[00:00] Speaker 1: (Dramatic music playing) Chuck and Julie, bringing you the truth, straight up.

[00:05] Speaker 2: I'm Julie Hayden and I'm working with the Denver Post.

[00:06] Speaker 1: An Emmy-winning former investigative reporter, a highly successful trial attorney, and publisher of a major Denver area newspaper. They've been partners as talk show hosts and in marriage, as parents, for over 10 years, providing thought-provoking information, opinion, and entertainment, live, local, and interactive. Everyone's voice is always welcome on The Chuck & Julie Show.

[00:34] Speaker 2: And hello, everybody. Welcome to The Chuck & Julie Show, the grassroots show, Truth Straight Up, with me, Julie Hayden, and Chuck Boniwell, who is, um, at the world headquarters of the Glendale Trail Qu- Chronicle right now, wrapping some stuff up, and, um, we're trying to get him logged in or, if not, we'll get him on the phone here real quick. Um, so we're gonna jump right into it, all kinds of stuff today. Um, the Colorado Republican Party State Assembly was held over the weekend, and we could probably spend several shows talking about what a cluster it was, and that's even putting it mildly. But instead we want to jump right to the great good news, the good grassroots news, and we go to the Colorado Hispanic Republicans Chairman, Raymond Garcia, who was leading the charge for the grassroots there. Raymond, hey, thank you for joining us. Appreciate your time today.

[01:17] Speaker 3: Hey, Julie. How you doing?

[01:18] Speaker 2: We're good. We're good, thank you. So, just kn-

[01:21] Speaker 3: Sorry, sorry you missed the assembly.

[01:23] Speaker 2: Oh. (laughs)

[01:23] Speaker 3: You missed a hell of a show.

[01:24] Speaker 2: (laughs) Yeah. It's like, I would have had to bring, like, sleeping bag and pajamas and overnight gear though, practically. (laughs) Um...

[01:32] Speaker 3: I was, I was about the first person in line that morning.

[01:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:37] Speaker 3: Um, sat right up front. I got in, into the building and was waiting in front of the tables, and I waited over four hours, like four and a half hours, just to get my badge. They didn't even start printing up badges s or ballots until that morning.

[01:52] Speaker 2: You know, we-

[01:52] Speaker 3: They should have it up two weeks earlier.

[01:54] Speaker 2: Uh, they, they should have, they should have had that, done that months ago, right? I mean, to, to say that Britta... I, I mean, it's a good thing she's leaving in a week, right? I mean, this was a... All of her meetings have been a disaster, but this certainly took the cake. And what really w- we wanna talk to you about is, so th- we've talked before about the federal judge, he handed us a huge victory by declaring a key portion of our open primary law unconstitutional. Colorado Rep- Republican Party lawyers, Randy Corpor and John Eastman, were poised to file... The winning lawyers on this case, were poised, poised to file paperwork that would have asked Jena Griswold to just send out Republican ballots to, Republican primary ballots, to Republicans when Britta fired Randy, for no reason at all, out of vindictiveness, and then sought to sabotage all of our work and efforts by ordering John Eastman not to do anything.

[02:43] Speaker 2: So you stood up to the plate and you, um, uh, basically, uh, overruled her. There were 15 RINOs who had supported her previously, but at the State Assembly, overwhelming support for the opt-out. Why don't you tell us all about it?

[02:56] Speaker 3: Well, yeah. So, um, yeah, the way you laid it out was perfect. Um, the... When the, uh, judge came back, um, we were ready to file the injunction and I- I asked the, uh, Secretary of State not to provide ballots to any unaffiliated, um, for... in the primary. Only to provide ballots to Republicans, um, which would go along with what the, the judge ruled, um, in a motion. So, the whole reason Britta was elected was to keep us in the open primary.

[03:25] Speaker 2: Exactly.

[03:25] Speaker 3: That's why all the, that's why all the, uh, um, elected officials were backing her and all the money, Barb Kirkmeyer and, uh, Ann Scheetz was backing her, so that they could keep us in the open primary.

[03:36] Speaker 2: Right.

[03:37] Speaker 3: So once, once she did that and, um, went against the SEC ruling and the body ruling and put... kept us in the open primary, they basically just cut her loose and let her go about dangling in the wind.

[03:49] Speaker 2: Right.

[03:49] Speaker 3: Now, ju- they didn't know the judge was going to come back and do this, so then they had to keep... they had to come in and get her recharged again and give her support again. So the only way they could do anything was to go to the body that she had control over, which is the ExCom, and, uh-

[04:05] Speaker 2: Right, which is a much smaller por- portion of the leadership, like 25 members or something.

[04:10] Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, it's, um, right at 24 members, I believe. Uh, anyway, um, yeah, it was four... Uh, yeah, it's 24 members, I believe. 20, uh, it was 15 to 9 were in the-

[04:22] Speaker 2: Okay.

[04:23] Speaker 3: Yeah. So, um, they knew that she would have the support there, so they could push it through, um, on a... in an emergency meeting. Well, they thought that was the, the end of it, uh.

[04:33] Speaker 2: Right.

[04:33] Speaker 3: But it wasn't. So after that, I had, I had originally said, we should just have 'em... we should just have our lawyers push it through anyway, just like she would do.

[04:43] Speaker 2: Right.

[04:43] Speaker 3: I mean, if it came back otherwise, she would push it through the way she wanted it, so why don't we do it? She's going to be gone anyway, you know?

[04:49] Speaker 2: Right.

[04:50] Speaker 3: But I was overruled, and, um, they thought-

[04:52] Speaker 2: Lawyers being lawyers, so, you know.

[04:54] Speaker 3: They, they had a... Uh, in retrospect, they had a much better idea.

[04:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[04:59] Speaker 3: Um, (laughs) we needed to take it to the people, and since we had the State Assembly coming up, we could take it to the people, run it by the people, and we knew how that was gonna go, so we did that. And Jeremy, um, put up a motion. Um, let me, let me tell you, I'll read the motion verbatim so that, um, we don't get it wrong.

[05:18] Speaker 2: Okay.

[05:18] Speaker 3: But, uh, what his motion was is, "I make a motion to censure the 15 State Executive Committee members who voted no on the major item of business on Thursday evening, April 9th, 2026, and request the body to vote how, uh, to vote now to allow John Eastman and Randy Corpin to immediately file, file a preliminary injunction ordering Secretary of State Jena Griswold to not provide Republican ballots to unaffiliated voters in the June 26, uh, 2026 primary, um, uh, Republican primary." That was Jeremy Goodall's motion. I seconded the motion. And then we went on to discussion. Now, we had already talked to the, um-... chair pro tem for that assembly.

[06:07] Speaker 2: Right.

[06:07] Speaker 3: Who, who is actually a really good guy. He really knows his shit.

