[00:00] Speaker 1: (Upbeat music playing) Do you remember her? Ah. There was a time she stood so tall. A shining light above us all. Now we rise. Whoo! Yeah, we stand again. Bring her back to life. Let her spirit rise again. Look at y'all. Hear the call.

[00:40] Speaker 2: Good day, everybody. This is Charm, your host. Thanks for joining us. I have the privilege and honor of, um, doing our first show today with, um, my co-host, Lucky. Um, just to share a little bit about, um, how we ended up here and why we're here talking to everyone. I had the pleasure of meeting Lucky not too long ago. And he shared, um, an event that occurred about maybe six years ago. And I was very intrigued, and I feel, uh, he has information to, um, share with everyone. And so, I'm very honored and privileged to have, um, met this individual. Um, in short, what happened, uh, he was arrested, uh, about six years ago. Just so happens it was, um, the same day as, um, our president declared a national emergency for COVID, just by coincidence. And, um, I'll have him, uh, share what happened, but he was arrested for, um, carrying concealed, uh, weapons.

[01:59] Speaker 3: Concealed weapons.

[02:00] Speaker 2: Concealed weapons, and, um-

[02:01] Speaker 3: They call them assault rifles.

[02:03] Speaker 2: ... assault rifles.

[02:04] Speaker 3: And, uh, firecrackers.

[02:06] Speaker 2: Yeah. (laughs)

[02:06] Speaker 3: They called them explosives and pipe bombs-

[02:08] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[02:09] Speaker 3: ... in the report.

[02:11] Speaker 2: And so, that case is still ongoing, and, um, we're going to, uh, uh, he's- I'm gonna have him explain exactly what happened. Yeah, he's an incredible, incredible, incredible person. I've had the pleasure of really getting to know him, and I'm so absolutely beyond honored to do this, uh, with, um, none other than Lucky. Lucky, please introduce yourself to our audience.

[02:38] Speaker 3: All right. Lucky, and, uh, I met Charm, you know, like she said, recently. And, uh, we kind of started talking about the, uh, you know, the legal system and how, how twisted it is. So, what happened with me was I was driving, and I had my, uh, arms with me, and they were locked up, you know, like they're supposed to be. And, um, so, long story short, I got nine felony charges for manufacturing, transporting, and, uh, carrying these, uh, these weapons. And, um, you know, I'm sure a lot of people wanna know how, how the legislature can pass these laws that are clearly unconstitutional, especially when the Constitution is written in such unambiguous terms.

[03:43] Speaker 3: And, um, so that's, that's what the genesis of my, uh, research and leading down the rabbit holes of the legal system and the history of our legal system, and how we got so far from, you know, the, the God-given rights or the natural rights we're born with, and where we are now when the administrative policies and taxes just choke the people and, uh, put them in jail, in prison for all those things. And so, the main point I want to make is that, uh, the definition of a crime in Black's Law is when there's been an injured party. And so, that's my, that's my major sticking point. So, that's how I got started on all these rabbit holes. And of course, one thing always leads to another. There's about nine different rabbit holes you can go down with money and, and, uh, legal systems, statutes, codes, and regulations. Notice, none of those things are called laws. So, that's a big deal. And they, they even told me in court that we don't use common law anymore, which is an outright lie.

[05:12] Speaker 3: Common law is the natural law. Like, don't cause any harm. Cause no harm. So, that's kind of where it started from.

[05:25] Speaker 2: Great. Um, you know, so one of the things that, you know, someone might be listening might be, you know, why, knowing the law, why would you have that kind of stuff on you and risk getting pulled over or getting arrested for it?

[05:42] Speaker 3: Well, because the- I thought that I had a good rapport with the local law enforcement, you know, because I'd been pulled over before with similar arms and guns in my vehicle, and they just were like, "We don't care." But just as- just so happened, you know, the day I was pulled over was Friday, March 13th.... 2020. And it was Friday the 13th, which we just-

[06:13] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[06:15] Speaker 3: ... had, uh, last month in March. We had another Friday the 13th. And so, you know, I'm a little bit superstitious about that now-

[06:24] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[06:25] Speaker 3: ... for some reason. But it definitely changed my life. And, uh, yeah.

[06:32] Speaker 4: So have you been, um, uh, would you say, in the legal battle with the court system for the past six years? And what's it done to you, just-

[06:42] Speaker 3: Yeah. So one thing I realized is that when you hire a lawyer, you know, they're bar card attorneys, and, um, they're, they're, they're just there to make a deal. They're actually officers of the court, just like the judge, the prosecutor. They're all on the same team. Like, when you take... I learned when a lawyer takes the bar, they pledge their loyalty, first to the court, and second to the, the administration. I guess that might be the same thing. And then the person they're representing is last on the list. And so I fired three lawyers, because, you know, all of, uh, all of those lawyers indicated that I would be in prison. And again, I wanna say there's no injured party. There's no criminal intent, which is, in Latin, is mens rea. But, uh, you know, there was none of that present. But they wanted me, they want me to go to prison for three years, or whatever it is, for exercising my God-given and natural rights to ha- have something to protect myself.

[08:04] Speaker 4: You know, one of the... I'm not very well-informed with the legal s- s-, you know, and the Constitution, I understand a little bit, but w- something I've always wondered is, why is it, um, you know, we're either gonna follow the Constitution or we're not? So, uh, uh, can you help shed some light on that? 'Cause it's okay here, but it's not okay in another state. I just don't understand that.

[08:30] Speaker 3: Well, then, wh- yeah. So, that's a good question. California and Arizona s- gives a good, um, a good reflection of the difference, right? 'Cause in Arizona, you can conceal carry or open carry with impunity. No, no license needed.

[08:54] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[08:55] Speaker 3: And you can go into a gun store and buy an AR-15 with a standard capacity magazine, which is 30 rounds, with no problems, you know. I think there might be a background check. I've never bought one in Arizona, because I'm not a resident there, which is a tricky word. I'm actually not a resident anywhere. Come to find out, if you really look at the definitions of words, terms and phrases, you'll find out that you don't know what any of these words that they use actually mean-

[09:33] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[09:34] Speaker 3: ... pursuant to the code, statutes and regulations.

