[00:13] Speaker 1: (Rock music playing) Welcome to Leo Round Table at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block, and I'm your host. We're a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And let me introduce the crew, guys, if you don't mind waiting for the video portion of our show. We have Dr. Joel Schultz, he's back, retired police chief, currently residing somewhere in a bunker in Colorado. So, thanks for being on the show, uh, Chief. Also, we've got Chief Ralph Ornelas, retired from the LA County Sheriff's Department, 'cause, you know, they don't have sheriff's offices over there, and then he became a police chief. And, uh, he didn't have to go far, you know, in California, and he's still, he's still there, so, uh... And, uh, the only guy I know in California that can get into the water and doesn't have to wear a wetsuit. Ju- just amaze- just amazing.

[00:56] Speaker 1: But, uh, thanks so much for being on the show, guys. Appreciate it. A shout-out to our sponsors, you know, our title sponsor, golis at golis.com, also complianttechnologies.com, our satellite sponsor. We also have gunlearn.com, mymedicare.live, safeguardrecruiting.com, our streaming sponsor. And yes, if you need, if you need recruits at your agency and you wanna hire them the right way where they'll actually stay and you can retain them, safeguardrecruiting.com is the way to go. And they also are our streaming sponsor, allowing us to stream to over a million followers right now during the live show. We also have twobells.com that built their new online store, leoroundtable.com. You can get the mug that the chief's got in his hand right now, or, like, the shirt that I'm wearing. We got all kinds of cool gear. We don't charge anything extra for it. W- we don't make a dime off of that stuff, so we're just trying to get our gear out there.

[01:38] Speaker 1: So check that out, leoroundtable.com, online store, upper right corner. A shout-out to Bryan Burns for the Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com. We also have Ray Dietrich, formerlawman.com, and Travis Yates with lawofficer.com. Thanks to all those entities for helping make this show happen. And now, here's what we're gonna be talking about today, guys. I think we've got three main stories. The first one, FBI blocked the four holiday terror, or four holiday terror plots as the, uh, 2025 counterterrorism arrests top 700. So we've got that data. Uh, we've also got Trump fires back after his counterterrorism chief quits over the Iran conflict. That was interesting. And then travel apocalypse. Airlines are, man, they're in a world of hurt right now. And, uh, you know, Congress is, you know, they've got this, you know, partial shutdown going on, and we're gonna be talking a little bit about that. We've also got, uh, gavel falls on Texas Antifa cell.

[02:26] Speaker 1: We got nine convicted in the July 4th ICE facility siege, so that's good news. We've also got a, uh, a couple stories with video components, actually three total, but this first one, 2023 video released of a shootout between a murder suspect and Pierce County deputies. We'll be covering that one first. And then, uh, K9 catches a career criminal. I think that we're finally gonna have time to cover this one. It- it's in the crawlspace under a house, and the guy, the dog gets on him, and the guy just can't get away. And then we got a grand jury indicting a former US Marine Corps intelligence analyst for willfully transmitting national defense information to China. And, uh, disappointing. Worcester police officer is begging to escape a car as he's being, uh, he's being transported. Not really dragged, he's all the way in the car, but the fight is on between, uh, the female driver and the male passenger. And they're going for his gun, his OC pepper spray.

[03:19] Speaker 1: It's just a mess, so we'll be talking about that. So, um, let's start with the first one, Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com. And a lot of these topics are on the Free Press, and they actually did, I don't know if you guys saw it, they interviewed me on Monday, uh, produced a story on Tuesday about the launch, the relaunch of leoaffairs.ch, the law enforcement website. So, I, I liked that article, so if you haven't seen that yet, I put it on LinkedIn. Check it out. I think, Ralph, I think you commented on it, if I'm not mistaken. I never heard anything from Joel Schultz, so, I mean, disappointing. But, uh, I never, I never heard a word about that, so...

[03:51] Speaker 2: If my name's out there, I don't read it.

[03:52] Speaker 1: (laughs) All right. Yeah, you gotta, I'm gonna send you, I'm gonna send you a private link to that. Uh, but on this story, FBI blocked four holiday terror plots as the 2025 counterterrorism arrests, they top 700. Wow. So, FBI Director Kash Patel, of course, remember, this is the new FBI, announced on Monday that federal agents, uh, they disrupted four separate holiday terror plots back in December 2025. Uh, it's so impressive what the FBI, um, does behind the scenes. This is stuff that we normally don't even know about. According to, and there's, there's a lot more that we don't know about, granted. Uh, according to a statement posted on, or by Patel on X, formerly Twitter, the month began with a major operation on December the 12th. Agents arrested four members of the Turtle Island Liberation Front, and they're a far-left anti-government group, and they were planning a New Year's Eve bombing campaign targeting several businesses throughout Southern California. So, that's scary.

[04:44] Speaker 1: And then nine days later, December the 21st, the FBI and local authorities in Pennsylvania, um, they grabbed an individual who had reportedly been searching ISIS propaganda, and they stated that he intended to use the materials that he was getting to launch an explosive attack campaign. And then, December the 29th, an ISIS sympathizer arrested in Texas for allegedly attempting to provide bomb-making materials to a foreign terrorist organization. And then finally, New Year's Eve, multi-agency effort between New York and North Carolina led to the arrest of a man claiming to be an ISIS soldier, and authorities said that he planned to carry out a mass casualty attack that night, and, uh, New Year's Eve, the FBI, FBI thwarted four holiday terror plots in December of 2025 alone. And it says the year-end report also included broader data on the Bureau's 2025 operations.

