Speaker Identification
Speaker 1 - Host: Alan Steinfeld
Speaker 2 - Guest: Ross Coulthart
Speaker 3 - Inserted clip / quoted media audio: brief remarks from President Donald Trump and a reporter, as referenced during the conversation

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Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Welcome to New Realities, my name is Alan Steinfeld.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): If you've been watching this program, you know I'm obsessed with the UFO phenomena and the history and the undercurrent that's going on and one of the, I would say, the premier journalist of our time is today's guest, Ross Coulthart.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And how does an Australian journalist get the scoop on all these insiders in the US government?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): By using the skillset that I've been taught as an investigative journalist and doing what journalists should be doing and investigating the biggest story in human history.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I got into this quite a complete accident, to be perfectly honest.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I started out with a completely unjustified, I think a journalist should never do, a confirmation bias.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I left Australian 60 Minutes in 2018 where I'd been doing investigative stories for many years and I thought, what's a story that people tell me I can't do?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the biggest, most stigmatized, most taboo story in journalism is UAPs, UFOs, the phenomena of so-called flying saucers.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I'll be honest, I was very guilty of coming into it with a bias.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I thought this is rubbish, I'm going to disprove it and I'm going to make my glory by revealing the dark secrets of some American aerospace program that's really flying these craft.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it was kind of accidental, I was still working for 60 minutes and I was in Washington DC and I sent a message to a person I'd met in Afghanistan, quite a senior official.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I said, look, can I meet you in a bar and have a drink?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Just an intern, can we have a chat?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Got an idea I want to talk to you about.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I kind of expected him to laugh when I told him that I was going to write a book about UFOs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I remember feeling quite uneasy when I said I'm going to write about UFOs, he leaned across the table and said, they're real Ross.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I said, well, yeah, sure, we all know there's anomalous phenomena, but of course, you can't nonsense me, it's American, aerospace tech.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Clearly you guys have got something that's sitting in area 51, Nevada Test Range, that is only a matter of time before we find out about it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And he just kept on saying to me, it's real Ross.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And in the end, it prodded my curiosity and I'm now what's this gosh, nearly eight, yeah, probably eight years later, I'm in a position where I've gone completely 180, I've realized we've all been lied to.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Exactly.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Well, your interview with David Grusch, I feel was the third inflection point within the history of the phenomenon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We had Roswell 47, and then we had the New York Times headline in 2017.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And then we had the David Grusch interview where no one had heard of you before.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And suddenly, I was at contact in the desert, the room was packed when your interview came on, and we all just opened our mouth and said, this, this is it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So you're an important figure within the history of the phenomenon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm actually very uncomfortable with being put on a pedestal.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, no, no, in the sense that I actually think that the story of this whole saga is going to be one of incredible journalistic neglect.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've had it out with friends of mine in the New York Times, the Washington Post, major newspapers, major TV networks.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm a member of a group called ICIJ.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Which is the international consortium of investigative journalists.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And we've done international collaborations on tax fraud, on big tobacco, big farmer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I can remember asking friends of mine in the group, why aren't we looking at UFOs?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And we got this kind of default giggle, this kind of default ridicule.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I don't think it's at all justified.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think if any journalist did even the most basic research into this phenomenon, they would understand that not only is it real, that it's the biggest story ever.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And we've been lied to, and it should be investigated.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I was only watching the exchange from the White House press corps when a correspondent asked a question of Karoline Leavitt in the White House press room a few days ago.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And when he asked about aliens, there was this kind of little ripple of giggles, like a bunch of nervous school kids.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's not journalism.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's not journalism, and I'm so tired of the White House press corps treating this like a joke.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): When David Grusch, probably one of the most highly clear people in the US national security establishment, went public and was completely ignored by lame lickspittles to the national security state, like the New York Times and the Washington Post.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's breathtaking to me that the media are failing.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): But do you think that's because the Air Force purposely ridiculed people back in the 50s, and it's just been progressive like that?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, sadly, I think it's more than that now.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think journalists are being manipulated.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, I won't name them.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But the Wall Street Journal did a hit job on the whole subject of UFOs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Oh, yes, awful.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, there are associations with at least one of those journalists.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): In fact, both of them have got connections either back into private aerospace at a very senior level, or one of them had previous associations with the CIA front.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Now, what's the Wall Street Journal being used as an unwitting party, a proxy by the CIA or another intelligence agency, to plant what was a deceitful and manipulative story into the national media?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I see this all happening all the time in America.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's quite amazing.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You're right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And that was a problem with the Age of Disclosure, a great film, but there's a gap.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They mentioned the legacy program, and then they move on.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The legacy program is where that information needs to be revealed.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Look, I think to a large degree, the Age of Disclosure is an attempt by the national security state to try and constrain the narrative.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because we don't get to the core.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We're this huge hole in that film that coming out and saying, yeah, if we had an NDA, we could talk more.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): But who are the legacy program people?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's what maybe you don't know what you don't want to say.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But I've got a pretty good idea of who are involved, but I don't want to get sued.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The other thing too is I have sympathy for the people who had the courage to appear in the Age of Disclosure.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They're good people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They showed courage in coming forward.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I thought it was a bit rich that James Tapper, for example, as a former DNI, made a very qualified statement about being briefed into a program or aware of a program that was monitoring UAPs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He knows a hell of a lot more than that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know for a fact.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But it didn't take us closer to the finish line.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Look, let's go back in history a little bit.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What was going on in 2014, 2015?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's the most incredible period in history with UFOs, I think, because this is the moment when I do think the national security state thought Hillary Clinton was going to win the election.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They began what I think was a very structured attempt at a controlled disclosure.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They assumed Clinton was going to be president by 2015 and that she would be pushing for disclosure.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What did they do?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They briefed Tom DeLong.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They created or instigated the, I suspect, had an influence in the creation of To the Stars Academy.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They facilitated briefings by General Neil McCaslin, General Michael Carey, to very senior US Air Force generals, to brief Tom DeLong and others into an awareness of the fact that the United States was not only aware of a non-human intelligence on this planet, but that we'd recovered technology.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But they wanted to play down the technology part.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think that what TTSA was all along was really a structured narrative.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It was intended to try and control the narrative, to minimize the level of disclosure to the public, to play down the level to which the United States has been able to reverse engineer this technology.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I think, frankly, to attempt to conceal technologies from the public.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Even if Clinton would have won, they were there in place to play it down.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because you're saying that you've been playing?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, I think the role was, they knew the game was up if Clinton became president.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because the interesting thing about this whole story is to a great degree, Democrat presidents have not been briefed into this program.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Whereas I'd say more Republican presidents have been.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe they're seen as a safe appear of hands.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It goes back to Nixon and Eisenhower.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Nixon was Eisenhower's vice president.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So I think that's dangerous for a start, that you have a political whiff to the program, that it's taken a politically partisan position.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And more importantly, that there hasn't been the proper disclosure to Congress.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): In fact, there hasn't been any disclosure.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Totally illegal.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I think the problem is that we're in a situation now where they've dug themselves in a hole.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because I think if they're not quick, there's going to be a controlled, there's going to be a catastrophic place.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): In the US Congress isn't quick enough.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, no, I think Congress is asleep at the wheel.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't think they're going to.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think the president needs to be quick.