[09:39] Speaker 4: So, thanks for explaining that. Um, what are you hoping to gain from speaking out on a sh- on a show like this?

[09:50] Speaker 3: Well, I hope I can reach other people who, you know, have had the same experience, or even just ask themselves the same question, "How can the government do this to me?" You know, "I'm a good person. I don't hurt anybody. How can they have so much control of my life?"

[10:10] Speaker 4: Hmm.

[10:11] Speaker 3: 'Cause that's what it's all about. And you're, I think, to dial in on your question about the Constitution more, is that the Constitution was designed to control the government, not to control the people.

[10:26] Speaker 4: Hmm.

[10:27] Speaker 3: You know? And, uh, it's highly effective. So they have, you know, there were very clever bankers and politicians got together to create a new government after the Civil War, during the Organic Act of 1871, and the Reformation Act. And all those things is when we transformed from a republic that was governed by the people, into what we have now, the democracy that is, uh, governed by the gov- you know, the, the government, the powers that be, the owners. You know, the government isn't even the powers that be. The people that own the government own everything else.

[11:16] Speaker 4: Right.

[11:17] Speaker 3: You know?

[11:17] Speaker 4: Right, right, absolutely.

[11:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[11:20] Speaker 4: So this has caused a lot of, um... And I know you're an extremely busy man, and thank you for doing this with us today-

[11:27] Speaker 3: Absolutely.

[11:27] Speaker 4: ... 'cause I feel like it's important. Um, but this has caused a lot of, um, distress for you, hasn't it?

[11:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, it has.

[11:35] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[11:35] Speaker 3: It's caused a lot of distress for myself, my family, you know. I mean, just for that no injured party, I had at least 60 uniformed police and sheriff-

[11:53] Speaker 4: Mm.

[11:53] Speaker 3: ... and the SWAT team.

[11:55] Speaker 4: Wow.

[11:56] Speaker 3: I mean, it was unreal. There was like 30 black vehicles at my house, with trailers. There was the bomb squad from Fresno came to help 'em out with my firecrackers. It's like, holy crap, you guys have anything better to do? Are you trying to make an example of me?I mean, I'm just Joe from Kokomo. I'm not anybody. But they sure wanted to take my guns, which they did. They took all my guns except one 9 millimeter that they, they said came back registered to me, which was a, was a complete lie, because there were at least a half a dozen other guns that were registered to me. Now, that's another word you probably don't know what it means, registration. You know, you, you gotta understand the words if you wanna understand what's, what's happened to our republic.

[12:53] Speaker 4: Do you feel like you're being targeted?

[12:56] Speaker 3: Sometimes.

[12:56] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[12:57] Speaker 3: Yeah. But if I was being targeted, I think they would mess with me-

[13:02] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[13:02] Speaker 3: ... a lot more.

[13:05] Speaker 4: So, um-

[13:07] Speaker 3: Let me know.

[13:08] Speaker 4: ... uh, you know, um, just to reiterate, you don't have a criminal background for them to have ever be concerned that you were gonna-

[13:19] Speaker 3: Right.

[13:19] Speaker 4: ... um, be a threat to society, right?

[13:22] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[13:23] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[13:23] Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the Highway Patrol even said, "Do you have someone to call to come pick you up?" 'Cause I was driving on a ex- uh, suspended license.

[13:34] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[13:34] Speaker 3: And I was suspended because of some complications I had with the DUI that I got a few years prior.

[13:41] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[13:42] Speaker 3: And so, that's why I had a suspended license.

[13:46] Speaker 4: Okay.

[13:46] Speaker 3: But the details of that are a whole different story that is pretty bizarre anyway. (laughs)

[13:52] Speaker 4: Right.

[13:52] Speaker 3: I could have had a valid license at the time.

[13:56] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. But it's still not really a crime or a threat to-

[14:00] Speaker 3: Right, it's not a threat.

[14:02] Speaker 4: ... society. I mean, it's not a threat.

[14:03] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[14:04] Speaker 4: Got it. So what, what's next for you in the-

[14:08] Speaker 3: What's next for me, well, um, what I really need to do is get off my butt and, uh, put together the paperwork I need to litigate and hold the officers who arrested me and the, uh, the prosecuting attorney responsible. Because after studying, I learned that what they did was they did not abide by the due process clause, you know, and, uh, they took my property, and they took me against my will, and, uh, interrogated me. And I was cooperative, you know.

[14:57] Speaker 3: On the stand, they said, "Did he seem like a threat?" Uh, and, you know, the arresting officer said, "No, he wasn't threatening."

[15:09] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[15:10] Speaker 3: But, uh, just because they found the, uh, you know, the semiautomatic weapon with a detachable magazine and, uh, some firecrackers in my car, I mean, they called 'em pipe bombs.

[15:29] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[15:30] Speaker 3: There, there's a com- a big difference between pipe bombs and firecrackers.

[15:37] Speaker 4: Interesting.

[15:38] Speaker 3: So...

[15:40] Speaker 4: So what do you, or how would you respond if someone were to say, "Look, Lucky, just move on. Let it go. This is just gonna be a headache. It is what it is. That's the law. You don't like it, leave California. Go somewhere where you can carry your gun."

[16:01] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[16:01] Speaker 4: "Just let it go. It's not worth the fight." What would you say to that?

[16:06] Speaker 3: Well, was it worth the fight for the Founding Fathers to give their middle finger to, you know, Great Britain and England, who were taxing 'em? I mean, it was, like, what was it, three cents?

[16:23] Speaker 4: Right.

[16:23] Speaker 3: ... of tea, of tax on tea-

[16:25] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[16:25] Speaker 3: ... that caused the Boston Tea Party?

