Scott Benson (00:00) Good afternoon. Welcome to building the athlete. I'm Scott Benson, Hall of Fame athlete, Hall of Fame coach and sports performance expert. On today's show, Cooper Bowman of the Oakland Athletics. We're gonna get into it. We're gonna talk about a lot of things, baseball and a lot of things, training. bensonsportstraining.com. That's my company. That's where you need to go. bensonsportstraining.com. Check it out. We have a full array of products online products online training and coaching for multiple different sports and lots of different programs I've had the pleasure in my Several decades in this business of training over 400 professional and NCAA athletes The whole purpose of this show is to educate parents athletes and coaches And to help you get through all the noise, there's just so much information out there these days. And it's really hard to know what your athlete or you as an athlete should be doing to maximize your potential for greatness. So stay tuned for Cooper Bowman. We're going to get to that in a minute. First, I'm going to take a question from a listener. She writes in as a mother, my daughter is a very successful track athlete. She's never been in a weight room. We've been told that she should be lifting weights. Our fear is that she would gain weight that would negatively affect her track career. I get this question a lot. And the first thing I say, somewhat jokingly, is I've got hundreds of high school boys that I work with that would do anything to put on weight. They're in the weight room, they're working hard, and they don't seem to be able to gain much weight or it's difficult to gain a lot of weight. And the biggest thing I tell these athletes is gaining weight is done in the kitchen, not in the weight room. And for a track athlete to be lifting weights, I highly recommend that she get in there and get into a strong program that is written for a track athlete. So explosive movement. I love Olympic lifts. I love heavy squats and deadlifts for sprinters and jumpers. I'm not going to hurt yourself, not going to gain weight in the weight room, lifting the right way for a track athlete. We stay out of hypertrophy phases, meaning high volume, which is what you need to do to gain muscle. you know, again, unless you're eating so many additional calories, you don't really need to worry about weight gain from lifting. So I would absolutely get your daughter in the weight room, get her with a qualified sports performance professional and I think you'll see great results from that. All right coming up on the show we've got Cooper Bowman of the Oakland Athletics. Cooper was formerly an American Legion Player of the Year in his home state. Originally committed to Hawaii and then decommitted and went to Iowa Western Junior College in Council Bluffs, Iowa. Played in the JuCo World Series. and then signed to play at the University of Louisville. Played for Louisville for two seasons and had a great career there where he was all ACC and then went on to be drafted in the fourth round by the New York Yankees. Cooper now, like I said, he started out this year with the Cincinnati Reds and then was traded to Oakland. And we're going to talk to Cooper about all things baseball, all things preparation. development, mindset, everything that goes with the things that we talk about. So stay tuned. Cooper Bowman coming up. Cooper Bowman, excited to talk to him. Scott Benson (03:30) All right, welcome to building the athlete. Today's guest is Cooper Bowman of the Oakland A's. Cooper was a phenomenal high school athlete. He was American Legion baseball player of the year in his home state and was also an all state basketball player. Went on to play college baseball first at Iowa Western Junior College in Council Bluffs, Iowa, where they played in ⁓ a college world. Cooper Bowman (03:45) you Scott Benson (03:56) Juco World Series and then moved on to Louisville where he played there and was an all ACC second baseman drafted by the New York Yankees in the fourth round. Cooper started this year with the Cincinnati Reds and finished with the Oakland A's. So Cooper, welcome to the show. Glad to have you and ⁓ would like you to go over anything I missed as an introduction. Cooper Bowman (04:21) Well, thanks for having me. I think this is a really cool idea. You kind of nailed it on the head. Grew up in Rapid City, born in Lee Deadwood, a little smaller town even before that. You know, I committed to university of Hawaii originally out of high school and, and, ⁓ whole staff left. And I think my first taste of, of the college business was that trying to get out of that little predicament and, was, was semi-forced to go Juco, but it ended up honestly being the best thing that could have happened. and yeah, from there you had it, ⁓ over to Louisville for a year, drafted to the Yankees year and a half spent over there, got traded over the A's at the end of 22. And then, you know, I'm sure we'll get into it, but then the business side of baseball kicked in and I got a shot with the Reds and then ended up ultimately coming back to the A's. Scott Benson (05:04) Okay, awesome. Well, welcome to the show. I appreciate you taking the time. So before we get into training and baseball and development and all those fun things, I gotta ask you, what'd think of the World Series? Cooper Bowman (05:15) You know, we were actually talking about it today and it's hard to say that that wasn't the best seven game series of all time. I mean, from the big hits to the big defensive plays to starters pitching on zero days rest, I mean, it was things I've never seen before. It was very entertaining. Scott Benson (05:31) Yeah. Yeah, I was going to ask you, do you think that was the best World Series ever? Cooper Bowman (05:36) From my memory bank, mean, it is, you know, anything that goes seven games, but to throw an 18 inning game in there, they really played eight games. To have a starter throw, a complete game, eight inning game, and then come in and close game seven, I mean, you got the best player of all time playing. I mean, it's hard to beat, I think. Scott Benson (05:55) ⁓ Do you think Kiki catches that ball in left field? Cooper Bowman (05:59) According to his interviews, he says yes. What? He does. He does. Apparently he's the little glue of that team. You know, I would say no. Off the bat, I thought it was dropping. Talk about drama, first of all. Have a center fielder who just got subbed into the game. Young kid, he's like 24 years old and he has to go make a jumping catch over his teammate to save the season. I mean, it really doesn't get more dramatic than that. But no, to answer your question, I didn't think he was catching it. Scott Benson (06:02) He says a lot of things in his interviews. Right. Yeah, and that's just the baseball, the way the baseball gods work is, is it Pahes or the center fielder? You know, he had been sat because he couldn't hit anything throughout the series and then gets back in and gets that opportunity and he saves, I mean, he saves the game, he saves the World Series. So that was awesome. I haven't seen anything like that before. It was... It was fun to watch it knowing you were watching something special and capped off by a home run from a Louisville alumni. So that's gotta be pretty cool. That probably had you cheering a little bit. Cooper Bowman (06:58) Yeah. You know, I can't say I was rooting for the Dodgers, it was pretty cool to see him do that. Yeah. Scott Benson (07:06) Yeah, because there's a few Louisville guys on that team, Cooper Bowman (07:09) Yeah, mostly catchers even the backup catchers a little guy and obviously Will Smith is, know, burning all star. But it's pretty cool. Like seeing guys that actually didn't share the locker room with, with Will Smith, but just knowing that, you know, I followed kind of the same path that he went down and, and seeing him do stuff like that is pretty cool. Scott Benson (07:28) Yeah, yeah. Well, great series. So one baseball question I want to ask you, which I haven't watched a lot of baseball this summer, but I did watch the playoffs and I watched the World Series. When did the split finger come back? Cooper Bowman (07:43) Recently, I really think the last two, three years. and honestly, I think a lot of it came from Otani. mean, in Japan, you know, we have a lot of Japan guys throughout our Oregon, every Oregon, and they all throw it. And so I think when you have a guy come in, who's the best of the best, and that's kind of his pitch, I think other people are like, Hmm, that's maybe something I should