[06:09] Speaker 2: Yeah. De- but Britta didn't share it. Everyone hates her. She's on her way out. She, she just kind of made a few introductory remarks and then sat down for the rest of the time.

[06:17] Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, sat there and scowled at everybody (laughs) . I was like-

[06:20] Speaker 2: No.

[06:20] Speaker 3: ... "What do we need you for then? What, what are you even here for? You're not doing anything."

[06:25] Speaker 2: Right.

[06:25] Speaker 3: You know, so... But anyway, um, so the, uh, chair pro tem had told us that, "Okay, make the motion. I'm going to rule it out of order, but the reason I'm going to rule it out of order is so that you can appeal to the body-"

[06:40] Speaker 2: Ah.

[06:40] Speaker 3: "... um, overrule, to overrule the, um, chair's decision." And that's exactly what we did. The body was like apoplectic when they first... So when Jeremy first made the motion, the crowd went wild. They, everybody loved it. Then the chair pro tem, um, ruled it out of order, everybody went apoplectic. They were pissed. And we were like, "Hold on, hold on. (laughs) Just wait a second."

[07:04] Speaker 2: Wait a minute. It's worth the memory.

[07:04] Speaker 3: "Relax. We got this. We're, we're, we have something going here." So, uh, they all calmed down. So then, uh, the chair let everybody know that he can appeal it to the body, which he did, and there was discussion. And in the discussion, here's the part that really got me. Um, one of the 15 members that voted no to, uh, getting us out of the open primary, uh, Kathleen Chandler, uh, went up to the mic, and in this, um, (sighs) display of absolute hubris, she, she went up there with the audacity that we, we could even question her or, or the 15 members of the ExCo. Y- you know, th- she, she made it, stomping her little foot there, saying that she knows better and that those 15 people know better than all of us.

[07:52] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[07:52] Speaker 3: And we don't, we don't, you know, we don't have the right to question their authority. And it was... I was like... And the crowd was really not happy with her, and she kept on going and I, I was standing right behind her and I'm like, "For Christ's sake, read the room, lady."

[08:06] Speaker 2: Yeah. (laughs)

[08:07] Speaker 3: I know, man.

[08:07] Speaker 2: You're not helping yourself here.

[08:09] Speaker 3: Daggers, man, daggers. If she could... if looks could kill. Yeah, so (laughs) , oh, yeah. So... But it went through, uh, the body. The body first deemed the chair, um, e- they overruled the chair so that it made it legal for us to hear it.

[08:26] Speaker 2: Ah.

[08:26] Speaker 3: And, uh, yeah. Um, then we heard the motion and the body overwhelmingly supported the motion.

[08:33] Speaker 2: Right.

[08:33] Speaker 3: So now, um-

[08:35] Speaker 2: Uh, and we should point out, this is like the, I don't know, the hundredth time? That the, the-

[08:39] Speaker 3: Oh, God.

[08:39] Speaker 2: ... that hundreds of Colorado Republican Party leadership members have overwhelmingly voted to pursue opting out of this disastrous open primary. So yet again, we passed it.

[08:50] Speaker 3: Yeah. And how can their side still, still stand there and say that, "No, it's not good for the Republican Party. This is not what we need"?

[08:58] Speaker 2: Right. And-

[08:59] Speaker 3: It, that's why it's, it's, it's hubris. It's absolutely hubris.

[09:02] Speaker 2: It's a... And let me, and let me interject too, just 'cause again, it gets confusing or maybe some people don't understand. Yes, the caucus and assembly system is messy, but at least it's the citizens who actually get to participate. What they want with the, the totally open primary, even the judge in the case acknowledged this, that Democrats are meddling in it and unaffiliated voters are meddling in it. And all it does is make it so that the deep-pocket, dark money donors are the ones who select the candidates, not the people. And that's why the RINO uni- party establishment folks like it, because they're in the deep pockets of the dark money donors.

[09:36] Speaker 3: Right. Absolutely. That's what... And that's what they want.

[09:39] Speaker 2: Right.

[09:39] Speaker 3: That's why they had to have Britta, so they could keep us in that open primary.

[09:42] Speaker 2: Right.

[09:43] Speaker 3: So-

[09:43] Speaker 2: Well, let me-

[09:43] Speaker 3: So here's another thing. Here's another thing.

[09:45] Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead.

[09:45] Speaker 4: Oh.

[09:45] Speaker 3: So you mentioned that Britta's gonna be-

[09:46] Speaker 4: Well, let me, let me, let me add something, 'cause I was there.

[09:49] Speaker 2: Okay, well, Chuck-

[09:50] Speaker 3: Oh, hey. How you doing?

[09:51] Speaker 4: Um-

[09:51] Speaker 3: Chuck. Good to see you, brother.

[09:52] Speaker 4: Yeah. Good to see you or talk to you anyway. Um, the, um, you know, th- th- this particular assembly was elected only in the past few weeks. Every time you have an assembly, you have a caucus, and then it goes from the local level to the count- uh, to the county, and then on to the Senate. But this is a brand-new assembly, um, which isn't anywhere necessarily, uh, like the other assembly, unlike the state central committee, which, which we know how it breaks. Um, and this one was so much more pro-, uh, closing the primary than any group I've seen. I mean, I mean, Ray is absolutely right. I mean, they were rabid. When it looked like the chair was gonna attempt to stop them from voting, you know, he's lucky he didn't get lynched. You know it.

[10:40] Speaker 3: Yes.

[10:41] Speaker 2: Right. (laughs)

[10:41] Speaker 4: Oh, oh, oh.

[10:41] Speaker 2: And Johnny is saying that Kathleen Chandler almost got beat down (laughs) so-

[10:46] Speaker 4: Well, uh, Kathleen Chandler, and I, I like Kathleen on a personal basis, but, you know, she works for the Independence Institute and they're hubris. You know, she's like, "Well, I'll charm him." And he said, "What? How can you question me?" You know, everybody, "Boo, execute her, execute her."

[11:01] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[11:01] Speaker 4: "Execute her, burn her at the stake." I mean, I've never seen somebody so... (laughs) And, and she's not used to that in her life. You can see her, she's going, "Why? Y- you all hate me?" "Yeah, we hate you. We, you know, we want you gone." Oh, it, it was such a beautiful moment.

[11:16] Speaker 2: Well, Ray, and that was-

[11:16] Speaker 4: A beautiful moment.

[11:17] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[11:17] Speaker 2: ... I just want to say, that was beautifully executed by you guys, because they keep thinking, the establishment, that they have beat us down and, and instead, all that happens is the support for opting out of this disastrous open primary, since which, by the way, it's been in effect, no Republican has been elected to statewide office. So that's how well it's working. Um, it, the support for, for opting out and just having Republicans vote in Republican primaries grows all the time, and they just hate that.

