LEO Round Table, May 13, 2026
LEO Round Table with Chip DeBlock
S11E093, Police Take Out Suspect Ramming Bus With His Car During Tense Encounter
Suburbs affected by rising crime due to loss of control by Baltimore Democrats. Former deputy found guilty of reckless homicide. Man accused of child molestation tased and arrested. D.C. police leaders face firing due to alleged crime data coverup. Police take out suspect ramming bus with his car during tense encounter.
Leo Roundtable: Urban Lawlessness, Tactical Integrity, and the Crisis of Policy
Visualizing Key Highlights...
This episode of the Leo Roundtable features law enforcement professionals Chip DeBlock and Captain Bret Bartlett discussing the escalating lawlessness in major American cities and its expansion into suburban areas. The panel analyzes high-profile use-of-force incidents in Ohio, Florida, and Chicago, while critiquing the systemic failures in crime data reporting and tactical training. The discussion emphasizes the necessity of proactive policing and the dangers of "soft on crime" policies that prioritize political optics over public safety.
Detailed Key Point Summary
1. The "Failed Progressive Experiment" and Urban Decay
The discussion opens with a critical look at Baltimore and other "blue" jurisdictions, characterizing them as failed progressive experiments. Lawmakers are accused of being "DEI activists" whose criminal justice reforms have fueled a decade of violent crime and a subsequent exodus of productive, working-class taxpayers. This lawlessness is not contained; it is spreading into suburbs as politicians lose control of the narrative and the streets. The panel notes that cities like San Francisco, Portland, and New York are facing similar population collapses and business departures due to a lack of repercussions for criminal behavior.
2. Street Takeovers and the "Soft on Crime" Response
A significant portion of the dialogue focuses on the rise of "street takeovers" by large groups of youths. Captain Bartlett argues that these groups "test the waters" to see how much they can get away with; if there is no immediate "stomp" on the behavior, it escalates. A contrast is drawn between cities that allow hoodlums to run wild and jurisdictions like Tampa, where multiple agencies recently coordinated to shut down a bridge takeover, resulting in the confiscation of approximately 50 motorcycles. The panel advocates for tough racing laws that penalize both participants and spectators to deter future incidents.
Tactical Comparison: Proactive vs. Passive Policing
| Strategy | Outcome (Perceived) |
|---|---|
| Proactive (e.g., Tampa) | Asset seizure, arrests, and deterrence of future "takeovers." |
| Passive (e.g., LA/Baltimore) | Escalation of lawlessness, "concrete poisoning," and taxpayer flight. |
| Pretext Stop Bans | Loss of investigative tools; higher long-term costs for residents. |
3. Use of Force Analysis: Ohio and Florida Case Studies
The panel dissects the conviction of former Deputy Jason Meade for reckless homicide in the 2020 death of Casey Goodson Jr. Bartlett expresses skepticism regarding the conviction, noting that if a suspect points a gun at an officer, the use of deadly force is justified regardless of whether the suspect was wearing earbuds or carrying sandwiches. They also discuss the "lag time" or "reactionary gap," explaining how an officer can legally fire shots that land in a suspect's back if the suspect turns during the second-and-a-half it takes for the brain to process the "stop shooting" command. In contrast, a Lee County, Florida, incident is praised for a successful transition from a handgun to a Taser when a child molestation suspect pulled a knife, highlighting the importance of keeping the Taser on the opposite side of the duty belt to avoid "weapon confusion".
4. Data Integrity and the Chicago Shooting Incident
The episode addresses the scandal in Washington D.C., where top police officials face firing for allegedly manipulating crime statistics to make the city appear safer. Bartlett explains the technical differences between UCR (Uniform Crime Reporting) and NIBRS (National Incident-Based Reporting System), suggesting that many agencies avoid NIBRS because it more accurately records multiple offenses, leading to a perceived "spike" in crime. Finally, a Chicago shooting is reviewed where a murder suspect rammed a bus and police vehicles. The panel critiques the "dancing" (adrenaline-fueled movement) of the officers and the dangerous attempt to break a car window with the muzzle of a firearm, which could lead to a negligent discharge.
Crime Reporting Standards
Summary-based; often used to "fudge" or simplify numbers.
Incident-based; captures detailed data for every offense.
"A lot of agencies didn't want to go to NIBRS because there's a spike in crime [due to more accurate reporting]." - Capt. Bartlett
Key Data
- Asset Seizure: Approximately 50 motorcycles were confiscated during the Tampa bridge takeover response.
- Legal Settlement: The city of Albuquerque (New Mexico) is paying $6.5 million in a fatal shooting settlement related to a mental health call.
- Tactical Accuracy: In the Jason Meade case, the deputy fired 6 rounds with 100% accuracy (5 in the back, 1 in the side).
- Chicago Incident: Officers fired at least 5 shots at a suspect ramming vehicles in Humboldt Park.
To-Do
- Visit the new online store at leoroundtable.com to support the show.
- Use the discount code REDIO15 at thegulls.com for a 15% discount on purchases.
- Review the differences between UCR and NIBRS reporting to understand how crime data is manipulated.
- Agency heads should consider implementing a "stand-down for training" one week per month to maintain tactical skills.
- Support The Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org to assist officers suffering from PTSD and other injuries.
Conclusion
This episode highlights a widening gap between progressive political mandates and the operational realities of law enforcement. From the "fudging" of crime statistics in D.C. to the tactical chaos observed in Chicago, the panel argues that the lack of consistent training and the erosion of proactive policing tools (like pretext stops) are creating a vacuum of authority. The consensus remains that without strict repercussions and high-quality, frequent training, urban lawlessness will continue to deteriorate the quality of life in both cities and their surrounding suburbs.
LEO Round Table
LEO Round Table is a nationally syndicated law enforcement satellite radio talk show discussing today's news and issues from a law enforcement perspective. They also have components on TV, Podcasts, and Social Media. Their panelists are among a Who's Who of law enforcement professionals and attorneys from around the country.
https://leoroundtable.com/how-to-become-a-panelist/
00:13
Speaker 1
Welcome. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I'm your host for a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And you recognize him, Captain Bret Bartlett. He's also the founder of Exemplar Defense Solutions at exemplardefense.com. He, he has 32 years of exemplary, and I do mean ex- I can't spell it, but I can say it, exemplary law enforcement experience, so thanks for being on the show, Bret. And shout out to our sponsors. You know, Gulls is our title sponsor at gulls.com. Don't forget about that 50% discount code. It's REDIO15. Next time you go to thegulls.com, type in REDIO15 in order to get 15% off your next purchase. Also, we have compliantetechnologies.com, our satellite sponsor, gunlearn.com, mymedicare.live, safewarerecruiting.com, and twobells.com. They built a new online store at leoroundtable.com, so check that out.
01:01
Speaker 1
Also, a shout-out to Brian Burns for the Tampa Free Press, ray dietrich, formerlawman.com, travis Yates, lawofficer.com. Thanks to all the subsidies that probably make this show happen. And guys, don't forget, eh, we are on so many outlets, podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Apple iTunes. I- if it's o- if it's a, if it's a podcast, we're on it. Uh, we're on radio, social media, Rumble, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, X, so, uh, Truth Social. All you have to do is go to leoroundtable.com. That'll tell you all the outlets that we're on, the dates and times that we're broadcast on radio, all that good stuff, so check that out as well. Um, now let's wet the appetite. What in the world are we gonna be talking about today? We've got, uh, the, well, I'll just drop you the main topic. You know, ex- exponentially deteriorating, Baltimore's lawlessness, it's spreading into the suburbs as Democrats lose control. So, we're gonna, we're not gonna limit this to Baltimore.
