00:00

(instrumental music plays) Welcome to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block, and I'm your host for a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And let me introduce the crew, guys, if you don't mind waiting for the video portion of our show. And man, we've got, we've got like so many guys on the show today, and I usually go in the order of rank. So, this is gonna get a little dicey here, but let me just go ahead and take a stab at it here. We've got Chief Ralph Ornelas. You know, he always reminds me that he's the chief. He wants to be announced first. So hopefully, I didn't upset you, Chief, and I remember that you put the, you know, the title before your name. So, Chief Ralph Ornelas from, formerly from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office. Then he became a police chief in California.
00:51

He's still there, um, at, what, the Ormond, Ormond Beach area? Is that correct, Chief? Is that-
00:56

Huntington Beach.
00:57

Huntington-
00:57

Huntington Beach.
00:58

It was a beach. They got so many beaches in California, I can't keep up. We've also got Dr. Travis Yates, retired major from the Tulsa Police Department, and again, Doctor. Now, he's been having a debate with me during, before the shows. "Chip, I think doctors should go before chief," and then the chief says, "Chief should go before doctor." So, hopefully, I, you guys will live with this. We've got Lieutenant Chuck Springer, uh, from LAPD. So yeah, uh, Chief Ralph Ornelas used to work for the sheriff's office in LA and, and, and Lieutenant Chuck used to work for the, uh, the PD part, so that's gonna be some good, yeah, stuff going on during the show today. And then we got the Shake'N Bake team, who arguably should be listed before anybody, because they're the regulars on Fox News, C-CNN, Newsmax, all that stuff, except they're not allowed to appear together. On our show, we lower the restriction.
01:41

I'm not saying we lower the bar, but we lower that restriction so they can both appear together. Uh, and it, and I just think the other networks can't handle the entertainment that you guys bring to the table. So, whether you're a SAC or a SA-SAY-ACK, or however, you know, whatever you guys are, you know, I- I- I love it. So, thanks for being on the show, gentlemen. Hey, shout out to our sponsors, our title sponsor Gulls at Gulls.com. Don't forget the, uh, special discount code, READY015 in order, in order to get 15% off your next purchase. We have CompliantTechnologies.com, our satellite sponsor, GunLearn.com, Medicare.live, SafewayRecruiting.com, our streaming sponsor. Thanks to them during the live show. We're streaming to about a million followers right now. And TwoBells.com, they built a new online store at leoroundtable.com. Go to the website, upper right corner, check out the online store. You can get cool sh- uh, shirts and gear and the shirt that...
02:26

Who's, who, that's Frank Lverage. Look at that shirt Frank Laverage has got on. Yeah, you can get that shirt at leoroundtable.com. I love that shirt. It's awesome. And, uh, so, uh, so thanks guys for, uh, for, for being here and for our sponsors. Also, a quick shout out to the Brian Burns for the Tampa Free Press. Thanks for carrying our content, Brian, and, and getting us on MSN. Also, Ray Detrick, former LawMan.com, and Travis Yates, our very own with LawOfficer.com. Thanks to all those guys and all those entities for helping make this show happen. And now, what in the world are we gonna be talking about today, guys? We got some great topics. Uh, we, we, we got the Feds on, so we gotta, we gotta, we gotta hook them up. The, the new FISA rules that could, uh, put rogue FBI agents behind bars. I have, um, I have mixed feelings about this. I'm curious what you guys think. We've also got Feds, uh, don't have to mask down.
03:13

Court knocks out a California ID law that was like targeting like ICE agents and, and yeah, uh, the state of California and, and Governor Gavin Newsom got spanked publicly, uh, by the ni- I think it was the Ninth Circuit of all places. Then we got Colorado district attorney pursues assault charges against a federal immigration officer and DHS, Department of Homeland Security, is condemning the political stunt. Uh, we've got Dallas PD, uh, there's a video. Officer gets sucker punched and the dude's unarmed and you can't really see exactly everything that happened after that, but the, but the, the cop fires twice, hits the bad guy once. We're covering that. Um, high-speed chase ends in fatal crash and shooting by Parma Heights SWAT officers. Ohio officer resigns after an alleged ICE-related visit to Cincinnati schools. They hit three of them and, uh, yeah, the, the chief and an officer went, and the guy totally bailed on the chief and threw her under the bus.
04:03

58-year-old who was armed with a BB rifle, he's fatally shot by Denver police. We're back in, uh, in Denver. Then we got a badge, a gun, and PTSD. Texas Supreme Court backs the firing, um, of a, uh, of a ranger after a school standoff. And then, if we have time to get to it, we have a paramedic, um, who's treating a dying police dog and getting flack for it. And, uh, I'm curious, if we have time to get to that, what you guys think. Uh, was that the right thing to do or not? So look, here we go. Let's start off with FISA. Tampa Free Press and TampaEPD.com, the new FISA rules that could, that could put rogue FBI agents behind bars. There's actually two articles, uh, about this. Trump, Trump has, uh, changed his tune to this new legislative push by the House Republicans in Washington. It's titled the Foreign Intelligence Accountability Act. Now, it's gonna, i- i- if it passes, it'll change how FBI accesses data on US citizens.
04:52

