00:00

Speaker 1
(heavy metal guitar music plays) Welcome to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host, and we're a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And let me introduce, uh, Dr. Joel Schultz to you, retired police chief. Gonna be very important for some of the stories that we have today, so, uh, welcome back to the show, uh, Dr. Schultz. I'm glad you signed on early too. Less things for me to have to worry about on, on my first day back from St. Augustine, so thank you so much. Um, a shout-out to our sponsors, guys. You know, we have our title sponsor, Golis at golis.com. We also have compliantetechnologies.com, our satellite sponsor, and yes, we've been on satellite radio since Cinco de Mayo, May the 5th, last year.

00:49

Speaker 1
Also, we have gunlearn.com, mymedicare.live, safeguardrecruiting.com, our streaming sponsor, and you know, not only does Safeguard Recruiting help you recruit officers for your agency and retain them, uh, but we also, um, they're also our streaming sponsor, allowing us to stream to about a million followers on social media during the live show. And twobells.com, they built their new online store at leoroundtable.com, so i- if you go to our website, upper right corner, we have our online store. You can get cool shirts like the one I'm wearing or the coffee mug behind me. Uh, check those out. Um, we've also got, uh, Brian Burns from the Tampa Free Press that carries our content, so thank you and a shout-out to Brian Burns. Ray Detrick with formerlawman.com and also Travis Yates with lawofficer.com. Thanks to all those entities for helping make this show happen.

01:33

Speaker 1
And, and now guys, um, you know, we're gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna wait to announce the stories that we're gonna be talking about, and I wanna start off with the, uh, and I'm gonna do this a little bit out of order. I'm gonna start off, um, with some of the stories, but I'm gonna take them out of order because the ... just out of respect, uh, for the school shooting, I think that we should talk about that one first, and also, uh, Chief Schultz, um, was a chief, you know, at a, um, at a, uh, at a, uh, at a university. So newsbreak.com. We have school shooting leaves, uh, a teacher, three students dead, and 20 others injured. Suspect is believed to be an eighth grader. You heard that correctly. Yeah. Now this is, uh, this is in Turkey, the country, uh, but this, uh, devastating shooting, I'm not gonna give the name of the bad guy even though he's, you know, an eighth grader, um, and it is at the Acar Kalac Middle School. It left four people dead, 20 injured, um, on Wednesday.

02:25

Speaker 1
It's the second instance of campus gun violence in Turkey within 48 hours. Wow, I didn't know that they had that kind of a problem. The sca- casualties included three students, one teacher, and the governor, um, confirmed that four of the 20 injured remain in critical condition. Wow. And they're currently undergoing emergency surgery, all from an eighth grader. And the incident started Wednesday morning when a suspect identified as an eighth grade student at the school, he opened fire, um, in the schoolyard. And, and i- and I don't even know that it says really, "he". I'm just, you know, the student. It could have been a girl, uh, but, uh, it says that, um, that student opened fire in the schoolyard before moving into the building. Pretty mobile shooter. Um, authorities report the gunman entered the two, uh, two separate classrooms, fired indiscriminately at occupants. Um, the shooter, the eighth grader, was also killed during the incident.

03:13

Speaker 1
Investigative lease- leads suggest that the suspect was the son, and this is where it gets really even ... It ... I mean, you, you hear the story and think, "How could this get any worse?" It's about to. He is the son, according to this article, of a former police officer. He allegedly accessed his father's arsenal of weapons to carry out the attack. He entered the campus with a backpack containing five firearms and seven magazines. Wow. That, that's, that is horrible. I can only ... I mean, I, and then I can only imagine what Dad's going through. So it is the, uh, uh, Kamalmaraş shooting. Uh, this is the area that it's in, in Şanlıurfa. Um, it, uh, follows a similar tragedy that happened on Tuesday in Şanlıurfa. Uh, in that incident, the shooter, um, I'm not gonna give his name, wounded 16 people at a vocational and technical high school before he took his own life.

04:08

Speaker 1
And this rapid succession of school shootings, really all over the, all over the world, really, has ignited a national conversation regarding firearm accessibility and campus security across Turkey. And it says local authorities have not yet released a motive for Wednesday's massacre, but, uh, but wow, the two of these back-to-back within about a, a, uh, a 24-hour period. Wow. Chief Schultz

04:34

Speaker 2
Yeah. One of the things that we know, um, about school shootings and about church shootings, uh, as well, is that, uh, sometimes the attacks begin in the parking lot outside of the school as this one did, and often there are signs outside of the school. So a lot of times our security is on the inside of the perimeter of the building and our security staff is in the inside of the perimeter of the building, but, uh, the warning signs are often out in the parking lot, and, and they get, they get, uh, missed. And I don't know what kind of stuff they've got, uh, you know, in terms of, uh, school safety and shooting. I do know that Turkey has, ironically, uh, very strict licensing for firearm arms ownership. There's, uh, is extensive background, uh, checks required and, uh, levels of different types of licensing. So if you're gonna carry outside the home, you have to get a special permit in addition to the, uh, permit and registration to have the firearm in the first place.

