[00:11] Speaker 1: Have you ever wondered how sound can heal, inspire and transform your life? What if the vibrations around you could unlock your true potential and guide you to a deeper sense of harmony? Welcome to Sound Pathways, the groundbreaking journey into the healing power of sound, creativity and connection, with your host, Dr. Karen Olson. In each episode, she explores the profound link between your mind, body and spirit, from composers and musicians to sound healers and visionary leaders. She'll dive into captivating conversations that reveal how sound shapes your reality, heals our wounds, and helps us manifest our dreams. And guess what? You're part of the conversation. So call in and ask questions, and experience personalized sound healing live, and let your sound be your guide to the life you've always dreamed of.

[01:17] Speaker 2: Welcome to Sound Pathways, where music and creativity meets mind, body and spirit. I'm Karen, and today we're traveling the world through breath and sound. I am so excited to welcome our guest, the amazing Ron Korb, a master flautist known across Asia as the Flute Traveler. Ron, welcome.

[01:40] Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me, Karen.

[01:41] Speaker 2: This is so exciting.

[01:42] Speaker 3: And, like I said, yesterday you scared the hell out of me.

[01:46] Speaker 2: (laughs) Yeah.

[01:47] Speaker 3: Like, I was at dinner with these two French jazz musicians here in Taiwan, and my phone rings and it's 9:00 PM and I'm thinking ... and it's Karen Olson. I'm thinking, "Oh my God, did I-"

[01:59] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[01:59] Speaker 3: "... mess up the time or something?" And of course, the place was totally inappropriate. It's a noisy restaurant.

[02:04] Speaker 2: (laughs) Yeah.

[02:06] Speaker 3: And I thought, "Oh, my God."

[02:06] Speaker 2: And I think I was sleeping or something like that, so-

[02:08] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

[02:09] Speaker 2: So this is, this is better. So thank you. Sorry for the scare.

[02:13] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[02:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[02:13] Speaker 3: N- no prob- I mean, it is confusing with the 13-hour-

[02:16] Speaker 2: That is amazing.

[02:17] Speaker 3: ... time change. Yeah, so.

[02:18] Speaker 2: And you travel. You were ... I saw you in LA and then you were in Tokyo, I think, and then you're in Taiwan and-

[02:24] Speaker 3: Well, we saw-

[02:24] Speaker 2: ... 1980, whatever.

[02:24] Speaker 3: ... each other in New York, remember? We first saw each other in New York.

[02:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

[02:28] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[02:29] Speaker 2: It's, it's an exciting life you have, so we're gonna be kind of vicariously-

[02:35] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[02:35] Speaker 2: ... traveling with you today, tonight. Yeah.

[02:38] Speaker 3: Right.

[02:38] Speaker 2: So it's, it's just amazing. I, I just love your playing. It's so transportive and amazing and it's, it's hard to even ... You can't even describe it, but it really is otherworldly and just takes you around the world. And it's also exciting that you've been a huge part of so many projects, two that were Grammy Award winning and two that were Grammy nominated, and now you received the very prestigious Canadian Juno Award nomination. So what does it feel like to be part of these amazingly creative, winning projects and what do they teach you and how do they shape your sound and your confidence in your creative process?

[03:23] Speaker 3: Hm. Well, I mean, of course it's a, it's a huge honor to be, um, associated with a lot of these projects and, uh, it's always great to ... Uh, for me, collaboration is really the, um, most, I don't know, rewarding or enriching part of being a musician, that you can play with other musicians and you can work with other producers and... And as you say, you always learn so much from each producer and I kind of even wanted to mention, like ... You've sort of seen in my bio I've done a lot of studio work, I've played on a lot of feature films and worked on other people's albums, you know, for, for gen- like, for decades. And it really does pull you out of yourself. When you're just working on your own album, you know, you have your own thoughts and you have your own sort of idea of how you're going to, to do this or how you're even going to play the flute, and, and how you're even going to phrase.

[04:15] Speaker 3: But when you work with other people, of course they, they have all these suggestions about, you know, how they want it played and how ... And, and it gives you ideas as well, gives you stim- stimulation. And sometimes people ask you for what seems like the impossible, and actually it is possible, you know, and you realize, "Wow, I ... You actually can do this if you do this, this and this." And so I-

[04:37] Speaker 2: Can you give us an example?

[04:39] Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually, you know, a long time ago I was playing on this TV show called Black Harbor and it, it was, um, it was a Canadian television show and it was, uh, it had a Celtic theme to it. And there was one cue, what we call a cue, like one scene, where they wanted it to sound sort of Arabic. And I didn't really have any Arabic, uh, instrument that I brought in the studio that day, but what I did is I took the low whistle and I just kind of took the, that, the top of it off and I kind of played it like an, a ney. You know, because I tried this, they didn't like it, I tried that, they didn't like it.

[05:18] Speaker 2: What, what's a ney? Is that ... I'm thinking of a, the embouchure of a trombone player or something, but what's a ney?

[05:23] Speaker 3: No. Ney is kind of more like a shakuhachi, it's like a, it's an end blown flute from the Middle East-

[05:29] Speaker 2: Oh, okay.

[05:29] Speaker 3: ... and Turkey and these places. And so, you know, by doing that, I could create this sort of very breathy, sort of exotic sound.

[05:37] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[05:37] Speaker 3: And it was just like ... Because I just had to do it. You just have to make it happen-

[05:41] Speaker 2: He's so talented.

[05:42] Speaker 3: ... and, and here now ... And, but, you see, I realized, well, you can do this and you can do that, and sometimes, again, we limit ourselves because we have all these rules in our head, um ...

[05:54] Speaker 2: Hm.

[05:54] Speaker 3: And, and of course you, you studied as a classical musician. I had classical training too and, you know, you, you're taught you have to do this, this, this, this and this.

[06:01] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[06:01] Speaker 3: And sometimes, like I say, working with other people, it breaks you out of that, especially if they're coming from a completely different culture, um, and it ... Or a completely different, uh, intent of the music.... it can really help to sort of expand your whole, your whole palette, actually. Yeah.

[06:19] Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Kind of applies to our lives too, right?

[06:21] Speaker 3: Exactly.

[06:22] Speaker 2: That we kind of didn't do this-

[06:23] Speaker 3: It applies to our lives too.

[06:24] Speaker 2: ... and I can't do that. Somebody else is better at that, and, and the really, one thing I've loved about meeting people like you and all the other people in these, doing these really big, amazing projects, it's just there's no limit. And it's like we're all expressing ourselves and it doesn't feel competitive, which is kind of surprising-

[06:44] Speaker 3: Hmm.

[06:44] Speaker 2: ... and so, such a relief. It's so freeing that we can build each other, inspire each other, and it's the best of what it could be. So I'm thinking that, well, uh, this interview, I wish it was for days, but, um-

[07:01] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[07:01] Speaker 2: ... I'm just now thinking that each one of your flutes must feel like a family member and each one took you to different parts of the world to learn that voice. Do they-

[07:12] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[07:12] Speaker 2: How many do you have? Have you counted lately?

[07:15] Speaker 3: (clicks tongue) Well, I haven't counted lately, but I generally say I have 250 flutes.

[07:20] Speaker 2: Wow.

[07:21] Speaker 3: And I have these cabinets, um, back in Toronto where, you know, I store them all.

[07:26] Speaker 2: Aww.

[07:26] Speaker 3: I have them all categorized. Um, I mean, that said, I mean, maybe it sounds a little bit more impressive than it actually is 'cause a lot of the flutes are actually quite similar. Um, you know, they're just in different keys or, or what, what have you. But, um, yeah, I have quite a bit of, of, of a collection.

[07:45] Speaker 2: Wow.

[07:45] Speaker 3: And-

[07:45] Speaker 2: I bet, yeah.

[07:47] Speaker 3: And, and like, I guess, what you were, you were kind of alluding to is like when you learn how to play them, um, you know, sometimes you take lessons and of course, nowadays, a lot of people just watch YouTube. But I'm more the person who likes to get in touch with someone who plays the instrument and get a little bit of foundation. And sometimes, of course, like once you've learned quite a few of them, uh, you sort of can just apply a lot of your knowledge. Like, for instance, in Asia, there's many different kinds of transverse flutes, but they all basically work the same. So then it becomes more a thing about the, the, the particular tradition and theory of that particular country and so, um, that's more what you're, you're actually trying to find and trying to discover.