Now, it's a House amendment to, um, 1318, and it introduces strict oversight and criminal consequences, criminal, to prevent surveillance overreach. Um, I do like some things in this. The legislation mandates a monthly audit of FBI activities, and Section 2 requires the FBI submit written statements for every search query involving United States, uh, you know, persons, citizens, uh, to a dedicated civil liberties protection officer. And if the officer sees anything that looks like an abuse, then it gets referred automatically to the Inspector General's office for, for a criminal investigation. And the most significant change, according to the article, is the introduction of prison time for government employees who, under Section 3, if any FBI officer who knowingly or willfully violates search procedures or falsifies records to justify a query, they would face up to five years in federal prison.
05:40

And it moves surveillance violations from internal policy, like an IA kind of a thing, uh, to a, a, a, a criminal investigation, but, y- we're talking about federal crimes here. Now, to protect domestic privacy, the bill clarifies Fourth Amendment requirements. It explicitly, uh, it i- explicitly prohibits the intentional targeting of Americans under Section 702, and if the government intends to surveil, uh, a person in the United States, they have to seek a traditional warrant or a specific court order through established legal channels. So I, in short, it looks to me on the outside, and the Feds can tell me if I'm wrong, if they just simply get warrants for all the stuff they do, instead of doing like normal, like, PC kind of stuff, they... I'm assuming that they're gonna be covered. It also has attorney oversight, congressional access, and GAO audits, and all, all kinds of stuff on this. Uh, it talks about, um, Trump...... had...
06:28

They're renewing the federal surveillance powers before April 30th. There's a deadline where this stuff expires. And he has reversed his position. He was critical of the government overreach, especially with everything that Donald Trump, you know, President Trump has gone through. But now he's pushing for a clean reauthorization of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, um, signing mil- military necessity with the ongoing conflict in Iran. So, that's it in a, uh, in a nutshell. I'm curious, you know, what you guys have to think about it. So, whoever wants to go first. I know our Fed should probably have some more information about this than, than most everybody. And we have the standoff. It's Rich. Rich is gonna take one for the team, so thank you, Rich.
07:05

Well, you know, Chip, most of these, um, guidelines and restrictions, they were in place already. But what happened here was a total breakdown in the entire chain of command. So, everything from the field all the way up to the, the senior directors and administrators at the FBI, to include the Department of Justice, just totally disregarded all the safeguards that were in place to prevent the field from going to the extent of misusing and abusing the FISA process to target political, um, candidates, political nominees, and senior elected officials, primarily whom were in place in the Trump administration. That's where the breakdown occurred. It was a breakdown throughout the entire chain of command. So, all these things that you just mentioned, they were already in place. The fact that they were just totally overlooked and allowed to be abused, therein lies the problem.
07:58

Sh- should the accounti- accountability be placed elsewhere then? Because yeah, you're right. I can't imagine... You can't do a wiretap without those things. You can't just do a PC wiretap, right? So, I can't imagine-
08:08

Right.
08:08

... how they got away from that and heads aren't rolling because of it.
08:11

Much the same way, you can't just take a blank warrant affidavit and fill it out and sign some judge's name to it and do whatever you want. But that's pretty much the extent that was going on here. People were just looking the other way and allowing these things to take place with no ramifications or repercussions whatsoever. So, to answer your question, yeah, if some FBI agent in the field goes out and circumvents policy and, you know, fictitiously and fraudulently, um, pursues some FISA affidavit, yeah, he belongs to... He should be fired and probably belongs in jail. Just like anyone else would if you executed a search warrant that you completely fabricated. So, there's nothing new here. It's just, um, you know, it just needs to be reinforced and enforced by the, uh, by the FBI.
08:56

All right. Frank Loveridge.
08:58

Well, first of all, it's the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, right? So, it should be targeting foreign individuals.
09:03

Sure.
09:03

We had an open border for four years. We had military-aged men coming across our border. We don't know how many came across. They weren't looking for love. Uh, who knows what they were looking for when they came from these, uh, countries that were adversarial to us. But you take that and you look at the actual act itself, and you see what's been going on. You know, Kevin Clinesmith. I'll bring that name up. We're all familiar with Kevin. Kevin Clinesmith was an FBI employee. He falsified a FISA document, and that actually... It led to a, to a, uh, warrantless search against Carter Page, a Trump campaign advisor. And what happened to Kevin Clinesmith? He got 12 months probation and 400 months, 400 hours... I'm sorry, 400 hours of community service. This is not justice. The FBI has abused it. There were 3.4 million, uh, searches done under that FISA warrant in 2021. Most of them were done against J6 individuals that were out protesting.
09:58

If you look at that, let's talk about Operation Arctic Frost. We look at Arctic Frost, we know that eight United States senators, all Republican, and one House member, were being monitored on the same dates from January 4th to January 7th. This is an abuse of power, this is weaponization, and it can't happen. But do we need FISA? We absolutely do. We have to be able to combat our open borders and what has come into, uh, our country to, uh, be able to thwart their activities, and we need it very much so. But we definitely need the reform. And I agree with Richie, it's the Foreign Intelligence, it's the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
10:34

