[00:01] Speaker 1: (dramatic music) Chuck and Julie, bringing you the truth, straight up.

[00:05] Speaker 2: I'm Julie Hayden and I'm working it.

[00:06] Speaker 1: An Emmy-winning former investigative reporter, a highly successful trial attorney, and publisher of a major Denver area newspaper. They've been partners as talk show hosts and in marriage, as parents, for over 10 years, providing thought-provoking information, opinion, and entertainment, live, local, and interactive. Everyone's voice is always welcome on The Chuck & Julie Show.

[00:34] Speaker 2: And hello, everybody. Welcome to The Chuck & Julie Grass Roots Show, The Truth Straight Up, with me, Julie Hayden, and Chuck Bonino, who is making his way down to the world headquarters, um, as we speak, wracking, wrapping some stuff up up there. All kinds of stuff to talk about today. Um, we'll be bri- bringing you up to date, Chuck went to the Assembly over the weekend, and also, pretty interesting, Diana DeGette is not doing very well in the Democratic primary race, which is prompting the, uh, establishment side of the Democrat Party to kind of freak out, much like they, the establishment side in the Republican Party freaks out. But wanted to start off, Ashe Epp, um, Ashe in America, uh, uh, we've had her on many times before. She's sort of a, an election integrity expert guru, had really an extraordinary report. Um, the clerk of the largest county has withdrawn from the gold standard clerk election par- uh, County Clerk, um, Association.

[01:30] Speaker 2: Um, and apparently it's not so gold standard after all. Um, so Ashe, welcome to the show. Um, and, uh, I want you to talk about this. I mean, this, this-

[01:38] Speaker 3: El Paso's not the biggest county.

[01:39] Speaker 2: But, but it, it, um, revealed stuff that we've been saying for a long time.

[01:44] Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me.

[01:46] Speaker 2: Sure.

[01:46] Speaker 4: Um, this is a story of outside influence, external influence pressuring, um, the clerks. And, you know, we've talked about this before, the fact that Matt Crane wears the Clerks Association as a skin suit for his political agenda. Um, seems like from the resignation letter that I published last week, got through open records requests, the actual, uh, resignation letter from Clerk Schleicher resigning from his leadership position, uh, at the CCCA, as well as the, w- withdrawing El Paso County from the CCCA, um, that, that, that is, that is in fact true. It's a small club, they're driving policy, they're, you know, making up stories about why he, as the vice president, can't be in the meetings, and he had enough, it seems.

[02:33] Speaker 2: Well, well, and you know, th- they've been shoving down our throats that it's the g- starting with Wayne Williams, a Republican, and all of these, well, it's a gold standard, gold standard. And the closer you look, the closer people have, it seems to me, potential financial ties to the vendors and people involved-

[02:48] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[02:48] Speaker 2: ... in the election system, which seems to me to be a conflict of interest. I mean, is it... So Matt Crane's wife, she's got some connections, right?

[02:56] Speaker 4: Lisa Flanagan Crane worked for, I don't believe she's still there, but she worked for, um, I think it was S- Sequoyah and then Dominion Voting Systems, yes.

[03:05] Speaker 2: Okay. Right, right. So, right there, it's like, so anything Matt Crane tells us about that is, is suspect. What's he gonna say, "Oh, yeah, my wife is corrupt and crooked," and, you know, it was high-

[03:13] Speaker 4: Well, not just, not just the wife. So, Matt Crane was the poster boy for Global Mobile Voting. His face is quite literally on the poster that they had. We saw this at, um, well, I wasn't there, but, uh, my sources were on the ground at NASS in August of 2021, the National Association of Secretaries of State. That's where we found Matt Crane's face on the Global Mobile poster selling mobile voting solutions, um, as well as Wayne Williams. You mentioned, uh, you know, family members being all invested. Wayne Williams, at the time he was the city councilman at large in Colorado Springs, his wife sitting on the County Commissioner Board in El Paso County, that of course has oversight of election funding, right? He was a senior advisor at Runbeck Services, and of course, Runbeck is used in El Paso County. So, it's, it's very incestuous, this industry.

[04:01] Speaker 2: Well-

[04:02] Speaker 3: Well, the problem has been, quite frankly, the Republican, uh, clerks, uh, have traditionally, have subtracted every RINO there's ever been. You can go back to Don and Davidson, uh, Buchanan, you can just, year after year after year, Republicans would nominate a quote unquote "good government", uh, secretary of state, or clerks locally, uh, all of which work very hand, uh, hand in hand with Democrats to improve the system, make easier voting, to allow more-

[04:36] Speaker 4: Improve? (laughs)

[04:37] Speaker 3: Yes, yes, improve-

[04:39] Speaker 4: We're gonna help America vote, guys.

[04:41] Speaker 2: That's right. (laughs)

[04:41] Speaker 3: Help America vote.

[04:42] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[04:42] Speaker 2: Who won in America or not in America.

[04:44] Speaker 3: So, I mean, you know, it's, it's just gotten down to the pathetic thing, and now they can't, luckily Republicans can't be secretary of states. I think it's, it's been made a criminal law.

[04:55] Speaker 2: Ah.

[04:56] Speaker 4: Well, don't forget, Chuck, that we have Republican secretaries of state. Uh, Scott Kessler-

[05:01] Speaker 2: Right.

[05:01] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[05:01] Speaker 4: ... Republican Secretary of State brought us all mail-in ballots in 2013.

[05:04] Speaker 2: That's right.

[05:05] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[05:05] Speaker 4: And his, uh, you know, Wayne Williams, who we were just talking about, uh, Republican Secretary of State mandated Dominion Voting systems.

[05:11] Speaker 2: There we go. There we go.

[05:12] Speaker 3: They, uh, the Republicans have done a great job of selling out their party.

[05:16] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[05:16] Speaker 3: And it's probably one of the most important-

[05:17] Speaker 4: Selling out the people.

[05:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the party, the people, voting, everything else. Um, and Matt Crane has been, been obviously a stooge for the industry. Um, and they get away with it, and I have no idea, um, why, but, but it's-

[05:32] Speaker 2: Well, because i-

[05:32] Speaker 3: It's the key, it's the key to controlling elections, and they control elections in Colorado. And if you control an election, you often are the people whose, you know, it doesn't matter who, who, how people vote, it's-

[05:44] Speaker 2: Who counts.

