[00:13] Speaker 1: Welcome to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip The Block, and I'm your host. And we're a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. Let me introduce the crew. And guys, if you don't mind waiting for the video portion of our show, he's back, Sheriff Mark Crider, all the way from Walla Walla County in Washington State. So, thanks for being back on the show, Sheriff. We've also got Captain Brett Bartlett, the founder of Exumber Defense Solutions at exumberdefense.com, and he wanted me to say something. Uh, 32 years of exemplary law enforcement experience. And, uh, and then we've got, uh, our- our- our- what we've got our- our bad dude on the show, man. This guy is ... It- it's kind of like having, uh, Scott Steier, you know, Green- Green Beret, Delta Force. We have our own Dan Delacruz.

[00:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the guy that put the glove on me when I was at SHOT Show, made me scream like a little girl. So, uh, anyhow, welcome to the show. He's with Complient Technologies, our satellite sponsor, so thanks for being back on the show, Dan. And, uh, we've got some great topics. But first, our sponsors, guys. Our title sponsor, Galls at galls.com, and Dan's company, Complient Technologies, our satellite sponsor at complianttechnologies.com, where we have gunlearn.com, we have mymedicare.live, safeguardrecruiting.com. Thanks to them, we're streaming with over a million followers right now on social media during the live show. And finally, twobells.com. They built their new online store at leoroundtable.com. Go to our website. You can get cool shirts, our cool gear. Uh, I got a- I got a picture of the new coffee mug. This is not the new one, but the new one is bigger and better, and it's got a logo on both sides.

[01:38] Speaker 1: So whether you're left or right-handed, whatever hand you hold the mug in, uh, the logo's gonna show. It's, uh ... yeah, they're- they're- they're now available, and, uh, I've got one being sent to me right now. So thanks to the sponsors. Also, a shout-out to Brian Burns for the Tampa Free Press for carrying our content, and, uh, and Ray Dietrich from ar-lawman.com, and finally, Travis Yates with lawofficer.com. Thanks to all those entities for helping make this show happen. And now, here is what we're gonna be talking about today. We have phone company executives reveal why they complied with the Jack Smith's secret subpoenas. Man, I wanted to know. And then we've got This Is Florida, Not Minnesota, so the Jacksonville mayor is in a legal hotspot, um, after undermining ICE. And you will get to hear about that. You know, the article never said her name. I had to, uh, I had to look it up to find out who was the, uh, the mayor of Jacksonville.

[02:23] Speaker 1: And then, legal immigrant, uh, restaurant owner, and I love this, uh, it makes me want to go to Arizona. Uh, the owner of this restaurant triggers the libs. That alone makes me want to go, but then it gets better. He's giving free meals to ICE agents. In- incredible. And then we've got, uh, Massachusetts State Police. There was a recruit death, unfortunately, but it leads to the indictments of the academy staff. There's a pucker factor. Then Phoenix police officers fatally shoot an unarmed man, later identified, uh, or determined to be the wrong suspect. I found that video very confusing. And, uh, and then Tashan Rogers fired a shot at a plainclothes, uh, plainclothes police officers before being fatally shot by the officers. And then drone technology. (laughs) I put this one in for Brett. Drone technology helps Stockton police catch the serial defector, or no, wait a minute, that's not defector, it's defecator. The serial defecator using the park as a public bathroom. (laughs) Wow.

[03:21] Speaker 1: All right, Brett, that's for you. I expect some ... I- I expect, um, some, uh, some expert testimony on that one, Brett. Uh, also, and, uh ... yeah, I know. Uh, also, let's see what we've got. We've got another one here. It is, uh, I guess finally, a fallen officer fatally shoot a knife-wielding suspect after two people end up being stabbed, and NYPD body cam video shows a cop shooting a mentally ill Queens man who ends up charging at him with a knife. So there you go. So if you guys are ready, let's go on and start this thing off with one of ... our first of three main topics. dailycaller.com, yeah, I got an alert, uh, yeah, well, I guess it was the Daily Mail. I get an alert on my- on my cell phone, the- the- the Daily Wire I subscribe to, what, a year or two ago? I just had $437 on my debit card charge, so I took care of that, Brett, don't worry. But phone company executives reveal why they complied with Jack Smith secret subpoenas. I wanted to know too. Now we're gonna know.

[04:11] Speaker 1: Three phone company executives, they testified on Tuesday about, uh, why they supplied Republican members of Congress's records. So they didn't give it to the Republicans, they- they, uh, they complied with Biden's DOJ, and this was in response to the former special Council Jack Smith secret subpoenas. I say secret because the members of Congress that he was getting information on, he didn't want them finding out about it. The companies received at least 84 subpoenas, if you can believe that, during the Arctic Frost probe. That was Jack Smith's case against President Donald Trump, including at least 10 associated with, uh, 20 current or former Republican members according to the Senate judiciary chair Chuck Grassley. And here's a quote saying that, "We- we have put new processes in place to increase transparency to members whose information is sought by law enforcement." And that's Chris Miller, Senior Vice President and General Counsel of Verizon. That's what he told the committee.