look into. And you know, it's, it's actually crazy you say that because maybe Wednesday at the field, we were talking about the split finger and it's just, we think that's the new pitch. We think that's gonna be the brand of baseball for the next three or four years, kinda how baseball just got out of the ride fastball. It was a big thing for four or five years. We think the split finger is gonna be a similar concept. Scott Benson (08:24) I just I mean, it seemed like all these guys are throwing a 90 mile an hour split finger and being able to locate it, which is it's just amazing. You know, let's talk about that, you know, to where I saw some of the pitchers. I don't remember specifically who they were, but it's almost it's almost like they're using a 98 or 99 mile an hour fastball as a change up. Like they're so good with their other pitches that Cooper Bowman (08:51) you Scott Benson (08:52) They just sneak in a fastball once in a while instead of a change up. Is that kind of what you're seeing? Cooper Bowman (08:55) I think you're exactly right. I really am. you know, obviously as good as pitchers have gotten, hitters have improved equally. And I think the fastball, you know, you can sneak it by people, but if you throw six in a row, even if they're a hundred, you know, these are professional hitters. They're going to find a way to hit it. But yeah, I think you're right. Like it's more of a secondary pitch these days, but it's 98 to a hundred. So pretty unfair if you ask a hitter from our perspective. But yeah, this off speed stuff, man, it's the new way of a baseball. It's very challenging. Scott Benson (09:25) Okay. What, does anybody throw a straight fastball anymore? Cooper Bowman (09:29) No way, no way. either, you know, the baseball term is ride where it's perceived rising at you. Obviously the physics of it, it's not, but that's the way the eye sees it. And you, of course you have the two seams and the sinkers and the cut fast balls and it's pretty rare to find a straight one these days. Scott Benson (09:47) So what's your approach if you're going up there and you're facing a guy that's got, you know, he's throwing 98 to 100 with, you know, 10 inches of movement on it. Cooper Bowman (09:56) You know, that's where it's hard for us. Every day we try to figure out the approaches for these guys and it's very dependent. You sometimes you gotta go up there and you gotta guess pitches. Some of these guys are just so good and they make the stuff move so much and they make it look so similar to their other pitches that you have to almost guess pitches and then still try to square it up. But yeah, when these guys are throwing 100, the old saying is stay on the fastball, but how can you? These sliders are moving 18 inches. You know, the plate's only what 14 to 16, I think. So it's moving more than the actual plate itself. uh, you know, it's hard to just stick to one approach, but man, these guys are just getting good. Scott Benson (10:36) Yeah. Well, number one, as a professional baseball player, you should probably know how wide the plate is. That'd be good information to have. You made a comment, you know, their pitches are all similar. So, you know, when I played 100 years ago, obviously, you know, off speed, you were looking for laces. And to me, it seems like nowadays that the sliders are so tight and the way that they're throwing. Cooper Bowman (10:41) Yeah. Scott Benson (10:59) Can you pick up on things like that anymore? Talk to me about that. Cooper Bowman (11:03) Yeah, you know the good ones. I would say no, because the pitchers whole plan is they want to make all their pitches look the same when it comes out of their hand. Because you know we have less than half a second to make a decision if we want to swing and then actually square it up. So their whole goal is those those first 30 feet that the ball is moving. They want their slider fastball change up whatever to come out the same. It's called tunneling. And yeah, I mean. You'll, you'll catch guys with maybe like a bigger curve ball and it has to pop out of their hand and you can kind of catch some breaks on guys like that. But for the most part, it's, ⁓ a lot of guys talk about color. So on a fast ball, the ball spins white at you because it's spinning so fast that you can't see the laces and the sliders and the changeups spin a little slower. There are PAMs a little less, so you can kind of see some red in there. But yeah, I I've heard guys talk about hand positioning, know, sliders, fast balls, changeups, but for the most part, you just got to try to see it early. It's quite the challenge. Scott Benson (12:00) Yeah, is it the hardest thing to do in sports? Cooper Bowman (12:02) I may be biased, but I think so. Scott Benson (12:04) I'd agree with you. Okay, so who's the best pitcher you've ever faced? Who's somebody you went up against and just said, wow, I hope I get lucky here. Cooper Bowman (12:13) Yeah, I have a funny story about it. ⁓ Max Scherzer first ballot hall of Famer, obviously in 2024, he's rehabbing down in AAA and I get the pleasure of facing him, of course. And so he, ⁓ he strikes me out the first at bat and he gets through the lineup, 12 retired in a row, maybe 13. I come back up and, ⁓ I get down O2 right away because I mean, first of all, he's got the different colored eyes. So it's intimidating as heck. You would have thought it was. Scott Benson (12:37) Hahaha Cooper Bowman (12:39) You know, he pitched game seven of the world series last week. You would have thought it was the same deal. It was very impressive how into it and how focused and intense he was for just a rehab outing. so anyways, I get down two. and the, new pitch clock is kind of a thing at this time in 2024. So the pitch clock is about to hit zero catcher throws up his arms and starts running out there because he can take a timeout. Pitch clock won't run out because if it does, I get a ball. ⁓ Scherzer waves him back. He's yelling at him. He's like, no, stay there. Stay like, I'm fine. So I'm in the box like, dang it. This guy doesn't even care if it's one, two, like he doesn't, he doesn't care at all. He's going to do the same thing and get me out. And believe it or not, next pitch slider looks like a fastball the whole way and don't get, gets this far off the plate and I swing a miss and I'm out. I'm just like, man, this guy just, he's so confident. He knows he's so good. And he has so many ways of getting. all of us out that he doesn't even care if it's 021222 doesn't even matter to him. Scott Benson (13:35) And so how many innings did he pitch? Cooper Bowman (13:37) He threw four perfect and it was his last rehab outing before going back up to the big leagues. he, the other half of that story is the last batter he faced, he intentionally walked him like before the guy even gets in the box, he throws up four, gets him on first base and we're all in the dugout. Like, why would you do that? You're perfect through four. No one's gotten on base. We later realized that he just wanted to work out of the stretch a little bit. so he threw one hitter out of the stretch, struck him out and That doesn't seem to make sense. Scott Benson (14:03) Wow, wow, that's impressive. He definitely, definitely competes at a different intensity level. You could just see it. you know, I'm guessing that kid, you know, if he's playing against his kids in something, he's taking them to the cleaners. And that's just, you know, it's a mindset. You know, and I've had, talked to lot of athletes about that. And, you know, is that something? Cooper Bowman (14:15) That's broke. Scott Benson (14:24) Once you got to, let's say, the Division 1 level, is that a pretty constant thing with most of the players you've played with? You know, just that mental strength and that confidence? Cooper Bowman (14:34) I actually wouldn't say it's as common as a lot of people would think. I think a lot of guys get there truthfully from just overwhelming talent. But then I think the next jump to the pro level is where that starts to play a bit more of a factor, especially in baseball. mean, it's 162 games for those guys in the big leagues. And if you don't have something wrong with you in your head, it's hard to lock in and be that intense. that often. But yeah, for the D1 level, for sure, there are definitely guys like that. And I think I was somewhat like that. And I think that's the reason I got there. But no, you see guys who are just simply better than everyone else. And a lot of times they figure it out later in their career and make the jump. And I've also seen guys