01:48
Speaker 1
We're gonna even be talking about the effect of this going on all over the country. That'll be our first topic. It's a little deep, uh, but we're gonna be talking about that 'cause remember, our goal is to make you guys among the smartest people in the room. When you get in a room with other people and you're talking about these things, we want you guys to know what you're talking about. Also, uh, Jason Meade convicted of reckless homicide. A jury hung on a murder charge. Yeah, they wanted to get this guy for murder. Um, I wish we had a video to go along with this, but we're gonna be talking about that. Then we have New Mexico City is paying six and a half million in the fatal shooting of a man during a mental health call. We got deputies tased a Florida man in a, i- i- and, and you know, this is one of the occasions where the taser actually worked.
02:22
Speaker 1
And this guy was accused of a child molestation case, a- a- and he pulls out a knife, and he ends up stabbing himself, but that's an interesting call. Top DC police officials facing firing amid a probe into alleged crime data cover-up. Does that sound familiar? Yeah, fudging the numbers. Then we have a machete-wielding man. He injures a K-9. Bret, why in the world did they deploy a K-9 on this dude with a friggin' machete?
02:42
Speaker 2
I don't know.
02:42
Speaker 1
I have no idea. It, it, it just kills me. And then finally, New Mexico City is paying, um... Well, this is the, uh, the, the, um, the mental health call again. We'll talk about that later. But, uh, if you're ready, Bret-
02:52
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:52
Speaker 1
... let's go into the first main topic. And, uh, like I said, it has a tendency, they have a tendency to be a little bit deeper, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna go and talk about it from the article, but this is gonna be wide-ranging. We're not gonna limit this, uh, to Baltimore. So, this is in the libertydaily.com. I thought it was a great topic, great title, "Exponentially Deteriorating: Baltimore's Lawlessness Spreads into the Suburbs as Democrats Lose Control." So, in the article, it talks about Maryland is one of the many blue states, of course there's other, others that have transformed into a failed progressive experiment, uh, where net migration flows are negative as, as productive. Uh, working class taxpayers are fleeing the state, not just because of high taxes and power bill crisis, but also because they've had enough of, of left-wing politicians and their failed criminal justice and social reforms that have fueled a decade of violent crime chaos.
03:42
Speaker 1
And of course, we've been covering that here. It says that they've extensiv- extensively covered more than a decade of violent crime riots, population collapse, and the exodus of taxpayers and businesses. That's certainly gotta have repercussions on a, on a, uh, on a jurisdiction. Now, they're talking about Baltimore County, but, um, but in this, left-wing politicians who masquerade, they consider them as masquerading as competent managers, but they're merely DEI activists who have unleashed years of lawlessness through failed policy. So, it, it's not limited just to Baltimore. We've got a lot of other blue jurisdictions to where just things have gone south, and people are fleeing. I mean, look at what's going on in New York. Look at what's happened in San Francisco. How about, do we need to go any further than Portland? Um, so all the... I mean, I'm getting ready to go to Carmel. I'm gonna fly into the San Francisco airport, and Bret, I'm about 20 minutes away from downtown.
04:32
Speaker 1
I'm, uh, I'm going nowhere d- near downtown, you know, San Francisco. Uh, your thoughts on this one?
04:37
Speaker 2
Well, it, it's, it's just a matter of time. You know, it's pretty bad when some of these cities are so bad where people watching TV in Somalia are going, "Wow, man, I'm sure glad I don't live over in that city right there 'cause it's a crap hole." But it, it's soft on crime. It's defund the police. They're paying the price. Some of the cities, it took a little bit longer. You know, in Tampa, just, uh, last few days, they had, uh, one of those, uh, takeovers where a bunch-
05:02
Speaker 1
Well, I di- well, they did work ou-
05:03
Speaker 2
... a bunch of kids show up.
05:04
Speaker 1
... they did work out well, too well-
05:06
Speaker 2
No, they, no-
05:06
Speaker 1
... for the takeovers.
05:06
Speaker 2
No, they wer- they went, they went to jail. They, a lot of them got stomped and went to jail. But, you know, they, they're just testing the water to see what happens, and if, and if, uh, Tampa let them get away with it, then we'd see more of it. While if Baltimore would stomp on it, then-
05:20
Speaker 1
Yeah.
05:20
Speaker 2
... it would stop. But, you know, these kids, these groups, they look to see what's happening, and if nothing happens, what's the lesson? Let's do it some more.
05:28
Speaker 1
Yeah. No repercussions.
05:29
Speaker 2
All over the country, these, these Democrat-led cities are having takeovers and lawlessness because the judges are apologizing to the bad guy rather than to the victims.
05:40
Speaker 1
You know, we covered that takeover last week. I, I'm, I, I have to say, I mean, look, I know that we handle things a little differently here than they do in some of the, uh, in, in some of these other jurisdictions, you know, where they just kind of let the, the hoodlums run wild. But I, I, I was so impressed that we had multiple agencies, and that they moved in to shut down both sides of that bridge.
05:58
Speaker 2
Yeah.
05:58
Speaker 1
I mean, could you imagine the, the, the sp- the, the pucker or the sphincter factor on that one? Um, do you know how many... What, what did we... we confiscated, what, 50 motorcycles or something around-
06:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.
06:08
Speaker 1
... like that? It was just crazy.
06:09
Speaker 2
And the- and they're not cheap, some of those little crotch rockets.
06:11
Speaker 1
Oh, no. That's, that's gonna put a hurting on somebody, so I love it.
06:14
Speaker 2
And, you know, they need to put out a, uh, a, um, a release saying, "Listen, if you do this-"... um, you're gonna go to hospital. And what they're gonna treat you for is concrete poisoning.
06:26
Speaker 1
(laughs) You know they can't do that.
06:27
Speaker 2
And there's no known cure other than taping you up and sending you to central booking.
06:33
Speaker 1
So look, so the humor in what you guys just heard from Captain Brett Bartlett is that he used to be in charge of internal affairs.
06:40
Speaker 2
(laughs)
06:40
Speaker 1
And that's it.
06:40
Speaker 2
And I wasn't... I wasn't very good at it. (laughs)
06:43
Speaker 1
That is the... That is the humor with, with that, so-
06:45
Speaker 2
But isn't that true though? You know, there should be a public service... If you break the law, you're gonna go to jail.
06:50
Speaker 1
Yeah.
06:50
Speaker 2
If you, if you, if you, if you hurt an officer, you're gonna go to the hospital.
06:54
Speaker 1
Yeah.
06:55
Speaker 2
If you resist, you go to the hospital.
06:55
Speaker 1
Well, you know, these guys... These guys won't do, won't be doing that again anytime soon or, or probably never again.
07:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, probably not. Probably.
07:02
Speaker 1
Number one, they're... They're out the, they're out the bike. I mean, who can... who can afford to write that, you know, $5,000, $10,000 check-
07:07
Speaker 2
Right.