[05:44] Speaker 3: ... who's doing the counting, and they're doing the count-

[05:46] Speaker 4: Matters who counts.

[05:46] Speaker 3: Uh, so it's maybe-

[05:47] Speaker 4: You have trust of Stalin, I think.

[05:49] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[05:49] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

[05:50] Speaker 2: He knows. He knows.

[05:50] Speaker 3: Maybe Stalin is kind of concept. Let me finish.

[05:53] Speaker 2: I thought you were-

[05:53] Speaker 3: Um, and I think we really, I mean, I think it's great that this guy resigned, uh, from the organization, 'cause just to belong to it, after, quite frankly, it had been neutered to, to the point where it's worthless.

[06:07] Speaker 2: Right.

[06:07] Speaker 3: Uh, the secretary of state is basically-... rape them of, of any, uh, actual role in the election process.

[06:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, with the laws. Well, and, and to kind of jump in on this, and Ash, you can kind of explain this, um, 'cause he explained it, I think, in his resignation letter. Um, I mean, there's been an enormous amount of pressure put on any clerk. Look at Tina Peters (laughs) , right? Who dares raise any kind of question about anything, right? And, and, and so ta- yeah, I mean, he talked a little bit about that, right?

[06:36] Speaker 4: He did. So, I, I spoke to Tina Peters this morning.

[06:40] Speaker 2: Oh. I know, we're gonna-

[06:41] Speaker 4: I will-

[06:41] Speaker 2: ... we can let you tease it.

[06:42] Speaker 4: Yeah. I was, I was very excited, um, a- about that, 'cause I haven't had... I've been blocked from being able to see her or access her or visit her, and I haven't spoken to her since before my trial, July 2024.

[06:53] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[06:53] Speaker 4: Um, so it was, it was wonderful to hear her voice, and we got cut off 'cause the, you know, jail people came in and said she had to do something, um, so-

[07:00] Speaker 2: Right.

[07:00] Speaker 4: ... I hope that she calls me back. Um, but yeah, he, he talked about sort of this central, central group of controllers. He mentioned, um, Matt Krane and Carly Koppes as kind of gatekeeping access to information and to meetings. Now, he is w- was the vice president of the CCCA, and one of his central claims was that he was, um, prohibited from attending the meetings with the Department of State, and the reason he was given was that the Department of State had trust issues with him.

[07:32] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[07:32] Speaker 4: That he wasn't, yeah, that he wasn't trusted, so he reached out to the people that he knows in the Department of State, and they said, "Well, that's not true." And so-

[07:40] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[07:40] Speaker 4: ... he, yeah, so, so Schleicher came to the conclusion, according to his, um, both the resignation letter and the letter that he sent to the clerks, both are up on my Substack, ashinamerica.substack.com, um, he came to the conclusion that this was a, a fabrication of Matt Krane and Carly Koppes, who were attempting to gatekeep what was happening. Now, folks will remember, the CCCA has come out with several letters in recent weeks, uh, p- per- you know, any time...

[08:06] Speaker 4: So first it was, "We're gonna transfer Tina Peters to federal custody out of state custody."

[08:11] Speaker 2: Right.

[08:11] Speaker 4: CCCA comes out and says, "No, we can't do that. We don't support it. She's a threat to democracy." Then there was the question of the pardon, then there was the question of the clemency, and they come out at the same time, and the last one, on the clemency, uh, Elbert County Clerk Rhonda Brawn, who has been the target of weaponization of government from the Department of State as well, um, she came out and said, "This letter does not represent me, and I wasn't allowed to provide input into it.

[08:35] Speaker 4: This isn't the clerks, it's..."

[08:37] Speaker 2: Right.

[08:37] Speaker 4: This is, I'm paraphrasing R- Rhonda Brawn right now, but, "This wasn't the clerks, this is Matt Krane and, you know, his core group."

[08:44] Speaker 2: Right. Well, look-

[08:44] Speaker 4: When you consider that that's NGOs, that's external, unaccountable, no oversight, no open records requests, NGOs that are effectively driving the policy for all of the clerk, and also they are the subject matter expert, the point of escalation for all things elections, we've got a real problem.

[09:01] Speaker 2: Oh, we do, because the thing is, is the, the Clerk's office, it's not even supposed to be bipartisan. It's supposed to be nonpartisan. And instead, I mean, they've turned it into, to a weapon, and the Clerks' Association, which they use to kind of give it a, a patina of being non-partisan is, is, is the most weaponized of all.

[09:20] Speaker 3: Well, it is bi-partisan, because there are lots of tool, uh-

[09:24] Speaker 2: Even if they're partisan.

[09:24] Speaker 3: ... clerks for Republicans and, and-

[09:26] Speaker 2: Well, yeah.

[09:27] Speaker 3: ... I, thank God the El Paso one isn't, but there's so many others that are. It's, it's a revolting thing.

[09:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[09:32] Speaker 3: And Democrats had figured out a long time ago to have the NGO basically take over the Secretary of State's duties, um-

[09:39] Speaker 2: Yes.

[09:39] Speaker 3: ... and, and just make sure it's all Democrat, and why Republicans... It'd have to do with the national level, 'cause locally we're too pathetic, um, but in the national level-

[09:50] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[09:50] Speaker 3: ... we can stop that.

[09:51] Speaker 4: Yeah, and you have to, um, like, kind of consider this from the clerk's perspective, particularly smaller county rural clerks. Our elections are so centralized and complicated, so technology-enabled that they can't be experts in this, right?

[10:04] Speaker 2: Right.

[10:05] Speaker 4: So they, they'd have to go back to school, learn a new skillset to be experts in Colorado elections, by design, because they have been centraliz- you know, centralization creates complexity and complexity breeds and hides corruption. We've been saying this for years, and that is true. So the clerks are going to fight to keep the CCCA. They're going to defend the CCCA, largely, because it's a g- it's a great source of resources for them.

