Welcome to Portal 2 Ascension Radio. This is Alan Steinfeld of New Realities. I'm very excited about today's guest.
Robert Chuck is a geologist, but he's not just a regular geologist studying the rock formations.
He actually could be credited with
beginning the field of geo-archaeology.
In the early 1990s, Dr. Chuck stunned the world with a revolutionary
discovery that the great sphinx of Egypt may be at least
10,000 years old. This is 5,000 years older than
anything previously dated.
This was inspired by the work of John Anthony West, who just passed on recently.
We'll be talking about the contributions of John West to the world and where the work of Dr.
Chuck will take us from the past into the future, a future about the earth and all its inhabitants.
Robert, welcome to the program.
Well, thank you.
Because of your geological studies and sense of being in a sense, you were able to
re-date some of the old structures on the planet to points that most mainstream scientists don't,
or anthropologists don't think they're worth civilization.
Is that fair to say about you?
I think that's very fair to say.
To make a long story short, the classic, and I'm an academic, so just for the readers that
are, I should say listeners that don't know about me, I teach at Boston University.
I've taught there for over 30 years, full-time faculty member, PhD,
Yale University in geology and geophysics.
But I became interested in ancient civilizations.
Actually, I was always interested in them, but my work in them really began when I got together,
collaborate with the late John Anthony West, who I think we'll talk about in the next hour.
Yeah.
We collaborate together, I as a geologist and scientist, and to tie in with what you were just saying,
the standard academic view, which still holds sway in most universities and conventional
settings, is that civilization began a mere 5,000 to 6,000 years ago.
What I've been able to demonstrate first with the Sphinx, the great Sphinx in Egypt, and also
with other sites now, is that there was what I refer to as an earlier cycle of civilization
that goes back to at least about 10,000 plus BC.
So really, more than twice as old as the conventional concept of the beginning of civilization,
that this earlier quite sophisticated, and I believe important, civilization, the sense that
they probably knew things we don't know, was demolished, was devastated at the end of the last
Ice Age by the catastrophes at the end of the last Ice Age.
Yes, I want to talk about the Ice Age.
I mean, that is key, and of course, this might be key to our future as well.
But let's just talk about John West, and he was called by many people, a renegade Egyptologist,
and he had his own unique ideas, and this was influenced by the reading of the Temple of Man
by Swalad Ulubets.
And somewhere, I don't know where in the Temple of Man, it says that there is water erosion
on the Sphinx.
Is that correct, or is that correct?
Yes, that's basically correct.
I just to elaborate on that, John Anthony West, who was a very, very close friend as well as a
colleague.
We first met each other back in the late 1980s, or became friends almost immediately.
That way, also collaborated research together.
So I knew him about 30 years.
He passed away just last month, February 6, unfortunately, from horrible, horrible
case of cancer and fighting that.
And he wasn't a young man, he was 85.
But, getting back to the importance of his work, he was not an Egyptologist in a
classic traditional academic sense, that is, he had no degrees in Egyptology.
But he had studied it extensively on his own over decades and decades, wrote about it.
This really began with his work on astrology, and then tie in with the stars, and that led him to
Egypt, led him to the work of Swalad Ulubets, who you mentioned.
And Swalad Ulubets was really what's referred to as symbolist Egypt.
And one of the main tenets of symbolist Egypt is that the Egyptians were not these
primitive people that Egyptologists, conventional Egyptologists, tend to make them out.
Worshiping animals.
Yeah, worshipping animals, worshiping a number of gods with human bodies and animal heads.
And the Egyptologists, and I thought there was this crazy one before I start dealing with the
Egyptologists, they will snicker about how stupid and primitive the ancient Egyptians were,
even as they devote their life to studying them.
It's almost ironic.
And even after they can't even duplicate the building of something like the Great Pyramid,
that is not...
Exactly.
They can't figure out how they're able to build that, yet they want to make fun of
their primitive belief system, which actually wasn't primitive.
Of course, John was so funny.
He would call me academics, quackadamics.
Quackadamics, exactly.
That was one of his favorite terms.
And yeah, you're absolutely spot on there.
They would make fun of the ancient Egyptians and their primitive belief systems.
And really what it comes down to, and I'll...
John West, unfortunately, is gone.
But I'll speak for him, because I think he would say something to this effect only in his own
version of it.
The ancient Egyptians weren't primitive at all.
It's us, or at least the Egyptologists, that don't understand what they were saying,
how they were speaking.
They don't understand the metaphors that were used, the symbolism that was used.
That's why it's sometimes called the simplest school of Egypt.
And so to give an analogy, West would sometimes say this.
I always call John Anthony West, and he called me Shout.
So if I refer to West, that's who I'm talking about.
West would make the good analogy that everyone knows about Jesus Christ.
Jesus would tell parables, and he would talk about shepherds and sheep and farmers and sowing
and reaping.
Well, he wasn't giving agricultural advice.
He was giving deep spiritual advice.
And essentially the ancient Egyptian texts, some of them, yeah, you can translate them,
and you can even argue whether translations are good or not.
But you can translate them in a very trivial sense, versus really looking deep into what
were they saying at the most fundamental level, if that makes sense.
No, it totally makes sense.
And that gives such a foundation for Western civilization, because you know, of course,
the Greeks and the Romans and even the Hebrew, every aspect of what we call Western civilization
was influenced by Egyptian.
Egypt, I mean, the Greeks were very clear about that they learned from the ancient Egyptians,
Pythagoras and Plato.
All of them talked about that.
The story of Atlantis came from Egypt.
We can bring up last later if you're interested.
No, I do want to bring up.
Judaism, of course, is I think West would sometimes say something like Judaism is Egyptian religion
on the run or something like that.
And of course, the whole Christian mass, the whole Christian mass itself, the whole Roman
Catholic mass is really an Egyptian ceremony with the Francuses and the high hat and the altar.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And the ark is Egyptian, the concept of a manger and the cradle and Jesus and the Virgin Mary.
Well, you've got horse and Isis and you've got Osiris, you've got the Trent.
It's all Egyptian.
And historically, it's not surprising that where did Christianity take hold very, very,
very early on in Egypt?
Because it's essentially Egyptian religion transformed into a slightly different version.
That is interesting.
That, yeah.
So, I mean, everything we owe to the Egyptians, but I do want to get back to John a little bit
because he was such a huge influence in this field.
And the book he talked about that he wrote about astrology was called the Case for Astrology.
Correct.
And where he first says, well, there really is something to different times of year,
different effects of the stars on consciousness.
I mean, he's a mischievous.
Yeah.
Actually, the strongest case when you read the Case for Astrology, and he's reviewing other work,
et cetera, but a very, very strong case that in particular, planetary positions relative to each
other make a huge, have a huge impact.
And he would often use the concept of a sympathy, sympathy, symphony.
I'm trying to say symphony, although we see why this is dar symphony that of the cosmos and that
reflects on earth and vice versa.
And this, of course, goes back to the ancient, sometimes said, it would be hermetic, but the
hermetic saints go back to Egypt as above so below.
So, John, you met John in the late 1980s and this evolved into a television show on NBC called
the Mystery of the Sphinx that my friends Bill Cody and John Cheshire or C.E., they all helped
produce this really major show narrated by Charlton Heston.
I'm still an influential show if you watch it and still revolutionary in a sense.