[08:36] Speaker 2: (clicks tongue) That's one thing I, I really find so amazing and unusual and fascinating is that instead of like just pulling up a YouTube video, it seemed as if you'd go to that country, no matter how far away it was-

[08:51] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[08:51] Speaker 2: ... on the other side of the world, and you'd live there and become part of the culture because really music is a voice of that culture and, and it makes you ... It's just something that you couldn't put words to and you couldn't teach AI, you know, explains this is how you create that, but you-

[09:09] Speaker 3: Hmm.

[09:09] Speaker 2: ... you're really the master.

[09:11] Speaker 3: Oh, well thank you for saying that. I mean, particularly like years ago, um, like if I wanted to get ... I mean, I wanted to, to buy the, um, suling from Indonesia, so I literally did go to-

[09:24] Speaker 2: Wow.

[09:25] Speaker 3: ... um, you know, not, not only Bali, but, uh, you know, I, I traveled throughout Indonesia trying to find-

[09:33] Speaker 2: Wow.

[09:33] Speaker 3: ... these certain instruments. And of course, when you actually get there and find the flute maker, I mean, they're dirt cheap. They're only, you know, a dollar fifty.

[09:40] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[09:40] Speaker 3: (laughs) Dollar fifty or something. But again, I guess, what you're alluding to is just being in the place, being in the culture-

[09:49] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[09:49] Speaker 3: ... hearing the sounds, the sounds of the street and street vendors yelling out and, and sort of kind of absorbing, uh, you know, even in a superficial way, but absorbing that culture and sort of knowing. I mean, so many times we can just read a book or even watch a film, you get a certain picture of it, but it's not really the true picture because whenever we're making a film or a video or like I said, even writing a book, you're constantly editing, right?

[10:16] Speaker 3: You're not-

[10:17] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[10:17] Speaker 3: ... putting in everything else there. When you, but when you actually go to the place you see everything. You know, you see, um, like in the case of going to the Third World, you'll see, um, uh, all kinds of cultural things. You'll see abject poverty and actually experience it. I remember when I took a bus from Jakarta to Bandung and it took, I don't know, at least 16 hours or something.

[10:42] Speaker 2: No.

[10:43] Speaker 3: I was told like not to take that bus, to take ... There's a tourist bus that's much more comfortable and air conditioned and I, I, I just didn't wanna wait another six hours. So I said, "No, I just, I just wanna go on the bus with all the locals." And there are literally people with, with chickens in little cages and things like that.

[11:00] Speaker 2: Wow.

[11:00] Speaker 3: And, um, I was actually sick at the time too. Of course, now no one would do that ever since COVID, we're, we're so paranoid. But back then I had a cold and it kind of cured me of the cold because it was so hot in that bus.

[11:13] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[11:14] Speaker 3: It kind of just a- after that bus trip I was, I was cured. But it was, it was hard, hard-going, even, you know, of course, I was, you know, only in, I guess, my late 20s at that point, but it, it, uh-

[11:26] Speaker 2: Sweet.

[11:26] Speaker 3: But, you know, you can't really ... I mean, this experience like that is not something that you can just, again, read in a book or watch in a movie, and, uh-

[11:36] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[11:36] Speaker 3: ... you know, 'cause all those boring parts and all those horrible parts are cut out and, uh, you know, you sort of ... And I, one ... People were getting on and off the bus, so one guy was a soldier and he sat next to me, but he actually knew quite a bit about Indonesian dance. So he was sort of teaching me some of the, sort of like the significance of some of the, you know, the-

[11:59] Speaker 2: Oh.

[11:59] Speaker 3: ... the dance and how they, they use their fingers and what each little thing, gesture means and things. I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing, you know, meeting-

[12:08] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[12:08] Speaker 3: ... just meeting random people and, uh-

[12:12] Speaker 2: Wow.

[12:12] Speaker 3: ... you know, it's in- incredible.... things in, on the journey. But it is true now, we tend to, whatever it is we wanna do, we wanna learn how to drywall, (laughs) our, our kitchen or whatever, we just always go to YouTube or TikTok, and it's just right there, you know? It's, it's, you know, it's so instantaneous. But, um, I feel very fortunate that I was able to kind of have these, these experiences, and continue to, and meet people like yourself, you know?

[12:39] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[12:39] Speaker 3: We just met, I guess, December? I think we met in December. Not that long ago.

[12:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're, you've always been so supportive. I appreciate-

[12:48] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[12:48] Speaker 2: ... it so much, and it's so amazing to get to experience those stories with you. I'd love to watch a documentary on you one day and... 'cause it's-

[12:56] Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, Val. There isn't one. (laughs)

[12:58] Speaker 2: ... beautiful.

[12:59] Speaker 3: Maybe we could work on that. (laughs)

[13:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. That would be so fun.

[13:02] Speaker 3: Well, I guess there are some documentaries. I mean, there certainly are documentaries I'm involved with-

[13:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[13:07] Speaker 3: ... uh, as a talking head, but...

[13:09] Speaker 2: Wow.

[13:09] Speaker 3: Um, yeah. Anyway, but just, and just the last point is, you're right, it's not really competitive. I mean, true collaboration is sort of mutually supportive, and that's what I like about so many of the people that I've been able to collaborate with in the last, I don't know, I guess the last five years. Um, it's, it's that mutually collaborative thing, and you're working on this thing together, and it just, it, it's, to me-

[13:34] Speaker 2: It's a-

[13:34] Speaker 3: ... it's the most fun thing. You know, working, like, with-

[13:36] Speaker 2: Really exciting, and such a high level.

[13:38] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, that's right, and, and, like, really high level pl- players and people that you meet. So, yeah.

[13:45] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Wow.

[13:45] Speaker 3: It's, it's, it's... I would say that's the most rewarding part of, um, of being a musician, and even, I think it's even gonna be more so, like, uh, you mentioned AI, even more so going forward, it's gonna be, again, the human connection, right?

[14:00] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[14:01] Speaker 3: The one thing that actually, um, scares, uh, scares me about AI is I hope it just doesn't become yet another thing where people become more and more isolated.

[14:11] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[14:11] Speaker 3: Because now you can... You don't need to have a writer to write your bio or this and that. You can do it with ChatGBT, and then, so you don't need it, and it just becomes like you're just this one person doing everything, and that people will be even more socially isolated.

[14:28] Speaker 2: Hmm. Well.

[14:30] Speaker 3: Um...

[14:30] Speaker 2: Music can bring them together, right?

[14:32] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[14:33] Speaker 2: But, yeah.

[14:33] Speaker 3: I think so. And I think maybe the nature of what music is and its role in society will change. I mean, for the last, I don't know, let's say, particularly sin- let's say since the '70s, and when, when, uh, selling records really became a thing, it was very much a commercial thing. And, and now that's not really part of what it is. I mean, sure, there's streaming and, and there's still ways to make money in touring and stuff, but it's, it's been radically diminished. Um...

[15:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[15:02] Speaker 3: But maybe that's a good thing in some respects, because people who actually do wanna participate in music are maybe participating in it, in it for a different reason, you know? More to feel, again, connection with other people, connection with nature, connection, you know, with the good parts of society and culture and...

[15:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, and the different cultures.

[15:24] Speaker 3: Yes.

[15:25] Speaker 2: And how we're similar.

[15:27] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

[15:28] Speaker 2: And it's... The music can really show us that. So you began on the recorder, and you joined a Irish fife and drum band, I read.

[15:37] Speaker 3: Yep.

[15:38] Speaker 2: And from-

[15:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[15:38] Speaker 2: ... these simple beginnings, you are traveling the world. So, was there a moment when you realized that this is really bigger than your technique and it's a calling?

[15:49] Speaker 3: Uh, yes. That's a great question. I'm trying to think, was there a moment in time? I, I told this story, like, like, recently that, um, y- you know, when you, you kind of are talking to your teachers, and they tell you, uh, you know, "It's so hard to make it in music," and blah, blah, blah.

[16:08] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[16:09] Speaker 3: And, and there's all that kinda discouraging talk. And I had one teacher, and he wasn't even a flute player, he was a clarinetist. His name was Blago Simonov. And he told me, "Listen, Ron, you're talented. Why don't you do this? Just make this contract with me. You're gonna devote all your time to music for the next three years." Because I also had this idea of becoming a filmmaker.

