Welcome, Leo Roundtable at leo roundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show.
My name is Chip de Block and I'm your host for a group of law enforcement professionals
that talk about today's news and issues, but we do from law enforcement perspective.
And let me introduce the crew.
Guys, you've been my way for the video portion of our show.
We've got Chief Rappranellis now.
Formerly with LA County.
No, not the PD, not the LAPD.
No, no, no, LA County Sheriff's Office.
Very important that I that I that I highlight that distinction just to keep Ralph's blood pressure down.
And then he went on to be he did become a police chief, though.
I've never asked him whether he would rather work for PD or an S.O.
But he does work both hats.
So thanks for being that's a good point.
We should ask him that one day.
So thanks for being on the show, Chief Rapp.
Also, Dan O'Kellley with gunlearn at gunlearn.com.
One of our sponsors as well, former ATF.
And yeah, this is going to be a gun show, guys.
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What the world are we talking about?
I already hinted that it's going to be a gun show.
So we've got the United States Postal Service, ways scrapping a
century old ban on shipping handguns.
And then somewhat related to that, ATF flips the script.
So we've got, we're talking about the Second Amendment Foundation.
They begin a deep dive in the 21 massive rule changes.
We'll be talking about those.
We got Trump, Ed Men.
They acts a major Biden era gun restriction and sweeping ATF overhaul.
And we've also got gun rights groups.
They challenged California Open Carry Band in the ninth circuit.
The ninth circuit has been presenting some surprises lately, guys.
So don't think that they're necessarily as liberal and what could you use to Florida?
AG, Sue's Jacksonville.
Yeah, Jacksonville, North of where I'm at over a secret gunlog.
Are you kidding me in Florida?
And then we've got a story decided to shoot him over and over.
An off duty security guard stands over a team who was returning to BB gun at a sporting
good store and execute some.
I they may got a little carried away with a title there, but we'll talk about that
if we have time also deputy justified in the panel shooting of a suspect when he reaches
for a gun and his waistband.
We're definitely need to talk about the no charges for a guest.
Tony, a police officer, shot and killed an armed man at a convenience store.
So that's what we have.
But these these gun articles are going to take some time.
So we'll cover the other stuff as we have time.
So the first story, if you gentlemen don't mind, I'm going to throw in the first two
together.
So we're going to cover one and four, but the United States Postal Service, they've
officially reached the end of its public comment period regarding a major
policy shift.
And they're are looking at allowing private citizens to mail firearms.
Yeah, through the US Postal Service, right?
Usually a taboo, right?
The move it would require overturn a prison ban spanning nearly a century.
Follow it follows illegal memo from the Justice Department questioning the
constitution and the constitutionality of the current mailing restrictions.
Now this has been going on since 1927.
Congress prohibited the mailing of what they call concealable firearms like
pistols, revolve yourself through the federal postal system.
The Department of Justice's Office of Legal Counsel, the issue of memo in April
suggesting that this long-standing rule that it actually is not in line with the
current judicial precedents.
And it also says that the memo specifically pointed to the Supreme
Court's 2022 ruling in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association versus
Bruin.
So we all know the Bruin decision has set a higher bar for government that
justify firearm restrictions.
And according to the DOJ memo, the current ban on mailing handguns, it
creates significant barriers for citizens that are trying to exercise their
Second Amendment rights.
The document argues that the law makes it unnecessarily difficult for people to
travel with firearms for lawful activities like hunting, target shooting, or even
for self-defense.
And here's a quote saying, we conclude that the restriction imposed by
section 1715 that violates the Second Amendment.
And the legal experts further noted that the 1927 statute, remember back when
they, you know, instituted that it interferes with the quote, incidental
rights to acquire and maintain arms, unquote.
And they also claimed that there's no historical history on doing that.
It kind of goes on and on about this.
They're talking about the opposition.
Because of course, we have Democratic officials and gun control advocacy groups.
They're arguing that easily the mailing restrictions could leak to safety
concerns to complicate or complicate the tracking of weapon transfers, which,
you know, I'm sure that they're all over, you know, into and just the
companion article, the other one that I just wanted to mention is that also at
Tampa Free Press at Tampa FBE.com.