But how did you meet John initially and how did you get you involved in this and what were
your feelings when he first told you about this?
So how did you meet John?
Okay. So the way I met John was a planned accident.
I'll put it that way.
That's maybe unfair to say.
There was a faculty member at Boston University, again, this is late 1980s, who had taught.
He was an English professor.
He had taught at American University in Cairo, had met John West when he was leading some of his
tours to Egypt, that type of thing.
They'd been talking about it.
This faculty member was fascinated by this eccentric, we'll call him, rogue Egyptologist,
as he called himself, that had these fascinating ideas and essentially said to John West,
well, is there anything I could do to help you?
And apparently West had said, find me an open-minded geologist because West knew at that time
that it really would take geological expertise to look at the Sphinx specifically, look at the
weathering pattern, see if it really was water erosion.
What would the implications of that be?
More or less, if it was water erosion, did that then mean it had to go back to Pre-Saharan
times, which would get into the early dating.
So apparently this faculty member had kept this in mind for several years.
He ended up teaching not only at Boston University, but at the very college where I have been teaching.
Actually, since 1984, I might as well have real dates.
That faculty member and I got to know each other.
We were in good, friendly terms.
That faculty member was able to get John West invited to a colloquium, a symposium.
It was just one of these things that universities often will invite someone
if they're relatively local because John Anthony West lived in upstate New York
to come and give a seminar for the students and faculty.
I think it was a Friday afternoon type of event where people just get together,
somewhat socialize, also learn something new.
So this was arranged, and it was arranged that I would make sure I would be there.
So I could see John Anthony West and see if they could see what my reaction was.
We had dinner afterwards at the home of this other faculty member.
And we got to talking, and John Anthony West seemed like an interesting fellow.
And we sort of got along right away, which was interesting.
And he went my opinion.
I said, well, yeah, from the slides he was showing me, it looks interesting.
It could be water weathering, and that would have major implications for the dating
because it would have to be priests, a hare, blah, blah, blah.
But I can't really tell from a bunch of photographs.
I know I'm a professional geologist.
I know that people can have photographs, and it looks like one thing, but then when you're
there on site, you put everything into context in a different story emerges.
And I also probably told them at the time that all my academic colleagues in Egyptology,
they agree that this thing is about 2500 BC.
I mean, you know, I didn't think this was a big controversy.
Of course, they were all giving the standard dogma.
And where we left it was that, you know, I wasn't going to say anything or worry about this further.
And I told them, you know, I'd really have to go to Egypt to inspect the rocks and really
make sense of it.
He said, oh, yeah, we'll see work on that.
And I didn't believe him for a second.
Alston, he was going to arrange for me to go to Egypt.
But lo and behold, summer of 1990 comes around and he invites me to go to Egypt with him
and do a first reconnaissance inspection on site and everything blossomed from there.
Wait, were you just a pretty normal regular geologist up until that point?
Did you ever do ancient civilization?
Well, it depends on what you call a normal regular geologist.
I had, I have, not that I have a degree in geology and geophysics from
Yale. That's where my PhD is.
I actually have three degrees from me.
I'm not trying to say I have a bunch of degrees, but I'm stressing that I am a normal academic.
I didn't, you know, I'm not a self-taught geologist like West versus
Utah Egyptologists.
I have all the proper academic credentials if people worry about the such things.
And yeah, I was doing normal standard geology.
I have my specialty.
If it means anything to your listeners was Eocene stratigraphy.
Now it just so happened that the sphinx is carved out of Eocene rocks, Eocene limestone.
So I could sort of justify in a normal sense, oh, I'd like to see these rocks.
I even joked with West on my first trip that, you know, these are really beautiful.
Eocene limestone, he shows refill structures and all this type of thing.
And the fossils too bad that they chopped it all up and carved into the silly statue.
But he didn't appreciate them.
That was, you had to West?
I said that to him, you know, as a joke.
Right.
Because I mean a normal geologist wouldn't look at sculptures necessarily.
I mean a geology.
Exactly.
And a normal geologist would not look at sculptures.
But I wanted to add something in the back.
And this probably ties in with my receptivity.
I was always interested in ancient cultures, ancient civilizations.
I remember when I was just a few years old going to see Tutankhamen,
some treasures from Tutankhamen that had been brought to Washington DC for exhibition.
I remember my grandmother, you know, giving me books on ancient history.
My grandmother was a Theosophist.
So, and she taught me a lot about Theosophie, which is not exactly mainstream academia.
So I did have, I think, in hindsight, as I reflect on myself,
I had been prepared, it turns out, to look at certain things.
And I want to say objectively and look at the real evidence,
but also keep an open mind in realizing that there's some times academia might be wrong.
Was that true?
Was that true of anything you've had seen before you saw the things that there was a big era
in some kind of academic issue?
Did you ever notice that before?
Oh, before I got involved in the
first time, I worked as a graduate student.
I worked on various types of fossil mammals.
I actually have one named after me, but I worked on different types of fossil mammals.
And in some cases, you know, we would be reconstructing the relationships of the mammals
and how they relate to each other.
And in a couple of cases, I found that when I looked at all the evidence,
the standard reconstructions were frankly wrong.
And I was able to convince my colleagues that we had to look at things very, very differently.
I'll give you two other examples.
I remember when the asteroid hypothesis for the extinction of the dinosaurs
was first proposed.
I was a young graduate student or so at the time.
And I remember that it was first proposed by Alvarez et al.
This is the extinction of the dinosaur 65 million years ago,
which had always been a geological problem.
And I remember very specifically professors at the time laughing at it and saying,
this was absurd.
This was ridiculous.
You know, nothing like this happens.
I mean, little comets and asteroids might hit,
but nothing that's going to be so devastating worldwide catastrophe.
Well, all these decades later, we have so much evidence to demonstrate that that is the case.
It has now become the mainstream thought.
I wonder what was it that was discovered?
And of course, we want to get into your whole theory about disaster.
But what was it that convinced the mainstream that it was a huge meteorite or asteroidite,
that hit the Earth, that destroyed the dinosaur population?
They found the crater.
They found all kinds of stratigraphic evidence.
I mean, what one thing you want when you put together something scientific like this
is that all the different pieces of the puzzle have to fit together.
So generally, if not even just one quote, smoking gun,
as some people like to use the term, and I hate that term personally,
but it's a lot of different evidence that has to come together that all
compliments each other.
And that has happened with the asteroid impact.
We have iridium layers around the world from the asteroid.
We have fragments of the asteroid in the Yucatan area.
The actual crater has been found is now covered with 65 million years worth of sediment,
but you can pick it up geophysically.
The extinctions and what caused the extinctions due to climatic changes,
all explained by asteroids.
It's a very, very interesting situation where most people in the scientific community,
geologists in particular, thought that it was not the case.
They thought it was ridiculous.
I was told by one faculty member, again, I was a student at the time,
that the only reason it was published is because one of the co-authors on it had won
the Nobel Prize in physics, but frankly, he knew nothing about geology.
And they just felt that they had to let him publish it because he had won a Nobel Prize
in a different discipline.
But everyone would forget about the theory by a week or two, and it would be gone.
So it's an interesting type of thing.
I think this is going to be the case for the Sphinx and the Redating of the Sphinx.
Absolutely, but I'm just curious a little bit about the more specifics of that asteroid.