[16:31] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[16:31] Speaker 3: And he said... And he, he was so disparaging of filmmaking. He thought, "Oh, filmmaking, I mean, anybody can do that. I mean, you look, take a course for six months, and you, that's all you need."

[16:41] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[16:41] Speaker 3: Whereas music, of course, you know, music is something that takes, you know, uh, you know, decades and decades and decades of really, you know, focused, uh, work. And so he said, "Focus for three years, and if after the three years you don't feel like you got anywhere or you're not achieving what you wanna achieve, then go into filmmaking." And that was the best advice, because he just took that whole, all the doubts and stuff just out of my brain. I thought, "Okay, I'm just gonna focus on this." And I was doing everything. I was swimming every day. I was like... It was almost like Rocky, (laughs) you know, that Rocky thing.

[17:17] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[17:17] Speaker 3: You know?

[17:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[17:18] Speaker 3: Where he's doing all these calisthenics and doing all the, the, of course, technical exercises-

[17:22] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[17:22] Speaker 3: ... and learning all this repertoire. And I just focused like that, and I had no sort of other thoughts in my brain.

[17:31] Speaker 2: Wow.

[17:31] Speaker 3: And that was, that was really an amazing thing. And it was funny, too, because you would even ask, why did I study with a clarinet player when I was a flute player? Because I was studying with a flute teacher, but, I don't know, we just didn't have any simpatico. And a friend of mine, who was a, a woodwind doubler, said, "You know, a lot of us studied with this guy, and you might just find, you know, why don't you give him, y- again, take a few lessons and see how it goes?" And, uh, with Blago, he totally changed a lot of my perceptions of things.

[18:08] Speaker 2: Wow.

[18:08] Speaker 3: And that's, that's really, really important, you know, uh, for a young player. And, uh, so... But like I said, uh...I, so I would say that almost is the moment. I, I would say there's probably other moments where actually I graduated from university. Um, I went to the University of Toronto, the Faculty of Music. Which, after I graduated from there, then there were other things that happened where you kinda go, "Now I'm professional." You know?

[18:37] Speaker 3: Like, there's that-

[18:38] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[18:38] Speaker 3: ... there's that shift from just purely being a student. Yes, you're doing some gigs, you're getting paid some money, but that switching point where you just, it clicks and now I'm a professional musician and this is what I do. And that probably happens, I would say, a few years after university where I was actually had a little new age music company with a partner.

[19:01] Speaker 2: Oh.

[19:01] Speaker 3: And we started making albums.

[19:04] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[19:05] Speaker 3: And that's when I realized there's this whole other dimension to, to what a musician can be, right? You can be a writer, producer, composer.

[19:14] Speaker 2: Yes.

[19:15] Speaker 3: You know, it's... Yeah.

[19:15] Speaker 2: Wow, that's beautiful.

[19:16] Speaker 3: Mm.

[19:17] Speaker 2: So you've been given these titles like the Prince of Flutes in Japan, the Dragon Flute in China.

[19:24] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[19:24] Speaker 2: What do, what do those, um, mean to you musically and personally? And do you know how you were given those titles? Along with the Flute Traveler?

[19:33] Speaker 3: Right. Well, Flute Traveler actually was the name of an album that I did in 1994.

[19:39] Speaker 2: Oh, very fitting.

[19:41] Speaker 3: And, and then, then it kinda became a kind of a nickname.

[19:45] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[19:45] Speaker 3: And, um, and of course it was, we had a sales, uh, rep at the time who was doing our distribution. He kinda said it's... Of course he thought of Blues Traveler, right?

[19:55] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[19:55] Speaker 3: But he said, "You really are like a flute traveler, because you play the flute and-"

[19:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[19:59] Speaker 3: "... you travel around the world."

[20:00] Speaker 2: So perfect.

[20:01] Speaker 3: And, um, the Prince of Flutes, that was, um, I, I, I did an album with, uh, Domo Records in Japan, which was Kitaro's label, actually. And they, we did this, an album called Madamina Tomoe which, f- quite frankly, was a kinda compilation album of some of my other songs. And it was at that point that in their... You know, you know in the Japanese album, like a, a, a disc they have like that little cardboard thing in Japanese explaining?

[20:38] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[20:38] Speaker 3: We call it obi, because it's like, like, like the obi-

[20:41] Speaker 2: Yes.

[20:41] Speaker 3: ... that you put around a kimono? Well, on the obi there, that's where it, it called me the Prince of Flutes.

[20:47] Speaker 2: Mm.

[20:47] Speaker 3: And so, so that was nice. So it, it was really just a record company, the, like Kitaro's people came up with that. And then Dragon Flute was a little different. I did an album called Taming the Dragon, and here, it actually was first released here in Taiwan through a, a record company called Jingo Records. And, uh, I have a funny story about that, because they gave me this funny name called Lien Kebo, which was, you know, Ron Corb and they thought Lien Kebo was a good name. And they didn't tell me about it, I had no, no input on it. And I am half Japanese, so I understand, I mean, I don't read, uh, Kanji, uh, perfectly, but I do understand how the Chinese characters work. Like, I mean, if you look even on this box it's like, I mean, these are Chinese characters, right?

[21:42] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[21:42] Speaker 3: And Chinese characters have a sound, but they also have a meaning. And I didn't like the meaning of this Lien Kebo, and basically Lien was the same way they had, um, translated Saving Private Ryan. Ryan, they thought Ron, Ryan, same thing.

[22:00] Speaker 2: Ah.

[22:00] Speaker 3: And I, I just didn't like it. I just didn't like it. I didn't like the meaning, I didn't like the fact that each character didn't really make sense. It's just a jumble of characters, which is often the way they do, um, uh, translate a person's name.

[22:15] Speaker 2: Hm.

[22:15] Speaker 3: Like a foreigner's name. Like an American or Canadian's name, or British person. They just kind of put the letters together to make this, it sound similar, right? But, to me, I want a name that not only sounds good but looks good.

[22:31] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[22:31] Speaker 3: So I, when we did Taming the Dragon, they used the word, uh, Dragon Flute even in the promo. They just-

[22:40] Speaker 2: Hm.

[22:40] Speaker 3: ... kinda came up with it. But, for me, like in Chinese, Long, or dragon, Long, sounds pretty similar to Ron actually. It's-

[22:51] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[22:51] Speaker 3: In fact it's almost as close as you can get. And Di is the flute. So you get the, the symbol for dragon and the symbol for flute. And it's beautiful to look at.

[23:00] Speaker 2: Ah.

[23:00] Speaker 3: And I actually can even sign that in Chinese.

[23:03] Speaker 2: Wow.

[23:04] Speaker 3: And so that, that became my moniker there. So I, I like Long being... And anybody can pronounce it. Like, anybody in China or Taiwan or, anybody can pronounce it. It sounds good in English, it sounds good in, in, uh, Chinese. And even Japanese, if you were to see Japanese, of course you'd pronounce it different. But the, the, visually it has impact. So that's how that-

[23:28] Speaker 2: Hm. That's beautiful.

[23:30] Speaker 3: ... how that... Yeah.

[23:31] Speaker 2: How many language, or what languages do you know?

[23:35] Speaker 3: Oh, I, I don't really... I mean, I speak Japanese okay. I speak Francais okay. Like I, you know, not fluently but I can understand quite a bit. But, uh, and Chinese, of course I've been learning in little dribs and drabs. Um, but, no, I, I really just... (laughs) I really just, I really just speak English badly, um, is the way to put it.

[24:04] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[24:05] Speaker 3: Um, I, I wish I grew up speaking... Oh, I mean, I, I, I really wish I, I grew up speaking Chinese because Chinese is such a useful language. I mean, my wife is Taiwanese and I'm amazed at how useful it is anywhere. Like in Toronto-

[24:24] Speaker 2: Oh.

[24:24] Speaker 3: ... there's quite a big...... bit of Chinese community. But if you go into a Chinese store speaking Chinese or a Chinese restaurant, it's a totally different experience-

[24:33] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[24:33] Speaker 3: ... than going in there just speaking English. And even when we go to places like Spain, I mean, there's (laughs) some Chinese person there. I mean, you can use it almost all the time. And, uh, and French, of course, is a beautiful language. And in Canada, of course, it's quite significant. I mean, I have done interviews in French and stuff, but I don't really speak it well enough, you know, so.

[24:54] Speaker 2: Oh.

[24:55] Speaker 3: How about yourself? Do you speak any other languages?