05:38

Speaker 2
Um, and those aren't granted just on request. They're, they're only granted if you show that you've got some kind of, of security need. And, um, th- the one thing we know, again, ironically, that firearms crimes are going up in the nation of Turkey, and it has, um, I don't know about always, but it has, uh, it, it is an arms trafficking center just because of its geography and the, and the politics, um-They, uh ... A- and they are cracking down on, uh, internet posting. 160 people were detained over internet postings about this particular event. And so, they're, they're cracking down on s- free speech, they're cracking down on, on firearms, um, eh, even though 90% of the weapons are still unlicensed. So just, those are a few statistics that I'm throwing out there.

06:35

Speaker 2
Um, if, if there was ever a n- this doesn't need to be a gun control debate, you know, to, to devolve into that, but if, if there were a, if there were a, a law or statute here in the United States that could be directly connected to a reduction in violence and still preserve, uh, citizens' Second Amendment rights, I would be in favor of it. But I, I haven't seen one yet that really promises effectiveness. It's usually an emotional reaction. It's based on anomalous events. Um, it's, it's a, uh, uh, you know, just a knee-jerk reaction that, oh, we need more gun laws. Uh, well, Turkey's got 'em and it certainly didn't prevent the last two, uh, mass casualty incidents.

07:21

Speaker 1
Yeah. That is, uh, that is something. Uh, but of course, I guess, you know, dad being a cop and I guess there's questions about, I don't know, what the laws are about storage of weapons and, and, you know, other family members having access and stuff. But I mean, for an eighth grader doing that much damage and moving around not sta- not being stationary, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's ... I'm, I'm, I'm, I mean, I'm pretty surprised that, uh, you know, that's, that's more damage than what usually happens when we have it here in the States with, with much older people.

07:54

Speaker 2
Yeah. And, and that kid, you know, at that age, uh, to be that prepared, I mean, it, it ... He looked like he was, you know, in, in for the, uh, for the duration with that amount of, uh, ammunition and preparation. And, and who knows what he may have learned from, you know, being a cop's kid. I don't know if that's, you know, different in, in Europe than it is in, uh, or that part of the world than, than it is here in, in America. Um, my kids are not gun enthusiasts and, and, uh, you know, we ...

08:23

Speaker 2
And, and I'm not a gun nut per se, but I've-

08:26

Speaker 1
(laughs)

08:26

Speaker 2
I don't tell anybody, but I've got plenty. Uh, and I've carried one for, you know, almost a half a decade. Um, so I, you know, that connection, I don't know. And, and it is, uh, I'm surprised that they would describe that as, as an arsenal, um-

08:41

Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I got-

08:41

Speaker 2
... implying lots of weapons and a lot of-

08:43

Speaker 1
I gotta cor-

08:43

Speaker 2
... different weapons.

08:44

Speaker 1
I gotta correct ... I think I have a correction here, Chief. And, uh, I'm gonna go out on a limb and I'm assuming ... You said for nearly half a decade. I'm assuming you meant another, another word instead of decade.

08:57

Speaker 2
Oh. Oh, yeah. Half a century. You're right.

08:59

Speaker 1
Yeah.

08:59

Speaker 2
You're right. You're right. (laughs)

09:00

Speaker 1
Oh, I'm just-

09:00

Speaker 2
(laughs)

09:00

Speaker 1
I'm just going out on a limb there. I'm going out on a limb. I know. Uh, I didn't wanna offend you-

09:05

Speaker 2
No.

09:05

Speaker 1
... but yeah. (laughs)

09:06

Speaker 2
You, you would never let somebody on the show with five years experience, so ...

09:10

Speaker 1
(laughs) Or hey, you know, I've had a c- I've had a cop, I've had cops before that, that, that don't like to carry. Um, it, it, and it, it, it drive, it drives me crazy, especially knowing what we know and what we cover on the show and stuff. I've had guys that are 30-year officers that just, when they, they just, wherever they go, they, they just don't want, they just don't ... not interested in carrying. And, and you have the, the capability of carrying under LEOSA, you know, the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act. So, um, um, so no, I'm glad to hear that. I, I, I, I love more good guys with guns, you know.

09:38

Speaker 2
I would love not to carry, but I, I just, um, I had the superstition that, uh, w- that the one time I don't, that's when something's gonna go down that I could have intervened in. Uh-

09:50

Speaker 1
Yeah.

09:51

Speaker 2
... so it, it's almost, uh, as much superstition as it is training. I don't wanna be caught, uh, without the ability to help you. I mean, I still, um, I, I always wear a belt because I wanna have some type of restraint device or even a, a tourniquet, although I, you know, of course, I've got a good kit in my car. Um, and I, and I always wear lace-up shoes. I don't wear flip-flops. I don't wear slip-ins. I wanna be able to chase somebody. I don't know if I could at this point (laughs) in my, uh, in my life, but I, I wanna be prepared to react as long as I'm physically and mentally able to.

10:23

Speaker 1
Yeah. Have you ever had that instance where you've just left the house, you're probably with the wife like I am, and we've left the house and we're ... I mean, if I'm close to the house and I realize, crap, you know, I, I don't have my gun, we gotta go back. But sometimes it happens to where, it's rare, but you're, you're too far to go back, you've gotta, you've gotta be somewhere and I'm, I'm going without my gun. And it, it literally, it weighs on me the entire, the entire evening. It happen, uh, you know, whenever I walk out, I do three taps. You know, I, it, it ... And I do it in the, in the, in the, in the order. You know, it is, uh, my gun, my phone and my badge, you know, in my, uh, you know, in my back pocket. I just make sure that I can, when I just touch very quickly, make sure I have all three in place and that normally gets me through, uh, that, that, that ... it's almost foolproof where I'm not gonna leave whatever I need to. Because I mean, I'll ...

