[00:00] Speaker 1: (music) First in our Bill of Rights is the freedom to hear uncensored ideas and opinions, to think your own thoughts, and to say what's on your mind. We couldn't have liberty without it. Now, more than ever, it's good to spout off. To listen, debate, and participate. Here's your host of Spouting Off, commentator, columnist, and all around rabble-rouser, Karen Kataline.

[00:47] Speaker 2: And to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

[00:54] Speaker 3: From my cold, dead hands.

[00:56] Speaker 4: I'm concerned that if we don't impeach this president, he will get reelected.

[01:00] Speaker 1: (music) It's time for the Alan Nathan All Stars, the longest running nationally syndicated centrist show in the country. Now, here's your All Star host.

[01:10] Speaker 5: Well, yes. I'm one of those All Star hosts. I'm here today, and it is great to have you along as well. I'm Karen Kataline, uh, commentator, columnist, all around rabble-rouser, and by the way, if you would like to access the Alan Nathan, uh, shows of 25 years of, uh, archives, more than that now, I think, um, you can go to the mainstreetradionetwork.com, and there you'll find a veritable treasure trove of, uh, shows that you can listen to. It's really interesting sometimes when you lived through a period and you wanna know what Alan Nathan thought about it, it's there. So it's mainstreetradionetwork.com. And I have a website too, a separate one, karenKataline.com. You can also find me on Twitter. Well, uh, we are, um, just waiting for our guest to arrive to work out a couple of quick little technical things.

[02:18] Speaker 5: But, uh, I'm confident that we'll have him momentarily, and, uh, just to give you a tease of, uh, what he's going to talk about, has it been a long, long wait about the Epstein files? All of a sudden, there was, there was lots of brouhaha and build up, build up, build up about the Epstein documents, and then with no build up at all, there were three million Epstein documents that released, and almost as if the people that released them wanted to release them in the dead of night so people wouldn't go through them. It's hard telling what really has been the backstory on, uh, the Jeffrey Epstein files. It certainly has captured, uh, the imaginations of political watchers, in that just when we thought the issue was (clears throat) dead, uh, more and more and more continues to come out. Uh, we wonder why nothing ever gets done, as we saw in our, uh, previous segment, the number of people who stand, uh, in opposition to getting the truth out there, whatever it may be.

[03:41] Speaker 5: It seems to be preciously rare for, um, elected officials and others simply to want to expose the truth. No. Uh, the people, uh, who most want to keep it (laughs) behind closed doors and under wraps are the people that seem to be implicated. Um, but we don't know just yet about, uh, this new set of documents, but here to talk about it even more so is Nick Bryant, who's an investigative journalist and director of www.epsteinjustice.com. We'll have to find out about that. He's spent seven years investigating a child sex trafficking network that was covered up by state and federal authorities, culminating in The Franklin Scandal, a story of power brokers, child abuse, and betrayal. His latest book is The Truth About Watergate: A Tale of Extraordinary Lies. Nick Bryant, so good to have you on to talk about this, uh, issue and story that never seems to go away. A lot of people want to make it go away without getting to the truth. Thank you, Nick, for joining us.

[05:03] Speaker 6: It's great to be with you.

[05:04] Speaker 5: Great. Well, uh, let's cut right to the chase. As I mentioned as you were coming up, uh, the, the, the fanfare of releasing the Epstein, Epstein documents always seemed to have been met for the last year or more with, um, great disappointment, anticlimactic nothing, nothing burger, and then when nobody did any fanfare, there's three million Epstein, Epstein, excuse me, documents released. What's in 'em if you've read 'em, and then we're gonna get to the fact that you were mentioned in them as well.

[05:50] Speaker 6: The Epstein documents from th- their release, I mean, it's been very, very disappointing. The first go-around was when Pam Bondi said that they ha- that they were on her desk.

[06:02] Speaker 3: ... and that she was gonna release names, and then she gave them to us. And actually, I published Epstein's black book and flight logs in 2015 on the internet.

[06:13] Speaker 5: Oh.

[06:13] Speaker 3: A- and I provided more incriminating information on Jeffrey Epstein than Pam Bondi did.

[06:20] Speaker 5: Isn't that alone suspicious? I mean, there's a reason conservatives do not trust Pam Bondi.