Wow.
10:34

You know, I, I agree with everything you said, Frank and, and Rich. And, and the thing about it is this, we gotta re-correct ourselves with the FBI and what they did and abused during a certain, uh, Trump administration with abuse. It's just like, you know, Chuck could tell you, we had CalGangs. And, you know, Chuck, you know CalGangs is the intel system for, uh, LAPD, LA County Sheriffs throughout the state of California. Well, guess what? We had to have audits on it all the time to make sure that our deputies, investigators who work in gangs are using it appropriately when we u- we write search warrants. So, we had audits on it. I could tell you a story when I had one of my detectives abused it. I had to go after him. Not only administratively, but criminally. And so, you know, some... We need those oversights when people take a system and violate those policies.
11:26

Thank you, gentlemen. Excellent content. You know, we are coming up on our first commercial break and we're getting close, but I have just enough time to whet the appetite for the next one. And, uh, we're still talking about the Feds. Uh, but we're gonna jump over to, uh, Dr. Travis H's favorite country, uh, California. Feds don't have to mash down, court knocks out a California ID law. This is great stuff. Stick with us, guys. Commercial break, we'll be right back. (instrumental music plays) My family only cares about one thing, that I come home safe.
11:58

At Gulls, every order begins with a promise. Made with purpose. Stitched for support. Back with pride. Answered by dedicated hands. Delivering the standard you have sworn to uphold.
12:33

(instrumental music plays) We serve more than the mission, we serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safe.
12:51

Welcome back. LEO Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. "The Law Enforcement Talk Show." My name is Chip DeBlok, and I'm your host. And we are joined by Chief Ralph Ornelas. We got Dr. Travis Yates, retired major. Lieutenant Chuck Springer from LAPD. We got Rich Deripoli and Frank Loveridge, former SACs from Secret Service. So, thanks guys. You know, we left off and I kind of whet the appetite on this next story. Uh, tampafreepress.com, at tampafp.com. Uh, feds don't have to mask down. Court knocks out California ID law. I'm sorry, I'm, I'm chuckling a little bit. I'm so happy. When I say chuckling, it's no slam on Chuck Springer, who's on the show. He's just got one of those names, you know? But California's attempt to force federal agents to show their faces and their badges, it just hit a major legal wall. So, and, and surprisingly from the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which has a tendency out there to be a little bit, you know, liberal.
13:41

Uh, and so they stepped in to block a specific part of the state's No Vigilantes Act. It's ruling that California simply doesn't have the power to tell federal officers how to dress or how to do their job. So the legal battle, it centers around Section 10 of the act. It's a law that was signed into by who other, uh, than Gavin Newsom, the, the governor of California. And he did this back in September '25, not that long ago. It requires federal agents, but they're specifically targetin- ICE, targeting ICE agents, and they're requiring them to wear visible identification, including their agency name and either a personal name or a badge number while they're on patrol. And even though the law made exceptions for working undercover, um, any other federal officer that was caught without a visible ID would have faced a misdemeanor charge under California law.
14:24

Now, we have some stuff coming up where we're gonna be talking about Colorado and how they actually followed through on some of these threats. But the appeals court, and remember, the Ninth Circuit, uh, they did not buy the state's logic. They wrote, um, on behalf of the court, it was Judge Mark Bennett argued that the law, it overstepped a major boundary in the US Constitution. It's known as the Supremacy Clause. And it forbids, well, it, it basically says that federal law and federal operations, that they trump state laws and straight regulations, uh, whenever they clash. Judge Bennett noted that the California law was a direct attempt to regulate the United States in its performance of governmental functions, and to control their conduct in reforming law enforcement operations. So, uh, I, I think, you know, this judge on the Ninth Circuit, it appears to me he got it right. Curious what you guys think. Dr. Travis Yates?
15:09

Well, it's not hard to get it right. Supremacy Clause didn't get invented yesterday. I mean, I, I, quite frankly, the people that follow Governor Newsom and these ideas, they must think they're dumb. Because anyone with a brain knows that that bill was unconstitutional. It doesn't take a judge to say that. And I'm sure Newsom knows it as well, and so do the legislature. A lot of them are lawyers. But they do it for appearance, they do it for show, because they think the people that follow them are stupid. Now, maybe they are, but I just think that it's disrespectful to anybody on the left that they're trying to sell this to, that they're literally selling them something that is so plainly unconstitutional, they knew it would get thrown out on day one. But that's kind of what we see across the country, just silly things. By the way, federal agents don't want to mask up, but they have to mask up because the same people that are demanding masks are the same people that are doxing them.
16:01

So, you notice that the state of California and these other states that are upset about the masks aren't passing laws to make doxing a fe- a felony. They're not doing that. If they would do that, I'm sure they would, I'm sure that the masks would come off. But, um, it's just so strange that these states that used to love masks all of the sudden don't like masks. And I can speak from an outsider in California, it just seems really stupid what's going on there.
16:27

Y- you know what, Travis? Great review. And the thing about it you stated, I'm just gonna add to it, is that this governor and the other politicians, the mayor in Los Angeles, where Chuck worked and I worked in the surrounding area, they don't care. All they care about is groupthink, and they believe they have the contingency or the constituency to vote for them and to, to bring them into their tent. And they don't really care about the community like we do when we protect, we put our right hand up to protect and serve by the Constitution of the United States, to protect our community members. All they want to do is get reelected, and that's all they care about.
17:08