[24:57] Speaker 2: No, just some French. At the time, I could speak it, um, and I'd like to go back to, um, being able to speak it and write it. But, no, I wish I knew more. I guess we have to say music's a universal language, right? But...

[25:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, a lot of people attribute my language speaking, like they, they think I'm way better than I am because let's... For instance, I could do a concert in Japanese, and I can speak Japanese to the audience and I, I sound better than I actually am. Like, I, maybe because we're musicians, I'm sure you too, if you were to study any of these languages, you know, your musical ear will make your pronunciation better. But I don't really have the vocabulary depth.

[25:41] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[25:41] Speaker 3: You know, that's uh... You know, so like I said, sometimes people attribute my language speaking way better than I actually am.

[25:48] Speaker 2: Oh.

[25:48] Speaker 3: I mean, I can sing a s- I can sing a song in Chinese. I've done that in public, but... And of course, with Chinese, there's the tonal differences between the way the words are pronounced, which is a very difficult thing for any European person to learn, you know.

[26:04] Speaker 2: Wow.

[26:04] Speaker 3: But, uh...

[26:05] Speaker 2: That must be amazing.

[26:05] Speaker 3: And I mean, and if the tone is wrong, it has a completely different meaning, right? So, yeah.

[26:10] Speaker 2: (laughs) That could cause trouble, I would think.

[26:12] Speaker 3: Well, actually, to be honest, singing it's a little bit more forgiving because there's the musical tones.

[26:18] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[26:18] Speaker 3: It, it's not as critical as when you speak, you know?

[26:23] Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow.

[26:23] Speaker 3: You know? Like, uh, there's so... There's even some tongue twisters. I, I don't know them, but, you know, like the word shì. There's so many different ways to, to pronounce shì and they're all slightly different, you know? And it's, it's, it's an incredible, it's an incredible language. And of course just most... Uh, like Japanese is of course based on Chinese too, because it's almost, you can almost say Chinese is the root of, of Asian languages.

[26:51] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. I didn't know that.

[26:51] Speaker 3: Just like Latin is the root of all the European languages.

[26:54] Speaker 2: Wow, that's so beautiful. I, I've had s- uh, quite a small exposure to Asia, but I got to have a trip to Japan twice.

[27:07] Speaker 3: Mm.

[27:07] Speaker 2: For two weeks each, and that was amazing. Just such great memories. It was with an orchestra, so.

[27:12] Speaker 3: Lovely.

[27:13] Speaker 2: I'd love to go again, but it's fun... Do you go there regularly?

[27:17] Speaker 3: Well, y- yes, a- actually, I mean, especially now since we actually have this place in Taiwan. We're going to use this as kind of like our, our Snowbird. (laughs)

[27:28] Speaker 2: That's so cool.

[27:30] Speaker 3: Our Snowbird. Because I mean, it's like, I mean in Fahrenheit, I mean, of course in Canada we use Celsius, it's about 23 Celsius, about 75 degrees here.

[27:38] Speaker 2: Nice.

[27:39] Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's, it's a great place to go in the, um, in the wintertime. Whereas Japan, for instance, is not that warm. Like we were just in Tokyo and it's, it's about, I don't know, 55, 58.

[27:54] Speaker 2: Mm.

[27:55] Speaker 3: Maybe, maybe 60 degrees, you know, and, and actually going below freezing. There's snow there.

[28:00] Speaker 2: Mm.

[28:01] Speaker 3: Um, so, but, but Taiwan is a tropical country, pretty much, so.

[28:06] Speaker 2: I didn't know that.

[28:07] Speaker 3: Um, and if you come here in December it's really hot. It's, it's just unbelievable hot.

[28:13] Speaker 2: Oh.

[28:13] Speaker 3: So when, when you were in Japan, where did you go? Do you remember which cities you-

[28:16] Speaker 2: Well, it was mostly Tokyo, but I went to Kyoto and I was, um, just became a Reiki master, so I went-

[28:22] Speaker 3: Okay.

[28:22] Speaker 2: ... to Mount Kurama where it started, and of course I thought everyone in Japan would know about Reiki and nobody had heard of it. But I some- how miraculously ended up with a family with a big Reiki master and we went up to all the altars, each one having a theme, and then it would like just rain on me and all these amazing things happened and it was a beautiful experience.

[28:44] Speaker 3: Hmm.

[28:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[28:45] Speaker 3: Well, I mean, Japan is a very accessible place to go now. I mean, it, the cost is... I mean, it's pretty much the cheapest country in the world.

[28:52] Speaker 2: I didn't know that.

[28:54] Speaker 3: Because of the low Japanese yen. I mean, it's very affordable and...

[29:00] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[29:00] Speaker 3: I mean, United States is expensive, like, like New York is unbelievably (laughs) pricey.

[29:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[29:07] Speaker 3: You know, but no, Tokyo, even Tokyo is quite reasonable.

[29:12] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[29:12] Speaker 3: And the food is reasonable and the, the train system is incredible. So it's very easy to get around. And there's English signs everywhere and there's quite a bit of English language assistance, you know, and of course now with our cell phones you, you can just-

[29:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[29:29] Speaker 3: ... you know, it's so easy.

[29:29] Speaker 2: Wow. So you really are such a traveler. So you must have so many... Your passport must have so many stamps. What do you think?

[29:37] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[29:37] Speaker 2: What stamp do you think you're the proudest of?

[29:39] Speaker 3: Ooh, what's, what stamp I'm the most proud? Maybe Cambodia.

[29:43] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[29:44] Speaker 3: Um, just because, I mean, again, uh, nowadays travel is more accessible than it used to. But back when I went to Cambodia, I mean, that was really like hardly anybody went there.

[29:58] Speaker 2: Wow.

[29:58] Speaker 3: Um, you know, whereas now, I mean, lot... There's so many trips and things. And like I said, Japan is actually overrun with tourists. I mean, there's too many tourists.

[30:08] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[30:08] Speaker 3: That's the problem now because whereas it used to be, when I lived there in the '90s, I mean, it was considered so expensive that everyone was scared to go there, right? Because they, they didn't, they couldn't... You know, we had all these stories about the $50...... uh, you know, grapefruit and all that stuff. And it just scared everybody away. But now, word has gone out that it's not that expensive. And so it's actually overrun with tourists, you know?

[30:37] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[30:37] Speaker 3: The temples are packed with tourists and stuff. So actually, going in January or February, March is a good time to go because it's low season.

[30:47] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[30:47] Speaker 3: You know, 'cause if you go in the summer, it's just way too many tourists in Japan.

[30:52] Speaker 2: Oh.

[30:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[30:53] Speaker 2: So do you-

[30:53] Speaker 3: But, but to just to answer your question, I'm planning to come every year now because we have this place and-

[30:58] Speaker 2: Oh, that's great.

[30:59] Speaker 3: Taiwan's only about an hour, hour and a half trip. I think, is it, is it that short? Anyway, two-hour flight from Tokyo. So it's-

[31:08] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[31:08] Speaker 3: ... it's quite easy to, to travel. Yeah.

[31:11] Speaker 2: Wow. That's exciting life.

[31:14] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[31:14] Speaker 2: So getting back to the flute.

[31:16] Speaker 3: Not as exciting as your life.

[31:17] Speaker 2: Ah. (laughs)

[31:19] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[31:20] Speaker 2: Well, I'll have to, I'll think about that. But thank you.

[31:23] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[31:24] Speaker 2: Um, so breath is such a, to me, it's, it's such a-

[31:27] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[31:27] Speaker 2: ... part of the flute and I was just wondering what you do to prepare, um, to play, like to prepare your breath.

[31:38] Speaker 3: Sure.

[31:38] Speaker 2: Is it in your body or listening, or what, what do you think has formed your ability to, to express in that way and what would be like a mistake you could make with your breath?

[31:51] Speaker 3: Well, when I was a student, I mean, I studied breath quite a bit. I mean, now I don't really think about it or, like, do, like, preparation work or anything like that to play a concert or anything. But, um, there are certain exercises you can do to strengthen your, your breathing ability. And, um, I, I think, you know, a lot of the things, like just taking in a, a big breath, holding it, and then just slowly-

[32:20] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[32:20] Speaker 3: ... slowly, like, breathing out, like that kind of thing. And, um, that, that's very, that's a very good practice and it's very meditative too, you know, to do. Um-

[32:31] Speaker 2: Does it feel like a prayer or like fuel coming, like the, the breath coming through, comes through you and then through the flute? And does your sound change, like if you're a little anxious or if you're really calm? Is that an aspect of it?