11:09

Speaker 1
You know, when I was active I don't really have to carry a badge anywhere I go. I always carried a gun, never carried a badge with me. I had it back in the car or if something ever went down. But today, but being retired, I gotta carry, I gotta carry the badge and the ID with me. So, um, but yeah, um, but it's still every once in a while I'll, I'll screw up.

11:26

Speaker 2
I, I've shown up at briefing without a gun, but that's another story.

11:30

Speaker 1
Well, we had a, uh, we had a cop show up at roll call without the gun in his holster 'cause his, uh, his, uh, wife, who was a convicted felon we found out, had pawned his duty pistol.

11:40

Speaker 2
(laughs)

11:40

Speaker 1
And, uh, oh, yeah.

11:41

Speaker 2
That's, that's not-

11:42

Speaker 1
Hey, we're down to 24-

11:42

Speaker 2
... my story. (laughs)

11:43

Speaker 1
Yeah. Hey, uh, Lawrence, uh, Fiddich. Uh, he is from Lorain County Sheriff's Office. Uh, he was there 24 years in Lorain, Ohio. So welcome to the show. Thanks for finding us. We got our first commercial break. Stick with us, guys. We're gonna be talking about Galls. We'll be right back. (instrumental music plays) My family only cares about one thing, that I come home safe.

12:04

Speaker 3
At Galls, every order begins with a promise. Made with purpose.

12:14

Speaker 4
Stitched for support. Back with pride. Answered by dedicated hands. Delivering the standard you have sworn to uphold.

12:39

Speaker 3
We serve more than the mission, we serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safe.

12:56

Speaker 1
Welcome back. LEO Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. The Law Enforcement Talk Show. My name is Chip DeBlanc and I'm your host. We're joined by Dr. Joel Schultz, former police chief, and we're talking about a, a, a, unfortunately, a mass shooting by an eighth grader. Uh, m- man, we had a lot of damage done. Son of a police officer, reportedly, and used his dad's arsenal. Uh, took it on the campus in a backpack, uh, to do this stuff and, uh, yeah, a, a lot of, uh, a lot of people, uh, dead and injured, so, um, final words on this thing, Chief?

13:28

Speaker 2
Well, just remember, as far as the US activities go, April is a deadly month. It's, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's Waco, it's Oklahoma City, it's Columbine's anniversary is today. Um, just a, a lot of wild stuff happens. We need to really have our, our eyes open in, i- i- is- in law enforcement, um, uh, in April. There's just a lot of things that are, that are happening. And as, uh, school, at least m- m- in America, school is starting to end. Um, the beginning of the year and the end of the year are peak times for, uh, violence in schools. And so, uh, just, just a heads-up to the cops out there.

14:08

Speaker 1
Thanks. Thank you. Now, I'm gonna hold up a drink here. This is called Bulkhead, it's an energy drink that I'm drinking today. Now, one of our, uh, listeners, MVS in Colorado, he sent this, uh, a case of this, uh, to me. And so this is what I'm drinking today and it's pretty good, so... And they are, uh, they support first responders. So, you know, we've been trying to get a, a, uh, a drink sponsor on the show and it, it, it unfortunately did not work out with, uh, Black Rifle. Um, I thought it would, it would've been pretty cool. And we offered them an opportunity to be on the show and everything, not asking for any money or anything in sponsorship, just some product that we can use to advertise for them, but they weren't interested (laughs) for whatever reason, so that opportunity will not present itself again to them. So, um, anyhow, this is, uh, this is some good stuff. So thanks, uh, to, uh, MVS for the Bulkhead. You...

14:55

Speaker 1
And hey, if you want one of these little coolies here, uh, yeah, you can get that at the, uh, at the online store as well that was built by Two Bills. So, um, really good-

15:03

Speaker 2
You know, and, and-

15:04

Speaker 1
Go ahead.

15:05

Speaker 2
... MVS, uh, graciously sent me some, uh, Black Rifle coffee a while back and I assumed it was gonna be a charity subscription, I'd get a couple of bags every month, but-

15:13

Speaker 1
(laughs)

15:14

Speaker 2
... but, it, he, he cut me off.

15:16

Speaker 1
Well, you know, we, we gotta find a sponsor. Look, I know I like, you know, I like good energy drinks, um, and we used to be sponsored by Bang Energy. I mean, for a couple years or so before they got taken over by Monster, we, you know, they were our sponsor. But, you know, I, I pret-... I, I... The, the gang, the, the, um, the gang. The, um, the Bang girls, and sometimes dudes, in a Jeep, would roll up here and they'd just unload cases and cases of the stuff. And I would have to, like, meet people that are on the show locally. I couldn't do that for people out, you know, like where you're at in Colorado, I couldn't do, but people that are here close by in Florida, I'd distribute it and then I'd send swag out to people like, you know, a, you know, a, a hat or something like that then but it, but it would be, it would be best if we had a coffee and energy drink company.

15:58

Speaker 1
That would be the best because, you know, it, it'd be e- easier to get people the product, you know, instead of having to ship, you know, heavy energy drinks across the country. So I'm working on it.

16:06

Speaker 2
Well, you know, Trump's, Trump's son is, is, uh, has started a soft drink company. You might, you might check with him.

16:12

Speaker 1
Trump's, Trump's son?