[05:07] Speaker 1: "We have been, uh, working closely with Congress and the administration for the past few months to address the important issues raised by the committee's inquiry," and then Smith's subpoena sought all ... well, they still told records which includes logs of messages and calls, their duration, and the number contacted. Now, it says it did not seek the- the- the actual content of the communications, although it says that they included the logs of the messages. But you better believe that if they got the right hitch, they would have asked for the messages too. Um, it goes on to say, "The companies do not always know that the requested accounts belong to members of Congress. When subpoena analysts receive a- a valid legal demand, they say that they were not trained to do an inquiry into the associated subscribers." So they didn't vet the information according to Miller. Now, here's the interesting thing. Um, I've- I- I'm gonna find out what you ...

[05:57] Speaker 1: I have AT&T, and I actually have AT&T FirstNet. Verizon and T-Mobile, they both complied with the subpoenas, and AT&T...My company questioned a subpoena for Republican Texas Senator Ted Cruz's records. AT&T did produce the records though for former Republican House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, though. And it, it goes on to say that after responding to several, they, meaning AT&T, their legal center, they actually reached out to lawyers to discuss what was becoming a series of requests. And that's according to David, uh, McAtee, with, uh, senior executive with AT&T. And Cruz's account was easier to identify because they were using, uh, his campaign account, not his personal one. It's just scary. A- and then in their database of customers, there's over 2,000 Kevin McCarthy's, so they didn't immediately know that it was him.

[06:43] Speaker 1: In response to the request for Cruz's records, a lawyer asked Smith's team if a subpoena would implicate constitutional protections and the company did not receive a response. Gee, I wonder why. And then before green-lighting subpoenas, former head of the Department of Justice's Public Integrity Section, John Keller, warned prosecutors that there may be some litigation risk involving all this stuff. It goes on and on, uh, but you guys get the general idea. And these companies were, were ... I mean, they were, what? 80, 84 subpoenas. So they were just being overwhelmed with subpoenas. Let me just throw this last one out 'cause Senator Lindsey Graham weighed in saying, "You failed me. You failed to honor the contract protecting all of us." And he was pointing that out about Verizon. And, uh, then we've got Senator Marsha Blackburn, House Judiciary Committee, and asking people that are flight risks, and Senator Dick Durbin. It, it goes on and on and on.

[07:31] Speaker 1: Guys, who wants to weigh in on this first? We got about four and a half minutes before we take our first commercial break. Sheriff Mark Crider.

[07:37] Speaker 2: Since I've served a lot of these during my career, uh, as an FBI agent, I, I p- I have a little bit different take on this. I, I was a little bit appalled that the congressmen were yelling and screaming. Because they're congressman, they're immune from legal process. This was legal process. What I would be more concerned about, as an American citizen, is I would like to read the probable cause for why these were issued, and I would like to go back to the judge and find out why these were issued. I served tons of subpoenas in which we ask for a, a 60, 90, 120-day non-disclosure because of the sensitive nature of the investigation. That's not unusual. But what is the probable cause that you're subpoenaing these phone records for and what judge signed off on it? Because, uh, (laughs) i- if it states in the, in the probable cause statement that they're a flight risk, you, you have to name the individual. And I don't know how you justify a congressman as a flight risk.

[08:48] Speaker 2: That's a, that's absurd. So, more concerning to me is the judicial review on these, these legal processes that are, are done every single day across the United States in bonafide investigations done by the feds. So, that's what should, that's what should be concerning to the American citizens.

[09:12] Speaker 1: Agreed. All right, Brett.

[09:14] Speaker 3: I absolutely agree. I was reading that article and I thought-

[09:16] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[09:16] Speaker 3: ... "Why are these people mad at the phone c-" They just responded to what appeared to be a legal subpoena issu- you know, signed off by a judge and done the right way. I w- if I w- for Verizon, I'd stand up at here and go, "Don't yell at us. Yell at that knucklehead judge or that knucklehead prosecutor." We're just, you know, we have no ability to parse through a subpoena and go, "Well, this looks suspicious." Just do your job and then start yelling at the, at the, at the, at the prosecutor who, who, uh, just did it for spite.

[09:49] Speaker 1: Yeah. Good. All good points, guys. Well, uh, if you guys are ready, we'll hit our next one then. Uh, we'll watch this in case there's any more, you know. This, this, this arctic, arctic frost has not gone away yet. This next one here is a main, is our second of three main stories, rvmnews.com. Uh, this is Florida, not Minnesota. Jacksonville mayor in legal hot water after undermining ICE. Now, I still don't know why they never mention her name in the article and I'll, I'll, I'll get to that in a second. But, um, that, I found that intriguing. Florida Attorney General James Uthmeier said that his office is reviewing whether a Jacksonville city official unlawfully, uh, interfered with federal immigration enforcement after allegedly alerting the public to the locations that ICE was doing operations at. The comments come amid allegations that information about ICE activity was publicly shared, potentially disrupting law enforcement efforts.

[10:40] Speaker 1: Now, the city's mayor, the, she's denied any wrongdoing actually happened, uh, but our AG in Florida said the matter raises c- serious concerns under Florida law. And here's a quote saying that, "We have a situation here where a city official was out there publicly alerting people to ICE locations, interfering with immigration enforcement efforts." I can see why that would be (laughs) something to be concerned about. Uthmeier s- uh, he emphasized that Florida law requires cooperation, requires it, and, uh, this is with federal law enforcement. It does not give local officials the ability to have discretion, uh, to undermine immigration enforcement or decide whether they not, they want to adhere to the law. And finally, he says, and this is beautiful, "This is the state of Florida.