So there's an asteroid at a certain size that did what?
I mean, how big was it and how did that kill probably hundreds of thousands,
maybe millions of creatures on the planet?
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Oh, it was huge.
I forget, honestly, what the estimate size of it was, but it was a huge asteroid.
I forget now.
I mean, I didn't think we were going to talk about this that much, but you know,
left a crater, hundreds of kilometers in diameter, just the crater.
It was thrown up a huge debris cloud and dust cloud caused huge climatic changes.
You had a ridding around.
It may have caused levels of rail activity.
The smeasebeculane, it certainly impacted the oxygen levels and the atmosphere.
And when you've got something that big, it's going to be absolutely global.
It's actually a good analogy, although a very different type of thing,
but somewhat analogous, I'm using it as a crude analogy, for what happened at the end of the last
ice age, 9,700 BC, but at the end of the last ice age, it was not an asteroid or comet that hit.
It was solar eruptions that caused atmospheric changes, climatic changes,
disrupted our magnetosphere, disrupted the atmosphere, caused high radiation levels on the
surface of the Earth.
So when you have things that are big enough like that, geologically and astronomically,
they will have global ramifications.
For instance, a lot of animals went extinct.
I'm going back to the Cretaceous now, 65 million years ago, a lot went extinct in the oceans,
probably because of the ocean chemistry changing.
And a lot of marine organs are very sensitive to the ocean chemistry and also temperatures.
So even in modern times, we see reefs dying because of very minor temperature changes.
But when you have a major temperature change like that, a lot of species are very vulnerable.
Likewise, on land, when you have temperature changes or oxygen changes in the level of oxygen,
etc. So the dinosaurs went extinct except for the birds.
The birds, frankly, are from a taxonomic point of view, little feathered dinosaurs.
They are the birds out of reptilians.
I'm sorry?
The birds evolved out of reptilians.
Yeah, yeah. In fact, there's plenty of evidence now that a lot of what we think of as genuine
dinosaurs were covered with feathers too. And they had plumage. There's evidence that they had
plumage that they were brightly covered. So you can think of Tyrannosaurus rex running around
by having little feathers rather than scales.
Well, all right. So that's, I mean, that sort of gives the next, but there were no humans alive at
that point. No, no, no. Humans didn't come around for another, you know, humans have only been around
depending on how you define human. Humans have only been around the last couple of million years.
Our species only goes back maybe 200,000 years or so.
Or so they say that's not an idea.
Well, that they, I know, I mean, I know the evidence otherwise. But what you have to also
look at is not just humans, but in this gets back to my themes, were the earlier cycles of,
we'll call, beings that were technologically sophisticated. So in some cases, people will
find things and I'm not going, I don't want to get into it. Well, we could always go into it.
There's so many different digressions we could talk about. This is why people need to come to
the October conference. We can talk about all this. But when you also read your book as well, you know,
yeah, that's true. Forgotten civilization is a good book to read. My book, Forgotten Civilization,
subtitle the role of solar outbursts in our past and future. And if I could put a plug for my website,
www.robertchocksh.com. So www Robert Shock, all one word and shock is schoc.com.
But what I was going to say is even if you find sophisticated evidence of artificiality,
you know, you have to then decide is that human or not? How do you define human?
Depending on how you define human, it may be, you know, there have been other quote species of
humans on earth in the past. So it gets, you know, it gets complicated.
Well, but I want to get that. Thank you for that little digression. But I want to get back to
joining John West for that first time in Egypt because essentially the two of you are essentially
you changed history. You changed the civil. Well, yes, it's a huge thing. And congratulations
for being willing to step out there against the academic thinking and say, no, there's something
else going on here. So you, what you got to Egypt, so talk about that back in the late or 90,
1990 with John West. And he had read in the Temple of Man that there were water weatherings.
And he brought you over there. See, is this really water weathering? Talk about that first time
you, you were at the Sphinx. Okay. Well, the first time, yeah, we, so we go over in 1990.
And I see this thing for the first time. And this happened within, I mean, literally within
30 seconds, 30 seconds of seeing the Sphinx. Two things struck me very quickly as a geologist.
One was that, yes, this sure looks like water weathering. It sure looks like very ancient water
weathering. I even mumbled some thunder my breath, which I asked him never to repeat. And of course,
he loved to repeat it afterwards. You know, he held back for a couple of years. And I'll say it now.
I said not only did something to the effect that, I mean, you know, this looks like it could be
referring to the weathering. This looks like it could be 100,000 years old, which I don't want
to say, I believe it's 100,000 years old. But the point was that it's extremely weather that has
to go back to earlier pre-Saharan condition. Initially, I was thinking 5 to 7,000 BC.
And that was a very, very conservative view. I'm now absolutely convinced it's at least 10,000
to 11,000 BC. And I talk about that in Origins of the Sphinx, which is a book that I wrote
with my colleague Robert Bovall that just came out last year. And again, that's at www.robertshock.com.
But getting back to John Anthony West, so the first thing that struck me was on our first trip
there literally within 30 seconds or so of seeing the Sphinx for the first time was that, yes,
there's something to this. And I was absolutely perplexed because, you know, where were the Egypt
colleges? How could they have missed this? And I kept thinking to myself that there had to be
something wrong here. And I also realized that this was not flooding. This was not water coming
up from the Nile. If it had been doing that, it would have been undercutting considerably.
It would not be what we see. Many people have said to me, well, you know, it's just Nile flooding.
Well, no, it's not Nile flooding. And it's not Nile flooding covering the entire body of the Sphinx
and up the enclosure walls. I mean, people that sometimes people say silly things and they've never
actually been there or even if they've been there, they haven't actually looked at it carefully.
I realized that was water coming down from above, more or less precipitation, rainfall, runoff,
which we now know goes back to the end of the last Ice Age from the solar outburst that put all this
water into the atmosphere that had to come down as torrential rains. So number one was,
I recognized the water weathering. Number two, immediately I said to myself, and I think I said to
John Anthony West, the head is too small for the body. And furthermore, the head is not
weather the same way as the body. And it was quite evident to me initially, and now,
speak as a scientist, my working hypothesis within 30 or so seconds was that that was not the original
head of the Sphinx, that that is a recarved head. They recarved it and it became smaller.
That's why it doesn't look the same as the body. It doesn't, well, I'm talking geologically,
it doesn't have the same weathering. And yes, no question in my mind at that time that it was a
dynastic head. And yeah, sure, okay, it's a dynastic head that could be 2500 BC, but that doesn't mean
that the Sphinx originally in 2500 BC, it just means it was reused. It was re-appropriated. The
head was probably heavily, heavily weathered, and they recarved it to look the way it does
now more or less, they recarved into a human head. I always tend to think that was a lion originally.
Oh, wait, so you're saying it hasn't been a new head that's been placed on this thing. There was a
head that was then reformatted from the head that was there. Correct. That's absolutely correct.
I never knew that. Okay. Yeah, no. And this is a very important point, because that is all solid
bedrock. There's no question in my mind. And I've actually walked on the back of the Sphinx. I had
the privilege to do that, looked at it up close. When you look at the head now, you'll see that
there's cement on it. They've mucked about with it to use a non-technical term. And if people want to
go to origins of Sphinx, the book I wrote with Robert Bovell, they will find lots of photographs
from before the 1920s, when they had, before had the modern restorations. But there's no doubt
that head is contiguous with the body. It's all solid rock. And what happened was that the original
head, which I believe was a lion, in fact, a female lion, mehid. And if people go to my website,
they'll find a recent article that I wrote with Manu Safes today, Dr. Manu Safes today,
and Robert Bovell. We wrote an article talking about what the original Sphinx was, a lionness.