[11:47] Speaker 3: Yes. Now, um, Jay, I gotta, I gotta clarify one thing. Um, me, I, I am not the one that should get credit for this. Um, Jeremy Goodall.

[11:57] Speaker 4: No, I thought... I, I, I thought I, no, I thought... Oh no.

[11:59] Speaker 3: Yeah. (laughs) You too, Chuck. You too.

[12:02] Speaker 2: Okay, you wanna take it.

[12:03] Speaker 3: No, Jeremy Goodall.

[12:04] Speaker 2: ... and Jeremy Goodall- As Jeremy Goodall was by far the, the pushing, the, the one that had the ideas and everything on this. So yeah, I will definitely give him the credit for m- all of this Who is running for chair, by the way. He's running for chair of the party, Jeremy Goodall Yeah. Yes, he is

[12:18] Speaker 4: That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[12:18] Speaker 2: Well, and Chuck, let me ask you-

[12:19] Speaker 4: Can you, can you-

[12:20] Speaker 2: ... 'cause, 'cause I know that, that the idea was ... I mean time kind of matters here obviously, because you know, ballots go out I think in early June, and have to be returned by the end of June-

[12:31] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[12:31] Speaker 2: ... in the primary. Um, so do you have any sense when Randy and John might be doing this, or have they maybe even done it already? Chuck? Uh-

[12:43] Speaker 4: Oh, do I have any idea?

[12:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[12:44] Speaker 4: Uh, I, I assume they probably have already done it. I, I assume it's alre- I ... 'Cause I think, you know, they would have prepared it before, so if I had to guess, it's already been filed. Now that doesn't mean that the judge is gonna, you know, he ... Preliminary injunction you're supposed to hear forthwith, but that forthwith is up to a federal judge.

[13:00] Speaker 2: Who knows what the judge will do. Yeah.

[13:01] Speaker 4: So I think the filing ... I assume the filing's already been done, and we're waiting for the judge whether he'll set a hearing or do whatever he's gonna do.

[13:09] Speaker 2: Well- Yeah, I would agree with Chuck on that one 100%, 'cause when I, when I was talking about that, "Well let's just send our ... send, send them in now. What, what difference does it make?" 'Cause and the, the, the comments that came back were, "Well, what's the difference between Friday night and Monday morning? Yeah. Well anyway this is like

[13:29] Speaker 4: And like, well, like-

[13:29] Speaker 2: And again, here it once again becomes obvious it has the clear support of the body. The ... And not even-

[13:35] Speaker 4: Exactly.

[13:35] Speaker 2: I mean, there, there were what? A couple of thousand people there, right? This isn't just 25 people-

[13:39] Speaker 4: Yes. Yes.

[13:39] Speaker 2: ... even 400 people. And Chuck, you-

[13:42] Speaker 4: No, no.

[13:43] Speaker 2: ... very correctly point out-

[13:44] Speaker 4: Correctly.

[13:44] Speaker 2: ... it's not the same Assembly that, uh, what a year ago voted for it. It's a whole different group of delegates, or many of them different. Well, so, so where do things, Raymond and Juno, I mean, where do things go from here? So we hope ... Ideally the judge would say, "Okay, in this upcoming election you have to be republican to vote in the republican primary." Frankly, I'm not gonna hold my breath on that, but where do you see things going from here?

[14:07] Speaker 2: May- may- Maybe it's

[14:08] Speaker 4: Yeah, the ... Well, you said it right. Exactly. I'm not gonna hold my breath for the judge to side with that. And then, um, once that happens, is Jenna Griswold actually going to in f- um, not send out unaffiliated-

[14:20] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[14:20] Speaker 4: Which I think she would anyway. So yeah, we still got a lot of- No, I, I, I don't think

[14:24] Speaker 2: ... uh, hurdles.

[14:24] Speaker 4: I don't think she'd, she'd want to have contempt because, uh, even she as, as hubris as she has, the ... to, to ignore a court order from a federal court is a good way to get yourself-

[14:35] Speaker 2: But they could probably appeal it though, couldn't she?

[14:37] Speaker 4: ... to prison for 30 days.

[14:37] Speaker 2: Couldn't she appeal it?

[14:38] Speaker 4: No. Well, she could appeal and try, try to get up to the Tenth Circuit, but then that's another court would have to move very quickly.

[14:45] Speaker 2: Okay. But the guy- Going, going forward and, and you know, and again, we, we, we, we don't need to touch on what a disas- ... Well, we do need to touch on what a disaster the meeting was, but I think again, all these people you know, who say, "Oh, you know, the opt out. It's like, I like the lawsuit but, but I'm not sure. La la la." They are all just lying through their teeth to you. They're just being bought and paid for by the donors, because they don't want people at the ... So for instance, here's a perfect example. Jeff Heard, who was bu- booed by the way at the CD3 Assembly for being such a RINO and betraying President Trump, is now being challenged by Ron Hanks. Ron Hanks got on the ballot through the Assembly process.

[15:23] Speaker 2: If we didn't have this, if all we had were no Assembly, which is what the RINOs want, and all it was was you had to petition onto the ballot and it was just all about who had the money, candidates like Ron, maybe even Scott Bottoms who has a top line, would not even be able to get on the ballot. Um, and that's what they want actually, they want grassroots crushed. But this preserves the grassroots candidates I think

[15:47] Speaker 4: Yes, it does.

[15:49] Speaker 2: Okay. And just-

[15:50] Speaker 4: And that's why they want to get rid of it open ... or that's why they want to get rid of the caucus and the Assemblies.

[15:55] Speaker 2: Listen, and just so-

[15:55] Speaker 4: Yeah, that's why they want to have general primaries and they're all-

[15:58] Speaker 2: That's nothing-

[15:58] Speaker 4: ... beating the drums for it.

[16:00] Speaker 2: Chuck, and where do you see this thing going? 'Cause I think who knows what the judge will do. What, what do J- Randy and John do next then?

[16:09] Speaker 4: Well, (laughs) what do they do next? Um, then the, then the question becomes ... this is a little technical, but do they ask the judge ... The judge indicated in, in his ruling where he granted the opt out that he probably wouldn't find the entire law unconstitutional. And so they have a choice. So you can say, "Well, you didn't rule it out, so let's have our trial on whether the whole thing is unconstitutional." Or do they say, "You've kind of told us what you think anyway, go ahead and grant the other side, uh, their summary judgment so we can appeal it up to the Tenth Circuit." Um, so it's one of those two paths. Uh, one gives us a second bite at the apple, even though the chances are very small. But, but it also means how do we pay for this in, uh, trial? Or do we go automatically to an appeal process and the cost for that is, is a fraction of what hav- is that you have a trial followed by an appeal. So they're gonna have to decide which of the two they want to go.