While this is going on, ATF is flipping the script and essentially they're
doing they're looking at about doing about 21 massive rule changes.
So ATF, they're talking about proposed rule changes for the federal
register, the Second Amendment Foundation again is involved in this in Bellevue,
Washington.
They've launched an immediate review of the package that are determined how
these regulatory pivots will affect millions of American gun owners and
industry stakeholders actually.
They say the rollout follows a joint announcement made by the acting attorney,
attorney general Todd Blanche, who a lot of people are loving right now and also
the ATF director, Robert Cicada.
I believe is how you pronounce his name.
The updates cover a broad spectrum of federal oversight, including the legal
definition of being engaged in the business of selling firearms.
How long records have to be retained by these guys, specific clear
complications regarding the interstate transportation of weapons under the
gun control act.
And then they're talking about FFLs, record keeping mandates, all that kind of
stuff. So that said, Dan O'Kellie, you want to start us off on this stuff?
I know Ralph's pointing to you too.
So we're hoping to get Dan O'Kellie started on this.
So go ahead, Dan.
Sure.
I mean, where do we start?
Let me as far as mailing handguns.
We need to clarify a little bit.
It's, it's okay, for instance, to mail a long gun, right?
So pick some high capacity rifle that everybody's up in arms about.
That's anti gun.
The AR 15, the AK-47, you can send one of those through the US mail, but you
can't send a two shot derringer through the mail.
Now, we're only talking about the US mail.
It's okay to send either through FedEx, UPS, any of these, you know, shipping
companies. We're only talking about the US Post Office.
Now, on top of that, you can only send a gun from one state to another.
If you're sending it to a licensed gun dealer or gun manufacturer, you know,
you can't mail or ship one of these to your buddy or what have you without
violating federal law.
So there's a lot of hype involved in this law.
And I'll leave it at that for now and we can touch on the next aspect of everything
you've covered.
You know, I, Dan, thank you so much for your, your articulation at that, because
I was concerned with the fact that if I, you know, I sent a gun to New York, from
California and stuff like that to Jimmy Jones, you know, and I'm concerned about,
and you can educate me on this in the audience.
I'm concerned about, you know, somebody get that gun in the wrong hands while it's
being mailed from Ralph Ornellis to Jimmy Jones in New York City.
And I like what you said because you educated me on some of those key points.
And I'm looking forward even to hearing more from you because I'll never put
a tray myself as an expert about weaponry, but you are.
And I'm looking forward to some of the other details or explanations, some of the
other articles.
Thank you so much on that.
Sure.
Um, yeah, I mean, if you have a, let's say you, you have a broken gun and it was
made by, you know, I mean, just, I don't want to name any specific gun company.
So I'll make one up.
I'll use the one that the Wyoming, Toyota uses, right?
What'd you say to act me 320?
How's that?
Right.
Okay.
And act me 320 and it broke.
You can send it directly from your home, you know, through FedEx or whomever to
act me.
You don't have to take it to a dealer and have them ship it to act me.
A lot of people think you do.
And once they fix it, act me, can send it right back to your home because, you
know, that's the situation from you to them and back.
Uh, you can't go through some other person and have them send it to them or
whatever.
You can't have them send it back to a different location.
Um, so there's that, you know, it, we need to be clear on some of the aspects
of what we're talking about.
Anything's going on with FFLs that we should talk about real quick before we
move on to the other one, Stan.
That's a pretty broad topic.
Well, I mean, you know, there is a, I mean, look, it's common.
Look, we, we, we all know cops that have had their FFLs, but I know cops in
some states where it's been very, very difficult to have an FFL and you're,
they're either taxing you or making regulations that have been making it
almost impossible to do your job.
I mean, you're having the light put, uh, iron doors on every entrance and
cameras everywhere and inside outside.
I mean, just, I mean, just all kind of the regulatory stuff too.
There's a federal law and the gun control act that says that if a
federal firearms dealer, federal firearms, licensee, FFL,
violates a state or local law, he is violating this federal law by violating
that state or local law.