[11:21] Speaker 1: It is not Minnesota." Now, while the mayor of Jacksonville, and I've, I'm showing Mayor Donna Deegan as the mayor, um, has stated that no laws were violated, um, our AG said that state officials disagree with that assessment and they're evaluating whether there needs to be further action taken against her. He indicated, uh, that the review will focus on whether the conduct involved coordination beyond a single individual. So whether she was coordinating with other officials that work, um, for the city or other employees. Now look, we got a commercial break sneaking up on us, guys. So look, stick with us. We'll be right back.

[11:56] Speaker 2: (instrumental music plays) My family only cares about one thing: that I come home safe.

[12:03] Speaker 4: At Gull's, every order begins with a promise. Made with purpose.Stitched for support. Back with pride. Answered by dedicated hands. Delivering the standard you have sworn to uphold. We serve more than the mission. We serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safe.

[12:56] Speaker 1: Welcome back. LEAR Round Table at learroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block, and I'm your host. We're joined by Sheriff Mark Krier from Walla Walla County in Washington State, Captain Bret Bartlett from the Tampa Police Department, and also Dan Delacruz from Compliant Technologies with the glove. We just got done talking about the Jacksonville mayor in Florida that's being accused of interfering with ICE operations by disclosing the location of the, of the, uh, operations that are going on through the, uh, federal agency. And I know the Florida attorney general, Neumayer, is, uh, is not happy about that. Commentary on that, Dan Delacruz.

[13:31] Speaker 5: Uh, I would just think at this point with everything that's gone on recently that these officials, these state officials, government officials that are there for the people, would realize that they're putting people in harm's way. I mean, it's just becoming obvious. Uh, no matter what their beliefs are, no matter what they're thinking, why go out of your way to put somebody in harm's way? Th- none of these things are ending well or going well. Uh, it just seems... That seems... I would hold them highly responsible for that. That, that, they're, they're advocating putting people in harm's way.

[14:09] Speaker 5: It's just-

[14:09] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[14:09] Speaker 5: ... crazy.

[14:10] Speaker 1: On- online says that she's a Democratic mayor. I don't know that that's any surprise or shock, but, uh, but I will tell you one thing. With, with ICE operations, I- I'm hoping that sooner than later, we see them using the glove because it... that's, that's, that's an easy, that's an easy one. Every, every ICE officer, border patrol guy that's going hands-on should have, should have that tool. Right?

[14:34] Speaker 5: Yeah. I agree.

[14:36] Speaker 1: Well, yeah.

[14:39] Speaker 3: Y- I'd love to see that, Chip, 'cause they... the newspaper accounts would say, "A crowd of 30 people threw themselves to the ground-"

[14:48] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[14:48] Speaker 3: "... when touched by the, when touched by the ICE off-" It's, it's a minor miracle they threw themselves to the ground or, or launched themselves through the car window. Well, I tell you, Chip, this whole, this whole opposing ICE by these elected officials is not gonna change until one of them gets cuffs put on them and put in jail. Now, I don't know what the federal statute is for that, but in Florida, it would be opposing a police officer. You're opposing my lawful authority by doing or taking some action to, to stop me. They need, th- one of them needs to go to jail.

[15:20] Speaker 1: Um, I'm waiting for that to happen, and I'm, I'm, I'm with you. And you know what? I, I, I still have an old pair of handcuffs that I will volunteer to, uh, to donate as long as they're used on, on the, uh, on the first arrest (laughs) -

[15:32] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[15:32] Speaker 1: ... they get, they get arrested for that. Sheriff Krier.

[15:36] Speaker 2: (clears throat) Well, uh, I, I live in the, uh, Socialist Republic of Washington State, and I, I can tell you that if you look at this from an outside perspective, uh, the whole thing is set up to sow chaos, right? In Washington, we have the Keep Washington Working Act, which basically prohibits local law enforcement from cooperating or assisting, or whatever you want to call it, with ICE. So instead of the safe and secure transfer of prisoners inside the county jails, we are now forcing our federal counterparts to go out into th- the neighborhoods and conduct these arrests out in the public, which all four of us know it's much safer to do that in a jail. Number one, you're, you're only getting the people that are here illegally and have committed a state crime as well, because we don't put illegal immigrants in, in county jails for immigration violations. We put them for, in jail for violations of state law.

[16:52] Speaker 2: So if you would allow immigration into the jails, you would get the people that we're really after, and you would have no chaos because nobody can protest in there. It's safer for the officers. It's safer for the suspects. It's safer for the community. So, um, y- you have to step back and look at this and think, these public officials want the chaos that we're seeing on the streets of Minneapolis to happen, um, and that's just evil.

[17:24] Speaker 1: You know, did you see? I know yesterday, we covered that. One of the, uh, the sheriff, I think it was in, uh, in, you know, St. Paul, Minneapolis, they're right next to each other, but the sheriff in the St. Paul area actually sent his deputies in to grab, I think, it was, like, around 42 protestors that were protesting against a federal building. So not local, not state, a federal building. The sheriff goes in and he, and he, uh, and he takes care of business. Uh, but, you know, Tom Homan, uh, had just gone on in the last week or so when he said that he made a deal with Tim Waltz and Jacob Frey, the governor and the mayor respectively, uh, even though they were denying it. They cut a deal with Tom Homan. Tom Homan said, "Yeah, I've got sheriffs now and local that are letting us into the jails to grab people, and that's why we're pulling 600 agents out and leaving 2,000 in, and, and it's just a beautiful thing." And I, and I, I have to believe that this......