07:07
Speaker 1
... you know, every time you do something stupid, you know?
07:09
Speaker 2
Right. And those, and those-
07:11
Speaker 1
And, and those-
07:11
Speaker 2
And those racing laws, they're pretty tough. If you're standing there watching it, you get to go to jail too.
07:16
Speaker 1
Wow.
07:16
Speaker 2
Yeah.
07:16
Speaker 1
You know, um, how about if those things are owned still by mom and dad and they're... and their little, little hoodlums go out there?
07:21
Speaker 2
Well-
07:21
Speaker 1
That might even b- be a double whammy.
07:24
Speaker 2
Maybe. But you wonder why the parents are letting the kids out to start with, so maybe they're not involved. So maybe it's not a big deal unless maybe their checkbook starts to get pounded on.
07:33
Speaker 1
That's what I'm thinking. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it was funny when whenever we-
07:37
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
07:37
Speaker 1
Hey, I know you, you and I, Brett, and I are alike. You know, whenever we, we, you know... Well, my traffic career wasn't, wasn't, wasn't long, but whenever I did, I hated to give tickets. And, uh, and if I did stroke a kid, I knew that more than likely, mom and dad were gonna be adversely affected for the insurance rates, all that stuff.
07:56
Speaker 2
Yeah. Right.
07:56
Speaker 1
So I took that... Dude, I, I, I have made more than one phone call in lieu of writing a ticket-
08:02
Speaker 2
Yeah.
08:02
Speaker 1
... just to solve the problem. And, and that phone call to mom and dad, and they have to show up on the scene and stuff, and they don't get slammed with a $250 ticket and their insurance rates don't go up and they're like, they... Yeah, they, they took care of it at home.
08:14
Speaker 2
Well, you know, uh, uh, if, if you saw this, out in Los Angeles, I think it was, uh, unanimously, the city council passed an ordinance saying that officers can't pull people over for minor traffic violations because it affects-
08:25
Speaker 1
Pretext stops.
08:26
Speaker 2
It affects Black and brown people.
08:28
Speaker 1
Yeah. Adversely.
08:29
Speaker 2
Yeah.
08:30
Speaker 1
Isn't that something? Well, the, the, the people that live in those jurisdictions are gonna pay dearly for that one, so-
08:34
Speaker 2
Oh, they'll, they'll pay the price.
08:35
Speaker 1
Yeah.
08:36
Speaker 2
And they call it a pretext stop. It's not a pretext stop.
08:39
Speaker 1
Well, they, they called them-
08:40
Speaker 2
If you see... If you... No. If you see a vi-
08:42
Speaker 1
But there's nothing wrong with it.
08:42
Speaker 2
If you see a violation, it's a violation. What you do with it, right? Um, now, if you knew that Joe, the dope dealer, was going down the street and you're pretty sure he had dope in his car and you pulled him over for having a headlight out, that's a pretext stop.
08:57
Speaker 1
Yeah.
08:57
Speaker 2
If you pull somebody over, just general public for having a headlight out, that's not a pretext stop.
09:02
Speaker 1
No, I, I, I get it. You're, you're, you're right. They, they do lump it in, um, kind of, like, kind of like assault weapons, right?
09:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, they're gonna pay the price. They're gonna pay the price.
09:12
Speaker 1
(laughs) Did you see on-
09:13
Speaker 2
In Col- in Colorado, uh, in, uh, Denver, they tried to outlaw AR-15s and some... And, and the federal government stepped in and said, "Oh, you're not gonna do that."
09:22
Speaker 1
That's nice.
09:22
Speaker 2
That's gonna be fun to watch.
09:24
Speaker 1
You know, we've got, uh... Well, we've got a M- Mary Lou Bartlett is on, so my girlfriend's on.
09:28
Speaker 2
Oh.
09:28
Speaker 1
So there she is. And, uh-
09:30
Speaker 2
She's taking, she's taking a break from repaving the driveway.
09:32
Speaker 1
Yeah. She called me the other day. I don't know if you knew that or not, but yeah, she called me.
09:36
Speaker 2
Oh, Lordy.
09:36
Speaker 1
She called me. We had a nice little conversation. So, uh... And then we got Sharon Caudell on. Uh, she's on and she's saying, "Hey, maybe they'll at least stay off the bridges."
09:43
Speaker 2
Yeah.
09:43
Speaker 1
So it looks like, uh, Sharon is agreeing with us, so I love it.
09:46
Speaker 2
Yeah.
09:46
Speaker 1
I love it. So we can-
09:47
Speaker 2
Not sure.
09:48
Speaker 1
I, I, I almost want to say, if your jurisdiction, you can't handle it, send your hoodlums down to here and we'll take care of them in Tampa, but I don't wanna go that far. (laughs)
09:55
Speaker 2
No, no, no. Let's go. Let's say Polk County.
09:57
Speaker 1
Yeah. Hell yeah. Go see Grady Judd. And, and it's not... Remember, it's not Polk, it's Imperial Polk County, according to you-
10:03
Speaker 2
No, uh, Grady imports criminals.
10:05
Speaker 1
(laughs)
10:05
Speaker 2
He brings them in on those, uh, those-
10:07
Speaker 1
He advertises it.
10:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, on those, uh, uh, innocent, images cases, you know, they-
10:12
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh. He's got it. Guys, if you're... if you're hooking up with some underage and it's in Polk County, you, you get... They should-
10:19
Speaker 2
Yeah.
10:19
Speaker 1
... do some kind of a sentencing enhancement.
10:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.
10:22
Speaker 1
Just based off of that, just based off of it being in Polk County 'cause how stupid can you be for going, driving in the Polk? I mean, even when I, even when I have to drive through Polk County and I'm gonna be going on vacation somewhere else, I just... I have to search my car and make sure I don't have anything in there-
10:35
Speaker 2
Sure.
10:35
Speaker 1
... that, you know, like, like, you know, like a, like a unserialized, you know, like a, like a, like a 3D printed gun or something like that. I don't wanna get... You know, I don't wanna get jammed up in Polk County.
10:44
Speaker 2
Well, if you go to Polk County for one of those things for a meetup-
10:48
Speaker 1
(laughs) Oh.
10:49
Speaker 2
Like, like you told Glenna that one time, that's just stupid.
10:53
Speaker 1
Don't even bring that up, Chauncey. All right. Uh, moving a- moving along, guys. We've got about a minute before we, uh, come to our first commercial break. So, uh, let's, uh, let's... Dispatch.com, we'll go through this as much as I can before the commercial break, but a guy named Jason Mead convicted of reckless homicide, but the jury was hung on a murder charge. So this guy was a Franklin County Sheriff's Office deputy. And so this jury found him out. Now, he's a former deputy, so that... There's a little sign there. Uh, they found him guilty of reckless homicide in the 2020 death of a guy named Casey Goodson Jr. So, so that's about six years ago. So it's been a while, but of course, you know, these trials take a little bit of time. Uh, there's bullet points. So they found him guilty of reckless homicide, um, and they all said the jury could not reach a unanimous decision on a murder charge resulting in a mistrial for that specific count.
11:43
Speaker 1
And we're gonna go on and what else happened here and let you guys decide on whether you have questions or not about this. Time for a first commercial break. Stick with us. We'll be right back. (instrumental music plays)
11:54
Speaker 3
My family only cares about one thing, that I come home safe.