[17:09] Speaker 2: Well- (laughs) And-

[17:10] Speaker 4: Well, Chuck, there's also-

[17:12] Speaker 2: Oh. Go ahead, Ray.

[17:12] Speaker 4: Chuck, there's also the ... So if the judge came ... the judge came back and said that the 75% is unconstitutional, so I would argue that would push it back to the original vote we had under Dave Williams-

[17:24] Speaker 2: Yep.

[17:25] Speaker 4: ... where 64% voted to get us out, and that should've met the threshold.

[17:31] Speaker 2: Yeah. But-

[17:32] Speaker 4: Well, yeah, but I mean what, what, what but- but ... And that's really what the preliminary injunction that Randy and John are going in. They said, "You, you ruled unconstitutional. Us unconstitutional means from the beginning, so our vote before was good, and therefore you should grant us our preliminary injunction and prevent 'em from sending out the ballots." So that's really the argument-

[17:53] Speaker 2: Yes.

[17:53] Speaker 4: ... you're gonna have. Uh, but that's-

[17:55] Speaker 2: Yes.

[17:55] Speaker 4: ... gonna be, you know, it's before the judge and I agree with both of you that, you know, I wouldn't hold my breath either. But it's a chat, you know. Nobody thought the judge after we lost the preliminary injunction last time was gonna all of a sudden rule that the opt out was unconstitutional. So maybe we're on a winning streak.

[18:12] Speaker 2: You know, and it's kind of funny, Heidi Ganahl's Rocky Mountain Voice actually finally covered this a little bit for the first time and indicated ... and then, then they wrote, "And for the first time, the discussions about the opt-out are not behind closed doors anymore." (laughs) And now we're going to have the discussion. It's like, where have you been? Well, I... we know where you've been.

[18:29] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[18:30] Speaker 2: (laughs) It's like-

[18:30] Speaker 4: Yeah. Congratulations, Heidi, yeah.

[18:31] Speaker 2: ... like this hasn't been... it's been a discussed, oh, I don't know, a million times behind open doors and every time we say we vote overwhelmingly for it. I don't even know what they're talking about. "Well, I guess now we have to decide what we want to do." It's like, "Hello? We've already decided over and over and over again."

[18:48] Speaker 4: But Julie-

[18:48] Speaker 2: But those

[18:49] Speaker 3: But Julie-

[18:49] Speaker 2: RINOs, they are tenacious.

[18:51] Speaker 3: But Julie, have you heard what they say? Um, the other side is still pushing the narratives that we didn't even get 50% on the vote.

[18:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[18:59] Speaker 3: They're still pushing that narrative.

[19:01] Speaker 2: I know. (laughs)

[19:01] Speaker 3: Still pushing the narrative that, "Well, how are we going to pay for it?" And it's like, wait a minute, mm, how are we going to pay for it? We're literally saying don't print ballots for unaffiliated, which means we don't have to pay for unaffiliated ballots to be printed.

[19:15] Speaker 5: Right. Right.

[19:15] Speaker 3: We don't have to pay for unaffiliated ballots to be mailed. This is going to cost less money.

[19:21] Speaker 2: Yes.

[19:21] Speaker 3: So what do you mean how are we going to pay for it? It's going to cost us less.

[19:24] Speaker 5: (laughs)

[19:24] Speaker 2: Well, and here's the other thing, again, the RINOs and the established like to pretend like this is some bizarre new system sending Republican primary ballots to Republicans only. That's how we did it for decades-

[19:36] Speaker 3: It's 2015.

[19:36] Speaker 2: ... before 2016.

[19:38] Speaker 3: Yes.

[19:38] Speaker 2: It's like we're not reinventing the wheel here. We're just going back to the wheel that worked, right?

[19:43] Speaker 3: Yes.

[19:43] Speaker 2: It's like, and they try to make it sound like, "Well, how will we ever get this done?" (laughs) It's like, the same way we did it before. And again, I found it just interesting that reading, the judge noted that there was plenty of evidence that showed that unaf-... it, it'd be, as we've argued before, it'd be like letting the Kansas City Chiefs draft the Denver Broncos quarterback, right? Well, (laughs) what do we think would happen? And the judge noted that's exactly what's happening in the elections, that the vote of the, in the Republican primary is not reflective of what the Republican Party wants. It's reflective of what the Democrats and Democrat-leaning unaffiliated want.

[20:15] Speaker 4: Well, at least what the unaffiliates want. I mean, it's, it's clear that, you know, and, uh, already in Boulder, Denver, and some other counties, um, there are more unaffiliates voting in the Republican primary than there are Republicans. I mean, that's, that's pretty amazing when you come to think of it. (laughs)

[20:33] Speaker 2: Right. Right.

[20:34] Speaker 4: You know, the Republican primary in which Republicans are a minority.

[20:38] Speaker 2: Right. It's, it's-

[20:39] Speaker 4: Yeah, have fun, guys-

[20:40] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[20:40] Speaker 4: ... for, for your own, quote-unquote, "primary."

[20:43] Speaker 2: Well, and again, I go back, since th- th- you know, 2016, we've had m- since it went into effect, we've had no statewide elected officials. So it's, it's not working. And, and, and, um, and it's, it's meddling and, and, uh, you know. Again, the, the donors don't like it because then they have to spend more money to get their candidates to win, um, and, and people actually have a choice, not between just two, you know, RINO candidates. Um, well, Ray, listen, well then, well let me actually briefly, let me get you to kind of weigh in a second, um, on the assembly itself. I mean, it took you, said, what, four and a half hours?

[21:17] Speaker 2: To set up-

[21:17] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[21:18] Speaker 2: What was, what was, what was the... Uh, uh, well, I guess it wasn't even just say what was the problem. What were the problems?

[21:24] Speaker 3: There was nothing but problems in that whole thing. One, okay, well, to start off with, they s- they didn't have anything ready. So the ballots should have been printed up weeks in advance. The, the badges should have been printed up weeks in advance. They were printed up that morning.

[21:39] Speaker 2: Wow.

[21:40] Speaker 3: Then I guess they gave access to Victor Marx's camp to get into the building and put up all his signs and take over the room where the ballots-

[21:50] Speaker 2: Wow.

[21:50] Speaker 3: ... the, where the ballots were being printed and counted, where the badges were being printed, um, so, yeah, there was a bunch of malfeasance going on there. When, uh, we had to have... they had some kind of crazy scan system. Once you got your ballot, you had to scan it in, which I didn't understand what the hell that was about. And if you left, you had to scan out. When you came back in, you had to scan it again.

