00:00

Speaker 1
(jazzy music plays) Let's remember together some of the greatest TV and movie stars of yesteryear with the woman who knew them. Mary Jane Poppe hosted radio and TV shows for nearly five decades, meeting these stars and getting them to share their real-life stories. You'll meet them up close and personal as Mary Jane searches her extensive archives for the best and brightest real star talk on Pop Star Talk. And here she is, Mary Jane Poppe.

00:34

Speaker 2
Hi, Mary Jane Poppe here, and I wanna welcome you to another edition of Pop Star Talk as I go back in time with interviews that I did over five decades. Well, with me, as always, is my producer, Kenneth Sigourneault, who will join me and share some insights and personal experiences with the wonderful celebrities I had the pleasure of meeting over these many years. Now, this episode is a little different from some of those that I've shared with you. Uh, I did many interviews with politicians over the years, but none more controversial, uh, and tell-it-like-he-sees-it political commentator Lou Dobbs. Now, I included him in my choices for Pop Star Talk because of his opinions. Now, you may agree with him, or not, but he was entertaining with his move from TV to radio to... well, y- you'll hear some of it on Pop Star Talk. And boy, he sure covered a lot of territory in the media, but unfortunately, he passed away this last year. Hey, Ken, how you doing?

01:39

Speaker 3
I am doing very well, thank you.

01:41

Speaker 2
Interesting, this man, what a varied career he had, incredible.

01:47

Speaker 3
Yes, he, uh, like most journalists, traveled around from market to market and then found his niche. He really found his niche as being a political commentator, and I, I would, I would imagine that, uh, he may have been a hero of Rush Limbaugh.

02:04

Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

02:05

Speaker 3
They had some conservative views that were very, very similar.

02:08

Speaker 2
And it's interesting because, (laughs) uh, did you know that after college, he actually worked for federal anti-poverty programs in Boston and Washington, DC, uh, and then he returned to Idaho? He was actually born in Texas, of all places, back in 1945, Childress, Texas. I've never been there, but I'm sure, you know, they're very famous because he came from there. Um, he also went to... well, was going to go to the University of Idaho, but they w- convinced him, I don't know who the "they" were, but they convinced him, uh, to go to Harvard, where he was accepted. And he graduated in 1967 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics, which I thought was interesting. Then, after college, he worked for, as I said, the anti-poverty programs in Boston and Washington, DC. He also worked for, uh, as a fire reporter and police reporter in Yuma, Arizona at KBLU. Then he went to SEA... you, you mentioned all, all over the place, um, then he went to Seattle at KING-TV.

03:18

Speaker 2
And in 1979, this is interesting, he was actually contacted by a recruiter for Ted Turner, who was in the process of forming CNN. And so in 1980, if I'm not mistaken, was the year that he actually joined CNN, um, as an inception into serving as a reporter and network vice president on the air. He was also served as host and managing editor of the network's business program called MONEYLINE, that was the first one he did on CNN. And then, um, it, it actually then developed in 2003, yeah, 2003, and was renamed Lou Dobbs Tonight. And then he resigned, actually, from CNN... talkin' about movin' around, in 1999, but then rejoined the network in 2001. Then he resigned once again in November of 2009. Uh, he was the former talk radio host of Lou Dobbs Radio. Uh, from 2011, he hosted the Lou Dobbs Tonight on the Fox Business Network until the network actually canceled his show in, in February of 2021. So, you were right when you said he... you know, most people in this business move around.

04:42

Speaker 2
We moved around a few (laughs) places, but he really did a lot of jumping. But, you know, people loved him, you know? He, he really did tell it like it was, and, you know, I admire that in a person. You know, he, he took the heat, then went along with it, right, Ken?

04:58

Speaker 3
Oh, yes. He was not, uh, shy in asking the tough questions.

05:03

Speaker 2
Yeah. It's sad that he's not with us. I mean, he was born in 1945, um, so, you know, by any standard today, he's not that old. He would not have been that old. But, you know, had maybe a little bit too much stress (laughs) moving from place to place. But here, I, it, it... I shouldn't even explain. Here's what he sounded like when he was on the air. Meet the one and only Lou Dobbs. I've been an admirer of this man for a long time, simply because he tells it like it is. And whether you like it or not doesn't make a doggone bit of difference, because he is there, he has the bully pulpit, and by golly, you need to listen up. So, you know, as we always say, we pop off. Oh boy, do we today.

05:57

Speaker 3
Good evening, everybody. It is day one of the special counsel, less than four months into the presidency of Donald J. Trump.