[10:28] Speaker 2: Ah. Okay.

[10:29] Speaker 4: They're, they're, they have the escalation point. If there's a problem, they know who to call. They get knowledge-sharing. They get professional development. They get the camaraderie. They get the communications platform that allows them to have access to all th- and, and the idea of that going away for them is daunting. And so that's something, as we consider what kind of change we, the people, want in this domain, we need to keep them in mind as, you know, core stakeholders in this.

[10:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a good point. Well, let me, I wanna turn to something else, 'cause you had a, yet another column up, so everybody, you need to go to Ash's-

[10:59] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[10:59] Speaker 2: ... um, Substack column. Rising... And actually great minds must think alike, 'cause I had been noticing this myself. It's like, all of a sudden, Jena Griswold, it's like if you're a Democrat, we love Jena Griswold, we love Jena Griswold. She's a rising star. Ba- blah, blah, blah. Right? All of a sudden now, everyone hates Jena Griswold. It's like somebody called... There was a memo, a Democrat memo that went out and said, "No, we don't like her anymore. We hate her." And you have a comment about that, too, and I had noticed that, too, and saying, "What?

[11:25] Speaker 2: What's going on with that?"

[11:27] Speaker 4: It's been shifting for a while, and I was actually writing this piece. I w- I went on, um, Richard Randall's radio show th- on Friday, and told, I was like, so he's like, "What are you working on?" And I'm like, "Well, I'm working on something going on with, like, what's going on with the stories about Jena Griswold?" Well, the next morning, this whole staffer thing broke, right? And, and ev- you can see, everybody's on board, Jenna's gotta go. And it's weird, and it's, you know, the easy answer is, well, the primary took place, and it's political calculus, and she's still too competitive, and we want her to be gone, so politically, we're choosing, you know, the, the Democrats are choosing a different candidate. It doesn't solve it for me, because it's so coordinated, and it's, um-And it's been, li- as you said, it's been building for a while, this shift in the narrative.

[12:11] Speaker 4: I think what's happening, which is my, um, you know, my thesis of, of the piece that I published today, which is chock-full of receipts. So all of the links- (laughs)

[12:20] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

[12:20] Speaker 4: All of the, all of the things that I say, the links that are, are in there to the original reporting on all of those different points. Um, but my, my thesis is that th- Jenna Griswold is much more valuable under the bus than pretending to drive it right now, and so they're going to try and convince the people that they've been given change, try to convince the people that there has been accountability of some sort, but all the people, like Matt Krane, like-

[12:46] Speaker 2: Right.

[12:46] Speaker 4: ... um, the staffers in the office, uh, Andrew Klein now is the new Chris Beale. Chris Beale got to kind of slink away, cycle off into the sunset, right?

[12:54] Speaker 2: Yeah. 100%.

[12:55] Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, good.

[12:55] Speaker 4: They're all gonna walk and be fine.

[12:57] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[12:57] Speaker 4: And Jenna Griswold is gonna go under the bus. Maybe she gets off with just losing her, uh, AG race, but if there is goi- if there is accountability coming for the weaponization of government and the stolen elections and all of the corruption-

[13:12] Speaker 3: Right.

[13:12] Speaker 4: ... Anderson versus Griswold, all of the things that were done out of CDOS over the past several years, if there is accountability, my, uh, theory is that it's coming for Jenna and everybody else is gonna be like, "Oh, wow, we didn't know she was so corrupt."

[13:25] Speaker 2: Well, I mean-

[13:26] Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know what? Let me finish every once in a while and talk. It really would be nice. Jesus Christ, forget it. I, I've forgotten what the hell this whole thing... you interrupted me four billion times.

[13:36] Speaker 4: Want me to do the show?

[13:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd like to do the show because I'm not doing the show now and I can't get a word in edgewise with her.

[13:44] Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question? Sorry, Ash. Um-

[13:47] Speaker 3: No, no, you don't be sorry, sorry to me not to ask.

[13:49] Speaker 2: One of the things, um, I think that you point out in your article is that all of the stuff that's coming out is not new. It's all being presented as it's new, but it's not new. And I think you're right. I think what they're going to be going with is, "Guys, we have the gold standard. It's Jenna that's the problem. She's not gold standard. Everything else is."

[14:06] Speaker 3: No, it's gotta be much deeper than that because they don't care it's a gold standard. They don't care whether Jenna sucks. They don't care whether Jenna's corrupt. They don't care that the Secretary of State's office is viewed as corrupt. Uh, it must mean that somebody doesn't like her as AG. Somebody thinks whoever's gonna replace her is gonna be much worse as the AG. But it can't be Democrats all of a sudden coming to the realization that they, they should be a good government party and the Secretary of State's office wasn't run properly. I mean, they're, they're just not those kind of people. That's not who they are.

[14:43] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Jenna's not running the Secretary of State's office though. That's, that's the thing, right? I mean, I had Chris Beale under oath in my trial and, and-

[14:51] Speaker 3: Well, even as, even as a sacrificial lamb, even as the sacrificial lamb.

[14:53] Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's, that's my point, is that she'll... they'll, they'll, they'll throw her under the bus and say, "Well, we solved the problem," but she was not the problem. She is not the problem in the Department of State. Painting Jenna Griswold as the reason it's toxic, as the reason all the staff feel uncomfortable and all of these other things, there's a lot more than that, right?

[15:11] Speaker 3: Sure.

[15:11] Speaker 4: But just on those central claims, Chris Beale was the Chief of Staff. He was responsible for all staff. He said that under oath in federal court at my trial, that he had oversight of all the staff, also has oversight, had oversight of all transparency, all CORA request approvals, buck stops-

[15:29] Speaker 2: Oh, wow.

[15:29] Speaker 4: Buck stops with me unless a court overrules me, is what he said when I asked him about it when he was under oath. And so this idea that getting rid of Jenna, I know it from, from our open records of the, the stuff that was involved in our case, Jenna doesn't come up at all. And if you ask anybody who's done open records on Department of State, Jenna Griswold doesn't have communications. It's like she's never sent an email. You can't find any, any communication. She's... My, my working theory on her for a long time has been that she's this isolated political product and the actual running of things is done by the careers in, um, in the Department of State, but also in the AG's office.