So ATF is bound by that.
If you apply to get an FFL or you are an FFL and they find you violating
some state or local thing and it can be zoning.
You know, if you apply to become a licensed dealer, that one of the things
they check is if you're going to run this out of your home is your home in an
area that's zoned for business.
So that's not, they turn you down for that reason.
Um, if the locals are anti gun, you know, if you live in a place that
doesn't like guns, we'll just leave it at that.
They can in still all of these rules, you know, to your point, you have to
have an alarm.
You have to have iron doors.
You have to have this, that, and the other door.
You can't comply federally and you can't get a license.
Well, perfect timing, Dan.
We're up for our first commercial break guys.
We've got a lot more stuff that we're going to be talking about, especially
firearm stuff.
Stay tuned.
Commercial break.
We'll be right back.
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same.
Welcome back.
Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com.
The long-force metalk show.
My name is Chip de Bloc and I'm your host for joined by Chief Ralph Rennelles from California.
We've also got Dan O'Kellick former ATF and he is in the sunny state of Florida.
That's right.
Not too far from me.
So thanks for being on the show, gentlemen.
You know, we have been talking about guns, firearms, some ATF changes and stuff like
that.
We've got some other gun articles that are coming up as well.
Dan, is there anything that you wanted to add before we move on to the to Trump vaccine?
No, the Biden-
No restrictions.
No, let's get into the next one.
All right.
Next one.
We're talking about Trump.
We're talking about Trump 1.0.
We're talking about Trump 1.0.
We're talking, you know, four years of Biden and now of course Trump just in the first year.
Oh my gosh, you know, it's hardly a kick up.
I'm not saying that Trump is really short.
But the Trump admin, they moved the dismantle several high profile firearm regulations,
marking a significant shift in federal gun policy because we're talking, you know, we're
not even talking about Trump 1.0.
We're talking, you know, four years of Biden and now of course Trump just in the first
year.
Oh my gosh, you know, it's hardly a kick up.
Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche announced that the that ATF will publish at least 34
rule changes effectively rolling back restrictions established during the Biden presidency.
And it goes on to say that central to the announcement, it's the repeal of what they
call the stabilization brace rule and the engaged in business regulation.
Now, the former had reclassified pistols that were equipped.
They had stabilized braces on them.
They considered them to be short-barreled rifles and owners had to register them and
they had to pay.
There was a tax $200 they had to or destroy certain components.
Now the latter introduced in April of 2024.
So about two years ago, that required more private sellers to obtain federal firearms
license of private sellers.
And that instance, according to the article, had to become FFLs through a federal judge
it previously blocked his enforcement.
So that's where we're at on that.
General Kelly.
This thing about braces.
Even if they take this rule and throw it in the trash, the fact remains that the definition
of now don't everybody kill me when I say this hear me out.
The definition of a rifle says any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and
having less than 16 inch less than 26 overall length is a short-barreled rifle.
So if you use a brace against your shoulder, you have redesigned it.
That's a TFS argument right or wrong.
And here's the thing.
Since January 1st, there is no more tax on registering a short-barreled rifle.
So fill out a form, send it in.
I mean, ATF can't even keep up with a number of registrations since January.
You know, the gun public is registering everything and that's great.
But once you register your AR pistol, your AK pistol, then you don't even have to fool
around with a brace.
Put a real stock on it and have an SBR.
You didn't have to pay any money to do it.
Here's something that most people don't think about.
When we have an anti-gun administration that goes after, quote, assault weapons or some
automatics, have you ever seen them go after registered NFA firearms, i.e. machine guns,
short-barreled rifles?
No.
So if you register your firearms as NFA, they're pretty much in a protected class in the future,
even if you get an anti-gun administration.
Just something to think about.
Anyway, that's just about braces.
Well, I gotta say, you know, I'm sitting back here and I'm getting an education here.
So I'm glad you're not charging me over the screen right now, Ken.
Oh, hell no.
I mean, these are billable hours.
I know.
I can't afford to have them on the show because I can't afford it.
Yeah.
But it's great.
No, I'm not trying to just.
Well, you pay me to be on the show.
