[00:01] Speaker 1: (circa 1950s music) Chuck and Julie, bringing you the truth, straight up.

[00:05] Speaker 2: I'm Julie Hayden and I'm working at

[00:06] Speaker 1: An Emmy-winning former investigative reporter, a highly successful trial attorney, and publisher of a major Denver area newspaper. They've been partners as talk show hosts and in marriage, as parents, for over 10 years, providing thought-provoking information, opinion, and entertainment, live, local, and interactive. Everyone's voice is always welcome on the Chuck and Julie Show. Hello, everybody. Chuck Bonior, Julie Hayden.

[00:37] Speaker 1: This is the Chuck and Julie Grassroots Show, true straight up

[00:42] Speaker 2: And wel- um, we're excited to have on, with us today, former Congressman Bob Livingston. Um, he's got a new book out and it talks about, um, law fair, which is really in the news these days. The new book is called The Rainbow Chaser: The Man Who Gambled for Success and Broke Even. Bob, thank you for your time, and welcome to the Chuck and Julie Show.

[01:01] Speaker 3: Well, thank you both, and it's great to be with you. And by the way, I am a native of Colorado Springs, so, uh-

[01:08] Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

[01:09] Speaker 2: Ah.

[01:09] Speaker 3: Great, great to get back to Colorado.

[01:11] Speaker 2: (laughs) I didn't know what to do.

[01:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, fantastic.

[01:13] Speaker 2: Just telling our producer, Thomas, we had two inches of snow here on Friday, and it's 80 degrees today. So, I'm sure (laughs) you remember those days.

[01:21] Speaker 1: Love it.

[01:21] Speaker 2: A little bit of whiplash.

[01:22] Speaker 1: But I think he's got a new book out, Julie, Rainbow Chaser was his first. This is his second book, isn't it, Bob?

[01:28] Speaker 3: It is. Uh, the first one was more of a memoir. The second one is more of a revenge. (laughs)

[01:34] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[01:35] Speaker 2: We'll ta- I mean, and so y- you talk about, you know, law firm-

[01:38] Speaker 1: What's the name of your, of your newest book?

[01:41] Speaker 3: The, the newest book is The Rainbow Chaser. First one was The Windmill-

[01:45] Speaker 1: Oh, there it is. There it is.

[01:46] Speaker 3: ... Chaser.

[01:46] Speaker 1: Okay.

[01:46] Speaker 3: Uh, The Rainbow Chaser is, is largely, uh, a little bit of background, because I had to put that in, uh, but mostly, uh, uh, what's happened to me since I was a prosecutor, I was in Congress, and I, uh, started a lobbying business and been do- doing that for the last 28 years. Uh, and, and basically it's, uh, what happened that was totally unexpected, uh, as I neared the end of my, uh, career and re- was ready for retirement, and all of a sudden one day as I'm with my wife of 60 years and, uh, enjoying life with my kids and grandkids down in New Orleans, Louisiana, uh, the FBI knocked on my door, and surprise, surprise, it went from there.

[02:33] Speaker 2: Well-

[02:33] Speaker 1: But you, you used to be part of the FBI, didn't you?

[02:37] Speaker 3: I'm sorry?

[02:38] Speaker 1: Didn't... Were you ever a, a part of the FBI?

[02:42] Speaker 3: No. I was a, a, a Assistant US Attorney.

[02:46] Speaker 1: Okay.

[02:46] Speaker 3: Assistant to the DA in New Orleans.

[02:48] Speaker 1: Right.

[02:48] Speaker 3: And an Assistant, uh, Louisiana Attorney General, but I was never... I worked with the FBI. I was very close to 'em.

[02:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

[02:55] Speaker 3: And, uh, I tried, I tried over 100 cases, jury trials. So I, I was a, um, experienced prosecutor, and I never dreamed that prosecutors could use, uh, their jobs and their authority to go after innocent people because of who they were or what their political beliefs were be, would be.

[03:15] Speaker 2: Well, so tell us about that.

[03:16] Speaker 3: And, uh, of course...

[03:16] Speaker 2: I mean, what happ- what happened?

[03:21] Speaker 3: They knocked on my door. They interviewed me for about two hours. I was happy to speak with 'em because I've spoken with FBI agents, uh, in the past. And, uh, everything was great until they handed me a search warrant.

[03:32] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[03:32] Speaker 3: They said they wanted all of my records about a case that had, I had handled fi- five years earlier. Uh, this was during the Bu- the President Biden, um, Garland Attorney General, uh, uh, term, and they were going after people of all sorts for backgrounds and whatnot, as long as they were conservatives or republicans, uh, pro-lifers, uh, religious, uh, protestors, uh, or other people of that sort. I apparently had run afoul of 'em when I complained about their attorney, uh, their, uh, ambassador in Ukraine years ago.

[04:10] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[04:10] Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, they knocked on my door.

[04:13] Speaker 2: Very sensitive about Ukraine, those Bidens were. (laughs) You know?

[04:16] Speaker 1: Well, what were, what were they-

[04:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, what were they-

[04:18] Speaker 1: ... charging you with, or potentially charging you with?

[04:21] Speaker 2: And, and what happened?

[04:22] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[04:22] Speaker 3: Well, I, I had represented foreign, uh, people, entities, individuals, and countries, uh, over the, over the 28 years that I've been in business. Of th- you have to comply with the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

[04:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.

[04:37] Speaker 3: Or otherwise known as FARA.

[04:39] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[04:39] Speaker 3: And i- i- that means you gotta report everything and all the contacts and all that stuff you... And I, we did it religiously. Uh, I represented Ju- Julia Tymoshenko, who was running for president against the current President Zelensky, uh, in Ukraine. And w- my role was for about 10 months to bring her around DC and introduce her to dignitaries of all sorts, and report everything, which I did do. We did, uh, religiously. Uh, unfortunately, we di- we didn't know that another firm had represented her for four years, not 10 months, and they didn't report anything.

[05:16] Speaker 2: No.

[05:16] Speaker 3: Oh, but they were a Democrat firm, and they weren't-

[05:18] Speaker 2: Ah.

[05:18] Speaker 3: ... investigated, but I was.

[05:20] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, how did it all end up then?

[05:24] Speaker 3: Well, as soon as I got that, uh, warrant, and I called the US Attorney's Office and, uh, asked them, "Am I a target?" Because my wife and I just could not believe it. They said-

[05:33] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[05:33] Speaker 3: ... "Of course, and we told you," which they didn't do, uh, "And you're gonna be under investigation, and if we can, we're gonna indict you. We're gonna charge you." "We're gonna, uh, uh, uh, take you to court, and convict you, and put you in prison." And, uh, uh, that's the way it is. Uh, I immediately had to hire a lawyer, at great expense, 'cause I hadn't, I hadn't practiced law for a very long time. Uh, I, uh..Uh, we, we had 20 months of, of investigation, uh, but, uh, my lawyers did a great job. Filed an 88-page brief. We proved unequivocally that, uh, I was innocent, but it was, it was a, a, a turn on the old adage that says, "You're innocent until you're proven guilty." I was... I had to prove my innocence.

