo H: and I, you know we both bake bread, and so I do, barter I do barter some, and I I would love to do that more. I know.

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Bo H: sunshine from whiplash. Talk is talking about starting some bartering kinds of

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Bo H: enterprises, and Teresa, on all learning reimagined, has her bartering barn that she wants to start. So I think going forward in community bartering will be a huge thing.

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Bo H: Alrighty, let's continue with some permaculture questions. Let's see.

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Bo H: How about.

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Bo H: If you could wave a magic wand

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Bo H: and get the whole world to adopt one from a culture practice tomorrow, which one would it be?

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Bo H: And how do you think it would make the planet a better place.

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vicki fisk: The magic wand that I would want to sprinkle the fairy dust around is get serious about your own sustainability.

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vicki fisk: because it's you, and if you don't, if you don't. If, if, as a species on this planet, we don't shift our mindset about being dependent on the systems that are failing us right and left.

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vicki fisk: We're not going to evolve to a place where we can create a community gather enough people who want to get serious about.

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vicki fisk: You know I am a living example of it, and I may not be trying hard enough to gather people that want to come and help me grow and harvest and preserve the food that I'm able to grow. But until people do get

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vicki fisk: the bug, I guess maybe they have to catch the bug that oh.

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vicki fisk: I could be doing this and that and the other. It's about changing your mindset.

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vicki fisk: I think that's the number. One thing

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vicki fisk: I mean, we've talked about. You don't have to have a big piece of property. You can get pots. You can have an urban setting where you Lasagna garden on top of grass, and when one season you have a garden. I think that's what our main goal you and me, Bo, is to help

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vicki fisk: get people inspired, that it's not that hard. It's it's not that hard at all to get started

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vicki fisk: and just start and then see if you want to get bigger and bigger.

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vicki fisk: But you have to change something in your life to incorporate something new on that level.

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Bo H: It's it's it's a a lifestyle change that.

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vicki fisk: Yeah.

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Bo H: We?

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Bo H: I don't know how many times I've had to have lifestyle changes in my own life.

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vicki fisk: I know, but I think even lifestyle is too big of a term. I think it's more of a

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vicki fisk: life habit change

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vicki fisk: because our habits dictate our routine during the day, I mean, let's all be honest. I've got my own. We all have our habits, we all have our routines that we love, and there's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes a lot of our habits are not super beneficial.

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vicki fisk: They're just something we've gotten used to.

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Bo H: Right.

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vicki fisk: And I have to admit I am as guilty as anybody. I can get on my phone and start scrolling on to my different favorite places, and before you know it, I've I've spent a whole hour.

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vicki fisk: and I have accomplished not one thing.

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vicki fisk: so I'm guilty, too, of using time. That could be.

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vicki fisk: So I don't know. It's just check yourself.

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vicki fisk: See if everything you're doing is working for you. If not, what can you change? To bring something new in doesn't mean it's gonna be a success. But until you try you won't know.

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Bo H: A little off topic, actually quite a bit off topic.

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Bo H: Did we mention our Facebook page on our last show with dawn.

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vicki fisk: We did.

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Bo H: Okay, Vicki, Vicki's on Facebook. I'm not so Vicki's the orchestrator of that.

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Bo H: And I, I will be sharing some photos. And what have you that I'm I'm going to be taking. But yeah, Facebook is is just called down and dirty.

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vicki fisk: It's exactly like our bbs down and dirty with Idaho, Bo and vivacious Vic on Facebook.

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Bo H: Okay.

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vicki fisk: And I am. I am posting the archived. Podcast every time the archive comes up, I post the link, so you can go right on there. And

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vicki fisk: yeah, and lots of articles, lots of photos.

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vicki fisk: Yeah.

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Bo H: Yeah. And we're gonna keep writing our articles. So is there, is there? What? What else can you bring to the table

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Bo H: besides the greens to talk about permaculture, just you know, whatever you can think of off the top of your head. Not a question from me.

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Bo H: Just what? What's the what's

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Bo H: what do you feel is like, okay, I'm asking a question. I just said I wouldn't. But what do you feel is the importance of permaculture

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Bo H: in humanity going forward. I know it's a big question.

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vicki fisk: Okay, well, let's dissect what permaculture stands for permanent perma culture.

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vicki fisk: So it's the earth, you know. So we are creating sustainable Earth stewardship.

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Bo H: Hmm.

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vicki fisk: Right, which is, that's certainly what I have dedicated a great portion of my life to, and I know you have, too, so becoming a steward of the earth means you are taking care of your own little spot

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vicki fisk: that you inhabit, whatever whatever that is, it's different for everybody.