[22:11] Speaker 3: Well, come to find out, when they took the, the count on the ballots, there was, I guess, 80 more-

[22:18] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[22:19] Speaker 3: ... uh, somewhere around 80 more ballots than there were, um-

[22:22] Speaker 2: Ballots-

[22:22] Speaker 3: ... elect-

[22:23] Speaker 2: Ballot holders. (laughs)

[22:24] Speaker 3: Yeah. So, yeah. So, how that came about. So they tried to say it was because the, some people left and came in, didn't re-scan their badges, kind of thing like that. Well, I asked a simple question. I said, "So there was two different ballots that we cast. One was for the governor and one was for all the other races. How many differences were there in the two different, um, ballots?" So, uh, in other words, how many ballots were turned in for the governor's race and how many ballots were turned in for the other elections that we had. Um, the m- the number came back 77.

[22:58] Speaker 2: Ha.

[22:59] Speaker 3: So I'm like, "Oh. So now we know the miraculous about 80 number."

[23:05] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[23:05] Speaker 3: So (laughs) it's saying that 80 people or, uh, um, 77 people voted, or there were 77 ballots for the governor race that didn't vote for the other race.

[23:15] Speaker 2: That's-

[23:15] Speaker 3: Where did those come from?

[23:16] Speaker 2: (laughs) It's, I do find it interesting, uh, you know, Victor Marx had predicted he would win by more than 50%, um, um, and that did not happen. Uh, Scott Bottoms handily took, I think, sc- he's got, got like 45-

[23:30] Speaker 3: 45.

[23:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, 45%.

[23:31] Speaker 3: Which was exactly, yeah, that was the exact number I had predicted Scott was going to take. I said he was going to take-

[23:36] Speaker 2: And Scott, and Scott, so that means Scott takes the top line, um, um-

[23:39] Speaker 3: Yes.

[23:39] Speaker 2: And, yeah, I gather, well, we won't go into the-

[23:42] Speaker 4: Well, you know, I, I, I want to get, get Ray's view. I mean, it, it's interesting because like you, I was in line forever. And so some of the candidates would come out and, and, you know, talk to the people, the delegates or the supporters and everything else, and come down the line, which is great.

[23:57] Speaker 3: Yes.

[23:57] Speaker 4: And then Victor Marx comes and it's, it's full, it's full fascista. I mean, he's, he's got two cops, he's got Black security guards. I mean, dressed in black security guards and a whole... I mean, it, it was like, it was like the biggest, you know, uh, fascistic thing I'd ever seen. And I ca- I was with, of course, who was-

[24:18] Speaker 2: Fascistic to what? To like-

[24:19] Speaker 4: Planned, b-

[24:20] Speaker 6: ... white-haired people.

[24:23] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[24:23] Speaker 6: Yeah, they- you know, he's terrified they were gonna rush him and, and kill him or something. Uh, but, but he just walked around just like he was, you know, beneath him was the lady. I mean, it was amazing and I know that law, l- you know, I was at the Adams County, that law that's in the half dozen, uh, votes alone. People going, "Wait a minute."

[24:42] Speaker 2: Oh, my god.

[24:42] Speaker 6: I, I, I mean (laughs) , I don't know how you feel about it.

[24:44] Speaker 2: Well, Chuck, did you notice- did you notice that his people got to come in the side door and didn't have to go through the metal detectors like everybody else? Wow

[24:53] Speaker 6: Yeah, I did notice that. (laughs)

[24:55] Speaker 2: Wow.

[24:55] Speaker 6: Yep.

[24:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. So his-

[24:56] Speaker 2: (laughs Yep. So his people- That's crazy ... sure, yeah, his people, I'm sure, were armed, but not a- now, here's another thing. So if you go to, when you were going to Pueblo from the Denver area or Colorado Springs, um, along I-25, there's a trucking company that, incidentally, is owned by, um, the committee chairwoman's husband that had a big sign on one of the, um, sides of the containers they had for Victor Marx. Oh, Christy Fedora? Oh, that's interesting. Oh, yeah. I, I would, I didn't know- How is that not- Yeah, I didn't know where there was still- you would think that they would be for Kirkmeier, but who knows? Well, and maybe, maybe again- Mm, yeah. ... you never know what kind of meddling is going on. Who, who, who the RINOs think will maybe would give, you know, Barb the best chance or something. I don't know. Oh, that's what I think. Ah. Ah, okay. Yeah. Hey, this, Ray, let me, final thoughts before, because we have another guest coming on here in a couple minutes. Final just thoughts and, you know, I, and I guess just observations from the weekend. Yeah, so the whole, the whole thing, Britta didn't do anything with it (laughs)

[25:57] Speaker 6: and she sat there and didn't do anything, um, at it. Um, it was all- so now they, they say it was all, uh, volunteers. Well, come to find out, it was Christy Fedora and, um, Natalie Tennant and all those guys- Yeah

[26:09] Speaker 2: ... that were running the whole thing.

[26:10] Speaker 6: Yes.

[26:11] Speaker 2: And, and they had a very big skew for Victor Marx. Oh

[26:16] Speaker 6: Yeah. Even then, he didn't take, uh, he

[26:19] Speaker 2: No.

[26:19] Speaker 6: ... he barely got, you know, and so...

[26:21] Speaker 2: Oh, and Wes and I were saying that he-

[26:22] Speaker 6: Even with the- I, I, I think one of the things, I mean Christy Fedora, um, I, I think, uh, took a severe, uh, beating for her chances for bigger office or continue to win by, uh, she ran the thing

[26:36] Speaker 2: Oh.

[26:36] Speaker 6: ... as the world's worst thing.

[26:37] Speaker 2: Did you hear-

[26:38] Speaker 6: And she said, wh-

[26:40] Speaker 2: Well, let me, one point, because West-

[26:42] Speaker 6: I know.

[26:42] Speaker 2: ... Westheimer is, is texting me that Fedora violated neutrality with that trailer billboard. That's for sure, too. So, um, hey, this is-

[26:49] Speaker 6: I agree on that 100%.

[26:51] Speaker 2: We've got a, I'm-

[26:51] Speaker 6: Wait, I got one more thing.

[26:53] Speaker 2: Go, go, go.

[26:53] Speaker 6: Oh, I know, but I-

[26:54] Speaker 2: Sure.

[26:54] Speaker 6: Oh, so, um, I heard, I heard something about, and I think it was CD7, for the Board of Edu- State Board of Education, they had a, um, election being held on Friday and one of the candidates that was there that was gonna be nominated from the floor, Christy Fedora, had them removed illegally.

[27:13] Speaker 2: Oh, wow.

[27:14] Speaker 6: And- For the vote, and then rushed through the vote before they could get back in. And, um, Eric Grossman ended up having to come in and get them back in on the floor, because they were not, um, supposed to be removed, so that it was end- by that time, it was already over, so the candidate wasn't able to get nominated from the floor, so that Christy Fedora's candidate Wow ... could be the one pushed through

[27:34] Speaker 2: A lot of stuff to be looking into.