[06:24] Speaker 4: Right.

[06:24] Speaker 3: I, I couldn't w- rely on that adage. And to prove my innocence cost me a fortune.

[06:30] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[06:30] Speaker 3: And it made me so mad that, that when I started looking around, I found a lot of people that it happened to th- in far worse situations. And so, I put it all in my book. I had a- I put about 15 people or so, uh, uh, examples of, uh, the stuff like this had happened to, uh, who, uh, people who, unfortunately, even though they had to spend a lot of money, they were bankrupted, they were... they lost their business, uh, and in some instances, even put, uh, sentenced to prison.

[07:00] Speaker 3: But, you know-

[07:01] Speaker 4: (coughs)

[07:01] Speaker 3: ... what, uh, bottom line is, folks, I came up with the, uh, uh, conviction that, that lawfare, the business of a prosecutor seeking out a person simply because he's politically or personally, uh, uh, uh, um, opposed to him, can be a terribly dangerous, uh, fa- uh, thing for America, and that a free society can't stand. Because if we have that kind of practice, it means, uh, that, uh, uh, we become tyranny. Nothing short of tyranny.

[07:34] Speaker 3: Uh, but I, I don't know if this-

[07:37] Speaker 4: But they, they, they, they-

[07:37] Speaker 3: ... ... (crosstalk) probably what-

[07:37] Speaker 4: ... try to use the interview-

[07:39] Speaker 3: ... probably what-

[07:39] Speaker 4: ... and claim, claim that you lied to them?

[07:41] Speaker 3: ... I'm talking-

[07:42] Speaker 4: Did they try to use whatever it is-

[07:43] Speaker 3: No. Well, they, they didn't... They did not say I lied to them because they, uh, they knew that I didn't tell... I, uh, I told them everything exactly the truth, but they were still coming at me.

[07:54] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[07:54] Speaker 3: Uh, they felt that I had, uh, r- uh, committed money laundering, which was ridiculous, and th- and that, uh, I hadn't reported everything, which was also ridiculous. And, uh, they, they were just gonna investi... They didn't have a crime. They were coming at me because of who I was and what I had done to turn in the ambassador from Ukraine, uh, to... Excuse me, from the United States to Ukraine at the time that, uh, President Trump was first president. And, uh, at that time, this woman was, was undermining or, or contradicting everything the Trump administration was trying to do in Ukraine. Oh, and by the way, she was also covering up for Hunter Biden, who, at the time, was hired by, uh, uh, Burisma, the energy company, even though he didn't know anything about energy. And, uh, uh, she was working in... controversial to the, to the interest of the United States. So, I came home, uh, when I got here, and I wasn't hired by anybody to do this.

[08:59] Speaker 3: I just picked up the phone, called the State Department and reported her. Uh, I think that's what kicked this whole thing off, to tell you the truth. You know?

[09:06] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[09:06] Speaker 3: It had nothing to do with the crime. In fact, I didn't have... I hadn't committed a crime. I, I was-

[09:11] Speaker 4: I wa- I didn't either.

[09:11] Speaker 3: ... in public service... I'm 83 years old and I... and, and I've been... I've been in the Navy, I was a prosecutor, uh, uh, uh, uh, done, uh, in... 22 years in Congress, and the last thing in the world I wanted to do is break the law. I'd complied with the law, but they were coming to get me.

[09:29] Speaker 4: Right.

[09:29] Speaker 3: And they came, and they go after everybody that they don't... or that they're not, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, that is not in their corner, politically or personally.

[09:41] Speaker 4: Well, you're, you're, um... I certainly remember you, uh, as a congressman, and you were on the doorstep of being the Speaker of the House, as I remember, um-

[09:51] Speaker 3: Yes.

[09:52] Speaker 4: ... and you were leading the, um, charge against, uh... or one of the people leading the charge against, uh-

[09:58] Speaker 3: Clinton.

[09:58] Speaker 4: ... President Clinton.

[09:59] Speaker 3: That was during the Clinton impeachment.

[10:01] Speaker 4: Yeah. And then, and then Larry-

[10:03] Speaker 3: And that might've had something to do with it too. (laughs)

[10:05] Speaker 4: Yeah. And then Larry Flint. You got Flintized, or whatever it's called. Larry Flint.

[10:10] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[10:11] Speaker 4: Um...

[10:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Uh, uh, uh, Larry Flint offered, uh, uh, a million dollars to anybody, uh, if they could come up with, uh, uh, allegations against, uh, uh, anybody, any senior Republicans. And guess who they tagged? And so, it was time for me to leave Congress. Uh, but I, I had a very successful lobbying business for the next 28 years. And then, uh, then all of a sudden... I, I was let-... literally almost ready for retirement, and I get this knock on the door for something, uh, of the case that I had handled five years earlier. I mean, it cost me another fortune. And that's, uh, that's what the book is about. The, uh, the f- people that get in this situation can be bankrupted immediately because of the lawf- uh, uh, the l- legal fees.

[11:04] Speaker 4: Right.

[11:04] Speaker 3: And, uh, beyond that, they can actually be forced to... because they don't have the money, they have to plead guilty, and then this is just felonies.

[11:12] Speaker 4: Well-

[11:12] Speaker 3: The January Sixers. Yeah, that's what this is about.

[11:14] Speaker 4: Right. I was gonna say, we saw that with the J- with the January 6th people. I mean, and you're s- you're so right. We've seen this happen to people we know, where they charge them with ridiculous, ridiculous crimes, they investigate them, and so at the end of it- Well, we know. We- we're, we're, we're, we're kind of friends with John Eastman, um, and that's what they did to him

[11:30] Speaker 3: Oh, that's a tragic case. He's been disbarred.

[11:33] Speaker 4: It is. Yes And

[11:34] Speaker 3: So, i- i- it can hand- ha- be done criminally and it can be done civilly. And it is, is-

[11:39] Speaker 4: Well, they did both. They did both and it turned out-

[11:40] Speaker 3: ... they disbar him for giving advice, advice to the President of the United States.

[11:44] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[11:45] Speaker 3: Just incredible.

[11:46] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[11:46] Speaker 3: Well, and I think one of the things they do with... we've seen with people too, is I don't even think so much they totally care if they even win the case. They want to do two things. Number one, they want to crush you for b- by, you know, daring to disagree, and they want to use you as, as an example to anyone else. I think... And they particularly go after lawyers and say, "Hey, you want to defend Trump? You want to defend Trump's policies?

[12:05] Speaker 3: Here's what we're going to do to you." Yeah

[12:07] Speaker 4: And, I mean, as we're seeing all of these revelations coming out now about Spygate and Russiagate and the lengths that they go to, I mean, you're, you're right. This lawfare is... And it undermines, I think, so much of what we... and, and the country. If you can't trust the judicial system, there, there really are not many other options, right?