[18:14] Speaker 1: sheriff is liking that new relationship and he, and he said, "I'm gonna do you one better. I'm gonna go and I'm gonna protect that federal building." (laughs) I mean, I love it. It must- the governor must be pull- pulling his hair out right now. No offense, Brent.

[18:28] Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, speaking of offense, I think the sheriff was right. The ICE issue, the immigration issue is not- is not imp- important to the opposition. It's simply a convenient point of, uh, of and if it could've been anything else-

[18:46] Speaker 1: But your audio's not good enough.

[18:47] Speaker 3: ... it could've been any other topic, but this was hot.

[18:47] Speaker 1: We're gonna go to the main- to the next main story anyhow. So, our main three here, RVMNews.com, legal immigrant, res- restaurant owner triggers libs by giving free meals to ICE agents. So, a restaurant owner in South Arizona is drawing national attention after announcing that Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, or ICE, and other federal law enforcement officers will receive free meals at his business. Now, George Rivas, he's the owner of Sammy's Mexican Grill in Catalina, Arizona, and he's offering the meals as a gesture of respect and support for law enforcement. So you gotta love that. Now Rivas, he's a Salvadorian immigrant. He came to the United States legally, and his decision is rooted in his belief in the rule of law and appreciation for those that are tasked with enforcing it.

[19:31] Speaker 1: Now, the announcement gained widespread attention after Rivas made the offer, and this was done during an interview that was later translated into English, but it circulated on social media and it- it went viral, and now there's all kinds of reactions all over the political spectrum. And Rivas said that everyone who works for ICE, all federal agents, not just ICE but all federal agents, can come to Sammy's Mexican Grill. Here, they will be treated with respect and as they deserve. Wow. And he emphasized that the support extends to all federal, uh, enforcement officers, not just ICE, like I said earlier. He said his background as a legal immigrant, it shaped his perspective and motivated him to publicly support immigration enforcement. And you gotta love that. Uh, he says, "I know firsthand what it means to come here the right way." The public response to his announcement has been mixed. Some critics on social media, they're calling for a boycott, a course of the restaurant.

[20:22] Speaker 1: And Rivas addressed the backlash by accusing critics of some stuff. We're gonna cover that in a second, guys. I got another commercial break sneaking up on us, so stick with us. We'll be right back. All right, guys. Comply Technologies at ComplyTechnologies.com, they're committed to providing non-lethal solutions to help officers gain the upper hand safely and rapidly in a humane, low optics manner, utilizing what they call their CD3, which stands for conductive distraction and de-escalation technology. Now, their flagship product, we all know by now, is called the glove. It's helped officers tens of thousands of times with no injuries, and you heard that correctly. I said no injuries. The glove has actually achieved non-lethal status in an arena that predominantly can only offer less lethal results.

[20:59] Speaker 1: And when it comes to weapons retention, transitioning to a sidearm or conducted energy web- uh, weapon, the glove at ComplyTechnologies.com, they have virtually eliminated weapons confusion. And I said tens of thousands of times, I actually think they're up to over 250,000 deployments with no injuries or deaths. I mean, that's just, that's just simply amazing. So, when it comes to safety, you can trust the glove of Comply Technologies, and they have virtually eliminated weapons confusion. So take it from me, when it, when it comes to safety, this is one of the most common sense, hands-on solutions that's ever come along. Go to the ComplyTechnologies.com today. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at LeoRoundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host, and we're joined by Sheriff Mark Crider, former FBI.

[21:38] Speaker 1: And, uh, we had, uh, two other panelists that are no longer with us for the, for the second half of the show, and so, uh, Sheriff Crider is gonna carry the weight of the rest of the show for us. And we, we left off talking about, um, our third main story. Uh, it's a beautiful one, though. I- a legal immigrant restaurant, this owner is triggering libs by giving away free meals to ICE agents. And, you know, they just must be beside themselves. And so, our, uh, our immigrant, his name is George Rivas, he's a Salvadorian, uh, immigrant. Came over here illegally and it's just killing him that people, uh, are coming over here illegally, and he supports ICE in getting rid of them. He emphasized that his support extends to all federal officers, and he's offered them free meals at his restaurant, and he's gonna treat them with respect. And, um, I, uh, I believe... I- I don't want to just throw that in there. Let me see.

[22:24] Speaker 1: Everyone who works for ICE, all federal agents can come to Sammy's Mexican Grill. They'll be treated with respect as they deserve. So, okay, I said free meals, and I- maybe, maybe, maybe it was just with respect. Um, but I thought I had read that somewhere else. And, uh, it goes, he says he knows firsthand, um, to come here the right way and not the, you know, skip ahead of the line illegally. The public response, he's been getting mixed, but some people want to call for boycotts. And, uh, and then we've got other people, um, that want to pledge their support and they didn't want to go, um, to his restaurant just because of him and the way he's supporting ICE. He addressed the backlash by accusing critics of suffering from Trump derangement syndrome, and, uh, he said at the same time the restaurant has received support from customers planning to visit Sammy's Mexican Grill, remember that name, specifically, uh, because of his stance. So, there you go, guys.