06:06

Speaker 4
Despite eight years of scandals and outrages, we-

06:09

Speaker 5
And he does it every night to us, he lets us know what's going on. And he also has a thriller out that explores how an increasingly powerful Russia could pose a real threat to America and maybe even the world. Sound familiar? Does Vladimir Putin fit that bill? Well, then there's a new president, weakened foreign policy, and a strained military that leads to a drive for this Russian leader to regain his Soviet empire. I put that in quotes. Well, now comes the book called Putin's Gambit, and Lou Dobbs, host of Fox Business News, Lou Dobbs Tonight s-... you know, he just tells it like it is in this book. And he's a legendary broadcaster, best-selling author, respected voice on politics, economic, society, business, and maybe even the future. Let's find out. Hi, Lou. How you doing?

07:02

Speaker 4
Doing great, Mary Jane. Great to be with you. Thank you.

07:05

Speaker 5
You betcha. Now, I, I love the title, Putin's Gambit, and I looked up the d- definition of gambit. I wanted to make sure I was gonna be on target talking with you today. And it says it's a device, action, opening remark, um, it's a stratagem, a scheme, a plan, a tactic. So you're sayin' this is Putin's gambit, and this is what you feel is gonna be happening?

07:26

Speaker 4
I think, well, first of all, uh, you know, that, that would take away my advantage in writing a fictional thriller, Mary Jane. I, you wouldn't want me to do that.

07:33

Speaker 5
No, of course not. (laughs)

07:35

Speaker 4
I- it's wh-, it's why we chose, ah, fiction, so that we could put together some, a reasonable conjecture about what the future holds with the most powerful, uh, nation and challenger to the United States in, uh, nuclear weaponry. Uh, what the future holds in that relationship, and what we should expect, uh, and the ways in which we should be considering possibilities, uh, when, when a, a, a man who controls 1700 deployed nuclear weapons, uh, and ICBMs to deliver them. Um, when he speaks, uh, he should not be met with just dismissal, um, because he really does mean to create, uh, a new, the Soviet Empire.

08:22

Speaker 4
And this is a-

08:23

Speaker 5
Well, he's a former KG-... He's a former KGB agent. Of course, you know he wants to go back to the Soviet Empire.

08:27

Speaker 4
A- absolutely. And, you know, people forget the oligarchs, the, the wealthiest, uh, men in all, uh, of Russia, the reason they're there is because of Vladimir Putin. He was the man who found himself in position to decide which of the closed plants and the, uh, factories, and the prod-... uh, a- areas of production would be going to whom.

08:50

Speaker 5
Mm.

08:50

Speaker 4
So every, for every oligarch you think of, there's only one man responsible for them being oligarchs, and that is Vladimir Putin.

08:59

Speaker 5
So, they're all beholden to him. He's got no, they got no choice.

09:02

Speaker 4
Absolutely.

09:02

Speaker 5
Hmm.

09:03

Speaker 4
Absolutely.

09:04

Speaker 5
So y- your characters in your book are... I mean, I know it's a novel. I understand that, but those characters are all too real.

09:12

Speaker 4
Yeah, they're, uh, they're very real, and they're very, uh, um, I, I hope believable.

09:18

Speaker 5
Oh, they are.

09:18

Speaker 4
Uh, but these days, as you know, a- as you know, it's very difficult to write fiction because reality overwhelms-

09:24

Speaker 5
(laughs) Yeah.

09:24

Speaker 4
... fiction daily.

09:25

Speaker 5
That's true.

09:26

Speaker 4
Uh, we, we all are found, you know, scratching our heads at what has transpired and, and what is happening, whether it's on Wall Street or whether it is in foreign markets or capitals. Uh, it, it's just extraordinary, uh, what is un-... uh, unfolding before our very eyes. Uh, we've never lived through the more, I, I think, a more interesting or, or perhaps more dangerous time in a- all of history.

09:51

Speaker 5
You, you, it's so crazy what we have going out there, Lou, and I wanna get your read on this. I mean, we've got North Korea. We've got Iran. We've got Syria. We've got Russia, you know, all these countries, and how do you balance that? I, I, uh, I feel sorry (laughs) for President Trump. I really do. Whether I agree with a lot of what he says or does doesn't matter. He's our president, and he has to face this-

10:13

Speaker 4
Right.

10:13

Speaker 5
... on a daily basis.

10:15

Speaker 4
Yeah. It, it's, it, it's extraordinary the challenges that he does face as the leader of the country ev-... uh, faces whenever he or she at some point walks into the Oval Office. Uh, they are in, in charge of as much our power as they are, uh, the dangers that we face.

10:34

Speaker 5
Mm-hmm.