[16:28] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[16:29] Speaker 3: And, um, you know, these men that, uh, did that swore an oath, their lives, their fortune, and, what, their sacred honor, to, uh, band together to repel the forces of Great Britain and the tyranny. If you read the Declaration of Independence, it, you know, that's a legal document. It's a lawful document. And it, that's where our sovereignty comes from, and, uh, they, you know, they wanted to, each man to be sovereign.

[17:13] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[17:14] Speaker 3: And so, you know, I know a lot of people that pay thousands and thousands of dollars in taxes that are too afraid to do anything about it. And that's a lot of 'em, almost everybody.

[17:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, no kidding.

[17:29] Speaker 3: So is it worth the fight? Yeah, it is. I mean, we live in California. My, my family wants me to move to Arizona. They say, "Why don't you move to America, where it's a free land?"

[17:42] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[17:43] Speaker 3: And I said, you know, it's, it's very tempting, but Arizona, compared to here in California, is a very inhospitable climate. (laughs)

[17:53] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[17:54] Speaker 3: And I don't wanna live there.

[17:56] Speaker 4: No, yeah, you should be able to wanna live wherever you wanna live.

[17:59] Speaker 3: And-

[18:00] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[18:00] Speaker 3: ... the, to run away would be to abandon my home and leave it to the tyrants to just do what they want with it. So, you know, that's a big reason. Yeah, it's, it's definitely worth the fight, because I'm not the only person that feels this way.

[18:21] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[18:22] Speaker 3: Person, that's another word you don't know what it means.So...

[18:28] Speaker 4: So, this isn't just about you, is what I'm hearing. It's-

[18:31] Speaker 3: No.

[18:32] Speaker 4: This is something you're passionate about-

[18:35] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[18:35] Speaker 4: ... wanting to, um... It's about America, basically.

[18:40] Speaker 3: Well, look at the countries that don't allow the citizens there the means to protect themselves. Right? They, it's a monopoly on the means of violence. That's what they want. That's what the people want, and they want it to be in the whole country, and they wanted it started in California, because Califor- nia was where a lot of things started, and eventually they happened in, uh, the rest of the country.

[19:10] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[19:11] Speaker 3: And, um, we really need to stop that. And that's why in, uh, the year after I was arrested, and it was, I think it was before I fired the first lawyer, I started a chapter of the California Rifle and Pistol Association.

[19:29] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[19:30] Speaker 3: And I had success, and then the treasurer started a chapter in a neighboring, uh, city. And then, you know, some more chapters came up. So, that was a really good thing, I think. And, um, the Ninth Circuit and California are getting decimated in the Supreme Court with regard to their gun laws, because they're obviously way beyond the pale in terms of constitutionality. And calling certain things not a weapon that's covered by the Second Amendment or, you know, whatever they want.

[20:11] Speaker 4: So, what, what... The Constitution, I don't, I'm not real, like, uh, I don't know it by heart, but does it actually say we have the right to bear arms? Is that what-

[20:18] Speaker 3: Mm-mm.

[20:19] Speaker 4: ... part of it?

[20:19] Speaker 3: Yeah. We have the right to keep and bear arms.

[20:22] Speaker 4: But not in California?

[20:23] Speaker 3: Well, that's what, that's one of the things-

[20:25] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[20:26] Speaker 3: As I was, they were hauling me to the substation in a highway patrol car, I said, well... They were talking and they, I said, "Well, I have a constitutional right..." And he said, I remember his name too, uh, he said, uh, "Well, not in California, you don't."

[20:44] Speaker 4: Wow. Mm-hmm.

[20:45] Speaker 3: You know? And so, th- they-

[20:48] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[20:48] Speaker 3: ... just admitted that the state law doesn't conform to the federal law, which, you know, there's a supremacy clause in the Constitution that says this is the supreme law of the land. And anything that is, uh, abhorrent to the Constitution is null and void. And so, you know, it'll take, uh, more than just a couple people to, uh, stand up and-

[21:20] Speaker 4: Right.

[21:21] Speaker 3: ... help do something.

[21:21] Speaker 4: Like we, we either have a Constitution or we don't.

[21:24] Speaker 3: Right.

[21:24] Speaker 4: I, it's just-

[21:25] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[21:25] Speaker 4: It's just the way of the world.

[21:25] Speaker 3: We either have natural rights or we don't.

[21:27] Speaker 4: Or we don't. Just, if we don't, tell us. That's fine. But, so, wow. Um-

[21:33] Speaker 3: And so-

[21:34] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[21:34] Speaker 3: ... that's, you know, I've told you before, I was the kid that would not, um, stand up and do the Pledge of Allegiance, because, you know, that's a First Amendment situation.

[21:46] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[21:47] Speaker 3: You know? You have the right to talk or not talk. So, and they tried to force me, and after a big fight, they said, "Okay, you don't have to do it." But then I did it. I, I said the-

[22:00] Speaker 4: Right, you, you just told me-

[22:00] Speaker 3: ... Pledge of Allegiance.

[22:02] Speaker 4: (laughs) Don't tell me what to do. (laughs)

[22:05] Speaker 3: Right. Like, do we... Are we in America or are we, you know, Cuba?

[22:11] Speaker 4: That's r- ex- that's, that's, that's been my, um, challenge and no, no one's able to answer this. Like, is it, is it America or is it not?

[22:20] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[22:20] Speaker 4: Can I get ar- arrested in America for this or not? It's either yes or no. But it's confusing.

[22:28] Speaker 3: Yeah. It's confusing.

[22:29] Speaker 4: So bizarre.

[22:30] Speaker 3: And to touch on your question about, you know, constitutionality of California gun laws and Arizona gun laws, both states are covered by the Ninth Circuit, but nobody in Arizona wants to usurp the rights of the people, like-

[22:50] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[22:51] Speaker 3: So, no gun cases come out of Arizona or Nevada.

[22:56] Speaker 4: Right.

[22:57] Speaker 3: They come out of Oregon and Washington, but they don't come out of Alaska-

[23:02] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[23:03] Speaker 3: ... or Idaho.