Come on.
You know, I'm not trying to blow smoke at you.
It's really some of the things I've never even thought about because I just, I'm not,
I'm not an expert on that.
So thanks for clarification about the stabilizer and how you should register it.
You know, so I plan to register a half dozen of my guns because then I can put short barrels
on them.
I can put shoulder stocks on my pistols.
I mean, why not?
Hey, the engaged in business regulation.
Anything, anything on that, Dan?
Another good one on that.
I mean, up until the Biden administration, federal law says that you are allowed at the
private individual to make occasional sales to enhance your collection.
It doesn't say what occasional is.
So at different times in during different years, what I mean by times, I've seen administration
say, well, you know, if you're selling one a month, then you're engaged in the business
and the definition of engaged is in the businesses, you know, you're selling guns for
livelihood and profit.
Well, obviously, if you sell something, you're going to make a profit.
Who's going to sell it at a loss, right?
There wouldn't be any stores if you didn't make a profit.
So they use that against you and it's only naturally you expect somebody to make a profit
because prices go up.
So generally, if you keep something for a long enough time, it's going to be worth more
when you sell it.
But during the Biden administration, they came up with this.
Well, if you sell one gun, you're engaged in the business and you don't have a license,
you're busted for dealing with a license, which was ridiculous because it went, you
know, it flew in the face of you're allowed to enhance your collection and make occasional
sales.
The problem is legislators, when they write these federal gun laws, they'll use a term
like occasional, but then they don't define it.
That is occasional.
And so ATF gets to use that to their advantage when they prosecute somebody and say, well,
this month, you know, once is occasional.
And last year, five times in six months was occasional.
So what does it mean?
Good point.
All right.
I love it.
I love it.
Yeah, you know, I like what you said there.
And here you are a part of ATF for a long period of time.
And you're you stated there's ATF is using some of these, you know, policies to go after
some people maybe.
And I'm not putting words in your mouth, Dan, maybe inappropriately, that going after some
of the people that, you know, had occasional sales, you know, so, you know, I thank you
for speaking so forth right.
Thank you so much.
So I think my next question was going to ask Ralph, how often he sells firearms and they
give his home address in which state and locality lives in for the jurisdiction for
the authorities.
So I'm joking with you.
You know, there are obviously people out there that are trafficking firearms, you know, and
when they're doing that, the undercover people who buy guns from them, you know, get admissions
from these people that, you know, they're building and selling.
They don't care who they sell to.
They tell you how often they sell.
You know, there are gun traffickers out there and that's illegal.
We're talking about.
12 seconds out.
So I just see this.
Sorry for the late notice.
Commercial break will be right back.
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Welcome back.
Leo round table at leo round people dot com.
The law enforcement talk show.
My name is Chip the block and I'm your host for joined by Chief Rappler and Ellis from
California.
We've got former ATF, a Dan O Kelly, somewhere in the sunshine state and we're talking guns,
guys.
And look, here we go.
We've got our next one here.
And this is also from Tampa free press at Tampa F B dot com.
This is going to be maybe a little controversial.
We have gun rights groups.
They were challenging California's open carry ban in the ninth circuit.
So we're back in the ninth circuit, a coalition of major firearms advocacy organizations.
They filed a legal brief urgent, the US Court of Appeals for the ninth circuit.
Remember, they've had some really surprising decisions coming out of the night circuit
lately.
And they want them to strike down California's restrictions on open carry of firearms.
California doesn't want you to do that.
They do.
The second amendment foundation and the California rifle and pistol association and
several other groups, they submitted the friend of the court brief and the case of
Baird versus Bonta.
And we talked about this before, but the groups argued that the plain text of the second amendment
and the centuries of American history that they actually those facts protect the right
of people to open carry in public in the United States.
The brief focuses heavily on the brewing test, but we already mentioned again today, the
legal standard established by the Supreme Court back in 2022 and the standard requires
the government to prove that any gun regulation is consistent with the nation's historical
tradition of firearm regulation.
So again, in short, these groups come together, following a friend of the court brief and
they're trying to prevent California from restricting people from open carrying.