10:35

Speaker 4
Uh, you mentioned, uh, uh, amongst the, the challenges, China. China right now is, uh, you know, moving throughout the Western hemisphere. There was a time they stayed within their, uh, hegemony, but they have as a matter of political balance, uh, sought to enter the, Central America, to control either end of the Panama Canal, to invest through Africa, uh, into our own hemisphere.

11:01

Speaker 5
Mm.

11:01

Speaker 4
Meanwhile, Russia is the most advanced power challenging the United States, and it is spending more, uh, on its nuclear weaponry, updating its nuclear weaponry and delivery systems at a rate we haven't seen since the Cold War. And, and Vladimir Putin as s-... he demonstrated in Crimea and the Eastern Ukraine, he means to do exactly as he-

11:25

Speaker 5
Hm.

11:25

Speaker 4
... determines, uh, in the interest of the R- Russian state, and nothing-

11:31

Speaker 5
Hm.

11:32

Speaker 4
... to this point has stopped him or no one.

11:34

Speaker 5
Hm.

11:34

Speaker 4
And unfortunately, Barack Obama as president did n-... absolutely nothing to even s-... slow him down.

11:41

Speaker 5
Yeah. Lou, I, I gotta ask you this, though. Because when we-

11:45

Speaker 4
Sure.

11:45

Speaker 5
... talk about all these countries, and a-... for the longest time, for years, 'cause I've been doing talk shows now for what? Over 40 years. It's scary to even say that. Uh, but I remember 20 years ago saying, "You know, it's not gonna be Russia, it's not gonna be China, and it's not gonna be the United States who's gonna start World War III. It's gonna be some lame, little third-world country who doesn't give a damn how many people of their own that they kill, or anybody else that they kill, and they got nothing to lose." Your read.

12:14

Speaker 4
I think that there's some ... You know, I think that unfortunately, that's all too possible, uh, if not likely. Uh, but the, eventually the principal powers, and you mentioned China, the United States and Russia, and someday perhaps Iran, are going to, uh, be moving. And, uh, when they do, as in the case of Russia trying to, uh, reestablish its empire, a mistake will be made. And it's, it's all but certain that that will occur, because these ambitions are, are dangerous ambitions, and lives always hang in the balance. History teaches us that, that peace, while we'd like to think of it as the normal state, war is the more likely result.

13:04

Speaker 5
Absolutely. But, you know, the other thing too is obviously President Trump ran on his, uh, slogan saying, "I'll make America great again," which-

13:13

Speaker 4
Right.

13:13

Speaker 5
... who would, who want, who would argue with that? Of course, we wanna make America great again. But does does that mean isolationism? Uh, or...

13:20

Speaker 4
No.

13:20

Speaker 5
'Cause it's a world power, a world economy. We can't really get separate from that.

13:26

Speaker 4
Uh, nor has, uh, Donald Trump ever intimated that that would even be part of his thinking.

13:33

Speaker 5
Mm-hmm.

13:33

Speaker 4
But he's talking about engaging in trade. He calls it fair trade, and I think in that he's actually absolutely correct. Uh, we have to have balanced and mutual and reciprocal trade. We have to respect one another as nation states and understand that, uh, um, each of us, uh, has a responsibility, each nation a responsibility to make certain that we are, uh, never weak, uh, because lacking respect that's when people make mistakes. And, uh, it is, as I say, it's necessary to invest in our, our military to be prepared for the worst so that it doesn't occur.

14:16

Speaker 5
Absolutely.

14:18

Speaker 2
Hang in there with us 'cause we got more to come.

14:22

Speaker 6
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16:23

Speaker 8
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17:22

Speaker 8
(tone)

17:22

Speaker 6
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18:22

Speaker 2
It's Pop Talk, and you know we do talk. How do you feel about Mueller taking over the investigation on the election and what Russia may or may have not done?

18:35

Speaker 4
Well, first of all, ru- Russia and the u- and the United States did not collude in any way. There's been no evidence of it through 12 months of investigation. It's a farce that was created by the very people who were victims of the Russian intervention, that is, the Democratic Party a- a- and, uh, uh, President Obama and Hillary Clinton's campaign. Think about this, Mueller is a special counsel-

19:00

Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.

19:00

Speaker 4
... to determine Russian collusion with the Trump administration. M- m- not five congressional committees have been able to find a single instance of collusion, cooperation, whatever you would want to call it, uh, with the Russians, uh, by the, on the part of the Trump administration. I- i- it's farcical. But what isn't been allowed to, uh, uh, catch the, the spotlight is the reality that the Democratic National Committee was hacked by Russian hackers. The Department of Homeland Security, the FBI went to the DNC and asked them to please let them see their servers because there is an issue of national security.

19:41

Speaker 2
Right.

19:42

Speaker 4
They were denied.