16:14

Speaker 2
Yeah. The big, tall, young guy.

16:16

Speaker 1
Oh, uh, Barron?

16:17

Speaker 2
Yeah, Barron. Yeah.

16:19

Speaker 1
Seriously?

16:19

Speaker 2
He, he started a soft drink company. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

16:22

Speaker 1
Well, uh, yeah. I tell you, I am, I'm impressed with that young man.

16:26

Speaker 2
I'm sure you've got-

16:26

Speaker 1
That young man-

16:26

Speaker 2
I'm sure you've got, you've got GA, uh, d- uh, DJ on, uh, speed dial. You could, you could ask him how to get in touch with Barron.

16:32

Speaker 1
Yeah. I'll, I'll see what I can do. All right. Hey, that's, that's a good idea. Hey, um, if you're, if you're ready, let's, let's, uh, let's go on and jump to our... We have two main stories for you guys. And so let's jump to the f- so this is really the first one, but we're covering a second. This is from foxnews.com. We have a, this (laughs) , this story I should not be surprised, we're gonna spend some time talking about this. And, and, and we knew it was coming. Here you go. Minnesota prosecutor charges ICE agent in a gun incident as Savannah Hernandez case remains uncharged. And so Savannah Hernandez, of course, is the reporter that works for Turning Point USA. And, and, and, and, and what happened to her was just horrific and there's been no charges on that. However, they have not, they, they've taken the opportunity, the state of Minnesota and their AG is filing charges against a federal agent that was in there. So we knew they wanted to do it. They wanted there to be...

17:27

Speaker 1
Remember they were, uh, complaining chief about we weren't letting them in on our investigations. This is kind of the reason why, 'cause stuff like this can happen. I- it makes me wonder, I have a lot of questions over how they were able to do an investigation. But it starts off, the article, and I've got a little under three minutes before we take our second commercial break. But a US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent, so an ICE agent, is facing felony, felony charges in Minnesota, um, after a prosecutor said that he pointed a gun at two people during a highway confrontation. So of course, this is a federal agent so he has federal jurisdiction and he, uh, this is the state of Minnesota, um, that's filing these charges on him, not elsewhere. Although, we'll talk about the warrant that's going out for his arrest. Uh, this comes as no charges have been filed in the separate attack on Turning Point USA reporter, Savannah Hernandez.

18:11

Speaker 1
So, so they're, they're, they're kind of showing that there is a, um-You know, there are some problems with the ... You know, they're willing to, they, they wanna, they're, they're more likely or have more interest in prosecuting the ICE agent than they do, um, people that are, are doing bad things to people that represent Turning Point USA. So Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty, uh, she announced charges on Thursday against this ICE agent, Gregory Donald Morgan, Jr. It's tied to a February 5th incident on Highway 62 in Minneapolis as part of the broader Operation Metro Surge operation, and that's a crackdown, of course, that went down within the Twin Cities. So, uh, Agent Morgan sped up, pulled alongside the vehicle. This is what Mer- uh, Mary's saying, or D- the DA over there. He pulled alongside a vehicle, matching speed, opened his window, and pointed his duty weapon directly at both victims according to the, the ...

18:58

Speaker 1
Well, she's the county attorney, um, is what she's listed as during the press conference. So she doesn't really say a lot of what happened prior to that. This is just the, the inflammatory message, in my opinion, that she's putting out there. According to a criminal complaint, the incident unfolded around 4:20 in the afternoon near Interstate 35 West. Um, the interchange's traffic was slowing down to a single lane. The prosecutor said that Agent Morgan was driving on the shoulder to bypass congestion before pulling alongside the victims and pointing a handgun at their heads. Now, this makes absolutely no sense to me. There, there's gotta be information being left out, right? Investigators said that Agent Morgan was driving a rented SUV. There were no markings identifying it as a federal vehicle. Well, it's a rented car, so I wouldn't expect so and plus, with all the doxxing crap going on, we know that they're getting more done in, in cool cars.

19:43

Speaker 1
Both victims, the ones that had the gun pointed at them, said that they felt threatened by his actions according to the complaint. The investigators said that Agent Morgan was not responding to an emergency at the time, like that's a big deal. They told authorities that he's headed back to the Whipple Federal Building to end his shift and get gas, so he was still on duty. So I'm gonna go on and leave it there and start the, uh, the outro music for our s- our second commercial break. Uh, there's a lot more coming up. We're gonna have a lot to talk about on this so, guys, we want you to be the sm- among the smartest people in the room when it comes to covering stuff like this and talking about it with your family, friends, and loved ones. So, hey, you're gonna be on it today. Stay tuned with us. We'll be right back. Hi, guys.

20:21

Speaker 1
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21:03

Speaker 1
So stay ahead of the game with Compliant Technologies and the revolutionary CD3 that hundreds of agencies have already turned to nationwide. And, friends, take it from me, when it comes to safety, this is one of the most hands-on, I'll tell you, m- commonsense approaches has ever come along. Go to complianttechnologies.com today, tell them that Chip sent you. Again, complianttechnologies.com. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host. We're joined by Dr. Joel Schultz, retired police chief, and we've been talking about Minnesota prosecutor charges ICE agent in a gun incident as Savannah Hernandez case remains uncharged. And so, yeah, in Minnesota, uh, we've got, uh, we've got the county attorney, Mary Moriarty, uh, she's charging this ICE agent. So we've got a county attorney in Hennepin County charging an, a federal agent for what happened in Minneapolis. It's, it's, it's the craziest thing.