But that original head was highly eroded, weathered from the rains, from the precipitation,
and instead of trying to repair it as they did to the body with little blocks of limestone. And
you can see those on the paws of the Sphinx in particular. They did something that's just as
logical in hindsight. They simply took the rotted, eroded head and recarved it when you
recarve something, it gets smaller. And was it true that it was Napoleon soldier that blasted the nose?
No. Not at all. Not at all. In fact, Napoleon was very, very interested in antiquities. He would have
had, I suspect he would have had any soldiers that did something like that,
summarily executed. Actually, yeah, no, I'm serious. Yeah, actually, it apparently was Arabs earlier,
because Egypt was not originally Arab. The Arabs came and invaded the country and took it over,
population is a whole different race than the Arab population. Exactly. And people can relate
to this in America, at least if they think about it, I hate to say there's a lot of typical Americans
who are not Native American, but they're considered typical Americans. Now,
they're being ancestry or Hispanic ancestry or Asian ancestry or African ancestry. So we've got a
lot of Americans now that are not from the Native North American population. And the same in Egypt.
But in Egypt, this has been going on. The Arabs invaded Egypt well over a thousand years ago,
and apparently it was some of the Arabs who weren't so fond of the Sphinx, or at least in
care about it, who used it as target practice, canon practice. Or maybe even did it purposeful,
because you'll notice when you look at the face of the Sphinx, what is most damaged? That's the
nose, and you take the nose off of a statue to kill it, to kill its spirit. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.
So it's not, I mean, sometimes people don't realize this. Yeah, noses are fragile, any way
on statues. But in some cases, on ancient statues, you'll see that they consistently lose their
nose. Well, sometimes that's purposeful, because it's a way to quote, kill the statue, if you would.
Kill the energy of the statue. Kill the energy of the kill the spirit of it.
Just about the difference between Egyptians and Arabs, they have different features. You can still
see some of the original, when I was in Egypt, I could see some of the original Egyptian features,
where they have eyes that are wider set apart. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Exactly. And
exactly. And when I take people to Egypt, and I do, and if people are interested in going to Egypt,
I'm planning a trip for, I think for a second, late May 2019, late May 2019.
And how could they sign up for that? I haven't posted yet, but the best thing to do is go to my
website, and they'll find under contact, my email address info at robertchock.com. They can send
me an email and say they're interested, because right now I'm planning it with my colleagues in
Egypt, so we're pricing it out, getting it all together. So it hasn't been posted yet. Once
it's all finalized, it'll be posted on my website. But in the meantime, I would encourage people to
actually send me an email, go to the website, go to contact, they'll find my email address there,
and let me know that they're interested, because I've already got quite a number of people interested
in it. I hate to put it this way, because I, but I'll just say it bluntly. John West was always
blunt, and he didn't mind people being blunt. Yeah, he used to give wonderful trips. He used to
take people to Egypt also, and I've been doing a long time too. He and I would do it independently,
we do it together. But because of his cancer, he could not do his last trip. This was in February,
March last year, I got to get the right. That was his last scheduled trip. There had already been a
lot of people that signed up for it, and he just couldn't do it. I mean, he's in the hospital in
critical, critical situations. So I actually did it, Grattice, I did it, I did it on his behalf.
So I actually, I ended up leading the last, and it was meaningful to me as my close friend. I wanted
to do it for him. I ended up leading the last John Anthony West trip. So a number of people have
said to me that, you know, was on their bucket list to get to Egypt. So, you know, we're putting
together more. But I would gain back to a point, actually, when I take people to Egypt,
you can see the difference as you go from Cairo as we go south into Upper Egypt. You can see the
change in the population, and you tend to have more of the most classic, you know, native Egyptian
features as you go south. Oh, I think, but there was one geological question I've always been
interested in, because if you claim, and I'm sure you're right, that this things was created
while it was still, why it wasn't desert, it means that there was a jungle type of a foresting
final. I don't know if it was jungle. I would say more, more temperate. Yeah, like,
we'd be compared to like, upstate New York, or that kind of like, not all the good.
We call this city. Yeah, yeah. I do. Yeah, yeah, it's maybe maybe, you know,
forested area, that type of thing with a lot of animals in game. What? There were lots of lions,
and right lions were very popular. Oh, yeah. That's part of the world. Yes, absolutely.
I love lions and gazelles and things like that. Yeah, it was very
abundant, abundant planting animals. And so the land there, because if you go there now,
it looks like, you know, it's all desert, all sand. Yeah. And sand around it, it very much looks
like the sand, or the struck of the rock of the, of the sinks itself. So you're saying, there was
like a level of like topsoil where the vegetation grew, and underneath that, there was like a huge
rock formation that the things was carved out of. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, I mean,
you would have carved, they would have carved, because you have high areas that the giza plateau
is a plateau, geologically. So there was probably rock, you know, you can think of an area.
And in the modern times, where you have a rock out layer, excuse me, I'm losing my voice. So
a rock out layer, or, you know, you have rock, it's not mountain per se, but you know, a good chunk
of rock that's exposed. And they probably were attracted to this. There was probably the head
of the Sphinx. We were talking about the head of the Sphinx, was probably a rock outcropping
at the time. And my hypothesis, and actually I'm not alone in this, some Egyptologists have even
said this, although they put the dating a little differently, of course, that probably originally
the Sphinx started as a big rock outcropping, sitting above the general soil level, as you said,
and attached, of course, to the bedrock, and that they probably started by carving it into a head.
It may have originally looked sort of like a face or something, and then they carved it into a head.
I believe a lion's head initially. And then they continued to work on it and, you know, dig out
the soil and get down to the bedrock and carve into the rock, you know, think of a quarry essentially,
and carve the body out. And I say think of a quarry because they realized this was nice rock,
and they actually quarried out huge blocks when they carved the body of the Sphinx, took those
just to the east of the Sphinx to build what's called nowadays the Sphinx temple, which sits to
this day right in front of the Sphinx. So they realized there was rock there. They probably started
by having this rock outcropped into a head, and then they took it from there, and the rest is
history, as they say. Now, since then, with a Sahara moving in that you had desertification,
or less, you know, desert forming, you strip off the top soil, you start getting sand, etc. These
are just natural things that happen, and they're happening to this day. You can see that type of
those types of changes taking place even in, say, the last 200 years in many areas.
So what was the dating from when it went from temperate, you know, top soil to desert? What is
that official date? The official date, well, it depends on who you're talking to. There's a couple
of official dates. One is a dramatic, dramatic climate change at 9,700 BC, which I've mentioned
already, which is the end of the last Ice Age. We can date that very precisely based on ice cores
and isotopic records in the ice cores and various sediment cores. I talked about this in my book
Forgotten Civilization. So that's number one. There was a major change then, which was affected
the Sphinx, or we can even call it the protosphenes, because it goes back to that earlier civilization.
