LEO Round Table: S11E071

00:13

Speaker 1
Welcome to The Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host, and we're a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And let me introduce the crew. Guys, I hope you don't mind waiting for the video portion of our show. He's back, Captain Bret Bartlett, the founder of Exonerative Defense Solutions at exoneratedefense.com, and he makes me say this- this last part. In fact, it's so- it's so long I got to read it. It says, uh, 34... 32 years of exemplary law enforcement experience, so I think I got that right, so. Anyhow, thanks for being on the show, Bret. Hopefully I- I got- I got the little thing, the title right. We've got Dr. Daren Porcher, retired lieutenant from, uh, NYPD. Yeah, that's- that's correct. You guys might recognize him from being on CNN, Newsmax, Fox. So, uh, thanks for being on the show, Dr. Daren, as well. Hey, a shout-out to our sponsors.

00:57

Speaker 1
You know, we have our title sponsor, Golis at golis.com. We also have compliantetechnologies.com, our satellite sponsor. They get us on satellite radio back on Cinco de Mayo, May the 5th last year. We also have gunlearn.com, mymedicare.live, safeguardrecruiting.com, our streaming sponsor, and thanks to them, we're streaming to about a million followers right now during the live show. And then, twobells.com. They built a new online store at leoroundtable.com. You can go to the store and get cool gear like the mug behind me. We got shirts, we got hats, we got all kinds of stuff. I even got, uh- uh- uh, well, I bought a bunch of shirts, uh, for Bret for, uh, SHOT Shows. He never wears them, though, so I- I can't really show you those. (laughs) So- But we don't- we don't make a- a dime off of anything on the online store. We're just trying to get our gear out there, so the prices are inexpensive. So check that out.

01:40

Speaker 1
And, uh- uh, thank you to Brian Burns for The Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com. Thanks for carrying our content, Brian. Also, Ray Detrick with formerlawman.com, and our very own Travis Yates with lawofficer.com. Thanks to all those entities for helping make this show happen. And now, what in the world are we gonna be talking about today? Uh, guys, we got two main topics. The first one, I wanna start terror. We have dash, uh, cam, it catches the New York City bomb plotters planning to kill 60 people, and I'm glad we have that because we have Dr. Daren on the show today. And so, this is the latest in up- updated information in reference to that. And also, we have meet the latest trans shooter. The media, uh, will... They're ta- they- the media will memory hole by next week, but, uh, we've got a 16-year-old girl, um, that was transitioning to be a, uh- a boy and we're gonna talk about that. And also, Ron DeSantis, our governor here in Florida, pushes Florida lawmakers to ban...

02:31

Speaker 1
Now, there's gonna be a lot of upset people in Florida, mostly on Bret's side of the- of the- uh, of the- of the- uh, of the equation, but they're banning cousin marriage. So, uh, they're citing cultural concerns (laughs) , so that's a big... Yeah, this is not good for Florida. Uh, Preble police officer fatally shoots a suspect when he advances towards officers with a knife. That's interesting, especially when he starts stabbing himself. We got Woodbridge, uh, Police Sergeant. He is indicted in a shooting that he was involved in at- at last year, 2025, and the dude had a baseball bat. So we'll see what you guys think. Also, unruly kids. This is- this is called, uh, parental, uh, control. Unruly kids blast in the face with bear s- with bear spray, an Alabama mom is now facing felony charges. And then we have another one, Illinois mom faces felony charges after opening fire, but she stopped it to attack... Uh, to- uh, to stop an attack on her son.

03:21

Speaker 1
And- and- and yeah, she's going to jail. And then we have Louisville Metro Police. We have a body camera showing police fatally shooting a woman holding a glass object during a mental health crisis. She looked, I believe, broke off a part of the porcelain toilet and came out charging at police with it, so we'll get to all these as time permits. So if you guys are ready, uh, to jump to New York... All right, I get a thumbs-up from Bret. Let's do it. Um, uh, Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com. I wanna start terror, dash cam catches New York City bomb plotters planning to kill 60. So we have federal prosecutors on Tuesday released these chilling details. Um, it's a bomb plot in Manhattan during a protest revealing that these two suspects, and of course we didn't have a lot of information. Were they working? Do they know each other? Did they just hook up when they got there? So these two guys caught, um, on their own dash cam describing a plan to kill dozens of people, and guess what?

04:14

Speaker 1
They h- they did have a backup plan. So the newly released indictment shows that the... And I- I don't like to give... These guys are seeking attention, so I don't like to give out the names necessarily in these, so I'm just gonna mention the 18-year-old or the 19-year-old. They were recorded discussing how to maximize casualties, uh, just moments before the attack failed at- at the home of Mayor Zarran Mamdani. Uh, so this is... It happened in his- in his- uh, in his back door. Um, the incident occurred on March the 7th during anti-Islam de- demonstration. The prosecutor say that these two guys traveled from Pennsylvania to New York. They threw two homemade explosive devices into the crowd. Now, the bombs contained shrapnel and they had the explosive TATP, but they failed the detonate, thank God, and then both men, thank God, were t- immediately taken into custody. They recovered dash cam audio 'cause they, you know, they hit the car and did a warrant on that.

05:05

Speaker 1
They captured raw blunt exchange between the teenagers about their motivations, and one said that, um, that he was tell- he wanted to target the government and civilians, and responded by the other one saying, "Hey, all I know is that I wanna start terror, bro." And then they have audio recordings and they found a notebook inside the vehicle th- and saying that they had a backup plan if the bombs failed. The pair reportedly had scouted locations for, uh, a vehicle ramming. They wanted to take their vehicle and- and do a ramming attack. They were looking at parades and festivals and other large, uh, public celebrations. Uh, one of the guys calculated the death toll could be between eight to 16 people or as many as 60 if they were sufficiently crowded, and he said, "Hey, I'm gonna say, 'Three, two, one,' and then I'm gonna take it out, the bomb, as fast as I can in a controlled manner," and they were rehearsing how they were gonna deploy the explosives.