[16:07] Speaker 4: Chris Beale was the outside counsel for Jenna Griswold before he came in to run the office-

[16:11] Speaker 2: Ha.

[16:12] Speaker 4: ... in March, uh, March 8th of 2021 is when he came in to run the office.

[16:16] Speaker 3: Who's controlling Chris Beale?

[16:17] Speaker 4: Well, Chris Beale kind of slunk away very quietly-

[16:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[16:20] Speaker 4: ... in the wake of the BIOS password scandal. I had the opportunity to sit next to him at Mike Lindell's trial, um, last summer, and I asked him, so he comes in and, you know, the last time I'd seen him, I was cross-examining him. And he comes in-

[16:34] Speaker 3: Well, there's another them...

[16:34] Speaker 4: And there's no other seat.

[16:35] Speaker 3: ... another them are independent. Chris Beale's not an independent actor. Whoever replaced him is not an independent actor. I'm not sure it's the governor. Is it other people in the Democratic... Is it, is it national, the DNC, or someone else? But they're just not rogue independent agents, uh-

[16:51] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[16:51] Speaker 3: ... running the Secretary of State's office. It just so-

[16:53] Speaker 4: Agreed. Yeah, agreed. Um, who replaced him is Andrew Klein, former Perkins Coie, uh, political animal-

[17:00] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I've seen him.

[17:00] Speaker 4: ... animal for the Clinton campaign and, and other roles. Um, I... Damage Control, we, we broke that story, um, as well, that Chris Beale had left because they didn't tell us. They didn't do a press release.

[17:11] Speaker 2: So they glad left.

[17:12] Speaker 4: They didn't, they didn't announce it. It was all of a sudden, the Deputy Secretary of State's name on the masthead of press releases had changed, but we didn't get notification about it happening. He just kind of slunk away and I asked him about it. He, he, um, sat next to me for a few hours at the Lindell trial last summer, and he said, "I'm done. I'm going to be a lawyer. I just wanna..." you know, he's gonna teach law at DU.

[17:33] Speaker 3: Oh, good. Excellent. Excellent.

[17:34] Speaker 4: Focus on things, just yeah, just gonna, just gonna-

[17:38] Speaker 3: That's a leap.

[17:38] Speaker 4: ... ride off into the sunset.

[17:40] Speaker 2: Wow.

[17:40] Speaker 3: Well, he's not gonna ride off into the sunset. He gets a job with some law firm to corrupt some more things because he's a... he's good at corruption and that those people are valuable. So they'll bring him back doing, doing lots of different things other than polluting young minds. Um, I'm sure you can engage in other, other activities.

[18:00] Speaker 2: But-

[18:00] Speaker 3: The one, the one good part, and it's incredibly small, I mean, incredibly small, uh, but the Supreme Court is gonna take a slight, slight niche in, into the mail ballot, uh-... uh, fraud operation.

[18:15] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[18:16] Speaker 3: Um, and pretty clear from the arguments of the Supreme Court, they're gonna strike down being able to count ballots, uh, that don't arrive, uh, on, at the polling place, uh, on the day of election. Uh, so that's, it's small, um, and of course, the Democrat judges were, "Oh, no. Who cares when it arrives? It's all good."

[18:36] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[18:36] Speaker 3: "It's all good."

[18:37] Speaker 4: So it's already the law here though.

[18:39] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

[18:39] Speaker 4: Um, we, we don't accept, Colorado does not accept ballots after 7:00 PM on election day. They will count them. It's our statute that they will count the ballots until they're done, and they have to. They can't stop counting until they're done. But they cannot accept ballots after 7:00 PM on election day. So, uh, you know, in terms of the impact of that SCOTUS decision on us, eh, you know, it's not, it's not a ton of impact here in Colorado.

[19:01] Speaker 3: It puts a little, and if, and if, and if, if, if the SAVE Act, uh, gets approved-

[19:06] Speaker 4: It's a big one.

[19:06] Speaker 3: ... and that's a long, long shot-

[19:08] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[19:08] Speaker 3: ... uh, it'll get rid of, uh, mail ballot elections. And if you get rid of mail ballot elections, um, you, you will actually have, be able to have a Republican who could win, maybe, possibly statewide. Jacob indicates, "I thought voters of Colorado approved an all-mail ballot. Can we using-" Yeah, they did, but that doesn't make it any less crooked. They might have approved, you know, we'll massacre all Irish people.

[19:33] Speaker 4: But, so-

[19:34] Speaker 3: Um, but, but it's a practical matter, them approving it by a very small margin, um, and then they add it on, the, the, the key to it, which is the ballot harvesting element, really ended the Republican Party in Colorado. The fact that the Colorado Republican Party was in on it, did not fight it, uh, did not, you know, ever really protest it, and today, you can get most... You ask most Republican rhinos, and they think mail ballot elections are just great, uh, and we should never change 'em. Um, and that, that's really why Colorado is so deep blue. I mean, it's become so deep blue because your, your pink rhinos, um, really have controlled so much in Colorado. And I don't know whether that's ever gonna change. I mean, um, uh, you know, we, we fight endlessly, um, at the state party level, and the grassroots have a maybe 55/45, but there's an incredible percentage of Republicans who are really happy with, with crooking the ballot for Democrats.

[20:36] Speaker 3: And it's a strange-

[20:36] Speaker 4: I don't think they know any better. So here's the thing is, we don't know how people in Colorado vote. We have no idea because elections are a black box. And so we know what we are told the people decided, but we don't know what they decided

[20:48] Speaker 3: Well, we had a, we had a corrupted 2014 election.

[20:50] Speaker 4: On-

[20:50] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[20:50] Speaker 4: Right, but, uh, but, uh, elections have been rigged for a long time.

[20:55] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[20:55] Speaker 4: Um, the, the 2002 HAVA Act gave birth to the elections industry-

[20:58] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[20:58] Speaker 4: ... but the reason for that was the 2000 election with the hanging chads, and the reason for the hanging chads was the paper stock. So there's, there's (laughs) , there's allegations all the way down. It's turtles all the way down with elections.