[23:04] Speaker 4: It's pretty amazing. Like, if I was a, um-

[23:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, they're all covered. That's an interesting dynamic.

[23:10] Speaker 4: It's unbelievable.

[23:12] Speaker 3: The Ninth Circuit covers Arizona, but Arizona has a very liberal stance on carrying.

[23:21] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. So, 50 states-

[23:24] Speaker 3: Fa-

[23:24] Speaker 4: ... 50 different laws. Correct?

[23:27] Speaker 3: Well, it depends on the state.

[23:29] Speaker 4: Almost?

[23:29] Speaker 3: You know, the state always leans on the fact that they can create their own laws. Well, yeah, you can, but not if they're abhorrent to the Constitution.

[23:40] Speaker 4: Again, it's, it's either America or it's not.

[23:42] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

[23:44] Speaker 4: Wow. This is, um, you know, I think it's a lot bigger than people, um, can comprehend right now. I think it's be- it's just, people have accepted it. They've kind of become numb to it, like, "Well, this is how it is."

[23:59] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[24:00] Speaker 4: You know? We, that, that is what it is.

[24:02] Speaker 3: That's a big part of it.

[24:03] Speaker 4: They've just become so complacent, but for, if I were visiting here from another country, I'd be weirded out. Like, "What do you mean it's legal here?" It's not legal. Is this America? Am I in America or not?"

[24:15] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[24:17] Speaker 4: And, you know? What if you were traveling here and you don't know the gun law? What, are you supposed to read the laws of every state that you travel to?

[24:24] Speaker 3: Yeah. You say, uh-

[24:26] Speaker 4: So bizarre.

[24:26] Speaker 3: ... people are complacent and they say, "This is the way it is," they actually purchase, uh, you know-...the traveler's guide for the gun laws, you know-

[24:36] Speaker 5: Oh, wow.

[24:36] Speaker 3: ...people that carry a gun, and they come out. And it's, you know, uh, they come out with one every year-

[24:43] Speaker 5: Uh-huh.

[24:44] Speaker 3: ...because the gun laws change.

[24:45] Speaker 5: Wow.

[24:46] Speaker 3: They update every year. So every year, you have to buy, so it's m- you know, more money you gotta spend to be able to exercise a right.

[24:55] Speaker 5: That's amazing. Mm-hmm.

[24:57] Speaker 3: The whole reason for the right-

[25:00] Speaker 5: Everything, yeah.

[25:00] Speaker 3: ...and so that you don't have to-

[25:02] Speaker 5: Wow.

[25:03] Speaker 3: ...be restricted.

[25:07] Speaker 5: So back to what, how do we, what do we do? Do we, are you, are you planning, uh, h- how do we solve this?

[25:18] Speaker 3: Well, every person has to stand on their rights, and every person has to realize that they're not a person at all.

[25:26] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[25:27] Speaker 3: And the legal definition of a person, I think it's United States Code Chapter 28, Chapter 3001, that under Definition 10 says a person is, it says a natural person, but even that is, definition is convoluted because it says a person is, uh, an enterprise or a business or a partnership or all these things. It says a p- as a person, but it doesn't say that a man or woman is a person. Only men and women have rights, and only men and women can stand on their rights. And that's a really important thing I found out.

[26:12] Speaker 3: During my arraignment, the judge was very clear when he said, "Are you the person named on the document that is in all capital letters?"

[26:25] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[26:25] Speaker 3: "Is that you? And do you understand the charges?" And I got the same kind of feeling on the day that I was arrested when my coffee cup broke. I had this feeling of like, "Uh-oh, you know, something is gonna happen." And what happened during that arraignment is they tricked me into saying that I was a ens leges, which is a Latin term that means a creature of the law or a corporate fiction-

[26:57] Speaker 5: Hmm.

[26:58] Speaker 3: ...or a sole proprietorship.

[27:01] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

[27:02] Speaker 3: So that's what happens is everybody says, "Yes, I'm this person that the government has created with a birth certificate, and, um, you're not a, a real man or woman-"

[27:16] Speaker 5: Hmm.

[27:17] Speaker 3: "...'cause only men and women have rights to people."

[27:20] Speaker 5: Isn't that amazing?

[27:21] Speaker 3: And so-

[27:22] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[27:22] Speaker 3: ...you, you mistakenly contract with the administration, which is the government, which is a corporation. You contract with the corporation, you contract away your rights. But you don't know it because the corporation educates you, you know, the state educates you and tells you you have to have a driver's license, and you are this person, and you have to pay taxes and you have to do all these things that everybody does in society because we all agreed to it. And that's the thing.

[27:59] Speaker 3: We all agreed-

[28:00] Speaker 5: Exactly.

[28:01] Speaker 3: ...to give our rights away.

[28:02] Speaker 5: Exactly. Yeah.

[28:03] Speaker 3: But we didn't know it.

[28:04] Speaker 5: Exactly, yeah.

[28:05] Speaker 3: And so as I'm going through this whole process, there's things that start firing in my memory, like when, uh, I started filing taxes, I, you know, they have a, an I-9 form or something that, that says, uh, "Are you a, a, uh, resident alien, a nonresident alien, or other?" So I wanted to know what a resident alien was, and I looked it up, and it had all the, uh, it, it was about five lines, and it said something to the effect of that you're a person who, for tax purposes, resides in the District of Columbia.

[28:49] Speaker 3: And I was like, "Well, that's not me." And so then I looked at the definition, and this is in the IRS publications-

[28:56] Speaker 5: Uh-huh.

[28:56] Speaker 3: ...where I got these definitions. And, uh, the nonresident alien, you know, was a longer definition and more confusing. And I said, "Well, I'm not that either." And then I looked at the definition of other, and it was about three pages.

[29:13] Speaker 5: Wow.

[29:13] Speaker 3: And I was, you know, 17, 18, just getting into the workforce. I didn't want to read all that, so I asked my uncle who was a tax preparer, and, you know, my f- my folks were CPAs, and so they always told me little things like taxes are voluntary and it's only a estimate anyway, and some of these things that they used to do, it's not like that anymore. But I said, well, I asked him, "Which one am I supposed to pick?" And he said, "You, well, you're a resident alien.