05:51

Speaker 1
And then he said, "Hey, if our preliminary plan fails, we'll just start attacking police and throw the explosive device in- in a café." Crazy stuff. The suspects previously told police that they were inspired by ISIS, and they're currently being held without bail. They face several federal charges including use of a weapon of mass destruction, attempting to provide mu- material support to a foreign terrorist organization, which would, of course, be ISIS, and that's- and that's what we have.

06:15

Speaker 1
Daren, do you mind going on-

06:16

Speaker 2
Yeah, this is go-

06:16

Speaker 1
... first on this?

06:17

Speaker 2
Yeah. No, this is- this is absolutely absurd. Um-I actually provided a series of commentary as it relates to this incident. We had two teenagers that didn't have criminal, um, backgrounds. They drove here to the City of New York from Pennsylvania, and this is an ISIS-inspired threat, but it really highlights the, uh, the component of a soft target here in New York. New York City is the largest, uh, city in the, uh, in the United States with eight-and-a-half million people. So, just based on the detonation of these rudimentary, um, IEDs that the two, um, individuals had, it would send shockwaves through our country as it relates to establishing, um, I, I want to say putting ISIS on the front page as the premier threat that we need to look, look, um, to, to, to fortify ourselves against as Americans. Um, one side of it, you may argue is clickbait. The other side is this is a, a significant threat that can pose, um, a tremendous harm to us as a common society.

07:19

Speaker 2
Fortunately, members of the NYPD were o- on, um, they had their heads on swivel. Um, we even had a two-star chief, which was the bureau commander that valiantly jumped into action w- along with the sergeant and took these two individuals into custody. I think this was grade one police work as it relates to the investigation or conducting the back, um, the backwards investigation. And when I say a backwards investigation, meaning we start at the scene of the crime and we work back all the way to, up to and including that point where the plot was comprised. Um, I tip my hat to these individuals, but I really think that this is something that should resonate for all Americans, that if you see something, say something. In addition to that, this is a clear example of our police working to uphold the social contract in society.

08:10

Speaker 1
Wow. Captain?

08:13

Speaker 3
Well, uh, the good news is that one of the kids is probably gonna be let go, and I'll tell you why. Because his attorney said that he had some complicated stuff goin' on in his life.

08:25

Speaker 1
I heard that.

08:25

Speaker 3
So, they probably need to let that kid go. Listen, it's probably not the kid's fault. He, he, he either got beat as a child, didn't get beat as a child, or he had friends or didn't have friends. It's very complicated, so.

08:35

Speaker 1
Or didn't get beat enough.

08:36

Speaker 3
Didn't get beat enough, yeah. But, you know, uh, we are just one failed bomb away from, like Dr. Darren was talking about, just a, just a nightmare. Now, my question would be, uh, 'cause I saw the one, uh, I think assistant chief or deputy chief, New York City Police Department, hop the fence. I was so impressed with that dude right there. He just hopped the fence, went after the bad guy. I don't think we'd be seeing that any other place. So, uh, there's that, there's a, a picture of him going mi- uh, stopped ad- going over the fence chasing the bad guy.

09:08

Speaker 1
Yeah.

09:08

Speaker 3
I was very impressed with that guy. I don't know, Darren, if you know him or not. But, but good for him.

09:13

Speaker 2
Now, well, he was trained by Captain Brett Bartlett, and that's when his Superman antics came into play.

09:19

Speaker 1
(laughs)

09:19

Speaker 2
In scaling (laughs) tall buildings in a single bound.

09:23

Speaker 3
All right. You got me. (laughs) That picture was all over the place. Yeah, that guy, he got a lot of coverage from that. And so, and good for, good for him. Good for him. It wasn't planned or he didn't pose for it, you know. It was just, it was just like perfect for the shoes My next question would be, with, with all the other citizens there, why didn't they pull their guns out and shoot the bad guys dead? Is that, is that an issue in New York City that, that, the, the, all the armed populous is not allowed?

09:47

Speaker 3
Oh, wait, wait

09:48

Speaker 1
There is no armed populous.

09:49

Speaker 3
That's, oh, that's right. There is no armed populous in New York City.

09:53

Speaker 1
Yeah.

09:53

Speaker 3
Well, listen, listen. Tell those two knuckleheads once he gets comp- like, gets released from having a complicated life, "Come down here to Tampa and Pasco County and try that crap."

10:01

Speaker 1
Yes.

10:01

Speaker 3
He won't be able to fall down because the bullets are keeping him up.

10:05

Speaker 1
Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, on all the way, all the sides, yeah. Well, if you guys are ready, we've got another one here that we're holding onto. So, we've got our next story here, and thank you, good commentary on that one. Uh, RVM News, which is redvoicemedianews.com, uh, meet the latest trans shooter the media will memory hold by next week. So, we have a 16-year-old girl, and, and, uh, and she really is a girl. They, they got it, they got it right. Um, 'cause a lot of these people, even when they're doing news stories on this stuff, they wanna be politically correct, and they, and, and if they're in a transition or if they just identify a- as, as someone or something, they will refer to them that way. But not Red Voice Media. So, a 16-year-old girl has pled not guilty. And, and I've only got a minute, so I'm not gonna be able to get all the way through this before first commercial break. But she pled not guilty to two counts of first-degree premeditated murder.

10:58

Speaker 1
So, this is not like a plot that was never executed. It, it was executed. Authorities found that, well, she admitted to fatally shooting her mother and her mother's boyfriend back in July of 2024, um, so, what, about a year and a half ago, according to court records obtained by the Daily Signal. Now, this is in Brevard County with the Palm Bay Police Department doing the investigation. So, and, and so I'm, I'm, again, I'm not gonna give her name, but she's charged with the deaths of her 38-year-old mother and her mother's 22-year-old boyfriend. So, good for mom. Mom's 38, 22-year-old boyfriend, uh, the, uh, the 16-year-old daughter didn't like that so much. And, but that's not the sole motivation for what had- what, what, what went down. So, look, uh, we're coming up on our first commercial break, guys. I'm just gonna stop there. I'll pick this up in a second. We're taking it. We'll be right back. (instrumental music plays) My family only cares about one thing, that I come home safe.