[12:25] Speaker 3: Right.Justice is supposed to be blind, but it's not blind when they start r- removing the blindfold and looking for people that they want to charge. Leventy Berea, under Joseph Stalin, was a, was Stalin's hit man, actually, his executioner, and he said, "Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime." In other words, he, he said he could build a case against anybody as long as he had a target. And unfortunately, the Biden Merrick Garland Justice Department took that, uh, attitude in spades, and they just went after everybody. And of course, the chief, uh, uh, target, uh, before Biden and during, uh, uh, after Obama, uh, was, uh, was President Trump himself.

[13:08] Speaker 2: Right.

[13:08] Speaker 3: And he... Th- they, they threw more stuff at him than they've thrown at anybody, but he had the strength and fortitude and money to defend himself, and he beat them, and then of course, he won re-election. Uh, but-

[13:20] Speaker 2: Right. ... *********

[13:20] Speaker 5: Well, they ran out of time. They ran out of time. One of them, they would have gotten him if they hadn't run out of time, uh, but they'd-

[13:27] Speaker 3: Yep.

[13:27] Speaker 5: ... started a little late, and, and, uh, so were you gonna be tried in, in DC? Was that where the court hearing was gonna be?

[13:34] Speaker 3: No. I, I, I beat them. I, I, I backed them off. They never charged me. Uh.

[13:39] Speaker 5: Oh.

[13:39] Speaker 3: I showed them unequivocally that they had no case. And, uh, so with about 14 months into it, uh, we filed our 88-page brief. We said, "You, you don't have anything to charge me." Fortunately, it didn't hit the papers, so I didn't lose my business. But, uh, they, they didn't charge me, and, and they looked at it. They looked at the brief, and then they shrugged their shoulders and said, "Well, never mind," and they-

[14:03] Speaker 2: Yeah. (laughs)

[14:03] Speaker 3: ... uh, just walked away.

[14:05] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[14:05] Speaker 3: And that's what's happened to too many of these people. You know, Jack Smith is the-

[14:10] Speaker 5: Yes.

[14:10] Speaker 3: ... chief, uh, antagonist, uh, chief, uh, uh, prosecutor, special prosecutor for, uh, Garland, Merrick Garland, and, and he went after President Trump, and he also went af- after, uh, uh, governor of the v- v- one of the best governors of Virginia of modern times, Bob McDonnell.

[14:30] Speaker 5: Right.

[14:30] Speaker 3: And he... Two years after his successful... Excuse me, two weeks after his successful term, uh, in, uh, Virginia as governor, they, uh, this guy, Jack Smith, filed an indictment against him. He tri- he charged him, he tried him, uh, he convicted him, sentenced him to prison 'cause he, he was put off that for appeal, and McDonnell followed it all the way to the Supreme Court. It cost him a fortune. He'll never be able to pay off all the money that he owes for attorneys' fees.

[15:01] Speaker 3: But the Supreme Court unanimously overturned Bob McDonnell's conviction saying that there was never a crime for which he should be, whi- uh, which he was charged in the first place-

[15:10] Speaker 2: Wow.

[15:10] Speaker 3: ... and he had managed to admonish Jack Smith. Uh-

[15:13] Speaker 2: Right.

[15:13] Speaker 3: ... I mean, this is the kind of stuff that is un-American. It's contrary to our, our entire fabric of our, our being as, as a free society and as a constitutional democracy. But these people have used this prac- uh, practice, and they're threatening to do it again if, uh-

[15:30] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[15:30] Speaker 3: ... if they, they ever come back to power.

[15:32] Speaker 2: What about, what about, um, judges? Sometimes too, you look at... Because you have, okay, so you've got the corrupt prosecutors and the investigators, and then you look at, for instance, like Judge, uh, Boasberg and some of the judges and the ruling. We've had some in Colorado regarding Tina Peters, a Mesa County clerk who's serving nine years in prison. Um, what do you, what do you make of the judges? What's going...

[15:53] Speaker 2: I mean, I think too many of them anymore are just activists, and they're using the law, and they're-

[15:57] Speaker 5: Well, many of them are former prosecutors themselves.

[16:00] Speaker 2: Right.

[16:00] Speaker 5: So, they certainly are not gonna do anything to, to a prosecutor they feel is bringing false or phony charges. Uh, but they're also, you know, they're highly politicized, at least in, in, under the Biden, um, judges are, are ******* them a lot.

[16:16] Speaker 3: Well, it goes to show you that our review process in the Congress is, is just lacking, because they're letting, uh, some very, uh, inept persecutors, uh, people, politically motivated people who shouldn't be on the bench, they're letting them on the bench. And this, the, the country's become so politically divided that, that they think, well, uh, some of these judges think that they are judge, jury, and executioner. They, they ignore the Constitution, and they levy the boom on, uh, innocent, politically, uh, uh, targeted individuals. I mean, what happened to the January 6th people after, uh, after that ridiculous, uh, riot. It was a riot, it wasn't an insurrection.

[17:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[17:02] Speaker 3: But some of those people, just for walking around, got charged and, and convicted and imprisoned, and many, many for many years.

[17:11] Speaker 2: Right.

[17:11] Speaker 3: And, and some held in solitary. But that was the judicial, whole judicial system of Washington, DC, that was kind of rubber stamping, uh-

[17:20] Speaker 2: Right.

[17:20] Speaker 3: ... what Nancy Pelosi and these people are trying to do. And it was, it was a tragic miscarriage of justice.

[17:26] Speaker 2: Do you think that people... And, and I think people are becoming more aware, and certainly the kind of folks who listen to our podcast are aware. But do you think that people, in general, are aware enough of just how much this is going on and how dangerous it is?

[17:40] Speaker 3: By and large, I'd say, if, if you'd have told me, asked me that six months ago, I'd say no. But I think-

[17:45] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[17:45] Speaker 3: ... they're becoming more aware, and that's why I wrote the book. I've got about 10 to 12, 15 ex- examples of people who really got the short end of the stick, uh, beginning with President Trump and some of these, uh, other people. But I hope that people will read the book, because o- once you become convinced that the system is being misused for political purposes, uh, the American people can stand up and say, "Enough." Uh, Abraham Lincoln said, uh, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time." Well, that's- (laughs)

[18:19] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[18:19] Speaker 3: ... saying's being tested these days.

[18:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[18:20] Speaker 3: And I'm hoping, uh, that he will be proven right. But it's only because y- if people become aware of what's going on is it's being misused for political purposes.

[18:31] Speaker 2: You worry that they're going to go after you for writing the book. I mean, there's a certain risk there that you're taking.

[18:36] Speaker 5: Well, different administrations-

[18:37] Speaker 3: I'm 83 years old and I, I can tell, (laughs) I can tell what to do with their, uh, charges these days.