where they don't have that switch in their head and they kind of get stuck at that level. Scott Benson (15:22) What, yeah, that's interesting. So talk a little bit about. What do you see in just the difference, let's just say between A ball, double A, triple A, bigs, what is the biggest difference once you make those jumps? Cooper Bowman (15:37) That's a question a lot of guys ask actually. And I think it's important that it's known that it really isn't the talent. I would argue the talent in low A, A is arguably just as good as triple A. Obviously I haven't been to the big leagues yet, so I can't say. But the difference is really little things. It's the actual game, not the size, speed, strength. Can a pitcher get ahead early? Can a hitter learn how to? take a slider off the plate. If you have a low A prospect and a guy on the verge of making it to the big leagues, go hit BP. You may not notice much of a difference, but if you watch him take a hundred at bats, you'll be like, okay, I can see you. You know, the AAA guy's more disciplined. He has a plan. He has an approach. I think it's more in the head at that level than really physically. And I think again, that's one thing that can separate guys. it'll. propel guys forward and it'll really hold them back. Scott Benson (16:31) So you say once you get to the professional level, it's the game. not so much the athleticism, the size, speed and strength, but are you getting there without that? Cooper Bowman (16:41) Oh, certainly not. No, no, no. That's I should have probably said that the every player here has side speeds, size, speed and strength. You know, it's not it's not up for grabs. It's it's not something you you can get by without. No, no, no. It's it's probably the most important thing. But at some point when you look around, everyone has it. And it's like, yeah, so it's like, well, how do I separate myself before I could just be stronger, faster, jump higher? Scott Benson (17:02) Everybody's good. Cooper Bowman (17:09) in a game like baseball, just doesn't really work out that way. But no, you're definitely not getting there without it. Scott Benson (17:14) Okay. All right. Well, let's get into how you get that. That's really what the bulk of our conversation is going to be. I wanna start... Actually, I wanna ask you one more question before we get into it. I introduced you as obviously a baseball player, but then I also mentioned that you were an all-state basketball player as well. So... I love the the multi-sport debate and I might be one of the in the minority debating you don't have to be a multi-sport athlete and let me explain that before I have you comment. So I hear you know guys like Nick Saban and Urban Meyer you know talking about how you got to be a multi-sport athlete if you want to make it to the college level and I just I can't get on board with those guys saying that because They're dealing with the genetic one percenters, the guys that are they're so talented, so big, so strong, so fast that in high school they could just go out, you know, if they're a football player, they could go out for basketball and just lock somebody down because of physicality or, you know, go play baseball or go run track and not have to put a lot of time into it to be a star. And that's not real world. That's not. That's not the 99 % that have to work hard to excel at anything. so I'm not a huge fan of that. I think if you're not really looking to play college athletics, that part of it's not important to you, then yeah, go play everything, have a great time, contribute to your team. But when we're talking about kids that are saying, look, I wanna go play college baseball, I wanna go play college basketball, whatever it may be, coaches are demanding. They want touches on those kids all year round. And so what I see happen is, you know, I've got kids that come in and they've got basketball open gym in the morning. They got a baseball game later in the day, and then they've got football seven on seven that night, and they're in the gym trying to train. And they end up being very mediocre at everything because they're tired all the time and they're just so spread out they can never excel. What is your take on that? Cooper Bowman (19:14) You know, I'm actually more probably on the play multiple sports side, but I do think you make a great point. Like I think when the Sabins of the world are saying those things, like you're right. Like he's only speaking with, with guys who are physically good enough to go to a school like that and play at that level. so that is a good point. ⁓ I'd have to agree that, you know, I've, I've seen it plenty of times who, you know, just growing up in a smaller down, like rapid where guys want to go play. Perfetto or college baseball. college basketball, whatever it is, but they're playing three sports and the skill level just never really got there for them. So no, I think you make a great point. For me personally, I thought doing multiple was great. But you know, I also, I would argue I got more reps in than most kids at that age. So if you're gonna do both or three, four, whatever it is, you're gonna have to. drop a lot of other things. You're not gonna be able to go to the parties and you're not gonna be able to do all those extra things. That's your life now. So I do think you make a good point. Scott Benson (20:14) Well, and I also, yeah, and think, you know, the way, the problem is, is when these kids get so spread out, athletic development gets put on the back burner. That's the thing that goes, they're tired, they don't have time for it. And I'm sorry, but with the new NCAA regs and, you know, NIL, as a 17 or 18 year old, you are competing against 23 year olds for that job. And if you think you're going to get to that level and you're going to skip the gym, it's not going to happen anymore. It's a much different world. And so I should have prefaced by by saying, you know, I think recruiting is forever changed. I don't have a problem. know, middle school freshmen, sophomore, you can be checking everything out and seeing what you like. But, you know, once you get to that, you know, sometimes sophomore, but junior, senior year. you kind of know where you're headed. And I always think it's awesome for kids to play one team sport and one individual sport. So you get the aspect of both of those and you learn how to play with the team, but you also learn how to compete on your own when you don't have a team to fall back on. I, you know, and of course, I'm not saying you can only play one sport. I think in... You know, every athlete is different and they have different ways that it's going to work for them. Just wanted to get your opinion on it. I know it continues to be in the media where they're preaching that you have to be a multi-sport athlete. And I guess like everything else, I just ask why. How is that going to benefit you? Cooper Bowman (21:46) I think that's a great point, especially with the new college rules. mean, you got guys who are on their sixth year of eligibility plan and an 18 year old can't come into a university and look like an 18 year old anymore. There's just no spots for that. You know, they'd rather go get a 20 year old from a junior college or something. So yeah, I mean, I agree if playing multiple sports is gonna set you back physically or Even skillfully, like if you go into a baseball, university of Louisville as a freshman and you know, your skill level isn't a few years advanced, it's going to be tough for you. So, so I do think all these rules are probably going to end up trickling down and affecting high school sports as well. Scott Benson (22:26) Yeah, well now you won't even go to the University of Louisville with because. Right now, division ones and a lot of division twos, they're not even looking high school anymore. They're going to the portal. If you're a high school athlete and you cannot contribute immediately, you better start looking JuCo. You better start looking NAIA. And then you can always enter the portal later on. But what I can tell you with absolute certainty is if you're not in the gym, you're not getting stronger and faster, you've got no chance. Because you're competing against men and women, growing men and women. The other thing you said, you know, like walking into a Louisville situation, in the SEC last year, the average freshman was, I believe, 6'3", 210 pounds. That's the average freshman. So you better be a dude walking into those programs or you're not even going to get considered for it. yeah. Cooper Bowman (22:56) Yeah. Absolutely. Scott