[05:37] Speaker 1: It said over the course of the year, the FBI had 707 counterterrorism arrests, 640 successful disruptions of planned attacks. You gotta be, I'm gonna read that stat again. The, uh, number of counterterrorism arrests that the FBI had just for 2025 was 707, and then they disrupted 640 planned attacks. Crazy. Marking one of the most active periods for the agency's s- security divisions in recent years. Um-Gentlemen, I, I'm, I'm just... You know what? I, I'm shocked, but I'm, I'm also impressed, uh, that they were able to do this. But I'm shocked at the numbers. Wow. I don't know that it's gonna get, be getting any better, especially with what's going on, you know, with Iran right now and us and Israel. But, uh, any commentary on this one? Or we can move on to the next one if you guys don't, but Chief Schultz?

[06:23] Speaker 2: You guys have both been, uh, more involved in the intelligence, uh, community than, than I by far. Um, but I'm, I'm always, uh, curious how these things come to, uh, the attention of the, of the feds or, or, uh, uh, uh, the, uh, um, fusion centers and tho- those kind of things. Um, and I, and I think, you know, the old, uh, post-9/11 if you see something, say something is very important for civilians as well as local law enforcement, because they are often the key. They're, they're the spark that lights the candle that illuminates the investigation. And, uh, I don't know how this information came about. We also live in a society where we don't want the government to know everything that we do. We don't, we don't want them on our websites. We don't want them on our cell phones. We don't want them on our, uh, in our cars and all of that stuff is, is, uh, traceable.

[07:19] Speaker 2: And then there's, you know, billions of bits of information that people have to put together in the intelligence, uh, uh, community. So without massive totalitarian, uh, surveillance to be able to, to uncover some of these things and pick the scabs on some of these threats is pretty remarkable. And I go back to, um, you know, pre-9/11 when we had the, the Phoenix memo and, uh, uh, Agent, uh, Rally of the FBI, I think up in Minnesota, there were, uh, like, uh, nearly 100 different pieces of information that were going to the FBI headquarters saying, "We've got, um, people who are foreign born that are taking flight lessons and none of them want to know how to land. Uh, so maybe (laughs) we ought to look into this," and they were completely ignored. And then we had 9/11, which could have been... So a- as you animated, uh, Chip, we don't know how many tragedies have been prevented, um, but it's, it's fascinating, uh, to...

[08:19] Speaker 2: I think it should be of, of interest to every c- every citizen, uh, how many of these potential threats are being uncovered. And we know, of course, that only a percentage of, um, the real threats can be discovered and it's really up to, um, in large part it's up to the ordinary citizen and the ordinary police officer to bring these things to, uh, the attention of those that can really give more attention to them. I, I, I think I'm correct on that, Ralph. I saw you, I saw you nodding in, in agreement.

[08:49] Speaker 3: Um, yeah, I do and through... And I'll, I'll give, I'll go by numbers. Number one, I love the fact that the FBI has been given a, a much clearer, um, mission in how to engage these people, these criminals, these terrorists. Uh, I believe this administration has Kash Patel who's had a lot of history on that, number one. Number two, yes, Joel, you're 100% correct. The, um... And I know Chip will agree with this. Local agencies are truly the lifeblood for the FBI also. I mean, you know, we have... I know of LA County sheriffs, LAPD working out here and, you know, the, uh, the, uh, Joint Regional Intelligence Center out here and other, other places around the country are always sharing intel with task force offices, even with HIDTA, high-intensity drug trafficking areas are sharing intel, um, potentially could be, you know, re- regarding drug terrorism and stuff. And, and number three, I, I just, I think...

[09:46] Speaker 3: Uh, you mentioned something near the end, and I'm gonna show you a, a book that my professor wrote, and I have to say this because what you brought up, The Holy War and Home Front, he wrote this in 2003 after 9/11 and he had so much information. I communicate with him all the time and he had so much information he passed along with an FBI agent who retired, uh, FBI agent who retired about these Islamic extremism, extremists getting to universities, using our Bill of Rights against us, and being inserted into what you said, Joel, into training of airplanes and stuff. He, in his book, he lays so much out and so much was ignored without... Even before the book or even before 9/11 that him and an FBI agent would pass some information along and it just wasn't being accepted or received in a manner to really be proactive going after these people.

[10:40] Speaker 3: So, uh, you hit it right on the head and I really admire the 707 arrests, but 640-something disruptions because-

[10:48] Speaker 1: Wow.

[10:48] Speaker 3: ... that, that is the key.

[10:50] Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I know even at Tampa, you know, our, our intelligence... We had a pretty big, and they still do, pretty big intelligence unit, but we would infiltrate groups and we would get information. And you had these, uh, you know, you had these bad actors, whether it's, you know, white supremacists or whatever, we would infiltrate the groups. We would have people there. We would get intelligence. We would know what they're planning to do. Um, you know, when sometimes when people... We had, you know, the president or the VP coming into town, we had to provide dignitary protection for them, but we also had intel on who was going to be showing up and, and showing up where. When the, um, FBI contacted me and they had been kind of out of the game for a while in the Tampa area, they contacted, you know, my unit and me to get the information that they needed in order to do their job well.

[11:32] Speaker 1: And, uh, even though I didn't end up having really a great working relationship with the FBI, (laughs) that, uh, that's a whole nother story, um, but, uh-

[11:40] Speaker 2: Off the air.

[11:42] Speaker 3: Off the air with the... Hey, but, you know-

[11:44] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[11:44] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[11:44] Speaker 3: ... the o- the o- the other thing is before, we got 19 seconds, the other key-

[11:48] Speaker 1: No, no, no. We got... You got five seconds. We're going to commercial break, so guys-

[11:51] Speaker 2: All right.

[11:51] Speaker 1: ... stick with us. It's gonna get good. You can tell Ralph's all excited. Stick with us, we'll be right back.

[11:55] Speaker 4: (instrumental music plays) My family only cares about one thing, that I come home safe.

