[00:00] Speaker 1: (instrumental music plays) Welcome, everybody. Welcome, welcome, welcome to another show of Bard's Rise. Today, we again have Mike and Leah back with us and their homesteading siege saga. Uh, I am your host, Michael Deem. Before we get started, I'd like to make an announcement, that today, for the first time on Bard's Rise, we will be taking calls. So, if you are inspired, please call in. The toll free number for the USA is 888-627-6008. And the direct line is 323-744-4831. Those numbers are listed on the website for BBS. If you log into there, you can always see them. And I'll try and repeat that every so often throughout the show. So, without any further ado, Mike and Leah, welcome back.

[02:43] Speaker 2: Hi, Michael. Thanks for having us.

[02:45] Speaker 3: Hey, Michael. Thank you.

[02:47] Speaker 1: No, thank you. Thank you guys for everything that you're doing. Uh, you literally put everything that you had on the line for this fight to, uh, to basically free humanity from the cabal debt system, the mortgage system. Mortgage, right? Debt. Slavery. Um, so I'd like to go to either one of you, just to kind of like, uh, see if you have any comments from where we picked up from last week. If not, uh, I'll lead into some recent events that opened up for the cases.

[03:25] Speaker 2: Okay, so, we'll just... Um, so last Thursday, I think, we left off with, we had finished getting everything out of our, um, community center. We had- the house was done, but over this past weekend, we still had a few remaining things in the parking lot that the, um, officer-

[03:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, the court officer.

[03:50] Speaker 2: The court officer. Thank you. I couldn't think of it. Uh, but the court officer, he allowed us to come in over the weekend. We had, Mike had some, um, you know, some vehicles and things like that for his construction business that we were able to get over the weekend. Um, and then we also still had a few things from the coffee shop that we had part of, like, our courtyard area. We had, like, big, three huge igloos, um, that were, you know, we had furniture in it and little heaters. And, uh, so we had to try to get that over the weekend as well. Uh, took it apart and that was quite, (laughs) quite difficult. But we did that over the weekend. And then, um, actually, this past Monday, on the 9th, we noticed, uh, so two police showed up at our home, um, and we know this because we're staying right next door to it. So, there was two police and then a number... How many other vehicles were over there, do you know?

[04:46] Speaker 3: I think three.

[04:47] Speaker 2: Maybe three other vehicles. And so we're thinking, "Why are the police over there?" It was just the, the Stockbridge police. Um, I don't know. I don't know if they, (laughs) they- they know they don't have anything to worry about with us, but I think it's just all part of their little game to- to discredit us, I think.

[05:06] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[05:07] Speaker 2: Um, but yeah. So, the police showed up over there, and then, actually today, we noticed, um, three vehicles over there the entire day. We're assuming maybe they were maybe cleaners to cl- we're not really sure, but they were there the entire day. Um, so yeah, it's- it's kind of rough watching, uh, you know, it's our home, and we look at it every day. (laughs) And so it is, it's, you know, making me a little emotional.

[05:39] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[05:39] Speaker 2: Um...

[05:40] Speaker 3: Yeah. It's hard seeing it. It's hard seeing somebody else coming to your house that you know is your house, your house you built, then people shouldn't be there without your permission, you know, unless they're invited. So, to see this kind of stuff happening is, it's hard, because we can actually see it. We can physically see, see, you know, see the physical vehicles coming up and down the driveway and people going in, and, it is, it's no fun. That is definitely no fun, seeing that.

[06:04] Speaker 2: You know, and then we just have our kids asking, "Well, how much longer is this gonna take, you know? I just want to get back in my bedroom." You know? And it was Mike's birthday over the weekend, and the kids are like, "What do you want for your birthday?" And he's like, "All I want is our house back."

[06:16] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[06:16] Speaker 2: "That's it. Don't get me anything. I just want our house back."

[06:19] Speaker 1: Right.

[06:20] Speaker 2: Um, so yeah. Uh, this is, it's tough. It's very tough.