All right. Frank Loveridge?
17:11

1,300% increase in attacks and assaults on law enforcement from 2025 to 2026.
17:18

(laughs) Right, right.
17:18

66 vehicle attacks against officers op- there, there's only two the year before that. And then you have 238 assaults against law enforcement. The doxing of their families. All of these things to prot- that, these people are out there trying to do their job. They're trying to, to effect arrests. These are not protestors. These are agitators. These are criminals. And they're obstructing the justice which is trying to be accomplished by these ICE agents and border patrol agents. And so what I would say to this is, is that this is something we have to do to protect our people, to give them the ability to do their job, so because these numbers are just outstanding of what's going against them right now. And I, I'll tell you right now, um, the Supremacy Clause takes place. It is unconstitutional, uh, Dr. Yates and, and chief, and, uh, and we'll go from there. But, uh, yeah, I'm glad they, they shot this thing down.
18:07

You know, uh, Rich, you were right. Uh, Frank is not just a pretty face. He's just not another pretty face. He actually... Yeah, he actually knows what he's talking about.
18:15

Look, the guy's spent decades sitting in that nuclear missile silo for the Air Force-
18:19

(laughs)
18:19

... so he had a lot of time to contemplate, uh, you know, life. But, uh, you know, I gotta agree with everything that's been said, right?
18:25

California will do anything that they can to appease the anti-police, anti-Trump, uh, special interest group sentiment, and they'll throw darts at the wall and if something sticks, fantastic. Y- you're right. Newsom knew that this was unconstitutional, but what the hell, we'll give it a shot and see what happens, right? It's just another way to wind up these special interest groups and keep them in your tent so you can assure yourself of being reelected. The guy needs to worry more about what the gang members are wearing and about putting water in the damn hydrants than he has to worry about what I'm wearing as a federal agent when I'm conducting legally authorized federal operations.
19:04

So Chuck, take up for your people, your peeps over there in California, even though you're here in Florida now, and I understand why. Take up for your peeps. Well, that's, that's what I was gonna say. I, I really don't have anything else to add. You guys have covered everything. But that's why some of us have left. Hmm. Well, guys, hold, hold that thought 'cause we're gonna hop over ... Now, I've only got a little over a minute. I don't wanna whet the appetite, but that's what's going on in, in, in California, but not too far away in Colorado on foxnews.com, the DA in Colorado, um, is pursuing assault charges against a federal immigration officer and DHS c- is condemning this as a political stunt. So a Colorado district attorney, and we'll say who in a second, charged a federal ... Charged a federal immigration officer with third-degree assault and criminal mischief on Tuesday in a move that DHS, Department of Homeland Security, is calling unlawful and a political stunt.
19:54

Now, District Attorney Eric Murray and the district attorney for the Colorado Sixth District announced on Tuesday that he's charging, um, ICE or US Customs and Enforcement Protection Border or US Customs and Border Protection Officer Nicholas Rice with two counts for an incident that occurred during an immigration enforcement activity in Durango that happened between the 27th and 28th of October. Guys, we're going to our second commercial break. We're gonna cover this when we get back. We'll be right back. All right. Time to talk about Compliant Technologies at complianttechnologies.com. And you know they're committed to providing non-lethal solutions to help officers gain the upper hand safely and rapidly in a humane, low ethics manner, utilizing what they call their CD3, which stands for conductive distraction and de-escalation device technology. Uh, Travis Yates knows all about this. Their flagship product we all know by now, it's called the Glove.
20:43

It's, it's not only helped officers tens of thousands of times, but they've actually had over 250,000 deployments. Guess what? No injuries, no deaths. (laughs) Amazing stat, they've actually achieved non-lethal status in an arena that predominantly can only offer less lethal results. And when it comes to weapons retention, transitioning to a sidearm or conductive energy weapon, theglove@complianttechnologies.com, they have virtually eliminated weapons confusion. So stay ahead of the game with Compliant Technologies and the revolutionary CD3 that hundreds of agencies are ordering 22 nationwide. And friends, take it from me, when it comes to safety, this is one of the most common sense hands-on solutions to ever come along. Go to the complianttechnologies.com today, tell them that Chip and Travis sent you. All right, guys. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. The law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host.
21:24

We're joined by Chief Ralph Lanellos from California, Dr. Travis Yates, retired police major from Tulsa. We've got Lieutenant Chuck Springer from LAPD. We got former SAC Rich Deripoli and also former SAC Frank Loveridge, both from the Secret Service. So thank you gentlemen for being on the show. We left off talking about an article from Fox News, Colorado district attorney pursues assault charge against a federal immigration officer and DHS is condemning it as a political stunt. Now we just talked to you about, you know, California trying to do essentially the same thing and it got shot down by the Ninth Circuit. In this case, uh, we've got, uh, District Attorney Eric Murray, uh, the district attorney for Colorado Sixth, uh, District announced on Tuesday he's charging US Customs and Border Patrol Officer Nicholas Rice with two counts for an incident that occurred during an immigration enforcement activity that happened in Durango, Colorado between October the 27th and the 28th.
22:15