19:43

Speaker 2
Yeah.

19:43

Speaker 4
They were denied. And the question is why did the Obama Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, under James Comey by the way, eh, uh, allow themselves be told to get out of the way, go away, uh, we don't want you here.

19:56

Speaker 2
Hmm.

19:56

Speaker 4
Uh, it, it's really maddening to see what in trans- has transpired under the last year of the Obama administration and what, frankly, uh, was, uh, permitted to occur.

20:08

Speaker 2
Mueller has been touted as being a very fair, uh, brilliant man by both sides, both Republicans-

20:15

Speaker 4
Right.

20:15

Speaker 2
... and Democrats. D- uh, h- why do you think he's keeping up the special investigation then?

20:21

Speaker 4
Oh, why do I think he's keeping it up?

20:23

Speaker 2
Yeah.

20:23

Speaker 4
Because that is-

20:24

Speaker 2
If there's nothing there.

20:25

Speaker 4
... somebody... Uh, y- you know, I love the idea, why, why would he be there if he, if, if there were no crime committed?

20:32

Speaker 2
Right.

20:33

Speaker 4
You know, it usually works the other way, uh, and that is first a crime is committed, and then investigators are brought in, uh, to prove their case. Uh, this is the instance in which we have a special counsel in search of a crime. It is silly beyond belief. Uh, it's also dangerous, and, and Mueller himself is in conflict. Uh, he's violated already the special counsel statute that requires no potential, even potential or appearance of conflict of interest. His conflict of interest is with both the Obama administration and with James Comey, the director of the, uh, FBI, who by the way, everybody said was such an upstanding fellow.

21:15

Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.

21:15

Speaker 4
And what a great person to lead the FBI, and now we found out he was the leading, uh, leaker from the Department of, uh, uh, Justice, uh, and the FBI himself.

21:27

Speaker 2
Right.

21:27

Speaker 4
Think about it. I- it's just, uh, amazing, and through his statements we find out Loretta Lynch violated her oath of office, and now there is sure to be a, uh, an investigation, if not special counsel, uh, uh, at least, uh, action by the J- Senate Judiciary Committee and House and Senate Intelligence Committees to find out, uh, what her level of culpability was, as she met on the tarmac, uh, with, uh, with Bill Clinton. And by the way, protected by the FBI that was shooing... FBI agents who were shooing people away so they couldn't see them. A remarkable, remarkable moment, uh, in recent, uh, uh, post-presidential history.

22:17

Speaker 2
Ken, it's so interesting. I know you, you and I kind of will agree on this, that it was amazing, all the stuff that he was talking about, we're still talking about it today. It has not changed. Unreal. I mean, uh, Lou Dobbs was known for anti-illegal immigration views, as well as for opposition to NAFTA and other trade deals. Um, he was, of course, uh, a sto-... Now, this interview that I did was in 2016, and it was about four months into President Trump's first term. Um, he was a supporter, of course, of Donald Trump. He infused his show with pro-Trump, um, coverage. And he was one of three Fox Corporation programs that hosted, uh, named in a $2.7 billion defamation lawsuit. (laughs) I mean, he had so many things going. He was also, um, uh, gave airtime to the birther theory that Barack Obama, former president, was not born in the United States. So I mean, (laughs) he just was all over the place.

23:28

Speaker 4
Yeah.

23:28

Speaker 2
He was in opposition to outsourcing. He warned of Islamic terrorism. And this, I don't know if it was a joke or not, because I, I didn't hear the original, uh, information, you know, to be able to hear exactly what he said, but in 2018 he actually suggested that the US start war with China. I, I don't know, did you ever hear of that?

23:51

Speaker 4
No, I've never heard of that.

23:53

Speaker 2
Isn't that... But you know, it might've been part, you know, maybe in joking or, you know, saying the extremes that we're going through, but this man, I mean, he d- he never held back. You gotta give him that, right?

24:06

Speaker 4
Oh, and, and he was a reporter, investigator, entrepreneur, uh, you know, it's, it's no wonder he died of a heart attack. (laughs)

24:15

Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. (laughs) Exactly. Like I said, he, he spoke out, there were lawsuits. I mean, he had to face a lot, and he was bouncing all over the place. And a lot of people say, "Oh, well, it was all CNN." No, it wasn't, 'cause he was also on Fox News. He was on both.

24:30

Speaker 3
Right.

24:30

Speaker 2
But he spoke out his own mind and what he felt.

24:33

Speaker 3
We ... You know, it's, it's, it, it... We're comparing today with back when, you know, the Trump and that whole investigation and all that, we're so much better off today because they're not investigating the election anymore. The questions of the election and who knew won in the election, because Trump won and you couldn't argue it. And, uh, and so I think we're better off today than we were back then.