[32:47] Speaker 3: Yeah. I would say, I would say flute is, is almost equivalent to the voice in the sense of the way the sound is produced, the way the breath is done. Um, well, I shouldn't maybe say the way the sound is produced because of course the sound is produced in your vocal cords. But everything else about it, the way you use the diaphragm, the w- the, of course, the, the breath is traveling through your mouth. Um, people can argue that actually your instrument, the viola or the violin, is more, um, vocal sounding than the flute.

[33:22] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[33:22] Speaker 3: But in terms of the way the production and everything happens and, and to me, I feel the sound too, it's, it's very, very vocal. And so, um, it's one of the great things about playing flute, I think, is that you get this really, you know, this sound really rings in your head.

[33:42] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[33:42] Speaker 3: Just like it does when you sing. When you sing, you have that kind of vibration that you feel in your body.

[33:48] Speaker 2: Oh, you mean almost the overtones are ringing in your head?

[33:51] Speaker 3: It's not just the overtones, but the fundamental sound too.

[33:54] Speaker 2: Wow.

[33:54] Speaker 3: It, I mean, it's not overpowering and you, but you can, you feel this, this thing and a lot of times, and I'm sure as a professional musician, you have to take a bus to go to here and there's a rehearsal and you don't know the people and there's all this anxiety and the music's maybe very challenging and you haven't practiced enough, and you know, even though you're playing music, it's act- (laughs) actually quite stressful. Well, sometimes you forget about that and sometimes I will just pick up the flute and just kind of go, especially some of the other flutes like the, um, you know, like let's say the native flute is very relaxing or the bansuri, and you just can kind of just go, wow, you know, you just enjoy that sound. I'm sorry, my phone is ringing.

[34:39] Speaker 3: The, you just enjoy that sound and, and the way it feels in your body, you know, and just play long tones and just feel that, and like maybe even play an overtone, play a fundamental tone and then-

[34:52] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[34:52] Speaker 3: ... go through the harmonic series just by overblowing.

[34:56] Speaker 2: Yes.

[34:56] Speaker 3: It, it can be very meditative and again, maybe some of these things are more what people, because of AI and all that, the rest of it, it can do so many of the other tasks that musicians have done in the past that these sort of things will, will stay with you because as a human being, you can relate to, again, the way it's sounding in your body, the way it's resonating, and the way it makes you feel. It, it, it definitely alleviates all that stress that you have-

[35:24] Speaker 2: Wow.

[35:24] Speaker 3: ... in your daily life. Again, taking buses, taking Ubers, doing meetings, whatever. Yeah.

[35:31] Speaker 2: 'Cause we always have to breathe. But how, could you translate into like someone's everyday life if they're stressful, how, how they might be able to feel their breath?

[35:43] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[35:43] Speaker 2: Through?

[35:44] Speaker 3: Um, yeah, I think... Sorry, I'm just gonna power this down. Um, well, I think, I think the breathing exercises really can be a great way to, to, um, to alleviate any stress. And again, like I said, one of the most basic ones, I mean, there's all these sort of stretching things that you do, like you breathe in and then you do a bunch of stretching, but just the basic thing. Here, here's one thing I wanna say. A lot of people smoke and vape because what the relaxing part about it really is, it's not the nicotine, it's the fact that you have to draw a deep breath. So when you're smoking, you're filling your lungs and...Wow. You feel that relaxation. And there was a... Actually, it was Brenda Vicario, the, the actress from way, way back, who ma- made this whole analysis of smoking, and that it gave the impression of having a full breath. Well, it is the impression, but you just, of course, have...

[36:47] Speaker 3: You're breathing in (laughs) all the smoke at the same time

[36:49] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[36:49] Speaker 3: But when you think about it, isn't that why people go and vape and go and smoke, right?

[36:55] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[36:55] Speaker 3: It's that, to feel that (breathes deeply) , it gives them like... It's kinda silly, if you're... Like, we're having a conversation in a café in New York, and suddenly I go (breathes deeply) . You know, like-

[37:07] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[37:08] Speaker 3: People, people think I'm nuts, but if I'm smoking-

[37:10] Speaker 2: But you, you blow into a flute, you'd have a flute in your pocket.

[37:13] Speaker 3: (laughs) Yeah. Well, yeah, that might be even worse. But, but, but when you're smoking-

[37:19] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[37:19] Speaker 3: ... and I know, of course, smoking is forbidden in so many places now. But nevertheless, if you're smoking, or if you're at a friend's place and even smoking whatever, vaping or smoking marijuana, it's perfectly acceptable to take that long, drawn breath, right? That (breathes deeply) , and blow it out slowly. Well, that, doing that is very relaxing. You know, if you just do that now, you'll feel it, right?

[37:45] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[37:45] Speaker 3: You'll feel, like, everything relaxing. Sometimes I even, like, take, like, a heart monitor. Like, I, you know, I have one of those at home.

[37:53] Speaker 2: Oh.

[37:54] Speaker 3: And, and, you know, I'll put it on, and just do an experiment. And you can lower your blood pressure by quite a bit.

[38:03] Speaker 2: (sighs)

[38:03] Speaker 3: Like, if you're really stressed out and you put the thing on, you go, "My, my God, my blood pressure's really high." But if I just start going (breathes deeply) , and take it again, it just goes way down. You know? It's an actual physical thing. But I don't know, how do you feel? I mean, I'm, of course I'm thinking out loud partly here. I did, I did, uh, credit Brenda Vicario with that. But I am partly thinking out loud. But do you believe that part of why people smoke is just to get the breath?

[38:35] Speaker 2: Well, I like that analogy. I, I, myself am not a smoker, but I... And, and, you know, in the United States, you don't see it as much nowadays. But I do know that... I've heard it's really a stress releaser for people. And I really love the way you do it, because it's so natural. It's like-

[38:54] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[38:55] Speaker 2: Breathing and playing the flute seems to just (breathes deeply) be so much a part of who you are. And in the meditation world, there's so many breath exercises, you know?

[39:06] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[39:06] Speaker 2: You count to four, and you hold for four, you release that, you know, in your stomach, and what do you do? And, you know, you hear it so much, e- even though it's amazing each time. But I loved feeling it with you, and even-

[39:20] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[39:21] Speaker 2: ... thinking of playing a flute and making music out of the breath makes it feel more expansive, and, and I really love that. But I, I see your point. That's a good point. Especially, it would be interesting to, to have a whole class for smokers that are trying to quit smoking, (laughs) and replacing it with the flute.

[39:41] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[39:41] Speaker 2: And it makes me wish I had a little flute in my pocket.

[39:44] Speaker 3: Or just, just breathing without... Yeah. Or just breathing without the cigarette or the, the, the pipe, um, because I think that is the... I think in some ways people are confusing the reason why they feel better. It's just-

[39:57] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[39:57] Speaker 3: ... again, they're drawing in this big breath, they're blowing out slowly, you know? And just the fact of doing that is going to be relaxing, undoubtedly. Like I said, even like I said, you could put one of those little things, you'll just see, it'll go down dramatically-

[40:12] Speaker 2: I wanna do that.

[40:12] Speaker 3: ... like, by 10, 15%. Like, almost within the first breath, the first-

[40:17] Speaker 2: That is fantastic.

[40:17] Speaker 3: ... properly drawn breath.

[40:19] Speaker 2: Wow.

[40:20] Speaker 3: And, and for people who are not flute players, I would sort of suggest them playing, uh, something like the native flute, and get a lower one too, because the-

[40:28] Speaker 2: What is the... Uh, so, so I happen to not be gifted with my embouchure, and trying to play the flute-

[40:34] Speaker 3: Well, that's why, that's why, because with, with a native flute, you don't need an embouchure. It's a fipple flute, like a recorder. So-

[40:39] Speaker 2: Is that the biggest change between a classical and non-classical flute?

[40:44] Speaker 3: N- well, no. I mean, there's a lot of classical repertoire written for, let's say, the recorder, right? And there's some incredible players who play the, the recorder, and they play all that Baroque, uh, music. But, um, th- the difference is, if you have to play a transverse flute, where you actually, um, have to create an embouchure and stuff-

[41:04] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[41:04] Speaker 3: I mean, that takes years. Uh, it doesn't take years to get your first sound, but it, it takes years to, to make a beautiful tone. But with something like the native flute, you'll sound good right from the get-go, because the, the, uh, sound is created with the fipple, and it's al- the air is already channeled for you. So, um, you know, you'll, you'll immediately get that meditative feeling that you're talking about.