And from that time on, you have major changes in climate. You have climate going back and forth,
sometimes more moist, sometimes less moist. And then the other major sort of official date
is about 5,000 years ago, about 3,000 BC, when it's very well documented, very well documented,
that you have the ultra-ultra hyper-arid desert conditions have set in by then.
And that's really the dating of the modern Sahara. So you've got the brief house of BC,
dating of the modern Sahara, and then going back in time, about 9,700 BC, the dating of the last
Ice Age. And in between those two dates, you had fluctuations in climate back and forth. But there's
no doubt in my mind that at this point, for numerous reasons, which again, again, to detail
an origins of the Sphinx, for those who are interested, that the Sphinx itself,
the original Sphinx, goes back to that really early period, before the end of the last Ice Age,
before 9,700 BC. So the Sphinx was originally carved from that one piece of stone,
each sometime before 9,700 BC, but it's back in BC. Correct. And what we talk about, and this ties
in, which is why Robert Bovall and I wrote the book together, this ties in with what the ancient
Egyptians themselves talked about, which was Zeptepe, the first time, the primordial time,
if you would, they called it Zeptepe. We can now date that back to approximately,
I'll use Bovall's Archaeo-Astronomy here, approximately 10,500 BC, when all the correlations line up,
that lines up with, prior to the end of the last Ice Age, that lines up to the geological evidence,
as I now best interpret it, for the age of the Sphinx, that has to be at least settled,
probably goes back even a bit further. So everything lines up that it goes back to that early period,
this also ties in with things, for instance, like the dating of Atlantis, according to Plato,
and here I take Atlantis' Nazid geographic region, and I agree with West on this, John Anthony West,
because he and he called it the A-word, didn't he? I called it the A-word. For years, West was
upset that I would not say the word Atlantis, at least not on camera, or in radio interviews,
because to this day, if you talk about Atlantis in standard academia, they start laughing at you,
and thinking you're crazy, unless you're a philosopher, and you're just using it as a metaphor analogy.
But the way I'm using Atlantis, and the way John Anthony West used Atlantis, and I believe the way
Plato used Atlantis, is not so much worried about where's the geographic location, we can talk about
that, but really what's important is that the dating of Atlantis goes back to what we now call
the end of the last Ice Age. Plato put it about 9,600 BC, modern dating puts it 9,700 BC, but the
point is that there was sophisticated civilization at that early period, and I just wanted to make
one other quick point, is that we have independent evidence now at Gabeckley-Tepé in Turkey,
that there's also incredible sophistication before 9,700 BC, and that it was there, we have the same
story of the civilization being devastated, and we have evidence of it at Gabeckley-Tepé, as well as
in Egypt, of the catastrophes at that time. But wait, let me just get something clear, if you say,
and I believe you, that this thing was probably built, at least maybe let's see a bit of rough
estimate, 10,000 years BC, and the water weathering didn't happen, so when did the weathering happen?
The weathering began at the end of the last Ice Age, probably the majority of the water
weathering on the Sphinx, this is me speaking now, if you look at my papers from decades ago,
I've refined my thinking on this, probably the major water weathering on the Sphinx is 9,700 BC,
or thereabouts at the end of the last Ice Age, because that's when we had, and we now know this
geologically torrential, torrential rains and water runoff, and it would have had a huge impact
on the Sphinx. Again, to put in context, you have a major solar outburst, you have a huge climate
change, a huge dramatic warming, you're melting the glaciers, you're putting all kinds of water into
the atmosphere, you're literally melting not just glaciers, but lakes are evaporating very, very
quickly, the atmosphere can only hold so much water before it starts precipitating out again,
so this is a time geologically when we have recorded absolutely torrential rains, I personally
think it goes back to the Bible and all the stories around the world of huge flooding,
and I think that the majority or at least the initial impact on the Sphinx was from that period,
now did it weather more since then, of course, and is it still weathering today because of
chiro pollution, but yes, of course. I'm just curious, it would have had to be even much older
than 97400, I mean, it could be like you initially said, it could be 20,000 or
okay, yeah, I think where you're going, I'm giving it still a minimal date, I'm telling,
what I'm saying, let me rephrase it, I'm saying the Sphinx was there in 10,000 BC,
right, could it be older, I can't deny it could be older, and coming back to John Anthony West,
something that he used to like to go to me about, and I can't say he was wrong, absolutely, he
often said, well, the Sphinx itself could be a processional cycle earlier, because there are
astronomical alignments that make sense, in 10,000 BC are there bouts, the Sphinx is looking at its
own image in the sky on the vernal equinox, more or less Leo, exactly, now that-
Yeah, yeah, but that also happens 36,000 BC are there bouts, more or less a processional cycle
earlier, and West and I will often have these long discussions, could the Sphinx actually go back
to that even earlier period, earlier cycles, so tens of thousands of years earlier, could I deny
that geologically, absolutely no, and one of the interesting things is that once you get a weathering
profile at a certain, you know, distinctive diagnostic feature, it can remain relatively stable for a
very long time, more or less the rock continues to weather and recede, but it keeps the same profile,
if that makes sense too, you end up listening, right, so I'm saying, so I'm saying it's at least 10,000 BC,
I'm not saying it's any older than that, but I'm also saying that I have to be open to the
possibility if we have evidence in the future that maybe it is older, you know, what I've got
right now doesn't preclude the possibility. No, it's fascinating, and I think you're so
instrumental in the whole field of geo-archaeology, and- but the main thing I think we should talk
about, I don't know how much time we have, but the thing is about the ice age, so what was, so
can you run through the climate, so before there was an ice age, how long, how far back does that go,
and what precipitated the ice age, and what ended the ice age, so let's start before the ice age,
when was that? Okay, well, yeah, this gets very complex, but we'll do a simple version,
argue about what causes ice ages to begin and end, because there have been a number of ice ages
over the last couple of million years, you probably have to have the earth in the right position,
both astronomically and also continental positions, you know, continents change that type of thing,
it ties in with ocean circulation patterns, so this- the earth does not always go in and out of
ice ages, but in geologic terms it does periodically go through periods where you have periods within
those periods of ice ages, we happen to live in one of those periods. Are we in an ice age now?
What are we in an ice age now? Well, no, we're in a period of ice ages, we're probably in what's
known as an interglacial at the moment, and we may frankly be going into another ice age,
so to get back to your question, what drives- it's really what drives the climate fluctuations
during periods when you can have ice ages, and you generally have an ice age for maybe 100,000 years,
and you have an interglacial or a period between ice ages, maybe 10,000 plus years,
if you think of it that terms, it's been 12,000 years since the last ice age, quote,
ended, we're due for another ice age, but you know, that's very imprecise.
But in ice ages- no, I'm sorry, what made the- I also want to know how you define ice age, so yeah, go ahead.
Well, ice age- people argue about that, but ice age is essentially a period of overall
climatic cooling on earth. It's generally- most of the work has been done in the northern hemisphere,
but you know, you have overall climatic differences in temperature, you know, cooling temperatures,
numerous degrees below what we have now. So let me talk about the very end of the last ice age,
and that may help clarify things. At the very end of the last ice age, it was starting to get
warmer. A lot of- oh, I was going to say a lot of the temperature changes probably have to do with
solar variation, changes in the sun. There's a very strong correlation between sunspots, sun cycles,
not just 11-year cycles, but longer-term cycles. And again, I talked about this in
forgotten civilization, and temperatures on earth. This is something that people tend to deny,
because right now it's very popular to blame everything on humans. But, you know, there's been
climatic changes long before humans were around, and they correlate with solar changes that we can
pick up with isotope data in ice cores and sediment cores. So a lot of it seems to be driven by the
sun. At the end of the last ice age, toward the end, there's what's known as the Younger Dryas.