Now, Ann Francesca Staggy told investigators that Officer Rice knocked her phone out of her hand, I watched the video, and she was protesting outside a, uh, ICE facility in Durango according to the Associated Press. She's in this cop's face, uh, with this stupid cell phone and making comments, you know, "I want, you want your face on, I got your face." And video of the incident shows Staggy, our, our, our female, uh, holding her phone in front of the masked immigration agent's face before the agent grabs it, and then she appears to grab the officer's shoulder as he starts to walk away, at which point he grabs her and then other federal agents take her to the ground. Now, she claimed that the officer put her in a chokehold, which we don't even do, right? And that she still feels pain when she puts on a jacket.
23:00

Um, the prosecution comes after the Colorado Bureau of Investigations, so they actually opened up a probe into the incident at the behest of the Durango Police Department, of all things, and Chief Bryce Current with Durango Police that wanted the Colorado Bureau of Investigation to start the investigation. This is what they told, uh, ac- according to, to the Associated Press. So DHS is claiming that the prosecution was a political stunt, that the states have no authority, as we just talked about, to investigate cases of this nature. And here's a quote saying that federal officers acting in the course of their duties can only be investigated by other federal agencies according to DHS. The agency is still investigating the case, though, per the Associated Press. So they're not gonna, they're not gonna let it go. Chuck Springer. So obviously, as you mentioned, this is a case of grandstanding.
23:47

But you know what's most telling to me as I watch the video is you have a group of so-called protestors that are actually interfering with a federal operation, which in itself is a crime. Why is there not anything being done against these individuals? So ... Dallas Police Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I, I ... Anyway. The, the video itself in terms of the interaction- There you go. ... between this woman and, and the gen or the, uh, agent, I ... It was difficult for me to really see clearly as to what exactly happened. But what happened with the so-called protesters was very clear to me. Yeah. The thing ... And I meant ... I said Dallas, I meant Durango Police, though. It's almost like, uh, they're dropping the ball like Minneapolis was when we had, you know, ICE and Border Patrol out there in, uh, the M- Minneapolis, you know, St. Paul area. Um-Guys, if there's no more care... Oh, I'm sorry. We have Frank Lumberge. Go ahead, Frank.
24:41

Well, I'm just gonna add to Chuck. You're 100% right. Um, there should be charges filed against the assailant. You don't put your hand on an officer when they're trying to do their duties and, and make an arrest, or whatever that was going on that day. You were in their face. Uh, I would take that as a threat, if you, if you stuck your hand in my face. And, uh, and whether it be a phone or a knife or a gun or whatever it is, anything can be used as a weapon. If it struc- if it strikes you in the head and then you have your service weapon, that could become in jeopardy as well. So you have all these things going on. I think, uh, honestly, this woman should be arrested and the, and the officer, uh, I can't even fathom the fact that there were charges filed against him. I... And of course, they won't go anywhere because the supremacy clause will take place and all, he was in the, uh, he was, he was affecting his duties and that's it. Uh, it's done.
25:25

But, uh, but it's a sample to see this, uh, this type of behavior from these citizens.
25:30

Yeah, I know you guys heard the whistles and stuff going off too. Uh, we had, yesterday, the day before, we had, uh, another case where we've got actually a warrant put out for a, uh, an officer, um, for his arrest for something similar. So it's just getting kind of crazy. And speaking of crazy, wlwt.com, Ohio officer, so we're gonna hop over to Ohio. Uh, he resigns after alleged ICE-related visits to Cincinnati schools. Uh, s- this is, this is... I found this a little humorous because apparently the female chief grabbed him and started hitting some schools. So an Ohio police officer was placed on paid administrative leave after visiting three Cincinnati public schools last week on behalf of ICE. And he's resigned now. Officer Jeff Baylor, he submitted his resignation and interim Police Department Manager, Matt Jones, uh, confirmed this to WLWT. And Jones, the manager says that the council has yet to vote on the officer's resignation.
26:24

Now, the manager also confirmed that the Gratis Police Department, they immediately suspended the 286G program indefinitely and, uh, that, of course, is this federal partnership, uh, with ICE and local and state agencies allowing them to perform specified immigration functions under ICE's direction and oversight. So Officer Baylor and Gratis Police Chief, uh, Tania, uh, LaManna, they were both identified as the two officers who reportedly visited three CPS schools, Western Hills University High School, uh, Reese Prince Academy, and Roberts Academy, and they were trying to get access to the campus. Chief LaManna, uh, she was placed on administrative leave as well. Um, so remember, the officer, um, he has submitted his resignation after being put on leave and she's on leave as well. So officials allege that the chief and the officer appeared unannounced, seeking to conduct wellness checks on behalf of ICE.
27:16

The officers were turned away by school district officials at every one of the three campuses. So in a statement, uh, to WLWT, ICE confirmed the agency was aware of the officer's actions, calling the Gratis Police Department a law enforcement partner, but they said that the visit to, um, CPS was not intended as law enforcement action and it did not involve any federal officers. They said that, uh, they were, they were just trying to locate unaccompanied minors who entered the country illegally during the Biden administration and said that, um, there have been a lot of unvetted sponsors who are actually smugglers and sex traffickers and that's what they were looking into. Cincinnati Public S- Public School Superintendent, Shawna Murphy said the officers did not interact with any students.
27:57