[12:02] Speaker 5: At Galls, every order begins with a promise. Made with purpose.Stitched for support. Back with pride. Answered by dedicated hands. Delivering the standard you have sworn to uphold. We serve more than the mission. We serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safe.

[12:55] Speaker 1: Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. The law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I'm your host. We're joined by Dr. Joel Schultz, retired police chief, and also, uh, we've got Chief Ralph Ornelas, also former commander with the LA County Sheriff's Department. And guys, we've been talking about, of course, the new FBI and all the stuff they did for us that we didn't know about back in, in, uh, 2025 last year. And, uh, and, you know, all these attacks that were gonna happen and they ended up not, thanks to the FBI. So I, I love, I love the new FBI under Kash Patel. If you guys are ready, um, we got another main topic here. You know, Chief Schultz, did you want to jump in here?

[13:30] Speaker 2: Well, I, it, you know, Ralph had, uh, during the break, I think it was kind of important as far as the sources of information about informants and, and, and paid informants, and I think it, uh, kind of ties into the next story if you're gonna go to the Kent, uh, to the, uh... Oh, no, you're, you're... Let's see, we've got a, uh-

[13:47] Speaker 1: We've got a journalism-

[13:48] Speaker 2: ... former Marine contractor later. So, um, yeah, a broad topic.

[13:53] Speaker 1: (laughs) All right. While you said Ralph, I'm assuming you mean Chief Ralph because I'm not allowed to, to, to call his name without the title in front of it. So, but I... Oh, you're a chief. So you know what? I want to let you guys know that my favorite chief is on the show today.

[14:08] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[14:11] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[14:11] Speaker 2: We'll talk about that off the air.

[14:13] Speaker 1: (laughs) All right. Tampa Free Press at tamperfp.com. Trump fires back at counterterrorism chief, quitting over Iran conflict. So, I had seen some news articles about the counterterrorism chief quitting. Didn't really say upfront what it was about. Then, I saw this article about Trump firing back. So, so, yeah, when you read these titles and stuff, and this one's not really a slanted article, but it, it made me question, but I, I will tell you, as I go through this article, I'll put a lot more of their verbiage into it, because I think that you guys will start to see a clear picture on maybe it was just a, um, just a, you know, a round peg in a square hole. Um, so President Trump dismissed the resignation of Joe Kent. He was the director of the National Counterterrorism Center, and they call it NCTC, and he was talking about this during a, a Oval Office press gaggle on Tuesday, and he labeled the former official, this Joe Kent guy, as weak on security.

[15:15] Speaker 1: And so I made a note, mental note of that because I, I was curious. You know, I, I, you know, Trump's a pretty sharp guy, but he's very direct and very blunt. And, you know, if you're around him, you're gonna know, you're gonna know what he, you know, how he feels and what he's thinking. Um, Kent, this guy that resigned from the, uh, being director of National Counterterrorism Center, he stepped down from his post earlier in the day. He cited his inability to support the ongoing military conflict with Iran. And I read that and I thought, "Well, how in the world could that even be?" I mean, for an educated... How could any educated person, knowing about the history... We were just talking about some of this stuff on the break. But, how could you... Anyhow, I, I, I want to hear his reasoning. You're gonna find out why. So the exchange began, uh, and this is between Trump and, and the reporter.

[15:57] Speaker 1: When the reporter asked Trump for his reaction to Kent's departure and his refusal to back the administration's strategy. And that is an issue. When you have people at a high level that are not backing your, your strategy, that is an issue. So the guy probably did the honorable thing by leaving anyhow. But Trump told reporters that while he previously viewed Kent as a nice guy, he felt his resignation, um, uh, the resignation letter, it proved that he was unfit for the role. And here's a quote saying, "When I read his statement, I reali- realized it's a good thing that he's out because he said that Iran was not a threat." (laughs) The president asserted that Iran was a threat recognized by every country, and he added that the only variable was whether nations actually wanted to do something about it or not. And so in Kent's resignation letter, he specifically argued that Iran posed no, quote, "immediate threat," unquote, to the United States. Baffles my mind.

[16:44] Speaker 1: He alleged that the administration's, quote, "America First platform had been compromised by a misinformation campaign led by high-ranking Ar- Israel officials and members of the American media." So now you'd want to... You know, I'm trying to read this with an open mind because thinking, okay, well, maybe there's some truth to some of this stuff. I'll go on. Kent, he's a retired US Army Special Forces veteran, which is impressive. He lost his wife, a Navy cryptologist, Shannon Kent, to a suicide bombing in Syria back in 2016, and he claimed that that conflict was the result of pressure from Israel. So he's, he's, he's staying on that theme. And here's another, here's a quote from him saying, "This echo chamber was used to deceive you into believing Iran posed an imminent threat to the United States." He compared the current situation to the lead-up to the Iraq War, calling the justification a lie and claiming that his wife died in a war that was manufactured by Israel. So it, it...

[17:38] Speaker 1: I have to admit, when I finished reading the article, I had to, you know... It left me thinking, this guy's got a beef, right or wrong, you know, with, with Israel, and it, it just seems to me it's unduly influencing his take on some stuff. But I, I'm curious what you guys think or... And, and if anyone here doesn't believe that there is a imminent threat from Iran if we let them proceed and do business as usual, but, uh, um... You, you know, I'll, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, Ralph, there... I, I know your mic's open. Do you remember the war against the Barbary, uh, pirates, the Barbary States and all that stuff? And there was a guy named Stephen Decatur and, um-I'll never forget this. He gave a toast in the war against the Barbary pirates and it was to the United States. He said, "To our country, may she always be right in her intercourses with foreign nations, but our country right or wrong." And, and, I, I, I bring that up because of what we're talking about.