24:58

Speaker 2
I don't know, we still are talking about 2020 (laughs) and so-

25:02

Speaker 3
Well, you know-

25:02

Speaker 2
... that hasn't gone away (laughs) , you know?

25:04

Speaker 3
Well, I mean, but we're talking about tariffs and we're talking about-

25:09

Speaker 2
Uh-huh.

25:09

Speaker 3
... you know, much, much greater things. And, you know, and, and the Putin thing was ... just amazed me with Dobbs in that, uh, he had a, he had a good sense of, of p- who Putin was and, uh, and he ... it just continues to prove out. And, um, I thought we were entertainment. (laughs)

25:29

Speaker 2
Y- Well, it is entertainment.

25:30

Speaker 3
But, uh, well, you know, I, I love history and, and it ... I keep saying, "You can't write this." You know? (laughs)

25:36

Speaker 2
No. No. Absolutely. So, and, and one of the issues that I felt that we needed to talk about is so much in the words of collusion and those trying to protect their own behinds, if you know what I mean.

25:52

Speaker 9
(music)

25:53

Speaker 4
That's exactly right. And, by the way, I mean, uh, General Flynn knew better than to get involved in all that he did. Uh, h- e- it's ... So that is, uh, entirely on him. But he is willing to talk, he says, but he wants immunity.

26:08

Speaker 2
Yeah.

26:09

Speaker 4
And that's not uncommon in, uh, you know, uh, these kinds of corruption cases. But, uh, but what unfolds there, you know, we, we don't know. But we do know one thing, he was unmasked as a, uh, an American citizen in violation of our laws-

26:26

Speaker 2
Yep.

26:26

Speaker 4
... by the FBI because there was a feud, uh, according to the most rep- uh, most recent reports as of yesterday, between Andrew McCabe, the number two man at the, uh, Department of Justice, and General Flynn. And it was an act, uh, it is claimed, uh, by Andrew McCabe against General Flynn that his name surfaced, he was unmasked, and, uh, thrown to the wolves.

26:53

Speaker 2
Hmm. Hang in there with us 'cause we got more to come.

26:57

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28:57

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30:57

Speaker 10
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31:56

Speaker 4
(Instrumental music plays) And here she is, Mary Jane Fox.

32:01

Speaker 5
Why do you think, a- and we've seen this multiple times now, uh, you know, with what you're saying and Putin's gambit, why is President Trump always trying to protect Putin?

32:13

Speaker 4
Well, he's not always trying to protect Putin, but what he is trying to do is build a relationship. That's what he was trying to do. He's given it up now, because he realizes the political, uh, cost is just way too high to even, uh, contemplate it. He has, in my opinion, President Trump, the correct view that there should be a mature and responsible relationship between the two, uh, nuclear powers, uh, principal nuclear powers. He's absolutely right.

32:41

Speaker 5
Mm-hmm.

32:42

Speaker 4
But, uh, under the ceri- uh, under what, uh, uh, both President Obama and Hillary Clinton created, which is an atmosphere in which it was charged that, uh, there was collusion, uh, he- he simply doesn't, he can't even begin to build that relationship right now. But I think he was right about the relationship that should be built as soon as it's politically possible.

33:05

Speaker 5
It sounds great that President Trump wanted to form a, a decent union or an understanding, uh, with Putin, but do you think Putin wants to have any understanding with anyone other than what Putin wants?

33:17

Speaker 4
Oh, I don't think there's any doubt about it. And one of the great myths and fictions and, and the lies of our time is that the United States should act in any way except in its own national interest.

33:29

Speaker 5
Right.

33:30

Speaker 4
We have people walking around idiotically saying, you know, the United States should do this or that. Uh, uh, Obama used to say his strategic patience will lead from behind. Uh, we'll do whatever's necessary, uh, irrespective of the proof, uh, a- available or the empirical evidence, uh, and just, you know, I'll pat you on the head, and you just let me put together my little Iranian $150 billion deal, uh, and pave the way for them to be a nuclear power. That's sheer madness. It cannot be rationalized in any way whatsoever.

34:05

Speaker 5
Hmm.

34:06

Speaker 4
It is just an utterly mad moment in the, another mad moment in the Obama administration.

34:12

Speaker 5
Got it.

34:13

Speaker 4
But what is in the US interest is to make certain that Iran never achieves nuclear power, uh, nuclear weaponry, uh, and never as a delivery system that would allow them to strike, uh, any of our people or our, um, uh, a- any part of our nation. Uh, it, it's that straightforward. Whether it be North Korea, whether it be Russia-

34:35

Speaker 5
Mm-hmm.