[06:26] Speaker 3: (coughs)

[06:26] Speaker 5: Is there real reason not to or is it just a hunch that some people have? Do we have you? I think we've lost him. Hmm. Okay. (laughs) Uh, he dropped off and, um, and so we'll have to get him back. Uh, uh, that is a question that many people... I'll tell you the reason, as we're waiting for him to come back, that I haven't been the greatest fan of Pam Bondi, and that's because I have seen and watched her as a purport- proponent and a supporter of the Bushes, who have been totally, uh, disqualified for credibility. Uh, she seemed to be really, really tight with the Bushes, which leads a lot of people, skeptics, like myself, to wonder, uh, what is she trying to keep hidden and what is she trying to expose? All of the fanfare, uh, that I was talking about, some of it came from Bondi herself, always git- making speeches, "Oh, we're gonna get you. We're gonna come after you. You better be very scared," and then nothing.

[07:48] Speaker 5: No action, just a lot of words, just a lot of talk, and that causes people to be suspicious. What are you hiding? I mean, there's no, no secret that, um, people who watch politics as much as, uh, Alan Nathan All Stars listeners do have reason to be suspicious, because they've been lied to so much. Now, we have a window of opportunity to get to the brass tacks, get down to the bottom of what's really been going on in not only Jeffrey Epstein, but, um, the frauds we talked about earlier, and, uh, and, uh, we wonder what's going on. So, uh, I'm hoping that we will get him back, because three million Epstein documents is a lot (laughs) of documents. Many of us wondered whether or not... I mean, uh, I didn't think that there were three million left. I mean, that is a lot. We didn't think there was, uh, th- that many documents left. And what's in them? You notice that things are trickling out as, um, hopefully honest journalists continue to comb through them, and what of...

[09:11] Speaker 5: It's always seems to come back, not only to bribery and blackmail, which people are quite skeptical about, I certainly am, but this horrible, um, aspect of it, which is taking advantage of the smallest and most vulnerable among us. It always seems to include child abuse, and that's what we've seen with the immigration issue is that thousands upon thousands of children simply disappeared, and Homan, the terrible bad guy, the bad guy everybody wants to vilify, even though he was, uh, his virtues were extolled during Obama's time and Homan was there helping to deport illegal immigrants, so there's a double standard, um-

[10:09] Speaker 3: Uh-

[10:10] Speaker 5: ... uh, it always comes back to child abuse. Uh, a- among the many things. We do have Nick Bryant back. Nick, before we get back into it, and hopefully you have a good connection now, can you stay for one more segment?

[10:24] Speaker 3: One more segment.

[10:24] Speaker 5: As we-

[10:25] Speaker 3: Sure.

[10:26] Speaker 5: Yes.

[10:26] Speaker 3: I'd be happy to.

[10:27] Speaker 5: That's great. Don't move (laughs) so we won't lose you again. What we were talking about... Do you remember what we were talking about? We can pick it right up, pic- pick it right-

[10:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, you know-

[10:37] Speaker 5: ... back up there.

[10:38] Speaker 3: ... up there. You were asking me about Bondi's release, or I was kind of explaining that.

[10:42] Speaker 5: Yes.

[10:42] Speaker 3: And, uh, and I released more incriminating information in 2015 than Bondi did last year in 2025. And then-

[10:50] Speaker 5: And what about these three million? Let's cut to that. I- is there a lot of g- stuff in there? You can see, we're already done with that segment. Let's pick it up there. What's in those three million and how much have you combed through, and what do you expect to find? That's our tease, so you'll come back and we will get that answer from Nick Bryant, and how is it that his name came up in the Epstein files? We'll hear from him after this quick break on the Alan Nathan All Stars on the Main Street Radio Network. Stay tuned.

[11:29] Speaker 7: (upbeat music) Coaching college cheer has been my life's work. I have put together the most disciplined teams to ever take the mat. Oh, this is not them. In the tradition of The Office and Parks and Recreation, NBC's new hit comedy Stumble is a mockumentary about the high stakes competitive world of junior college cheer. Jenn Lyon stars as Coach Courtney Potter, who needs one more trophy to be crowned the winningest coach in college cheer history. But after getting fired for partying with her team, she must start over and coach a bunch of misfits at a junior college in a tiny Oklahoma town. Kristin Chenoweth also stars as the hilarious Coach Tammy, along with Saturday Night Live alum Tarran Killam as Boone. (upbeat music) In order to qualify for the nationals, I've got to get a team to cheer camp.

[12:16] Speaker 8: (screaming)

[12:17] Speaker 7: I'm giving you the opportunity to toss girls in the air and get all the attention you want.

[12:20] Speaker 5: Damn! That's my dream.

[12:22] Speaker 9: Don't miss the hit comedy Stumble, returning Friday nights on NBC in January. The first six episodes are now streaming on Peacock.

[12:30] Speaker 8: Hey, are you ready? Are you ready? Nah.

[12:37] Speaker 5: (upbeat music) Welcome back, everyone, to the LA Nathan All Stars. I'm Karen Katalen. And, uh, we left you with bated breath to talk to and get some answers and, uh, with, from Nick Bryant, who I know is here, ready to help us with that. He, uh, is, um, uh... Well, we'll talk about his, his, uh, uh, background in a minute. Nick Bryant, are you there?