12:00
Speaker 4
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12:52
Speaker 1
Welcome back. LEAR Round Table at learroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlockk, and I'm your host. We're joined by Captain Brett Bartlett with Exumber Defense Solutions at exumberdefense.com. You know, we left off talking about an interesting story here. We got a, uh, a former deputy, Jason Mead, convicted of reckless homicide. The jury got hung up on the murder charge. And just the bullet points are, jury found former Franklin County Sheriff's Office deputy, Jason Mead, guilty of reckless homicide in the 2020 death of Casey Goodson, Jr. They could not reach a unanimous decision on a murder charge. So again, reckless homicide versus murder. They nailed him with reckless homicide, not with a murder char- charge. Um, Mead, the deputy, also... well, they say he shot Goodson six times after stating that he saw the bad guy waving a gun and then pointed it at him.
13:39
Speaker 1
But the family said that he was returning home from a dentist appointment, their son, with sandwiches, and that he had earbuds in at the time of the shooting. Now, um, we've got the mother that's... Tamala Payne talking. They're, you know, she's talking here. We've got, um, this, this, uh, former cop, you know, convicted. Now we're waiting on sentencing. The judge is David Young. Jurors were unable for a second time. So this has been multiple times. And the mom, the surviving mother, wanted them to go... wants them to go a third time. But this is the, uh, second time they have, uh, failed to reach a decision on whether or not Deputy Mead was guilty of a murder in connection with the December 4th, 2020 shooting. I would argue that maybe they said he wasn't guilty of murder and that's why they went with reckless homicide, although there still may be issues with that charge.
14:23
Speaker 1
Um, it goes on to say, some of the details, uh, Deputy Mead's attorneys say that, uh, "We don't think it's reckless for an officer to use deadly force when someone points a gun at him." That is according to the attorneys, Mark Collins, Katelyn Stevens and Steve Noether. And they also go on to say that, "An issue that is remaining to be decided is the appropriate punishment for the reckless homicide, which is a third-degree felony." And this is the pro- uh, province of Judge Young in his decision, guided by sentencing factors, uh, not sympathy. And they're gonna be weighing more into that later. Now, Mead said that he saw Goodson, our bad guy, waving a gun with an extended magazine inside of a car. Mead, our deputy, did a U-turn, he, uh, follows, follows him, sees the person walking towards a house with a gun in one hand and a plastic bag in the other. The person known as Goodson, the one he shot, had his hood up and moved quicker after seeing the deputy a short distance away.
15:15
Speaker 1
So, now the deputy said in his statement that he orders Goodson, you know, the guy with the gun and the hood and the bag, multiple times to show his hands and put the gun down. But he alleged that Goodson turned his upper body and pointed the handgun at him. So, Mead, our deputy, fired his department-issued rifle. So, he had a rifle out, which I gotta admit, I love seeing rifles out. Um, six rounds and 100% accuracy. He hit the bad guy. And I say bad guy 'cause he was noncompliant. He hit him all six times, five in the back and one in the side. Brett can explain that, why that could legally go down in a second. A handgun with an extended magazine was found near where Goodson fell down, um, and it said in the kitchen. The home belonged to Goodson's grandmother. Goodson died a short time later at a, at a nearby hospital. The family said he was returning from a dentist appointment and he had sandwiches.
16:04
Speaker 1
Testimony at the first trial included that Goodson had earbuds and playing music at an unknown volume. Testimony from the first trial also showed that the, uh, Goodson's mother had texted him to alert him to police being in the area.
16:17
Speaker 2
(laughs)
16:17
Speaker 1
That's another flag, right? Right, Brett? So, Mead's case went to trial back in February of 2024, two years ago. That jury was unable to reach a unanimous verdict. So, the key... The case was rescheduled to go back to trial in 2025. It didn't happen, so now with the 2026. So, they've been trying to nail this cop. And it just like, you know... And, and they... it sounds like mother, you know, really wanted them to go back for a third time, but, uh, but, uh, but I, I don't know if the double jeopardy's gonna jump in here, Brett, but, uh, the floor is yours.
16:49
Speaker 2
Well, only about one paragraph was dedicated to that article t- to tell them about the case and, and, and the event. And if that's all true, then I don't understand why he's been, uh, been to court at all. Somebody's running with a gun in their hand and they turn it, the gun, towards me and I shoot them. I don't understand what the issue is. He described the gun. They found the gun. I don't understand what's going on with it. There's part of that article that's just not telling the full story. But if that is the full story, then I think he's wrongly convict- wrongly charged, much less wrongly convicted.
17:20
Speaker 1
So, let me ask you this, Captain Brett. So, you remember back in the days before we had body cams and stuff, and they... we would show up in court and the judge would take our word over the civilian counterpart, you know, in a case, because we were sworn law enforcement, right?
17:32
Speaker 2
Yeah.
17:32
Speaker 1
But we have seen that change now. And so, what if there... what if there is no video, no body cam on this one? Um, is that... what do you... does it change your perspective?
17:42
Speaker 2
Well, you know, the, the... It, it changes their perspec- not mine. It changes their perspective. You know, body camer- cameras came out at the, at the demand of, of, uh, uh, neighborhood social groups wanting accountability for the cops. Well, they got it, and it turns out the cops were accountable. So, now the, the, the other side, now they don't want the cops wearing cameras anymore, because it, it showed by, by huge predominance that cops are doing the right thing. So, I, I don't know. I don't understand this case at all. If I saw somebody run with a gun, I could describe the gun, they pointed the gun at me, I'm gonna shoot them.
18:17
Speaker 1
You know, even if they, even if they didn't point the gun at you, but if they were going to point the gun at you or-
18:22
Speaker 2
Right. Right.
18:22
Speaker 1
I mean, I mean, yeah. So can you explain to our audience, Captain, because six shots fired. I'm surprised you haven't even commented on the accuracy yet of that because I mean, all, but he had a rifle.
18:32
Speaker 2
Yeah.
18:32
Speaker 1
And so if we had Scott Start on the show, Scott would be jumping up and down and clapping, but, but, the, the bad guy got hit, five in the back, one in the side. Can you explain how that maybe happened?
18:41
Speaker 2
Yeah. If, if, if you and I were, uh, um, uh, showing a demonstration, I could put a gun over my shoulder and point it at you and pull the trigger and hit you. With my back fully towards you, I could hit you with a gun over my shoulder.
18:55
Speaker 1
Yeah. So where I'm going with this is that even ... But the guy said that he turned his body towards him and that he pointed the gun at him.
19:01
Speaker 2
Yeah.
19:01
Speaker 1
So it's very possible that and, and, and probable that our, whether he had a rifle or a gun or, or a pistol doesn't matter, but our cop, when he started shooting the bad guy, I suspect that the first shot went to the bad guy's side and as the bad guy's turning away from him, the other five landed in the back.
19:18
Speaker 2
It could be.
19:18
Speaker 1
Completely
19:18
Speaker 2
And, and, you know, and we've talked about this before. There is a, there is a lapse, there's a lag time from the time that the, the eyes see the, see the bad guy turning and pass the data to the brain and the brain then says, "Yes, they're turning." And then sends a signal to the hand saying, "Stop shooting." There's time that passes.