[21:09] Speaker 4: (laughs Um, however, I wanna just go back to what you said. So the SAVE Act will give us verifiable voters, right? We will know who electors Yeah ... are. That's a, that's a huge thing because the crux of all of this is fake voters. Um, it is the, the inflated registrations and not being, not having any fidelity of the voter rolls. And that is a big, big thing. Clay Higgins has a mail-in ballot bill as well, which would, um, ban no excuse mail-in ballots. That would have an impact here in Colorado and a, and a big one Oh, yeah? Um, for sure. But that was brought in- And then we'll see- That was brought in by a Republican secretary of state on her own. On her own in 2002, she came up with that rule on her own saying, "No, you no longer have to," so you can thank the Republican Party again for that. (laughs)

[21:56] Speaker 3: Um, 'cause I, I, you know, quite frankly, when they did that in 2002 and I was running elections in a municipality, I went, "Great. Then we'll just go out and get all these absentee ballots in, and the election will be over by election day." And it was.

[22:11] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[22:11] Speaker 3: But once again, it's, it's, you know, it... I don't know-

[22:14] Speaker 4: So I, I, I think the most important thing is that we tell the truth about our elections because the American people, the people of Colorado can't make rational, logical decisions about whether or not they want mail-in ballots if we're lying to them about it. And they have been lied to about it. When mail-in ballots were sold to the people of Colorado, we were told when reasonably, reasonably people said, "Hang on a second, how are we gonna know that these ballots are coming from actual voters?" Well, we have signature verification.

[22:41] Speaker 4: The signature-

[22:42] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[22:42] Speaker 4: ... verification is the identifier, and that is gonna make sure that you know absolutely, 100%, no question, this ballot is from a real, lawful voter. Well, we found that they don't really do signature verification-

[22:54] Speaker 3: No.

[22:54] Speaker 4: ... in the large counties. Um, in the smaller ones, they do. I've watched 'em do it. Um, that's not where the, you know- Well, an X counts

[23:02] Speaker 3: ... majority of the stuff happens, so.

[23:03] Speaker 4: You can have just an X, right? I mean, the way I understand the law too. It's like you don't even have to have a signature. It could be an X, and it just has to be sort of witnessed by somebody. But the same somebody can witness an unlimited number of Xs, as I understand it.

[23:16] Speaker 3: Yes.

[23:16] Speaker 4: And there's nothing there. Well, and, you know, one thing I think too-

[23:19] Speaker 3: And that was a change though, from what the people were sold. The people were sold-

[23:23] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.

[23:23] Speaker 3: ... that, that, that, that- No, no, but the people

[23:24] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[23:24] Speaker 3: ... were sold on everything. ... signature was going to be an identifier. Over time, that gets relaxed and relaxed. The more people become comfortable and addicted to mail-in voting

[23:31] Speaker 4: They're gonna forget about it. They're gonna forget everything that happened.

[23:31] Speaker 3: ... it gets relaxed. Now they're saying signature verification is a poll tax, and we need to get rid of it. Sure. Yeah

[23:36] Speaker 4: Signature verification is the only way that they sold this to people in the first place. So we have to be honest about it.

[23:40] Speaker 3: Right. Well, then why did people believe it? Did, did anyone actually think that was true? No. They, they sold a bill of goods endlessly, and they keep on buying this so, the, the, the, the, the, the lies. Um, and, and I don't know when, when we make repub- I just finished with the assembly, and I watched Gabe Evans go up and just lie, just lie and space off to a whole assembly, and 85% of the people just loved it. You know, you know, immigration, "Hey, no problem. I'm tough on immigration." Yeah, I'm tough on any enforcement of immigration, is what he meant. But I watched an entire 85% vote for a guy who was lying to 'em straight to their face, and they seemed to be happy about it. And so I don't know what, what's gonna ever change, uh, to make... Well, nev- I guess it's 10:20.

[24:27] Speaker 4: We live in the jungle primaries anyway.

[24:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to jungle primaries anyways, man.

[24:30] Speaker 4: It's called the jungle mood, so.

[24:31] Speaker 2: Um, Ash, before we let you go, I want, uh, you know, Tina Peters. So I know-

[24:35] Speaker 3: Yeah. I was-

[24:35] Speaker 2: ... you wanted me to do something and I, I'll let you tease that and ... 'Cause I, I, I noticed that you were gonna be writing more on that.

[24:41] Speaker 4: I am, yeah. So, um, I woke up this morning and, uh, Tina Peters was calling me. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe it. Because I've been on her list for months and she's never been able to call me. I was denied by CDOC from being able to visit her. Had to jump through a whole bunch of hoops before I was denied, but then denied nonetheless. I posted about that over the weekend and posted the receipts, the, the emails that I had received from CDOC on, um, X.

[25:05] Speaker 4: And then suddenly, today on Monday-

[25:07] Speaker 3: Oh.

[25:07] Speaker 4: ... Tina was ... (laughs) It's ... I'm sure it's a coincidence.

[25:10] Speaker 2: It is. Yeah.

[25:10] Speaker 4: Um, but she sounded ... She, I mean, she's such a brave lady. She sounded, she sounded great. Uh, we talked, um, about a bunch of stuff and I have a bunch of notes and I'm going to be writing that up. It'll probably come out tomorrow. I will be joining, um, Ryan Shuling on 630, uh, AM radio tomorrow, and I'll tease some of the, some of the insights there as well. I just haven't had a chance today to really sit down and-

[25:33] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[25:33] Speaker 3: Well that, that'll be interesting.

[25:33] Speaker 4: ... process it all yet. But it was fantastic. Yeah.

[25:35] Speaker 3: Because Ryan Shuling is not a Tina Peters fan, as far as I can tell.

[25:40] Speaker 2: Well, we'll see.

[25:41] Speaker 4: He doesn't li- Yeah.

[25:41] Speaker 2: Ash, thank you. And-

[25:42] Speaker 4: I'm gonna say what I'm gonna say regardless. I don't really care.

[25:45] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[25:46] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[25:46] Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I-

[25:46] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[25:46] Speaker 3: What time is that gonna be on?