[18:34] Speaker 1: Even if some of what he said was true, um, and we got drug into a thing with Iran for maybe under some false pretetches or whatever, which I don't, I don't believe happened, but if it did happen, being in the situation, you know, you, we need to put our country first. Whether we got into something for, uh, uh, you- for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, our country always should come first. So, um, I didn't mean for you to have to shut your mic off 'cause I went on that little roll, but, uh, but, but go ahead, Chief, Ralph. You got the floor.

[19:02] Speaker 3: Well, I, I, I, I went back to silent because I wanna be disciplined by you, you know, for being on too prematurely, uh, a premature exac- activation. Um, you know, so any- anyway, um, I said "activation".

[19:17] Speaker 1: Okay, you got me there. I was- I wasn't ready for that. Okay. I got nervous.

[19:20] Speaker 3: So-

[19:20] Speaker 1: All right. Go ahead.

[19:21] Speaker 3: So, so, you know, number one, everybody listening to this show and, and both you and Dr. Joel, look back to 1979 and then after '79, '83, the bombing of, uh, Marines in Beirut. Look at all the other terrorists in Yemen. Look at all the, all the other terrorist drug terrorism that they got money from drug terrorism from the cartels doing- paying for all their operations against the United States and Israel, right? You know, when I, uh, you know, I, I know this man Joe Kent must be a really smart man working intelligence and, you know, this, you know, in his career and stuff, and I'm sorry about his wife. But how could you say there's no eminent threat in the last almost 50 years, 47 years and with the, um, with this, you know, this, this regime in place? I mean, I don't know how they could say that.

[20:15] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm with you. I mean, you know, (laughs) if we... there's no doubt in my mind, long-range missile, nuclear warhead, that would have been coming for the continental United States and we didn't, if we wouldn't have done what we did. Hey, we're, uh, less than 10 seconds out. Next commercial break, stick with us. We'll be right back. All right, guys. Time to talk about Compliant Technologies at complianttechnologies.com and they are committed to providing non-lethal solutions to help officers gain the upper hand safely and rapidly in a humane, low-ontics manner utilizing their CD3 which stands for conductive distraction and de-escalation device technology. Now, their flagship product we all know by now is called The Glove. It's helped officers, well over 250,000 deployments and guess what? They've had no injuries or deaths. How's that for a stat? They've actually achieved non-lethal status in an arena that predominantly can only offer less lethal results.

[21:02] Speaker 1: And when it comes to weapons retention, transitioning to a sidearm or a conducted energy weapon, The Glove at complianttechnologies.com, they have virtually eliminated weapons confusion. So stay ahead of the game with Compliant Technologies and their revolutionary CD3 that hundreds of agencies have already turned to nationwide. And friends, take it from me, when it comes to safety, this is one of the most commonsense, hands-on solutions that's ever come along. Go to complianttechnologies.com today and tell them that Chip sent you. Again, that's complianttechnologies.com and watch those cool videos. You'll be glad that you did. Welcome back. Leo Round Table at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock and I'm your host. We're joined by Chief Ralph Ornellas from California and Chief Joel Schultz from Colorado. So thank you gentlemen. You know, uh, we have been talking about some stuff that's been going on in Iran and some other places.

[21:47] Speaker 1: Um, guys, uh, parting words on this before we move on to the, uh, to the air travel? Chief Schultz?

[21:52] Speaker 2: Well, you know, uh, R- Ralph referred to, uh, '78, '79 when, when, uh, uh, Iran was, was really problematic in, um... I, I think we need to go back to 1937 when Neville Chamberlain was Prime Minister of, uh, of Great Britain and-

[22:08] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[22:08] Speaker 2: ... decided not to do anything other than appease Hitler. Um, and of course, Hitler was, was crossing borders in tanks. Iran is not invading anybody but he's crossing borders by airspace and crossing borders by planting, uh, sleeper cells in, uh, countries all across, uh, all across the world. So I, I think the parallel between Hitler and, um, the leadership of Iran right now is, is, uh, is legitimate. And, uh, y- you know, all of us have had to deal with the question, is this an eminent threat in very personal spaces. Um, you don't, you don't wait for the first blow, the first shot, the first stab. You, you look at the, the pre-attack indicators and when they're high enough, you go ahead and take action. I think that's exactly what's happening, uh, with the, with the Iranian situation.

[23:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean... Well, g- go ahead, Ralph.

[23:04] Speaker 3: You know, you know, I, uh, I just wanted to add this though also. Victor David Hanson wrote a, a unbelievable op-ed about Iran and how so many of our country has given them too much latitude. Uh, leaders of our country have given them too much latitude. In-

[23:20] Speaker 2: And a, and a few billion dollars.

[23:22] Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[23:23] Speaker 3: That, that too. That too. But, you know, it's being revealed in his opinion, um, that, um, they're not as strong as, uh, everybody thinks. They, they really conned, based on Victor David Hanson, a lot of the Middle Eastern people through their surrogates because they did a lot of terrorist acts. So, but that military is not really as professional as they'd like to portray themselves to be. And I believe we're exposing them, uh, you know, very, in a, in a, in a very good strategic manner right now.

[23:54] Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I, I, uh, I get the big picture and, uh, I, I'm so happy that we're pounding them and, uh, and if there's some, if there's some gas prices that go up or, or things get a little... I don't think they're gonna get rough but if they... I mean, obviously we'll have some s- sleeper cells that will, that will do some stuff over here and some gas prices and stuff, but look at, look at what's at stake. It's just an easy, it's an easy trade-off. And at least Trump's... if, if, if... look, look. If Trump doesn't do it, there is no guarantee that the guy after him-... 'cause no one before him did it, that anyone after him is gonna be willin' to do it. And we don't know that we're gonna have a J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio in office when Trump's not around anymore. So, um, so yeah, I am just thrilled to death. And I don't have kids, but if I had kids, I'd feel even better.