[18:45] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[18:45] Speaker 3: I, I, I'm on top of... They, they came at me and I won. I beat them. Uh, just like Trump did, but only they didn't come at me as hard as they did at him. Uh, but o- other friends of mine, good friends of mine, uh, weren't so lucky and they, their lives were destroyed for it, by it. Mine wasn't.

[19:03] Speaker 5: But do you really think the American people, the system can reform itself? I don't think it can, because there's too many who are part of the system that, that, that are in on it. I mean-

[19:14] Speaker 2: It's just too entrenched like.

[19:15] Speaker 5: It's too entrenched, you know, entire prosecutorial... You know, New York from, um, James to, to the DA for Manhattan to anywhere else. I mean, they're, they're, they say they're going to indict, uh, the ICE agents for murdering people and everything else, and it doesn't seem-

[19:33] Speaker 3: Well, it's changing, it's changing, uh, uh, by state by state and community by community. And there's no doubt we're losing in some of those communities. Uh, but we can only hope that we can retain the majority. I, I, I, I'm, I'm from... I was born in Colorado, which has gone kind of the wrong way in, in many respects.

[19:57] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[19:57] Speaker 3: But, uh, I, I live in Louisiana and we're, we're on top of things, and, uh, I, I feel very comfortable that we're not going to go that way. Uh, but yeah, you're right. As long as people can keep electing these wackos who don't care about the Constitution, it means that our freedoms and privileges are in jeopardy. We got to stop it. We got to do everything we can to stop it and that's why I wrote the book.

[20:21] Speaker 2: Well, where can people... 'Cause y- you've been a great guest and this... I'm, I'm just... The book must have fascinating stories in it. Where can people get, get the book?

[20:29] Speaker 3: Well, it's in... It's on Amazon and every bookstore. And if they go to... Want to go to a bookstore and they don't have it, uh, please tell the bookstore owner, uh, to start carrying it.

[20:40] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[20:40] Speaker 3: Uh, it's, uh, it's got wide coverage around the country and, uh, I think, uh, we're beginning to get a lot of traction. So thank you all for having me on the program. This is the kind of thing that I need-

[20:51] Speaker 5: You've been a great guest.

[20:51] Speaker 3: ...to spread the word.

[20:53] Speaker 5: Great. Great book.

[20:53] Speaker 2: All right. So thank you so much. We appreciate your time and good luck with the book. Thank you.

[20:57] Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Bye-bye.

[20:59] Speaker 2: Thank you. Former Congressman Barb- uh, Bob Livingston. Um, his new book out, The Rainbow Chaser: The Man Who Gambled for Success and Broke Even. Well, you know, and, and that kind of segues into something else I wanted to talk about, and that is just all the, the, um... With, um, Joe diGenova being appointed special counsel to, um, the Attorney General's office, which it's... I think that, you know... I mean, he seems to be moving things in... I mean, my impression is that the, that the President was not finally satisfied with how fast they were moving on some of these Spygate, Russiagate, Cross- you know, Crossfire Hurricane investigations.

[21:35] Speaker 5: Well, they don't, they don't seem to realize, and certainly, um, Pam Bondi didn't seem to realize that when you put a career prosecutor on a case that's political, uh, the mere fact they've been a, you know, a, a career... Quote-unquote career prosecutor, it means they've been under Democratic administrations-

[21:55] Speaker 2: Right.

[21:55] Speaker 5: ...uh, for God knows how long. And even when they were under Republicans, the Democrats controlled the Justice Department, at least, uh, below the top lines. Um, and, and so as a practical matter, um, they, they are going to slow walk it. They are going to spend all their time running memos on why Brennan and Comey cases are bad and it shouldn't be done, um, and will do everything to bring it to jurisdictions like DC rather than Florida. And they didn't seem to realize this, and that's why I think Pam Bondi got fired. Pam Bondi, I don't think it was Epstein that got her fired, although that didn't help her any, um, that, that kind of blow up.

[22:33] Speaker 2: Right.

[22:33] Speaker 5: Uh, but I, but I think they, they... Well, I mean, she just doesn't know what she's doing. She... Unable to figure out that these career prosecutors, while they say all the right things, um, in fact, have one... They have a political agenda and they will not, in fact, do what they're told.

[22:48] Speaker 2: Well, and that's what... You know, the things I were reading were saying at least diGenova understands the bigger picture, right?

[22:53] Speaker 5: Yes.

[22:53] Speaker 2: He understands how everything is connected. And this is from Jacob. "Three things are going to happen. Gallegos is going to be expelled, the first Trump impeachment will be expunged, and any member of Congress or Se- or Senate who is an attorney will be disbarred and jailed because they knew the charges were brought on non-evidence." I'm not going to hold my breath on that one, though. "Three, the votes that were collected in Arizona and Fulton County will show Trump won. Also, anyone in the Democrat Party who is center-left will not vote in November, they're tired of the far left. If Jocelyn Benson, Secretary of State Michigan is arrested, I'm betting Jenna Griswold will follow. The information that Patel and Gabbard found in the burn bags is just amazing. Dumb, dumb Comey thought it was all to be burned. Comey, of anybody, should realize that you don't burn papers, you know, without a backup." I agree with some of that, Jacob. I mean, I think it's optimistic.

[23:40] Speaker 5: Yes, very optimistic.

[23:40] Speaker 2: I think... At the very... But, but at the very least, though, we are seeing progress, right? I mean, CBS is reporting that, um, that, uh, cooperating intelligence officers and FBI people who were, um, you know, working in that whole time there, um, have been subpoenaed now to testify before a grand jury on, um, John Brennan and did he lie to Congress about the whole Steele dossier and the intelligence community assessment and all of that.

[24:05] Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting-

[24:05] Speaker 2: Which is what he did, but...

[24:07] Speaker 5: Well, but you don't want to depend upon, upon did he lie to Congress, because that's so difficult and... They need to do the RICO case, which is basically, did they conspire, um, to get Trump e- either impeached or oth- otherwise do a Nixon and resign? And they clearly did that, and they... I, I think, you know, they keep on going, "Well, Brennan lied," but that's always, you know, a difficult case to bring. And hopefully some of them are kind of going, "No, that is not..." The big conspiracy trial is the one you need, not the-...

[24:40] Speaker 5: not the early ones, did somebody lie or, you know, when they tried to bring that one with Comey-

[24:45] Speaker 2: Right.

[24:45] Speaker 5: ... uh, up, up, up in, uh, DC. I mean, it was a pathetic case.

[24:49] Speaker 2: Right.

[24:50] Speaker 5: Because, you know, you can interpret it lots of different ways.

[24:52] Speaker 2: And well, and as you said, you need to get rid of, uh, get out of DC, right?

[24:56] Speaker 5: Oh, you gotta get out of DC.