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vicki fisk: and so are you being a good steward?

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vicki fisk: I mean, these are the questions that we have to actually ask ourselves. Can I do something more

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vicki fisk: to enhance my space?

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vicki fisk: Am I doing something wrong? Is is stuff unhappy here? It's not growing. It's not producing. It's like there's no bugs. There's no, you know, pollinators. I mean, these are the things we have to notice

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vicki fisk: and and and pay witness to what we've created around us, and what we surround ourselves with.

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vicki fisk: So it in a nutshell is becoming conscious

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vicki fisk: of our surroundings, and what can we do to to to enhance it

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vicki fisk: and make it more beautiful, more sustainable for our happiness.

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vicki fisk: more healthy for our children and our animals.

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vicki fisk: It's about witnessing

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vicki fisk: the results of how we're living as individuals, as families, as communities, as a nation, as a globe.

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vicki fisk: you can start small, or or go to infinity of just witnessing what what's going on around you, and how can I become a better steward and a better

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vicki fisk: make a make, an a different offering

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vicki fisk: if it's not working for you. Now.

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Bo H: So one of the things you just mentioned reminded me that one of the 1st things in permaculture that you want to do is witness is, observe.

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Bo H: and

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Bo H: in permaculture, and correct me if I'm wrong, Vicki, one of the things it it talks about is paying attention to the

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Bo H: the place you are, be in the moment.

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Bo H: and observe for at least 6 months before you really do start

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Bo H: working on your land, and I can give you a very good example.

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Bo H: I moved in to an apartment in Boise.

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Bo H: and it had a little patio area, and I moved in in late fall. So there was a tree in this little patio area is very, very quaint.

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Bo H: and all the leaves were off of it. I didn't know what kind of tree it was. I didn't really know I had. I was pretty new to Boise at the time, and I didn't know what kind of tree it was.

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Bo H: and me and my little gardening mind, I at that point I was more into ornamental gardening. Like the flowers and all the things like that.

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Bo H: And so throughout the winter I planned this really beautiful little garden, and 1st thing in the spring I went out and bought all the plants and planted them.

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Bo H: and then the leaves on the tree started coming in, and it was a catalpa tree, and Vicki knows catalpa trees. They're absolutely gorgeous. They have these great big, heart-shaped leaves. They're just beautiful.

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Bo H: and they have the most beautiful flowers with the white flowers, with these little purple centers, and they're just gorgeous.

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Bo H: but they create a lot of shade, and the plants that I put in were all sun plants, and so I lost almost every single plant, and that was because I didn't take the time to observe

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Bo H: what I was given, and it goes back to what you were saying before work with what you have.

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Bo H: I was not working with what I had. I was actually doing whatever I wanted to put in. And it didn't work.

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Bo H: And so, yeah, that that observing.

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vicki fisk: Very good.

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Bo H: Important, and and that can be translated into your everyday life is, observe everything before you make a move.

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vicki fisk: Absolutely.

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Bo H: Yeah.

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vicki fisk: Yeah.

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Bo H: Yeah, we have a little bit more time. Is there anything you want to touch on.

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vicki fisk: Well, I I loved. I love the experience of

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vicki fisk: my permaculture training, and it's fun. Because now that we're doing this show, reflecting on that experience. And there's book learning. There were guest speakers that came.

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vicki fisk: one of them was from Canada, and he, you know, there was some talk about creating a greenhouse type environment. You know, we're at 7,200 feet on the side of the Rocky Mountains, and then he's from Canada, where the the nights are long, the days are short, and in the winter, and I think he was from Alberta, Calgary.

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vicki fisk: and he was talking about it's not necessarily how much sunlight you get. It's how much light period that you get, and they dig down. They do. The is it called a wapiti greenhouse, where they dig down deep below the.

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vicki fisk: and then they put a greenhouse roof on so that you can kind of. I mean, we. I learned so many things, and I've always wanted to build a greenhouse like that. I haven't done it yet, but I I don't know that I will, but I loved

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vicki fisk: learning these new things, and all of these things can be adapted. You don't have to do them exactly. This is the thing about human creativity is, we get an idea, and we think we have to do it just like that. But then, no, as things evolve, we evolve

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vicki fisk: the the systems and the techniques to.

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vicki fisk: to adapt to our life to adapt to our property, to adapt to our region. And that's the fun of it is learning learning new things. And then, oh, wow!