21:56

Speaker 1
The investigators said that the Agent Morgan, he's driving a rented SUV, no markings identifying it as a federal vehicle. Um, both victims said that they felt threatened by his actions and that he pulled up along, you know, asi- beside them and, and pointed a gun, they say, at their heads. You know, there, there, it, it ... I see a lot of inflammatory stuff that's in there on purpose Agent Morgan told investigators, uh, you know, and, and they're getting ready to tell you what he told investigators, so that's my, that's my next question. How do they know what he told investigators? Are they d- w- ... Are they state investigators? Are they use county investigators that work for the, the, the county attorneys? I'm like highly doubtful, right? So, um, but how do they have this information, but they don't, they don't say.

22:34

Speaker 1
But they're saying that he tells investigators that he feared for his safety, yelled, "Police, stop," and believed the individuals were agitators who cut him off because he was a federal agent according to the complaint. So I'm not ... This is talking about what the agent said to justify his actions and I'm not doubting that. It's just that if they're reading this from a report that they got access to, I doubt that they were allowed to question the agent and, and, and get answers of their own is where I'm kinda going with this. So that's why, you know, they're going ... I, I think it's like a, a, a, a, a one-way funnel. You know, they're, they're, they're getting the information, but they're not able to ask questions and get anything more than what they're reading is what I suspect. Authorities have issued a nationwide warrant, so they put (laughs) a warrant out for this guy's arrest a- but, but that only matters if there, if you're, if, if it, if they'll extradite, right?

23:19

Speaker 1
But author- ... They've issued a nationwide warrant, that's a pucker factor, for Agent Morgan's arrest. He faces two counts of second-degree assault, each punishable by up to seven years in prison each. Um, bail was set at $100,000 with conditions including no possession of weapons and compliance with all court appearances, so he'll be out of a job if, if they end up, you know, arresting him for this. The, uh, county attorney said that the case mo- moved more quickly than other investigations tied to Operation Metro Surge because ... Here's what she's ... This is, this is another flag. Authorities were able to complete their work without obstruction or interference. All right. That's why we don't want them involved. Today's charges reflect an important milestone in our efforts to seek accountability according to, uh, Moriarty, uh, said that according to her office it's continuing to investigate more than a dozen other incidents involving other federal agents.

24:07

Speaker 1
Prosecutors are also reviewing whether to file charges against the individuals accused of assaulting Hernandez during the ICE protest outside the Whipple Federal building, building that happened last weekend. Of course, that's our Turning Point USA, uh, reporter, uh, which is another story in and of itself. Uh, Chief Schultz, what, what are your thoughts on this

24:25

Speaker 2
Well, when I read the, uh, uh, this article and others like it, um, I have to practice, uh, combat breathing. So I breathe in through my nose for a count of four, I hold it for a count of four, and breathe out to a count of four, and then do that four times. Because my blood pressure and pulse rate escalate when I read about these, uh, persecutors. Um, first of all, I, I don't... yeah, I agree with your red flag. "Oh, we, we were able to do this investigation without interference." Like, interference with the fact, uh, witnesses-

25:00

Speaker 1
(laughs)

25:01

Speaker 2
... interrogation, those kind of interferences. Um, and I... you know, and this, this may be a, a legit case. This may be a golden case. They might be able to make a case on this, on this agent. I don't know. But I do not believe the narrative for one second, coming out of these reports and coming out of this prosecutor's, this persecutor's, um, mouth. And you have to wonder with, um, you know, the, the Hernandez case, who was... you know, just about took a beating from these, um, peaceful, um, protestors. Um, what other cases are being ignored? I mean, you've gotta devote personnel and time and staffing and, and resources, uh, to go after this unique brand of crime allegedly committed by federal officers during this operation, where they took hundreds of criminals, uh, off of the streets in, in, uh, in, in that city and that, that state. Um, I, I would like to see th- the, the manpower, uh...

26:04

Speaker 2
the, the record of manpower di- being devoted to organized crime, to hate crime, to property crime, uh, to sexual assault, to, uh, other violent crimes. What's being left behind so that these persecutors can, um, can, uh, d- devote themselves to this political agenda of looking like they're standing up for the freedom of, of, uh, their citizens when they are actually just perpetuating, um, uh, less safety and, and, and more criminal activity by trying to suppress federal law enforcement?

26:38

Speaker 1
You know, I, um... this is major. Uh, and she's getting some flak. I, I, I, I, I saw very recently that she's getting some flak back on this. I don't remember saying it when I, when I was going over the story a, a, a minute ago, so let me just get this out there that the word is that the, uh, th- these guys that the agent ended up allegedly pointing his gun at and stuff, that they were running him off the road and stuff, and that he thought that they were after him because they, they... you know, these guys have been going around and, and trying to profile what they think are, like, ICE agents or border patrol agents and stuff.

27:13

Speaker 1
And I just find it amazing that, you know, the, uh-

27:15

Speaker 2
(coughs)

27:15

Speaker 1
... Minneapolis Police Department, you know, they are, they're understaffed so they're not allowed to, uh, you know, to go out and do crowd control or deal with protesters and stuff, and so ICE has historically had to roll in there. And this is, this is something old that happened previously, right? But ICE has got to roll in there and use, like, border patrol and stuff to do, like, crowd control. This is the job of the police department. But God forbid if there's a shooting or something. All of a sudden, suddenly the manpower exists to be able to send them out there on the scene and start shutting things down, seizing evidence, and trying to do an investiga- trying to do something against a fed, you know, a federal agent. And, and so don't think that people don't notice that.