[41:33] Speaker 2: Where could you suggest someone find that kind of flute?

[41:37] Speaker 3: Oh, they're, they're, they're quite available, actually. Um, in New York, there's that... Well, I don't know if it's still around, that Music Inn, um, place in the Village.

[41:49] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[41:49] Speaker 3: But let's... I mean, there's quite a few makers. I think if you just type in "native flute" in, online, you're gonna see quite a few places. In fact, I'm playing-

[41:56] Speaker 2: So you could get it online?

[41:58] Speaker 3: Pardon me?

[41:59] Speaker 2: You could find it on... I mean, I know it's nicer to be in person, and can you try them out, and...

[42:04] Speaker 3: You know, I'm playing at this flute convention this year in Wisconsin, and there'll be quite a few, uh, native flute makers there.

[42:11] Speaker 2: Oh.

[42:12] Speaker 3: Um, uh, one of my favorite is, uh, Geoffrey Ellis, who's a friend of mine, lives in Northern California. However, he doesn't really make native flutes anymore, and that's just because he's an artist. He, he doesn't go with the (laughs) th- the, the... He's not somebody who's sort of driven by the cr- like, you know, this sells more, or this whatever.

[42:30] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[42:30] Speaker 3: Right? So, he used to make them. Now, he's sort of focusing more on things like bansuri and, uh, the xiao, and some other ethnic, uh, other world flutes. But, um, like I said, if you, if you're just starting, you don't wanna spend 10 years to develop your embouchure-... uh, a native flute, or even a recorder. But again, I would suggest a lower, a lower temperature of...

[42:55] Speaker 2: Could there be someone else, somewhere else online someone could look?

[43:00] Speaker 3: Um, yeah. I mean, for me, I find, like, they're, like, everywhere. But I'd have to think about it. But I'm sure, like I said, if you type in native flute.

[43:10] Speaker 2: Okay.

[43:11] Speaker 3: Um, there's some, like, Butch Hall flutes are very, very consistent, even if you get a used one. Yeah, there's, there's lots. Maybe, maybe what I'll do is, after the show, we'll, I'll do something, you can put it into the, uh-

[43:28] Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.

[43:29] Speaker 3: You can put it into the, um-

[43:31] Speaker 2: The show?

[43:31] Speaker 3: ... description, yeah.

[43:32] Speaker 2: Description. Oh, that's exciting. Wow.

[43:35] Speaker 3: I mean, hey, I'm not trying to discourage people from learning the classical flute, or this. Like, I'm just saying there's an investment in time, you know, that, that goes along with that. I mean, it's a difference, almost like, like playing a piano. You can hit a note and-

[43:49] Speaker 2: Definitely.

[43:50] Speaker 3: ... like hit-

[43:50] Speaker 2: User friendly.

[43:51] Speaker 3: ... and you can already make something. But with the violin, I mean, how long does it take to make a new piece of violin?

[43:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. I know, and then you, you get out of shape, and not user-friendly.

[43:59] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

[43:59] Speaker 2: But since... I love that you're sharing that, 'cause creativity is such a big part of this show, and, and to have one more outlet, I think everything enriches our life. But just say, well, just a tool to just relax and get the breath moving-

[44:16] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[44:16] Speaker 2: ... as, in, in real time. And so, in your life, so the creativity, it's about you see this vision, like you think of an album or one, what, what comes first and then what comes next. But is there anything you could think of as something to share that would help people maybe expand their creativity in how they think of it in terms of, like, how many dreams you've lived and... It must be even beyond your dreams that you, you've done so many exciting things that you share, and how it helps people and brings people together, and... Does anything come to your mind?

[44:56] Speaker 3: Um, wow. That, that's an interesting question to unpack. I mean, well, of course, traveling is very inspiring.

[45:05] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[45:06] Speaker 3: Um, it, it, it all always puts you off your comfort level, doesn't it? Right?

[45:12] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[45:12] Speaker 3: You know, even just buying the wrong train ticket and then having to sort of improvise something.

[45:18] Speaker 2: (laughs) Yeah.

[45:19] Speaker 3: And, and, and that. And I think that's very, very healthy for people, because we tend to get into a routine and we get sort of stuck in that. So, I think it... And there's nothing wrong with routine, I mean, overall. But if you're just day after day, year after year never, um, traveling. Like, for instance, I have some friends, uh, who, who are actually quite well-known New Age musicians, and, uh, they never traveled, you know. They had money.

[45:48] Speaker 2: Wow.

[45:48] Speaker 3: But they... And they passed away already, and, um, I don't wanna say their names. But I just felt, "What a shame." And, and I would always encourage them, like, "Why don't..." you know. But they were always so resistant to it because they, it was the unknown, you know. And they would sort of say things like, "Who would I go with?" And all this. It's like, who cares? I mean, go by yourself. Go by yourself, right? Even take, like, a very touristy bus tour, for crying out loud.

[46:15] Speaker 2: Yeah. (laughs)

[46:17] Speaker 3: You know, because anything. Like, I mean, if you've never been to Europe and to see, like, you know, Eiffel Tower and, and, uh, the Louvre and, and to go to Spain and see all those incredible buildings and just the whole way of life. I mean, it, I've never really seen anybody who's gone on a trip and not been enriched, unless they really are just so resistant to it and they cloister themselves in their hotel, if you know what I'm saying, you know.

[46:46] Speaker 3: Uh, I mean, I do know a guy who comes to mind who's very, very wealthy, and he did a trip recently, and it, it meant nothing to him because he just spent all his time in these, like, five-star hotels and didn't go out and-

[46:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[46:59] Speaker 3: ... you know, connect with anything. You know, so-

[47:02] Speaker 2: Yeah. That's true.

[47:03] Speaker 3: So if that's, that's the case, then yeah, I guess you may as well just stay in.

[47:06] Speaker 2: That brings two things to mind. I always loved to go to Third World countries and where it's so, life is just so different. And it brings up the idea of an improv, because some people like things controlled and everything works out and there's these plans. But it's so good, it, like a good cook can make something out of whatever they have and know how to, what spices, whatever, that maybe you don't have the recipe, and that's part of being creative. Like, what can you create, you know, from that? And I was also thinking, kind of for myself as well, I love to travel every chance I can. But I'm also thinking that in New York City, I haven't been to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in so long. Being a tourist in your own city or the closest big city, where could you go? What could you do? All the shows and things, just to make your life an adventure and to not have it be boring or, like, stuck or what are you gonna do?

[48:06] Speaker 3: Hmm.

[48:06] Speaker 2: Which can kinda happen.

[48:08] Speaker 3: You know, it does take effort. It does take effort.

[48:11] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[48:11] Speaker 3: People think that traveling is just, oh, you're having fun and it's- It's not just fun. I mean, there's a lot of organization, even to go to the Met. Like, for you, I guess you don't live in Manhattan itself.

[48:21] Speaker 2: Right. Mm-hmm.

[48:22] Speaker 3: So, just even to take a train in, and, you know, all the people and this and that and-

[48:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, and the time.

[48:28] Speaker 3: ... spending money.

[48:29] Speaker 2: Taking the time to.

[48:30] Speaker 3: It, it... Yes. And, and actually blocking out the time to actually be able to do it.

[48:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[48:36] Speaker 3: Um, and a lot of times, we just go, "Oh, we'll just do it next week." And then, of course, next week passes and-

[48:40] Speaker 2: So, I'm gonna make a commitment that I'll, I'll come on the show and ex- and share all that experience at the Metropolitan Museum. (laughs)

[48:48] Speaker 3: Cool.

[48:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be fun. So-I absolutely loved hearing your opening flute line in Kimoko's Pearl.

[48:57] Speaker 3: Mm.

[48:57] Speaker 2: It was so-

[48:58] Speaker 3: Kimoko's Pearl.

[48:58] Speaker 2: ... mesmerizing and transportive. I love the word transportive with your music-

[49:03] Speaker 3: Mm.

[49:03] Speaker 2: ... 'cause that's how your life has been and that really flows through because you f- feel the other worlds and everything in it and it was just exciting and the level of the other players, it's like, "Wow." It was-

[49:15] Speaker 3: Mm.