So the earth was slowly warming up until about 10,900, 10,800 BC. Suddenly it was driven back into
really cold temperatures that had not existed for, you know, back to the colder temperatures of the
ice age. It had started to warm up. It was driven back into the height of the ice age, if you would.
And that lasted about 1200 years or so. And then suddenly within just a few days, maybe
literally overnight, and this is based on isotope data. So it's not just me saying this,
that suddenly and dramatically warmed up to essentially modern temperatures, you know,
probably literally overnight. And that would make sense, because it was probably an
outburst from the sun that essentially scorched or fried the earth.
This was 10,000 years ago or 96,000.
9,700 BC. So the two dates are 10,900 BC, beginning of the Younger Dryas, where you have a cooling
event. And that is the one, and I hate to bring it up because there's no evidence for it. But some
people claim there was a comet then. There's actually no evidence for that. And I don't want to.
This is Graham Hancock. Yeah, but he's misinterpreted. He essentially cited a lot of evidence that
has been falsified in the academic community. Maybe you two debate each other at the portal to
attention. I don't think it's worth it, frankly. There's more important things to talk about.
Like, but I just want to say that I don't accept that that thesis. In fact, there's lots of evidence
that the sun was having erratic behavior at that time. That's what drove the cool period. And then
it exploded the sun in 9,700 BC. And that's what essentially snapped us out of the last ice age.
All the evidence is... All the evidence is solar. The sun was driving this.
Do you... humans can exist through these cycles of ice age? Oh, yeah. They can flourish. You look at
the Neanderthals, for instance, who are a species of human. They did very, very well during the
ice age. They probably went extinct in part because of climatic changes. And all of a sudden
it was frankly too hot for them. So it depends on what you're used to. But okay, going back to
that event, 9,700 years ago, something warmed the earth like maybe practically overnight. And that
started the precipitation that is in the flooding. Yes, because... Okay, so I mean,
something specifically I'm absolutely convinced based on the evidence was a solar outburst.
You would have had, in some places, essentially what looked like huge lightning strikes hitting
the earth. What's known as plasma or electrically charged particles from a coronal mass ejection
that apparently hit the earth at the time. We have modern analogies for this, for instance,
the Carrington Event in 1859, which is very, very, very minor. But fried the telegraph lines at
the time. So you can think of really dramatic changes that were correlated or did correlate with
earthquake activity, with volcanic activity. As I said, you can think of just for a visual
huge lightning striking the earth in certain spots, sort of like tornadoes hitting down.
As analogy, frying things, we actually have evidence of vitrification, rock having flash
melted and then resolitified. Whenever you hit water, whether the water was ice or liquid water,
it would have evaporated almost immediately, effectively, from these very high temperatures.
And it would have put a lot of moisture into that atmosphere, as I mentioned,
which cannot be sustained and it comes out as torrential rains. I also wanted to mention that
some of the evidence that's been suggested for our comments since we did bring it up are things,
for instance, like vitrification, what they call shocked cords, different types of nanodimons,
etc. It's now been demonstrated that even conventional lighting, lightning, even conventional lightning
can produce such effects. Now, when you have a stun, the solar event, a solar outburst,
and you have this on a massive scale worldwide, you get those types of features. So what I'm saying,
very simply, is a lot of the evidence that's been used to support a comet actually is
compatible with and even makes more sense with a solar outburst. So I'm convinced that's what
happened and that's what caused these torrential rains, etc. Now, getting to the area of the sphinx
during the end of the last ice age, that's a relatively low latitude. So it wasn't super cold at all.
It was really wonderful for people to live there. Now, frankly, each of us a bit on the hot side,
should we say. Even in the ice age, it was a good place to live.
Oh, it was a wonderful place to live. I wish I lived there during the end of the last ice age.
Maybe you did. Yeah, maybe I did. Because this is another misconception some people have. They
think, oh, I say that the whole world was cold and horrible. No, no, no. I mean, there were
latitudinal gradients just as there are today and places like what's modern Sahara Desert was
really nice. That's where you wanted to hang out, etc. But the torrential rains, was that a
worldwide phenomenon every continent and how did that affect the oceans and everything like that?
Oh, that was a worldwide phenomenon. So you had flooding, you had lakes rising, you have,
of course, myths and stories about floods around the world, but it also affected the oceans. The
oceans were affected a couple of different ways. Of course, anything that falls on land
ultimately works its way to the oceans. And when you have torrential rains, this ties in with
something else we were talking about before, you strip topsoil, you know, you have a lot of erosion,
not just on the Sphinx, but more generally. So we've been quite horrific from that point of view.
You have all this water making its way into the ocean. And of course, the glaciers melting,
all ended up in the ocean. So all this huge mass of water going into the oceans raised sea levels
by hundreds of meters. And that's well-documented geologically. Furthermore, when you warm the
oceans, which is what happened, warm water expands. The water expands a little bit. So just from
thermal expansion, you raise sea levels on top of, you know, in addition to the water that you're
adding to it. So it was, I mean, it really was, a lot of things were happening. And of course,
most people historically and to this day live near coastal areas. People like the beach,
and they like to be 20,000 years ago. But it's not a good place to be when sea levels are rising
quickly and dramatically. Well, that really brings us to the most important thing. I mean,
it's great to talk about the path. But what is happening now? Are we, is it possible that
something like that, like a solar event or an ice age or can happen or will happen?
Well, it's not just possible. I think it's absolutely, it's not even just probable. It will happen.
I mean, geologists, let's be realistic. These things happen.
And what exactly you think is going to happen. Oh, okay. Well, the sun is a star. I mean, let's,
let's, you know, sometimes people say the last Aristotelian vestige is that the sun is somehow
perfect and unchanging, unlovable, you know, no, the sun is a star. It goes through periods of,
to be anthropomorphic agitation. It goes through periods of quiescence. It goes through periods of
strange from our perspective activity. The sun was very active at the end of the last ice age,
with these solar outbursts and whatnot. It went through a period of, I don't want to see dormancy,
but being relatively stable more or less ever since for, you know, 8,000 plus years,
because it took time after the last ice age for it to calm down and stabilize again.
But like any star, it goes through periods of activity. And our sun, I believe, has a cycle
of activity on the order of about 12,000 years or so. And in the last century, in the last half
century, even there, it's not just me saying this. There are people who independently,
astrophysicists who have looked at the solar data, have looked at isotope data independently,
and pointing out that the sun is all of a sudden becoming quite active again in the last couple
of centuries, especially the last 50 years. And it's showing all the things, it's showing all the
same signs of agitation it did right before the end of the last ice age. When you had a major
solar outburst, what it means, bottom line, is that we could have another major solar event
in the very near future. I would not be surprised, you know, if it happens next year, I won't be
surprised personally, I'm not predicting that. But we could be hit by a major solar outburst,
coronal mass ejections, solar flares, what's known as solar proton event, etc., etc., it could
devastate our modern technological society. And frankly, it would wipe out all the electrical
grids, it would wipe out all the electronics, it would wipe out all the communication systems,
it would mess up our magnetosphere, it would cause high levels of radiation on the surface of the
earth, which is what happened at the end of the last ice age. The way to escape it for those lucky
enough would be to go underground, to go into caves, which is what we have at the end of the
last ice age where pockets of humanity were able to escape that way. Before we went into what I call
solar induced dark age or citta, which in last time around, that lasted from about 9700 BC to
about 3500 BC when civilization reemerged again, including the reuse of the Sphinx. So
we should learn from the past. But what happens in the dark ages between that,
what happens in that period? There's not enough light on the surface, what can you talk about?