11:52

Speaker 4
At Gulls, every order begins with a promise. Made with purpose. Stitched for support. Backed with pride. Answered by dedicated hands. Delivering the standard.

12:23

Speaker 5
... you have sworn to uphold. We serve more than the mission, we serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safe.

12:44

Speaker 1
Welcome back. LEOH Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host. We're joined by Captain Brett Bartlett with Exemplar Defense Solutions, and also Dr. Daren Porcher, retired from NYPD. We left off talking about meet the latest trained shooter the media will memory hold by next week. A 16-year-old girl pled not guilty to two counts of first-degree premeditated murder because sh- she shot e- and she had a knife on her too, just in case the gun malfunctioned, uh, but she shot and killed her mother, and mother was 38 years old, and the mother's 22-year-old boyfriend. The killings occurred back on July the 7th, 2024 at the residence where they all three lived at. According to the probable cause affidavit, our female, uh, murderer here, or I should say, alleged murderer, uh, I- I'll... because we have a doctor on the show and he'll correct me if I don't do that.

13:34

Speaker 2
Says the state.

13:34

Speaker 1
Uh, initially told police that, uh, an unknown individual had broken into the home and committed the shootings, and then she later confessed to the killing both victims. She admitted that she had broken into her mom's bedroom while mom was gone, got a revolver, and got the ammunition. Now, remember, she's 16. Authorities allege that she then waits inside the residence for the victims to return, and then she waited in the kitchen and i- it said that she had a gun in her hand and a knife in her right pants pocket. When her mom and boyfriend enters the home, she addresses them before opening fire. And, and I'm sure they get a lot of this account from her confession saying that when they walked to the front door, she said, "Hey, welcome home." And then she shoots mom several times, and then she shoots the boyfriend despite him pleading for her to stop. And th- the, uh, suspect described escalating tension in the weeks leading up to the shooting.

14:22

Speaker 1
She said that she had reached her boiling point with her mother following many disagreements in the previous weeks, and they had had disputes about the female's gender identity, and, uh, she said that she wasn't happy with the fact that her mom was not, uh, accepting of her gender transition, uh, to pronouns he and him, and she also didn't like the fact that her mom was dating a 22-year-old, and she said that her mom would be like, "Hey, you're not a real boy." And, you know, the whole, uh, spiel of transphobic stuff, um, and, uh, and so, that's- that's kind of where she left it. Uh, and lastly, our female here entered the plea of not guilty to both charges, and she has a public defender, uh, Michael Parolo, and, uh, she's scheduled to begin trial on November the 2nd, so... And I believe that she's got, like, a no bond hold on her. So, um, there you go. Captain Brett.

15:11

Speaker 3
I'm gonna start a new campaign, it's called guns don't kill people, transgenders kill people. So we're gonna start a registration drive where you have to register your transgender person in your house so that way, you know, we'll know where to- to come get 'em. Um, a- and... Now, this story is not gonna go far. It's not gonna go far past the, uh, uh, disgruntled teenager killed some people in her house. But I don't know what these people are on. I don't know whether they're taking or smoking, or maybe they're just... If- if you don't know what- what... If you can't identify the junk between your legs, you got some huge problems. Well, not necessarily huge problems, but you got problems.

15:47

Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, you know, it just goes to show-

15:49

Speaker 3
How you like that?

15:49

Speaker 1
Uh, uh, uh, I like that. Your mic's cutting in and out, uh, quite a bit, uh, when you're talking there, Captain, but, uh, but it does show that there, you know, we have severe mental issues here in this country. And of course, the whole thing with the transgender, that used to be identified as a mental illness anyhow, but, you know, these kids need help. And I, you know, age 16 years old, I- I do see part of the- the victim side of this. I know that, uh, uh, uh, I kind of find it confusing because apparently, uh, they allege, you know, they- they alluded to the mom not being happy about the, her identifying as a male, um, but then it talks about transitioning, but she's 16 years old, so I- I don't know how that was allowed to... I mean, and we're in Florida, so if mom, uh, the parents didn't want it to happen but she's 16 years old, how- how is that going down? Unless- unless it was a planned transition and she wasn't, and she wasn't doing it. I don't know. Dr. Daren?

16:39

Speaker 2
Well, you know, from the perspective of psychological component as it relates to a 16-year-old doing a transition, I mean, that's not something that I can speak to. Um, I just think that it becomes somewhat challenging how one would believe that at that young of an age, they feel that it would be appropriate to make the transition. And, you know, in all transparency, I believe that, look, if somebody wants to, uh, f- uh... You know, I live in New York City so, you know, you know, trans life is something that we see quite frequently here, so I don't wanna say that that would have been the benchmark, um, or that should be the benchmark as to the shooting that occurred. What we do have is a homicide, and in that homicide investigation, we do not have to prove motive in order to convict someone, but at the same token, uh, the million dollar question would be why.

17:28

Speaker 2
Uh, we've heard, um, the aspect of the, uh, the alleged suspect in this particular case stating that there was, uh, a series of verbal abuse which drove them to shooting and killing the mother and the- the boyfriend. Um, we have a bad act that was committed, and that's what the focal point needs to be. Um, and that person that committed this bad act needs to be tried to the greatest extent that the law has possible. Um, I- I'm hopeful that this is gonna be a murder first degree that we gain a conviction on, but, you know, it's all predicated on what the jury pool is, whether the, uh, if the defendant elects to, um, assume a pinch trial or a jury trial. Hopefully this person can be convicted to the maximum and do that time, because this is dangerous behavior. And whether it's psychological or not, it's clearly a person that should not be on the street placing, uh, further individuals in a free society in harm of their life.