[49:16] Speaker 2: ... a beautiful experience. So what could you share to give us a glimpse into this musical journey that captivates and all that it does in creating this world for people? What could you share about that video?

[49:32] Speaker 3: Oh, about that video specifically?

[49:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, and, and the music, the experience of the music also.

[49:36] Speaker 3: Well, the, the, the music is actually inspired by the, uh, Japanese internment. I don't know how much you know about that, but during the second World War, in Canada and in the United States, Japanese-Americans and Japanese-Canadians who were actually born in Canada and the United States respectively, were, their property was confiscated, they were put into these prison camps-

[50:00] Speaker 2: Mm.

[50:00] Speaker 3: ... and, for the whole duration of the war. And the reason was that they thought, "Well these people could be potential traitors and they could help the Japanese to, to fight, you know, the-"

[50:13] Speaker 2: Mm.

[50:13] Speaker 3: Like, to do whatever, you know, even though there was absolutely no basis for it, and they were putting, you know, old grandpas who were, like, 75 or 85 years old and little kids into the same camp which-

[50:28] Speaker 2: Wow.

[50:28] Speaker 3: ... I mean, even by any stretch of the imagination makes no sense. I mean, if you were to, let's say, just take the mi- military age men or something, but anyway, they just took everyone wholesale. And, and in Canada, they confiscated all the houses and everything, they never gave them back, and so after the war was over, they had nothing and they weren't even allowed to go back to the West Coast, they had to settle in the East Coast like, cities like Toronto, London, Ontario-

[50:57] Speaker 2: Oh.

[50:57] Speaker 3: ... uh, Montreal, et cetera. So, because that's part of my legacy, my mother actually experienced that, um-

[51:04] Speaker 2: Wow.

[51:05] Speaker 3: ... that, that whole project has a lot of resonance for me.

[51:09] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[51:09] Speaker 3: And that opening piece is I'm playing the shinoboe, which is a Japanese flute, and, um, the composer wrote it in a certain way. He actually specifically wanted the shinoboe, which is really quite exciting because most of the time when people write for something Japanese, they want a shakuhachi, but he specifically wanted the shinoboe. And so, um-

[51:32] Speaker 2: Hm.

[51:32] Speaker 3: ... and again, I was able to show him, like, we can, you know, it's good to put in, do it like this and I can bend on this note and add little flourishes and things to, to what he had written. And then the other musicians, I mean, really top-notch classical people like Mariko Araku who plays at the Met in New York City.

[51:52] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[51:52] Speaker 3: And, uh, uh, Rachel Mercer who is the principal cellist of the National Arts Center Orchestra which is the orchestra in, in Ottawa, it's, uh, sort of the, it's, it's our capital city, and, um, and then Conrad who's an amazing violinist. So, it was just really exciting to do it-

[52:10] Speaker 2: Mm.

[52:10] Speaker 3: ... but it's, it's quite out of my wheelhouse now because I, like, I was t- told them right from the get-go, I'm not really a classical musician anymore because I've done so many other things and it's not something that I focused on-

[52:24] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[52:25] Speaker 3: ... anymore. Like, I mean, and you know that as a classical violinist, I mean, to be really h- I don't even... Y- you gotta continually practice that, that repertoire.

[52:35] Speaker 2: Well, to have, like, the big concertos in your fingers.

[52:38] Speaker 3: Yeah. Exactly. You have to do it-

[52:38] Speaker 2: You're not standing up in front of orchestras doing it every other week and things like that.

[52:43] Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly.

[52:43] Speaker 2: That wouldn't be your forte.

[52:45] Speaker 3: Exactly. But they were just, "No, man. You gotta" (laughs) "You gotta do it." And they just said, you know, and I'd say, "I'm not really a classical," they said, "I think you are. I mean, I've heard you this and that."

[52:55] Speaker 2: (laughs) Yeah.

[52:56] Speaker 3: "And you went to U of T and, you know, you gotta be okay." And so, and of course, you know, when I was a student, of course I was pra- practicing all that major repertoire, but, you know, again, my career kind of developed in a different way-

[53:09] Speaker 2: Yes.

[53:09] Speaker 3: ... and became more of a session player and my own albums and, and for me, like, I do like to write music that can be appreciated by people. You know? As opposed to, like, avant-garde, classical or jazz, which it has a very small, very loyal, but very sort of small-

[53:28] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[53:29] Speaker 3: ... uh, public, or-

[53:30] Speaker 2: Reach, yeah.

[53:31] Speaker 3: You know, I, I, I wanna write music that people can enjoy, and so, again, that takes you down a certain path, doesn't it? You know, you're no longer doing-

[53:40] Speaker 2: Yes.

[53:41] Speaker 3: ... that serious classical music.

[53:41] Speaker 2: I mean, the roads diverge sometimes and they're a little... They can come together-

[53:45] Speaker 3: Yes.

[53:45] Speaker 2: ... but there's choices, yes. And also-

[53:48] Speaker 3: So I mean-

[53:48] Speaker 2: ... life shows us our choice.

[53:50] Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[53:51] Speaker 2: Because that's what we're meant to do.

[53:54] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, you hear it from listening to the thing, the, the music is challenging. I mean, it's like a-

[54:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[54:00] Speaker 3: ... it's like a flute concerto. I mean, there's all these, I mean, every bar is basically a different time signature and, you know, I had to, I had to really practice it. And again, I, I am not... I mean, like I said, I, I do all these other things now, right? So-

[54:16] Speaker 2: It sounds beautiful.

[54:18] Speaker 3: And a lot... Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you so much.

[54:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, great videos so-

[54:20] Speaker 3: And again, to, uh, for it to actually be nominated. Yeah, it's a really-

[54:23] Speaker 2: Beautiful.

[54:24] Speaker 3: It's really something.

[54:25] Speaker 2: So before we close, and thank you so much, this has been really-

[54:29] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[54:29] Speaker 2: ... just, I don't, uh, know all the words. Um, sometimes I, the words come through music more than my-

[54:35] Speaker 3: Mm.

[54:35] Speaker 2: ... my mouth, but it's been very-

[54:38] Speaker 3: Mm.

[54:38] Speaker 2: ... inspiring and fun and interesting and so grateful. But I wanna ask you a few things-

[54:46] Speaker 3: Mm.

[54:46] Speaker 2: ... quickly, like a quick things. So, can you think of a place that changed you the most?

[54:54] Speaker 3: Japan.

[54:54] Speaker 2: Just one word, one thought.

[54:55] Speaker 3: Japan.

[54:56] Speaker 2: Okay.

[54:57] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[54:57] Speaker 2: And one instrument that feels most like home.

[55:04] Speaker 3: I would say the bass flute.

[55:06] Speaker 2: Mm, beautiful.

[55:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's so low and rich. And currently my favorite flute is the bansuri, even though I'm not, uh, a bansuri player, I don't know the, the theory, and I don't know all the talas and the ragas and all that thing. But just in terms of blowing it, it, and, and what you can do with it, it's my favorite right now.

[55:27] Speaker 2: Mm, that's beautiful.

[55:29] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[55:29] Speaker 2: And one pre-show must-have. A ritual, a food, a phrase, or silence. Is there anything you do before performing or recording that brings you centered?

[55:42] Speaker 3: Great question. I would say, you know, I heard, I saw a masterclass recent, well, recently, not recently, it's probably already (laughs) seven years ago. But where, and it was a saxophone, saxoph- quite a well-known saxophonist. And he, he was sort of saying to the, the student, like, before you play, like, kinda get your mind ready, you know. Like, so m- much of the time, we just grab the thing and we just start playing and, you know, there's not that sort of focus, and I, I really took that to heart. I go, "That is so true." You know, we're rushing around all the time, and even when we do record, we just switch our computers on and set it up frantically. And, you know, we have to do it by this time. And, and just to kind of center yourself and get ready to play.

[56:30] Speaker 3: Like-

[56:31] Speaker 2: Yes.

[56:31] Speaker 3: ... just get ready to play the violin, like just center your mind. It doesn't need to be long.

[56:36] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[56:37] Speaker 3: Even just 30 seconds.

[56:38] Speaker 2: An intention.

[56:39] Speaker 3: An intention, yeah.

[56:41] Speaker 2: That, anything that you do.

[56:42] Speaker 3: So I do, I do that kind of thing.

[56:43] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[56:43] Speaker 3: Yeah, I do that kind of thing. I try to center myself, try to set the flute up right, try to get everything, and ...