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vicki fisk: I could do that, but I don't quite have this, but I could do it this way, and it's really fun to learn to see what you create with what you've got, and I learned a lot of those kinds of the chicken tractor.

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vicki fisk: The chicken tractor is so brilliant because it keeps the chickens safe from predators. You move it around, they dig, they do pest control, they fertilize, they churn up the little bit of the topsoil, and then they do all the harvesting once. Once you've got all this stuff off of like

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vicki fisk: your tomatoes, and you and you chop them down. They're done for the season. Put the chicken tractor in there. I mean, there's so many simple little things that I have been able to reflect on from that experience that are very meaningful, very practical, and very, very doable.

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Bo H: You want to. You want to address food forest real quickly. We have probably about another 5 min.

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vicki fisk: For us.

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Bo H: Food forests.

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vicki fisk: Oh, wow! Well.

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Bo H: Do you remember? Do you remember? I can't remember the guy's name. Think his 1st name was Tom. We went over to his house years ago.

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vicki fisk: Yeah, and he had a food forest in his front yard. It was absolutely gorgeous.

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Bo H: And he had one of the underground

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Bo H: greenhouses like you're speaking of, and he used to have people over, and he would give classes.

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vicki fisk: Oh, yeah.

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Bo H: But food forests you, you plant. So things come up at different times, and you harvest one thing, and then the other thing grows up taller. There's so many. There's so many systems within permaculture

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Bo H: that work with the land instead of against it.

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Bo H: And I think I think

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Bo H: I think probably one of the biggest things that we talked about today is the chop and drop because that's very important

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Bo H: it is

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Bo H: yeah and utilizing what you have on your land, and you do have a lot of concrete.

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Bo H: I do have a lot of comfrey. If anybody ever wants any.

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vicki fisk: I've got it. You can chop it, or you can take a start.

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Bo H: No anything else. Well, you, I mean, even in your front yard you've got an espaliate pear. You've got goji berries.

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Bo H: That's kind of like a little food forest in your front yard. And right now you're red hot.

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vicki fisk: Oh, yeah.

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Bo H: Aren't edible, but they're absolutely gorgeous.

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Bo H: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Food Force is is a really nice thing that he did in Boise. We we're the city of trees.

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vicki fisk: And he had a lot of tall trees, and then around the bottom of all those trees he had different layers and different light

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vicki fisk: depending on the exposure at different times of the year. And then, of course, the heavy mulching

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vicki fisk: it's another technique that really is very, very powerful for water conservation.

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vicki fisk: and you find the symbiosis between these different plants. They feed on one another, they help naturally fertilize each other. They naturally do pest control.

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vicki fisk: and you've got almost year round food with those kinds of yeah.

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vicki fisk: it's very, very beautiful. And he did the Biochar, too. Remember, he showed us yeah.

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vicki fisk: he had his barrel barrel, and he and he, you know, had so much

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vicki fisk: branches and things that he would harvest, and he let it dry out, and then make his own Biochar, which is a whole. Another subject. I've never done that, and I've never really worked with that. But that's also a very powerful feeder for plants.

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Bo H: And then we took a we took a

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Bo H: a field trip out to I can't remember where it was, but the guy that had the big the big lot, and he was. He had hula culture. He was doing.

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vicki fisk: Oh, yeah.

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Bo H: Oh, yeah, he's doing all.

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vicki fisk: Yeah.

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Bo H: Permaculture. We, I mean, we could do another whole show on permaculture different aspects of permaculture different systems.

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Bo H: But I think you know, we're probably getting close to to wrapping up. Is there anything you'd like to close with? Vic?

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vicki fisk: No, just just do it. Don't be afraid. Go out, explore and and and express yourself.

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vicki fisk: and don't just do it.

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vicki fisk: Just pick one thing. You just pick one thing and go out and try it. See how you do with it. It's fun.

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Bo H: It is fun, and you know it's addicting. You know you.

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vicki fisk: Oh, yeah.

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Bo H: Talking about in the beginning and making a commitment. If you just start

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Bo H: just one seed, just one seed, you just start

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Bo H: and you will, you will be captivated for life. You will never, ever be bored if you start a garden.

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Bo H: and then build on that grow on that.

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vicki fisk: Yeah, yeah.

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Bo H: And dirty.

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vicki fisk: Get down and dirty. Thank you.

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Bo H: I think that's a good place. I think that's a good place to wrap it up. I love you so much, Vic.

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vicki fisk: I love you, too, and thank you everybody for stopping by.

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Bo H: We'll see you next time.

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vicki fisk: All right.

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Bo H: Bye.