[25:48] Speaker 4: Uh, 8:00 AM.

[25:50] Speaker 2: All right.

[25:50] Speaker 3: 8:00 AM on, on what day?

[25:52] Speaker 4: 6:30 KHAL. Tomorrow.

[25:53] Speaker 2: Tomorrow.

[25:53] Speaker 3: I know, but what day? Tomorrow?

[25:54] Speaker 4: Yep. Tomorrow.

[25:55] Speaker 3: I'll be listening for that one.

[25:57] Speaker 2: All right. Ash, thank you, as always-

[25:59] Speaker 3: Thank you, Ash. You're great. You wanna-

[25:59] Speaker 2: ... for the great work that you do.

[26:00] Speaker 4: Thanks, guys.

[26:00] Speaker 2: We'll see you later. Thank you.

[26:01] Speaker 3: Bye-bye.

[26:02] Speaker 2: All right. Did you wanna talk about the assembly there a little bit?

[26:05] Speaker 3: Well, I've already talked about the assembly, but it, it was, it was disheartening. It was incredibly disheartening, um, to be at an assembly. Um, we had, uh, Adam DeVito running against him. Um, and he gave up a speech in which he really didn't do the, the tough stuff. He really didn't do the, uh, the things you really needed to do, um, like going up and saying, "Hey." He, he has told us he will not be for enforcing, um, the immigration laws. He only wants, quote unquote, "gangsters", uh, deported. They're the only ones who get deported. Um, and what that means is that the 20 million that arrived under Joe Biden's term, um, or anybody else who manages to get in, um, across the border, either on the side or otherwise, um, can do that. And then once they're in, as long as they're not a, quote unquote, "gangster", that's the end. Um, and now that is a popular position for the, um, Americans for Prosperity, because Americans for Prosperity, um, want cheap labor.

[27:08] Speaker 3: They want cheap labor for their farms, they want cheap labor for everything else. Um, but there was no one to, to challenge, um, Gabe Evans. No one who said, "Do you really want this? Do you people really want ..." And at least if they did that, at least if we had honest debate at the assembly of whether the people there, um, want only, uh, criminals deported, uh, we would have a chance. Uh, but we don't get that. Um, and so it was never discussed. Um, and 85% of people very happy. Um, and, and it got approved, but the, the issues were never, were never discussed. And that's the hardest part. That's the hardest part. 'Cause we'll never get ... And, and I think, you know, uh, he sold his soul out to America. And I don't really blame him, because the only way you're gonna win in that district where the Republicans, uh, have no money, uh, the party itself has very little money, um, is with the tens of millions that the Americans for Prosperity, uh, put in.

[28:11] Speaker 3: But if you had an honest discussion, at least it would cause, um, the next time the issue comes up, and the issue will come up, of whether we should have Trump's, uh, deportation or should we get rid of ICE, uh, get rid of the Department of Homeland Security and get rid of everything else. So that's a challenge we always have. That's a challenge that, that, that the party has, because it, it's ... So many things happen in the Republican Party that if the people really knew, and they only know it through debate, um, and, and a real discussion. Uh, but it been so many times ... And, and we have our representatives. By far, uh, if, if you look at the score, um, the principles of liberty score on all our senators and state legislature, most of them get Cs and Ds. Cs and Ds. And yet they come back, uh, to Adams- well, not Adams because we don't have any elected Republicans in the State House or state senate. But they go out back to their ones and they, and they talk tough.

[29:12] Speaker 3: And they say, "Well, you know, I'm really fighting for this and fighting for small government." But when they come up and they arrive in the capital, they sell us out and they become co-sponsors of some of the worst bills. Um, and, and, you know, there has to be something, uh, that we ac- make these people accountable. At least if they say, "Ah, you know, I agree with the Democrats. Uh, you know, I'm really a semi-Democrat myself, but, but, uh, I want your vote anyway." That would be okay. But they go back to their home districts and they sell them how they're rock red, they're hard conservatives, when in fact they're constantly voting, uh, for Democratic bills. And they don't, Democrats don't need their votes. They've got more than enough people do it. But it does become incredibly important when they say, "What are you complaining about?" We had a Republican co-sponsor of that.

[30:04] Speaker 3: This is a bipartisan bill that, that kills industries, kills the oil and gas industry, destroys, um, coal industries. Um, you know, we had bipartisan support. And if you talk to the legislatures, they'll say, "Well, I want to give, I want to get something done." You're kind of like, "Destroying the state? That's what you wanna, wanna get done?" And, and, and then you have some great ones. You have a few great ones down there and we ought to, I guess, praise them more. But the great ones like Stephanie Lochte said, "I don't want to be down there anymore. We don't accomplish anything. Um, the RINOs really rule."Um, and it's no fun. W- what fun is it to be down in a capitol in which nobody... the Republicans have no chance to ever pass any legislation, um, and they can only add on to Democratic legislation.

[30:54] Speaker 3: And they get on, they say, "Well, I slightly improved this awful bill." And you kinda go, "Yeah, but you, you gave it support, you gave it cover." And that's, that's the great, the great... Uh, at the assembly, only 33 people, a great total of 33 people voted for Adam. 33 people. Um, and I have to say, you know, it's... in some ways has votes. If you look in the larger scale, um, which is, uh, the Republicans really need to hang on to, um, CD8. Um, without Americans for Prosperity money, um, they can't hold it, uh, whether they can't hold it or not, even with, with the money. Um, and so that's why Trump, um, supports, um, Gabe Evans, not because he agrees with him, um, or certainly does not agree with Americans for Prosperity, but he's be- he's become a, a, you know, a practical politician. He realized that's why, uh, Hope Scheffelman had to drop out. He said, "Look, I'm gonna withdraw my, my endorsement for you, and if I draw...