[13:10] Speaker 10: I'm here.

[13:11] Speaker 5: Wonderful. Let's talk about Pam Bondi and the three million Eps- uh, Epstein documents that have been released. Have you begun to comb through any of those? Are, are there any bombshells or is it just more, uh, same old, same old different day?

[13:28] Speaker 10: Well, they had six... The Department of Justice had six million documents, and they've withheld three million, which goes-

[13:36] Speaker 5: Three million?

[13:36] Speaker 10: ... against the Epstein Transparency Act. Yeah, so they're, they're in violation of the law once again.

[13:43] Speaker 5: Huh.

[13:45] Speaker 10: But-

[13:45] Speaker 5: Well, therein is evidence that Bondi is helping the opposition. Or am I wrong?

[13:53] Speaker 10: I think that Bondi is doing her best to keep this covered up. Absolutely.

[13:58] Speaker 5: Huh.

[13:59] Speaker 10: I don't think she's helping the opposition. Actually, I think both Bondi and Patel should be fired for perpetuating this cover-up.

[14:09] Speaker 5: And, and this is pure speculation on my part, but I can't help but wonder (laughs) if it's not Donald Trump that she's trying to protect, who is, who do you think she is trying to protect? 'Cause I don't think it's Donald Trump. As far as I can tell, I see no exposure for Donald Trump here, but the people that hate Donald Trump seem to have a lot of exposure, including, I playfully refer to as the Bushies.

[14:41] Speaker 10: Well, Donald Trump has done everything in his powers to keep these documents from coming out. He really has.

[14:50] Speaker 5: How do you figure?

[14:51] Speaker 10: I mean... Well, because of when Pam Bondi released the documents that were a nothing sandwich, it... Trump could have really ridden her to release everything, and he also fought against the discharge petition that Thomas Massie and Ro Khanna were trying to get through the House of Representatives. He did everything he could t- to fight that. And so, I believe that Donald Trump is also complicit in this cover-up. I really do.

[15:21] Speaker 5: Well, what do you say to people? And this is not just coming from people who think Trump can do no wrong, because everybody can do wrong. (laughs) It's not an impossibility. But is it possible that Trump was, uh, kind of luring the left into pushing to, uh, expose those documents because he knows anything... Look, let's face it, if he said to people, "Don't jump off that... Don't jump. Don't jump off that bridge. It's dangerous," they'd go off and jump off that bridge just because they do the opposite of everything he says. So, he's playing a lot of different political strategies here, and I don't think it's impossible to wonder, once he saw that they were pushing to release them, I don't know, there seems to be an awful lot of levels here. What do you think?

[16:19] Speaker 10: Well, here is the bottom line with all of this, is our federal government is covering up child sex trafficking. That is the bottom line. Child sex trafficking is the most heinous of crimes.

[16:35] Speaker 5: It is.

[16:36] Speaker 10: And-

[16:36] Speaker 5: No question.

[16:38] Speaker 10: And it's very obvious that Jeffrey Epstein was a child sex trafficker. There's a tremendous amount of evidence t- to support that. So, why would the government cover that up? That's the question. Why? And, and the cover-up started under Bush too. He was the person that gave Jeffrey Epstein the sweetheart deal, and it continued under Obama, and it continued under Biden, and actually during Trump's first term it continued. So, Trump is like these other presidents. He is doing his best to keep the Epstein lists or Epstein files covered up.

[17:19] Speaker 5: Do you have a sense of what you think they're trying to cover up, even a... I mean, we won't hold you to it, but what, what do you think they might be covering up or home is most-

[17:33] Speaker 10: Actually, I-

[17:35] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[17:35] Speaker 10: I believe that I have a pretty definitive answer for that.

[17:39] Speaker 5: What's that?

[17:40] Speaker 10: I believe th- that our intelligence compromises various power brokers and politicians, and that blackmail is rife within our political system, and that's what's being covered up. That's what's being c- Tim Burchett from the very conservative... House member from Tennessee has said publicly a number of times that my colleagues are being compromised in honey traps. So, I don't think-

[18:09] Speaker 5: People are being compromised? Who did you say?

[18:12] Speaker 10: His, his colleagues in the House are being compromised in honey traps.

[18:16] Speaker 5: Oh. Uh-huh.Well, do you remember... Do you remember the, uh, very 24-hour news item that almost nobody paid attention to during the Obama administration when it was revealed that high-level HR documents, uh, found their way into the hands of the Chinese? And, uh, the next day the story was gone. I mean, how, how much of a genius do you have to be to figure out that those HR files have every vulnerability and peccadillo imaginable in the highest levels of our government, ripe with br- bribery and blackmail?