27:54

Speaker 1
And I also wanna lastly mention the fact that because of this whole incident in Minneapolis, um, when I was at SHOT Show in January and talking to, you know, panelist Brett Bartlett, uh, decided that, hey, I'm gonna relaunch Leo Affairs. And Leo Affairs is up and running. It's leoaffairs.ch. That just means it's being hosted in the Switzerland-Sweden area for privacy. That means that no one can subpoena and get your records. And if you go to leoaffairs.ch, you'll see a Minneapolis and a border patrol and an ICE, uh, form on there where we're talking about all this stuff. So if you work for ICE, you work for border patrol, um, or you work for Minneapolis or St. Paul and you want to weigh in on this and you wanted to do it so there's no fear of repercussion from your agency, that exists. You've already got it. Leoaffairs.ch. Uh, we just relaunched it and, uh, and we're doing, we're doing this for you guys. Chief?

28:48

Speaker 2
You know, the, the dehumanization of, um, a certain class of people, uh... and, and some of this has happened with immigration. We started, you know, uh, wrongly labeling all, uh, non-US citizens as, as, uh, evil and, and wicked. So I... you know, we need to be careful about that. Um, but, but the left has so demonized ICE that what would seem to be a normal citizen feels like they are justified in doing bodily harm, uh, to ICE agents because th- they, they feel a certain sense of, of righteousness and, um, enlightenment, uh, to, to do harm to these, uh, agents that are, are just out there trying to enforce the law. I think your, your Leo Affairs... I was thinking about that, um, about this, uh, uh, North Royalton, Ohio case where the cops are being, uh, uh, prosecuted, uh, or disciplined for releasing internal records.

29:53

Speaker 1
Yeah.

29:53

Speaker 2
That would have been a perfect venue. That would have been a perfect venue for Leo Affairs for them to get that out there.

29:57

Speaker 1
Ah, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're probably right. Um, you know, and, and that was a good segue, uh, Chief, actually. We could, we could just roll right over into that one. So, if there's no more comments on, on this story, Minneapolis guys, uh, hey, uh, let's, let's get this thing active. I started this mostly for what's going on in Minneapolis, um, you know, St Paul area, and I really believe ... And, and Randy Sutton went out there after some of the stuff went on. In fact, during SHOT Show in that week in January, the 18th to, like, the 23rd or whatever, Randy Sut- was there talking. He knows that you guys wanna do the right thing, you're just being r- held back. And, uh, and I'm sure the union, the federation feels the same way. So, we're trying to help you guys, trying to change the stuff as well.

30:38

Speaker 5
(clears throat)

30:38

Speaker 1
So let's, uh, let's make it happen. Uh, you know, guys, we do ... The, the, uh, the story that the Chief was just talking about, wkyc.com, North Royalton, fires an officer who filed a whistleblower complaint against a top, against top police brass. You know, I'm gonna go through the story real quickly, but there's a backstory here too that, that we're gonna touch on. When you hear the backstory you're gonna go, "Oh my gosh." I- i- you know, we're gonna go down the rabbit hole a little bit. So, North Royalton, Ohio. So this police department, they fired a patrol officer and demoted a sergeant after an internal investigation into the handling of confidential police records that are tied to a 2020 traffic stop. It also sparked a whistleblower complaint. Now, police said in the pl- press release that this patrolman, we're gonna call him Officer Spencer Lowe, um, he's been terminated. So he's been fired. And a sergeant, FloAnn Rybicki, uh, has been demoted.

31:24

Speaker 1
In fact, I think she was demoted from sergeant all the way down to officer involving confidential records and supervisory responsibility. So, in a statement, the department said that the officer, Lowe, improperly obtained and disseminated confidential information, uh, or confidential department records outside authorized department channels, adding that the records, uh, must only be accessed and released through approved procedures. So they're saying that he violated that. And then investigators also found the sergeant, Rybicki, accessed department systems, printed confidential records, provided those materials to the patrolman, Lowe, without authorization, outside procedures. Stick with us, this is gonna get really good, guys. We'll be right back. All right, guys. Time to talk about GunLearn at gunlearn.com.

32:04

Speaker 1
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32:48

Speaker 1
And if you have your own agency, if you're a chief or sheriff, you can actually host a seminar for absolutely no cost. It's an amazing opportunity. You go to thegunlearn.com to get more information. The founder is Dan O'Kelly. Again, that is gunlearn.com. Welcome back to LEO Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host. We're joined by Dr. Joel Schultz, former police chief, and we've been talking about the North Royalton Fires officer who filed a whistleblower complaint. Yeah, they filed the wh- (laughs) they fired the whistleblower, you would think that wouldn't happen, right, against, uh, top, uh, police brass. And so, uh, we kind of left off talking about investigators also found that the sergeant, Rybicki, this is the female that gave him the records and stuff that she violated, you know, she violated just as much as they say that he did.