[24:39] Speaker 3: You know, we did have, in the last week or so, four incidents where it was, you know, in, uh, Michigan, um, I've forgot all the different locations, where there was a terrorist. Look at New York City with those, those IEDs and thank God they didn't go off, you know.

[24:54] Speaker 1: Right.

[24:54] Speaker 3: I mean, so there's, we have to be diligent. We can't put our guard down. We gotta keep our mouthpiece in, our headgear on, our hands up at all times because they, listen, there's hatred out there.

[25:04] Speaker 1: So guys, let's jump into tampafreepress.com or tampafp.com and the dhs.gov. We've got this, they, it's titled, "Travel Apocalypse. Airline Titans Warn of Total Aviation Collapse as the TSA Paychecks Hit Zero." So, I'm gonna condense this 'cause we're, we're, we're short on time, uh, but Department of Homeland Security now, uh, they've been, uh, there's a letter that's been signed by the leaders of some major airlines, American, Delta, United, Southwest and others, and, and even, uh, the CEOs of FedEx and UPS and Alaska Air have, uh, have chimed in saying that, you know, "Look, something's gotta get done. And, you know, th- these guys, the, uh, TSA workers, the security, they cannot keep working without paychecks and they're asking for things, they're, they're asking for it not to be changed, not to be, uh, affected by the political climate or some d..." They want it to be funded whether the government decides to defund or not.

[25:55] Speaker 1: They've, they've got the Aviation Funding Solvency Act, the Aviation Funding Stability Act, the Keep America Flying Act, and all these things that would not be affected in a, in a situation like what we have today. And it said that we've got call-out spiking over 50% in Houston, 30% in New Orleans and Atlanta. We've got backups and long delays. We've got the highest single day airport call-out rate reaching 55% at Houston Hobby International Airport. And, uh, we've got 366 TSOs leaving the force, um, and each new TSO replacement requires four to six months of training and certification. So, yeah, uh, yeah, we've got 366 resignations. This is, um, this is some serious stuff. Um, any, uh, any quick comments on this, guys, before we go to a story with a, a video component? I just hope they get their act together. Chief Schultz?

[26:45] Speaker 2: It, it's just cruel and, and immoral and, and stupid. I, I don't understand. You don't, you know, we're, we, we paid for TSA with, uh, our ticket prices. They added a, a surcharge. So, to say that th- they can't use the money that we pay with our ticket prices to pay these guys who have kind of a crap job to begin with, it's, it's just, it's just beyond insane. I can't believe it.

[27:07] Speaker 1: Yeah. So, hopefully they'll get their act together and the, um, and this whole funding. And then, of course, people use the, uh, the funding terms as hot chicks. "Well, we'll, we're not gonna, you know, fund Department of Homeland Security, but we'll give funding to TSA or we'll give funding to another entity." And of course, um, you know, you don't, you can't get suckered into playing that game. So, um, anyhow, gotta have faith in our, in, in the, uh, in the Trump Administration and what they're doing. And, uh, I don't think he's been wrong yet that I can think of, so you just gotta have faith. And I really, I honestly believe, and I'll just say this before we move on, I, I view this as a, as a God thing. I, I don't think Trump on his own would've been able to do this.

[27:41] Speaker 1: I really believe with the attempted assassinations and trying to put him in jail and the lawsuits and everything has happened, no way that there is not a higher purpose with him being in office and, and being able to take care of all this business right now, e- especially with what's going on with Israel and, and protecting Israel, um, and, you know, this is all biblical. So, I'm, I'm excited to see what's going on and I, I truly believe that this is all a plan that Trump's fitting into. Trump's a, uh... I like Trump, but I don't think that he... You know, I just think that he's an imperfect man that's being used to do something in, in a, for a higher purpose, you know. So, I, I love reading the news every day and seeing what's going on and how people are coming after him, and it just doesn't matter. Just, he continues to get things done and it, it, it seems like he, right, he's, he's winning and, and things are always working out.

[28:29] Speaker 1: So, I, I, uh, even though our, our, our allies are not necessarily supporting us or coming to the table to help us out and we're doing all the work of this Iran thing and that's, that's just sad and embarrassing, and I hope there's repercussions from that, but we're gonna get it done. We're gonna, we're gonna kick ass and take names and, and I, and that's what's going, and that's what's going on. So, if you guys are ready, we've got another, uh, story. Well, I'm gonna skip over the update and I'm gonna go in and jump to a, a video story. This one was originally pretty complicated, I believe. It's, um, rumble.com. This is Butter.

[28:59] Speaker 1: A 2023 video released, uh, is, is showing a shootout between a murder suspect and Pierce County deputies

[29:05] Speaker 6: That would be awesome.

[29:08] Speaker 4: 10-24 is en route. Do a swab throw from here?

[29:28] Speaker 6: Yep. Good *******. White male, blue hat.

[29:46] Speaker 4: Tom, you okay?

[29:47] Speaker 6: No, I'm shot. I'm shot, man.

[29:55] Speaker 4: Stop firing. Stop firing. Get the rifle All right, I'll get it. That's okay Shots fired off. 95 Copy that. 95, could use a hand Taking it across Come on, get back. Tommy, get back to their car. Get back to their car right now. Oh, keep going, Tommy

[30:33] Speaker 6: Come on, I'm shot, man. Don't worry. I got you. Put the gun away. I got you, buddy. Take over, come here. Come on.

[30:40] Speaker 4: Shots fired. Shots fired. Shots fired.