No, no, no, it's not so much that there's not enough light on the surface. Things come back to
normal from nature's point of view, if you would. But when you've got advanced civilization,
and it is knocked back to its knees, so to speak, to use the metaphor. And so many people have been
killed, and in many cases, not everyone has all the technology or has all the knowledge,
and you lose the critical people, it takes a long time to rebuild. I mean,
Jazza analogy, think about the collapse of the Roman Empire and classical civilization circa
580. It took a thousand years for that to be, quote, rediscovered and further renaissance to come
about. Think about it this day. I know I'll speak for myself. I'm a scientist. I have a PhD. But
all of a sudden, 90% of the people are more around me died, and all the technology was wiped out.
Even if I had the knowledge, I couldn't reboot civilization in a generation or rebuild computers
that have been fried. So these things take time. You said though, that math solar event happened
during an ice age. I want it ended at the ice age. But we're not in an ice age now, not that I get
that matters. But no, it doesn't matter. We did this done. Probably what this might do is actually
drive us into an ice age again, or it might just happen in an ice age doesn't come. It's
what causes an ice age. There's a lot of different factors that go into that.
And it partly has to do with the surface of the earth and the albedo, the reflectivity of the earth,
etc. It could drive us into an ice age again if you had enough precipitation and high
latus and you've built up ice, which has a high reflectivity, and then drives temperatures
down again. We just don't know, honestly. I think there is a man may factor, but you're saying,
of course, that big solar output would destroy most technology. So I guess the question is,
is there a way we could prevent that or some insurance to protect ourselves and our technology?
I mean, of course, George Norrie's talked about this a lot on his background.
There's nothing we can do to stop the sun from doing whatever it wants to do,
except maybe pray to the sun and ask it to be kind and gentle to us. And I'm not even joking
about that. I'm serious about that. It's a digression, but there's plenty of evidence that
stars may be conscious entities in their own right. The Egyptians actually believe that we
become stars. And I think they were talking more than metaphorically. But that's another subject,
maybe at the conference we can talk about things like that. That would be very exciting. I think
that's the future. Of course, there's a lot of ET stuff. We'll bring that back to what
we can do. But classically, we can do things to harden our system. What that means is to
protect it from geomaniac storms, from solar outbursts, from plasma charges, that type of thing.
But the problem in part is, and one way to do it is to go underground, frankly, to be underground
and with 10 meters of rock above you, that will do a lot to protect hardware. We'll do a lot to
protect things. But we can't put our whole society underground. I have no doubt governments around
the world, they're aware of what's going on. Obama even did an executive order about this
quietly, one of his last executive orders. And they're preparing. But the average person,
what can the average person do? That's a really difficult question. You can't just have your
cave five hours away from you because how are you going to get to it in time, even if you know
that it's coming. And we may only have hours or a couple of days advanced notice if it's picked
up before it hits. If you have a solar, some of the major flares and whatnot, they'll essentially
act as an EMP, electromagnetic pulse. They'll knock out computers. Most cars nowadays are
computers on wheels effectively. They're computer system, electronic components in the car go.
You're not even going to start your car. So it's a real little situation. When you've got all these
huge grid lines, electrical grid system, that axis antenna that picks up the electrons passing
by induces, and magnetic fields passing by and induces electric currents in them over
power transformers, which then blow, which you can't just replace at the moment,
huge transformers, high voltage transformers. We have really boxed ourselves into a corner,
frankly, as a society. I don't mean to sound negative, but you asked me the question.
Not negative. It's like, you know, if there's a situation, but maybe the more
third world countries, the less developed countries, might have an even better chance of
maintaining their stability, right? They absolutely will. They absolutely will.
I'll give you a quick quick analogy to that. It's not, I don't want to call it third world country
at all, Romania. But I think in my wife and I, we were in Romania at one point, doing some research
and whatnot. And we were up in the Carpathian Mountains, beautiful in Transylvania,
really beautiful area. But you have people there who are living and I'm not making fun of them.
I'm saying this in a complimentary fashion, they still know how to live off the land.
They still know how to use an outhouse. They still know how to pump water from a well.
They have caves near them that they can retreat to if they want to. Yes, they have their satellite
dish and they have their generator to have modern electricity. But frankly, if that goes,
they know how to live and they can be self-sufficient. Now, you know, I live in Boston.
No one's self-sufficient here. Electricity goes, some people in, well, maybe not so much
Boston, but certainly New York. Some people, electricity goes, some people couldn't even get
up and down the skyscrapers. You know, much like anything else. Would our cell phones be
no, they'll all be gone. They'll be among the first to go. They will be fried in the whole
communication system. We'll be gone. So, there'll be mass panic too because no one will be able to
contact anyone properly. So, do you, what, I mean, not to be negative or anything, but what
could a solar flare like that happen any day, like any time? Or is there a very bump in cycle?
No, it could happen. It's probably building up. I mean, no one expected the Carrington
event in 1859 to all of a sudden happen. They saw the solar flare, which comes in, you know,
when you see it, it happened eight minutes ago because that's how long it takes for the light
to travel to Earth. And then the coronal mass ejections hit after that. Now this 1859, it was
relatively minor in terms of the effects on civilization because in 1859, the height of
electrical technology was the telegraph system. And it overpowered the telegraph system, burnt
down some of the telegraph stations. And some very wealthy people were probably very upset that
their messages did not get through and maybe they couldn't place their stock bids or whatever on
the stock market. But the average person didn't make any difference. Think about today though,
we're not in that situation. The average person has their smartphone. The average person uses
electricity, etc. etc. So in this day and age, the average person, at least in our
developed society, is going to be hit very hard and will not know what will be virtually helpless.
And you know, if you have your can of beans and rice, you might not even have a way to cook the rice.
So I really don't want to sound negative, but I know.
I know you're not. It's just talking about history.
The best thing I think to prepare for this is to be talking about and dealing with it and thinking
about it because I'm a big one for that. You know, that's what we need to do now and we need to
build communities. We need to build societies of people that are getting prepared for this.
And we need to go to a different type of technology. So I'll give you one more example.
Nuclear power. What's going to happen during major solar efforts? You're going to cut off power
to nuclear power plants. Now that sounds ironic because they generate power, but they need to be
on the grid system. They need to be cooled consistently. They need to be operating properly. You
don't want Fukushima's around the world spewing out radiation. So if they're not being cooled,
what happened? They melt down. Basically, they start leaking. We saw this in Fukushima recently.