18:28

Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, you've got a situation here. I mean, uh, I mean, look, sometimes they get a hold of the guns, uh, but at 16 years old though, they're not gonna be able to legally get a hold of a handgun, so. But she grabbed it from, uh, you know, when they were gone and left the house, she knew where they were at and got the, uh, got the gun and had ammo and had a backup plan, a knife. You know, it just, uh, it, it just, we've just had so many of these trans shootings, and we've even had some that didn't go through, right? I mean, we've had some that were identified and stopped before they happened, so at least, at least we know that there is an issue so that people can ... If you're, see somebody on social media, you see stuff going on, and it gives you, at least you know, hey, it may be time to say something, you know, to prevent this stuff, because there's obviously some mental stuff going on here. So, uh, it, yeah.

19:13

Speaker 1
It, it's, uh, it's scary, but at least, at least we're getting the information. At least we know now.

19:17

Speaker 3
And this is Florida, right? When we're start, we're talking about no, you cannot marry your cousin legally? So, it's the same kind of thing.

19:23

Speaker 1
Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point.

19:25

Speaker 3
Yeah. Don't, don't marry-

19:26

Speaker 1
Ma'am?

19:26

Speaker 3
... your trans- transvestite cousin. That's really confusing.

19:29

Speaker 1
Well, guys, uh, we've got R- yeah, we got that, and that is the next story actually. Uh, we got 52 seconds before our next break, but, uh, Governor Ron DeSantis at rvmnews.com pushes Florida law makers to ban cousin marriage. I know, can you, can you believe it? There's going to be a lot of people upset here in Florida. Cites cultural concerns, but, but he's, he's really talking about, you know, well, think about it, you know, the cultural, you know, the whole Middle Eastern thing. Uh, Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, is calling on state lawmakers to ban marriage between first cousins, saying the state is behind others that already prohibit the practice, as reported by Fox News. But guess what? Not everybody's doing it. Guys, stick with us. We're coming up for our second commercial break. We got a lot more coming. You're gonna, you don't want to miss it. We'll be right back. All right, guys. It's time to talk about Compliant Technologies at complianttechnologies.com.

20:16

Speaker 1
And they're committed to providing non-lethal solutions to help officers gain the upper hand safely and rapidly in a humane, low optics manner, utilizing what they call their CD3, which stands for conductive distraction and de-escalation device technology. Now, we all know their flagship product is called the glove. It's helped officers not only tens of thousands of times, but they've actually had over 250,000 deployments. No injuries, no deaths. It's an amazing stat. They've actually achieved non-lethal status in an arena that predominantly can only offer less lethal results. When it comes to weapons retention, transitioning to a sidearm or conducted energy weapon, the glove of complianttechnologies.com, they have virtually eliminated weapons confusion. So, stay ahead of the game with Compliant Technologies and the revolutionary CD3 that hundreds of agencies have already turned to nationwide.

20:59

Speaker 1
And friends, take it from me, when it comes to safety, this is one of the most common sense, hands-on solutions that's ever come along, so go to complianttechnologies.com today and tell them that Chip sent you. Again, that is complianttechnologies.com. Welcome back. LEO Round Table at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip Devlock and I'm your host. We're joined by Captain Brett Bartlett, and we've also got Dr. Darren Porcher, uh, TPD, Tampa Police, and NYPD respectively. We left off talking about, uh, law makers in Florida at least, they're going to be banning cousin marriage. Yeah, in Florida. So, Governor Ron DeSantis is calling on law makers to ban marriage between first cousins, uh, so I guess you're still safe going with second cousin there. Uh, saying that the state's behind others that already prohibit the practice, so I know Brett's going, "Phew.

21:45

Speaker 1
Boy, second cousins were safe." Uh, the governor raised the issue of cousin marriage noting that Florida law does not currently prohibit unions, uh, against, well, with first cousins and he talks about Florida law already bans marriages involving close relatives such as siblings, parents, grandparents, nieces, and nephews. Thank God. However, first cousins are not included in the restrictions, so DeSantis believes that should change. He pointed out that other states have already taken similar action. He goes on to say that obviously, that feeds into some of the stealth jihad that when you see, that, that you see when you're allowing things like that to happen, he says it's, it's things, uh, that are, I guess that are in these other cultures that are not consistent with the United States or even with what's going on in Florida. Uh, but of course, it is in Louisiana.

22:28

Speaker 1
Uh, the governor's push follows the failure of House Bill 733 in 2025, uh, which would have added first cousins to the list of prohibited marriages beginning in July the 1st. It also says that supporters of the measure have cited public health concerns, you don't say, including increased risks of genetic disorders. No kidding. Like playing "Dueling Banjos" in the bio. Um, I kind of threw that in myself. Uh, while critics have argued that such decisions, Brett plays the banjo, fall within the realm of personal freedom and private family matters. So, uh, there you have it. (laughs) Any, any, come on, Darren, keep a straight face. Any commentary? Darren Porcher?

23:03

Speaker 2
Well, I think one of the challenges that you have in Florida is, if they outlaw it, then you have 50% of the population of Florida would be-

23:11

Speaker 1
Is that your father later there?

23:11

Speaker 2
(laughs) ... breaking the law because they're already locked in.

23:14

Speaker 1
Oh.

23:14

Speaker 2
They're already locked in.

23:15

Speaker 1
Wow.

23:15

Speaker 2
So, what do they do, right?

23:17

Speaker 1
Right.

23:17

Speaker 2
Will you be grandfathered in? Uh, but we also don't have anything as it relates to brothers and sisters getting married. Or let me get you one-

23:25

Speaker 1
Well-

23:25

Speaker 2
... better than that. Mothers marrying sons. So, you got all of that happening in Florida, right?