34:35

Speaker 4
... whether it be China. But we-

34:37

Speaker 5
But how, how far will we go, Lou? I mean, we've got Syria and of course-

34:41

Speaker 4
Ah-

34:41

Speaker 5
... President Trump already came out with a warning, "Don't try doing the, the chemical weapons again." Uh, but what are we gonna do then? Bomb them again? Uh, how often do we bomb-

34:51

Speaker 4
Well, I think this time-

34:52

Speaker 5
Go ahead.

34:52

Speaker 4
... General Jack Keane says it straightforwardly. What we would do is not only bomb, as we did the last time with our cruise missiles, uh, uh, you, the Syrian air base from which they're launched, but everything on it and everything that makes them possible, uh, to car- makes it possible for the, the Syrians to carry out a, a chemical attack would be destroyed forthwith. The days of, uh, empty rhetoric and false red lines are done.

35:19

Speaker 5
Yeah.

35:19

Speaker 4
Strategic patience, the farcical expression concocted by the Obama administration exists no more. Uh, uh, leading from behind is, uh, is for suckers and fools and, and, and very naive fools at that. Um-

35:38

Speaker 5
Do you-

35:38

Speaker 4
... there wi- there are none in this administration.

35:41

Speaker 5
Do you think that the United States, and I mean the people of the United States, have the stomach for another war? I mean, after Iraq and now still Afghanistan-

35:52

Speaker 4
Yeah.

35:52

Speaker 5
... uh, and if we go after North Korea and then got, gonna have China stepping-

35:56

Speaker 4
Yeah.

35:56

Speaker 5
... in at that point, not, h- how much will they take?

36:00

Speaker 4
Well, it's a great question. And what we have found, there is a point at which Americans will not put up with any more. Uh, I think the election of 2016 shows that they will not put up with, uh, more foolishness, uh, uh, uh, at the ballot box. They wanted different answers, they wanted the orthodoxy and the establishment that created the mess we're in to go away. And so now, we have the orthodoxy and the establishment, the status quo being challenged by President Trump, uh, and the Republican Party. And right now, uh, it is making all the difference in the world. Um, and, uh, I, I think you're going to see, uh, increasingly not only prosperity...We're looking at stock markets that are rising, uh, extraordinarily. Since, uh, his election, the, the Dow Jones Industrial has risen, uh, just under 16%. Four trillion dollars of market cap created. We're watching the economy start to, uh, to move forward and to grow.

37:00

Speaker 4
We're looking at the prospect in the third quarter of, uh, a, a GDP growth rate of 3%, or perhaps even higher. I mean, this is... Um, we were told that th- that there was a new normal, that you couldn't achieve 3% GDP growth.

37:15

Speaker 5
Uh-huh.

37:15

Speaker 4
That was the new ide- that was the best that our economy could do, according to, uh, President Obama and his team.

37:22

Speaker 5
Mm-hmm.

37:23

Speaker 4
We're seeing quite the, um... We're, we're seeing that that was just simply another, um, fiction, if you will.

37:29

Speaker 5
And, you know, we all wanna see our country be successful. We really do. But then I heard, uh, it was a commentator, and I could not believe the, what he said. Yes, we want to be economically as good as we possibly can. Man, you know, the top in the world. That's what we wanna be. We have been in the past. Why can't we be now?

37:46

Speaker 4
Mm-hmm.

37:47

Speaker 5
But he also said, "We're not a, not a country of charity." And he was, of course, talking about the Medicaid and this whole healthcare bill, and all that kind of thing. Yes, we are. I mean, come on. We help other countries all the time. Why can't we help our own?

38:01

Speaker 4
Yeah. Uh, I have no idea what that person, uh, was, um, (laughs) was on, but it, it, it's not something that he should participate in very often. Um, so, you know, it, it, so the fact of the matter is-

38:13

Speaker 5
Why can't we... I guess my question is, why can't we be both?

38:16

Speaker 4
Can't we do both what?

38:18

Speaker 5
Be a- a- an economic coun- uh, co- co- country that is the power in the world economically, um, and power wise, the best country, and still have charity to our own country, uh, you know, to our own people. I mean, look at the Medicaid. I mean, you've got-

38:33

Speaker 4
Well, I mean, Mary Jane, I mean, this country, uh, no country on earth is more generous to its people.

38:39

Speaker 5
Absolutely. Absolutely.