[23:12] Speaker 1: Sammy's Mexican, uh, Grill in Arizona, um, support that guy. Um, Sheriff, um, I- I know you're over in Washington state, but, uh, it almost makes me want to make the drive to Arizona.

[23:24] Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, you know, it- it's- it's ridiculous that we're sowing... I'm sure in your career, uh, you spent a lot of time trying to build relationships with other agencies, especially, uh, federal agencies, because they- they can bring a lot of resources to bear, as we're seeing in the, uh, the Guthrie kidnapping. Uh, the feds can come in and they have tons of resources, especially for small communities like mine. And, um, this- these policies and laws that are being passed in some of the, uh, Democratic states that are- are driving wedges between state, local, and federal agencies, we should be cooperating and pooling our resources. Instead, we're trying to push apart and get no cooperation whatsoever between the different agencies, and it's just, uh, it's- it's not good for public safety. It does not make our citizens safer.

[24:20] Speaker 1: I totally agree. An- and, and I was right, he was offering free meals. I, I, I, I went back and re-read the article and, and he was offering free. You know, um, um, y- we've covered on the show, we've been bouncing back and forth on that one story, you know, Gavin Newsom signed that new law i- in, in California about the, uh, the no mask, and basically trying to enforce it against the feds, saying that, well, you know, you, you know, that saying that the locals, the local PD and sheriff's office can go ahead and, uh, and, and charge them for not, you know, if they wear a mask. And it's funny that the LAPD police chief, I think McDonald is his name, uh, came out and said, "We're not enforcing that." And then quickly followed by LA County Sheriff's Office, the sheriff said that, "We're not gonna do it either," and so then they announced, through Gavin Newsom's office, that that's okay, we'll charge them civilly.

[25:12] Speaker 1: And they're telling them they still want the general public to be filming and taking pictures of ICE agents and the feds doing their jobs, because if they're not, if they are masked up, now they're gonna hit them civilly, and it's the civil fines start at $10,000 in offense, if you can believe that. And now we have a federal judge that just said that, you know what? That's, that's illegal. You can't do that. You can't target ICE agents. So, so now it's, now it's o- now it's off the table again, unless, I g- I guess maybe unless they rework the law to, uh, to target everybody instead of just the feds. But, uh, yeah, that's the mentality over there in California right now, unfortunately.

[25:51] Speaker 2: Well, we have the same thing being passed in the, uh, legislature in Washington State, uh, it's a masking thing, and, you know, it's, I- I'm gonna get on my soapbox here for a minute. Washington State Legislature is trying to pass requirements, uh, to be able to run for sheriff, uh, and these requirements will be overseen by a unelected commission run by the governor, and, you know, uh, y- you're trying to put requirements on law enforcement, but yet I, I guarantee you that half the legislature couldn't pass a basic civics class. Um, we've never heard of the supremacy clause? Y- local jurisdictions do not have the right to try and implement anything on the federal government. That, that's a basic tenet of our, y- you know, of our Constitution. So, it, it just amazes me that we're gonna waste my taxpayer dollars on litigation for laws that are passed by legislatures that don't understand basic civics.

[26:59] Speaker 1: I guess they'll learn the hard way at our, at our expense. That is, that is sad. Um, but thanks for keeping us up to speed on that, um, on that movement. We'll just call it that. Th- (laughs) wow. Um, we've got our, we've, so we're, we're done with our main stories, but we have an update story that I'd like to cover real quick. A Massachusetts State Police recruit death leads to indictments of the academy staff. This is at lawofficer.com. Of course, I was a, uh, well, we both were trainers, uh, Sheriff, and, uh, we have a, we have a training mentality and training history whi- which I think is extremely important, so when I, when I hear of things like this, I get very inquisitive an- and concerned. So we're in Boston, Massachusetts on this one. The death of a Massachusetts State Police recruit, Enrique Del, uh, Delgado Garcia. It's led to indictments against a supervisor and three instructors assigned to the state police academy's defensive tactics unit.

[27:49] Speaker 1: And I was a DT instructor, um, so investigators say that the 25-year-old recruit, he died after suffering serious head injuries during a boxing-based training that they allege was unsafe and not properly stopped. Delgado Garcia died at a hospital on September the 13th, 2024, which is about, what, almost a year and a half ago, one day after he became unresponsive during a defensive tactics exercise, and they were in a boxing ring, he s- and, uh, he suffered what officials described as a medical crisis, according to the Associated Press. Now, four people have been indicted in reference to this. So we have the supervisor, uh, I'm assuming it's Sergeant Jennifer Penton, and then we have Troopers Edwin Rodriguez, uh, David Mo- Montanez, and Casey Lamonte.

[28:32] Speaker 1: Um, and, uh, the investigator appointed by the Massachusetts Attorney General, um, gave this information out to multiple outlets, and investigators said the defendants are charged with involuntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily injury, uh, to a person participating in a training program involving physical exercise. Penton also faces a perjury charge tied to her grand jury testimony, which would not be cool. Uh, the men and women indicted are not expected to be arrested, uh, but their arraignments are scheduled at a later date. Wow. So, I'm surprised, Sheriff.