19:35
Speaker 1
Right.
19:36
Speaker 2
And, and you can turn, you can turn away from me faster than my brain can say, "Stop shooting," and, and the trigger stops pulling the trigger. Trigger finger stops pulling the trigger.
19:46
Speaker 1
It's gonna take about a second and a half for all that to happen and that's, and that's, and that's on a, on a good day. It may take you and me a little longer so, uh ... (laughs)
19:52
Speaker 2
Yeah, if you're, well, if you're jacked up on fear and adrenaline and you're-
19:55
Speaker 1
Yeah.
19:55
Speaker 2
... and you're zeroed in on something, yeah, it's gonna slow you down a little bit. But I, again, I don't understand this case. Um, I think it's a miscarriage of justice.
20:03
Speaker 1
All right. Well, look, I love it. Great insight on this, Captain. We're up for our second commercial break, so guys, uh, we got some great stuff coming up. Stick with us. We'll be right back. All right, guys. It's time to talk about Compliant Technologies at complianttechnologies.com and they're committed to providing non-lethal solutions to help officers gain the upper hand safely and rapidly in a humane, low optics manner, utilizing what they call their CD3. That stands for conductive distraction and de-escalation device technology. Now their flagship product we all know by now, it's called the Glove. It's not only helped officers tens of thousands of times, but they've actually had over 250,000 deployments and guess what? No injuries, no deaths. An amazing stat. They've actually achieved non-lethal status in an arena that predominantly can only offer less lethal results.
20:48
Speaker 1
And when it comes to weapons retention, transitioning to a sidearm or a conductive energy weapon, the Glove at complianttechnologies.com. They have virtually eliminated weapons confusion. So stay ahead of the game with Compliant Technologies and the revolutionary CD3 that hundreds of agencies have already turned to nationwide. And friends, take it from me, when it comes to safety, this is one of the most commonsense, hands-on solutions that's ever come along. Go to complianttechnologies.com today. Tell them that Chip and Brent sent you. Complianttechnologies.com. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. The Law Enforcement Talk Show. My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host. We are joined by Captain Brett Bartlett, founder of Exumbra Defense Solutions at exumbradefense.com. Uh, Brett, are you ready to move on to a story with a video component or any last words from that last story?
21:27
Speaker 2
Nope.
21:28
Speaker 1
We had a cop that got, you know, in the grease, but I guess on the upside, reckless homicide versus the murder charge.
21:33
Speaker 2
Yeah.
21:34
Speaker 1
I'd go with that.
21:35
Speaker 2
Yeah.
21:35
Speaker 1
And, uh, it's up to the judge for the sentencing apparently.
21:37
Speaker 2
Yeah. I don't know. I just, I don't understand what we're not missing or not seeing, but it doesn't seem-
21:42
Speaker 1
Well, Ohio, Ohio might be my, on my, you know, on my list for places not to move to anywhere.
21:49
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah.
21:50
Speaker 1
Did you see the WalletHub article that, that came out last ... We covered it last week, but the WalletHub, the, the, uh, the 100 best places or the 50 best places to be a police officer and the number one state was the state of California. I mean, yeah, I, I, I know. And then, and then-
22:04
Speaker 2
Oh, you know, they tried that stuff on us before and we, we looked at it closely.
22:07
Speaker 1
They cover it every year.
22:08
Speaker 2
And we went, "Oh, there's no way."
22:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, they-
22:10
Speaker 2
There's just no way.
22:10
Speaker 1
They're, they're idiots over there.
22:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.
22:11
Speaker 1
But Wa- But, you know, the scary, and why, the only reason why I want it covered is because I don't want some poor soul, you know, some kid that's fresh out of, out of college reading the article and thinking that, "I'm gonna go work for LAPD or San Francisco." Or wherever, you know, or, or even worse, maybe Oakland PD-
22:27
Speaker 2
Well, you know-
22:27
Speaker 1
... not knowing any better because they got, they got morons writing at Wallet, WalletHub and putting out this bad information, you know?
22:33
Speaker 2
Some of those young'uns out there may, they may not know the difference between a California agency and a Florida agency. They may not know.
22:40
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, and, and I mean, it's really, really east coast policing and west coast poli- policing guys, night and day, night and day. Um, and, and they don't even-
22:50
Speaker 2
I'm very disappointed in NYPD starting around COVID.
22:54
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.
22:54
Speaker 2
They just quit. They just stopped.
22:57
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of disappointments.
22:59
Speaker 2
Yeah.
22:59
Speaker 1
Well, look, um, it's, you know, we can always move to Chicago.
23:03
Speaker 2
(laughs) Yeah. Yeah.
23:05
Speaker 1
(laughs) All right. Uh, rumble.com. This is Butter, our favorite law enforcement video channel. We've got New Mexico. So we're in New Mexico. Remember Al- We love Albuquerque, right? Because they, they, they, they do real police work in Albuquerque. Uh, so New Mexico City, they pay six and a half million dollars in the fatal shooting of a man during a mental health call. So the first flag, uh, for, just for people that, that are, that are not used to this stuff, the first flag is the mental health calls. So they're, it's almost like they're, they're, they're hinting that it wa- it was, they were only supposed to get a mental health response by calling law enforcement, you know, the guys with the guns and, and they're trying to act like that makes a difference. So anyhow, so that's the first flag in the article. They're saying that New Mexico, the city of New Mexico is having to pay six and a half million in a fatal shooting, you know, with a guy with a mental health issue. Okay?
23:51
Speaker 1
So Humboldt Park, Illinois, um, and, uh, so I thought this, uh, we're in Illinois? This said New Mexico City. Let's, let's just-
24:00
Speaker 2
Uh.
24:00
Speaker 1
... go through the...
24:01
Speaker 2
I think it's New Mexico.
24:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, this, uh-
24:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. Albuquerque, yeah.
24:06
Speaker 1
Is it Albuquerque? Well, you know what? For some reason it's not lining up with what I have. So I'll tell you what. I'll look-
24:12
Speaker 2
Russian interference.
24:14
Speaker 1
Is that, is that what it is you think?
24:15
Speaker 2
Yeah. Putin.
24:16
Speaker 1
Put-So, I, I tell you what, I, I hate to... I hate to pivot, guys, but let me just pivot until, uh, until I can figure out what went wrong with this one. Let me go to, uh, Lee County, Florida real quick on this one. And I apologize, but the stuff under the article was not from Albuquerque, so... And I will fix that on the commercial break. But let's jump to another story. Deputies tase a Florida man accused in a child molestation case after he pulls out a knife.
24:39
Speaker 3
I'm not going to jail for nothing. I- Drop the knife!
24:45
Speaker 5
(Taser clicking)
24:47
Speaker 3
Ah! Ah! Ah Taser deployed! Taser deployed!
24:50
Speaker 5
(Arming Taser)
24:52
Speaker 3
Ah! Ah! Ah!
24:54
Speaker 2
He's by himself?
24:55
Speaker 3
Until we tased him. Ah Watch out, he's got a knife.
25:01
Speaker 2
Go, go, go.
25:01
Speaker 3
Watch it. Watch it. Let me see your hands! Drop the knife. Drop the... Don't approach me. Don't
25:05
Speaker 2
Let me see. I know, I don't.