[29:45] Speaker 3: You live here, don't you?" And I was like, "Yeah, but this definition says that I live in the District of Columbia."

[29:51] Speaker 5: That's amazing.

[29:51] Speaker 3: "I've never been there."

[29:53] Speaker 5: Right.

[29:53] Speaker 3: You know? And, uh-

[29:55] Speaker 5: That's amazing.

[29:57] Speaker 3: After a little bit of back and forth, I just marked it and went along to get along, right?

[30:02] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[30:03] Speaker 3: And forgot about it for a while. But then, but then, you know, I started a business with yard work and stuff like that, and so I wanted to get a business license, right? Keep in mind, a license is something that allows you to do something that would otherwise be illegal.

[30:24] Speaker 5: Mm, mm, mm.

[30:25] Speaker 3: So I went to get this business license, and I had a catchy little phrase I wanted to use, and they said, "Okay, so you wanna create, uh, a fiction, a fictitious entity."... and I said, "I guess so. What does that mean?" You know? And they kind of told me, uh, "You make up this name," and that cost a extra $75 to register that name.

[30:51] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[30:51] Speaker 3: Right? And I was like, "Well-"

[30:55] Speaker 4: Oh, god.

[30:55] Speaker 3: "... what about this?" And they said, "Well, you can use the, the business that the state already made for you-"

[31:03] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[31:04] Speaker 3: "... which is your name, in all capital letters, that's a, that's a actual business that you can use. If you use that, it's already registered for you."

[31:13] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[31:14] Speaker 3: And I was... Same thing, I was... It was before I was 20, so I was like, you know, "I don't wanna... I just want it to be easy and cheap." So I just used my name, and, uh, but that's one of the things, as I'm chasing down these rabbit holes, these memories come up where people have told me, or I found out on my own that something doesn't make sense.

[31:37] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. Something's not quite right.

[31:41] Speaker 3: Yeah. So.

[31:44] Speaker 4: So you're, you're, um, you're pretty serious about this stuff, 'cause I know you also shared that you refused to pay your car registration, right?

[31:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, it turns out that that is a whole, a whole nother rabbit hole.

[31:59] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. (laughs)

[32:00] Speaker 3: You know?

[32:01] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[32:02] Speaker 3: Um, the registration is a voluntary program that they implemented in 1994, I think it was, like, September 9th or something-

[32:14] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[32:15] Speaker 3: ... in 1994, that they called it, in the, uh, Code of Federal Regulations, they called it the Vehicle Theft Prevention Program, which the, the attorneys general of each state will set up, and it will provide for, uh, the owners of a vehicle to sign a voluntary consent form, in which they would affix a decal or a license plate, which sounds a lot like registering a vehicle.

[32:45] Speaker 4: Right.

[32:47] Speaker 3: And-

[32:47] Speaker 4: And h- how many years have you not paid for it? Just, if you don't mind me asking, just for the audio.

[32:51] Speaker 3: About two years, like-

[32:52] Speaker 4: Couple years.

[32:53] Speaker 3: ... three, four years.

[32:54] Speaker 4: Three, four years. Okay. You're-

[32:56] Speaker 3: And I p-

[32:56] Speaker 4: ... you're serious. (laughs)

[32:57] Speaker 3: I've been to court, you know, several times. The first three times-

[33:01] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[33:01] Speaker 3: ... they were dismissed, you know-

[33:04] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[33:04] Speaker 3: ... 'cause I gave them enough technicalities.

[33:07] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[33:08] Speaker 3: But they're tired of seeing me getting away with it, and, um, so they sent me to the Franchise Tax Board Collections. So that's another thing I have to deal with, legally. You know, because, uh, because in the code, uh, and I know what they're gonna say. They're gonna say, "Well, that's a federal code. This is the state."

[33:28] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[33:29] Speaker 3: And I, you know, I found the ca- s- the state, California Vehicle Code, also, that, uh, conforms to federal, uh, law. So I have that one. It's California Vehicle Code-

[33:43] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[33:44] Speaker 3: ... Section 260, under the definition of motor vehicle. (laughs) So.

[33:49] Speaker 4: So you're not just here to tell us stuff. You're actually, um, walking the talk. Is that pretty accurate?

[33:58] Speaker 3: Yeah. I, I am embarrassed a little bit because I took a plea deal on my gun charges.

[34:03] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[34:05] Speaker 3: But, uh, my intention is to, um, go after the court and, uh, there's a clause called, uh, void ab initio, and what it means is, if it, if it's unconstitutional, it's void from the beginning.

[34:25] Speaker 4: Mm.

[34:27] Speaker 3: So... But I have to set it all up so that I use their own codes and regulations against them.

[34:39] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[34:40] Speaker 3: You know, and it's... One thing I want to point out, it's, the California, the Franchise Tax Board is the taxing authority.

[34:48] Speaker 4: Right.

[34:48] Speaker 3: Why isn't it the People's Tax Board?

[34:51] Speaker 4: Mm.

[34:51] Speaker 3: Because that's who's paying the money.

[34:54] Speaker 4: Mm-mm.

[34:55] Speaker 3: They're only allowed to tax what they create.

[34:59] Speaker 4: Wow.

[34:59] Speaker 3: So that's why, eh, everybody has a birth certificate, and that's why it's registered with the state.

[35:05] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[35:07] Speaker 3: The birth certificate is actually articles of incorporation for a business.

[35:12] Speaker 4: Got it. Yeah. That, uh, that's definitely something I think more people have become aware of since COVID-

[35:17] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[35:18] Speaker 4: ... I would say.

[35:19] Speaker 3: Yeah. And the availability of information now, compared to, like, when I started filing taxes, you know, you can get any information anytime.

[35:31] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[35:32] Speaker 3: These little devices we carry around, um, you know, you can access almost anything that's available-

[35:40] Speaker 4: Right.