23:30

Speaker 1
Wow.

23:30

Speaker 2
You know, all jokes aside, I think that this is a great law.

23:32

Speaker 1
We don't have to stand for that, Darren. We don't have to stand for that. But Brett, please don't stand up because I know, I saw what you're wearing before the show.

23:38

Speaker 2
But this is a great law.

23:38

Speaker 1
Yeah, so stay seated. But, yeah.

23:40

Speaker 2
But this is a great law, all jokes aside.

23:41

Speaker 3
Well, listen-

23:41

Speaker 2
Because you have a lot of genetic, um, uh, issues that'll come up as it relates to marrying that close, you know? We're no longer, we're not the Romans back in the days of BC. We're a much better society.

23:54

Speaker 3
Well-

23:54

Speaker 2
So let me know something, Brett. If we-

23:56

Speaker 3
Yeah.

23:56

Speaker 2
If we, if we implement this in Florida today, how long will it take the gene pool to purge itself to where we have no more deformities in Florida, stuff like that?

24:05

Speaker 3
Oh, it's almost already empty .......................... anyway. Now, going back to New York, at least in Florida, none of our elected representatives-

24:13

Speaker 2
(laughs)

24:13

Speaker 3
AOC, has married their bro- her, her brother. So-

24:17

Speaker 2
Wow.

24:17

Speaker 3
There, there's a proven track record up in New York City-

24:19

Speaker 2
Wow.

24:20

Speaker 3
But not down here.

24:21

Speaker 2
Well, the challenge with AOC is she's probably the most repulsive, uh, politician on the face of this earth, and it just really, uh, you know, just I want to say just the political spectrum in the s- in the state of New York is in the toilet as you look at the quality of life in cities like New York. Um, what I ...... our, our current, our current incumbent mayor that being, um, Zoran the moron de Blasio-

24:48

Speaker 1
Ooh.

24:48

Speaker 2
... uh, I, I, uh, I mean, Madani. He's just... I mean, we've, we've had a succession of bad mayors here in the City of New York. I think the politics in Florida have been much better. But when you mention someone like AOC, I mean, she's, she's in the toilet, to put it mildly.

25:04

Speaker 1
Well, guys, are you ready to go to Pueblo, Colorado for a story with a video component?

25:09

Speaker 2
Let's do it. I've been waiting for this story all day.

25:12

Speaker 1
Okay, let's do this. So, rumble.com, our favorite law enforcement video channel called This is Better, Pueblo Police, they fatally shoot a suspect when he's advancing towards officers with a knife. Here we go. Female citizen exits her car to enter a store. Now, she is, I, I hate to say typical female. She looks like she's maybe a little older, not aware of her surroundings. She's just, like, beeline, but-

25:38

Speaker 4
Hey. Get over here and show me your hands now. Show me your hands. Show me your hands. Do it, motherfucker. Come on it, jump him, he's got a knife. Show me your hands. Get your hand outta your pocket. Do it. Do it, bro. Step up, he's got a knife. Show me your hands. Do it, motherfucker. Stop. Do it. Show me your hands now. I will shoot you. This is what I wanted, bro. Stop. Do it. Drop the knife. Do it. I don't wanna hurt you. Stop. Stop. Drop, drop the knife. Do it, bro. Stop. I don't wanna hurt you. Do it. Do it.

26:39

Speaker 1
We've been watching a surveillance video, and we see this guy walking on the outside of this, uh, retail complex. And so, she's just oblivious. Guy comes up on her. She's going through her purse looking for crap to pull out and he grabs her, he grabs her purse, right? He's a 38-year-old bad guy, Aaron Vigil. He stops her, grabs her her over her purse, violently rips it away from her as she falls to the ground and is dragged a short distance. Yeah, he's dragging her through the parking lot. She's holding onto it. He's got, like, a knife in his hand too. And I thought maybe he's gonna freaking stab her but no, he's just g- grabbing both hands, and he finally just rips it away from her finally. Couple police officers locate this guy. Now, that, that happens then. Guy gets away briefly. So, then they locate the individual, uh, in a vehicle that matches the description of the robbery suspect. Now there's a vehicle pursuit. Suspect ends up crashing.

27:25

Speaker 1
And then when they get, after the crash, they make contact with him. Suspect produces a knife. Officers issue multiple can- multiple, uh, commands to drop the knife. He refuses, of course, 'cause he's a bad guy, and then they subsequently shoot him. After being shot, though, he, it ain't done yet. He's, there, there, he's stabbing himself, which is a little unusual, but it happens. Officers deploy tasers in an attempt to prevent him from causing further harm to himself, and to allow them to give him first aid without being injured. Once he's disarmed, he ends up tossing it. Uh, they render aid, but apparently not good enough or not quick enough, because he succumbs to his injuries later on. Now, when I go to my show notes here, um, I'm kind of looking, uh, we see the robbery of the female about the 20-second, 21-second mark. He's armed with a knife. Vehicle chase. He bails out on foot.

28:12

Speaker 1
At three minutes and 26 seconds, he starts adventuring on the officer who, who's kind of by himself, and the officer's got a gun out on him. And so, the officer starts retreating backwards, and I, I, I hate to see that, 'cause we have so many officers going down. And this is a parking lot where they've got the little parking stops. There's so many opportunities for this officer to fall that he can't see when he's retreating backwards. Um, he ends up firing shots finally at 3:52. Y- you know, he's going back and forth on the radio letting them know what's going on. Suspect goes down, but then we got body cam number two that starts at 4:16. And these guys are deploying the tasers and stuff. I didn't really notice immediately that the dude was, you know, stabbing himself. And, uh, at 4:31, the guy discards the knife, and then, of course, he later dies. And, um, whoever wants to take this one first. Captain Bartley, you want to start off?