Benson (23:21) So let's talk a little bit about you personally. I'd like to start with your story as a Juco baseball player at Iowa Western and in 2020, COVID hits and shortens your season. So let's just kind of walk through that and talk about, you know, where you were at, what was going through your head and the changes that you made with your training. Cooper Bowman (23:43) Yeah, you know, you obviously know this, but those listening don't. When I was at Juco, I basically went to a baseball academy class a couple of times a week, but the priority was baseball, lifting, get big, get strong. So I probably threw on 30 to 35 pounds in my year and a half to two years there. So it's a very, I wouldn't say it's like the smartest type. of lifting or training, but it's very intense. It's very serious. So that was a rude awakening for 170 pound kid coming in who, you know, we've talked about it. I wish he could go back and do a little more in high school. We did a lot, but I don't think I was fully bought in. So yeah, so COVID happens, you know, I'm 210 pounds and I'm big and strong. I can move a lot of weight, but the only thing I could think of, and this was our first conversation. I just can't move, you know, and in a sport like baseball, if you're not nimble, if you can't rotate, if you have bad hips, whatever it is, you know, it's obviously going to come bite you in the butt. And anyone who knows me well has heard this before. I truly think the summer of COVID changed my entire career. I think I could have gone to Louisville, had a fine year, had a fine career, whatever, get picked up, you know, give it a shot. But I think The way that we transitioned my just brute strength into athleticism, speed, jumping, it changed my whole career. I was always a fast kid, but up until that year, or after that year, I should say, speed became my identity in baseball. And it got me drafted higher. It got me to move up levels. I mean, truthfully, it put money in my pocket. You know, I think there's a lot of good ways to get big and strong and do all these things. But, um, at a certain point in time, when, you get older, you have to be able to. Confine it down to your sport. How do you need to move? You know, I don't need to look like a football player and a football player doesn't need to look like me. I think it's very different. So yeah, that summer, it changed my life really. Scott Benson (25:46) So I'm trying to, I'm pretty old, my memory is not great. So I'm thinking back, season shut down, you got back to town. I remember you calling me and I remember you saying, just, I don't feel like I felt in high school. I don't feel as explosive as I felt in high school. And if I remember correctly, you were about 208, 210 pounds. And I think one of the first things I said to you was, we're going to lose weight. We're not going to lose strength, but we're going to spend a lot of time out at the track. And I'm going to treat you like a track athlete. And is that kind of how you remember it? Cooper Bowman (26:25) I think that's exactly how it went, yeah. Scott Benson (26:27) So I remember everything was closed. So I remember lifting in my basement. That's where we did our lifting sessions. But tell me your recollection of what we did in those track workouts and those speed workouts. Cooper Bowman (26:33) Yeah. You know, I think a huge part of it was just learning how to run. I'd actually, you know, backtrack to what we were talking about earlier. hitting a baseball is one of the hardest things to do in sports. I think running correctly is right up there. I mean, anyone can run, but when you look at these, you know, track athletes, these Olympians, these college guys, like not everyone can move like that. It's, it's, it's a learned skill for sure. but you'd be amazed at how much it cleans up and and how much faster you can get and how the risk of injury will go down. So for sure, we got after it intensity wise, but I really, if I remember correctly, I think majority of it was cleaning up how the body moves. And now once you clean it up a little, I noticed it probably that second half of that summer, you just exponentially go. You'll, mean, the power, the speed, the strength. Once you kind of figure out really what you're doing, it flies. Scott Benson (27:32) Yeah, yeah. And I do kind of remember we did a lot of, a lot of drills, a lot of, a lot of tech where we were, you know, working about, working through angles and, and all of that with acceleration. did a lot of wicket runs. Um, and then we just got you out on the track and got you running. And you know, it, it, uh, I always, it's funny. I, when I work with young athletes, You know, I'll ask him, well, who taught you how to hit a baseball? And, my dad did. Okay, well, who taught you how to shoot basketball? my coach did, you know, and I'll go through that and then I'll ask him, well, who taught you how to run? And I'll get an absolute blank stare. And then, you know, one of them will inevitably speak for the group and say, I taught myself. And, you know, one of the most important things that we do in any sport Cooper Bowman (28:09) Yep. Scott Benson (28:23) And the thing that separates athletes at every level is self-taught. So I see moms and dads taking kids to every sport camp in the world, dropping $10,000 a summer for a kid that can't move. And it just, it really doesn't make any sense. But I think we label kids too early that, you know, fast or not fast. So I'm gonna get your opinion on that, but we're gonna take a quick break. So we'll be right back. All right, we're back with building the athlete with Cooper Bowman of the Oakland Athletics. We are talking speed. We are talking the COVID summer when Cooper made a huge change in his training methodology and kind of decided he wanted to be faster, wanted to be more explosive talking about that summer and how we trained. So from what I was saying, Cooper, as far as, you know, development of speed. Talk a little bit more about number one, you know, at 20 years old or however you, you know, how hard was it to learn, to relearn how to run the right way? Cooper Bowman (29:33) surprisingly difficult. You know, anyone can just go out there and run and think, well, I'm fast. I beat most kids. I, know, top of the line, whatever, and everything's fine. And I was the same way. But when you start running with, with trained runners who really know what they're doing, it really doesn't matter how strong or explosive you are. You can't really keep up. And it took me a couple of weeks to, be able to keep up with, I mean, Hyde obviously we were training with him every day. And It's such a difference maker. And I think at first I was a little skeptical, truthfully, because I didn't really think the perfect running was maybe necessary for baseball. Boy, was I wrong though, because it plays everywhere. It plays to your athleticism. It plays to keeping your body healthy and lower risk of injury. Obviously it plays to speed. It's, again, like I said, I think it's a skill that's one of the hardest to learn in all of sports. Scott Benson (30:26) Were you, prior to making that change, you a huge base stealing threat? Cooper Bowman (30:32) I would say I was a base stealer. I wouldn't really call it a threat. You know, I could move. I've always been able to move a little, but after that summer going into Louisville, it really became more of an identity, more of a in the Skyrim report. You know, you can tell as soon as I get on, this guy's picking over, know, sidestepping and it didn't even really help me in some circumstances, but it would help my teammates because this guy on the mountains thinking about me, thinking about You know, maybe I'll run to third, maybe I'll run to second, whatever it is. And then he grooves a heater, they rip a double and they start scoring runs. So no, I wouldn't say it was, it was a massive part of my game, but for last five years, it's been the main part of my game. It's the reason I'm still playing. Scott Benson (31:12) That's good. When you came back to me during COVID, You were very, very strong. were. I don't remember. I know you were squatting 500 pounds. You were deadlifting 500 pounds. I can't remember exactly, you know, within my program, we do a lot of Olympic lifts. I don't remember if that's something we had to kind of learn and progress. But talk a little bit about because I always say that I train powerlifting track athletes. I like heavy lifting. I'll argue about that all day long with these guys that want to talk about their functional strength and you know, it just the