[35:41] Speaker 3: ... to... Any kind of information that's available to the smartest people.

[35:46] Speaker 4: So, is it fair to say that your goal here would be to educate-

[35:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, to get, like-

[35:54] Speaker 4: ... and-

[35:55] Speaker 3: ... like-minded people together.

[35:56] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[35:57] Speaker 3: To help people-

[35:58] Speaker 4: Col- uh-huh.

[36:00] Speaker 3: ... you know, see what they really are, that they're men and women, they're not persons.

[36:03] Speaker 4: Mm.

[36:04] Speaker 3: They're not slaves.

[36:06] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[36:07] Speaker 3: You know? A lot of the, uh, mortgage things, if you go down the rabbit hole of finances, that's a whole, that's a whole nother rabbit hole of different terms, words, and phrases, with definitions that you thought you knew. (laughs)

[36:24] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[36:24] Speaker 3: But you don't. And, uh, the definition of money, you know, lawful money, for example.

[36:30] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[36:32] Speaker 3: Lawful money is gold and silver coins, and it excludes paper, property, you know, all the things that-

[36:39] Speaker 4: Mm.

[36:40] Speaker 3: ... we use as currency.

[36:43] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[36:45] Speaker 3: Is, uh... Yeah, that's, that's-... that's my goal, is to reach out to more people that are interested in this topic. And I don't think it's for everybody, uh, you know. True freedom isn't for everybody, you know? A lot of people want safety and, uh, convenience. (laughs)

[37:04] Speaker 4: That's true, right. Right, no, for sure.

[37:06] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[37:07] Speaker 4: I know another, um, thing that intrigued my interest in doing this with you was you mentioned, um, you talked about homesteading.

[37:17] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[37:18] Speaker 4: And, uh, you talked about allodial title and all that stuff. And I am fi- I'm a little familiar with it, but not many people are familiar with that.

[37:28] Speaker 3: Hons.

[37:29] Speaker 4: So, um, we definitely look forward to... I know you're working on that.

[37:35] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[37:35] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[37:36] Speaker 3: I am working on that. And, uh, it's interesting you say that, because I was visiting with my dad out in Arizona, and it was down on the- the border where there's all these ranches, you know?

[37:48] Speaker 4: Mm.

[37:49] Speaker 3: And he mentioned he- that one of his buddies was a rancher with thousands of acres. And, uh, he said, just off the cuff, you know, that that's patented land, and so nobody will go on it. The feds won't go on it, the local police-

[38:10] Speaker 4: Mm.

[38:10] Speaker 3: ... the fire department, any-

[38:12] Speaker 4: Wow.

[38:13] Speaker 3: ... kind of regulatory-

[38:14] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[38:15] Speaker 3: ... administration will not touch or go onto patented land, because it's truly private property.

[38:21] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[38:22] Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people want to ask, you know, "I bought this land, so why am I paying taxes on it?"

[38:29] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[38:29] Speaker 3: Well, you know, all these people that want a democracy and they do these No Kings protests, if they own property, they're paying land taxes, just like a serf or a, you know, a peasant would pay ta- taxes to the king. Right?

[38:50] Speaker 4: Mm...

[38:50] Speaker 3: So, we're paying... The king isn't a person. The king is a corporation.

[38:56] Speaker 4: Mm, mm-hmm.

[38:56] Speaker 3: And when people talk about corporate America, they- there's actually two corporate Americas. There's the corporate America that owns everything, and there's the corporation called The United States Inc., and that's the, uh... that's the government.

[39:18] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[39:18] Speaker 3: That's the administration.

[39:21] Speaker 4: So, we are paying the king-

[39:25] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[39:25] Speaker 4: ... in a way, aren't we?

[39:26] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. And they'll tell you-

[39:28] Speaker 4: That's so tricky, huh?

[39:29] Speaker 3: Yeah. So, we're not free. We're tax slaves, we're debt slaves, which is called usury, I think. Is that right, usury?

[39:41] Speaker 4: I think so. I'm not sure.

[39:43] Speaker 3: Charging money for a loan.

[39:46] Speaker 4: Mm.

[39:48] Speaker 3: But, uh, yeah, people are slaves to the debt they create.

[39:54] Speaker 4: So, you're, um... Again, going back to, uh, your intentions with this, is, uh, you're- y- you're walking the talk. Like-

[40:07] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[40:07] Speaker 4: ... you just, you won't pay your regist-

[40:09] Speaker 3: I-

[40:09] Speaker 4: You just won't.

[40:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to as much as I can.

[40:12] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[40:13] Speaker 3: But, you know, it's- it's tricky and it's deceptive. And the- the hell of it is, they have the guns. I mean, they have the guns and the backup to do whatever they want, you know?

[40:24] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[40:24] Speaker 3: And I'm- I'm s- I hate to say they, but, uh, it is them.

[40:28] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[40:29] Speaker 3: And, uh, you know?

[40:32] Speaker 4: They use fear tactics, huh?

[40:33] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. They absolutely do.

[40:38] Speaker 4: Pretty good at it.

[40:39] Speaker 3: Yeah. Like, when I made my plea deal, I was very clear. I said, "So- so, if I go to trial, then all the effort of the State of California and the county I live in are gonna be focused on proving me to be a criminal-"

[41:02] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[41:02] Speaker 3: "... and to put me in prison."

[41:04] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[41:05] Speaker 3: And they said, "Yes." And I'm in, you know, the courtroom-

[41:09] Speaker 4: Got to be.

[41:09] Speaker 3: ... just guarded by people with guns.

[41:10] Speaker 4: Wow.

[41:11] Speaker 3: And my lawyer is an officer of the court, the prosecutor's an officer of the court. All of the arresting officers and, you know, the bailiff, and they're all officers of the court. They're all on the same team.

[41:25] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[41:26] Speaker 3: I'm over here just by myself trying to figure out-

[41:30] Speaker 4: A peasant.

[41:31] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[41:33] Speaker 4: Forgive the...