Ralph, you want to start us off on this one?
Yeah.
And you know, I liked it what they did.
And you're in California, just to remind our audience that you're in, was it?
Honey to beach, California.
You know, and I like it because listen, you know, all of us on the screen here, the audience
know that when you have people that legally and train properly about open carry, it does
prevent crime.
And guess what?
Working the streets of LA, you know, when the game members have weapons and, you know,
people don't have weapons, good legitimate people who are doing the right thing day in
and day out, you know, guess what?
You know, they're pretty at risk, you know, good citizens.
I'll give you an example.
There's no two Dan and Chip.
We had a Arco gas station.
Now, Joe that owned this, this Arco gas station, he had right to have a weapon in his shop,
in the Arco gas station.
Do you know the couple of shootings I handle him?
He murdered, he killed a robber, right?
After that, I cannot tell you my, all my years working on never had a problem again.
These robbers came in and he, they, yeah, and guess what?
Never had a problem anymore.
And so you know, some, it's, it's, that's where I look at open carry, legitimate people
train our weapons, how to handle appropriately, you know, it does have impact.
So I'm forward.
Let me throw something that I know Dan unmuted and muted, but let me, but you said training,
but open carry has no training standard.
So are you saying that you only are for open carry with the people training it or people
doing the open carry or trained or what do you, what exactly you're saying?
Because that's what open carry typically, you know, I'm going to be, I'm going to be
very blunt and maybe you're not liking some people.
I like to see them have training about the weapon.
So you're not for open carry then because currently open carry is open carry because
it's a constitutional entitlement.
But what you're saying is that you're only for open carry if it requires people to get
training first.
I would hope they would have some training.
Yes, I do.
All right.
Okay.
That's my opinion.
It's a good, it's a good clarification.
Yeah.
But those are two different issues.
If I can interject, I lived in Texas when they allowed open carry in 2016.
And as it was coming up, you know, it's already been approved, but it doesn't take effect
yet.
And oh my goodness, so many people are just panicky about it at that time.
2015 late 2015.
Oh, it's going to be 30 days and everybody's going to be walking around with a hog leg
on their leg, you know, it's going to everybody's going to have a gun.
For the rest of the time I lived in Texas, which was three more years after that took
effect.
I saw one man one time with a visible handgun on his belt one time.
Florida Florida began open carry.
I don't know how many months ago was it?
Was it the beginning of the year?
I forget six months.
I'll have to say no, I think it was months ago.
Yeah, it's been a little time under our belt now with the open carry, but I, I, okay.
But have you seen anyone with, with a pistol visible?
Only only in a, only in a really small town.
Um, other than that, no, I am not.
I mean, you can see it eventually.
You'll see it occasionally.
I have yet to see one.
Yeah.
So people don't do it.
You can, but you don't see it.
It doesn't happen.
You don't have people walking around, you know, with, with pistols on their side, because
anybody with common sense realizes if you can carry it openly, you can carry it concealed
that's generally what those laws include unless they wrote it up a different way.
But why would you show your cards?
I mean, when you play poker, do you go, Hey, here's, here the cards.
I have two, two kings and a sixth.
No, you keep that hidden.
And then if something starts, Hey, I have a solution for this.
But if you have your gun visible and you're sitting in a restaurant, a bank, I don't care
what it is.
And some robber happens to be in there.
He's going to go, Well, I know who the first person is.
I'm going to shoot before I make my play.
You know, you're, you're crazy.
If you let your gun be shown, the best benefit of open carry is when you're in a state that
doesn't have it, but does allow concealed carry.
If the wind, you know, you bend over.
If all of a sudden your gun prints or your shirt blows open, now you get busted.
You get thrown in jail because you displayed your firearm.
That's all open carry really does is prevent and arrest for inadvertent display.
Yeah.
So, so, and thanks for breaking that down.
I mean, that would be even, even a number two, you know, who can understand that.
That was very well defined.
So I feel a lot like Ralph.
What bothers me is people carrying guns that don't have training.
But I have, I respect the constitution.
If Brett was on the show, he would tell you that we have a constitutional right to carry
firearms.