[19:01] Speaker 10: And I'm not discounting the Chinese as a party to blackmail our politicians, but Epstein, I believe, and, and I'm writing a big article about this, Epstein was definitely tied to American intelligence and Israeli intelligence. And I can't imagine people ask me, "Well, wasn't Jeffrey Epstein part of Israeli intelligence?" And, and I generally respond the same way. I say, "I can't believe that American intelligence would let Israeli intelligence compromise American politicians on American soil without getting a cut of that intelligence." So, that's what I believe.

[19:42] Speaker 10: I think that all-

[19:43] Speaker 5: Okay. What is the evidence that he was, uh, in Israeli intelligence? Is it because he has a Jewish last name? Or is there hard evidence?

[19:52] Speaker 10: Yes. He... His... One of his best buddies is Ehud Barak, the former prime minister of Israel and also the former de- defense minister of Israel. And I've written two articles. You can go to the website, epsteinjustice.com. I've written two articles on arms deals that Ehud Barak and Jeffrey Epstein put together. And there definitely th- there was heavy involvement of, uh, Israeli intelligence, ostensibly retired Israeli intelligence, but definitely Israeli intelligence. And now I'm working on an article that shows Jeffrey Epstein's various CIA connections. And Jeffrey Epstein... In both the articles about Israel and then also this article I'm working on now, Jeffrey Epstein was really integral to, uh, arms dealing. I mean, that was one of his things. He... Not only did he traffic children, uh, he was also a money launderer, and he was... Uh, he, he took part in arms deals.

[20:56] Speaker 5: (upbeat music) Wow. It get... It, it starts to sound like a, um, like a bad science fiction thriller or something. We don't know yet, but... Um, how can people follow you, Nick Bryant?

[21:15] Speaker 10: I would say go to nickbryant.nyc.com. But actually check out our website, Epstein Justice. We're trying to get justice. We want the government to come clean on why it covered up child trafficking. And we want the perpetrators to be prosecuted.

[21:29] Speaker 5: Okay. That does it. We gotta let g- let you go. We'll be right back after this.

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[23:27] Speaker 7: To order your free For You Calendar, visit lindatongplanners.com. (upbeat music)

[23:41] Speaker 5: Welcome back, everyone, to Alan Nathan's All-Stars. I'm Karen Catalan. Very excited to talk with this next guest. He's a GOP candidate for Maryland's 3rd Congressional District. He hosts The Loyal Opposition Show and is author of Black Values Matter. Uh, welcome Bernie Flowers to Alan Nathan All-Stars. Good to have you, Bernie.

[24:08] Speaker 6: Karen, how you doing?

[24:10] Speaker 5: I'm doing excellent. Excellent. Um, (laughs) apparently-

[24:16] Speaker 6: Thank you for having me.

[24:16] Speaker 5: What's that?

[24:17] Speaker 6: Thank you for having me.

[24:19] Speaker 5: Oh, it's, uh, uh, very, very much a pleasure. You weren't on, uh, Vic Porcelli this morning, were you?

[24:26] Speaker 2: No, that wasn't me.

[24:28] Speaker 5: Oh, okay. I, I followed someone who talked about something quite similar about Black values and how-

[24:36] Speaker 2: Right.

[24:36] Speaker 5: ... uh, forgive me for thinking it might've been you, I didn't get the name proper. But, um-

[24:41] Speaker 2: That's okay.

[24:41] Speaker 5: ... your book highlights that Black Americans are among the nation's most conservative ethnic groups. Uh-

[24:49] Speaker 2: Yes.

[24:49] Speaker 5: And first talk about that, because most people don't think that since, uh, Blacks have a history of voting Democrat so very much of the time. Although, with the advent of Trump, that has begun to change quite a bit.

[25:07] Speaker 2: Well first, let me apologize to you. I'm sure you've heard about the bad weather we've got here on the East Coast.

[25:14] Speaker 5: Sure.

[25:15] Speaker 2: I, I have been out digging me and my neighbors out of the snow and ice. And normally-

[25:21] Speaker 5: (laughs) .

[25:21] Speaker 2: ... you know, we get snow, but now we've got ice and it re... I just spent, um, $80 on an ax.

[25:29] Speaker 5: Oh.

[25:31] Speaker 2: Yeah. I had to buy an ax-

[25:32] Speaker 5: (laughs) .

[25:32] Speaker 2: ... to shake up the snow, break up, break up the ice. So-

[25:35] Speaker 5: Oh, no.

[25:36] Speaker 2: It's crazy, but, you know, hey, it is what it is and it's good exercise.