So on Sunday, Officer Baylor, um, he spoke to WLWT about the incident saying that, now this is where he's throwing his female chief under the bus, uh, he was unaware that he would be visiting Cincinnati school buildings when he was asked by his Chief LaManna to accompany, um, uh, him on a, on a law enforcement mission Wednesday. And Officer Baylor said also that the chief, uh, th- they were doing a, I guess they were talking with CPS staff saying that he was asked to serve as a backup capacity. Uh, he did not insulate or he did not insinuate that he had federal license to, to be there or that he was acting on behalf of a federal agency. That she, the chief handled all the talking. He just stayed silent throughout the whole day because it wasn't his job. (laughs) So, so he, he, he kind of, he kind of bailed on the, on the remaining, on, on the chief who still has a job there. Uh, but that's what we have.
28:48

We have a little over three and a half, about three and a half minutes, guys, before we go to our next commercial break. Any, uh, any dialog on this one? Chuck Springer.
28:56

Yeah. You know, a little interesting twist to this. I, I did, uh, you know... Disclaimer, I did an AI search on this one. Um, the, the, the town of Gratis or Gratis, I don't know how they pronounce it, they don't have a policy with respect to not assisting ICE, neither does the state of Ohio. What's interesting though is the schools that these two folks went to were two counties over from their jurisdiction. And so I don't know if maybe the town of Gratis is looking this a- at more of a, you know, a, a violation of policy in terms of, you know, did they exceed their authority where they went to do what they did?
29:35

Right. Interesting.
29:36

Don't know, you know.
29:38

Yeah. Of course, working with the federal partners, you would think that that would gi- give them, you know, the jurisdiction they needed, but they didn't have any federal partners with them either. So interesting. Um-
29:47

Yeah. And again, I don't know the police department's policy or the seat. I don't know what kind of... You know, when my, I worked LAPD, you know, the sheriff's department had jurisdiction in the city and they had, we had letters of agreement signing that we had-
30:01

Right.
30:02

... jurisdiction in the county. So I don't know if that exists there with them, you know, so.
30:06

If, if only we had a doctor on the show that could explain the... Oh, Dr. Travis Shakes.
30:10

(laughs) Well, that's-
30:11

The floor is yours.
30:12

I'm just gonna say, there's, this is a story that sounds like we don't have enough information. There's a lot missing here. And so I think it's, it's hard to comment on it because you get this-
30:22

Ah, we can make it up.
30:23

You get the sense... Well, yeah, we're, but we're not, we're not-
30:25

(laughs)
30:25

... CNN, so we're gonna try to avoid that. But you get the sense that there's some details here that are missing. The chief is still there, but the chief supposedly did this, but the officer resigned immediately. Yeah, I think there's probably more details there and we'll find out if those details are heinous or not.... if the media actually reports on it. If this story just goes away, it's probably more of a pro-officer story that they don't want you to know about.
30:50

Yeah, I would like to think that if the officer didn't... Not do anything wrong, that he would not have just resigned. Unless he was just fed up with the agency, uh, uh, or, or, or the, uh, or the manager and just said, "Look, I'm going to a different agency." You know? But I, I never... Like, even when I was at my agency and they were trying to force me out, I, uh, yeah, I took, I took a stand and I, I was willing to do anything to fight. So I, I love, I love, I love fighters. And, uh, any closing words on this one, Travis? No? You're good? Well, guys, we've got a story with a video component that I've been waiting to cover. It's about an officer getting sucker punched. I've got enough time to kind of whet the appetite, um, on this one. So we've got rumble.com, This is Butter, which is our favorite law enforcement video channel. We got Dallas Police. Uh, they're releasing body cam video showing a suspect punching an officer before the shooting.
31:36

Hey, don't get out the car like that. Sir, can you tell me- No, no, no. Don't get out the... No, no, no, no. Can you tell me... Sir. Listen, listen. Go, go stand over here. Sir, sir. Go stand over here. Sir. Go stand over here. I don't have any weapons. Listen, listen, listen, man. Get outta my way. But please don't test me. Get outta my way. Please don't test me. Get outta my way. Get him out of the way. Get him out of the way. Shit. Nigga, shit. Come here. Ah! Oh, I'm hit. I'm... Ah. Oh, shit. Officer, you need help? Yeah, yeah. It's fine, it's fine.
32:16

(exhales) So, what's interesting about this, and guys, there are, there are, there are places we can go with this that, that completely justify the shooting of an unarmed guy after he punches the officer. And wait till you hear about the damage that punch did. We're gonna be talking about it after we come back from our third commercial break. Stick with us, we'll be right back. All right, guys. It's time to talk about GunLearn at GunLearn.com. And they are the first and the only company that offer a step-by-step program that takes you from your present knowledge level to become a safe, accurate, and competent certified firearms specialist, just like Captain Brett Barlett and Attorney Ken Affianco. Now, if you happen to have a certification and you're a certified firearms specialist, even if you got it five years ago, here is the deal. They've... There's new news. They've actually partnered now with SmarterDegree and that certification is now worth college credits.
33:04