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think the national security state, the people in charge of the legacy program, if they're not careful, the whole dirty secret is going to come spilling out in a way that it did, for example, with the church commission exposing the CIA's abuses in the 1970s.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's what I think needs to happen somehow.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I do think the best way of getting to the truth, though, I was very privileged as a journalist.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I got to see Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And people who'd been victims of the apartheid regime and people who'd perpetrated crimes under the apartheid regime were encouraged to tell all in a Truth and Reconciliation Commission in return for indemnity.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I make myself unpopular with a lot of people in the UFO community, because I actually think that's a good idea.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): To give amnesty to those who've been keeping the secrets and those who've been...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think it's perverse to try and criminalise or punish people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Certainly for people who've committed murders, I think that should be...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The capital crimes should be, I think, investigated.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): But what is really the big secret?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, yeah, there's technology.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's a league, I'm sure, people in the military, when they give craft to private industry, they're getting a kickback or something, perhaps.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But what is really the big secret is that technology is...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's not aliens because of the technology.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's the really interesting thing is I've had people satanly from within the program that there's really no good reason.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But the excuse that's often given is fear that revealing...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think you can reveal, and I think this is what Trump's possibly going to do.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We're going to see a scenario where the president is encouraged by the national security state to do a controlled dislosion, where what he does is, yes, there are non-human intelligence, there are aliens.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Obama was telling the truth the first time.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There are aliens, and they've been engaging with this planet for probably thousands of years.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But we can't tell you the rest because this is foreign adversary stuff.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We don't want to tell China or Russia or anything that gives them any kind of strategic advantage.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So, can't tell you any more.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Or they might actually just try and flat out lie and deny that they've got a reverse engineering program and say, look, we have recovered technology, but we really don't understand it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And we haven't been able to do much with it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And for that reason, this has to stay confidential.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We don't want to give the Russians and the Chinese any kind of an advantage.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I hate that national security excuse.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I actually suspect the real reason is, and I've seen this as a journalist myself covering security stories, secrecy becomes like a cancer, a reason for itself.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's kind of like meth for these security officials.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They just get off on knowing secrets that the risk of us don't have.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think it's nonsense.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think the exclusive national security has become a mantra that is unjustified.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): I agree.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think that what we've got is a situation where secrecy is the reason aside from itself.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Well, Danny Xi and Esta Elizondo, are they really worried about national security?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And Elizondo seem to say, no, the upper, the echelons are really not worried about that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's something more.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But I think one possible reason is, and I was shocked when I first discovered this, people have been murdered by who and why.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Why the national security state?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because they were going to reveal what would have been, why would they merge?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, I think you're right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's one incident that I know of and out of respect for the people who told me about it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm not going to reveal too much about what happened.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But there was a blue on blue where forces that were part of the United States military were deployed from JSOC to go to a location in Mexico.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And they were engaged by forces from a private aerospace company.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And because the private at one of the craft as well, and they killed the right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It was actually the aircraft.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And this was undisclosed.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And my understanding is, and I've had differing accounts about this, but certainly at least one JSOC soldier was killed.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And there's a question as to whether it was just not an out and out murder.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've heard one description that says that he was shot in the back of the head on his knees.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it was done as a demonstration of power by that private aerospace company, which is a very prominent private aerospace company.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Which is totally illegal though.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, but there is something imperialistic about the U.S.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): going into Brazil, going into Italy, going to Canada, Mexico, and taking craft from other countries.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Isn't there like an imperialistic attitude and approach?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): If I was the U.S., I'd be trying to get hold of as much of this technology as possible.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I would be ruthless.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Let me be clear.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm not a I'm not a creek of the national security state.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We are at this stage in our history in more danger, I think, than ever before, with a complete nut job in Putin.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He's an authoritarian thug in Moscow.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We've got a lunatic in North Korea.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And China is just dangerously authoritarian.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So there are good reasons for why the national security state exists.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And as a journalist, I've been made aware of things that have never been publicly revealed that have stopped us from catastrophe.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So I'm not totally critical of the national security state.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What I am critical of is a lack of accountability and transparency.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And ultimately, does your constitution matter?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Or doesn't it?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's a constitutional issue.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's the issue.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, it doesn't seem like it matters to some people that are around in office these days.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, I do think that lies at the heart of all of this is there's going to be a feeble excuse put up when this finally does break that there are presidential there's actually a series of presidential executive orders from the 40s through to the 50s, which have enshrined the secrecy of this whole cover up.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think as a title 50 COVID operation exemption.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I don't know what the legality is of that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm not a constitutional lawyer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I am a lawyer by training that I'm not a constitutional lawyer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But if a president if a commander in chief as they have done on numerous occasions have asked to be briefed about the legacy program about aliens, about what we know about aliens, and if they've been lied to or told that they're not cleared to know that, I just think that's absolutely outrageous.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because how could any president be bound by a prior executive order?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, the whole principle of the commander in chief being the president of the United States is so the president can make a fully informed decision about the most serious thing that any president can do, which is to take to come to the country to war.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And, you know, presidents make decisions that kill young men and women.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's a horrible decision to have to make.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's why you're right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We need a church commission by a strong executive leader say let's pull it all out.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Let's you know what I just think.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I just think it's pointless with Congress.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Congress has become such a tame lickspittle.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's so controlled.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, I thought my politicians in Australia were pretty hopeless, but the American political system it's so corrupt.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, you've got politicians making hundreds of millions of dollars and people just laugh about the fact that, you know, somebody who's earning a salary of a few hundred grand a year has got 400 million dollars in assets.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's one more element we're not really talking about here.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's the phenomenon itself.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): So is there directly between those in government or military with whatever the phenomenon is?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't think we even know what it is, but there's something out there for sure.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And they could be landing on the White House long little cliche, but they are somehow and maybe they're manipulating politicians.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe they don't want it out.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's the part that's the biggest mystery.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What is the phenomenon up to?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Why are they here?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Oh, gosh, I wish if I knew that I know everything.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, I think certainly there are agreements between the government and the others.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Okay.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So let me explain.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So in his defense office pre-publication security review, David Grusch referred to how there were agreements.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And in the interview that I did with him, I tried to explore that with him and he had to say, look, I'm really sorry, I can't go any further than that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But I thought it was amazing that he mentioned agreements.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's quite something.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And remember, this is evidence that he has verified under oath to the Congress.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's really important.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He's saying that there is some kind of agreement by implication between the United States and non-human intelligences.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And what does the White House press call do?