[25:40] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[25:40] Speaker 2: My voice is normally not like this, so that's why I'm, um, apologizing.

[25:44] Speaker 5: No need to apologize, you sound great.

[25:47] Speaker 2: Oh, you're so kind.

[25:48] Speaker 5: You sound great.

[25:49] Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

[25:49] Speaker 5: So go for it. (laughs)

[25:50] Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing, yes, um, Black people are among the most, uh, conservative people in this country. We are the most, um, churched people in this country, and somehow between Lyndon Baines Johnson and now, um, we lost our way. And I am trying my best to get people to understand. I mean, most Black people are just as American as anybody else, and I am one of them.

[26:15] Speaker 5: Right.

[26:15] Speaker 2: I've got 10 years in the Air Force, I've got another 13 and a half working in civil service. I've spent my whole life, um, defending this country, and I don't know anybody more patriotic than I am. But the bottom line is somehow, someway, the Democratic Party weaseled their way into the Black consciousness. And now, we're just now starting to see as a group that that was the wrong thing.

[26:40] Speaker 5: Well, a lot of people blame th- the president you mentioned just a moment ago, LBJ. Uh, and cl- uh, I don't know if it's, uh, been verified, but it sounds right, that with these so-called Great Society, which is really nothing more than government dependence, fostering dependence on government instead of, uh, families, uh, being independent and self-sufficient. That th- that he said, LBJ, who was pretty darn corrupt, uh, "This will have Democrats voting... This will have Black people voting Democrat, uh, for the next 50 to 100 years." And sadly, it sounds like he was right. Is that where you place the responsibility, or at least the, the origins of it?

[27:32] Speaker 2: He is... I wouldn't say origins, but I will say that first of all, he didn't use Black people. There's another word that he used, but we can't say it (laughs) on your air.

[27:42] Speaker 5: No.

[27:42] Speaker 2: But, but I know where you're coming from. And, um, I consider h- him to be a very dastardly character. Um, you're right, our vote, our vote was bought, bought and paid for. And there are people, the Jesse Jacksons of the world, the Al Sharptons of the world, that have made themselves wealthy being poverty pimps.

[28:03] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[28:03] Speaker 2: And it's been detrimental to the Black community. Now we've got a situation where only 27% of Black women get married.

[28:11] Speaker 5: Huh.

[28:11] Speaker 2: That is not good for the family.

[28:13] Speaker 5: No.

[28:13] Speaker 2: We got a lot of people on government assistance. And now we're starting to understand that all these illegal immigrants, or most of them, they were brought here by the Democratic Party for the intention of replacing us, because we're getting a little unruly. You got Republicans like me that have seen the light.

[28:30] Speaker 5: You know, it's funny, Bernie, because in preparing for this particular interview, I wrote a blurb that said that, um, is, could this be the re- part of the reason why the left is so hellbent on im- importing illegals to take the place of the reliable Bl- voting block?

[28:51] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[28:51] Speaker 5: Because Blacks are finally, with the help of Donald Trump and his clear-

[29:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[29:00] Speaker 5: ... uh, communication of conservative values for the everyday man, uh, that they need a whole new underclass.

[29:09] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[29:09] Speaker 5: 'Cause they can't use the Blacks as the underclass that they once did. Sounds like you may agree with that.

[29:17] Speaker 14: Yeah.

[29:17] Speaker 2: I agree with it, it's my theory.

[29:19] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[29:19] Speaker 2: I mean, here's the thing, um, my last job was as, um, a senior advisor for Secretary Mayorkas over in DHS. Of course, I hadn't made my money-

[29:29] Speaker 5: Really? (laughs)

[29:29] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I got some stories to tell you-

[29:31] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[29:31] Speaker 2: ... but the bottom line is I resigned because I couldn't take, take what was happening. People, you know, it's, it’s complicated, but just think about this. DHS, um, during COVID, 80% of the, um, of the workforce was working from home. So, all these people were coming in through Customs and Border Patrol that would... that worked for DHS, and we weren't on- online because of COVID.

[29:56] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[29:57] Speaker 2: So I'm sitting here watching all this and it was driving me crazy as an old soldier. So, the issue of the day is all this was coordinated and, yeah, p- some people may say I got my tinfoil hat on, but not many people can say they've got-

[30:09] Speaker 5: No.

[30:09] Speaker 2: ... 34 years of service to this country. I saw it up close.

[30:13] Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, and we've seen with the advent of USAID and, and the massive corruption in Minnesota-

[30:22] Speaker 2: Oh, yes.

[30:22] Speaker 5: And the Somalis that the three Bs, it's always the three Bs I call them.

[30:27] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[30:27] Speaker 5: Bullying, bribery and blackmail-

[30:29] Speaker 2: Yep.