38:40

Speaker 4
And no one spends more than we do on public education. I, I mean, this, this is a myth of the left again. It is the big lie constantly repeated, and all the more, uh, false for the, for the velocity which the lie is repeated. Uh, this is a great country, uh, with exceptional people doing great things for one another as well as for the nation. And this president intends to do even greater things, and that means that, uh, when you ask, "What will Americans put up with?" They sure as hell won't put up with open borders. They won't, uh, put up with, um, any further transgression of their rights, and they're going to insist upon a society that was, uh, envisioned by our founders. Uh, you know, it's going to be about, uh, prosperity. It's going to be about strength, uh, peace through strength, and, and building a, a, a brighter destiny every year.

39:36

Speaker 5
Do you think that President Trump is-

39:37

Speaker 4
I'm gonna... Uh, Mary Jane, I'm sorry.

39:39

Speaker 5
Oh, go ahead.

39:39

Speaker 4
I'm gonna ha- I'm gonna have to break away. We're getting ready to-

39:41

Speaker 5
Oh. You're gonna do another one? Okay. You gotta make a promise. 30 seconds or less. Can you make a promise? I'd love to have you back again. We just got started.

39:48

Speaker 4
Surely. Absolutely.

39:49

Speaker 5
Terrific. Thank you so much for taking the time today. And the name of the book is-

39:53

Speaker 4
Thank you.

39:53

Speaker 5
... Putin's Gambit. Thank you.

39:56

Speaker 2
Hang in there with us, 'cause we got more to come.

39:59

Speaker 11
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40:24

Speaker 7
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40:33

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40:59

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41:59

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42:59

Speaker 10
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43:59

Speaker 4
(instrumental music plays) And here she is, Mary Jane Fox.

44:04

Speaker 2
And Ken, would you believe that he actually left, uh, I believe it was CNN in 1999 and he started a website devoted to, uh, astronautical news? It, it was, um, called space.com. That was in July of (laughs) 1999. I, I don't know whatever happened to that because I think in 2001, he went back to CNN. Have you ever heard of that?

44:32

Speaker 3
He ... Oh, yes. He was an investor, uh, at, at the beginning of that company, and he didn't like the way the company was being run, so he sta- s- stepped in and was the CEO for several years. Or, or maybe, well, maybe not several years, about a year and a half. Um, and then, then sold the ... sold ... they sold the company, and, uh, uh, you know, a lot of the space, um, things that are happening now, uh, continue to be reported on, uh, the website that was the original website, space.com.

45:06

Speaker 2
I love it. I th- I had no idea.

45:09

Speaker 3
Yeah.

45:09

Speaker 2
'Til I g- did some research and I thought, "What is exactly is astronautical news?" I'm not sure. (laughs)

45:15

Speaker 3
Right. Yeah.

45:16

Speaker 2
... what I understand what that was.

45:18

Speaker 3
Well, there is th- you know, uh, i- i- there's so many space projects and programs going on that, that America is kinda not aware. We're ki- in New Mexico, we're a little bit more aware of it 'cause we have the space port here.

45:31

Speaker 2
Ah.

45:31

Speaker 3
And we have a lot of companies and, and, you know, they, uh, uh, ships going ... uh, space ships going up and down, and celebrities in it. And we're all at the space port and multiple companies have moved into the space port. And, um, s- space is big in New Mexico.

45:49

Speaker 2
Wow. That's ... It's amazing.

45:51

Speaker 3
Spea-

45:51

Speaker 2
We have to do a, a story on that.

45:53

Speaker 3
Speaking of New Mexico-

45:55

Speaker 2
Yeah.

45:55

Speaker 3
... uh, Dobbs had a, a, a connection to New Mexico.

45:59

Speaker 2
Oh.

45:59

Speaker 3
Uh, he wa- he was married to a, uh, Debbie Segura, who happens to be-

46:05

Speaker 2
Oh.

46:05

Speaker 3
... a second or third cousin of mine. Then I discovered that, as we're doing our ancestry, that we ... there was, uh, you know, that the family trees, we c- we came into a, a point where it was, uh, Hank Segura from ... and he had a brother, Ray Segura, down in Los Angeles. And it said daughter Debbie Segura, and I said, "That name sounds very familiar." And that's, that's, uh ... Well, he didn't have a daughter. He had a, his ... It w- that would've been her grandfather. But she was down that, that family line. It's, uh, two or three cousins away.

46:41

Speaker 3
(laughs)

46:41

Speaker 2
I'll be darned.

46:42

Speaker 3
So this-

46:42

Speaker 2
Have you ever met ... Have you ever met Debbie? 'Cause I-

46:45

Speaker 3
No. No. No.

46:45

Speaker 2
You've never missed him ... Oh, okay.

46:46

Speaker 3
Not a chance.

46:46

Speaker 2
I assume she's still alive.

46:48

Speaker 3
Oh, yeah.

46:48

Speaker 2
Of course.

46:49

Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. But that whole family, I understood, and moved back east, and they live, they live down back east.