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What are the mainstream investigative media do?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They just completely ignore it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And that to me, I think is the key to this whole story.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe that's the reason why we can't know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Right.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know, what did Trump mean today when he said that Obama had breached national security secrets by talking about aliens?

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): How could there be national security secrets by talking about aliens if as the Pentagon's position is, there is no evidence of extraterrestrial engagement with planet earth.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What would authorize the Pentagon to lie on behalf of the government to the public in such a formal way and to make such assertions in the documentation that they've provided to the Congress?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Either members of the Pentagon are going to face criminal trial for misleading the Congress and showing contempt to the Congress in future, or there is some legal protection that they're operating under, that this perhaps this executive order that they're clinging on to with their fingernails, this vapor-thin thread to try and conceal the legacy program.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And maybe, maybe to give them an out.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe there is something in the agreement with non-human intelligences that we made that means they can't reveal it to the public, to protect us.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm just speaking.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know you don't know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I'd love to hear your speculation because he says the Eisenhower, it's a myth in the way Eisenhower met with the aliens and extreme.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't think that's a myth at all.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, maybe in that he said, okay, you can take some of our citizens and their DNA in exchange for technology.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Oh, yeah, you're suggesting that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't know.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): But what do you suspect the agreement?

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What do you think was the Holloman Air Force?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I do think the meeting took place at Holloman Air Force Base, and I do think Eisenhower was involved.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I mean, a lot of it's on the historical record.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Certainly, there were agreements made.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What those agreements were, I don't know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And there's certainly been alien abduction of humans from...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah, it's really funny.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I would have, I would have violently disagreed with you about that a few years ago and gone that, you know, that's just crazy.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It is crazy.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Crazy nonsense.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And then I read John Mack's book about abductions.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And since I, on my own show, started soliciting people to talk to me about it, I've just been overwhelmed with good people who, after a while, you just get overwhelmed with data points where you think, I mean, there is a point in journalism where we've heard so much firsthand testimony.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): First-hand testimony is witness testimony.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): People go to jail and get sentenced to death on the basis of first-hand witness testimony.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And so when I've heard it from so many witnesses, they've been the victims of abduction, often military abductions.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'll freely admit, the first couple of times I heard it, I thought these people were crazy.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm not so sure now.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, let's look at that as a possibility and all the things, all the strange things you've been involved with and, you know, maybe a psychic phenomenon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Also, you had talked to Whitney Streeper and there's something else about the nature of reality.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Reality check is checking to another level.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So how do you put, if you're going to form a cosmology of all the strange things you've encountered in the last year, it would be more than a materialistic point of view.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think the Jacob Barber thing was a beautiful moment in history.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, I'm actually going to be talking about this in my speech on Saturday.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm fascinated with the fact that when you scratch somebody from the legacy program and ask them what this is all about, they don't get excited at all about aliens, they just take that figure out it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They're not really that interested in the technology.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What they all start talking about is consciousness.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I'm fascinated by how, in our understanding of quantum mechanics, quantum science, the double split experiment, how can a wave be both a particle and a wave at the same time?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, it's utterly illogical.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's the incommensibility of quantum science.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): How do we explain this?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the thing that blows me away more than anything else is the idea that what we call physical matter are reality.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's not the case that our consciousness is derived from the lump of brain cells, the neurons that we've got in our brain.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It would appear it's all the other way around.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Everything matter, reality is derived from consciousness.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): This is a very, very difficult concept to understand.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Believe me, I wrestle with it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm not a scientist.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But the science, this is the hilarious thing.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You've got materialist reductionist science for the last 500 years has said it's not real unless you can see it, observe it, measure it, test it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And if you can't do that, then it's not real.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the problem we have is what this whole conference is about.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There are things that people are describing, experiencing, verifying, witnessing, which don't fit into that mechanistic view of science, that reductionist view, the deterministic view of cause and effect.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Phenomenal like psychical phenomena, which science in order to deal with it, science just said, oh, it's not true.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It can't be there for it isn't.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And now we've got wonderful people like Dr.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Diane Hennacy Powell, who's done that great work with Julia Mossbridge and Ky Dickens to reveal the non-verbal autistic kids, really are experiencing something that is a non-local consciousness form of communication.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And that to me is, I think, the problem that was stuck in at this moment in the 21st century that we had this, I think, dominant scientific materialist paradigm that dominates the world.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it's wrong.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it's changing.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's why we're here this weekend.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And when I teach remote viewing, I learned it from Russell Targ and then I went out in the world and taught 200 people to ship network.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's something about a non-locality of awareness that we have access to through probably the right brain, which is the master, if you read Iain McGilchrist's book, The Master in the Emissary, that's what we've misled that the left brain, the logical mind thinks it knows everything.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, what these autistic kids are showing us, it's not about thinking, it's about direct knowing.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And dare I say, I know this is going to sound corny and I'll sound like a total captain wearing hippie.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's all about love.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, that was what was so beautiful about the Jacob Barber interview.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Let's talk about that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's very funny with Jake because he really is, he's a modern life James Bond.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, he's trained to tier one level, delta force sort of level, STS24, air force, special forces level.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He's diverted into a secret program where he becomes what's called a knock, a non-official cover operative for the CIA, I believe.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He's never told me, but I'm pretty sure it's the CIA.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And he becomes a kind of a superspy working on plausibly deniable operations for the US.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You don't think of somebody like that who knows how to kill you in 100 different ways as being somebody who starts talking about love and being overwhelmed by something.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And breaking down in tears on your show, National Television.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, and he told me before he did it, he said, look, I know I'm going to cry.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I can't talk about it without crying.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I said, well, cry away, brother.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I think the thing about it is, what are we?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's no, nearly two years since Jake gave that interview.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Here's a guy, people were saying to me, you know, where's the first hand evidence?