[27:35] Speaker 6: She actually removed, yeah, she actually removed somebody so they couldn't be nominated. I was like, holy Mona.

[27:40] Speaker 2: Okay. Oh, and I think Wes, again, you're saying CD3, not 7, but yes. Um, all right. Yeah, and you-

[27:45] Speaker 6: CD3, that was right, CD3.

[27:46] Speaker 2: CD3, and it was Steven Varela. It was Steven Varela, is what it was.

[27:49] Speaker 6: That's correct.

[27:50] Speaker 2: It was former. So-

[27:51] Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the name. Yep, that's correct.

[27:52] Speaker 2: That's wild. And we've done plenty of stuff on him. So, um, he's, he used to be a Democrat, right? Isn't he the one that was the former Democrat?

[27:59] Speaker 6: Yeah.

[27:59] Speaker 2: Hey, listen.

[28:00] Speaker 6: Yeah.

[28:00] Speaker 2: We've gotta let you go because I don't want to be late for the other guests, and there's gonna be so much more to talk about in this, guys. Um, and you know what? We're the only place, I think, really, that you're gonna hear about it. Um, so Ray, we will have you back on. We'll keep everybody posted, okay? Thank you, Ray, for your time. Appreciate it.

[28:13] Speaker 6: Thanks for having me. Thanks, Ray

[28:15] Speaker 2: All right, and, and now-

[28:16] Speaker 6: Take care. Thanks, Wood

[28:17] Speaker 2: We've got another, another citizen victory, so we want to turn now to Lakewood, um, and we have our guest on the line, and Chuck, I'll go ahead and let you introduce her.

[28:27] Speaker 6: All right. It's Karen Gaudet. She has the Lakewood Citizens Alliance, um, and they, they won a referendum, an extraordinary referendum overcoming incredible odds. Karen, thanks for joining the program.

[28:40] Speaker 7: Thanks for having me.

[28:42] Speaker 2: So Karen, you're seeing-

[28:43] Speaker 6: So why don't you tell us what-

[28:43] Speaker 2: ... but you're hearing Chuck. (laughs)

[28:46] Speaker 6: Yeah, you're hearing me. I'm on, I'm on, I'm in, at the moon or something. Um, why don't you tell us what the, what the battle was and what your group, uh, were, were, uh, trying to, uh, help, uh, Lakewood with?

[29:00] Speaker 7: Okay. So, so last year, uh, the Lakewood City Council passed... Well, let's start with August 25th, they were supposed to pass one zoning ordinance to essentially upzone the entire city. So Lakewood was meeting the state mandate of high density along transit corridors, uh, the, there's still a question whether or not they were meeting the no parking minimums on the transit corridors or not, but their answer was, "Well, we're already meeting that, so we're going to blanket upzone the city." On August 25th, they decided instead of having one ordinance, they were going to break it into four ordinances, which meant if we wanted to run a referendum, it turned into four referendums. So between August and October, they passed four ordinances. We pa- and then we ran four referendums.

[29:58] Speaker 7: Um, and they kind of gave us a little bit of a break on the first one, because they didn't sign and date it correctly, so they gave us some extra time, um, because it wasn't certified properly, um, and then we were off to the races. Per the city charter, you have to have a minimum of 3,517 signatures on each referendum. At the end of the day, um-We had over 35-17 on all four. We had, um, 6,000 unique signatures, or just over 6,000 unique signatures by the time it was done. Um, and in January, after a protest of the first three referendums, in January they said, "Yes, all four referendums have sufficiency," and they voted to send it to a special election that occurred on April 7th. Um...

[30:56] Speaker 4: Just to simple- simplify it for people, basically the city said they were going to get rid of single family zoning, and they were going to have multi-housing allowed in what was previously single family zoning. So you could have mul- you could have duplexes, triplexes, any other densification. They're trying to densify the City of, of Lakewood and get rid of single family homes, or single family zoning, um, and that's what the citizens were fighting against. And that's what Karen was helping, uh, lead the citizens with.

[31:31] Speaker 7: 100%, yes.

[31:33] Speaker 2: So what happened then? Well, yeah, 'cause, I mean, we heard about the... I mean, we, we know that, you know, that they used this to try to social engineer the city's, uh... You know, for whatever reason, I guess they hate families and single family homes, um, and nice yards and parks and things like that. They just want high density development along transit lines that no one rides or uses because they're too dangerous. Um, so Karen, what happened on April 7th?

[31:55] Speaker 7: (laughs) April 7th, we won, uh, two to one essentially. So, um, it was absolutely amazing. Um, we had yard signs and shoe leather. Um, we were outspent dramatically, as you can imagine. They raised almost $300,000.00. We raised just over, uh, just over $42,000.00. Uh, but we had grit and determination and tenacity, and a lot of passionate people. Um, by the time it was all said and done, between our circulators, to our canvassers, to our phone callers, we had about 84 volunteers all over the city. Our ground game was second to none, um, w- and we crushed it. Um, the, the interesting thing is, so it was four questions 'cause of the four referendums. Each question passed by over 22,000 votes. That is significant i- in two things, because it was 32% to 33% of the electorate came out.

[33:01] Speaker 2: Wow.

[33:02] Speaker 7: But when our mayor-

[33:02] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[33:03] Speaker 7: ... was elected two years ago, she only got 47% of the vote, or just over 47%. And in that, that race, it was a, it was a three-person race, but she only received 21,136 votes-

[33:19] Speaker 2: Oh.

[33:19] Speaker 4: Wow.

[33:19] Speaker 7: ... to be mayor. So with a special election, we beat her by a thousand. And, and so that kind of throws the narrative out that, well, it's not a significant amount of the population, 'cause if you say 22,000 is not a significant amount, well then...

[33:37] Speaker 2: (laughs) That's what, who elected you?

[33:39] Speaker 7: Right. Who elected the mayor, right? And so, um...

[33:41] Speaker 4: Well, what, what the other, what the other side had w- w- was, you know, every prominent democrat you'd possibly have. They had Brittany Peterson, they had Michael Bennet, who is obviously a senator now running for governor. They had the ACLU, they had AARP, um, they had the entire city council, they had the mayor, um, and every, every major democratic group you can, you can imagine. Um, and, and are... As well as behind-the-scenes support from Polis, who was trying to impose his high density housing on every city in Colorado. And there's a lawsuit, um, on whether the, um, of on home rule, whether th- he can force cities to have high density housing. Um, but they had... You know, there's a strange devil's alliance, um, between the far left and developers. Devel- high density developers, uh, have come to love the far left, uh, and you make money when you subdivide property. It's interesting you called it upzoning. Um, and I love the left because it used to be called downzoning.