[56:50] Speaker 2: Uh, it reminds me now this time of year watching the Olympics, just an athlete's, the look in their eye, and just-

[56:57] Speaker 3: Hm.

[56:57] Speaker 2: ... that energy before they start. You, you know they have the vision of, like, let's say they're doing a jump or whatever, they have the vision of completing it before that moment they, they start. I think it's the same with playing. You, you, you know where you're going, as in life.

[57:15] Speaker 3: Sure, can you ... Yeah, and you know what's funny about that is, I find now because we have Pro Tools, we have Logic, well, we've had it for a long time, but you can record something and if you make a mistake, you can just do it again and do it again.

[57:28] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[57:29] Speaker 3: And what's so weird is back in the old days when we were recording analog tape in the studio, everybody playing live, if anybody made a mistake, we'd have to do the whole take over again, especially if it was an orchestral session. And flute is so, I mean, so audible, like if you make a mistake, like, on the, if you're second violin, you probably-

[57:49] Speaker 2: Or the piccolo, yeah.

[57:50] Speaker 3: But, oh, but piccolo. But even the concert flute, it's so loud and so audible, like if you screw up, you definitely, the whole orchestra has to play it again. So the funny thing is you don't make mistakes.

[58:03] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[58:03] Speaker 3: You just are so focused, you know what's at stake, and you just don't wanna make any kind of mistake, and you just can do it. But nowadays because you can make mistakes, we do make mistakes.

[58:15] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[58:15] Speaker 3: I, you know, it's, it's a really funny thing how the human mind and the human being is, it's just-

[58:21] Speaker 2: But then in a performance, you don't wanna, you don't have that chance. So it has to be, yeah, I guess, a balance, um, 'cause sometimes-

[58:30] Speaker 3: Well, that's true. In performance it is, in, in performance it is different. But I'm just saying in terms of recording, how-

[58:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, 'cause everyone's used to everything being so perfect.

[58:38] Speaker 3: And, and you just are, like I said, like, when I think about all those television sessions and film sessions that we did, like-

[58:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, you did, you were on 70, 7 ... What, what is the number of sh- shows you've been on or you, you've done?

[58:52] Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, hun- I mean, I did none hundreds.

[58:54] Speaker 2: Count- 700? I mean, countless, yeah.

[58:56] Speaker 3: (laughs) I, I wouldn't, maybe not 700.

[58:58] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[58:58] Speaker 3: But most of the things you do, you're not really credited for, so it's kind of hard to keep track.

[59:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[59:02] Speaker 3: But I think my IMDb I have like 120 or something like that, like in that range.

[59:08] Speaker 2: Yes, yes.

[59:08] Speaker 3: But there, again-

[59:09] Speaker 2: Yes.

[59:09] Speaker 3: ... you're only invo- you're only credited for one, like if, let's say you play on a TV series, you're only credited once. But you might have played on, I don't know, 30, 40 episodes of that thing.

[59:20] Speaker 2: Ah, yeah.

[59:20] Speaker 3: But I, just, like, I'm on- like I said, it's just interesting how, and even improvising, like, you know, like, there'll be a, a jingle or something, and Ron, you play, just improvise this, b- play a little jazz solo there, and you play it, and, and maybe you do it twice, and that's about it. You know, like, that's all they needed. That's all that we did. But now there's just this whole idea of, you know, you can play things forever. And you just, you know, so what do you do today?

[59:48] Speaker 2: But it doesn't always get ... I do think as a recording artist, you do find that sweet spot, because you, you do know that it doesn't always get better.

[59:57] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.

[59:58] Speaker 2: So ...

[59:58] Speaker 3: And, and I don't know if you ever saw, there was that Manchurian Candidate where Frank Sinatra did this take and it was actually out of focus, and then they tried to redo it the next day and they just couldn't get it. So they ended up using the out-of-focus one.

[01:00:10] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:00:11] Speaker 3: And I've had the same thing where I've done a track, I've done, done, uh, a solo, and there's some little mistake, some little kind of cack or something that, ugh, you know, just ... So I want to go in and, and fix that. And of course I can fix that one. So often I just go with the original one.

[01:00:34] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:35] Speaker 3: I mean, to a third party or maybe even yourself, you would go, "Well, Ron, they almost sound identical and that one doesn't have the mistake," but somehow it's just not quite as immediate. Um, so there is something to that, like, you know, that just, to do it in the here and now-

[01:00:54] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:00:54] Speaker 3: ... just, and have that magic, you know, to be able-

[01:00:57] Speaker 2: And to not have to be perfect. It's such a freeing thing.Oh.

[01:01:03] Speaker 3: Because of the eye and all these things, everything is so perfect now, like, you know, it's ... And it, it's so funny now when you, when you listen to older rock and roll particularly, we can't listen to older classical like (laughs) -

[01:01:17] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:01:17] Speaker 3: ... well, I suppose we can. We can listen to recordings from the '50s, but we can't listen to recordings from the 1700s. It would be amazing if we could.

[01:01:24] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:01:25] Speaker 3: Because I would imagine it was a lot looser than-

[01:01:29] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:01:29] Speaker 3: ... we, we ... But because even with recording technology back in the 1950s, there was a lot they could do to perfect things, right? And I don't know, it just something ... Like, I was in a ramen, uh, noodle shop just a couple weeks ago in Japan and it was a very small place and there was a couple, like, young German, uh, tourists there, like, they were only in their 20s. And we were eating noodles and you hear like The Beatles, Magical Mystery Tour being played through the speakers and, and they played this whole playlist of Beatles songs and I said to those German guys, "Wow," you know, "It still sounds great." And they go, "Yeah." And the-, these guys are only like in their early 20s. They go, "Yeah, The Beatles are just so great." There's just something, there's some magic about it, isn't it? You know, you could pick it apart, you can say, "Recording was, this is not that great. This is, this, this is out of tune. This is not really in time. This ..." But it just sounds great.

[01:02:30] Speaker 3: (laughs) It-

[01:02:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all that matters. It just sounds great and it feels great.

[01:02:35] Speaker 3: It makes ... And yes, and it makes you feel great.

[01:02:37] Speaker 2: Right.

[01:02:37] Speaker 3: I mean, if you, if you're feeling depressed, listen to a Beatles album especially.

[01:02:41] Speaker 2: Yeah. And take a-

[01:02:41] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[01:02:42] Speaker 2: ... big, deep breath and pretend you're playing the flute or get a flute. So thank you. I, I can't-

[01:02:48] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[01:02:48] Speaker 2: ... thank you enough for all of your inspiration and just really-

[01:02:52] Speaker 3: My pleasure.

[01:02:53] Speaker 2: There's so many things I wanna do and trips I wanna plan, so thank you.

[01:02:58] Speaker 3: There is.

[01:02:58] Speaker 2: So, and, and in parting I wanna say to please remember to breathe, to listen, and reset.

[01:03:04] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:04] Speaker 2: That's the pathway, that's the practice, yeah.

[01:03:06] Speaker 3: And you know quite frankly, listen to music. Listen to music.

[01:03:09] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:03:10] Speaker 3: I mean, we, we tend to forget about that, especially when we're making music all the time, but, you know-

[01:03:14] Speaker 2: Definitely.

[01:03:15] Speaker 3: You know, now that I'm in Taiwan and this, this apartment, we're listening to a lot of music and it, it's just so great. I mean, music has such a power to enrich and, and to, to, to just, you know, it's not only enjoyable but it, like I said, it reaches your soul too.

[01:03:33] Speaker 2: Yes. Well thank you-

[01:03:34] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[01:03:34] Speaker 2: ... for enriching us.

[01:03:36] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:36] Speaker 2: And blessings and love, until next time.

[01:03:39] Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

[01:03:39] Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Bye for now.

[01:03:42] Speaker 3: Take care.

[01:03:43] Speaker 2: Thank you.

[01:03:45] Speaker 1: (instrumental music) Thank you so very much for joining us on today's transformative journey. We're honored to have shared this space with you and we hope you're feeling inspired and aligned with your highest self. For more insights, resources, and to continue your path of healing, be sure to visit karenolson.com, your gateway to deeper sound healing music and wisdom. Remember, Sound Pathways is here every other Wednesday at 9:00 PM Eastern, 6:00 PM Pacific on BBS Radio TV station one. Until next time, stay aligned, stay inspired, and let the magic of sound guide you.