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know, David Grusch wasn't firsthand.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know, he's only relating what he's being told, which by the way isn't true.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And so I thought, okay, well, this one will knock them out of the park.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Jake Barber.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What does the UFO community do?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It spends probably 80% of the time trying to find a way of shafting him.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Not the people I know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, but I truly have had it with the whole UFO community.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They are the biggest bunch of backbiting, knife-stabbing, whining people I've ever come across.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I truly have had it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): All they do is winge all the time.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's this kind of point scoring.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You have to stay off Twitter though.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Those guys are animists.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, no, no, but it's just hilarious because it's kind of like, you know, every time somebody like myself, sweat blood to persuade somebody like David Grusch or Jake Barber to come to the podium and actually sit down and say as an honorable human being, I want to testify.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I want to tell you the truth.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Along come these bloviated blowhards on UFO Twitter who basically go, no, no, it's not true.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, he's doing it for us.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah, it's a bunch of people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Most of them in this room do not that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, no, no, but I just wanted to take a swipe at them on the way through.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's good fun because seriously, these people have risked everything.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There were times during my dealings with Jake Barber where I honestly thought he'd been murdered.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There was one period of time.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've talked about this before at contact in the desert, actually, and she started crying on stage and I was so embarrassed I had.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I had to turn my head and walk away from the podium.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He told me that he was going to go and talk to the private aerospace company that he was nominally working for as an undercover operative.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That was his cover.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And that was where he'd been doing retrieval operations at a place he euphemistically called the range.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And he sits on me.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He authorized me.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We've both done a dead man switch.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's how seriously we take this.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And he'd authorized me that in the event of him not being back within 48 hours to push the switch.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It means I would go public with everything I know about Jake Barber.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And you haven't done that yet?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I haven't done that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it's essentially, I see it as my lifeline to stop these thugs from coming and killing me or Jake because they are thugs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They've murdered people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The company Jake worked for has murdered people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I just want to say that again, they have murdered people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): A private aerospace company working for the US government has murdered people probably with the authority of the US government to protect the secret.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's what people like Jake and David Grusch are risking to go public.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So the secret must be so big, bigger than we maybe can imagine.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe you know more.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But I can't imagine what would be if it's just equipment, hardware, if it's consciousness, if it's love.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, is it about changing the materialistic paradigm?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So capitalism falls apart or something like that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, what?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I do think I mean, it's funny.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I never bought into conspiracy theories about the petrodollar.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But I'd never understood it properly.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I was listening to, I think it was Anthony Scaramucci actually was on his show, the Ristus, the Ristus Politics US.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I love Anthony.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I love him and Katie Kay.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And they talk a lot about Trump.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And he was talking about the significance of the petrodollar and how I think Kissinger went to the Saudis in the 70s and basically locked in that the only currency that can be used to buy oil is the US dollar.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And in the recent years, China and Russia have both tried to break that by creating their own private trading.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I think that's what a lot of what Gaddafi was all about.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's a lot of what Iran's all about because Iran's been doing trading with both Russia and China.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Imagine if all of a sudden overnight, let's hypothetically assume that there is zero point energy and that there is an unlimited source of energy that can be derived from the quantum vacuum.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's not be hypothetical.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Let's say it's real.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What would that do overnight to the top 100 on the US stock exchange?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It would pretty much annihilate them.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And if you're the US government, the president who's thinking short term about the next four years, why the hell would you do anything to threaten the petrodollar?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, that's just a grim reality.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because it's going to save the world from toxicity.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's going to make a general equality.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Of course, they don't care about that politicians.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But it's not their brief.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But it is the answer to the situation and the kind of death-dive Western culture, materialistic cultures in right now.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And so we have to push for that as a disclosure population for maybe that's a fantasy.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You'll just like really are you really?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think it's I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm just I'm very straight talk now.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, I want to hear what you have to say.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I just think it's completely nonsense.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't think there's any possibility to all of disclosure unless Trump has a conduction because Obama is challenging him by aliens and suddenly decides to go, you know what?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't think Trump is smart enough to do that.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): So what do we do?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You're collecting such valuable information not to put you on a pedestal, but some of your interviews have been huge to push this movement forward with hope and possibility.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What do we do as a population wanting to know what's out there wanting to meet the others?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think it could easily go another hundred years.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I was just last week standing outside a location where I absolutely know there is a deep underground military base which has retrieved non-human craft and is attempting to reverse engineer those technologies.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've spoken to people who operate inside that base.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've explored the different access points.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know the doorways and in fact I've provided that information to Congress.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Other people have as well.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You know what's happened with that?

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Did Lee squat?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Fuck all.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because they don't want the...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Is it the peter...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Is the money?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Is it their...