[41:34] Speaker 3: And it's- it's debt, you know? They want you to pay the debt with time off your life in prison when there's no injured party, there's no, uh, there's no real man or woman that had a complaint. They say the people of the state versus so-and-so.

[41:58] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[41:59] Speaker 3: But it's not. It's the state. It's the state government versus whoever.

[42:05] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. So, it's not something we can really ignore, is it?

[42:09] Speaker 3: I don't think so.

[42:10] Speaker 4: Mm.

[42:11] Speaker 3: You know? But a lot of people, you know, like I said, they want comfort and, uh, safety. And I- I don't blame 'em. That's a pretty good deal.

[42:21] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[42:22] Speaker 3: But that's not what freedom is about. You know? The world's a dangerous place. Well, it can be dangerous or it can be nice, you know? Depends on what you do-

[42:35] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[42:35] Speaker 3: ... and how you manipulate your environment to be how you like it, or ignore it and let it go to hell.

[42:44] Speaker 4: (laughs) Wow. Um-So, in the future, would you say w-, um, I know, uh, that, uh, we're gonna have people calling in and maybe who have had similar experiences, and-

[42:59] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[42:59] Speaker 4: ... don't really have anyone to talk to about 'cause they're scared maybe, or-

[43:03] Speaker 3: Sure.

[43:04] Speaker 4: ... you know? Or they don't know what they're doing, or just whatever.

[43:08] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I'd like to get into some of these other rabbit holes in the future, like the creation of money. You know, inflation, that's why they went to paper money, is because gold is so hard to make more of.

[43:22] Speaker 4: Mm.

[43:23] Speaker 3: You can't really inflate it easily.

[43:25] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[43:26] Speaker 3: It's always gonna be the same value. But if they can devalue the money, that doesn't hurt the people that own everything. It only hurts the people that are trying to work for those dollars that are becoming more and more worthless as time goes on.

[43:43] Speaker 4: How do you feel about money?

[43:45] Speaker 3: Well, I hate money. But I like to make it, you know? Uh, you know, I'm always happier when I'm making more money 'cause I can have more freedom, right? (laughs)

[43:59] Speaker 4: Mm.

[44:00] Speaker 3: More money gives you more freedom to do what you want to do. But at the same time, money gives you freedom, and it gives you power. And then the more money you have, the more power you can leverage. And, uh, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[44:21] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[44:21] Speaker 3: So that's, you know, that's a double-edged stor- sword is what money is.

[44:26] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[44:28] Speaker 3: But that's a whole rabbit hole. Mortgages and lending, and the Federal Reserve is, uh, nothing federal about it. It's a private, it's a private corporation.

[44:41] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[44:42] Speaker 3: It just, psh, prints the money. Or they don't even print it, they just enter it in all, in on a ledger.

[44:50] Speaker 4: Right now, it's in, like, in this, it's in the system.

[44:52] Speaker 3: Yeah. You're approved for the loan, that's how money's created, is by people taking out loans. That creates the money.

[45:04] Speaker 4: So, um, uh, our, our show will be airing for now every other week. And the goal, I believe, what I'm hearing you say, is, um, you're gonna do what you're gonna do, and then we're gonna come back here and kind of tell people what we did or what, what, what's happened since.

[45:26] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[45:27] Speaker 4: And, um, yeah.

[45:27] Speaker 3: Yeah, at some point, we can take calls and reach out to people and see if, uh, what kind of experiences they've had with this kind of, uh, information, or if they've had any trouble with the law or, um, debt, or, you know, any- anything like that. I think I'd like to, for people to become more aware and, uh, to learn the definition of words, terms, and phrases, and to read more. Because, you know, like when I was growing up, there was a thing that said, "The more you know, knowledge is power." You know? If you don't know what your rights are, you don't have any rights.

[46:08] Speaker 3: And I find, I found that out-

[46:10] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[46:11] Speaker 3: ... you know, firsthand, for real.

[46:13] Speaker 4: So know your rights, huh?

[46:15] Speaker 3: Yeah, know your rights. But you have to know how to stand on 'em, because if you don't know how to stand on 'em, then that's just as worthless as not knowing what your rights are.

[46:25] Speaker 4: Absolutely.

[46:26] Speaker 3: You know, "I have my rights."

[46:27] Speaker 4: Right.

[46:28] Speaker 3: But that's not-

[46:29] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[46:30] Speaker 3: That doesn't work. (laughs)

[46:32] Speaker 4: Right.

[46:32] Speaker 3: It just doesn't work.

[46:33] Speaker 4: It sounds good, but it doesn't work, huh?

[46:36] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[46:37] Speaker 4: What advice would you give to someone who might be going through a similar situation of an arrest or some legal stuff like that? What would you tell them?

[46:49] Speaker 3: Well, when I started studying this, the first thing I started doing was reading Supreme Court case law, which was a slog. You know, uh, you gotta prop your eyelids up with toothpicks just to-

[47:05] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[47:05] Speaker 3: ... get through all the legal, you know, jargon and legalese, and, and then to make sense of it. You know, like I said, you don't know what any of these words mean.

[47:15] Speaker 4: Right.

[47:16] Speaker 3: A lot of it's written in Latin, and, uh, which is a dead language. I don't know why they use that for law, but I expect it's to be confusing-

[47:25] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[47:26] Speaker 3: ... so people don't understand it. And, um...

[47:32] Speaker 4: But would you say the most common thing is fear?

[47:35] Speaker 3: The most common thing.

[47:36] Speaker 4: What's the biggest-

[47:39] Speaker 3: No, the more common thing, other than fear, is not knowing, the lack of knowledge.

[47:46] Speaker 4: Lack of knowledge.

[47:47] Speaker 3: Or the wrong kind of education.

[47:51] Speaker 4: Very good. Mm-hmm. That makes sense 'cause when you know-

[47:55] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[47:56] Speaker 4: ... then there's nothing to fear.

[47:58] Speaker 3: Yeah. When you know, you know.