[30:43] Speaker 6: I went down. ƒ (inaudible) Tell me where you're shot. My, my (censored) ass getting drove. Put your gun away. Put your gun away. Tyler, take this. Or-

[30:51] Speaker 7: Tyler.

[30:51] Speaker 6: No, I got it. I can hold it straight up. I'm good.

[30:53] Speaker 7: I got it.

[30:53] Speaker 1: So we're in Pierce County, Washington State. This, uh, man ends up being injured in exchange of gunfire with Pierce County deputies, and, um, he died of his wounds. His name is Cody Olsen, 45 years old, died from multiple gunshot wounds on December the 16th about four days after he was shot. Deputies were doing rou- routine pat- patrol on, uh, December the 12th. It's, it's, um, late at night, 11:24, and they do a traffic stop on Olsen. And this is what we always talk about. You know, you never know what you're gonna get with a traffic stop. So, he's suspected of driving under the influence, and he, he, uh, failed to stop, and now we've got a pursuit going. So, at about 11:28 PM, they report that, um, they had been fired upon and they actually returned fire. And this is during the chase. There were initial reports the deputies had minor injuries, but, but, uh, but were in stable condition.

[31:40] Speaker 1: The deputy, uh, that we're talking about here, the main deputy, thought that he was struck and immediately, um, was taken by ambulance, you know, to get checked out, and he did not have any serious injuries. Other deputies and incoming officers called on Olsen, the bad guy, to surrender. He was uncooperative, refused to leave his vehicle, and following a lengthy negotiation, deputies removed him from the car and began providing medical assistance, and firefighters took him to the local hospital, where he was listed in critical condition. We'll talk more about that in a second. While they're waiting for him to surrender, a second deputy ended up being shot. The bullet hit his handcuff pouch, bent one of the handcuffs, and he was uninjured from the bullet, but had minor injuries from glass, um, that was cut and, and, uh, you know, cut him in the face.

[32:24] Speaker 1: Now, when I, when we started watching this, just to put everybody in perspective, I, I advise you guys to start watching about 52 seconds in. Deputies were, uh, pursuing the suspected DUI suspect, and he ended up being a murder suspect. He was in a pickup truck, and we have both dash cams showing, um, the attempted pit maneuver. His truck stops. The first cruiser rolls up on the, on the, uh, on the, um, driver's door. Suspect produces a firearm at 1:28 and starts shooting through his open window, uh, at deputy's through, uh, through the, through the dep. Well, I'm sorry, the deputy returned fire through the, through the deputy's own windshield. And it looks like the deputy bailed from his cruiser thinking that he had been shot, which would go, fall in line with what we had just, you know, heard from a deputy thinking he was shot, but he was okay.

[33:07] Speaker 1: At the 1:44 mark, watching through a, a dash cam, we see the deputy bailing from his cruiser during the gunfire, and, um, at 10:05, tactical is brought in and extracts a suspect, who goes to the hospital and dies four days later. So, he was obviously hit by some of the gunfire from the deputies. One deputy went to the hospital thinking he'd been shot, of course, and handcuff pouch, but it was just amazing that the handcuff pouch saved the day with the other deputy. Uh, commentary on, on this wild shootout, guys. Well, we've got about 15 seconds, so start it off, and then we'll go to commercial and come back. Uh, Chief Ornellas, why don't you start us off on this one?

[33:44] Speaker 3: Hey, 15 seconds. Um, I like the fact that they pursued, but there is, it was, should have been a high-risk stop, not get so close. But I love the fact what they did as a team to save that one deputy. I'll get more into it.

[34:00] Speaker 1: All right. All right, thank you, guys. Commercial break, we'll be right back. All right, guys. We have a new GunLearn commercial. Let's, let's, let's see how this thing sounds. GunLearn, they are thrilled to announce an exciting new partnership with Smart Degree. It's certification as a firearms specialist by GunLearn.com, even over the last, last five years if you have one, is now worth college credits through Smarter Degrees universal partners. Now, whether you're pursuing a, a degree or simply looking to maximize the value of your education, the partnership opens up a new pathway to academic recognition for your firearm training. Now, GunLearn.com is the first and is the only company that offer a step-by-step program that takes you from your present knowledge level to become a safe, accurate, and competent certified firearms specialist. They provide citations from federal law and ATF rulings for every point taught to ensure accuracy.

[34:45] Speaker 1: And their training is supported and approved by major forens- forensic organizations, police departments, and law enforcement agencies across the US. Now, back since 1996, they've taught everything that LEOs need to know about firearms and ammunition to all factions of law enforcement. And you can start today with online training, or you can register to attend a live seminar. GunLearn.com. Welcome back. LEO Roundtable at LEORoundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I'm your host. We're joined by Chief Ralph Ornellas and Chief Joel Schultz. Thank you, gentlemen. We left off talking about a 2023 video release of a shootout between a murder suspect and Pierce County deputies, and that's in Pierce County, Washington State. And we're gonna go ahead and dissect that. Uh, a lot, a lot going on, and we had, uh, two cops that we thought that got hit during this, and one was saved by his handcuff case. Whoever wants to, uh, take this.

[35:31] Speaker 1: I know that we went to commercial break right when I finished up, so we've got the standoff between Chief Schultz and Chief Ornellas. I think Chief Ornellas is getting the, getting the, uh, short end of the stick here.

[35:40] Speaker 3: Yeah. (laughs)

[35:40] Speaker 1: No, you got to go.