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What is stopping them from like Luna?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): She's got Schutzba.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yes, of course it has.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And so has Eric Burlison.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know maybe what's her name?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Ocasio-Cortez.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yes, I love her.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yes.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There are a few.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean the senators are a dead loss frankly.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, it's awful.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But no, look, but the UAP caucus frankly, there are a good bunch of people Tim Burchett here.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Love the guy.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But they're very weak and powerless.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know even the chairperson of the oversight committee that Tim and Co are part of, he has to approve any use of subpoena for example.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know they've got a really rigid control over who can be called, what can be done, and then they're using it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee, they are such a joke.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But things change like Vietnam War.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): People were marching in the street, they showed up in Washington, black liberation, it was a people's movement and that's the other aspect of this.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's more and more experiences coming forward.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't see any people's movement at all frankly.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think it's probably, you know, there's obviously the people in this room.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know, we're all motivated to find out the truth.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But I reckon if you walked out the door and walked to somebody on the street and asked them about whether or not they should know about aliens, they'd just giggle and walk away half the time.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's been such an effective scyop run on the public that this is a subject to be mocked and ridiculed to the extent that even the elite of the press in America, the White House press corps, a joke, they giggle when somebody stands up and asks a question about aliens.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, today you had a very, very good question.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I wish I could remember the name of the guy who asked it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But young man stands up on Air Force One, door stops the president and says, Mr.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): President, what about this Obama comment about aliens?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Are aliens real?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They're real, but I haven't seen them.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And they're not being kept in, what is it?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Area 51.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Barack Obama said that aliens are real.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Have you seen any evidence of non human visitors?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, he gave class of right information.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He's not supposed to be doing that.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): So aliens are real?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, I don't know if they're real or not.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I can tell you he gave class of right information.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He's not supposed to be doing that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He made a big mistake.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He took it out of class of right information.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, I don't have an opinion on it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I never talk about it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): A lot of people do.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): A lot of people believe it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Do you believe it Peter?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I will, if the president can declassify anything that he wants to.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, maybe I'll get him out of trouble.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I may get him out of trouble by declassifying.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There are a few things President Trump said that are incredibly important.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The first is he acknowledged that what Obama said was classified.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it's funny.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): A lot of people are leaching on to the fact that Obama said, yes, there are aliens.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I actually don't think that admission is the one that got Obama into trouble in the eyes of Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think if there was anything that Obama said that was in any way compromising, it was this.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's no underground facility unless there's this enormous conspiracy and they hit it from the president of the United States.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's Obama very deliberately planting a seed.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because he knows there are deep underground bases.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know he knows because he's been briefed.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because the other thing he did very, very carefully in that Q&A, I was so frustrated with shouting as I was watching the video.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He made a very clear delineation between what he was aware of when he was the president and after.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He talked about not during my presidency.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the reason why as I am told, as presidents are allowed to do, he requested and received a briefing on UAP's post presidency.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I challenge anybody from the White House Press Corps to go and ask President Obama that and see how he answers.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): See if he answers that question straight.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, I will.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But you are keeping us up to date.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Whistleblowers are talking to you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There is movement within this field.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): But why do you keep doing what you're doing?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You're making a big story.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The thing I love about it as a journal is I went into journalism because I was working as a lawyer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And in law, you have to be constantly subservient and counter-total authority.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And basically, yes sir, no sir.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You're the client.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You're paying my bills.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've got to be nice to you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): In journalism, you are encouraged to cause mischief.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's fantastic.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's so much fun.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I couldn't believe as a journalist that you could walk up.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): My first experience with an Australian Prime Minister, I was told we were going to go and do a doorstop of an Australian Prime Minister, who I will not name.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And we turn up at a hotel room.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it was odd because I knew he lived in Sydney, but this was a hotel room in Sydney.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the person who answered the door was a Prime Minister in a dressing gown.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And there was a young female lying on the bed who was not his wife.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I remember this was my eye-opener to the world of politics.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There was this clear understanding that if you come in and you doorstop me, you'll ignore the young Maori hooker on the bed and you'll get on and do this interview in the corner and you'll just ignore this young lady.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I remember thinking to myself, my god, this is the reality of politics.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the thing that all the way through my life is the deceit and the duplicity in politics.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The number of times there would be leaks in quarries by politicians where the minister would stand up at a podium and say, you know, that story by Ross Coulthartt obviously involves the leaking of confidential information.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We're going to do a leaks inquiry.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And nine times out of ten, it was he who leaked the document.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the duplicity and lying in politics is what worries me, that there's a grim reality with politics that the kind of people who enunciated principle and belief in constitutional rights and ideas that don't exist anymore.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And we're in a very bad period in politics where we're not well served.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): People think in the short term, they're thinking three, four years ahead, not what's the best thing for humanity in 20 years time.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So you have a great overview of this phenomenon as good as anyone.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): People are coming to you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Is there a way, I know you said not for 100 years, but if you were in charge of disclosure of bringing what, how would you create the scenario?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I would leak.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Are people coming to you leaking?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think there's a possibility, sooner rather than later, I suspect, that somebody is just going to make a catastrophic disclosure because they can see the writing on the wall.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): One of the things that happens in the sinking ship is the rat's leave very quickly.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They start looking at each other and wondering who's going to dob each other in.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It happened in the Nazi regime in the form of 1945.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I think if there are crimes that have been committed, people are going to start positioning themselves thinking, I need to get ahead of the pack on this.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There are.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There are already.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Let me tell you, they are already.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's why I've been talking about catastrophic disclosure.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm on your tail, guys.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I really am.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm not boasting about this.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There are people talking to me from inside the legacy program.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Not only do they want this story out, they can see that if they don't do it, somebody else is going to write the narrative their way.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So it is happening.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You're saying to me.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think, you know, I honestly thought when Jake Barber came up publicly, the reason I'm cynical and depressed about the UFO community is I honestly thought when Jake Barber came up, here is a guy giving them everything they want, first hand witness, testifying about his direct involvement in the retrieval of an alien spacecraft.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): With footage, that used the play.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): With footage, but it wasn't him doing that particular retrieval.