Doesn't matter, train, not train, whatever.
And I would, I would, I'll leave it to the scholars that have more educated than me in
constitutional law.
But I would, I would hope like Ralph that everybody that carries has some training.
We have a story about a security guard that ended up shooting a kid with a return to be
begun to a store.
I haven't seen a video of that.
There are some, you know what?
I have a fear that being an ex cop carrying a gun under Leosa that if I have to take
action somewhere, I'm going to have some Yahoo that has no training and he's going to see
me with a gun, trying to take out a bad guy and he's going to take me out.
And that's, that is my fear.
But I understand that the constitutional law can trump my concern in my, I think there's
a necessity for training, but I can't say to that Trump's with the, with the constitution
allows.
So that's just.
I'm sorry, Dan.
I really like, I really like the examples you gave Dan.
It really clarified some issues for me also.
So, but I do, I do believe in training for people who go to have, and I like to speak
to that one article you brought about that security loss because, you know, let's, let's
wait until we cover it.
No, no, I know.
I know.
I just, I said, I hope we are.
I think everyone can go out on a limb and say every police officer would agree that a
gun, having a gun can be your, your greatest asset or it can be your worst liability.
You know, if somebody takes it away from you, now, oh, I wish I hadn't even brought one,
right?
Because now they wouldn't have one that they're using against me.
So having a gun can be great or not great.
And it can come down to your training.
You know, so in the case of a police officer, have you been taught any weaponry tension?
Somebody tries taking away from you.
And you put them on their face or they just going to take your gun and kill you with it.
So that I think is the best way to clarify why I agree with Ralph that you should have
some training.
You know, let's say they make driver's licenses, some, you know, or it's not privilege anymore
where it's a guaranteed thing.
Yeah.
How about the people who, okay, here's your driver's license and now here they go down
the street, never had driver's head.
You don't know a thing about how he used a car, what the traffic laws are, what can
go wrong, right?
You see it.
We've seen examples of that.
Exactly.
Well, it's the same thing.
There are some rules that if you want to keep from hurting yourself or some innocent person,
you need to know what you're doing for the gun like it or not.
Correct.
Well, guys, real quick, Jacksonville, Florida, Tampa free press at camp at p.com, Florida
AG, Sue's Jacksonville over secret gun log.
So we got the attorney general in Florida, James, youth Meyer, he falls a lawsuit against
the city of Jacksonville.
He did this on Tuesday, a legend at the local government maintained an illegal registry
of firearms that were brought into a public buildings.
And this just blew my mind.
The legal action follows a two month probe reports that security personnel at two city
on locations recorded the personal details and firearm serial numbers.
They actually recorded the serial numbers of the firearms of armed visitors over a two
year period.
You've got to be kidding me.
Under Florida law, of course, government entities are strictly prohibited from creating
or maintaining a list of privately on firearms.
There's even some national stuff about that.
The controversy service in 2025 when two binders containing the logs were discovered and the
mayor's office is denying any knowledge of it.
Youth Meyer, you know, the AG is saying, look, even though they refuse to prosecute these
guys in the past, now he wants $5 million in damages, which is, of course, the maximum
penalty allowed by law, along with additional court ordered relief.
The mayor has done a dig in saying that, hey, we did we deny involved.
And they were saying that they were unaware of it.
So I'm just kind of setting the story up because we're getting ready to go for a commercial
break, guys.
Stick with us.
We'll talk about this when we get back.
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Welcome back.
Leo Roundtable at Leo Roundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show.
My name is Chip the Block and I'm your host for a joint bike chief rapper in Los from California.
And we've got former ATF, Dan O'Kellie in the state of Florida.
We've been talking about just before the commercial break.
I went over the Florida AG and that is James Uthmeyer.
Soon the Jacksonville City Jacksonville and of course we got the mayor there as well,
over secret gun logs.
They were recording guns and serial numbers and who's carrying them for a two year period.
They had two journals and it was going on in two different buildings.
Crazy.
Dan O'Kellie.
Well, I have to give major props to the attorney general for putting it into this.