stronger you are, the more force you can produce the faster, more explosive you're going to be. So tell me how that's been a part of your training as far as you know, through college, heavy in the weight room, into the professional know, ranks, how do you move weight now compared to how you did, you know, five years ago? And then we'll briefly talk again about Olympic lifts as well. Cooper Bowman (32:18) ⁓ huge part of my training every year still, and everyone around me say same idea. I mean, you gotta lift heavy. it's, just the easiest way to, to learn how to produce force. think now, can I still squat 500 pounds? Probably not. you know, am I still getting after it? And, know, obviously once you get to the pro level, it's a little more, ⁓ constricted, you know, they're a little more concerned about something happening, but that when you're younger. If you don't lift heavy in high school, you're going to have a rude awakening when you go to college. I really believe that. it's, it's wildly important. I've never met an athlete that, that doesn't do it. ⁓ and then the Olympic lifts, you know, I'm, I'm a, first of all, I'm a huge fan of them. I think it's the best way to get explosive. used to do, Olympic lifts with plyos and yeah, I wish I had the exact numbers. There's no way I wasn't jumping 10 inches higher after the COVID summer than I was at the start. And that translates directly to the box. It translates to the field, to the basketball court, all those things. So yeah, mean, if you're not doing these things before college, I can only really say good luck because it's gonna be hard for you. Scott Benson (33:20) Yeah, and I think, you know, what a lot of people don't realize is, and I can speak to the Division One level and so can you, you're going to spend as much time in the weight room as you are on the field, on the track for me. I've seen a lot of people who, based off of just natural freakish talent, make it to the Division One level. with never going into a weight room or starting and stopping and never getting serious about it, they get to the college level and their body can't adapt. Their body just cannot handle being in the weight room three or four days a week. And it ends up ending their career. Is that something you saw? Cooper Bowman (34:01) Yeah, I really have. saw it the Juco level and the D1 level. And I think we touched on it a little earlier where, you know, sometimes in baseball specifically, there's as you get older, the separators are more between the years than your body. But yeah, if that's not something that you hit before you get to college and adapt your body to, yeah, I think it'll wreck you. I think mentally it's hard. Physically, of course, it's hard. I think physically it can be compromising if you don't have that good base because you're going into this university with 21, 22, 23 year olds who have done it for four years. So it's, I would say it's the most important thing a high school athlete can do. Scott Benson (34:37) You made a point a minute ago, you talked about, we were talking about Olympic lifts and plyometrics and how your vertical jump went up so much. And this is a good one with baseball and I train, I train a lot of baseball players and doing plyos and doing Olympics. And I've heard high level strength coaches argue this point that Why am I jumping over hurdles as a baseball player? Why am I doing Olympic lifts as a baseball player? How is that going to translate? And what people don't understand is triple extension explosive high velocity movement is going to translate into into any way that your body moves. And I think that's such a big misnomer. in baseball that, know, if you give me a guy with a 40 inch vertical jump, I can pretty well guarantee you he's going to have the highest exit VLO on the team. And so you have to understand that, you know, extending through the ankle, through the knee, through the hip is no different than getting the hips all the way through a swing. And that power is that last bit of hip extension. And that's what's taught. Cooper Bowman (35:26) Okay, guys. Scott Benson (35:47) in plyometrics and Olympic lifts. And that's why they translate so well to baseball. Give me your take on that. Cooper Bowman (35:54) I think you hit it right on the head. ⁓ I mean, I hope that there's guys from your gym listening to this later on because I think, and you and I have discussed this a lot. I think when I got drafted by New York and I went in and the first month was all training, building foundations for a lot of guys, I was at such an advantage because I already had this biometric background, this heavy lifting experience and all these different things. where I was just steps ahead of guys from a physical standpoint, right when I walked in. And so, you know, I don't know many gyms or many places, especially for high school kids that are doing those things. But if I didn't do them, you know, I would have been behind the eight ball. I almost can't stress enough how important I really think it is. You know, I can't speak for every sport, but I would, I would guess that it translates to every sport. You know, if you, with the triple extension that you were, that you were speaking of, if you can do that just forcefully and explosively, I would imagine that that translates to any, any sort of movement, any sort of body movement, whether it's rotational, you know, baseball's a little, you got a little lateral quickness left and right, similar to basketball. You know, to me, it, it is in every sport. Scott Benson (37:03) I want to ask you, you told me a story one time and I'm going to mess this up. So, you know, for our listening audience, you know, we're broadcasting in New York City. They're either going to really like you because you got drafted by the Yankees or they've already turned it off because you got traded by the Yankees. But for those that are still listening, you told me a story one time about When you got down to camp in Florida and the first day of camp, they had you doing all the speed drills that we were doing those previous summers. Tell me about that. Cooper Bowman (37:40) It was, it was hilarious. First of all, it was the very basic stuff that we learned at your gym when we're in middle school, you know, it was wall marches, was dribbles. It was, um, you know, the different types of skips and I didn't realize how lucky I was to get that, you know, beforehand experience until that day when I was like, man, I got guys here who they're, signed for a lot of money, but they don't Know what they're doing. Like they don't know what this is. Like one advantage for me, having six years of this type of experience. So. And you know, it's the Yankees, they're going to do everything better than everybody else. They're going to hire the best people. They're going to have the best training. And so was pretty eyeopening for me to, to almost do the exact same workouts that I've been doing right when I get to the top of the top, you know, the cream of the crop is as they say there. ⁓ from a training standpoint, not a whole lot changed for me, which, which I thought was really just more of a compliment towards you and Hunter and drew and everyone who got Benson doing what they do. it's, just a little hidden nugget in South Dakota that more people should be aware of because to me, I got to go to the best, best team that develops kids in my sport. And the very first thing we did was things I've done since I was 14. So it was very cool. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Scott Benson (38:55) And it got you noticed right away. Because if I remember correctly, I the strength and conditioning guys talked to you. Cooper Bowman (39:02) Yeah. And, and, know, they asked about you and I believe they got in touch with you that winter. cause I was coming back home to train and it, you know, they were impressed from almost more of a knowledge standpoint, just not that I know the science behind all of it and all of that, but just the fact that I had been exposed to it for so long. And, you know, I've said it before and people have laughed, but I really don't think I'm still playing if it's not for all those years of experience, because I was just. ahead of so many guys in so many ways and it's just become a complete part of my game. Yeah, truly lucky. Scott Benson (39:35) Yeah, and just to be clear here, we're not talking about just the new guys for the Yankees. It was everybody. And they were, we're not going to name names, but struggling with drills that we consider fairly simple. Cooper Bowman (39:41) Everybody. Basic level stuff, you know, I spent a lot of time in the gym still when I'm home and you know, see middle school basketball teams doing them and it's not these kids fault that I was with that they had never learned it. It was just very eye opening to me that I was like, wow, that kind of training is not everywhere. But if these guys are doing it, that's probably the right thing to do. Scott Benson (40:09) Yeah. And, you know, it just goes back to my point. Who taught you how to run? Guys either are fast or they're not fast. They get labeled that way and they don't ever work on it. And speed training is one of the most underutilized modalities in all of sports performance. You know, you get the football teams that they run some sprints after practice and that's not speed training. That's conditioning. You know, is speed training is about quality. It is about teaching. And, you know, it's it's one of the reasons that we've been able to launch a national online coaching program because there is just not a lot of people out there pushing the speed training side of it. And it is it is a game changer. And you hear the line all the time. Speed kills. We heard the line today from you. Speed pays. Cooper Bowman (40:34) Mm. Scott Benson (41:00) Okay, speed pays, speed got you paid more money in the draft. And that was the other thing I was gonna say is, you you went through all that training and you go to the MLB combine and you run the second fastest, was it a 30 yard or 60 yard dash? Cooper Bowman (41:01) Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, show me a scout that doesn't love that, you know, and I'm not trying to even to mountain horn, but if I'm a scout, you know, speed, speed kills, speed plays at every position, every sport. Like it's, it's a very valuable tool. and I would argue the kids that are already in college or, or hoping to play in college, if you don't think that the little technical, differences in running really matters. Scott Benson (41:19) Right. Cooper Bowman (41:39) I really think you should reconsider because you can have two guys who are equally as fast. And if you do six months of correct training, learning how to move correctly and you don't even necessarily get more powerful yourself, I would guarantee you're faster than the other kid. It plays such a big role in my sport specifically. If I'm stealing a base, the margin for error is quarter of a second. You're gonna be... If you can clean up one or two steps in those 90 feet, you're going to be safe 90 % more of the time, whatever it is. Scott Benson (42:08) Well, I've had the conversation with you at the level that you're playing at. You know the catcher's pop time. You know whether it's a guy you can steal a base on or not because you have metrics on everything. And when we talk about speed training, we're talking about really teaching how to accelerate over 10 yards. Those first three, four, five steps. how to get yourself in the right position to maximize your acceleration mechanics. And so now we're talking about, you know, we're taking off hundreds of a second, but that's the difference between, you know, maybe 10 additional stolen bases a year. And I think that's very, very important. Not done with this subject yet, but let's take another quick break. We will be right back. Cooper Bowman (42:36) you you you Scott Benson (42:53) All right, we're back with building the athlete, Cooper Bowman of the Oakland Athletics. Still talking speed. You know, one point that I wanted to make is, Cooper, you had made the comment that you could always move a little bit. were, you know, you weren't slow, but we're talking refining and becoming as efficient as possible in our movement. So. You know, let's just say, and I'm guessing these numbers. I don't know this, but I bet I'm fairly close. You were probably, you know, prior to getting into speed training, you were probably like a six, seven, six, eight, 60 yard dash guy. Is that close? Cooper Bowman (43:28) ⁓ Yeah, I think you're pretty much spot on actually. Scott Benson (43:32) Yeah, and then when I, I'm willing to bet when you went to the MLB combine, you ran a 30 there, but I bet you would have ran in that 6-3, 6-4 neighborhood. And so we're talking, you know, three tenths, four tenths, which that's a lot of time over that, those distances. But from a college coach's perspective, the Cooper Bowman (43:42) Yes. Scott Benson (43:56) athlete that's 6'8 and the athlete that's 6'4, it is a world of difference from a recruiting standpoint. Would you agree with that? Cooper Bowman (44:03) I completely agree. And you know, I'll stick to the baseball because it's what I know. Even a tenth of a second, let's say you went from a six, eight to a six, seven, that'll see an extra five to 10 bags a year. And I don't think people realize how much those little things really contribute to to the outcome of a game. I think a perfect example is Game seven of the World Series. Isaiah Coleffa was on third bottom of the ninth one out ground ball to the second baseman. You can see that a video right behind them, you know, it's, it's, it's an important situation. So it's hard to, you know, be perfectly sound mechanically, but he's kind of running all over the place and, you know, swerving down the line and he was out by inches. And, you know, you, you take, burn a 10th of a second off that you might win a world series. And yeah, obviously that's a big example, but, ⁓ I mean, I've noticed it massively throughout my career. Scott Benson (44:45) world sees, yeah. Cooper Bowman (44:53) just the amount of times I've been safe by an inch or two where I know previously, you know, I'm out by an inch or two, if that's the case. you know, like you said, money pays, or just speed pays and speed kills. It's the number one tool in any sport to me. Scott Benson (45:09) Why do you think it's so undertrained or underutilized? Cooper Bowman (45:12) Great question. I think you had a good point where guys get put into a bucket early on. You're either faster or you're not. I've heard plenty of guys say, ⁓ I try to be fast, but you you can't teach it. You kind of can teach it. I would disagree, actually. Of course, there's some sort of aspect of genetics in there, but everyone can get faster. You know, it's not the pretty thing to do. It's not necessarily the enjoyable thing to do for a lot of guys. I think more people would rather just go. lift, go squat, deadlift, whatever it is, which are all also important. but you and I have discussed it a lot. Sprinting is the most, you know, quick Twitch thing you can do. And if that's not in every sport, then you know, I'd have to disagree again. I think that's the number one key in every sport is quick Twitch, like getting off the ground, getting down the court, whatever it is. So it may not be pretty or fun, but it's important. Scott Benson (45:59) Yeah, yeah, I'd agree. It's the most important thing and I've built the business off of it for the last 16 years and we'll continue to do that moving forward and that's what this show is all about. It's cutting through all the noise out there. All the new fads that are never gonna work. It always goes back to training the right things, working hard and being consistent. So great talk about speed. I want to shift gears a little bit right now. You and I have spoke in depth about mental approach. You know, we've read books, we've had all kinds of discussions about, you know, what it takes. We've talked a little bit today about just mental approach. You know, how do you hit the pitching today? It's just crazy with that. But, you know, as far as As a professional athlete, looking back on your mental approach and mental strength, what do you wish you would have learned at a younger age? Cooper Bowman (46:55) Yeah, that's a great question. In the baseball world, you have to learn how to fail. Of course, I think any coach would tell you that. And you you know this better than anyone. The last maybe year, year and a half of my career has been mentally harder on me than any other time I've ever played the game. And so, you know, the things you can learn at a young age of learning how to let things go, learning how to get to the next pitch. And it's so cliche to say. but those are real tools that kids can use. It's hard. You can go down a tunnel of bad thoughts. Speaking of thoughts, I would actually love to point out, I don't know if anyone is a Mookie Betts fan. I'm not necessarily the huge, know, biggest fan of him being on the Dodgers, but when I hear him talking about his mentality during games, they interviewed