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That was another one.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What fascinates me is the way that not just the UAP community, but the mainstream legacy media immediately didn't look at the central issue behind the implications of what he was actually saying, which is there is a retrieval program.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I am a former CIA officer working under deep cover for an aerospace company who has been in retrieval programs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Now, I know Jake has testified to Congress.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know that because we took him there, we escorted him there and filmed him going into the building.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know the committee in Congress has heard his detailed evidence about literally, this is where you need to go to find the alien flying saucers.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): These are the principles in this particular company who are involved in the cover up and who liaise with these people in JSOC in the Defense Department.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Congress has been captured.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't know why.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, you saw it in the overturning of the UAP disclosure laws off the end of last year.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We had a unique opportunity to finally get into the National Defense Authorization Act.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Laws that as Danny Sheehan would tell you, would have enshrined the right of any citizen to go to government and reveal all.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): One huge flaw with those laws, by the way, was that they would have to go to AARO, which is the Pentagon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Oftentimes.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The rise really stupid, beautiful office.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Luna call them outright liars.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They are outright liars.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, they're good people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There are some great people there, but people like John Kozloski are operating under DIA edict.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They are under orders not to reveal what they really know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So you're saying there are people who are coming forward telling you, there's leaking happening, but there's not like someone standing up in front of Congress saying, I'm breaking my NDA right now, and this is what's happening.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't know what it would take.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I actually think that if a UFO landed on the White House lawn right now, there'd be some carping commentator from UAP social media who would go, you know what?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's just a CIA plot.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Don't believe.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's AI.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I mean, truly, I just don't get it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I don't know what would take it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Even if Trump stood up and said UFOs are real, aliens are real, I don't even know if people would believe it.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe it has to take a change in consciousness.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know, I knew John Mack, and he said, UFOs are like an outreach program from the cosmos for the consciously impaired.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): This is where I think it's getting interesting.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): When you started talking about consciousness, I'll freely admit maybe three, four years ago, I would have thought, what a old hippie, you know, I would have thought, what a loaded couple.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because you've been brainwashed, man.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah, yes.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the thing that I find is fascinating is, I'm talking about this on Saturday.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'll tell you the story.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): In one day, about two years ago, I spoke to three people in a day, and they were all telling me about these downloads they'd been getting.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Two of them were scientists.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): One of them was an artist.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I deliberately lumped them together because I wanted to be able to concentrate as I listened to them to know how to question them methodically.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it's a huge amount of work.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Often it's some of these interviews take six hours, you know, really long.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And what really impressed me was when I said to them, take me through how these downloads happen.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know, what were the colors involved?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I remember one of them just casually said to me, either the being was blue.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I went, what?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You didn't talk about beings before.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I went, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, there were beings there as well.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I go, wow.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And then at the end of the next conversation, another one said to me, I said, what color was it?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I just used a psychological thing.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I went, I used it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I didn't say what was I talking about.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I said, what color was it?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And he said, they were blue.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I said, what was blue?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it was kind of like they then went, oh, stuff, cognitive dissonance.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah, the being, yeah, yeah, the being was blue.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Three people in one day referred to blue beings.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And then over a week, five people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So I thought, I'll just put this out there.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I like just planting a seed.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I said, so I want to talk to people today about the blue guys.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Has anyone out there who's had these experiences, these downloads, has anybody had encounters with blue beings?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm going to call them the blue guys.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Oh my God, hundreds.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm still getting them.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Hundreds of people from all over the world, data points, independent data points, guidance and bad.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We are just screaming at me, wanting to tell me about what happened.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It was fascinating.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): So what do you make of it?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Okay.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think it's possible going back to what we talked about at the beginning of this interview, if we're talking about a non-local consciousness, if everything is connected in space and time, what if what we are is plugged into some kind of cosmic internet and it's got a kind of an intelligence behind it?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And what if it manifests to people as blue beings?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've got no idea.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I can't explain that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've got no way of explaining it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It sounds completely crazy.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): But what if the whole thing, UFOs, anomalous phenomena, cyclical phenomena, downloads, telepathy, remote viewing, all of that, what if all of it is enhanced or achieved through the capacity of the human brain to operate like a transducer?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That this idea of our brains as a meat computer that all it does is process neurons, process information.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I remember a really depressing book written by Stephen Hawking, which basically talked about how we really don't have free will because we are essentially meat computers.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And Hawking's pushed in his book, the idea that the idea of consciousness is really an illusion.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We're not really conscious.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): This is just a pretend thing because when we die our brains rot and whatever we were, rots with us.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, that's his materialistic perspective.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's the mechanistic material of the view of humanity.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yes.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And here I was getting literally, I mean, it's got to the point where I've got a file on my computer called blue guys.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I just go, oh Christ, there's another one.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I can't be bothered reading that right now.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I promise you, I do read them eventually, but there's just hundreds of them.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And people are beautiful because I think the best witnesses are people who speak from the heart and engage with the passion of what they're encountered.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And hundreds of people have contacted me wanting to talk about the blue guys.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, you know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And so I don't know what the answer is, but what I am persuaded to is we are not meat computers.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, maybe you're part of this whole situation and you're a conduit for the truth.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Okay.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And so that's what I'm working towards.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What I'm working towards is the idea.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Thank you for leading me on that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm working towards the idea that maybe the NHI have given up with government because I think they want to be known about.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think so too.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I think what's happening, I don't buy the idea that the drones phenomena so cool that existed over supposedly the East Coast and supposedly over just New Jersey.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's worldwide.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It is.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It is.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Worldwide people have been experiencing anomalous phenomena, perhaps representing itself as drones or as implausible aircraft, which aren't drones.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's manifesting its the phenomenon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): If as we understand it has a capacity to manipulate human consciousness, our perception, and probably even the cameras that we use, why is it implausible to think that there might be a non-human intelligence that is slowly acculturating us to the fact of its existence?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's your right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Trying to avoid an ontological shock by slowly twigging our awareness.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I'm really struck.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): One of the things I love doing is I love talking to scientists, even though I'm not capable of understanding most of a scientific American article beyond about the first three paragraphs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I love engaging with scientists.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And years ago, he keeps on coming back to me all the time.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's a guy called Professor Michael Denton who I interviewed when I was about 25.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And he's a genetic biologist.