[24:57] Speaker 2: I mean, because they, they've already showed, I mean, no matter what the evidence is, if, um, they, they won't, they won't indict. So again, if it involves a Republican, um, y- you know, they're, they're just gonna protect it. An interesting thing in the Conservative Treehouse that I hadn't thought of was, um, he was pointing out that, you know, that perhaps there's a money or there was at least supposed to be a money angle to all of this, not just political. He was talking about when Obama sent all the money to Iran, the pallettes of gold and dollars and things like that, that the plan was for some of that to be laundered back.

[25:29] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[25:29] Speaker 5: Well, oh, that's true of all these NGOs and the-

[25:32] Speaker 2: Right.

[25:33] Speaker 5: ... and the State Department and the AIDS project and, and HIV/AIDS.

[25:36] Speaker 2: And that's one of the reasons they wanted to get rid of Trump so hard and so fast and that's why they're currently still trying to get rid of Trump so hard and so fast 'cause he put the sanctions against Iran, now they're seizing the assets, right? And so all of this money that was supposed to be going corruptly-

[25:51] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[25:51] Speaker 2: ... to all these, you know, that maybe that was supposed to build the Obama library, right? And that's why they're having trouble-

[25:56] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[25:56] Speaker 2: ... because it was supposed to be from stolen-

[25:59] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[25:59] Speaker 2: ... or the money laundered Iranian funds. But it's just interesting and I think he points out, which I think is true, that, and as you said, one of the problems you have is all of these people, so many of them have been entrenched in the system for so long and they're not, they don't look at the, you know, prosecutor sitting next to them as the enemy. That's their friend who they go to lunch with, right?

[26:20] Speaker 5: Right. Right.

[26:20] Speaker 2: Um, and not only that, but there, there's a certain amount of, I don't know, institutional tribalism, I guess I would say. And I, I think it's so hard to break through that, number one. Then you have different people know different things. He, in the Conservative Treehouse, they call it silos, where certain agencies have this information, people have this information, and there isn't anyone who's can see the whole picture, and it's actually constructed that way. It's constructed to make it impossible for anyone to see the whole picture. And what Tulsi Gabbard has done, by bringing everything under her wing, right?

[26:51] Speaker 2: Is, is basically allowed all of this to start coming out which-

[26:54] Speaker 5: Which is why they attack Tulsi Gabbard endlessly.

[26:57] Speaker 2: Right.

[26:57] Speaker 5: Endlessly. I mean, the CIA said, "Oh, you tried to expose one of our hidden agents." Well, they ju- you know, secret agents. They said there, she was a out front agent, and then all of a sudden, they just hit her for 30 seconds before the won. I mean, it's, there's no question that I, I don't think, um, Kash Patel, I, I don't think Dan Bongino, I don't think, um, any of those people has the intelligence to really work their way through these ones.

[27:24] Speaker 5: And they may, they, they just don't really understand how corrupt the process is and they can't just kind of go, "Okay, well, we'll leave everybody in." I mean, you, you, you've got to take everybody's in there, either marginalize them, have them work in other things, and then bring in a whole new coterie of people because it's just-

[27:43] Speaker 2: Well, and time is not, uh, uh, when you think about it, time is on the, the law fair people's side, right? I mean, D- Trump has, you know, really two more years, right? And the last year is going to be a lame duck and everybody else is going to be busy trying to get elected. And so I think for a lot of them, if we could just, like, they throw a tax out at Kash Patel constantly, you know. He's, what are they saying? He's drunk, you chain...

[28:05] Speaker 2: I mean-

[28:05] Speaker 5: Well, that, that's another side of it, yeah.

[28:07] Speaker 2: Right. They do all of this.

[28:08] Speaker 5: Girlfriends, definitely.

[28:08] Speaker 2: Um, and, and I think, um, what they want to do is they just want to keep him tied up but all they need to do is hold out for a couple years, right? And then-

[28:16] Speaker 5: And, and the real thing they did wrong, and, and even Biden knew it, was they got Trump too late. I mean, he didn't beat all the charges. He, in fact, ran out the clock.

[28:24] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[28:25] Speaker 5: And all of a sudden, the, the charges in, in Atlanta and in, in Arizona and so forth, they just, they just ex- he, he had gotten presidential immunity by that time. Um, but, you know, we- we've waited way too, it's, uh, it, we'll be closing on two years of wasted time with Maria Long-

[28:42] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[28:43] Speaker 5: ... the prosecutor, which from the beginning, she was going to slow walk it, she was going to figure out everything she could do, um, so you'd be no time left.

[28:52] Speaker 2: Right.

[28:52] Speaker 5: Um, and it's, it's, they've proven time and time again.

[28:55] Speaker 2: It's much easier to do nothing, right? Than it is to work hard.

[28:59] Speaker 5: They work hard and then they all walk out their reports and people are gonna go, "Well, why haven't we brought anything against Comey?"

[29:04] Speaker 2: Why haven't they said, "Yeah, why haven't we released it?" I, you know, well, my guess will be that they will indict him. I don't know that he'll ever go to trial, but I think what's happening that's good though is that the information is coming out, um, and I think Tulsi Gabbard is doing a good job and it's getting out there, um, and, you know, the Atkinson transcripts, uh, uh, you know, where the Inspector General was clearly corrupt too and lying all of that-

[29:26] Speaker 5: And, and he was appointed by Trump. And as you, you're talking about-

[29:29] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[29:30] Speaker 5: ... Conservative Treehouse said, "Who recommended-"

[29:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[29:33] Speaker 5: "... Atkinson?" Whoever recommended Atkinson is also a traitor.

[29:37] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[29:37] Speaker 5: Uh, but, you know, figuring out who all the traitors are is hard. It's hard.

[29:40] Speaker 2: Right, if you're Trump, you could see, right? Not, not only that, but he's got wars, he's got a country to run, he's got all kinds of stuff going on. Trying to make your way through this, you would be like, "Who is that person?"

[29:49] Speaker 5: Right.

[29:49] Speaker 2: "I don't know who that person is."

[29:50] Speaker 5: Maria Long. I, I, I-

[29:52] Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, I mean, I just-

[29:53] Speaker 5: She's in charge of the entire Comey and everything. "Well, we'll see. Oh, yeah, she's really good and she's really working hard." And what's happened? Nothing. She's writing the memo on why Brennan and Comey, uh, shouldn't be charged.

[30:05] Speaker 2: Then you have Jason Crow winding around saying as soon as the Democrat gets-

[30:08] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[30:08] Speaker 2: ... back in power, they're going to do everything-

[30:10] Speaker 6: Can, can I say-

[30:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, go.

[30:11] Speaker 6: Can I say something?

[30:13] Speaker 2: Sure can.

[30:13] Speaker 6: There's an e- there's an email that they brought up, uh, uh, last week from John Morell stating that the, uh, 52 guys that were gonna sign, all that, he said in the email that the whole thing was, was a hoax.

[30:26] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[30:27] Speaker 6: He said in an email-

[30:28] Speaker 5: You're talking about the 52 intelligence operatives-

[30:31] Speaker 6: Uh-huh.