25:06
Speaker 3
Let me see your hands!
25:07
Speaker 2
Watch it.
25:07
Speaker 3
Drop the knife. (grunting)
25:08
Speaker 2
Drop the knife.
25:08
Speaker 3
Turn around! Turn around! Put your hands behind your back.
25:11
Speaker 2
Ma'am, lay down. Police department.
25:13
Speaker 1
And this is at rumble.com again. This is butter. This is actually a... This is, this is a pretty wild story. And, and the video is priceless. So, we're in Lee County, Florida. Body cam shows a Florida deputy use their Taser to tase a 60-year-old dude, uh, that's a child molest- molestation suspect. And, uh, he suddenly grabs a large kitchen knife. Now, the Lee County Sheriff's Office says that its Fugitive Warrants Unit arrested this guy named Patrick Barron on Wednesday morning on an active felony warrant for lewd or lascivious molestation of a, uh, uh, involving a child. Uh, so he's an accused child molester. Uh, deputies say that they started investigating this guy back in January. There were allegations that he preyed on, on a child and engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct. Investigators say that the forensic evidence ultimately secured an arrest warrant, so it sounds like they got a pretty tight case on this guy.
26:00
Speaker 1
And I gotta tell you, I'm pretty, I'm pretty impressed with the guys that, that were on scene taking this guy into custody. You'll, you'll find out why in a minute. So, according to Barron's criminal probable cause affidavit, the child told deputies that he showed inappropriate images on a tablet and inappropriately touched her, uh, during the incident at a family home. That's even worse, right? Forensic re- interview conducted at the Children's Advocacy Center reportedly, uh, supported the allegations. The victim later identified this guy in a photo lineup. So, on Wednesday, detectives move in to Barron's home and they're, they're serving the warrant. Deputies say they observed him inside the home. Now, his deputies are clearly on the outside of the home, he's inside, and the door is open and, uh, and, and the window's open, too. Body cam footage from a responding deputy shows Barron.
26:46
Speaker 1
He grabs a large kitchen knife, threatens to harm himself, and keeps repeating to the deputy that, "Hey, I'm not gonna go to jail." So, the deputy has got his, his duty pistol out a- and, Bret, I got... I mean, I don't know if you were as impressed as me, but deputy transitions very quickly from the gun to the Taser, deploys the Taser a- and, I mean, I know body cams make things look further away than they are. It looks like a decent distance. Makes contact.
27:13
Speaker 2
Yep.
27:13
Speaker 1
Dude's in the kitchen, falls backward. Remember, the deputy's on the outside of the house. Falls backward and he's like, you know, he, he's... You know what it is? I'm gonna tell you exactly what it was. It was, uh... (deputy cycling Taser) Nope, that's the wrong... Here. Here you go.
27:26
Speaker 2
Whoa.
27:26
Speaker 1
That's what you heard. Yeah, that's a nasty sound, isn't it? Yeah. So, he was being cycled on the, on the side of the kitchen, uh, cabinet, or, and, uh, and countertop. So, he's later found th-... It takes, it takes them a while to go in to grab him, but the other deputies, you know, go in while this guy is, uh, is keeping his finger on it. I think he took more than a five-second ride.
27:43
Speaker 2
Yep.
27:43
Speaker 1
He stabbed himself once in the stomach during the incident. He's treated at the hospital, medically cleared, transported to Lee County Jail where I'm assuming he currently resides at. Uh, what'd you think about this one, Captain?
27:55
Speaker 2
Uh, yeah, it was a very good hit with the Taser. I was kind of hoping that when he fell backwards that he'd knock over a frying pan full of hot grease or something, but that, that just didn't happen.
28:04
Speaker 1
No.
28:04
Speaker 2
At least gave him some punishment. But I, I just thought it was odd, and we see this a lot when people are being Tasered and they're being ordered to do things, you, you cannot comply with that order. They were telling him to, to, uh, roll over and, you know, you can't do that when you're being Tasered. It's almost like when a K-9 is, is, is chewing on your junk. You're just not gonna respond to orders other than, you know, "I just... I need, I need to live." (clears throat) But it was, it was a good outcome. He went to jail, and, uh, he won't last long in a Florida jail, I'm thinking.
28:36
Speaker 1
All right. I love it. I love it. So, so no problems with the shooting? What do you think about the transition?
28:43
Speaker 2
Oh, very good.
28:43
Speaker 1
From the handgun to the-
28:43
Speaker 2
Oh, very good.
28:44
Speaker 1
... to the Taser.
28:45
Speaker 2
Yeah, and that's, uh, that's why you always have your gun on your opposite side of the Taser so there's a very distinctive set of movements that you need to get one out versus the other. You know, we've seen some videos in the past years where that just didn't work out well at all. And, uh, um, but maybe they put a damper on that. The Taser and the gun gotta be on opposite sides.
29:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. No, I'm, I'm, I'm with you. I'm with you. 'Cause what could happen? What could go wrong?
29:10
Speaker 2
Oh, you pull the wrong thing and you pull the trigger.
29:13
Speaker 1
(laughs)
29:13
Speaker 2
You know, that happened, uh, at least, uh, I think Los Angeles, maybe another California city, uh, at their, um, underground train station years ago. (clears throat) And another one in a, in a smaller town recently where a female-
29:29
Speaker 1
Was that, was that Kimberly?
29:30
Speaker 2
Uh-
29:30
Speaker 1
No. Kim Potter was the one that shot the guy. She thought it was her apartment and it was, uh-
29:35
Speaker 2
Yeah, I don't remember the name.
29:36
Speaker 1
... back at her apartment.
29:36
Speaker 2
But you even heard her yell, "Taser, Taser, Taser." And then she pulled the trigger on the firearm and, and killed the guy.
29:42
Speaker 1
Does, does this not show you how valuable training is, Bret?
29:45
Speaker 2
What?
29:45
Speaker 1
At, at, at all these different levels?
29:47
Speaker 2
It's, it's all, all about training, which policemen never, ever, ever get enough of.
29:53
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, so, if you're an agency head and you're watching the show, and we have plenty ch- chiefs and sheriffs that are even active, you know, on the show, you know, that are panelists. Uh, it... If you, if you, if you didn't grow up as a trainer, um, you, you may not get it. And, and, and we get, we, we get it that you may not get it, but I... But it, it's really... I guess, I guess what I'm trying to say is just that we have found in his- historically that the people that grew up training their teachers, it just, it just...... you, you can't get rid of it. It just... It's just part of your core. And those leaders that have that background s- have a tendency, um, at, at least in my opinion, to be more receptive to training. They realize the importance of it. It's a lii- It lowers liability and, and it cre- (cell phone chimes) and, and it increases safety. So, um, you know, very important.
30:38
Speaker 1
Now, the guys that don't show u- I guess what I'm, I'm trying to say is just be open and receptive to that. You know? Brent, do you agree?
30:45
Speaker 2
Yeah.
30:46
Speaker 1
Go ahead.
30:46
Speaker 2
I think, I think if I was the chief, I would have se- uh, one week out of four, one week, one week a month, be a stand-down for training.
30:54
Speaker 1
Seriously?
30:54
Speaker 2
Stand down for training. Oh, be, oh, yeah. But you'd have to have enough people where you could afford to do that. Because one of us chiefs used to tell us, "I gotta fill zones, I gotta fill zones."