[35:41] Speaker 3: Thanks, Dr. Joel. You know, you know, I, I look at it, and I, when I see it in just, like, 15 seconds, I, you know, I believe they... Did, did they know that they were going after a murder suspect, number one? Was that, was that radio was on the MDT? So, those are information I like to know about because if it was, I don't... I would have not had gotten, rammed the car. I would have stayed back more because God forbid. I mean, me, they're blessed they didn't get shot in that close proximity in that shooting, number one. But I think that the, the partner and the officer that got hit with a fragment, he did a great job helping his partner out. Um, I like the fact that technology was used. I like... I heard verbiage, "Get the rifle." I really love that they, they were communicating that stuff. Um, but I also, I also look at, um, ca- the vehicles, the vehicles can be a negative, a detriment when you stay in a vehicle in that po- that position. You're a target.Get away from the vehicle.

[36:40] Speaker 3: I know situations I assessed in, in LA, sometimes a vehicle could be a focal point, and sometimes you have to get away from the vehicle. But sometimes we get locked in because back in my day, the only communication we had was the hand- was the radio. We didn't have handhelds.

[36:54] Speaker 1: In the car.

[36:54] Speaker 3: In the car. But you get away from the car. You go into a wall, you go to a tree. So, I like the fact they dragged that partner away from another vehicle further distance away. Um, I love the drones. I love they inserted can- gas to it. Um, there was a lot of positives, but I think the initial, uh, ramming the car so close really bothers me a lot, and I, I want to impress upon young officers, sometimes distance is time to give you a proper response to a situation. Go ahead, Dr. Joel.

[37:26] Speaker 2: You know, I've commented before that a, a lot of what we're calling pit maneuvers are just rammings, um, because, uh, you know, in, in, in my training at, at FLETC, uh, the, the, to go to driver instructor school, um, it was a beautiful ballet. You know, you've got to have the... The car's like 35 miles an hour under that you're pursuing, and they're, uh, and they're turning away from you, so you've got a little bit of a spin to it, and the patrol car can just go on by. Um, but that requires a certain amount of friction in order to, uh, get the car off target. And so these guys, I'm not criticizing them, I... But, but, uh, uh, when, when you, when you try to do something that, that resembles a pit maneuver on grass or cow pasture like they are, it's not, it's not gonna... The physics of it just isn't the same, um, as when we train on asphalt. And that's true on gravel too, this is just my rural perspective.

[38:23] Speaker 2: So, I, I say this would be a great training opportunity for, for cops to watch. Uh, you've got, what do you do with an injured officer in a hot zone that EMS is not gonna approach until you've cleared it? What do you do with a barricaded suspect in a vehicle? And as I was making notes watching the video, I said, uh, you know, "Do you get a tactical vehicle in there? Do you get a drone? Do you get a K9? Do you use gas? Do you pro-" And then all these things unfolded, uh, o- over time. Um, so it, it was, uh... This guy was so tenacious, and we do have this moral question of, you know, is he not complying because he's dying and we need to f- to force our way in and, and rescue him so that we can keep him alive? Which is the ethical thing to do. Or is he just stalling and planning for an attack if we get up close? And we have to take this, y- you know, I think the balance is on the, uh, the survival side, uh, of, of the officers.

[39:25] Speaker 2: And, uh, you know, your question, uh, Ralph, about what did they know at the time that they started the pursuit? You know, maybe an impaired driver. Um, I, I might have even questioned the wisdom of, of, uh, pursuit, uh, without knowing that it was a murder suspect. But that's the nature of these pursuits, and it's why it's so... Uh, wh- when restrictive policies are in place and cops are like, "Okay, is, is this, uh, the, the teenager without his driver's license or somebody that's not supposed to have a car? Or is it a major felony and I'm gonna let somebody go?" We had a case years ago in the Kansas City area where an officer was gonna pull somebody over in the early morning for a taillight out. Uh, supervisor rightly called it off, um, and what they did not know until later was that there was a five-year-old stranger abduction victim inside that vehicle, uh, and their murder could have been prevented. So it's a...

[40:18] Speaker 2: There are a lot of tough calls in this, but, uh, you know, happy ending. And, uh, it's no surprise that you would think you have the, uh... That you've been shot when your windshield shatters and you get these injuries. I had a, a partner that, that experienced that and he was driving himself to the hospital thinking that they were gonna deal with gunshot wounds. Um, not, not that it's not a, a big deal anyway. And I'm, again, I'm always fascinated by, uh, (laughs) the number of rounds that get fired in these exchanges. Of course this was a long, long ordeal, um, but again, I just, I just go back to the, to the days that y- you all probably remember when you had, uh, 18 rounds total available to you in- instead of in your stack.

[41:04] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[41:05] Speaker 2: Um, and, uh, I just-

[41:06] Speaker 1: Speed loaders, yeah. (laughs)

[41:07] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[41:08] Speaker 1: Hell yeah.

[41:08] Speaker 2: Which were not very speedy.

[41:10] Speaker 1: No, they weren't. No.

[41:12] Speaker 2: So-

[41:12] Speaker 1: Okay, we got-

[41:13] Speaker 2: ... fun, fun, fun thing to watch.

[41:14] Speaker 1: Three and a half minutes, if you don't mind, I'm gonna jump into this last one, um, just so we can get one in. Rumble.com, this is Butter again. A Worcester police officer begged to escape a car as the passenger is grabbing for his gun and associated spray.

[41:26] Speaker 6: Hey, what are you doing? (grunting) Go, go, go. Stop? Yo. Yo. Yo. Stop the (censored) car. Stop the (censored) car. Stop the (censored) car. Hey, stop the car. You're gonna get shot. Shut the car. Go. Shut the car. Go, go, go, go. Hey, you're gonna get shot. (censored) Hey, I said stop. Hey. Let me get out, let me get out. Stop the car. Hey, let me get out. Stop. Let me get out. Stop. Get out. Go, go. Let me get out. Step on it. Let me get out. Go. Let me get out. Go. Go. Stop. Go. Sir, let me get out. Get off of him. Then get off of him. Get off of me, bro. What are you doing? Let me get out. He's hurting. (?) . Sal, let me get out. Get off him. Get off of me. Get off of me. What did I do, man? Oh, fuck. (grunting) Not the... I'm all right. Fuck. Stop. Stop.