28:54

Speaker 3
Yeah. Number one, don't back up unless you're backing up to cover. Better off, go to sideways to cover. But again, you, you gotta go to cover. Second, quit saying stupid crap like, "I don't want to shoot you."

29:06

Speaker 1
I know, yeah.

29:07

Speaker 3
Stop it. And how about this? Just stop talking altogether. Issue a command, and then carry out your command. Because the more you're talking, the more you're yelling. It uses up oxygen in your brain that you should be using to make rational decisions. Issue a command and then shut your mouth.

29:25

Speaker 1
Yeah. Can't argue with that.

29:27

Speaker 2
Y- y- Brett, you, you're, you're spot on, but there's one thing that you'll see in many departments, uh, because remember, we don't have a national standard in policing. Um, the use of force is something, you know, when we look at Graham versus Connor, um, it speaks to objectively reasonable. Um, and that should be the force that an officer uses. Now, there's no clear-cut definition of objectively reasonable. I mean, there are three components in terms of what it is, but, and I'm not gonna go into that in, in the sake of time. But ultimately, uh, the deescalation is, you know, drop your weapon. Police, uh, you know, don't move. Those types of commands. Uh, backing up, you're under no obligation as a police officer to retreat. And that's something that's been upheld by, um, court rulings for years on end. Uh, but at the same token, you kind of wanna be smart. Because I think we, I think we, all of us as former active police officers, we didn't wanna go out and kill someone.

30:25

Speaker 2
We wanted to, we wanna take the appropriate action to keep the community safe, and we don't wanna kill a person. So-The, the use of deadly physical force is something that we need to think through. Um, and something that we've all heard of is something referred to as a zone of safety, and it's generally 20 feet or the range of a weapon. But the challenge with that when you have a knife, a person can cover a lot of space in a short period of time, which can really create a very uncomfortable or dangerous situation for you as a police officer. So oftentimes, we sit back and we second-guess a police officer's use of force. However, the Supreme Court hit at sound when they spoke to the objective reasonableness, because it must be through the eyes of that police officer that's on the scene as the what they observed and what they thought was appropriate, and I think this was a good shoot.

31:18

Speaker 1
I agree.

31:18

Speaker 3
Yeah. I agree with you. I agree, and I understand there's a lot of going on, a lot of policies and stuff like this. But what I'm seeing, and it's been going on for years now, officers give these, we'll call them beta commands. Instead of saying, "I will shoot you," they say, "I don't wanna shoot you," okay? Th- th- that's not something to be telling a bad guy. Here it is, "Stop, police, don't move." If they continue, we're adding that into our, our totality of the circumstances, okay? If- if you retreat, if you're going backwards too fast, you're gonna trip, you're gonna fall. Now the bad guy can come because now he's got that, that advantage over you.

31:52

Speaker 3
Listen-

31:52

Speaker 2
Right, but Bret, just, Bret, I just wanna o- on that point, and I understand that, but when we speak to the de-escalation, and granted, de-escalation can be a multitude of different things, by saying, "Look, I don't wanna shoot you," could that be something that one could see as possible de-escalation?

32:09

Speaker 3
No, no. And, and here's why I say, "Don't make me shoot you. I don't wanna shoot you," that tells the bad guy that I have an edge over you. I can, I can tell that you're not making a, a decision.

32:21

Speaker 2
Okay.

32:21

Speaker 3
Okay? Now, what, the officer doesn't have to pull the trigger under any circumstance if they don't want to, but, but to communicate my lack of willingness to carry out the order I've given, I think that gives an edge to the bad guy. It gives a, uh, uh, an image to the bad guy that, "Wow, this cop, he's just gonna keep talking and talking and talking, and I can get closer and closer until I kill the policeman."

32:45

Speaker 2
Okay.

32:45

Speaker 1
Well, guys, hold that thought. Commercial break number three. We'll be right back. All right, guys. It's time to talk about GunLearn at GunLearn.com, and hey, they got something new going on. We all know about the certified firearms specialist, right? They have this program where you can become a certified firearm specialist. But now they've hooked up with Smarter Degree, Smarter Degrees university partners, and now that certification that actually Captain Bret Bartlett already has, even if you got it up to five years ago, you can convert that into college credit. So yeah, you get rewarded for that education. And GunLearn.com, of course, is the first and only company they offer a step-by-step program that takes you from your present knowledge level to become a safe, accurate, and competent certified firearms specialist. Now, they've been doing this since 1996. They've taught everything that LEOs need to know about firearms and ammunition to all facets of law enforcement.

33:31

Speaker 1
You can start today with online training, or you can register to attend a live seminar. You can actually get free training for yourself and all the personnel at your agency by hosting a seminar for absolutely no cost. The founder, Dan and Kelly, put this together. You can go to the GunLearn.com to get more information. Again, that's GunLearn.com. And, uh, hey, if you haven't been there before, go to the day you don't know what you don't know. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at LeoRoundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block, and I'm your host. We're joined by Captain Bret Bartlett from Tampa Police, and Dr. Daren Porcher, NYPD Lieutenant. So thanks, guys. Hey, we've been talking about a story with a video component. Um, I think that we're done with that, that... I- if you guys are ready to, to jump over to, uh, to a disciplinary issue with a kid and then a mom taking up for her kid, I'd like to cover those two stories back to back if that's okay.

34:17

Speaker 1
I, I, you know, we've already covered the bio and, uh, and, uh, marrying first cousins in Florida and all this other stuff, but, and I, and I mentioned that it's still legal in, in Louisiana, so let's jump, or well, let's, you know, Louisiana, Alabama, so we're gonna jump over to Tampa Free Press at TampaFP.com. Unruly kids blasted in the face with bear spray. I'm surprised it didn't happen in Florida. Uh, Alabama mom faces felony charges. So an Alabama woman faces a felony charge at, uh, this week after police say that she used bear spray as a tool for discipline. So Kristie Lashay Williams, 37 years old, arrested on Monday, April the 6th, booked into the Jefferson County Jail on account of aggravated child abuse and torture. So yeah, felonies, felony stuff. The investigation started on March the 8th. A neighbor calls 911.