31:04
Speaker 1
Right.
31:04
Speaker 2
Right? "Gotta make people h- I gotta fill zones." Well, what if we shoot somebody in error? That cost of doing business, we'll live with it.
31:11
Speaker 1
I'm with you.
31:12
Speaker 2
Cost of doing business. You know, you cannot take somebody out once a year for driving, for firearms, def- and, and expect them to pick up and retain those skills. You cannot do that.
31:22
Speaker 1
I totally agree. Well, I tell you what, we've got, uh, the gateway pundit.com. Uh, we've got some DC officials in trouble for alleged crime data cover-up. So sounds a little fam- we've heard this. We've even experienced some of this at our own agency.
31:36
Speaker 2
Well-
31:36
Speaker 1
Top DC police-
31:37
Speaker 2
I'll talk about that.
31:38
Speaker 1
Well, look, uh, top DC officials, uh, or police officials, they're facing firing amid a probe in the alleged crime data coverup. I have some questions about this too. Uh, multiple senior level, uh, off- officials in the Washington, DC Metropolitan Police Department, they're facing termination - that's serious - or discipline as investigations into alleged manipulation of crime statistics intensify. So according to multiple law enforcement sources who spoke with The Washington Post, but, uh, I don't think it really necessarily names them, several high ranking officers, including two assistant chiefs, have received or are expected to receive disciplinary notices tied to an internal affairs probe into crime data practices. So I guess at the very least, at least it's an IA probe, which means administrative and it's not criminal. But guys, it's time to go to our commercial break. Stick with us. We'll be right back. All right, guys. Time to talk about GunLearn at gunlearn.com.
32:27
Speaker 1
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33:12
Speaker 1
It's an amazing opportunity. You can go to thegunlearn.com to get more information. Hook up with the founder, Dan O'Kelly. Again, that is gunlearn.com. You'll be very glad that you did. Gunlearn.com. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. The Law Enforcement Talk Show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I'm your host. We're joined by Captain Brett Bartlett from Exumber Defense Solutions at exumberdefense.com. And, uh, I think that we had, uh, left off talking about, um, this, uh, crime stat coverup in the Washington, DC ar- area. We're talking about the Metropolitan Police Department. So, uh, we've got some high ranking officials that they're saying are either gonna be, you know, fired or severely disciplined. We've got Assistant Chief Lashay McCall and Second District Commander, um, Savoy. I'm not even gonna try to do the first name. They've both been placed on administrative leave, and so that's, that's not necessarily a good sign.
34:04
Speaker 1
Uh, but when you're on admin leave without pay, that's certainly a bad sign. And both of these people have been linked to the, the, uh, crime statistics investigation where, uh, they're being alleged to have lied or manipulated the city's crime, uh, statistics. And then we got a former Third District commander, uh, Michael Pillium, he's also under review as well. They say he's the former commander, so I don't know what happened there. Well, I guess they're just saying that because he's placed on leave in 2025 after allegations of crime classifications in his district were altered. So apparently, it's a little bit of an issue, and it's been going on since, what, last year or so. Uh, Pillium has denied wrongdoing, but remains a subject of possible discipline. Then we've gotten this, another one, uh, Assistant Chief Andre Wright, facing a separate investigation after allegedly inappropriate text messages were found on his phone. That sounds like another, uh, another, um, investigation.
34:55
Speaker 1
(laughs) He's already been placed on admin leave. And then the internal probe is focused on whether department supervisors downgraded serious crimes to less severe categories, potentially making crime rates appear lower, uh, than what they were. An- an- and, uh, and Brett, correct me if I'm wrong, we just had the National Guard come in to help out with the situation there, and, and, and those numbers got good overnight, I thought, or so I thought. What do you think?
35:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. Uh, they, they did go down. It's, it's, uh, uh, it's one of the best years for homicide in DC that they, they can remember, if there's a best year. But, you know, these people got caught fudging the numbers trying to make their people look good, and, and they were browbeating their, their, uh, subordinates to change stuff. And you just can't do that. Now, I remember this years ago at Tampa Police, uh, you know, and we used UCR. Remember UCR, the FBI UCR, that's what everybody uses.
35:48
Speaker 1
Uniform Crime Report.
35:48
Speaker 2
Yeah. And we, we weren't doing it right. We weren't reporting right. So we got training and the lieutenants, uh, we were given, like, a, a manual, UCR manual, and we would go through the reports. And let's say, if it was a burglary versus a trespass, we would, we would add an addendum saying this is a u- let's say it wasn't a burglary, maybe burglary by Florida law, but not a burglary by UCR. So we would put in there, add an addendum. This is by UCR, a trespass. The bad guy still went to jail for burglary. In other words, we weren't, we weren't dropping charges, but we were just trying to be more accurate. And of course, what did it look like? "Well, you guys are fudging the numbers." No, we weren't. We were, we're just trying to get back to being more accurate.
36:30
Speaker 1
... UCR reporting versus what we have been doing for all those years prior to that. So, let me ask you this, though. I remember when, when TPD- Mm-hmm. ... we would get... Well, let's just say, they, they evolved to where if there was a string of car burglaries, but they happened overnight within like a- Yeah. ... one-block area, they would consider that one offense. Yeah. How do you feel about that? Yeah. Well, that, that's a UCR guideline. That is the guideline you're saying? Yeah. Y- yeah, you can't pick and choose that. Now, what was little gray was, how far apart could they be in distance? How far apart could they be in time? There was not, not much am- I remember about that. Okay. And s- and I imagine we each interpret it a different way, but, um, e- either report UCR correctly or don't report anything. Yeah. You know? Why is it that- We just hadn't, we hadn't been doing it.
37:16
Speaker 1
So, if we, I guess, I guess, the big, the big noticeable flag was is that w- we had been doing it right, right or wrong, and if we were doing it wrong, and then all of a sudden you go and do it the right way, but then you have a huge reduction as a result and stuff, that definitely raises eyebrows, so, yeah. Well, I don't know if you remember this, but, uh, you remember that, uh, that record system we used? Remember we wrote our reports in the computer? Versadex. Versadex. That was NIBRS, National Incident-Based Recording System. NIBRS was supposed to come after UCR. It was more accurate. But the problem was if we had all gone to NIBRS, all of a sudden we'd be seeing spikes in crime because they're being reported according to NIBRS. And a lot of agencies didn't wanna do that because there's a spike in crime. So, a lot of agencies, even though UCR is, is well outdated, um, they still use UCR. Okay. Because e- that system that we got, I think it was outta Canada, was based around- It...
38:12
Speaker 1
NIBRS. They, they... I was getting ready to say that. It is a Ca- Canadian company. Yeah. I was gonna... I've got the answer why everything went south, right? Yeah. It's a Canada company. (laughs) Yep. For, for our readers, do some Google search on UCR versus NIBRS, NIBRS, and, and do some research to find out why that was the common thing, but a lot of agencies never went with it. All right. All right. Good to know. Well, thanks. You... A lot of very interesting and some fresh data. So, there's some stuff I didn't, wasn't even aware of. So, thanks, Captain. Hey, uh, let's, uh, let's do this. Let's go back to that Chicago story at rumble.com. This is Burnersip Channel. Chicago Police, they have a body cam footage that shows deadly shooting after this guy hits a woman, a bus, and other cars. So, this is a, um... This is kinda crazy.