[06:27] Speaker 1: I'll bet. And, uh, I will say that that birthday present will be delivered. Uh, for me, not as early as, as it could have been or should be, but it, it will be delivered. Uh, on that note, I, I just want to make a couple of comments on, on the cases. So Mike and Leah actually have three cases now, right? So there's Dalton, Mike, Leah, myself versus Choice One Bank, and that was to try and stop the, the two major claims were to quiet title on their two properties. To quiet title, you need to show that you're actually in possession of the property, and that you have superior legal title. And they have Seventh Amendment right, uh, according to US Supreme Court, to a common law trial by jury to determine those issues if needed, if you can't do it on the papers. Um, and then they also filed a lawsuit, same three, filed lawsuit against the State of Michigan.

[07:36] Speaker 1: And there are five defendants in that because depending on who you name as the individual that's going to represent the state, in addition to the state itself, because we argue that the State of Michigan conceded or consented to, uh, to have its immunity waived to a certain extent, at least for these issues. Uh, so we named the governor, the assistant governor, who's the president of the Michigan State Senate, uh, Matt Hall, who's the head of the Michigan Assembly/legislative body, right, the lower House, as well as the, uh, attorney general for the, for the State of Michigan. Plus the Michigan, like I said, the State of Michigan itself, five defendants, but it's really gonna come down to one. And the issue there is the statutory framework that Michigan has employed. We claim that i- it, it violates federal law, uh, in several ways. You're welcome to go and pull that complaint and read it for yourselves.

[08:47] Speaker 1: And then in addition to that, earlier this week, we filed a motion for preliminary injunction with the sixth, Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. That's the intermediate appellate court, or the one just below the US Supreme Court, and we're asking that court to implement a prel-preliminary injunction, basically putting Mike and Leah and their whole family back into possession of the- their house, their properties, until this case is finally resolved. And we feel strongly that that should have, that order, preliminary injunction, should have come from the district court level, but it took too long and essentially denied our motion without an official order. And that allowed us to go straight to the Sixth Circuit and ask them for the same relief. So that case number is 26-1238, Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, if you wish to go and, uh, read those papers.

[09:56] Speaker 1: In addition to going to either one of the courts, uh, that's Western District of Michigan for the first two that I mentioned, and then the Sixth Circuit. I posted the main documents with respect to each of those three cases on last week's show page. So if you go to Bard's Rise, go to March 5th, 2026 show, and you scroll down a little bit, you'll see various links. There should be, if memory serves, five different links, and that represents the five different documents that I posted. I'll probably post those same documents on this week's show page once BBS has a chance to create it and post it. Uh, so guys, any comments on what I just said?

[10:41] Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.

[10:43] Speaker 1: Okay. Um, yeah, one other thing. Uh, a legal point I like to put out there. Uh, we have been going back and forth with the defendant, Choice One Bank, on several papers. And in their papers, they now have basically... Well, not basically. They have, in fact, conceded to all the elements for an action in ejectment. So, in the very near future, we will be filing a motion seeking to supplement the, the complaint, the First Amended Complaint, with these new facts that Choice One Bank conceded, actually stated in their papers. And that will be another grounds for which we should win on each of the two properties. So as I said earlier, uh, I wish they had gotten, um, Michael had gotten an earlier birthday present, but he, in fact, will get his birthday present as far as getting his home and his community center back. Okay, so no callers, obviously. (laughs) Not surprised. We're not, we're not like Tucker Carlson or some of these other, Joe Rogan.

[12:06] Speaker 1: We have our own little show in our own little corner of the world. But I assure you, once we get-

[12:10] Speaker 2: Well, speaking of that though, uh, Michael.

[12:12] Speaker 1: Go ahead.

[12:12] Speaker 2: Uh, you know, you just said... Well, you just said Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan. You know, we have reached out to some of these, um-

[12:20] Speaker 4: You know-

[12:21] Speaker 1: Podcasts.

[12:22] Speaker 4: ... podcast, yeah, the podcasts and different people to try to get this out there. Do you wanna maybe talk about the different ones you've reached out to?