We saw this earlier Chernobyl and Tremelau Island. Sometimes the term that's used is a progress
trap. We've made incredible technological progress, but it's also trapped us into certain ways of
behaving and thinking and certain vulnerabilities to natural events that frankly in the long run
are inevitable. And human seem to have this hubris, this attitude that we're invincible,
but we're not. I want to get back to one point. I think something that's really important
and maybe coming out, we can talk about this at the conference and prepare at the conference,
is to have communities of people together there thinking about this. And I think also part of it
is to be prepared, and I don't want to sound corny, but be prepared philosophically and spiritually.
Sometimes the best defense is to at least have thought about things ahead time and to
be prepared mentally, spiritually, philosophically, if that makes sense.
No, it totally makes sense. I think that's why a conference like this, the one we're talking about
is in October the Portal to Ascension Conference, go to AscensionConference.com, where a lot of
speakers present a sort of spiritual, philosophical mindset for dealing with the sort of changes that
are possible. And I think we need both. I think we need that. And I think we also need
realism as to what really has happened in the past, what really can happen in the future.
So sometimes I get, and I'll be honest, I'll get frustrated with people because it's all the
spirituality. And there's nothing wrong with that, except there is something wrong when you don't
tie it to real life, into real events, into real past, the real potential future. But then
you can go the opposite way where, oh, it's all hopeless and we're all going to die and there's
nothing beyond. Do you see what I mean? I think we need a balance. And I think,
back to the ancient Egyptians in John Anthony West in Symbolist Egypt, something that Schwalder
talked about in the key term he used translate into English is sacred science, finding the science
and the spirituality together as a whole. What's, I'm just curious, I think we're almost at a time,
but what has been the history of those types of solar events? Like how often does it happen?
Every 12th, I think you mentioned. Yeah, major ones, I would say about every 12,000 or so years
from what I can reconstruct, and then minor ones in between, smaller things in between.
It's a bit erratic, we don't know for certain. I suspect that the 1859 Carrington event and some
other events since then, for instance, there was a Quebec event in the late 80s that actually
caused a major blackout for millions of people. There's been other events since then. I think
the sun, yeah, solar flannel, yeah. And so these things have real ramifications.
And I think what we're seeing right now is that the sun is going into, or has gone into,
one of its erratic periods, one of its unstable periods. So we should not close our eyes to this.
We should realize that things that are happening, and there's the potential there, and we bear
preparing all levels. Is it possible that we could develop an electrical system that wouldn't
be affected by a solar flare? No, I think that's virtually impossible. I mean, you'd have, yeah,
I mean, okay, let me back up. If you want to put it all underground under 10 meters of rock,
something like that, maybe you'd have a chance. But, you know, I'm realistically, that's not
happening. I mean, you have things just low in the ground that they have buried cables,
that type of thing, that's not going to help. I was going to mention things like pipelines.
Was it the XL pipeline, that type of thing? That's going to act as a big cable. It's going to
act like a big wire. Plus it's got, you know, gas in it, whether it's liquefied natural gas or
whatnot. I mean, the whole thing could explode. We're going to laugh, but we are at technology,
because we have not thought about these things. And we've just, I tell my students sometimes,
since I teach at Boston University, every day, literally, our society is more and more vulnerable
to these things, not less vulnerable. And we've made ourselves put ourselves in a situation,
very precarious situation. Collected. And that's why we need to have these discussions and start
thinking about alternatives, the sooner the better. Would zero point energy, let's say everyone
had a way to create an energy? That could have some possibilities. That, I think,
I have some possibilities. But again, it depends on how you harness it, because if you use that
simply to generate electricity again, then you've got some of the same vulnerabilities.
So if you're using that to just run your conventional electrical grid,
more or less using it the same way you might use nuclear power to run a conventional electrical
grid, you've still got all the same problems. So we really have to have things that are
really poor minutes left. Okay, four minutes left. So that's been, this has been incredibly
informative and historic. And where is this major focus of your work now, or where's your work taking
you at this moment? Yeah, this is one of the folk eye of my work, focuses of my work,
because I think we do need to be looking at the future. But I'm also looking at the past. I am one
of these people that believes wholeheartedly, it's super to me really interesting to look at the past
for its own sake. And it's just interesting. But I think it's a lot more than that. I think we look
at the past to learn and not just learn what did they do bad or what did they do wrong and how
they were devastated and how do we avoid that. But I think we also look at the past to learn what
they knew that we didn't know what messages they left for us if you want to put it that way.
I'm absolutely convinced that the deep ancients and even the recent ancients, why I say reach
and seek people three, four thousand years ago had insights, whether it was spiritual, philosophical,
I've no doubt that spiritual and philosophical insights that are useful to us today, that are
important to us today. They had technological insights. And I think they had technological
insights and abilities too. I mean, you go back to where we started, I think in part of this
conversation, how did they build the great pyramid? How did they build this Sphinx temple
in 10,000 BC, the Sphinx temple, the Corbett is built out of limestone blocks that weigh up to
50 or 100 tons of peace. How did they move them around with incredible tolerances? So you're
talking not just spiritual knowledge, you're talking technological knowledge.
Right. No, it's very exciting. So I mean, your work is really a bridge to our alternative
culture, the people who are promoting ideas that there has been an alternative civilization that
that the quackadamics as a tribute to Southwest don't really talk about. We've been given false
information and I think this is part of what will be shared at the portal to Ascension conference.
That is October 5th, 6th and 7th at the H.U.M. Hotel in Irvine, California. Go to ascensionconference.com.
And then Robert, where are you going to be speaking? How can people find you?
The best thing is to go to my website. Again, www.robertchock and that's S-C-H-O-C-H. So
www.robertchockalloneword.com. Go to my website and we, when I say we, Katie, my wife and I,
post everything on that. People can send me a quick email. If they would like to be put on
the mailing list, just go to the contact page and you'll see my email there. If people are
interested in game schedules of speaking or tours, that type of thing, that's really the best way to
do it. And you really did create the world of geo-archaeology, haven't you?
Thank you. Yeah, I agree with that.
And then of course, go back to Tapi. That's a whole other show. That's a whole other thing.
And I do plan to talk about this at the conference, but that's something we didn't even really get to.
Tell people what go back to Tapi is. It's an ancient civilization they found in Turkey,
but what is it significant? Oh, the significance is it's incredibly sophisticated, just like this,
what we have in Egypt. And there's no doubt it goes back to before the end of the last
ice age. So circa 10,000 BC. Which is again, pushes human civilization that leads to 5,000 or 10,000
years. Exactly, exactly. When I was first working on the Sphinx, just to wrap up here,
something that they said to me, my academic critics in the early 1990s was, well, what you're
saying is correct, show us another site, another place where you have incredible sophistication
at such an early date. Quebec-Litepe had not yet been discovered. Of course, you always have to
have a first discovery. I'll say that with the sphinx. Since then, Quebec-Litepe has been
discovered and absolutely confirms what I've been talking about in terms of civilization
going back to a much more remote period. And I talked about that in forgotten civilization,
my book also. Oh, Vincent, talk into Robert Chock. We're going to go back to Tapi in the
Mysteries there, why it was buried at some point. But thank you, Robert, for being on this very
informative show. I'm Alan Steinfeld for new realities. You want to find me, go to my website,
newreality.com, my YouTube, YouTube.com slash New Reality. And definitely look up the work of
Robert Chock. And we'll see everyone at the Portal 2 Ascension Conference. Irvine, California,
go to AscensionConference.com. This is Portal 2 Ascension Radio sponsored and founded by Neil
Gore. Thank you for listening today.