38:53
Speaker 1
So, we're in Humboldt Park, Illinois and sh- police said that after five o'clock or 5:30 PM, officers attempted to conduct an investigatory stop on a vehicle that was wanted in connection with a shooting that happened on the nearby Eisenhower Expressway earlier in the day. Now, the vehicle is a white Mercedes. It flees from police and a pursuit is initiated. Now, we have body cams showing the moments that two Chicago police officers approached this white Mercedes, um, and it crashed into a, uh, into a, uh, a bus. Uh, uh, it looked like a, like a, like a, a, a bus... city bus service after the pursuit by the officers. So, it... the... you know what? It looks like there was a backup in traffic, and it looks like the guy's getting off of a side street and making a right-hand turn and he can't quite make it 'cause the bus is in the way and his left front fender clips the right front of the bus, and he can't get. Cops start swarming him, so what's he do?
39:43
Speaker 1
Reverse and pounds it forward and reverses. He's slamming into a, a, uh, an unmarked police SUV behind him that had a couple cops who got bailed out of. And he's going back and forth, and back and forth, ramming in both directions and stuff. Brad, I was waiting. Now, I, I... The first video, we have a surveillance video with no sound, so I was waiting for someone to start shooting the sucker before he, before he, he hurt somebody. Yeah I mean, crap. Um, and, and then when we saw the body cams, we heard the shots. You know, you can see they did still a little later than what I would have liked, but...
40:10
Speaker 3
Get out the fucking car! I'll fucking shoot you! Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out of the fucking car! I'll kill you! I'll kill you!
40:22
Speaker 1
Fuck!
40:22
Speaker 3
Get out of the car! Roddy, he's ramming the cars! He's ramming the cars! (gun firing) Get out of the car! Get out of the car! Get out of the car! 10-1, 10-1. Guys, back up. Back up. Please, leave. Leave. Please, leave. Please. Guys, guys, guys, guys
40:41
Speaker 1
I see his head. Watch out. I see his head. Come on, hit it.
40:45
Speaker 3
Watch out. Watch out. Watch out. I see his head. Break the window. Please, man, please. I got his head. You don't hit him, man. Please, don't shoot. I got his hands. He's going to break the window. Break the window. Break the window.
40:57
Speaker 1
Um, the officer should be heard yelling, "Hey, get out of the car or we'll... we're gonna shoot." And the driver then starts ramming the bus and the unmarked car at, you know, behind him, and then the officers fire at least five shots at the passenger window of the car, which maybe you can address 'cause that was, uh... that we had... we had... we had people on both sides. We even had a... The male officer on the driver's side had his hand and he was trying to punch through the glass window a- and hit the driver just before this back and forth started going a- and he wasn't even able to break the, uh, glass. And, um, and then another officer says, "Hey, I, I see he's been hit." And, uh, bystanders are heard pleading with the police not to shoot, which... a- and then the police respond by saying, "Hey, this dude's wanted for murder." And, uh, the suspect's taken to a Mount Sinai Hospital, multiple gunshot wounds. He's pronounced dead, identified as Derek Jordan. Captain Brett.
41:44
Speaker 1
Oh, did you notice that the officers there were doing the dance? They cannot stand still. They're dancing. They're absolutely Yeah. ... dancing around because they're jacked up on fear and adrenaline, mostly adrenaline. Um, nobody was in charge, nobody was giving commands, nobody took control of that situation. Everybody was screaming commands like that's gonna work. I noticed the guy on the bus, on the bus video, he's just looking out the window and, and... You know, if I was on a bus and there was a shooting six feet, I think I'd go ahead and lay it on down. But- Well- ... you know, that's just... that's their city, I guess. But, yeah, they're... Um, it's, it's really hard to train for this but, you, you've gotta pick a position, stay in position, don't dance, don't move around. Just let one person give commands, somebody be in charge. If you got to pull the trigger, pull the trigger. I saw one officer with a...
42:30
Speaker 1
with his gun in his hand trying to break the glass with the tip of his gun, with the muzzle of his gun. Oh, on the passenger side. That never ever works. And what's likely to happen? You're likely to fire a shot-That was scary.
42:42
Speaker 2
So.
42:42
Speaker 1
He's jamming that pistol with his hand on it. I don't know whether his hand was on the trigger or not. But you're right, he's trying to break it through the front of the, uh, of the barrel. That was crazy.
42:50
Speaker 2
You know what that technique is called? "How dare you disregard my authority."
42:55
Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.
42:55
Speaker 2
That's why it's known. It has no bearing on anything other than "I'm in charge and you're not." You can't break the glass with the muzzle of your gun.
43:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean-
43:05
Speaker 2
Because if you do, you're, you know, you might accidentally, not accidentally, you might negligently put your finger on the trigger and fire a shot when you're not ready to do that.
43:12
Speaker 1
Any, uh, any, uh, thing in hindsight you would do? Like I, I, I mean, what about the, the vehicle that stopped behind the bad guy's car, if he would've gotten up close and personal? But it was a cool car, he didn't have any-
43:21
Speaker 2
Maybe, but he... Here's what I would've said. Of course, uh, we're all subject to looking at it, right?
43:24
Speaker 1
Yeah.
43:24
Speaker 2
We all have the hindsight of 20/20. I would've told those officers, "Back up. Get out of the way. Back up. Get out of the way. I'm in charge. Back up. Get out of the way. Bill, you give commands. Everybody else, back up, get out of the way."
43:39
Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.
43:39
Speaker 2
"Quit dancing."
43:41
Speaker 1
Well, I'm glad we didn't have any, uh, any good guys hit because you know, their, our, our officer firing, was firing-
43:46
Speaker 2
Oh.
43:46
Speaker 1
... through the passenger window into the cockpit. And I'm just glad we didn't have over-penetration.
43:51
Speaker 2
Yep. Yep, yep.
43:53
Speaker 1
So, well, Brent, it's been another fantastic show.
43:55
Speaker 2
Yep.
43:56
Speaker 1
Um, I, I appreciate-
43:56
Speaker 2
Yes, indeed. Thanks to our listeners and, uh, Rick and Betty and let's see who else. Uh, uh, Sharon and Todd and Sailor.
44:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. The, uh, the, uh, the list is long and distinguished and those are just the people that are posting for us, so thanks guys for watching the show. Everybody over on, uh, on Rumble as well, LinkedIn, thank you guys for watching the show. I do want to mention The Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org. Lieutenant Randy Sutton's 501 (c) (3) helping cops out that are world of hurt, that are suffering from things like PTSD and other issues. I support them monthly. If you're looking for a, uh, a good organization to support that can use your funding, uh, The Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org. And also don's forget, Captain Bartlett's got Exumbra Defense Solutions at exumbradefense.com. And guys, please support our sponsors that go to great lengths to bring this good quality content to you. We have our title sponsor, Gols at gols.com. Don't forget the discount code, RADIO15. Complytechnologies.com, gunlearn.com, mymedicare.live, safeguardrecruiting.com, xubelis.com.
44:51
Speaker 1
We'll see you guys back tomorrow, 12:00 noon Eastern. (instrumental music plays)