33:31

Speaker 1
The discipline follows earlier action that was taken by the mayor, Larry, uh, Antos ... I can't even pronounce his last name. Apparently the mayor assigned notices of discipline on March the 16th recommending that the officer, he be terminated and that the sergeant, demoted from sergeant all the way down to officer, uh, with a two-year ban on taking promotional e- exams, I guess. They, she's not gonna have any promotional eligibility for two years. And at that time, both were placed on paid administrative leave. Now, following the news, the FOP, Fraternal Order, Order of Police, Lodge 15, they filed demands for arbitration against the City of North Royalton. And so, now we get to the good stuff. This is the backstory. You've only heard a little bit about the whistleblower, here's what really happened. The discipline is the latest chapter in a saga that actually started back on October the 11th of 2025. So really not that long ago. What, six months ago or so?

34:20

Speaker 1
The officer that got fired, Officer Lowe, he ended up pulling over the Orange Village deputy chief, Patrick O'Callaghan, so that's with a different agency, right, on Royalton Road for driving 55 in a 35 mile-an-hour zone. So, okay, that's 20 miles an hour over, but the guy's swerving out of his lane as well. So according to Officer Lowe's report, you know, the officer that got fired, Chief O'Callaghan had bloodshot eyes, they were watery, slurred speech, admitted to drinking earlier in the evening. Lowe arrested him on suspicion of OVI, discovered three firearms in his possession. Not that big of a deal, but Lowe, uh, p- the officer, um, he prepared the OVI charges, the trapping charges, along with a felony charge for improper handling of a firearm. I'm not sure what that, that was about.

35:04

Speaker 1
Days later, Officer Lowe claimed that the North Royalton Police Chief, Keith Terris, this is the officer's supervisor, his own chief, not with the other agency that the, uh, that the, you know, the sheriff was with, that he directed a lieutenant named Jim Cutler to delete the felony charge from the department's Sundance Records management system.

35:24

Speaker 5
(coughs)

35:24

Speaker 1
In October the 15th, Lowe, uh, the officer, emailed the mayor. He invoked a whistleblower statute alleging that the deletions constituted tampering with records and tampering with evidence. Two days later, the union attorney, Brian Smith, filed a formal whistleblower complaint with the Cuyahoga County, uh, prosecutor, uh, office, the, Michael O'Malley is the name of the prosecutor. An independent investigation was conducted by Cleveland attorney James Hofelch. It actually cleared the chief and the lieutenant of wrongdoing, who got rid of the felony charge. Finally, they acted within their authority when they removed the felony charge at the direction of the city prosecutor, who determined the charge was improper and without support. The FOP rejected the findings. They said it was a paid defense of the administration.

36:06

Speaker 1
Now, the chief, who abruptly retired from the Orange Village Police Department, so the officer that got fired, his boss, um, three weeks, uh, well, he reti- ended up retiring. He ultimately pled t-Ahh, um... Okay, I got that back, sorry. The chief who ended up getting, getting charged with the, with the drinking. Uh, three weeks after his arrest, he plead no contest to the OVI charge, and he was still convicted. He received a suspended jail sentence, was ordered to undergo an alcohol treatment program. No criminal charges were filed against the other chief, the one that fixed the charges with the lieutenant. The Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office and the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation and the FBI, they were all notified about this and they didn't want to get involved in this at all. So we'll leave it there, Chief Joel Schultz. And I know that you're privy to (laughs) a lot of those kind of stuff, so.

36:55

Speaker 2
(laughs) You know, the, the cops are often accused of being, um, building this blue wall of silence so that we never snitch on each other. And we've got a couple of officers here. First of all, uh, the officer that, that stopped the, uh, commander from the other department, he could have, for his own protection and to make everybody happy except the motoring public, given this guy a ride home or ignored it or not pursued the firearms charges. But no, he believes that everybody is equal under the law and is accountable under the law, so he made an arrest of this guy, um, a brother officer, a, a high ranking officer from another agency. Uh, no professional courtesy there, just professional behavior.

37:40

Speaker 2
And then, uh, we have a- another officer, I, I think a sergeant if I got the, uh, uh, sequence of events right, um, says, you know, this favoritism of, um, taking, uh, uh, whiteout to this felony charge, to this other, uh, officer, the, the commander from the other jurisdiction is, again, a violation of the, of the essential principle of everybody being treated equally under the law and being accountable for their own behavior. So the real ethical behavior, the real ethical initial questions, uh, that had to be asked was from the sergeant and the, uh, and the officer on the street. And they made the decision, and probably technically the release of that information to the public without going through channels, that's probably a technical violation. Um, but then you, you gotta, you know... Ethics is not always black and white.

38:32

Speaker 2
Um, and so if, if I need to, uh, to violate this, um, this record-keeping procedure in order to bring to light a larger, more scandalous impropriety, then I'll do that. The, the um, the cost of honesty and the cost of treating everybody equally, um, is a threat to every police officer's job. It certainly was in my case. Um, I've been dismissed from two agencies because I wanted to treat everybody equally and operate under the constitution, and a certain level of leadership, uh, thought that, uh, I, I should be behaving differently. Um, but, but for chiefs and for officers, you gotta ask the question, am I willing to lose my job to do the right thing, um, th- that's fitting with my calling? And that doesn't just mean, um, you know, that, that might mean not having a salary, not being reemployable, having my, uh, family suffer, you know, having to, to, to move to another, uh, place of employment, to go without salary for a little while. So these are huge issues.

39:39

Speaker 2
I'm so glad that the union is behind this. And as I said before, Chip, um, officers need a place where they can safely report things of concern that other, um, individuals and journalists can see and start to dig in, because that's, that's a, that, that's the more effective place to, to deal with some of these improprieties. So, um-

40:03

Speaker 1
Agreed.