[34:47] Speaker 4: When you took something and you made it denser and denser and denser, it was called downzoning. And the democrats didn't like that, said, "Well, we'll just call that, that, uh, we'll call it now upzoning. It used to be downzoning, but down, down doesn't sound good, so now it's upzoning." Oh, okay. Um, but they had all the money, they had all the developers, they had all the politicians, they had all the king's men, um, and they got crushed by, by an incredible, uh, alliance of, of small citizens headed by Karen, and a huge army of volunteers. And it's just one of those, you know, wonderful, wonderful stories you sometimes get in politics.

[35:26] Speaker 7: Well, and, and yet the other thing about the Lakewood Citizens Alliance, 'cause it, w- what we learned from the referendum process, here, here's what was unusual about that. Um, we went from a small group, that's what city council was calling us, to this large army. But when people signed the referendum, it was far right, it was far left, everything in between, young and old, and then, um, the environmentalists joined us. So this, this alliance was across all political spectrums. And we all had conversations in, in the normal, um, party versus party politics, were not at issue for us, um, as a whole. Um, I will tell you, when we built out the website, that was a huge undertaking, and I did meet with both far right and far left to understand what verbiage I should use so that it doesn't alienate either party.... um, 'cause we needed everybody in this fight, right?

[36:30] Speaker 7: Um, and so at that point, ver- at the very, very beginning when we're building the website, yes, there was a little bit of division, um, because if you talk, you know, constitution and property rights, that doesn't necessarily resonate with the, um, (clears throat) far left Democrats. And so-

[36:51] Speaker 4: Right.

[36:51] Speaker 7: ... it's using that neutral language to keep everybody happy and moving to the same goal.

[36:57] Speaker 2: Well, and here's the thing, it, because what, it, you know, it, it really isn't, to a certain extent, a p- political party issue. It's like, you know, if you want to live in a high density neighborhood, well, you can move downtown, right? If you-

[37:09] Speaker 7: Yes.

[37:10] Speaker 2: ... want to live in a suburb and have single family homes and neighborhood schools and parks and things like that, then you move to Lakewood or something like that. It, it's not... But, and you know, and let me ask you this. I'm assuming that you guys tried to explain all of this to the City Council before saying, "Hey, wait. No, we don't like you doing..." And the City Council does what city councils so often do in their arrogance, they said, "Oh, well, screw you citizens and the constituents, we're gonna, we're gonna tell you what your city's gonna look like." I mean, is that what happened?

[37:38] Speaker 7: 100%, so on August 25th, several hundred cit- uh, citizens showed up, you know, begging and pleading to slow it down. And you can go back and watch the video, and they very, very specifically said, "No, we're gonna rush this through, this needs to be passed before the November election. We do not know what council's gonna look like, um, next year, and we need to pass this now." Um, and, and honestly, I think that was part of it, but then you just had to look a little bit south at Littleton. So last January, February, Littleton tried to pass the same type of zoning, people showed up, and so Littleton City Council said, "Okay, we're gonna wait six months, let's, let's slow this down." Well, in that six-month pause, the citizens were already organized and they ran a charter amendment, and that charter amendment was on the November ballot and passed.

[38:35] Speaker 7: Now, the problem is that the way that charter amendment was written, it's not necessarily constitutional now because of all the state laws that have passed. And so, we are working with our attorney to figure out how we can do a charter amendment because we have a six-month pause now on zoning. Sure, we'll go back to the table if City Council says, "We're gonna open it up for discussion," um, but we also need to get our ducks in a row and potentially do a citizen's initiative to-

[39:03] Speaker 2: Oh, sure.

[39:04] Speaker 7: ... put this in our charter.

[39:05] Speaker 2: Well, 'cause you know they're gonna try to sneak it through some other time, right? They'll-

[39:08] Speaker 7: 100%, and then-

[39:10] Speaker 2: ... have a movement.

[39:10] Speaker 7: ... we'll be right back here 'cause we're organized, we know how to run four referendums now. It's a lot of work, but we know how to do it, and I think that scares them because we are so organized.

[39:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

[39:23] Speaker 4: Well, a- you know, in 2019, the citizens of Lakewood had a similar fight where they, they didn't want endless, endless, more and more densification, so they voted to limit the number of housing permits, um, that could be had. And the City Council just a little while ago said, no, that, that, uh, limitation will expire in a year or two. Um, so it is a matter of you have to constantly be fighting the left, um, as, as they figure every way possible around it. So it's, it's, it is interesting. I mean, you know, the, whether the state law that requires densification is valid, um, it's certainly subject to a lawsuit. And, you know, of course you're talking about Democratic judges, there's not a single active De- Republican judge in the state because they've all been appointed by Polis or his Democratic predecessors. So, it is a constant fight that Karen and, and the citizens of Lakewood have.

[40:23] Speaker 4: And I, I wish, um, this would, you know, I hope this will, uh, result in new different, uh, different City Council people, mayors and everything else that, that don't just tow the left-wing line. But who knows? 'Cause Lakewood certainly is turning farther and farther left in its, in its elections, at least for City Council and mayor.

[40:47] Speaker 7: H- 100%. So our entire council and mayor are progressive Democrats, and I think that's what makes this win even that much more fascinating, is we beat them two to one, and they're all progressive Democrats. Um, I, I know talk... I don't think they were expecting, you know, a two to one ratio. I don't think we were expecting-

[41:07] Speaker 4: Right.

[41:08] Speaker 7: ... that.

[41:08] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[41:08] Speaker 7: But we'll take it. (laughs)

[41:10] Speaker 2: Well, people-

[41:10] Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.

[41:12] Speaker 2: ... people, we had some of those discussions during w- we live in Westminster, in the Westminster City Council race, and, and Kathy Stroud, a candidate who narrowly lost, w- you know, would point out, as I said earlier, if people want high density, tall apartment buildings, there are plenty of places where they can go live there, even though they're way overbuilt right now so they have their choice of them. But if people want something different, then, then that's why they live in Westminster or Lakewood in the first place.

[41:38] Speaker 2: Um-

[41:39] Speaker 7: 100%.

[41:40] Speaker 2: So yeah. It's, so it's, yeah, it's not like we're trying to limit anyone's choices. We're just trying to protect the choices that people who already live there have made.

[41:48] Speaker 7: Correct, and they say this-

[41:49] Speaker 4: Well, they always say-

[41:50] Speaker 7: ... is the missing middle.

[41:50] Speaker 4: ... they say they're doing it, they say they're doing it for affordability so more people could get, buy in. Affordability by driving down the prices of people's homes? Um-

[42:00] Speaker 7: Yeah.