[42:52] Speaker 3: Get off me! Oh!

[42:54] Speaker 6: Get off! Get off! Get off! Get off of him. (screaming) Get off the car!

[42:56] Speaker 3: Get off of him.

[42:57] Speaker 6: Get off.

[43:03] Speaker 3: Get off the car.

[43:04] Speaker 6: Why are you hitting me? Get off of him! I'm right, bro. Why? Put your hands behind your back. Put your hands behind your back! Hit me, bro. Put your hands behind your back! Oh, wow. Bro. Get off of me.

[43:27] Speaker 3: There we go. Thank you.

[43:28] Speaker 6: Put your hands behind your back!

[43:30] Speaker 3: Get off of me. All right, all right. All right. All right. We're going down (screaming) Get off of him! Get off of him

[43:39] Speaker 1: Um, so I'll... I'll... I'll go through this very quickly. Uh, we've got, uh, of course, this is in, uh, in Maine. So it started January 16th. We've got a guy named John Slater. He's well known to the police and he's... he's, um... he's up in the middle o- of- of Main Street and he's yelling and screaming at motorists. He's, like, impeding the flow of traffic. So when the cops roll up there, we got Worcester Police Officer, Alexander Marcollo. He gets there and he's got body cam going on and he's asking the driver, um, um, later identified as a female. So this is a- the- the- the bad guy that was in the middle of traffic yelling, he's on the passenger side inside this car. We got Sarah McMahon, uh, she's dri- in the driver's seat and he's saying, "What's going on? I've got a friend in the car," which is the suspect. Denied doing any drugs, but the officer can see tinfoil in open bags on the seat and... and... and, you know, and he calls her bluff.

[44:30] Speaker 1: And then, um, Slater came, uh, to the car, um, and got in, gave the officer a false name. And so the officer starts having dialogue with him and then it- it- it- it turns kind of a... it kind of goes south. The guy, um, starts to roll his window up and, uh... uh, you know, he's... and he starts to reach into the car. The guy sa- officer says, "Hey, I need you to get me an ID," and the officer goes in. Now there's a fight and the bad guy suspect starts telling the female, "Hey, you know, start moving, start..." So she starts driving. She hits a cop and they keep driving. And during the drive, when the body cam is on, our officer is fighting with the male suspect o- on the passenger side and the female is getting involved too. The male suspect starts going for his gun and for his OC pepper spray. It's, uh... i- i- it's just a mess.

[45:15] Speaker 1: Eventually, they get the car stopped and, uh, the officer that's inside, uh, that's a- that is injured gets everybody outside, but we now we got other officers. The fight's continuing and, uh, our officer, you can see, he's punching the bad guy and, uh, causing him to bleed and he's choking the bad guy it says. And then they end up handcuffing the bad guy, but it takes, like, two or three cops, you know, to get him handcuffed. The officer's got an injured hand and some other stuff going on. Uh, we got a minute and 15 seconds. Commentary, gentlemen. Chief Schultz?

[45:43] Speaker 2: Yeah. Five words. Generated low output voltage emitter.

[45:48] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[45:49] Speaker 2: That stands for GLOVE.

[45:51] Speaker 1: Yeah. I love it. That would have... that would have been over before it even got started, you're right-

[45:56] Speaker 2: Absolutely.

[45:56] Speaker 1: ... with the glove. Yeah.

[45:57] Speaker 3: I thought about that too. You're right. I mean, I would like to know how that would have, you know, eliminated him getting back into the car once he was out. The other thing is this. I- I- I gotta tell you, I- I always critique everything from a training perspective. Once somebody's out of the car, I never allow anybody, or even when I train, never let anybody get back into a car. I don't care. You got... You got to be a certain... I don't care if I would grab the back of his head with the hair. You cro- you control the head, you control the body. I would have yanked him back out more forcefully in the beginning before he got back in that car. The other thing is this. The partner, before they took off, if I was his partner, I would have gone around the pa- the driver's side. I would have smashed the window out or even reached in and grabbed that lady and took her out.

[46:41] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[46:43] Speaker 1: Good commentary, gentlemen. Thank you guys so much. Been another great show. Thank you so much, uh, Chief Joel Schultz and Chief Ralph Ronellis. And I do usually take this time to talk about The Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org. Lieutenant Randy Sutton's 501 (c) (3) helping cops out on the world of hurt that are suffering from things like PTSD and other issues. If you guys haven't checked them out lately, go to thewoundedblue.org and... and check them out. Um, guys, are there any, uh... any, uh, final words? I'm gonna... Give me 15 seconds, you know, to go through the advertisers. But we got 30 seconds here and I don't know if Chief Schultz has any new books out or whether, uh, Chief Ralph is writing a book that he wants to get out there.

[47:20] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[47:21] Speaker 2: Well, uh, if you... uh, I'll write a book for you if you will email me or go to my blog spot. But, uh, I... I... I just, you know, for the public, remember we're at war, um, and, uh, keep your eyes open, head on a swivel. Standard advice.

[47:35] Speaker 1: Good advice. And, of course, uh, you guys can look all these guys up on, on LinkedIn as well. But thanks to golus.com, compliantetechnologies.com, gunlearn.com, mymedicare.live, safeguardsrecruiting.com and twogolus.com. Don't forget the Golus discount code, REDIO15, to get 15% off. We'll see you guys... We have shows, uh, the next two days and we're back live on Monday. That'll be 12 o'clock noon Eastern.

[47:59] Speaker 1: (rock music plays)