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've forgotten Michael if I've forgotten the correct term for you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But he talked to me about how the theory of evolution was only a hypothesis.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it didn't make sense because he'd looked at the rates of mutation that occur naturally in mutation.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it didn't explain the development of the human forebrain.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It didn't explain everything about our universe.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It couldn't possibly have been developed with just the theory of natural selection.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it's really interesting because the term he used was a cosmic shove.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The idea that there was something external that was pushing humanity in a certain direction.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And maybe, I hope it is, maybe it's a benevolent intelligence.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's just gently guiding our evolution.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And maybe you're part of that big picture because you're bringing truth to people from insiders that would normally speak.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Do you think somehow you've been directed to?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Or not to make...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm worried if I said yes, I've heard people who accuse me of having a god complex.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I honestly think I'm just a journalist in a story.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And that's the thing to me that I find most amusing about this is, I mean, look, I'm flattered by the attention that I get from people who care about this subject matter.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's very kind of people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I can't walk through an airport these days without being stopped by somebody wanting to talk about UFOs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And that's great.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I love it.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I love being engaged with by my audience.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But I honestly believe this should be a story that is being pursued by all journalists.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think it's the most exciting thing happening ever to the human race.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What are the key mysteries, the conundrums, that we all ask ourselves as we start getting philosophical?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The first is, are we alone?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the second is, what happens to us after we die?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because the implications of this are what we just talked about, non-local consciousness, it explains both.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It explains the phenomenon in the sense that there is some kind of telepathic communication, psychical phenomenon, psionic ability, that we can connect with a non-human intelligence that perhaps is guiding our evolution and our beginning of our understanding about what we really are.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But it might also be that when we die, we're not a lump of meat that just rots into the ground and disappears and made no impact on the world.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe just maybe we have a soul of consciousness that lives after our dear.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think you've named it that New Death Experience After Life Experience, the phenomena, the autistic kids that seem to be connected to this cosmos, and they just channel these answers, it means that reality has to be different than what we've been told and we're in the midst of a whole paradigm adjustment where it says that these things are real, consciousness exists.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Oh absolutely, and I mean, as I said earlier about the double-slit experiment, quantum mechanics has proven scientifically, we know that the universe is not explainable in the mechanistic, deterministic way that conventional orthodox science tries to do.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it's funny because I've got a lot of physicist friends, a mate of mine in Australia, who I went through university with, went to study book, and he ended up abandoning physics because he got so depressed about the fact that there is this incredible dilemma at the heart of modern physics, which is it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It doesn't, but string theory is the dominant paradigm that has been sought to explain physics for the last 50 to 100 years, and it doesn't work.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It doesn't explain our universe, and as things come out more and more in quantum physics, and we realise more and more that waves are particles, particles are waves, that everything is connected, you know, there is no reality, that consciousness influences matter and reality, it's the complete opposite of the deterministic mechanistic science that we've relied on since Descartes.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it's not working, it doesn't explain our universe.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It doesn't explain, you know, what they call the hard questions of science, like how can these cells create this great awareness, that's the hard question, how does it create consciousness, this material thing, create this immaterial awareness, and Diane Hennacy said, consciousness is only the hard problem, that's the end result, but if you start with consciousness, then we create a world where...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Oh look at what's happening with Diane Kydickens and Julia Mossbridge at the moment, I mean they came on my show and they talked about the fact that they're in the process of preparing a paper that will be hopefully the world's first peer-reviewed proof, definitive proof of this non-local consciousness.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And you know what, they know, and I know, that orthodox science will hunt them down, like gain and kill them mercilessly, theoretically, you know, with their attempts to reclaim this heresy.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's just like Copernicus, I mean it is incredible what we are in at the moment, we are in a system where there is a dominant orthodox paradigm that is suppressing the understanding of what science has already verified is real anomalous phenomena.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): SRI proved that 50 years ago.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Oh but they didn't, no, they did prove it because...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Of course they did, yeah, of course I know, but there's like you, there's government agencies that are using that all the time, Elizondo said that on your show, when you said it's really true, and you said absolutely.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): No, no, I've spoken to people who are doing remote viewing for the Defence Department right now.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, someone here in the audience, Dr.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Hertach saw the pyramids on Mars before NASA published it, he calls them up and said, I'm getting a vision of pyramids on Mars, and they say, by the way, here's the picture.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I tweeted this afternoon actually about an almost perfectly cylindrical object that was found on the surface of Mars by the rover, and all I did was just blow up an image that a podcaster put up on his podcast and basically said, isn't it amazing what the climate of Mars can do, it's shaping now perfect cylindrical objects, and within probably two minutes on the comments, I just sat there and watched, within two minutes on the comments, you can always see them because they're normally completely anonymous, they call themselves one, two, three, eight, so I know, because I've spoken to somebody who works in one of these units, there are military units that go around sowing disinformation in the comments on social media to try and play down public interest in this subject there.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've just done recently a series of stories with a wonderful guy, Dr.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Manali D'Akshani, who just went through a lot of what's been previously revealed by people like Ken Johnson and Richard Hoegland, anomalies on the moon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's had one of the biggest hits that we've ever had on this story, this huge public interest in the fact that NASA is clearly lying and concealing evidence.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There is obvious evidence of digital smearing, of the fakery, to try and disguise what's really there on the moon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the Mars face on Mars as well, they sorry, I've disguised.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): So Ross, putting all this together, talk about how your worldview, it seems like it's shifting, where are you at now, if you want to share personally, like you're not the mechanistic, like, how do you see the world?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm certainly a more spiritual person than I ever was, I'm also more optimistic.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I had an event at Esalen with a psionic called Jordan Sather.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've heard about that one.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Jordan's probably at the time the lead psionic for Skywatcher, and I introduced him to Skywatcher because he reached out to me and told me his story and I said, you should meet Jack Barber in the rest of his history.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And he's been doing a lot of the successful inviting or summoning for Skywatcher where they've been able to obtain imagery.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And before Skywatcher got up and running, Alex Clocus, who's the financier for Skywatcher, invited me to Esalen, which is a beautiful, gosh, it's a beautiful place.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Where all this began in Esalen.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah, it did.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And there are beautiful people there, absolutely stunningly beautiful people there, very spiritual, and there was a real beauty about the place that really struck me.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): One thing Alex did that was very clever, and I don't think there's enough of this in eulology, the importance of the feminine, feminine divine.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He deliberately made 50% women, 50% men.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think that made a huge difference.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): From the get-go, there was a feeling of reciprocity, love, kindness.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There was a real feeling, a good feeling there.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I'll freely admit I'm a terrible skeptic and cynic, so I thought I'll load a crystal gazing nonsense.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): This is complete rubbish.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We were invited by Jordan to come to a summoning.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He was going to do a demonstration of his psionic abilities, and I thought, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it was at 10.30 at night.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, he came to me and he said, Ross, I have a really clear picture in my head that we're going to see a blue hexagon tonight.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I said, gee, that's a big call.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So 10 o'clock at night, Jordan lies down on a yoga mat next to the Pacific Ocean.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's just a magnificent night.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The stars are out.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's gorgeous, beautiful night.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We're all full of love.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We lie down on yoga mats and we all start meditating and inviting whatever it is to come and be with us.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And within a few seconds, Jordan says, I'm engaged.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And he says, horizon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So I looked at the horizon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Out there on the horizon, these two objects wink into existence.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They're two orbs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And then this, I won't embarrass him.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He's quite a prominent Silicon Valley gazillionaire, Chinese guy who was at Tiananmen.