[42:00] Speaker 4: Is that affordability? Uh, and there are plenty of places you can buy townhomes and triplexes and, and, and their idea of affor- affordability is they'll just replace a single family home that would cost maybe a half million dollars and put up three townhomes costing a half million dollars each. You know, they're not any more affordable, uh-

[42:21] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[42:21] Speaker 4: ... but that, that's the mantra (laughs) th- that the Democrats have. I mean, it's just, it's just-

[42:26] Speaker 7: Yes, a-

[42:26] Speaker 4: ... an amazing wonder.

[42:27] Speaker 7: ... and they say it's-

[42:27] Speaker 4: I, I don't-

[42:27] Speaker 7: ... for the missing middle.... which is two-plexes, tri-plexes and townhomes, and we have plenty of those in Lakewood already. We had a forum, um, with myself and the campaign manager for the no side, and we finally got her, to hear her say, "Well, affordable is subsidized." Well, then that's a whole different conversation-

[42:47] Speaker 2: Right.

[42:47] Speaker 7: ... and we don't want subsidized housing either. (laughs)

[42:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Hey, well, Karen, listen, we're gonna have to let you go. Thank you for coming on the show, and, and we're gonna have to import you to Westminster-

[42:57] Speaker 7: Okay.

[42:57] Speaker 2: ... 'cause I'm sure this fight is coming to our neighborhood, too. (laughs) Congratulations, and thank you for all the work you do.

[43:03] Speaker 7: Absolutely, thank you.

[43:03] Speaker 4: Well done, well done, Karen.

[43:05] Speaker 7: Thank you.

[43:05] Speaker 2: All right. Karen Gordy there, oh, that's, w- um, y- you know, and Chuck, I think you're right. We're gonna have to have her, we're gonna have to duplicate what she did, um, 'cause I, you, you know it's coming to Westminster. Um, just a couple other real quick notes before we leave. I think it's interesting, um, Trump is, you know ... I think everybody's heard about the, um, US blockading the Strait of Hormuz, so then now the tankers are all on their way to the, um, Gulf of America. Um, apparently two Navy destroyers went through and didn't get blown up, um, bec- I mean, assuming if you're in a Navy destroyer, you can probably sweep for mines. So Chuck, what do you make of that? I think that was kind of smart of Trump, who says, "Okay, um, you know, we're gonna clobber you economically now." I think he's calling it economic epic or something like that, epic economic war. Uh, I mean, I think that was ...

[43:47] Speaker 2: I, I don't know that anyone expected him to do it, at least not right now, but, um, I think it was a pretty smart move. What do you think?

[43:53] Speaker 4: Well, I'm not sure why they didn't do that in the beginning-

[43:56] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[43:56] Speaker 4: ... to tell you the truth. I mean, wh- wh- why wasn't that action taken, uh, a- as, rather than ... You know, bombing is great, but they, they could have blocked the port, um, early on. I mean, they've s- there is no, there is no Iranian Navy anymore. There are 517 boats that are at the bottom of, of, of, of the sea, um, thanks to, to, uh, the Air Force and other ones. Oh, and so, I mean, I think it's a good idea. Uh, you know, and, but clearing the Gulf of Hormuz, because a lot of other, um, countries' oil also gets out there, Kuwait, um, United Arab Republic, some Saudi, so I think it's great. Yeah. Okay, well, open up, uh, uh, the, uh, Strait of Hormuz, but not for you, Iran.

[44:41] Speaker 4: Um-

[44:41] Speaker 2: Right.

[44:41] Speaker 4: And if, if they can prevent that, you know, then, then they have no money. I mean-

[44:46] Speaker 2: Right.

[44:46] Speaker 4: ... they will be, they will be, em, bankrupt. And so it'll be ... It's hard to build nuclear, uh, plants when you're bankrupt.

[44:53] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[44:53] Speaker 4: Um, so I think it's a good idea. I just wish he'd probably done it earlier, but better late than never.

[44:58] Speaker 2: Uh, no, no, he ... Karen Cantaline says he's had an intri- that it's ... he's had an intricate plan all along. You know, I think he had to, he had to take out the leadership. I think he had to destroy much of their, b- you know, military there. I mean, I think, uh, you know, earlier ... I, I don't think you should've started there, 'cause I think they would've just said no. It would've been a joke to them, right? But once you cripple them militarily, now you're gonna cripple them financially. There isn't, you know ... The leadership is in disarray, I'm sure. Um, the people are getting more and more annoyed. Um, so we'll, we'll see what happens next. Um, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know. I, I, you know, I don't think you could just go in and, uh, have a military operation where you secretly seize a bunch of enriched uranium, um, so I'm not sure what all is involved in that. But I agree with Karen. I think he's had an intricate plan all along. Um, um, that will ...

[45:47] Speaker 2: Uh, Chuck, anything else you wanted to s- say or add before we-

[45:51] Speaker 4: No, nope. I just, I just think it, you know, it's a g- it was a great day for Lakewood and all the, all the single family home people, and everyone else in Lakewood. And I think it's a great, uh ... As, as awful as sitting through waiting for three hours and everything else, uh, to have that one in which Randy and John Eastman were authorized by a rabid crowd of 2,000 people to go forward. And while the establishment represented by, um, Kathleen Chandler, uh, get totally schmucked, it's all, it's all good. It's all good.

[46:24] Speaker 2: (laughs) Well, and then on Wednesday, we're gonna have Sue Moore with Liberty Scorecard on. There was this-

[46:30] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.

[46:30] Speaker 2: ... incredible-

[46:31] Speaker 4: Yeah, baby.

[46:31] Speaker 2: ... display where Barb Kirkmeyer, Senator Barb Kirkmeyer, who went through ... She's gonna be ... She's a candidate, she's the establishment candidate for governor. She was trying to pretend like, "Oh, I have no idea who the Liberty Scorecard is. I think ..." But then she libeled them, right? Saying, "Oh, it's a scam run by a bunch of consultants," annoying the heck out of Sue Moore (laughs) 'cause she's like, "We're not making any money doing this." So Sue Moore is gonna come on and, and set the record straight here, and, uh, I think that kind of reveals something about Barb Kirkmeyer, that she was just willing to just tell so many just straight-out lies, um-

[47:04] Speaker 4: Oh, you know, th- Barb Kirkmeyer has, has, has a reputation for being very, um, efficacious in, in talking on radio and if you're a voter or something, and just awful to her staff, you know. If you, if, if you're w- and, and all of a sudden, that mask came down, uh, on, on the Jeff and Bill show, when she, when she said, go after, uh

[47:29] Speaker 2: Liberty Scorecard. (laughs)

[47:30] Speaker 4: Liberty Scorecard. That, that, that nice veneer came off, and the vicious underneath g- got exposed.

[47:36] Speaker 2: Exactly, so we'll be talking about that. But that'll wrap it up for us today. Want to thank Ray, and, and Karen, and everybody on Zoom, um, and the great guys at BBS, and we will see everybody on Wednesday.

[47:47] Speaker 4: Take care, everyone.