[30:29] Speaker 5: ... that gets stuff done in Washington.

[30:32] Speaker 2: Yep.

[30:32] Speaker 5: And that's what they do. And it's whether you're Black or you're just a politician, people are feeding at the government trough at the expense of the American taxpayer and law-abiding citizens. Let me ask you, since you're at the very, very forefront of this issue, what have you found that is the most successful way...... to break through this government dependence and this ideology that, uh, people, be they Black or other, uh, have to support this massive government that's basically bleeding us all dry.

[31:09] Speaker 2: The best thing you can do as a government is to promote the American family. Keep mom and dad together, let them raise their chil- children and stay out of their way.

[31:21] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[31:21] Speaker 2: That's what the government can do for us.

[31:24] Speaker 5: Yeah. And w- and also, what, what has been most successful to convince people in the Black community, in this case, that they've been sold a bill of goods, that they were, you know-

[31:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[31:40] Speaker 5: ... that, that, that, uh, what they were promised was a lie?

[31:45] Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. People are starting to wake up. You've got guys like me, people like you, that are going out telling the truth. I mean, look at what's going on, as you mentioned, in Minnesota.

[31:54] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[31:54] Speaker 2: It's terrible. These people are not American citizens, yet some of them are making, you know, being subsidized to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars-

[32:06] Speaker 5: Uh-huh.

[32:06] Speaker 2: ... you ... And, you know, uh, there was a story where this one family had a house with a basketball court in it. And these were recent immigrants.

[32:15] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[32:15] Speaker 2: And, um, so the bottom line is the system is broken. We need audits everywhere, all across our government. But what I wanna tell you is this is widespread. Wait till they go to California.

[32:25] Speaker 5: Oh, man.

[32:25] Speaker 2: Wait till they go to New Jersey. Wait till they go to ... It's out of control. And we have to ... And, you know, here's the thing. Nobody's talking about, if you remember when Biden was in office, they were saying that Social Security was gonna die, we didn't have enough money for that. The reason that we didn't have enough money is because we were giving the money away through corruption.

[32:47] Speaker 5: It was being siphoned off. Well, I mean, you c- ... I'm a buff about the mob, right? (laughs)

[32:54] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[32:54] Speaker 5: When you talk about Las Vegas and the people that skimmed the skim in Las Vegas-

[33:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[33:02] Speaker 5: ... this government and what has been revealed under Donald Trump make these mobsters look like pikers.

[33:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, you are correct. And you know what? I am not that disappointed. And, and why do I say that? Having spent so much time within the federal government and in three-letter agencies in the government, here's the thing. This stuff has now been discovered. This has been going on for decades.

[33:27] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[33:27] Speaker 2: Decades even. There's always gonna be some graft and corruption, got it.

[33:32] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[33:33] Speaker 2: But this was off the chain. This was beyond recognition. And now it's been discovered, and Mr. Trump is doing everything he can to clean it up.

[33:42] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[33:42] Speaker 2: I'm happy to see that. We gotta get this thing solidified before the midterms though.

[33:47] Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.

[33:47] Speaker 2: That-

[33:47] Speaker 5: Oh, boy. Do we ever.

[33:49] Speaker 2: Is if, if, if he doesn't win, if, if the, if the Republicans don't win the midterm, uh, we're gonna be in a bad place. (instrumental music plays)

[33:57] Speaker 5: Okay. We, we... You, you ... Filtered out there. Uh.

[34:02] Speaker 2: Oh.

[34:02] Speaker 5: Berney Flowers, uh, you're running in Maryland's 3rd Congressional District. What's your website? Do you have one?

[34:12] Speaker 2: Yes. (instrumental music plays)

[34:13] Speaker 5: I think we lost him. He's working on it. We have some weather issues here. We're going ... Look him up. Berney, B-E-R-N-E-Y Flowers. He sounds great. Support him. We'll be right back. You're listening to the Alan Nathan All Stars on the Main Street Radio Network. Stay tuned. (instrumental music plays)

[34:30] Speaker 8: (instrumental music plays) Urinary tract infections are incredibly common. More than 60% of women will experience at least one urinary tract infection in their lifetime, and many have recurrent. I recommend multiple preventative steps in an effort to lower the risk of recurrent infection. Wipe from front to back when using the toilet. Always urinate after sexual activity in an effort to mechanically flush bacteria from the urethra. Hydrate well on a daily basis to flush the urinary system in general. And consider a supplement like Eucora Flush Advanced Plus, a new product with clinical strength, whole fruit cranberry, which works to make the bladder more slippery, to the common bacteria that cause urinary tract infection. This supplement also contains D-mannose, so the supplement itself works in a dual action way. Please visit eucora.com to get more information about general urinary health and, of course, to see our product offering.