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He stands up and he goes, we love you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We love you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Come closer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I can't quite believe this.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm thinking, this is crazy stuff.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And they come closer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And then the whole audience gets up and starts getting excited and going, come closer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Come closer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We love you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And expressing love.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm sorry, but it's true.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Expressing love.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And they are responding very overtly to expressions of love.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They come fairly close.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And then after a while, they fade away and zoom off.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I say to Jordan after that, I think, wow, that was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Didn't see you blue hexagon though.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And almost simultaneously, you have to understand, Esalen's got these beautiful hot springs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Those tubs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And if I was an alien, I would have been doing what the aliens did, which is there were all these boys and girls back naked in these hot springs, having a really nice time together and enjoying the night, sort of sitting in the hot springs, looking out over the Pacific, I would have been doing that too if I wasn't a man of 63.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And thinking that it's probably a bit creepy for a guy my age to be sitting in a bath full of supermodels.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So I stayed a respectful distance.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But it was hilarious, because one of these young women came running up to me.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And because I'd spoken the previous night, she said, Ross.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And she showed me what they'd just photographed.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And we went and had a look.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There on the beach was a blue hexagonal orb.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And they'd all been sitting in the hot springs.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And as they were sitting in the hot springs, this kind of translucent blue mist had started appearing.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And the photographs I've got, you can actually see faces inside the mist.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think they're faces.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've seen things.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And it's phenomenal, because as they watched, and eventually as we watched, you know, it moved and sat down on the beach and turned into a blue hexagon.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That was the moment where I went, holy cow, this is real.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I've seen it quite a few times since.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): The fact that it's real now, because it is real for you, how does that change everything else that has come up to that point?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It makes life fun.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It really does.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's kind of like, well, I know they're lying.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Whatever it is, at least that appears to be benevolent and extraordinarily kind.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And probably sooner rather than later, we'll know the answer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, I hope so.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I hope you keep going with all that you're doing, because your work is making a difference for a lot of people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Thank you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And we need more people like you, not to put you on a pedestal, but you've had enough insight and courage to go after the people who have the secret Jacob Barber, Gary, Noah, and David Grusch.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I want to know how you got to meet him and how do that whole thing.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): How do you get your, why am I going to ask you this?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'll tell you that story one day.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It'll be too dangerous to tell it in full man.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You do get this one last, because you do get some information that seems to be contrary, like the fact that the Tic Tac was a military, a lot of people had a problem with that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You know what it was?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I actually think a lot of people have got this kind of, it's all got to be aliens.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We can't let something challenge our dominant paradigm reality.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I suspect that there are people pushing the aliens' Tic Tac, because I'm not saying all the Tic Tacs are Lockheed Martin.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm saying that one was.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Even though Fravor said so high?

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): How could Fravor know?

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): How would he know one way or the other?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): By what he said.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah, he has a no effect.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I've got sources who've told me that Lockheed Martin was operating that Tic Tac.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You sure are not giving you just information to me?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, it could be.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Sure.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Well, how do you know when someone comes in?

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What's your...

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because what journalists generally use is they use multiple sources.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Multiple independent sources as a way of verifying information.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's what police do when they're investigating a case.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You need a witness, you get a statement, you look at that statement, you test the evidence.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): You go to another witness, you independently interview them, you see whether that evidence matches that evidence and see what the inconsistencies are.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's basic investigative journalism and police work.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It's what lawyers do when they test a case under cross-examination.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I have spoken to people who have consistently told me that.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I may be wrong.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Oh, I don't know.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But I hope it is aliens.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): It'd be great if it was.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And think about this.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Kevin Day on the USS Princeton in the days prior to the Tic Tac incident had seen dozens of such objects on his screen.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): He didn't know if they were Tic Tacs or not.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But he saw on his radar screen dozens of such objects that were clearly not US technology.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So there was clearly something there.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I think the cover up has been so phenomenally effective.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm cynical about whether there's anything that will prod the needle.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I sometimes wonder if there's like a mental psychical gag on the planet's consciousness that stops the met from a pandemic.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There were 200 people in the room on June 5th, 2023 when you aired the crush interview on NewsNation.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): At least that's a contact in the desert.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe not.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yeah, but there are, what is it, 8 billion people on the planet?

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Most of them think aliens are nonsense.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's, they've been brainwashed.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They think all they're here to do is sit in front of a television set.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So, sure.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I'm not saying there aren't alien craft buzzing into the California coast.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): What I'm saying is we need to be very careful that we're not being misled by sections of the national security state that don't want you and me to know what they've developed and what they've been able to reverse engineer.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And particularly how they've been able to jury rig non-human craft in a way that allows them to operate those craft probably, scionically.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): That's the story.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There could be, there are people talk about their minds melding with the craft or the alien consciousness driving the craft because they go inside.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There's no- That's what I saw in Esalen.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I do believe Jordan was inside, whether you can call it a craft or not, something.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): So my contention is whatever those aliens, whoever they are, we have the same facility as human beings to do like Jordan, but he's maybe more developed.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): But each of us have that capacity if we could just break out of the shell, the prison, that culture, society, politics, media has put us in this little narrow band of being able to think what consciousness is.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I hope you're right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I love that idea.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You know, I love Harry Potter.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I love that idea of a little boy being told, you have a wizard Harry.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And I love the idea that we're all capable of these abilities.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And we just don't realize.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, let's try some remote viewing.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I would genuinely love how to learn how to remote view.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): One of the fundamental problems I have is I'm working so hard at the moment that every time I try and meditate, I fall asleep.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Come to our class on Sunday.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): We'll give you a private lesson here.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Sure, you're right.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Because all you have to do is get out of the way and your consciousness goes to the target with intent.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Anyway, Ross, I appreciate you, appreciate everything you're doing.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): You are at the edge cutting edge of this phenomena.

Speaker 1 - Host (Alan Steinfeld): Maybe it'll never happen, but at least you're trying to make the truth possible, feasible, and tangible for people.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): And that's making it different.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Well, it's fun doing it along the way.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Thanks very much, y'all.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): I very much appreciate you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Cheers.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Thank you.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Ross Coulthart, we've got an eye.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): Yes.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): There you go.

Speaker 2 - Guest (Ross Coulthart): They appreciate you.