[30:32] Speaker 5: ... who said that it was-

[30:33] Speaker 6: He said in the email it was a hoax.

[30:35] Speaker 2: Wow.

[30:35] Speaker 6: I don't know how, how much more evidence do you need?

[30:38] Speaker 2: Right. Well, exactly. Exactly. Um, well-

[30:41] Speaker 6: Okay.

[30:41] Speaker 2: ... and then he goes, "Well, I was just joking. I meant to say it was a joke or so..." Uh, you know, but you're right.

[30:46] Speaker 6: Yeah.

[30:46] Speaker 2: I think-... at the very least, step one is get the information out, right?

[30:50] Speaker 7: Right.

[30:50] Speaker 2: And they're not burying it behind, "Well, we can't reveal it now because it's an ongoing investigation." Fortunately, they've knocked that off, right? Um, they're not, they're not doing that anymore, so I don't know. Are you hopeful, Jacob, that we'll s-

[31:02] Speaker 7: I'm, I'm thinking, I'm thinking... Well, this is what I'm thinking. I'm thinking they're not going to go the indictment route. They're going to go out and out and just arrest these people and bring them into court and face the judge. Because if they go the indictment route, in Washington, they don't have a chance. Just arrest them, go in front of the judge, and if the judge throws the case out, then you know, then you know there's a fix. That's what I'm hopeful. That's what I'm saying.

[31:25] Speaker 2: Rather than-

[31:25] Speaker 7: You, you don't want to do the grand jury route. Okay.

[31:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[31:28] Speaker 7: No, you don't. Down in Miami No, you don't want to go... I just wanted to say one other thing

[31:34] Speaker 2: Sure.

[31:34] Speaker 7: ... uh, real quick because I'm driving. Um, I hope Shawn Boyd's listening because last week, or two weeks ago, she was complaining that all these people are leaving Denver and so on and so forth and all these houses are up for sale. When, when the pot became legal and the, and the pot people couldn't put the, uh, money in the bank, what'd they do? They went out and they, uh, bought property because that's the only place they could put their money. Now that the pot businesses aren't doing very well, they're all putting up their properties for sale and that's why you're getting all these thousands and thousands of homes and properties up for, up for sale.

[32:06] Speaker 2: Wow.

[32:06] Speaker 7: Yeah.

[32:06] Speaker 8: Also, there's a glut of these pot stores.

[32:09] Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah.

[32:10] Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.

[32:11] Speaker 7: All right, I'm gonna go. All right, bye.

[32:12] Speaker 2: All right, thank you, Jacob. Thank you. I had not... Oh, uh, I had not, um, heard that, but that could be. Um...

[32:19] Speaker 7: Well, they're just part of, you know-

[32:20] Speaker 2: Right.

[32:20] Speaker 7: ... Palantier leaving, all these other ones.

[32:21] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they're, yeah, they're st-

[32:23] Speaker 7: Did Donna want to say something? Is that you, Don?

[32:25] Speaker 2: Were you, were you chiming in or were you... Maybe not. Um, well, uh, uh, you know, uh, uh, the economy in Denver, you just look around and it's like, you know.

[32:33] Speaker 7: Well, I, I'm sure the economy, I mean, it's just gonna, it's, it's, it's amazing how, how m- many businesses are being either driven out, um, by the overregulation or, like Palantier because they're harassing them. I mean, it's just... And eventually it'll, people kind of, well, things will kind of not, you know, be a slow growth. No, it's not going to be a slow growth.

[32:54] Speaker 2: But you see, this is, this is some recommendation, some task force now is recommending, you know, what do they do with the pavilions in downtown Denver? I remember when that opened-

[33:01] Speaker 7: Oh, yeah, that was the biggest thing down.

[33:03] Speaker 2: ... and it was like pretty full and it was really good. Right?

[33:04] Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah.

[33:04] Speaker 2: And now you go there, it's empty. All the stores have left.

[33:06] Speaker 7: Yeah.

[33:06] Speaker 2: They're like, "Well, it's, it's obsolete," and so what we really need to do-

[33:10] Speaker 7: Shelter.

[33:10] Speaker 2: ... is, is, is, um, is like put in affordable housing.

[33:14] Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:16] Speaker 2: Put some, put some affordable housing in there and a park and then some stores.

[33:19] Speaker 7: Okay, there you go. There you go.

[33:21] Speaker 2: You have completely empty downtown skyscrapers.

[33:25] Speaker 7: Right, right.

[33:25] Speaker 2: It's like no one wants to live downtown. People are fleeing downtown. People won't go in the 16th Street Mall because it's so dangerous. So you're going to put a park down? I guess maybe that's where the, you know, the fentanyl users and the heroin users and all the, you know, the, the fake homeless people could go hang out in a new park, you know?

[33:43] Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah.

[33:43] Speaker 2: It's like, it's, it's just ridiculous. And some of it isn't even their fault. Some of it, I think it's just, you know, retail is, is, uh, suffering too. We were listening to, our son listens to Tim Dillon, the comedian, and he had... I don't always agree with everything he says, but-

[33:57] Speaker 7: Oh, nobody does.

[33:57] Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody. But he was talking about, he was wandering around a mall the other day-

[34:02] Speaker 7: Really?

[34:02] Speaker 2: ... in, in Los Angeles and he's like, "Man, if you want to see what's happened-"

[34:06] Speaker 7: The decline and fall of the American empire.

[34:08] Speaker 2: Right. He said, "Just go wander around a mall." And that is so true. I was at the Cherry Creek Mall not that long ago and I bet... I was trying to figure out when was the last time I'd been there.

[34:16] Speaker 7: Yeah.

[34:16] Speaker 2: Ever since they started charging for parking.

[34:18] Speaker 7: That was the biggest mistake.

[34:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. It's like because what I'm gonna... You know, I love to shop, right?

[34:23] Speaker 7: Yeah.

[34:23] Speaker 2: So, I'm happy to go in and wander around, but it's like, if I'm not going to buy anything, I don't have to pay for looking around. But it was-

[34:30] Speaker 7: And, and you inevitably do buy something. "Oh, I need this," or ... The objects are aligned.

[34:34] Speaker 2: The only store that looked like it was doing any business at all was this giant Apple store, which they had put where the old, um, Eddie, um, Bauer used to be.

[34:42] Speaker 7: Oh, yeah.

[34:43] Speaker 2: Kind of there by Nordstrom's. But it's like, uh, it... That isn't quite right, but I was just surprised at how, how different it was. I mean, all the stores that were gone. Um, and, you know, I don't know what happens, and that's what he said too. He said malls are not coming back. So redesigning the pavilions and with affordable housing, I don't think it's going to solve downtown's problems.

[35:04] Speaker 7: Well, it'll, you know, it'll take up space, but ...

[35:07] Speaker 2: It's in downtown-

[35:08] Speaker 7: Yeah.