him after game seven, and they were like, what were you thinking? You know, before the last pitch was thrown, cause it was hit to him, he turned a double play. And he said he was, he was telling himself, be nasty, be nasty, be nasty. Ball got hit to him and then he just played. And like, I think that's so cool because I know how hard it is to do in the game, let alone when you're struggling, the guy was hitting under a hundred in the world series. He was really struggling. But for him to be able to just continue to tell himself like be nasty, you're the guy, whatever it is, is, ⁓ it's something I'm for sure going to try out. You know, I've done the talking to myself in the field, just relentless positivity, I think is such a key. And I would for sure say I haven't even learned it myself. I have plenty of moments of weakness and it's a failing game. It's mentally very hard, but just the more positivity you can bring to yourself and the more you can talk yourself up is easily the best way to get through this sport. Scott Benson (48:38) What's the toughest setback you faced as a baseball player? Cooper Bowman (48:42) ⁓ you know, this was the first time this year was the first time in my career where I was not an everyday guy. And that was pretty tough for me mentally. I'm used to being, you know, the lead off every day, second baseman center field or whatever it is. So this was the first time where I was like, huh, like other guys can, can fill that role. And it's a very hard thing to combat. shouldn't be, but it was, just because I was so used to. to having that luxury for so many years. And I think it took me a couple months really to get myself out of that hole and realize that feeling bad for yourself or pouting, it's not gonna do you any favors and it's not gonna do any of your teammates any favors. No one wants to be around it. No one wants to hear it. And the quicker people can learn that, not only is it hurting them, but it's crushing you even though you may not realize it. It took me months to realize. the thoughts I was having and the approach I was having towards days I knew I wasn't going to play ultimately hurt me when, you you just, for me, I just ended up having to be thankful I was there and take the opportunities I got. And once I changed that mindset, it changed my whole year. And it definitely gave me a lot to think about going into next season because that's how this game is. There's only so many spots, same with every sport. There's only so many starting spots. There's only so many guys. So at this level, ⁓ you have to be okay with, filling in every once in a while and plugging in where you're asked, but having the same mentality that Mookie has like, you know, I'm nasty, I'm nasty. Like this is what I'm here for stuff like that. Scott Benson (50:07) Yeah, so we talked about how difficult it is to hit a baseball, how difficult it is to hit major league pitching now. If you're not dialed in mentally, there's no way there's just no way you can do this sport. so I know that it's so mental and as athletes, we all go through ups and downs. but you gotta just keep pushing forward and I'm sure you and I will continue to have those conversations. One of the books for the listeners, The Confident Mind is a book that Cooper and I, we dove deep into and actually Dr. Nathan Zinsser, who is the author, I will be reaching out to try to get him on this show. That would be a treat for me if I could. ⁓ have this conversation with him. So hopefully coming soon. What do you think? What do you think about all this showcase baseball as opposed to a high school or an American Legion program where there's a team aspect? Can you talk a little bit about the two? Cooper Bowman (51:07) Yeah, yeah, I think it's a slippery slope personally. And I think kids are kind of getting put into a tough situation where the the main places that they're being seen are these showcases. You know, that's where a lot of these coaches are going. But the issue is these showcases are so individual and so talent based from what I've heard and seen is it's basically all about who throws the hardest and who hits the ball the furthest. Those are obviously for sure tools that colleges want to see and they want guys like that on their team. But from my understanding, I don't think the game itself is really being taught through those. Whereas, went through the Legion system. And it was all about the game. wasn't about how hard you threw or the plays you could make. was, you know, where do I need to be on a cutoff? Where am I supposed to position myself in this scenario? So, you know, I think these kids are in a tough spot because of course you want to be seen. So you want to go to these showcases and you want to get your name out there. But, you know, not only do they cost a lot of money, but you're also taking time away from learning the game itself. So, you know, it's I don't envy them. I really don't. Scott Benson (52:13) So you had made a point about, you know, that play at third base that that could have won the World Series. And, you know, there was there was a delay there. And so what I've talked to a lot of baseball coaches, I hear, you know, I hear them complain about those situational moments that these players, they don't know what to do because all they've ever done is worried about how hard they can hit a ball and how hard they can throw it and how fast they can run. And, you know, I think that's kind of what that showcase is really, you know, emphasizing. And so you lose, you lose learning to play the game. And, you know, I just I think that's an important thing. And I think this is happening outside of baseball as well. I think you see it in a lot of these club sports and, you know, kids are their motivation is is selfish. It's it's all about me. Cooper Bowman (52:51) you Mm-hmm. Scott Benson (53:04) And but I think baseball is a big one when it comes to that. And, you know, I see these, you know, these companies that they test athletes so that you can get your numbers out to college coaches. Well, I hate to break it to you, but college coaches aren't looking at those numbers. You know, they know the dudes that can run six, three sixties. And I just, you know, that's a moneymaker. That's what that is. And ⁓ Cooper Bowman (53:27) Thank Scott Benson (53:31) I see a lot of kids do that. I would, you know, I like playing the team ball where you're actually playing towards a championship, not just playing every weekend in a different town. So. Cooper Bowman (53:46) Yeah, and I'll touch on that super quick. I think that's a great point. think, especially at a younger age, I don't really know how the below high school age development is, but I would argue it's probably preaching the same things. Whereas personally, that's where I learned the game. was before I left for college. I think a lot of these kids are now not learning the game until they're in college because it's only exit below and launching and all these things. And I mean, it's hard, especially if you're lucky enough to be an 18 year old that goes to university going up against 22 year olds who are not only like we said, bigger, stronger, faster, but they also know the game. And if you watch the World Series intently, You're somewhat of a baseball knower and fan. You realize how many amazing plays were made strictly from knowledge of the game. Nothing has to do with their physical ability. It's a non-negotiable. At that level, you have to know the game. So I think these kids are, like I said, in a tough spot because I fully get it. You want to get your names in front of the big coaches and that's where they say the big coaches are. But at the end of the day, you also need to develop yourself. Scott Benson (54:53) Yeah, yeah. Okay, I gotta go back to something and make a couple comments in your benefit. When we got into that summer of training and you had talked about getting out on the track with guys that knew how to run, number one, it's humbling when you can't keep up with somebody. But what we didn't talk about is the end of that summer. you were literally running away from a Big 10 champion sprinter. And that's, I mean, that's a testament to the work that you put in, but it's also, you know, a testament to what high quality speed training will do for you. Because if you would have had that at the beginning of the summer, the results would have been much, much different. And I pulled the other kid aside. Cooper Bowman (55:21) you Scott Benson (55:45) I think we were running 150s and I pulled him aside and I said, hey, you you're