I'm not trying to hurt the city of Jacksonville, but if it's already a state law, why did the
city, why did the mayor, why did whoever the powers that be there not know about it?
I mean, did they willfully violate state law?
This mirrors the Fire and Moners Protection Act of 1986, which is a federal rewrite of
the gun control act.
And in the FOPA, it says that the federal government cannot maintain any kind of a federal gun
registry.
You know, I've given props to ATF in the past because I know in past years, for instance,
the city of Chicago has sued ATF saying, hey, we want those records.
We want to know from your tracing database who in the city of Chicago has a firearm so
we can take action against them or whatever they were going to do with it.
And ATF to their credit fought that, refused to give that information and never did.
You know, and they did that with other jurisdictions also.
You know, I got a question is what was that city doing with that registry, that list?
What's the purpose?
What was the goal that they were doing that?
I mean, that's always my concern.
What is the goal of that mission?
Yeah, they're a question.
Yeah, they're saying it was one individual, I believe it was a female that took it about
herself to do it, but there were two different buildings and two different logs.
Yeah, I have quite there is no, there is no way that went on for two years without people
knowing about it.
You know, I can surmise that they may have in good faith thought, well, hey, when you
get a police call to a certain address, we can query this database real quick and say,
hey, there are guns in this house so that when the officers show up, you know, what are
you walking into?
Well, hey, the guy owns three AK 47, something like that.
You know, there may have been.
Give them a benefit of doubt.
Maybe there was a good faith reason for this, but still I'm glad the state law exists and
I'm glad that the AG is taking action to stop because it's just an avenue for future seizures.
So you give an interesting example of that, but how did I get that information from the
city hall or the city buildings to the police department?
And I would love to do a little bit of an inquiry to find out that really transpired
because, you know, you know, and I don't chip, you get calls for serving Ralph Ordell
was his house.
And I am previous that maybe they found as a weapon that goes into a call history about
Ralph Ordell was his home.
So the next time they go out there, that's in the call for a future call.
So, you know, that's that's an interesting example you give, Dan, but I wonder if they
ever did share some of that information.
Well, guys, we got six minutes and I got two stories to cover.
So let's roll with this.
Right.com decided to shoot him over and over.
Opportunity Security Guard stands over teen who was returning to BB gun at a sporting
good store and executes him.
So look, I we're talking to look, this new source, it's called news break.
So this is going to be slanted.
I we I have to accept that up front, even tell right from the title.
But let's let's talk about this.
And I want to do this quickly.
I hope we get to a story with a video component.
Washington State man headed to prison for decades after he shoots and kills a 17 year
old boy, he claimed was armed and about the commit of robbery.
But this guy was actually returning to BB gun to a sporting good store.
So Aaron Brown, my overseas 52 years old, he was convicted on Friday of second degree
murder and assault in the shooting death of a 17 year old, Hasrod, Arani, outside the
big five sporting good store in Renton, which is a Seattle suburb.
Now Myers is faces just over 20 to 20 years in jail for murder plus another 10 years for
firearm enhancements, according to the King County prosecutor's office.
So he's looking at what close to 38 years.
The defendant is an off duty security guard was in his car, waiting for some of the finishes
martial arts class.
He sees this guy, there's 17 year old and two other teenagers carrying what he believed
to be a Glock handgun, according to the probable cause affidavit obtained by the Associated
Press.
Myers believed the teams were going to go in the store and they were going to rob it.
In reality, prosecutors say that they were actually returning a malfunctioning BB gun.
Now our security guards armed with a real Glock.
He runs up to the teenagers, holds him a gun point.
The King County prosecutor Elaine Lee said the boys repeatedly tell him that it's a BB
gun.
It's not real.
Myers ignored the police.
I don't see any huge, you know, alarms yet as he holds them a gun point, the 17 year old
that I'm getting shot.
He went by Ali.
He drops the fake gun and he holds up his hands and they say that when he turned the
walk away that the security guard decided to shoot him, wants twice over and over continuing
as the kid falls to his knees and his hands and then he continued to shoot him while he
was faced down on the ground.
Now look, there's not a video of this.
This is what they're saying.