[35:08] Speaker 2: ... right? If you're an investor, would you be like, "Oh, yeah, that seems like a good idea"? It's like, no, I mean, there's no one down there anymore. So, um, you know, we'll have to see. Um, do you want to talk... The Republican Party, just kind of the update. Ding-dong.

[35:21] Speaker 7: Ding-dong.

[35:21] Speaker 2: Britt is dead or gone. She's not dead. She's gone. The chair of the Republican Party resigned officially, Eric Gross-

[35:28] Speaker 7: On the 17th at 11:59 it was effective, at least.

[35:32] Speaker 2: Right. And Eric Grossman is the vice chair, and he is, um-

[35:36] Speaker 7: The titular temporary chair.

[35:37] Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think... And how do I... One of the things I liked, and there'll be a lot more to talk about after this, but just kind of wanted to bring you up to speed. So that did indeed happen. I think people are like, "Is she really going to resign?" She did indeed resign. Um, and then wrote us a letter saying how we all have to work hard, and she agrees that it was all her fault that the, um, assembly was such a disaster.

[35:57] Speaker 7: Oh, here's a great tip.

[35:59] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[35:59] Speaker 7: "I personally did all the bad things." Well, it's true.

[36:02] Speaker 2: That's true. You did. (laughs)

[36:03] Speaker 7: For an entire year, you did everything you ... You said itself.

[36:05] Speaker 2: But I think Eric has, as he said on our show, the right approach where he said, "What I really want to do..." He said, "I, I don't want to get into policy debates. I don't want to do this or that." He said, "I just want to clean things up and get it so we can hold, number one, like a legitimate, decent meeting." And it's like, he's like, "Just start small, clean things up, you know, stop the ship from sinking, and then we can start figuring out about where we want to go." And I think that's just a really good... Particularly as we're heading into the midterms and candidates are busy anyway, and the party has no money. So I think that's just a real good place.

[36:37] Speaker 7: I think he's going to do a great job.

[36:38] Speaker 2: I do too.

[36:39] Speaker 7: Hopefully he can hand off whoever's going to be the next sacrificial victim of, of being the chair, um, and hope it is another establishment one. You know, the establishment has no reason... Why you want to elect an establishment person-

[36:53] Speaker 5: ... is beyond me. But it used to be because they had a lot of money behind them. But since all the, the money guys just want jungle primaries, it's gone. So an establishment person has noth- and Brita had nothing to offer, absolutely nothing to offer.

[37:08] Speaker 2: Um, oh, is, is, Dr. Donna, is that the song Ding Dong the Wicked Witch is Dead?

[37:12] Speaker 5: Yeah, yep.

[37:12] Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I was referring to.

[37:14] Speaker 5: Yeah, we ought to put that on.

[37:15] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, wh- why... That's true. I would not... Why... If you a- agree with the caucus and assembly system, would you vote for an establishment chair candidate? Because the establishment wants to get... They made it clear. They don't... They're not even hiding it anymore, right? They're not even being tricky about it. Both in the media, you got Barb Kruckemeier passing, trying to pass laws. They want to get rid of the caucus and assem-

[37:37] Speaker 5: Dick Wadhams.

[37:37] Speaker 2: Dick Wadhams, right. They want to get rid of the caucus and assembly system and then implement a jungle primary. Um, now, you know, in California, it might be working to the Republicans' advantage, but it's not going to work.

[37:47] Speaker 5: Oh, they'll, they'll wreak bad.

[37:48] Speaker 2: Yes.

[37:49] Speaker 5: I mean that, that was the whole thing, uh, why, why they threw out Eric Swalwell. I mean, he was getting in the way. He had too many votes, so they, they asked him on a Friday, "Do you-"

[37:58] Speaker 2: How ruthless they are, you know?

[37:59] Speaker 5: Yeah. "On Friday, would you like to get out?" "No, no, I'm leaving" or "I'm pretty close." You know, they go, "You better get out." Go in Monday morning, and his whole life was destroyed.

[38:08] Speaker 2: It was hilarious.

[38:08] Speaker 5: I mean, his entire life was destroyed.

[38:10] Speaker 2: (laughs) It's like, they're like, "Do you want to rethink that?" So the next one, you're right. When they say to the next candidate-

[38:15] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[38:15] Speaker 2: ... "Do you want to resign?"

[38:15] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[38:16] Speaker 2: "You want, you want to step down?"

[38:17] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[38:17] Speaker 2: Like, tr- yeah. (laughs) How quickly can I do it? Well, a- and that won't happen in Colorado. The Democrats control everything, so we'll... All of our, all of our races will be between two Democrats. And why the establishment wants that. W- I mean, why, if you consider yourself sort of an establishment member of the Republican Party, why you would want that is, is beyond me.

[38:41] Speaker 5: Well, say, if I was a billionaire.

[38:42] Speaker 2: Well, no, the donors I get, why they do.

[38:44] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[38:44] Speaker 2: But your average person out there who sides with the RINOs and the establishment people, don't they get... You know, because we have, you know, in Adams County, our chair, right? Does she not understand that the people she's supporting want to destroy her whole organization?

[38:59] Speaker 5: She doesn't. She doesn't.

[38:59] Speaker 2: Doesn't she get that? It's like, to... Why, why, you know? We won't need any Adams County   ,​ Adams County Republican Party pens because there won't be any Adams County Republican Party.

[39:10] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[39:10] Speaker 2: It's like... I guess we could sell them on eBay then.

[39:13] Speaker 5: Yeah, sure.

[39:14] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[39:14] Speaker 5: Along with homeless, uh, the homeless shelter up in, uh, Billings.

[39:19] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[39:19] Speaker 5: You, you can have those pens for sale.

[39:20] Speaker 2: That's right.

[39:21] Speaker 5: I mean, it's just, it's just... It, it is amazing. It is amazing. Um, and everything's moving at an incredibly rapid rate. I mean, people think they have a lot of time. They don't. Uh, they don't. I think this may be the last, um, you know, Republican, generally, primary in both get rid of them. They're kind of, "See, how awful they are?" And already, the Democrat business interests all want to get rid of... Uh, because the Progressives are coming.

[39:46] Speaker 2: Right.

[39:46] Speaker 5: They can see that already, what they did to Diane Forget, and she lost at the assembly. Um, and so they're, they're, they're coming out. Um, the question is, can they get it out quick enough? Can the Dick Wadhams and the-

[39:58] Speaker 2: Well, their stated goal is by 2030.

[40:00] Speaker 5: Well, they're going to get it by 2028, my guess.

[40:03] Speaker 2: Um, well, I think it would probably need a constitutional amendment.

[40:08] Speaker 5: No, no. Well, who knows what it'll need, but they'll get around that too. Um, no, they're go- they're gonna... You know, the, the biggest shock that has happened in Republican politics and not... Well, in, in electoral politics in Colorado was the failure in Colorado, as well as other Western states, to go to jungle primaries and rank choice voting. Everybody thought that would pass. They spent, I don't know how much.