[31:59] Speaker 3: withdraw my endorsement and give it to Jeff Herd, uh, you have no chance to raise funds, you have no chance, um, to do anything. Um, so I need you to withdraw, because if you don't, then Jeff Herd will in fact vote Democrats, um, and I won't be able to get my, my agenda done." So time and time in Colorado, you know, Trump is endorsing people who do not believe in Trump's agenda, but it's just practical politics. And every once in a while, every once in a while, you, you get the grassroots versus, uh, the establishment just laid out bare, and that's happened in Texas. Uh, you have John Cornyn who has been in the Senate, I forget, I think 30 years? More than 30 years. Um, a total establishment tool, um, and at the last few years, he's, he's kind of, uh, voted with Trump. But in previous ones, he was absolutely against him. He was for, uh, the Russia investigation and against Ken Paxton. Now, Ken Paxton is, is, uh, not great as a married man. He's had a divorce.

[33:06] Speaker 3: Uh, he's getting a divorce, and it's kind of an ugly divorce, and he was kinda caught cheating on his wife. Well, you know, I mean, as a practical matter, if that's all there is, uh, how many perfect people do we have? How many perfect people do we have? But there, that... the two sides are going head against head, um, and both have money. In fact, um, Cornyn has more. He spent $10 million in his initial primary, that initial primary where the top two go on, and, and Cornyn came out slightly on top after spending $10 million. Um, and, and Ken Paxton had like a million. So usually when you get spent... outspent 10 to 1, um, it's, it's really, uh, it's really almost impossible to win, but he came in close and now the polls... Um, so if, if Trump does not endor- endorse Cornyn, um, it appears that Paxton will win easily. Um, if Trump does, uh, endorse Cornyn, then it'll be a close race. Um, but I think at this point, uh, Cornyn did... or rather Paxton did a brilliant thing.

[34:14] Speaker 3: He said, "I'll withdraw if you pass the SAVE Act." Um, and Trump went, "Ooh, that's, that's good. Uh, that makes, uh, more sense to me." Um, it's, it's, uh... Jacob says to us, "The Dems have no money either." Uh, the Caesar Sharp has hurt the Dems (laughs) . Um, as a practical matter, they have lots of money because it's- it's not really the party. The DNC has very little money, but all those massive billionaire funds that- that- that flow into the nonprofits and out from the nonprofits, um, every Colorado candidate gets outspent here, 4 to 1, 10 to 1, 20 to 1, 30 to 1. Um, and that's in part why it's so impossible to win, um, in addition to the fact of, of mail ballot harvesting and mail ballots themselves. Um, it's... it'd be interesting if, if... but it takes money, um, to put a ballot in. You know, do you want, actually want mail ballot elections? I'm afraid it probably would, would, uh, not pass, but it's worth, it's worth the effort.

[35:21] Speaker 3: Um, if you want a two-party system, you gotta have same-day voting. Um, not that the Democrats won't try to crook that. I mean, they have and they do, but it's much harder. It's much harder to crook same, same-day balloting. And you have to have Republicans, uh, fighting hard. We've got, we've got another race coming up just a few days from now. Um, we'll be voting on who's gonna be the vice chair of, of the Republican Party. Um, Sandra Black, uh, from El Paso is running, um, and there's a good, um, Republican, uh, grassroots guy running. And so it'll be really interesting to see, um, who wins that, 'cause that'll tell you so much about the party. 'Cause Black was just a, a, a supporter of, uh, Brita Horne. And Brita Horne, I mean, no one can imagine, uh, a worse (laughs) party chair. Really, there, there ha- I mean, we've had crooks and we've had just... everything. But no one's ever been worse, um, than, than, uh, Brita Horne. So will we get a good vice president?

[36:30] Speaker 3: I think we'll come on air. Um, I think the election's April 2nd, um, and both Julia and I are, are... have, um, are candidates. Uh, not candidates. We're delegates, uh, to the state central committee, and so we'll be voting. Um, that'll be a key vote.That'll be a key vote for us. And the Republican Party really then, then they'll have because, uh, Horne is, is, uh, going next. Um, she's gonna do the, um, uh, resign April 17th, and you have to have an election 30 days after that. Um, and we've got, you know, several candidates. A new one came in, Craig Steiner, uh, endorsed by some good conservatives, Patrick Neville, um, but the trouble was to also endure, and endorsed by, um, by McNulty and other ones. Uh, so we went and looked closely, said, "Well, maybe this too would be a good one." Um, and then it turns out, you know, he, he likes, he likes to write for Complete Colorado. He calls himself a common sense conservative.

[37:38] Speaker 3: And any time somebody puts a qualifier, uh, before the name, before they, they say common sense, as if, uh, conservatives aren't common sense, that you, you have to be a common sense conservative because conservatives are crazy or some title to it. Um, he's a bright guy, he's a capable guy. He'd probably make a good chair if you want an establishment hack. Um, but he will, he will not... The one thing that the, the whole Republican Party is divided online on the one thing, and that's the opt-out. As long as we have, um, unaffiliated voters being able to vote in Republican primaries, um, you're gonna get Democratic-leaning primary voters. We've got a big one for governor now, um, and it, it really, and the, the, the barber, uh, barber, what's her last name? (laughs) Um, I forget. Uh, but Barbara is, is, is the, uh, establishment one, and then you have a lot of good people trying, um, to kind of upset her. Um, and I think at the assembly, I'm not even sure Barbara's gonna try it.

[38:49] Speaker 3: She's already, uh, written in, um, or gotten petitions, so she'll get on the ballot. Uh, and the... if it was just up to Republicans, she would not win. Uh, there'd be a Conservative candidate who'd win, but, you know, it'll be overwhelmed. And that's another fight that, that it tells you, i- if somebody says, "Are you for the opt-out?" If you wanna know where somebody stands on the great battles of the day, um, it's, it's whether, um, you know, they're for the opt-out or not. If you want to run elections that are controlled by Republicans or really ca- controlled by unaffiliated voters who are Democrats, um, that tells you everything. Um, and that's a great divide that, that cannot be sort of fixed. Uh, all of the elected officials, um, in Colorado, they all vote for the establishment ones 'cause they do not want to have just Republicans deciding who the Republican candidates. Um, they feel, generally speaking, that they will lose, um, if Republicans, um, get to decide.