right. You're not feeling good today. He's like, I'm trying. I can't keep up with him. So you had it in you the whole time. We just had to get it out of you. And then something that was kind of funny that I just thought of why we're talking is tell me again at Louisville what the fall competition was called. Cooper Bowman (56:06) of the Omaha Challenge. Scott Benson (56:07) the Omaha challenge where you did a number of different events and you were broken into teams. But I remember one of the events was a 400 meter dash. And you you were pretty, you know, high and mighty coming off your summer of training, speed training. And I remember you calling me because you got second place and you were disappointed that you got beat. And the kid that beat you was a state champion 400 meter runner. So. Cooper Bowman (56:30) Yeah. Scott Benson (56:30) That goes back to that mindset where you were competitive, which helps all those things out. So you got to have that side of it as well. You got to be confident. got to believe in yourself. And when I say believe in yourself at an emotional level, you truly have to believe that you can accomplish it. What advice would you give to a young player that maybe 12, 13, 14 that wants to wants to have a baseball career, wants to go on to the college level. Cooper Bowman (56:59) Yeah, to me, that's like such a hard question because there's just so many possible answers. But at the end of the day, it's it's and I said it about Mookie, I think it's relentless positivity and relentless work. Like you just can't stop working. Guys are just so skilled, so strong, so fast that these kids you don't have the luxury of taking. six months or a year off of serious training and serious, you know, skilled work. it's just not the way, and I'm sure most sports are like that, but that's just not the way baseball is anymore. it, it's such a hard question to answer, you know, cause there's, like I said, there's just so many, but you, have to be willing to give, give things up. You have to be willing to, whether it's another sport, whether it's, you know, the parties, whether it's the friends, it's, it's something you really. see yourself doing and want to do. Unfortunately, you just got to make sacrifices. Scott Benson (57:46) And a lot of people say that they wanna do that, but at the end of the day, people also value comfort and success. Go ahead. Cooper Bowman (57:52) They do. One of my, well, I was going to say one of my favorite things and I heard it in high school and you know, I hate being the guy who's like, I heard this quote and it carried me for years, but you know, as cheesy as it is, it's true. I remember I read the, the mamba mentality, I think it was my senior year and maybe even before that. And he's talking about how it's, it's, Kobe's talking about how it's lonely at the top. And I didn't really know what he meant. But then that senior year, I was so invested in just becoming the best athlete, baseball, basketball player I could be. I kind of started to realize as a year, when I was like, you know what? is, it is pretty lonely at the top. Like if you want to be that good, you, have to separate yourself from people and you have to, you know, you have to drop things to go train. You have to drop things to go shoot free throws, whatever it is. And, and no, no one else wants to do that. And that's okay. But if you want to be the guy that makes it, you have to do those things. So it can be a little lonely. but I would, I would argue and maybe advise younger kids, if you're feeling lonely, it's probably not the worst thing. You know, if, if you're getting those reps in, if you're doing the right things, you can't expect people to join you. Scott Benson (59:00) I also, I remember you telling me. So at a young age, you were not a baseball player. Didn't you kind of start out golfing? Cooper Bowman (59:08) Yeah. Yeah. Way back in the day, I was, I was more of a golfer than baseball. I did both, but yeah, more golf. Scott Benson (59:14) Okay. When did you start seeing, I mean, were you always good at baseball or was it something where you just kept getting better? Cooper Bowman (59:22) As a young kid, I think I was naturally good at most sports. Honestly, it probably took me until freshman and sophomore year of high school to kind of realize that, you know, I might have something here with baseball. might, you know, I think it was after I grew, truthfully. Once I grew, I think it gave me a little confidence, like, okay, I'm bigger, stronger, faster. Like I could, I could compete with these guys, but. I was definitely a late bloomer. I remember my dad always brings it up still. I used to complain in middle school. I'd be like, why do I have to do all these extra things? And then I'm not as good as all my teammates. And he'll say it to this day. He's like, you know, that was the greatest thing that could have happened to you because it just builds good habits. And three, four years later, I just watched myself kind of kind of pass a bunch of people. Yeah. Scott Benson (1:00:06) Okay, so back to the golf. You and I have been on a golf course a couple times. You made a little switch in golf a year or so ago. So why don't you tell us about that? Cooper Bowman (1:00:17) Yeah. So, been golfing maybe five years, if you take out my early days. and you know, the hard part was we get Mondays off during the season and everyone in baseball likes to golf. If those of you don't know. So, you know, I'd swing right-handed Tuesday through Sunday at baseball. Then I'd go to the golf course on Monday and swing right-handed. So not only was I, you know, compromising my body a little and tweaking some things in my back or whatever it is, but it was just mentally hard to do. And so this off season, this last one, I was just was like, you know what? I need to make this fun again. I need to make, you know, make sure from a body standpoint, I'm moving better. And so I just switched to lefty one day and I, know, it was one of the greatest things I ever did in sports. took the, it took the expectations out of the game for me. It brought back the early days of joy. I'm rotating my body the opposite direction, which there have to be benefits for that. And it makes for a great story. Scott Benson (1:01:11) Yeah, well, you you've got so many people out there trying to play the game of golf and beating their heads against the wall because they're shooting 117. And you're a guy that was shooting in the 70s right-handed and just decided to scrap that and play left-handed. So thought that was worth mentioning. That's pretty incredible. I think if I tried to switch, and I'm actually, I play right-handed, I'm naturally left-handed. I think if I tried to switch, I'd be that, Cooper Bowman (1:01:30) Thanks. Scott Benson (1:01:38) 117 or greater for a long time. So Cooper, great to have you on the show. I appreciate your insight and appreciate you willing to take the time to talk to us. Plans for the rest of the off season. Cooper Bowman (1:01:52) I got about 12 pounds to I'm trying to put on some weight. So lift heavy for the next three and a half, four weeks, and then slowly start moving fast and get back into baseball activity. Try to come back and have a healthy year. You know, it was not the healthiest of years for me physically or mentally. So that's pretty much the only goal for next year, regardless of how it goes, regardless of. You know, I finally make the last jump or not, just be able to be out there and compete and have a good mentality about it. Scott Benson (1:02:19) Yeah, well, like we've talked about, it's all between the ears. So I want to thank you again. Appreciate you being here and wish you the best of luck. Cooper Bowman (1:02:26) Yeah, I think. Scott Benson (1:02:30) Thank you again for joining Building the Athlete. Great episode with Cooper Bowman of the Oakland Athletics. A lot of things covered. Great to talk about a hitter's mindset and what training looks like at the professional level. We talked an awful lot about speed development and how important it is to any athlete, not just baseball players. Speed kills and obviously we found out that speed pays. So it was good having Cooper on. Again, Scott Benson, bensonsportstraining.com. You can go to our socials, Benson Sports Training. Give us a like, give us a follow, leave a comment. If you have ideas that you'd like to have a show that you'd like to hear, something you're dealing with that you'd like some clarity on, drop us a comment. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time, thanks a lot. We'll see you again.