35:07

Speaker 1
They see a young girl running down the street, she's crying, and the toddler, or, or, or the, or the, the young girl, um, they don't say really how old she is, uh, but they say... the dispatch, the dispatcher said the child's face was, um, I guess appeared puffy and her eyes were severely bloodshot, and that's what was told to the dispatcher. So th- the agencies, the Leeds Police, uh, Department, so L-E-E-D-S, when the Leeds police officers, they get there, they find two elementary-aged children, they're in distress. And so the Police Chief Paul Irwin says the children were, uh, initially telling the responders that they'd been hit with bug spray, they didn't know the difference. And so they did a search warrant and they hit the house and they found out that, uh, she had a canister of bear spray, and that's what they think that she used as the actual weapon.

35:49

Speaker 1
One child told detectives that she sprayed them directly in the eyes and the mouth, and using bear spray on humans is known to cause involuntary eye closure, respiratory distress, burning of the skin and throat, and, and I mean, we know that with pepper spray and stuff too. Chief Irwin stated that Williams allegedly used the chemical deterrent because the children were being unruly, and he said, "Hey, I think it's terrible. I don't think you should be punishing your children with spray that can be used on a bear. That's not, uh, to be used on humans." And following the incident, both children were transported to the local hospital for, to be treated. The initial incident, uh, occurred back in March, but Williams was taken into custody, um, this week after investigators finalized the warrant, and they show that she's, uh, since bonded out, $15,000 bond, and the re- investigation is still open. So there you have it. Uh, Dr. Daren Porcher, uh, how do you... I, I know this sounds...

36:39

Speaker 1
I mean, you know, we're talking about Alabama, what do you think?How'd you guys roll in, in New York? Would this happen in New York? Okay, Brett, we... His mic's not working so do you have anything to add on this or I can roll to another story? All right, guys. We're gonna roll to our next story then.

36:55

Speaker 2
No, no, so, I'm sorry about that. Okay.

36:55

Speaker 1
So our next story, we found another update story and I'm gonna take number two here. And so on the next story, we've got, uh, Illinois mom faces felony charges after opening fire to stop an attack on her son. That's the Tampa Free Press at tampafv.com. So on Tuesday afternoon, there's a trip to a Rockford gas station that ends with a shooting and the arrest of a 48-year-old mother who claims that she's defending her son from an ambush. So Monica Moore, she's now facing felony charges following the March 31st incident. So this all starts about 5:00 in the afternoon. Mom's driving her son to a friend's house, and then she pulls into a gas station and she stays in her car, lets her son out to go inside. So investigators say that as she's watching, she sees another car pull up and we have two individuals that actually follow her son into the store, and they immediately attack her son. So Mom grabs the nine miller handgun from her car. She runs towards the entrance, but it ain't over.

37:45

Speaker 1
Surveillance video captures there's a struggle going on at the storefront. One of the attackers allegedly holds the door shut, blocking Mom from entering the store to help out the son while he's being attacked, you know, inside and they're beating her son. So she manages to force the door open, she fires her weapon, the bullet strikes one of the assailants in the leg, and then immediately after the shot was fired, the fight ends. But here, what's Mom do? Mom leaves the scene with her son, drops him off at his original destination, and then she calls the police from her home so she goes home and then she reports what happened. She didn't stay on the scene. The guy who got shot though was treated at a local hospital, went, he, he went through surgery and police said that he was uncooperative, refused to name the shooter or the press any charges against the mom.

38:31

Speaker 1
And despite the uncooperative nature of the victim and Mom's claim of intervention, Rockford police charged her with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and aggravated battery for the discharge of a firearm. She was taken into custody and booked into the Winnebago County Jail. So there you go. Any commentary, gentlemen? Dar- Dr. Darren Porcher.

38:50

Speaker 2
Yeah. Uh, y- she's gonna have to articulate that she perceived that her son was in grave risk of a serious physical injury or death as it relates to the assault that happened inside of the, uh, the establishment. In addition to that, she's gonna have to introduce, because it's not an open carry state, um, she's gonna have to introduce some level of a permit that establishes her ability to have a concealed firearm. So I think those are the two components that her defense attorney is gonna have to bring to fruition in the court process.

39:22

Speaker 1
Now as far as... I don't think she had a concealed firearm at any point, right?

39:28

Speaker 2
But, but-

39:28

Speaker 1
I mean, she had it in her ca- she had it in her car.

39:29

Speaker 2
Right. All right. She had it in her car, but at the s- all right, all right. So let's say hypothe- in order to have it in your car, don't you need a concealed firearm permit? Because you have to get it from anywhere in Illinois.

39:40

Speaker 1
Not, not in... We never had it in Florida. There are places... I mean, I guess it depends on where you're at, but-

39:43

Speaker 2
Like this is in Florida, right? But this is not in Florida.

39:47

Speaker 1
But I'm just saying that, you know, not necessarily. I mean, and we don't know that it was concealed in the car either. It could have been on the seat, but, you know, like, like many other states, you can have it in a cer- you can have it in the glove box. You can have it in, you know, without it being locked. There's a lot of pla- a lot of states allow you to carry firearms. And Brett loves that. But yeah, there are a lot of states are, are not like New York where we allow... We never... You don't even have to have a permit. I mean, now Florida's changed the law where e- everybody can carry. But even before that, you could legally have a gun in your glove box. It doesn't have to be locked. You don't need a permit. As long as you can, can legally have a gun, you're not a prohibited person, it's completely legal. No permit, no nothing.

40:22

Speaker 2
And in this state, we're speaking of Illinois, correct?

40:26

Speaker 1
Let me go back up here and see. We were talking about Alabama.