[29:05] Speaker 2: Well, I, I wouldn't say that I'm surprised. Um, a- any time that you have any kind of training, um, incident, let alone a death, there should be a thorough and rigorous review of your policies and procedures to see what was going on, um, based on the limited knowledge that you just, uh, the limited information that you just put out, my guess is that, uh, as we both know, it's not the actual incident that causes people to get either, um, charged or indicted, it's the cover-up afterwards, um, and there should be a thorough and transparent review because we don't want this to happen again, and was it something that we were doing in the training that we shouldn't have been doing or, you know, d- was there a medical condition that wasn't caught? So, um, we, we should let that play out, and if there were problems, people should be held accountable.

[30:06] Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, um, you're right, things can happen. I mean, look, I've had recruits, um, doing the fitness training, I've had them drop out, have seizures, didn't know they were having a, you know, an epileptic seizure, a- and sometimes that can be brought on by rigorous exercise and stuff, and I mean, you, you know, we've, we've seen it all, right? And you've got some guys who have maybe a heart issue and, and you don't know it until they're, they're really pushed, uh, but this sounds like it was something...... a lot, (laughs) a lot, a lot more of that, and then the, then the potential cover-up or lying during an investigation, that will... You know, you gotta... You know, your, your job, you've gotta really screw up really bad to lose your job in law enforcement. And you can do a lot of things, but lying is not one of them, so, um, um... So I, I can't wait to hear the details of this, of what happened. And you know what? I believe in the system.

[30:48] Speaker 1: If we have bad cops, bad trainers, bad supervisors, even in an academy setting, and they get yanked and replaced, then, then, um, then, then-

[30:56] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[30:56] Speaker 1: That's why I believe in the system. I love identifying people that are bad. There's not many of them, but, but w- the rare instance where that happens, the system, I believe, works, and I get them, get them out of it, you know, so... Well, I think that we would all agree.

[31:08] Speaker 2: This, this-

[31:09] Speaker 1: And, um...

[31:09] Speaker 2: ... kind of circles back, also, to the movement to lessen physical fitness requirements. Uh, this job is rigorous, uh, not only from an emotional, uh, standpoint, but from a physical standpoint. And, you know, lessening the standards to get into the academy or be at the academy is, is not... It's detrimental to everybody, um, and you shouldn't put people in that situation if they, if they're not physically fit, you know.

[31:37] Speaker 2: I can't imagine dropping a guy into Army Ranger school, uh-

[31:41] Speaker 1: (laughs) Yeah.

[31:41] Speaker 2: ... that, you know, that can't do 20 push-ups and 30 s- 30 sit-ups, uh, but you're gonna drop him into some of the most rigorous training out there.

[31:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, it just, uh, it surprises me that some of these recruits show up. I've been there, I've had the classes, and, uh, the person, you know, they, they don't work out, and, and the first time they've ever been in a fight is in DE- in a, in a circle red man drill in DT. Um, and, and it needs to be a lifestyle change. They need... It needs to be part of their lifestyle, not just to do it when they get in the academy. 10 seconds, we're going to our next commercial break. Guys, stick with us, we'll be right back. All right, guys, it's time to talk about GunLearn at gunlearn.com. And you know, as law enforcement officers, we deal with guns every day, but it's what we don't know about them that gets us into trouble. Injuries, civil lawsuits, accidental discharges, misidentifications, lost prosecutions, and disciplinary issues, but gunlearn.com, they have your back.

[32:28] Speaker 1: You can quickly become extremely firearm knowledgeable and ammunition knowledgeable by simply learning 14 training modules from the convenience of your home or your office, or by attending a live seminar at gunlearn.com. You can also become a safe, accurate, and competent certified firearms specialist, like our very own Captain Bret Bartlett, and also attorney Ken Affianco. Now, the course has had huge success in raising the bar of firearm knowledge, and GunLearn has been a trusted source since way back in 2011 for gun manufacturers, federal agencies, forensic organizations, and police departments nationwide. Now, the founder, Dan O'Kelly, has got a deal for you if you have your own agency. If you're a chief or a sheriff, you can actually host a seminar for absolutely no cost, which is an amazing opportunity. You can go to thegunlearn.com to get more information. Again, that is gunlearn.com. Welcome back. Leo Round Table at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show.

[33:15] Speaker 1: My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host. We're joined by Sheriff Mark Cryer from... All the way from Walla Walla County in Washington State. Um, did we wrap up the last topic, Sheriff, or is it time to move on to something else? I, I, I know that you had asked me, when... On the break, you had asked me... We were talking about, like, driving habits from police and stuff. I'll tell you what I still do, though. When I'm, when I'm driving to my destination and I get close, what do you do? My seatbelt comes off, and, uh, and I typically like to have... I like to roll with the window down, at least partially, a lot of time, if I'm going, like, slower speeds, not interstate speeds, but... 'Cause I like to be able to hear, um, you know, what's going on, but... Some of those habits, but yeah, a seatbelt, when I'm getting close to my house, I'm... Dude, my seatbelt's off, just in case, you know, you gotta bail, you know? You don't wanna have that seatbelt on, and, uh...

[33:59] Speaker 1: And I remember, we never used to wear seatbelts working until, until we had to. Remember those cars they had? You couldn't... If you, if you sat in the car and you closed the door, the seatbelt was automatically attached and going (imitates seatbelt whirring) , it would, it would, like, rotate. I, I... We hated those things. We would, you know, drive around in cool cars, and oh, it was just horrible. Then we finally had the... Then they had SOPs and manual regulations saying you had to wear the seat belts and stuff, and that was just... Oh, it was brutal getting past that, you know, but it was a lot better than having to deal with the body cams, so...