[40:31] Speaker 2: By Kent Beery. Yeah.

[40:31] Speaker 5: Kent Beery, they put up, I don't know, eight, nine million dollars against nothing.

[40:34] Speaker 2: Right.

[40:35] Speaker 5: Uh, and it still failed. So that, that was a shock, and that set them back. And therefore, I mean, I didn't even think it would have caucus and assembly now because that was, you know... Everybody thought, "Well, you know, that much spending," but it also lost in other Western states. So they're not giving up, they're just going, "Let's do a different, a different way," and called something out.

[40:54] Speaker 2: Courageous Colorado.

[40:55] Speaker 5: Courageous Colorado. That's right, Courageous Colorado. Let's make what they call Big Democracy now, I think, is what they're calling it.

[41:01] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[41:01] Speaker 5: Big Democracy, yeah. No democracy is Big Democracy. Um, and so it's, it's, it's an amazing, amazing to watch, um, all, all the chess pieces because they're... You know, noth- nothing is, is sacred anymore. You go, "Well, no, they won't do that." "Oh yeah, they'll do that." They won't take a ex-congressman and indict him for bullshit Farah. "Oh yeah, oh yeah, they will."

[41:23] Speaker 2: (laughs) No, they won't. They won't make... They won't raid Mar-a-Lago, yeah. (laughs)

[41:26] Speaker 5: No, they won't do that. Yeah.

[41:28] Speaker 2: No, you're right. There are, there are no limits now. Well, and you know, I, I... Here's a question I had. Judicial Watch has been doing a great job sort of challenging voter rolls, and they were talking about how they were getting ex- thousands and thousands of voters thrown off of voter rolls here. But my ques- I'm, I'm betting that it didn't actually happen, right? I mean, Jena Gris- I mean, I, I haven't seen anybody say, you know, there's suddenly 230,000 fewer voters in Colorado or whatever the number was, right?

[41:55] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[41:55] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Jena Griswold's gonna a- appeal it and slow walk it and, um... Now, now she, for whatever reason, is not particularly popular anymore. Hey, go ahead. Did you... Something to say there?

[42:04] Speaker 8: Can, can I interrupt one more time?

[42:06] Speaker 2: Sure.

[42:06] Speaker 8: Have you seen the latest Phil Weiser commercial?

[42:09] Speaker 5: No.

[42:10] Speaker 8: Oh, you got to see it. So in the middle he says, "And I'll beat up on the, on, on, on, uh, you know, people like Trump." And then it says... No, he's, he fights Trump in court. So it says in the print, really bare- you can barely see it, but it says, "But Trump's mostly won." (laughs)

[42:28] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[42:29] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[42:29] Speaker 8: You gotta, you gotta see the commercial. It's real funny.

[42:32] Speaker 2: We'll have to look for that. Let's see, I'll see if I can find it then s-

[42:34] Speaker 5: All right.

[42:34] Speaker 2: But it's, but it's pretty funny.

[42:35] Speaker 5: It's good. Good.

[42:36] Speaker 2: It is pretty f- And this is from Dr. Donna. Just one reason I'm running a petition for home rule in Larimer County, but as we found last time, the establishment part of the party is the biggest wall we're coming up against.

[42:45] Speaker 5: Yes.

[42:46] Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, well, they, you know... Obviously, they want to just control things and keep things under their control.

[42:52] Speaker 5: Well, well, the thing about home rule, home rule-... means, it means that ostensibly, the legislature can't dictate what is to happen in Larimer County, 'cause it's own little thing. But who wants to d- who wants the left-wing legislature to dictate everything? Establishment. I mean, they are so far left. Barbara Kirkmeyer is so far left. I mean, Barbara Kirkmeyer might as well be a Democrat. She talks a good game, but as we said before, you know, she came on and, and Jeff Hunt asked one tough question, I think inadvertently, saying, "You got an F on the Liberty Scorecard-"

[43:24] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[43:24] Speaker 5: ... and the mask came down, and she was snarling and spitting and, and, and everything else. I mean, it's just an amazing, um-

[43:32] Speaker 2: And she'll probably be the gubernatorial candidate.

[43:35] Speaker 5: She'll undoubtedly be the du- gubernatorial candidate.

[43:38] Speaker 2: She'll lose, but...

[43:39] Speaker 5: Well, and she will undoubtedly lose by 20 points, and then we'll all be happy.

[43:43] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[43:43] Speaker 5: Um, you know, I mean, we don't spend any time on this show beating up Victor Marks. Um, not 'cause we think Victor Marks is a good candidate, not that we, we want Victor Marks. It's because we, Republicans and, and all the radio stations, uh, spend all their time, uh, not looking at Bennett and, and all his flaws, not looking at Hickenlooper. They spend all their time for somebody who came second, make it second at the Assembly behind somebody else.

[44:11] Speaker 2: And second significantly.

[44:12] Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, that's what they spend all their time, and they, "Yay! We got, we got this, this, uh, semi-grassroots guy out. Hooray! And now we can look forward to..." To what?

[44:23] Speaker 2: Right. (laughs)

[44:23] Speaker 5: What can you look forward to?

[44:24] Speaker 2: You can look forward to him losing to Bart Kirkmeyer.

[44:26] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[44:27] Speaker 2: And then you can look forward to Bart Kirkmeyer-

[44:28] Speaker 5: And then you have Bart Kirkmeyer getting slaughtered by, by, um-

[44:31] Speaker 2: Well, and you're right. And that's... And I'll just weigh in briefly on that. That's one of the reasons, 'cause we've had people talk to us and ask us, and, and I'm like, there are some times... And I think anyone who listens to our shows know we are not shy about talking about Republicans, the, particularly RINO Republicans that we, that we think are trying to destroy the party. Um, I don't think that's Victor Marks' deal. I think Victor Marks just wants to be governor. I don't think he wants to destroy the party. But the po- but our thing is, like you said, it's like, it, it doesn't matter. There are too many other things going on that we need to talk about. The Victor Marks squabble... Um, and I get why some people are going after it, and I get why some people, you know, to them it's such a significant deal.

[45:11] Speaker 5: Doesn't know what they're doing. You, you know, uh...

[45:11] Speaker 2: But, but it's like on the other hand, like you said, you know, sometimes you think, and I, I won't do this, but you kind of think, maybe I should register as a Democrat so I can vote for, vote for Michael Bennett-

[45:21] Speaker 5: Well, you-

[45:21] Speaker 2: ... over Phil Weiser.

[45:22] Speaker 5: You don't have to register as a Democrat all you have to do is be independent.

[45:25] Speaker 2: Well, well, okay, you're right. Just be an independent, unregistered.

[45:27] Speaker 5: Well, I've done that.

[45:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[45:28] Speaker 5: Uh, one year, I forget who ran, so I became an independent. And I might this time, because I think, I think whoever the Republican candidate is-

[45:35] Speaker 2: I think-

[45:35] Speaker 5: ... is gonna, is, is gonna get