40:03

Speaker 2
... I hope I haven't gone off on a, on a rabbit trail here but, uh, um, th- this is a, this is a, a pervasive issue in law enforcement.

40:14

Speaker 1
Well, thank you, Chief. Um, real quick, I'm gonna try to slide in a video real quick here. We can talk about the, the 7-Eleven with Buffalo police or we can jump over to Baltimore, uh, where they're, um, you know, they're, they're, they're chasing the guy that got in a fight, you know, that had the knife and all that, so, um... And, and the guy's-

40:30

Speaker 2
Let's do-

40:30

Speaker 1
... had the taser, standing up with a taser.

40:33

Speaker 2
Oh, I want to do both of those. Can we get them in in the next minute and a half? Let's do 7-Eleven.

40:38

Speaker 1
Seven-Eleven? Okay, perfect. Yeah. We'll, we'll barely have time for that. Rumble.com, thisisbutter is the name of our favorite law enforcement video channel surveillance body cam shows Buffalo police shooting an armed suspect during a robbery at 7-Eleven. Look, I'm just going to cut to the chase. Buffalo police, these two cops roll up in the parking lot. Not... There's no, there's no armed robbery call. And the first cop walks up, he looks through the glass door, he sees a dude with his arms stretched out, he's got a gun pointed at the clerk, and that cop rolls off to the left. And, uh, the other cop, his partner that was in the passenger side of the car, he sees it and he takes cover behind the side of the, of the, of the 7-Eleven, a concrete brick building, which I expected the first cop to do which he didn't do. So at some point, the robber shoots the clerk, and, like in the leg or something, and he sees... He knows the cop's out there. He looks out the door.

41:24

Speaker 1
He fires a shot at the cop. Well, the cop, it was the first... The cop he shoots at, the first cop that walked up, instead of t- taking cover, that cop is like running through the parking lot, no cover. And, and then he, then he ends up just running with his back turned to the gunmen and he's just like screaming in the radio. He's like, in my opinion, like losing it. And then the guy, bad guy bolts out of the 7-Eleven and he runs past a second cop who's taken cover behind this, the corner of the building and that cop, um, shoots, I believe, uh... Well, the bad guy gets shot, that cop shoots at him, um, but there may have been a third cop that was a female cop that shot the bad guy.

41:59

Speaker 6
Ah! Ah! Ah! Fuck! Ah, fuck! Ah! Fuck! Ah!

42:00

Speaker 1
Shots fired. 7-Eleven prospect.

42:04

Speaker 6
Ah! Fuck! Ah! Fuck! Ah!

42:06

Speaker 4
Oh, no!

42:07

Speaker 1

Shooters, shoot over 7-Eleven prospect.

42:10

Speaker 4
Oh, shit. Oh.

42:11

Speaker 6
Ah! Fuck! Ah!

42:13

Speaker 4
I'm right here! I'm here!

42:17

Speaker 6
There's, a firefighter is coming! Ah! Ah! Ah!

42:27

Speaker 4
(slow motion gunshots) Yo!

42:38

Speaker 7
Right here, right now!

42:39

Speaker 4
Radio, bug down. He's running! He's fucking shot at us, you motherfucker! He's running south by the Prospect! Get that side of him. Inskey, get over here with me! He's still running. He's got the gun in his hand! Drop the fucking gun! Bring him over. Radio, he's running up 201! He's getting into a car! He's getting into a car and the guy's bailing out! He's ... Radio, he's carjacking the guy. Right here!

43:13

Speaker 1
Bad guy. Both cops are like losing it on the radio. And the bad guy s- carjacks somebody, drives. He drives past a female officer. He gets shot, crashes, and they go 10-15, and, and he's in the hospital. This is what we have. 20 ... We'll go a little bit over but we got basically 22 seconds. Chief Schultz?

43:32

Speaker 2
I don't want to be too critical of these, uh, cops, but I will tell you this. Uh, I haven't, I haven't carried a badge for about five or six years, and I still do not just casually walk into a convenience store, or a bank, or a grocery store without expecting that there's a robbery in progress at this place. So, uh, (laughs) you gotta always be ready.

43:54

Speaker 1
No, I, I, uh, I agree. Head on a swivel. Um, let's, uh ... What ... Any, any, uh ... We'll take about 30 more seconds here. Any, any comments on the, um, on the radio, on the radio use or, or the, uh, the, the, the ... (laughs) I couldn't understand what they were saying on the radio.

44:13

Speaker 2
Well, it was mostly effing this and effing that. Um, I, I think the, the robber was much more prepared for this encounter than the officers appeared to be. Um, and, uh, it's interesting. Sometimes you see officers that just go into a calm mood and flow, uh, and they'll be, you know, very calm and saying, "Oh, shots fired. Uh, you know, I've been hit."

44:36

Speaker 1
Right.

44:36

Speaker 2
That kind of stuff. And then you've got guys that just go nuts.

44:39

Speaker 1
We're running out ... I, I appreciate it, Chief. Running out of time. The Wounded Blue, thewoundedblue.org. Hey, support our sponsors, gulls.com, complianttechnologies.com, gunlearn.com, american.care.live, SafeCare Recruiting. Two bells, we'll see you tomorrow, 12 noon Eastern. (rock music plays)