[39:49] Speaker 3: A candidate would come up who's a little closer to Republican principles, um, and, and it would, it would just, it would just go away. Um, let's see here. Jacob says, "The Dems have no money either," and they said, like he said before, "to get, he's having a hard time, so is Hickenlooper. Uh, the Cortez and Sanders millionaire tax campaign has sent money to the Republican opponents. We won't know the real polling (laughs) until after Labor Day." Um, the Democrats are, in various, um, almost all of them, California, Washington, uh, back in Massachusetts, New York, they're all, they're all, um, they're all adding increasing millionaire taxes. And all the millionaires are, are fleeting to Texas and to Florida, and now some other places like Idaho. Um, the one place they're not coming to is Colorado, um, and they used to. Um, in fact, Palantir, uh, left, left, uh, California and came to, came to Denver, and was a real possibility of, of getting...

[41:02] Speaker 3: It's a, it's the largest, if you do it by k- market capitalization, the largest company in Colorado, um, and we drove them out. And Westward and other ones were thrilled. "Yeah, we got rid of Palantir." Um, and they're driving out the oil and gas, they're driving out coal, um, they're driving everything out. And Trump, if that wasn't bad enough for Colorado's economy, Trump is moving all the, all the, uh, high-tech ones out of Boulder. Um, those ones which work the University of Colorado and CAR and the other ones, they're also leaving. So, what is gonna be left? What is being, gonna be left? You see that the office buildings down in Colorado, um, are, are going to be, um, they're selling for dimes on the dollar. Dimes on the dollar. So, you drive out the Palantirs, um, you drive out the restaurants with over-regulation, um, and you drive all the other ones, what's gonna be left? I mean, if I had to, you know, bet, I would bet short on Denver's economy.

[42:04] Speaker 3: There's nothing that's replacing all the ones that are, that they're driving out. Um, and I have a feeling it won't be long before, um, because it's happened to, in all the other Democratic states, it will have a billionaire tax or a millionaire tax. I mean, they would love to have Phil Anschutz move to Texas or Florida or someplace else, um, and it's, and it's really tough. In California, surprisingly, um, because there's so many Democrats splitting up so much of the Democratic vote, and they have the jungle primaries, that the top two are, are Republicans. And so if that continues and not enough Democrats drop out, it means you'll get a Republican governor in Colo- of California.

[42:50] Speaker 3: The problem is, as somebody said, the minute a Republican wins, there'll be a recall petition, uh, taken out, uh, and they'll try to get him out.Um, so even if you, if- for whatever reasons, the first time in who knows how many years, since Reagan imagined, uh, there's gonna be a Republican, well, I guess Wilson, uh, there's gonna be a Republican governor of Cali- of California. Uh, but you know they're gonna, they're gonna drive him out as fast and as quick as they, they possibly can. So, it's, it's an interesting, it's an interesting time to be a Republican in Colorado. Um, Dave Williams, I, I think was the best, um, chairman we ever had. Not that he didn't make mistakes. He made plenty of mistakes and some unforced errors, but he managed to raise several million dollars, uh, without any establishment money. He managed to, um, to get Trump on the ballot, uh, fought the legal, helped fight the legal fight, um, and he got so many good things done, and he was intelligent.

[43:53] Speaker 3: He was highly intelligent. Um, and since he's left, um, the Republican Party has, has done one good thing. It's, it's come up, we've, we've fought Britta, um, and we've driven Britta out. Um, and that took a lot of effort, incredible amount of effort, 'cause she wasn't happy about going. I can't tell you how many people spent how much time, uh, we had a whole pro se army of, uh, pro se, uh, litigants, uh, fighting against her. Um, and we had people like Ann Ferguson and others just working as hard as they possibly could. Um, and they've driven her out. Now, if we could, if we could figure out how to spend as much time and effort coming together, but the problem is that we opt out. The, the Democrats want, I mean, the RINOs want, um, Republicans, candidates determined by unaffiliated voters, and unaffiliated voters really, and often cases, are Democrats, uh, because Repub- Democrats often don't have anybody in their primaries. They usually have one person.

[44:59] Speaker 3: There's, uh, there's an exception this time. We've got, we've got, Bennet has, has an opposition with the, uh, Phil Weiser, so that's the first actual, uh, fight we've seen, uh, in primaries, so maybe not quite as many people will pour into the Republican primary to vote for whoever's the weaker candidate, or whoever's the more liberal candidate of the two. Um, but it's, it's gonna be an interesting time. Um, it's gonna be, if, if the Republican Party can someday, um, come back together, um, come back and, and, uh, have at least a can- a Republican candidate representing Republican values, um, rather than a Joe O'Day or other ones.

[45:42] Speaker 3: Um, and the, all the money, there was an article, uh, today from a Democrat, uh, in the Denver Post saying, "Oh, you know, the, the Socialist Democrat won, uh, the caucus assembly, uh, two to one we're dying to get, and so we have to, we have to get rid of, uh, we have to go to..." He doesn't say what we have to go to, but the caucuses and assemblies, um, are antiquated, and they allow just too, uh, too few a people, um, to, to determine it. What they mean is, the, the very rich, the few rich aren't gonna decide it, 'cause you have a jungle primary, and the only thing, um, that comes in is big money. Big money determines who goes on things. They make deals among themselves. Um, so you can see it coming, and Independence Institute will all be for it. All the RINOs will be for it.

[46:36] Speaker 3: Um, and I hope we can keep, I mean, you know, I was at a caucus and assembly, and, and while disappointing it is, at least, uh, the people have some chance to see the candidates, some chance to ask them questions, even if they often don't. Um, and it's the only way people can get into a party. Uh, if you don't have the caucus and assembly, there's no route. You can't be a PCP. You can't be, you can become a campaign worker for a rich guy, um, and that isn't too good. But all the, all the, uh, establishment Democrats and establishment Republicans want a, a, uh, jungle primary, and they'll do, they'll move heaven to hell to get it, um, and it'll be interesting to see if we can put a fight up and, and stop it. All right. Well, that's it. I wanna thank everybody. Um, it's, it's good to be able to get a few words in, and, and, uh, my lovely wife decided, uh, that, uh, if I get a few words in, that's a few too many. Um, but it's great to see you, and, and we'll see you again on Wednesday.

[47:38] Speaker 3: Thanks very much.