46:56

Speaker 2
Ah.

46:56

Speaker 3
So ... But-

46:57

Speaker 2
I- isn't it amazing, though, that all the stuff that we talked about in 2016, we're still talking (laughs) about today? It hasn't changed that much.

47:07

Speaker 3
Yeah, I was thinking, you know, it's like we took a pause for four years called Biden, and then w- we unpaused it, and we continued on.

47:17

Speaker 2
Yes.

47:17

Speaker 3
Everything's the same. It's like we're still talking Putin, we're still talking Iran, we're still talking-

47:23

Speaker 2
Yeah. (laughs)

47:23

Speaker 3
... all those same things, because, uh, those things were not ever resolved or, or dealt with for four years. In fact, they were made worse by, uh, allowing Iran to continue on with, with, uh, building.

47:38

Speaker 2
It's amazing. It's just li- ... It was like the old saying that, uh, 'cause you and I have been in this business for a long time.

47:44

Speaker 3
(laughs)

47:45

Speaker 2
And I've been doing interviews for, like, five decades, uh, not only on celebrities. And the funny thing about it is, it, uh, it seems like every administration just kicks the can down the line (laughs) until the next one, and they still are talking about the same things. Hopefully, we'll get something solved eventually.

48:03

Speaker 3
I, I, uh ... Well, you know, (laughs) I'm not that optimistic, but we live in-

48:10

Speaker 2
No. (laughs)

48:11

Speaker 3
We, we l- we need to re- ... And we live in a wonderful, great country.

48:14

Speaker 2
Well put.

48:14

Speaker 3
You know, I, I just, uh, got back from Nashville, and I, and I was going through the airport and saying, "W- what an amazing country we live in." Look at people coming, going, uh, go over to the Opry House, and, uh, you know, lots of people having a wonderful time. And music, love music, and listen to-

48:38

Speaker 2
Absolutely.

48:39

Speaker 3
And, uh, Nashville-

48:40

Speaker 2
Well, we-

48:41

Speaker 3
... just music, music, music.

48:43

Speaker 2
Well, we lost, um, a very important part of our business, and that's Lou Dobbs. I wish, I wish I woulda had time to, to give him a call and have him back again. But, of course, hey, what is, is. We just have to take it as-

48:59

Speaker 3
Yeah.

48:59

Speaker 2
... as it comes, right?

49:01

Speaker 3
But, but you think about it is Lou Dobbs-... and Rush Limbaugh are gone.

49:08

Speaker 2
Yeah.

49:09

Speaker 3
People we knew.

49:10

Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

49:11

Speaker 3
Who were the, who were the, the people who really pushed the conservative view that America looks at today-

49:21

Speaker 2
Hmm. Absolutely.

49:22

Speaker 3
... as popular America.

49:23

Speaker 2
And Rush and I worked at the same station for quite some time.

49:25

Speaker 3
I know, and I, I did Rush's first video.

49:28

Speaker 2
Yep. (laughs) How funny. I'll tell you. You know, it's, uh, people don't realize, this business is actually like a small fraternity.

49:36

Speaker 3
Right.

49:36

Speaker 2
It's not as big as most people think, and everybody pretty much knows (laughs) everybody and what's going on in their lives.

49:43

Speaker 3
Right.

49:44

Speaker 2
So, anyway, I think, I, I, like I said, this was divergent from what we've normally done with, with our interviews. But Lou Dobbs was a personality, and he was a celebrity, and still is. Uh, so it's, I thought, you know, we'll just put something a little bit different in here, uh, to show you how 2016 and now 2025, and it ain't much different. So I kinda feel-

50:10

Speaker 3
But, you know, one of the things is that we've been dealing with people in the entertainment industry, but there are consistent themes of morality and-

50:20

Speaker 2
Yes.

50:21

Speaker 3

 

... where we are with a country and where we are politically. So it's, it's kind of a political show also.

50:28

Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, you can't, you can't discount the political from the entertainment, because that's all part of it, you know? It, we just do it, but... So I guess, well, (sighs) again, that's it for this episode of Pop Star Talk. And, uh, I hope you agree that Lou Dobbs was entertaining and provocative in so many ways, and I wanted to share that side of Dobbs with all of you folks. It was sad to see him pass, but his legacy of thought will go on since so much of what he aired is still going on today, with plenty of controversy for all. Till our next time again together, thank you for joining Ken and me, Mary Jane Pop, on Pop Star Talk. I will delve into my archives for more entertaining interviews for you to go down memory lane with me and Ken and our engineer, Greg. And please remember live simply, laugh often, love deeply, and above all else, dare to dream.

51:30

Speaker 2
(instrumental music plays)