[34:28] Speaker 2: I can't remember what make of car it was, also, but when you locked the car door, uh, the handle wouldn't pop the lock. You had to manually unlock it, and that used to drive me crazy.

[34:40] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[34:41] Speaker 2: I... And, and it would auto-lock, like when you-

[34:44] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

[34:44] Speaker 2: ... close the door and you put it in park, then all the car locks would go on, and you couldn't-

[34:51] Speaker 1: From the inside, you couldn't open it?

[34:51] Speaker 2: ... you couldn't open the door. Yeah, unless you hit the button to unlock.

[34:54] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[34:54] Speaker 2: I, I was like, "That's way too dangerous. I can't be in this car. Give me a new one."

[34:59] Speaker 1: Yeah. Reminds me of a, uh, of a female officer in Tampa that pulled over... I think it was on the... I... In my mind, in, in my memory, it was the side of the... It was the side of the interstate in the emergency lane, and she got in the backseat with a, another female, I believe, and the door closed, and they couldn't get out, and they had to call for a unit that... To open up the door and let them out.

[35:22] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[35:22] Speaker 1: You know, on radio.

[35:24] Speaker 2: God.

[35:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, and she didn't sta- she didn't stay with us long after that, yeah. That was, uh, yeah. A little extracur- curricular activity there. Okay, uh, so (laughs) are you ready to cover the fir-... Here we go. First, first video story, rumble.com. This is Better, our favorite law enforcement video channel. Phoenix police officers, they fatally shoot an unarmed man, later determined to be the wrong suspect.

[35:46] Speaker 2: This is a mental health emergency. 911, what's your emergency? Hey, show me your fucking hands!

[36:09] Speaker 1: Guys, um, it can happen. Um, we're in Phoenix, Arizona, and, uh, probably near where that restaurant, that guy, you know, that, that, that restaurant is from, that, uh... What was it? The Salvadorian guy that was giving away free food, the ICE agents. So the Phoenix Police Department said in an update on Friday that a member of their team fatally shot the wrong person during a police shooting on January the 26th. Now, court records have identified Edgar Garcia, 33 years old, as the suspect who allegedly fired several gunshots, and he caused a violent commotion at a home that resulted in Phoenix police coming out and shooting another guy, a 36-year-old named Christian Diaz Rendon. A court filing written by police confirms that a Phoenix police officer fatally shot Rendon while he was on top of the...... real bad guy, Garcia. It states that those two guys and another adult were engaged in a violent struggle. But there are issues with this, guys. Um, it, it's not just ...

[37:02] Speaker 1: A- and my opinion, Sheriff might feel differently, but I, I don't think it's just a blatant, you know, uh, huge mistake by law enforcement. And here's a quote from, uh, the family attorney. Now, remember, this is the, the, (laughs) the attorney representing the family. "I don't understand the decision to shoot. Um, he didn't off- d- did not offer warnings from what I can see and hear." He must have watched the wrong video then, 'cause I did. Uh, "There were no commands made to Christian to put his arms up. He was just shot and killed." And, uh, and that, that's what the attorney's saying, not what you're gonna see and hear on the video. Um, in the body cam video footage, the officer whose camera is recording can be seen talking with neighbors, trying to find out where this person in that was shooting. And the officer, when he gets to the house, uh, where the shooting took place, he can, he can be heard yelling, "What? Hey, show me your," expletive, "hands." So, he did give a command.

[37:50] Speaker 1: The officer then walks into the home and someone in the background can be heard screaming. A- and of course, after he said, "Show me your hands," the, the cop ended up shooting, so ... Um, then the people are yelling, "Hey, it's not him," and, uh, another individual be- begins, you know, starts screaming. And footage from the other officer's body cam shows the moment the first officer shot into the residence. And now there's security footage as well, just outside the front door of the home, and it shows a person on top of another person. Well, here, here's what happened. I'm gonna ... It just gets too confusing. You've got a bad guy that it's kinda hard to see, but apparently he's got a gun, and you got another guy, a big dude that pretty much goes and tackles him, and he, and he ... It says that he disarmed the bad guy. But this guy that disarms the, the bad guy that had fired a shot in the house, he starts wa- meleeing on this guy, just, like, punching him.

[38:37] Speaker 1: And I mean, this goes on forever, and there's people walking back and forth doing ... There's no interaction, they're not jumping in and grabbing the gun, moving it away, or stopping this guy from beating the other dude. So when the cop shows up and he gives a verbal command and the guy doesn't comply, he shoots the guy on top beating the other dude, and, uh, and, and the dude that he was beating apparently wasn't armed anymore, but the dudes just, you know, relentlessly pounding them while people are just nonchalantly walking by and doing nothing. So at least that's what I saw. Um, Sheriff, we got four minutes but I was, I was curious what your take is on that?

[39:09] Speaker 2: Y- yeah, extremely chaotic, uh, situation. And once again, uh, w- we'll, we'll throw a little caution in there. Uh, body cams give you a perspective, but they don't give you the whole perspective of what's going on. Um, you know, very difficult, no different than ... You know, I remember a scenario in the academy that, uh, you get a shots fired call at a convenience store and you walk in and there's a guy on the floor and a guy is standing there with a gun, and you shoot the guy with the gun, and it's the convenience store owner that just shot an armed robber.