[35:32] Speaker 15: Nearly one in three US medical students are now training to become doctors of osteopathic medicine. Dr. Robert Kane, president and CEO of the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine shares what's driving the surge and how it's shaping patient care.

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[36:26] Speaker 15: Find more information at aacom.org. That's A-A-C-O-M dot-org. (instrumental music plays)

[36:39] Speaker 5: Welcome back, everyone, to the Alan Nathan All Stars. I'm Karen Katalinee. We wrap up this hour with the following guest, Chief Operating Officer, uh, Caring Professionals, Julian Hagman, joins us right now on the Alan, uh, Nathan Allstars. Hi, Julian. Thanks for joining us.

[37:02] Speaker 17: Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.

[37:04] Speaker 5: Great. So, you say, and it sounds absolutely correct, that Americans', uh, number one financial anxiety isn't really rent or groceries, it's health care. Uh, why do you say that, and, uh, is it in light of the fact that Obamacare is suddenly coming to light as not everything it was cracked up to be? Which some of us already, uh, said that, but nobody listened. (laughs)

[37:34] Speaker 17: (laughs)

[37:34] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[37:35] Speaker 17: Well, nobody ever does listen. (laughs)

[37:37] Speaker 5: No, there, there. They don't. They don't.

[37:38] Speaker 17: Nobody ever does listen, just you and me.

[37:40] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[37:40] Speaker 17: But, uh, it's real- it's really a mixture of everything. It's the Obamacare subsidies. It's the fact that, uh, you know, uh, blue-collar workers in America who, you know, are above the poverty line are not gonna be able to afford those basic, uh, needs, uh, when they age in place, uh, re- regarding home care, assisted living. I mean, we're talking very expensive stuff here. You know, that could be six figures-

[38:08] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[38:08] Speaker 17: ...that could, that could really drain somebody's, you know, bank accounts and then throw them right into poverty and everything along those lines. And, you know, what we're seeing is just trends of everything moving that way. So, right now, we have the Baby Boomers who are aging in place that are facing quite a sticker shock when they come to learn what the cost of care is for them to continue their daily lives.

[38:32] Speaker 5: Oh.

[38:32] Speaker 17: And, you know, it's a sh- it's a shame that we are in the place we are, uh, and now that we're uncovering all this fraud everywhere, it's, you know, begging the question, well, if we have the money over here-

[38:44] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[38:45] Speaker 17: ...why can't we utilize it over here?

[38:47] Speaker 5: Oh. Well, is this connected to what you do? I- we didn't really talk about your company, Caring Professionals. What do they do? Are you a home health care kind of a faci-

[38:59] Speaker 17: Yeah.

[38:59] Speaker 5: ... uh, tell us more about that.

[39:02] Speaker 17: Yes. Uh, Caring Professionals, we've been around for 32 years in New York State. Um, we've been servicing the Downstate area, so from Westchester County south, including the boroughs in Manhattan, um, for all of that time. Uh, we specialized in, uh, you know, needy communities and s- 32 years ago, and we've expanded our reach throughout the state ever since. Um, you know, for Caring Professionals, we wanna encompass the entire umbrella of the home care ecosystem to be able to offer every service, uh, that we can to be able to keep people in the home, where m- majority of the people want to be anyway.

[39:43] Speaker 17: Uh, and most recently in New York State, we underwent a transformation in one of our, uh, home care sectors which was just completely fraudulent, um, you know, b- backroom deals, bid rigging, uh, that created a state-sanctioned monopoly at $12 billion a year that-

[40:02] Speaker 5: Oh.

[40:03] Speaker 17: ... you know, we're, we're, we're continuing to combat. And, you know-

[40:06] Speaker 5: Why aren't we surprised?

[40:07] Speaker 17: ... the fraud in Minnesota. (laughs) Thank you.

[40:09] Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.

[40:09] Speaker 17: Well, the fraud in Minnesota was really a springboard for all this stuff. I mean, I've been-

[40:14] Speaker 5: Huh.

[40:14] Speaker 17: ... beating this drum in New York State for about a year and a half now.

[40:18] Speaker 5: Uh-huh.

[40:18] Speaker 17: But the fraud in Minnesota definitely, uh, springboarded us, uh, into a little more of the light, if you will. But my situation is very unique, because my situation's really a contracts fraud. It's what happens when legislature, you know, want to move something to one of their friends or political affiliates, but, you know, they have to follow the state constitutions and, and, you know, submit RFPs and all this stuff.

[40:46] Speaker 17: Uh, you know, which is all just smoke and mirrors-

[40:47] Speaker 5: What's an RFT?