[48:01] Speaker 4: When you know, you know. Wow. Um, so do you have an upcoming, um, court appearance-

[48:13] Speaker 3: Well, I'm s-

[48:15] Speaker 4: ... yet you wanna share?

[48:15] Speaker 3: The plea deal I took was to plead guilty for, I think it was a firecracker.

[48:23] Speaker 4: (laughs) A firecracker.

[48:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, 'cause I, you know-

[48:27] Speaker 4: Sorry. (laughs)

[48:27] Speaker 3: I fired enough attorneys-

[48:29] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[48:30] Speaker 3: ... to where, and then the Supreme Court helped out. Well, that's where I was. I was, I s- read, uh, DC versus Heller, or whatever it was, the Heller decision.

[48:44] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[48:44] Speaker 3: And then in 2022, they came out with the Bruen decision, which was, just referenced Heller, like, "As we said in Heller this, and as we s- said in Heller that."So it reiterated. It was like Heller Number Two.

[48:57] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[48:58] Speaker 3: And it really hammered down on, uh, guns in common use can't be banned. Like the AR-15 is in such common use that it's ... They c- they can't be banned.

[49:15] Speaker 4: Right.

[49:15] Speaker 3: They're used for lawful purposes by law-abiding citizens all over the country. And so, that's where I was going is, uh, looking through all this, and some, some of these people that, you know, got messed with by the, uh, the Franchise Tax Board or the Ed- Education Development Department.

[49:36] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[49:37] Speaker 3: And, uh, one guy's name, I wanna put his name out there to look at if you're ... If you wanna know more, go to Bran- the website Brandon Joe Williams, and he's got a couple different websites. The Amnesty Coalition and, uh, Williams & Williams Law Firm. He's done a remarkable job of reading just so much. The, uh, Corpus Secundum, Corpus Juris Secundum, um, all these different law books that nobody really ... You know, the legal people don't want anybody to have anymore. But he really, uh, drills down on the definitions of words, terms and phrases, like what's the definition of definition, and then when the definition says, you know, like for example, uh, the Title 26 definition for, uh, business and, uh ... What's the other one? Business and, uh ... I can't remember it.

[50:48] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[50:49] Speaker 3: But the definition is someone who holds a public office.

[50:55] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[50:56] Speaker 3: So a trade, uh, trade and business. That's what it's defined as in Title 26, is someone performing the duties of a public office.

[51:08] Speaker 4: Got it.

[51:09] Speaker 3: And then it has a lot of different confusing things that ... All it means is ... Well, it says, "The definition of trade or business includes the performance of a public office." Right? But then the bar card attorneys will say "includes" means it can include other things.

[51:29] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[51:29] Speaker 3: But that's not true, because the definition of definition means to exclude everything else that doesn't mean that. So that's basically only what it means.

[51:40] Speaker 4: Uh-huh.

[51:41] Speaker 3: And that's the only reference you can find in that chapter of the United States Code.

[51:49] Speaker 4: So you want to, um, empower people through-

[51:53] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Through knowledge.

[51:55] Speaker 4: ... knowledge.

[51:56] Speaker 3: And education.

[51:57] Speaker 4: And education.

[51:58] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[51:58] Speaker 4: And you're willing to walk the talk, and-

[52:02] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[52:02] Speaker 4: ... do it. And it's ... You're a very brave man, I have to admit, because not many are willing to do what you're doing. They're just not. They simply not.

[52:13] Speaker 3: Well, thank you for that.

[52:14] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[52:15] Speaker 3: I hope, uh, I hope I can reach other people that have the gumption to stand o- on their rights.

[52:22] Speaker 4: Takes courage.

[52:23] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[52:24] Speaker 4: It takes courage.

[52:25] Speaker 3: Yeah. Thank you.

[52:27] Speaker 4: So, um, wow. Um, the more I get to know you, the more, um, I'm excited to be by your side through this journey.

[52:40] Speaker 3: Oh. Well, thanks.

[52:41] Speaker 4: Yeah. And, um-

[52:42] Speaker 3: I appreciate that.

[52:44] Speaker 4: And, um, we will keep everybody, um, informed and, uh, whatnot, until our next show. Um, stay tuned, everybody. There's a lot more coming (laughs) than we can, uh, talk about right now. Um, I just wanna thank everybody for joining us today. Um, this is our first time going live, and-

[53:09] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[53:10] Speaker 4: ... just wanna thank Don, uh, for helping us get, put this show together. He's incredible, and, um, thanks for making it so (laughs) easy and smooth, as sometimes these things can be nerve-wracking. (laughs)

[53:26] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[53:26] Speaker 4: But, um, uh, we'll end with that. And, uh, Lucky, anything else you'd like to add before we say goodbye?

[53:36] Speaker 3: Read. Read the law. Read the-

[53:40] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[53:40] Speaker 3: ... law and, um, S- Supreme Court cases, any court cases. Uh, check out Brandon Joe Williams. Check out James C. Lovett. Those are some of the, uh, most knowledgeable people that I've, uh, come across as far as, you know, other people that are involved in this. Brandon has a, a ton of information. Joe Lustica is another one. He's on school. He, he's brilliant, brilliant. And Joey Kimbrough. All those people can be found, and, uh, just look at their stuff, and, you know, there, there's a lot of information that they have that you can ... It'll kind of pique your interest, if you're into this sort of thing.

[54:27] Speaker 4: So don't give up, right?

[54:29] Speaker 3: Yeah. Just keep going, keep moving forward. It looks like we're almost out of time, so-

[54:34] Speaker 4: Beautiful.

[54:35] Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

[54:37] Speaker 4: Yeah. Thank you. We look forward to having you again here in two weeks, and, um-

[54:43] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[54:43] Speaker 4: ... I appreciate everyone being here with us. Thank you so much, everybody. Have a wonderful, beautiful day. (instrumental music plays) Thank you.

[55:01] Speaker 6: No more silence, no more fear. Her voice is stronger when we're here. Bring her back to life. Let her spirit rise again. Looking charms light the way. Bring her back starting today.