In all, it says that the security guard fired seven shots, six of which hit the kid in the
back and the defense attorney reportedly told jurors that Myers needed the act based on
what he saw and the attorney also noted that the BB gun looked real and that the security
guard didn't want anybody to get hurt and he's going to be sentenced to like 21st Chief
Ralph.
You know, first of all, being a staff instructor at the academy that I would always teach my
recruits and even senior officers, when you're off duty and you can become a really good
witness unless your life or your family's life is in danger and I look at this.
There's a security guard, not a police officer.
He's off duty.
I got to be honest with you.
He stepped into a very difficult situation where he put himself in an arena that he should
never put himself in.
If he believed there's a potential of some nefarious action, criminal robbery, some be
a good witness, call 911, give a good description.
I'll tell you something.
I had a recruiter mind who did something like this after he graduated with his child in
a parking lot.
Take action and guess what?
Around skipped off the ground, hit the child and killed his child.
And I want to tell you something.
That's why I always preach.
If you could be a great witness, be that great witness to the police department, use the
911 system, give good descriptions with the count.
So you know something?
It saddens me for the security guard, but I believe he put himself in an arena.
He should never put himself in.
Yeah.
Dan?
I agree.
He may have had a desire to be a hero, be the guy that saves the day rather than let
somebody else take the glory.
But he probably was well-based in assuming this was a real weapon.
I mean, who's going to walk in with a BB gun when they could walk in with a real weapon?
Very stupid on the kid's part.
You're going to leave this thing visible.
Don't put it in a paper bag or something in a walk in a store with what looks like a
gun.
That's the purpose of airsoft and things like that.
The reason they're so popular is because they're exactly authentic.
They look like the real thing, although there's no lethality, no legalities.
But then yeah, I don't get the whole, the kid drops it, puts his hands up and the guy
still shoots him repeatedly.
That's either the worst security guard, if not the worst.
I just don't have any more words for that.
What possesses you to murder somebody in cold blood after they've dropped it and put their
hands up in your in control of the situation?
Yeah.
Like I have to bring up the news source again because I really, when I have such a liberal
woke news source, and I'm talking about what news break, even in the title, how heavily
it was slanted, I don't necessarily believe every, you know, everything that they say
went down.
I mean, look, it could have been that the kid was, you know, the security guard, not
knowing what the laws are because he's a security guard, not a cop, and thinking that,
hey, I prevented an armed robbery.
Now I got my armed robbery or, you know, my attempted armed robbery, such that maybe he's
thinking it was, you know, he's got attempted armed robbery charges on this guy.
And now the kid wants to leave after he drops a gun.
Maybe he's taking his or right to use lethal.
I mean, I don't know.
I guess that could be.
I really question.
I don't, it's just not a good bonafide.
I wish I had more information.
I wish I had a video or more information on this.
I wish I had more information about the defense, you know, for the, for the security guard.
But I agree every time guys, whether you're, and this is, look, this is great to talk about
on the show because we got a lot of retired cops like me are off duty cops and you see
crap.
You've always got to run scenarios, you know, through your head, because you like Ralph
said, you, you never know.
You could be that, that cop that gets out of the, out of the academy.
You've got your family with you.
Um, you know, there's trade offs, guys.
And I didn't know, I didn't ask where the, where the bullet came from, whether it was
from the cop or, or from the bad guy that killed the son, that would, that, that would
be horrible that was your own, but, but yet you, you never know.
So run the scenarios through your brain, think about the possible consequences.
And you know, you never really know like the story the MPS told on rumble about the cop
that shoots the citizen that has somebody at gunpoint.
Um, you know, gosh, you know, you, you just, you don't want that.
You don't want to be that guy.
Hey, we're a, we're running out of time.
Uh, Dan O'Kellick and Chief Ralph O'Nell is thank you guys so much for, uh, for being
on the show and for talking about all the stuff and for breaking it down, uh, for us
down.
We just appreciate that.
Want to mention the wind up blue at the windup blue dot org, Lieutenant Randy Sutton's 501c
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Guys, we'll see you back tomorrow.
12 noon Eastern.