[39:45] Speaker 2: Uh, and so-

[39:46] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[39:46] Speaker 2: ... um, you know, these situations happen. Um, I ... You can't really see it f- from the, from the one perspective, you can't really see what the officer saw when he made the decision to shoot. Um, you know, I can sit and second-guess him, but that's all I'm doing, is I'm second-guessing him because I didn't see what he was seeing. So, whether that gun was up in the air, where that gun was, uh, he made the decision to shoot and he's gonna has- have to justify why he decided to shoot. So, uh, very unfortunate, but as you and I both know, when you show up to these scenes, extremely chaotic, and with the number of people there, uh, didn't look like your run-of-the-mill, you know, suburban neighborhood.

[40:37] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[40:38] Speaker 1: Oh, uh, I agree. Hey, uh, real quick, let's see if we can put this other one in here, rumble.com. This is Butter again. Ta'Shawn Rodgers fired at Sean at plainclothes officers before, uh, being fatally shot by other officers.

[40:54] Speaker 3: (gunfire) Fuck is this? What the fuck? Man, you good? What the fuck? Man, you good? I'm good. (gunfire) Fucking idiot. What the fuck?

[41:43] Speaker 1: So, we're in Jersey City, New Jersey, and, uh, we got the, uh, street crimes unit involved here. Uh, look, there's plainclothes guys working in unmarked vehicles. And so you've got your, uh, your first group, uh, bad guys TaShawn Rodgers, 27 years old, it's one o'clock in the morning, October the 21st. And as our bad guy's walking northbound, two officers in an unmarked car pull up to the side of the road, and they're ahead of him. Our bad guy discharges a firearm at them, and then he starts running away in the opposite direction. So now you got another officer in plainclothes in another cool car. And man, he rolls up, he hears ... I mean, you can hear the shot fired, he knows this bad guy's running, knows that he's armed, and this officer bails out shooting. And, and, and it's, uh, it, it's dark out, it, it's one o'clock in the morning, but this guy unloads, um, on the, on the bad guy that had just shot at his compadres, not knowing if any of them got hit or anything.

[42:34] Speaker 1: So police officer, Lance Jackson exits the passenger side of the car, starts discharging his weapon as the bad guy, who's armed and holding a gun, is running by him. You can see him discharging the weapon. And then they ... He kinda loses it a little bit, the officer. He's just really shocked that he had to use, you know, deadly force and stuff. They asked him if he was good or whether he'd been hit, he said he was fine. And they did provide medical aid to the bad guy, but he ended up dying, and, uh, a firearm was recovered at the scene. Sheriff Krier.

[43:00] Speaker 2: I, I think if nothing else, uh, people should take away from this video that no police officer wants to shoot anybody. Um, whether they're being shot at or not, they, uh, they don't like it, and I think that's the reaction that you saw from the officer after he discharged his weapon. Um, you know, n- not the outcome he wanted. He would have much rather taken that guy into custody and put him in jail than have to shoot him. So, um, I, I didn't see anything wrong with the, the shooting. Uh, I'm sure it'll come back justified, but, uh, they'll do a shooting review on it, and he'll either be charged or he'll be exonerated.

[43:39] Speaker 1: Uh, you know, there is a, uh, a human component to this, and people sometimes forget that police officers, cops are, they're, you know, we're, we're human. And, and there's feelings involved. And I, I applaud him for doing the right thing, and I can appreciate him just being so frustrated and angry that he had to, you know? I mean, he, he was in his ... he was just in that ... he didn't ask to be put in that situation, uh, but he was, and he had that, and he acted im- im- im- from what, from all, everything we can tell, appropriately, uh, and he was just frustrated that he had to do it because there's that human component. And I'm glad that we've got a guy, a cop that obviously did not wanna have to shoot and kill somebody, and it just bothered him, and, and that's it, but he still was able to perform his job. That's the kinda guy you want doing that job, you know? I, I don't, I don't ... (laughs) either no wisecracks afterwards, no jokes.

[44:29] Speaker 1: He was obviously troubled by what he had to do but he did it.

[44:33] Speaker 2: Yep. Um, and, and good shooting, right? I mean, you got a moving target at, uh, getting out of a moving car, so, uh, good training and, uh, good marksmanship.

[44:45] Speaker 1: Good point. Good point. Well, Sheriff Krier, thank you so much for being on the show. Uh, jam-up job. Uh, you know, we went there. Two other people couldn't hang with you. They had to go-

[44:51] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[44:51] Speaker 1: ... and, and you, uh, you, you did great. I also wanna mention The Window Blue at thewindowblue.org. Lieutenant Randy Sutton's 501 (c) (3) , helping cops out. You know, Randy called me and he's out, you know, covering this stuff, uh, with the, uh, with the investigation. So he's doing a jam-up job of it. He's on FOX all day. I wanna mention our sponsors, guys. Please support 'em. Gollus.com, CompliantTechnologies.com, GunLearn.com, Medicare.LifeSafelyRecruiting, and 2Bellas.com. We'll see you guys back tomorrow at 12:00 noon Eastern.

[45:19] Speaker 1: (instrumental music plays)