And it's through SmarterDegree's University Partners Program and that is, that is the game changer. And they've been doing this since 1996. They've taught everything that LEOs, law enforce- law enforcement officers need to know about firearms and also ammunition to all facets of law enforcement. And you can start today with online training or you can register and sign up for a live seminar. And if you have your own agency, if you're a chief or sheriff, you can actually host a seminar for absolutely no cost. Amazing opportunity. Go to GunLearn.com to get more information and hook up with founder Dan O'Kelly. Again, the site, it's GunLearn.com. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at LeoRoundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block and I am your host. We're joined by Chief Ralph Ornelas, Dr. Travis Yates, retired mayor from Tulsa. Chief Ralph is from California. We got LAPD former commander Lieutenant Chuck Springer.
33:51

And we got two Secret Service former SACs, Rich Deripoli and Frank Loveridge. So thanks, guys. We left off talking about a story with a video component. It's at rumble.com, our favorite law enforcement video channel called This is Butter. Dallas Police Chief releases body cam video showing a suspect punching an officer before a shooting. Guys, this is a, a fascinating story. We're in Dallas, Texas. We have both body cam and dash cam footage that was released on Tuesday by the Dallas Police Department. It shows a suspect punching an officer in the face and he broke his nose and several other bones on the officer before the officer shot him early Sunday morning after a traffic stop near Highland Park Village. So the incident starts or involved a seven-year Officer Ashton Roast Bud, and it happened at 2:13 in the morning, and it happened on a Sunday.
34:36

So after the officer pulls over a Jeep for driving without his taillights being on, and there's been some prior interaction with a bad guy with some other officers, but this is where we're starting off. The passenger, identified as a 27-year-old Jeremy Maze, he gets out of the Jeep and he ends up attacking the officer. Uh, it, it's more like a sucker punch. They're having dialogue and then the guy w- with their right hand punches the officer right in the face. But like I said, broke his nose and some other bones, um, I- I'm assuming in his face. Uh, punched him in the face before the officer ended up firing twice. The officer, uh, looks like he goes down, stands back up and grabs a baseball cap. It looks like he's chasing after the, uh, the bad guy, uh, that, uh, that had punched him. But then you hear the officer fire two shots. One of them hits the bad guy. And so the Dallas Police Chief Daniel Comics pro- uh, said that, "Our officer was violently attacked.
35:27

This is unacceptable and really unbelievable how this incident occurred." The chief goes on to say that Maze, our bad guy, was wearing a ring on his, on his finger when he punched Officer Roast Bud, which they think contributed to the severity of the injuries. And actually, surgery remains a possibility for Officer Roast Bud according to the chief. In the body cam footage, uh, it shows the officer stumbling after the assault. The chief said that he thought that the officer was trying to remain conscious after being struck. And he said that you could, you know, tell this by the way he was walking. He still wasn't really fully back there, which, which brings another question into we have the use of deadly force to an unarmed guy, but how do... You, you know, but if you rock an officer's world where maybe he's not thinking cor- you know, completely at 100%, how does that affect the use of force?
36:14

So according to Dallas Police Deputy Chief William Griffith, Commander of the Criminal Investigation Unit, um, it, it all started... There was a traffic stop when officers encountered Maze, our bad guy, initially walking down the expressway 10 minutes earlier and there was some back and forth. Didn't wanna get off. Finally, his girlfriend picks him up, he hops in the passenger seat of the Jeep and drives off. And, uh, they thought that he was intoxicated at the time actually. And then later on, that vehicle gets pulled over because it doesn't have, I think,, uh, some... Its light's on and that's when the second incident happens where he sucker punches a cop and, uh, two shots are fired and the bad guy gets hit one time. So, uh, that said...Let's talk about this, guys. There's so many places we can go. And let's get our pre-attack indicator, uh, guy here, Travis Yates. The floor is yours, Doctor.
36:59

Well, as you know, Chip, I've spent quite a bit of d- deal of time studying what behaviors occur before violence. But let me first get this out of the way for any media that may be watching. Before you put it in a headline that this guy was unarmed, let me come over to your house and punch you in the face as hard as I can. And you can see if I'm unarmed. So, we can get that out of the way. But, uh, y- we have to look at what happened before the attack 'cause obviously the guy comes out of the car, he's arguing, he's non-compliant. All that should be sufficient enough for us to do something other than act like this is a debate show, right? But this is not just concentrated on this incident. We had a, they had a previous incident with him, different officers, and they let him do all this stuff as well. And this is happening across the country. Officers are hesitating to actually take action on these behaviors they're obviously seeing.
37:45

But there was a behavior that I want everybody to listen to, uh, that, that people aren't aware of. We did the most exhaustive study in this that's ever been known, five years of data, hundreds and hundreds of police encounters. In 31% of the time that officers were attacked, the suspect walked away. Right before this attack, you see him backing up, uh, like he's walking away. That's a deceitful tactic to try to get the officers to sort of let their guard down. But it happened in almost one-third of all cases. The oth- the other thing that we see is arguing. Arguing happened in 21% of every incident that officers were attacked. Now, so when you... the arguing on the streets is not some debate that, that happens in a courtroom. No, they're arguing because they're trying to make a decision on what to do and they're buying time. So, stop arguing back. When you see these behaviors, we've gotta do something different, Chip. These, uh, use of force incidents don't actually have to happen.
38:39