40:29

Speaker 2
Oh, Alabama. That's... I think, I think that's, that's- Why did I think this was... Yeah, yeah. It's, uh, it's, uh, it's wide open. Why did I think this was Illinois Yeah Okay, my apologies Well, 'cause a lot of people get killed in Ill- Illinois over the weekend

40:39

Speaker 1
Well, you know what? I'm sorry. That is the... I'm sorry. Alabama was the bear spray story. And, uh-

40:45

Speaker 2
Okay.

40:45

Speaker 1
... and, uh, and this was... and I, and I closed out the other one, so I, I don't know off the top of my head which one it is. But we have 2 minutes and 40, and 42 seconds.

40:51

Speaker 2
I believe this is Illinois and they don't have... They have tight... They have very strict gun control, gun control laws.

40:57

Speaker 1
Yep.

40:58

Speaker 2
Brett, I want you to chime in because-

40:59

Speaker 1
It is, it is Illinois.

41:00

Speaker 2
It is Illinois. All right, so-

41:01

Speaker 1
It is Illinois, yeah.

41:02

Speaker 2
What I gave you- Yeah, you're right about that Right, right. So my premise was accurate as it relates to this because they have very tough gun, um, handgun laws in Illinois

41:10

Speaker 1
Yeah, it's, uh-

41:11

Speaker 2
Brett, you can go ahead and chime in. The two components I gave you were accurate

41:15

Speaker 1
Right.

41:15

Speaker 2
I'm sorry, go ahead too, Brett. If this was Florida, I would have pulled one of the two guns that I was carrying, concealed on me, maybe the third from my car

41:22

Speaker 1
(laughs)

41:23

Speaker 2
And in Florida, 776.012, subparagraph two, says as long as my force is reasonable, necessary and imminent, it doesn't have to be me, it can be somebody else I'm protecting. Given that story, knowing what I know, if that's the story, I would have shot that kid too. Right. But Florida's very different than Illinois Oh, no doubt. No doubt about it Pritcher is the governor Florida... I'm sorry, Illinois (laughs) Pritcher is the governor of Illinois Yeah, see, in, in Illinois Does that tell you ... the police will protect you in Illinois so you don't need to carry a gun Oh, sure. They do a great job.

41:55

Speaker 2
Just ask the Chicago residents Yeah, just ask the 53 killed over the weekend

41:59

Speaker 1
Ouch. Yeah. Yeah.

42:01

Speaker 2
Yeah, reasonable, necessary, imminent. I would have shot that kid too.

42:06

Speaker 1
Guys, we got a mi- we got a minute and a half, and, uh, probably not enough time to cover a, a story with a video component. Um, the bear story, did you guys want to add anything on the bear spray story? Or, or is that just kind of... Or have you guys used that on your kids as well or-

42:18

Speaker 2
I, I had, I had to check out for a se- Now remind me, Chip. You know Was that wrong? Did we cover that all? Was that wrong to use the bear spray

42:26

Speaker 1
Your, your mic cut out so I didn't hear everything you said but...

42:31

Speaker 2
You know, the bear spray, they're speaking of the capital punishment in terms of, you know, um, adults and kids. I, I... It's very abstract and you have to look at the totality of the situation as opposed to just bear spray was used. I don't think it was something that should have resulted in, um, a, a-

42:49

Speaker 1
Felonies?

42:50

Speaker 2
Right, a felony.

42:51

Speaker 6
But once again, I'm speaking to me being a, a child that grew up with spare the rod-

42:57

Speaker 1
(laughs)

42:57

Speaker 6
... and spoil the child (laughs) , you know? I got beatings every day, but the point is-

43:00

Speaker 1
You know what a switch is?

43:02

Speaker 6
Yes. That's something that your parents-

43:04

Speaker 1
You know what a switch is?

43:04

Speaker 6
... would send you into the, into the backyard to get to beat you with. And it worked.

43:08

Speaker 1
Yeah!

43:09

Speaker 6
It worked. It worked.

43:09

Speaker 1
People don't know what switches are, yeah.

43:12

Speaker 6
It worked. It worked. Just look at Brett. (laughs)

43:14

Speaker 1
Yeah.

43:15

Speaker 6
Prime example.

43:17

Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. So, uh, no, I agree. I mean, look, it, it's, uh, it, it, I mean, they charged you with torture and aggravated, um, I think child abuse. Y- yeah, so I, I mean, you know, I, I admit it, it was bad, but I, I'm, I'm with you. I have some questions about it, so, um, but I, I see, but we all grew up in a different era too, so, so, um, yeah, let the beatings begin. I, uh, I remember-

43:39

Speaker 6
(laughs) Uh-oh.

43:41

Speaker 1
I remember, and I'm gonna ... I know we're kinda over time, we're on our last minute, but I remember getting a call. This probably would never happen today, but the kids called the police on their old man because they were out all night, they came home, they had been drinking, and they were underage. And so he wouldn't let them in the house. And, and he told them, "If y- if you're coming in, you're g- I'm gonna beat you." And, uh, they called the police. I, I show up by myself, and, uh, I interview the kids right in front of the daddy. He's right there. And I look at him and I say, "Sir, it sounds to me like you've got everything under control. Just wait till I get in the car and leave before the beatings begin." And I shook his hand.

44:11

Speaker 6
That's what I'm talking about. Yeah.

44:12

Speaker 1

And the kid's looking at me like, "Aah!" You know? And that's the way, and that's the way I did it, you know? Uh, 'cause he was... You know what? It was the best thing for those kids. It... But to think that they could call law enforcement... But look, we got 10 seconds. Dr. Darren Porcher and Captain Brett Barlow, thank you guys so much for making the show and killing it today. Golis.com, ComplyingTechnologies.com, GunLearn.com, America.care.lifesaverrecruiting, and 2Belles, thanks guys. We'll see you back tomorrow, 12:00 noon Eastern.