[40:48] Speaker 17: ... in order to-

[40:49] Speaker 5: Tell our audience what an RFT is.

[40:51] Speaker 17: I don't-

[40:51] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[40:51] Speaker 17: Uh, request for a proposal, so when you put in a request to bid-

[40:56] Speaker 5: Request for a proposal. Ah.

[40:56] Speaker 17: ... bid on a project. Yup.

[40:58] Speaker 5: Well, it's easy to pay somebody off in payola, um, i- i- in order for you to get a lot of return, and you get to have that with other people's money. Case in point, both in education and in home health care in Minnesota, there were no kids, and there were no clients in any of those cases. So, people, innocent citizens, are getting, uh, hammered three different times. They're having their taxpayer money, uh, squandered and, and, uh, getting defrauded, and then when it comes to getting services, the services are, um, are completely cut by the very people-

[41:43] Speaker 17: Right.

[41:43] Speaker 5: ... the politicians who say, "We have to give more tax money because they don't have enough money to pay for services." Well, if they weren't giving it to their buddies, they probably would.

[41:54] Speaker 17: Uh, a hun- a hundred percent, you hit the nail on the head. And, you know, it's, uh, when you get all this kind of money, we're talking $12 billion a year for this one program in New York, right, and the, the financial accounting and the forensic accounting that you would need, because it's obvi- obviously this company is owned by private equity companies that own many companies, right? And so, you know, you, you really need to find where the money is going, what PACs, what company is distributing to what super PACs and what PACs, who, who was promised a board seat five years down the line after they get out of state government, right? And so, it's very, very confusing to follow, and it's not as, you know, blatant as a Nigerian stealing, you know, uh, uh, ser- uh, money from a social services program.

[42:41] Speaker 5: Uh-huh.

[42:41] Speaker 17: This starts at the top, right? This is the top-

[42:44] Speaker 5: Well, it's pretty blatant.

[42:46] Speaker 17: ... of where ... Yeah, it's very blatant.

[42:48] Speaker 5: It's pretty blatant. Uh, Julian, with all of this coming to, to light...I've had these conversations with friends who are extremely optimistic because it's coming to light. Well, just 'cause it's coming to light (laughs) doesn't mean it's going to be prosecuted, the people who defrauded American citizens, it'll be prosecuted. What do you see in the near future for having that done, people actually being held accountable and things actually turning around in a time we've got a window of opportunity to do that? Do you think something's gonna happen?

[43:26] Speaker 17: I, I, I ... All I can say is, I certainly hope. I know that in my case in New York, we've been working with the Department of Justice very closely. They have an active investigation into this bid-rigging claim. Uh, and so, you know, I can sit here and hope. Um, but what I've seen-

[43:43] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[43:43] Speaker 17: ... uh, from state government ... Because for years, I've b- w- you know, me and a few others that are part of many, uh, dis- uh, few different associations in the state have been going to Albany saying, "Hey, you need to watch out for fraud in this program. This ... These are ways to do it."

[43:58] Speaker 5: Oh.

[43:58] Speaker 17: You know? As a-

[43:58] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[43:59] Speaker 17: ... as a good-standing provider in the state-

[44:01] Speaker 5: Uh-huh.

[44:01] Speaker 17: ... I did not wanna see the program be disrupted on ... because of fraud. And so, as a good-standing provider, I went to the state and I said, "This is getting out of control. We need to do something." But what happened- (music)

[44:14] Speaker 5: Y- you hear the music.

[44:15] Speaker 17: ... Maria?

[44:16] Speaker 5: We're gonna have to-

[44:16] Speaker 17: I do, I hear that.

[44:16] Speaker 5: ... leave it there, but I will, I'll give you a slogan I made up a long time ago. When you go to the state government for help, it's like, uh, the arsonists are, um, in charge of the fire brigade. So that's-

[44:34] Speaker 17: That's what, that's what it seems like.

[44:36] Speaker 5: ... part of the problem. Thanks for your good work. We do appreciate your time, and we'll follow up. That's Julian Hagman.

[44:43] Speaker 17: Thank you.

[44:43] Speaker 5: Thank you. Well, we, uh, are gonna have to leave it there. Tune in every weekday for the Alan Nathan All Stars on the Main Street Radio Network.

[44:51] Speaker 4: The opinions you hear on the Main Street Radio Network are those of the hosts, callers, and guests, and not necessarily those of the station, Main Street Radio Network, its management, or advertisers. The information on the Main Street Radio Network does not constitute a recommendation, offer, or solicitation to buy or sell any product or securities. Please consult a professional before investing. If you have any questions or comments about Main Street Radio Network, contact us at 703-978-0600 or at our website, mainstreetradionetwork.com.