But when we hesitate and we follow the training that's coming from many academies, which is to be like Chick-fil-A no matter what we're seeing, we're giving these suspects time to actually do things. And so, I'm on a sort of a mission, as you know, at focuscertified.com to end this. We've done the most exhaustive study. We're certifying officers across the country. We have to start acting like it was 1990 again because this training used to be all throughout this profession, and it somehow disappeared. And if we don't get it back, we're gonna continue to see this violence. And I'll show, I'll prove it to you one more time that it's not working. Since 2020, every year since, officer assaults have increased. To 2024, the last year we have the data, a record high. Almost 90,000 officers assaulted. That data is actually low. About half the departments don't participate in the FBI data. And so, we're not winning this. We can talk about deescalation all we want.
39:29

We're getting attacked more than ever, so something has to be done.
39:33

No, thank you.
39:34

Well, y- y- you know, Travis, that was outstanding, uh, assessment and analysis. So, I'm gonna say this. You said 1990. I'm gonna go back to 1979 when I came on. And let me tell you something. I said this before, I'm a little guy. But let me tell you, watch body language. I was a boxer. My dad trained boxers, all right? When you see people making certain movements, you know what's coming up. They're feinting, okay? They're feinting one direction. But also, let me go to th- this shooting. Be- preceding the shooting and the assault on the officer, Rosebud, when th- the other two officers stopped Mays on the highway or freeway, right, do you notice w- how th- that suspect kept on interfering with them to pat him down? He continually interfered with them. That would have never happened with Chuck, you and I, Rich and Frankie and Chip on the streets. I'm telling you right now, I would have never let anybody take control of me, what I'm gonna do, 'cause he who hesitates, loses.
40:33

So, guess what? The... he leaves. This, when he got se- stopped the second time and he came out of that, he knew exactly what he was doing. He knew exactly what he was doing. And I know this. If all of us on the screen here, we would have never let him out. I would have been out of that car when I pu- when he was sitting there. I don't mean to disparage Officer Rosebud, but guess what? Get out of the car. You don't have to be in the car saying, "I'm stopping the Jeep. No license plate," and this and that. Get out of the car because he's watching you, the suspect. You're still sitting your butt in that seat. He's analyzing the lack of assertiveness, not getting out of the car. And I hate to disparage, but all the audience, young officers, you have to understand, my heart is with you. You have to show assertiveness in your body language because if you don't, they're gonna take advantage of you.
41:29

Beautiful. All right. We got Rich Tierrapoli, Frank Loveridge, and, uh, we got a lot of open mic guys, and, uh, and Chuck Springer. So, guys, go ahead.
41:38

Yeah. You know, I, I'm not gonna beat a, a dead, you know, bush here with what's already been discussed. Um, I, I don't know what's going on these days. I see guys driving around with their windows rolled all the way up. You're not even gonna hear the gunfire, right, till the rounds are coming through your window. Right? You can't hear people s- you know, crying for help. You know, we rolled, at least, you know, it could be torrential downpour and we at least had the windows down a few inches, so we could hear sirens, you can hear what's going on around you. Um, yeah. And, and the car, get out of that gosh darn car, guys. And especially, I don't thi- I don't think he even had his door open. And, and this guy gets out of the car, and he's almost at the front of the cruiser before this guy starts to get out. You should have been out of there lickety-split the minute that door came open. Um, you know, the, the OIS, we'll see what happens.
42:34

I, I know at one point, uh, he says once the guys get there... You know, first of all, he, it seems like he turns his back on the guy after he shoots him. Right? You know, what are you doing? Um, I couldn't tell if the guy was chasing him or he was chasing the guy. Um, so yeah, uh, you could have done a little, you know, you, you're, you're punched in the face, so you're a little wily there at that point. I, I get it. Um, but as far as anything leading up to that, you, you just gotta get out of that car.
43:04

All right. Rich, you got 14 seconds.
43:07

Well, I think the whole thing, it comes down to the mentality that all these new cops are being trained for, deescalation and social work. You know, you've gotten away from the fact, you're a cop. You've got one of two decisions. Either walk away and don't get involved, or put yourself in a cop's mindset and lock this guy up. You don't just sit there and let this guy lay hands on you. But that's what's being taught in these academies.
43:31

Yeah, gotta go hands-on. And, and you know, I always have to remember or, or think about, you know, we know... look, taser, great tool, but it, it... the downside of the taser is that... I'm getting background guys, uh, background noise. Guys, help me out. Um, but with the taser, it's, it's got a lot of guys that are not going hands-on. And, uh, and... but the glove from Compliant Technologies, it's, it's allowing people to get that, that confidence back, and it's forcing guys to go hand-on. Um, with the glove and the sucker punch, if, if you w- if you were Travis Yates, you knew what was coming, you would have gone hands-on and the glove would have been a great tool. Even for, you know, for smaller officers or females and whatever. But hey, another great show. Thank you guys so much for being on. I wanna mention the windowblue, the windowblue.org. Thank you so much, Dr.
44:13

Travis Yates, Chief Rob Ornelas, Lieutenant Chuck Springer, Rich Tierrapoli, and Frank Loveridge from the Secret Service. Guys, I want to mention our sponsors as well, golis.com, complianttechnologies.com, Gunlearn, my Medicare safeguard recruiting, and twobells.com. And we'll see you guys back Monday, 12 noon Eastern. (rock music plays)