[12:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Um, because I, I know that this is going to be huge, absolutely huge. I've said it before, this will, uh, make the civil rights movement pale in comparison. Because the civil rights movement, although it was needed, focused, you know, on minorities, by nes- by necessity. But this, what we're doing here, will focus on every single person, homeowner throughout the entire country, except for the original 13 states. And, and, uh, I am confident that it will have some type of an impact on those 13 states as well. So knowing that this is going to be huge and trying to, to get public support behind this, so that it can get pushed out to all these other states, the rest of the country, I reached out to basically every... The, the top 25 podcasters in the country, and I sent them information for this. So I know that they received it. I've gotten some messages back and forth with, with some of these, uh, individuals, and they seem interested.

[13:42] Speaker 1: But right now, they're probably doing their due diligence, doing a little research to, to verify for themselves if we have, uh, a good argument. And I know that they'll come back and say, "Yes, we do have a good argument." And what should help, uh, I guess put some wind in those sails, is when we get the decision from the Sixth Circuit. Uh, I don't see how they can, in good faith, deny our motion. Um, there were questions at the district court level on whether the district court had subject matter jurisdiction or if there were issues of abstention, et cetera. But I responded to all of those concerns, at least in the opposition, our opposition, to, uh, the defendant's motion to dismiss. Those papers, the opposition papers, are hanging on the website. Last... That's one of the, the documents that I put in last week's show. And you'll see it for yourself.

[14:42] Speaker 1: Um, but yes, I, I don't see how the Sixth Circuit could, uh, with maintaining its self-respect, deny our preliminary motion, because we meet all the criteria, hands down, as a matter of law, which means that you don't need a jury to determine what the facts are. You just look at the evidence and it speaks for itself. Some of those, I'm sorry to, for long-winded, but I guess some of those, would be, you know, the top ones everybody's heard about. Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, Meg, Meg Ryan, um, I'm sorry, who's the one from Fox News?

[15:20] Speaker 1: Kelly

[15:21] Speaker 4: Megyn Kelly. I'm sorry. Forgive me. Really bad with names. Uh, you just name all the big ones, and, and it's there. Uh, also some, some other individuals on social media. I- if you believe them, you know, people that are in the current administration, um, representatives, actually the President, the chairman of the RNC, Republican National Committee. Uh, I believe that this issue should be put on the platform and made an, a platform issue for the midterm elections. See who's willing to get behind, uh, land rights, property rights for the people as a whole. The Supreme Court has, has written, in at least one decision, that Congress's authority to regulate with respect to the disposal of public lands is unlimited. So that means they can draft, if they wanted to, draft some really strong legislation to protect people's property rights and put an end to this cabal, Kazarian, um, central banking system that has literally destroyed so many lives. Uh, I'll just put out, th- this out there.

[16:41] Speaker 4: Um, I'm sorry, I don't wanna hog everything. Did you guys wanna make any comments? Well, I was just gonna comment, um, you know, that we've reached out to some, you know

[16:52] Speaker 1: White House staff.

[16:52] Speaker 4: ... White Hou- White House, House staff, and, um, I just wanted to read just a response that rece- we received, um, I think it was this week, wasn't it?

[17:01] Speaker 1: Yep.

[17:01] Speaker 4: Yeah, this week. So it was kind of... It really, um, was encouraging, so I just wanted to read that real quick.

[17:07] Speaker 1: Okay.

[17:07] Speaker 4: Um, okay. It just said, they responded with, "Thank you for reaching out and for sharing your message and the details of your situation. Your message has been received and understood. I will pass this along for review and see what can be done. The information you provided about your filings, the case in the US District Court, and the circumstances surrounding your properties, has been noted. Your commitment to standing up for what you believe in and your desire to help others is clear. Please remain steady and continue documenting everything carefully as things move forward. Soon, many matters will begin moving toward clarity and resolution, and situations like yours will be looked at more closely as part of the broader effort to restore fairness. Thank you again for reaching out and for taking the time to share your story. Wishing you strength and peace as things continue to unfold." And when we received that, it was just really encouraging and promising to us that...

[18:11] Speaker 4: I know, we both know, that, um, this case is being looked at. We know that. And, um, justice will... We will have justice. I, I know it. So, yeah, that was just encouraging.

[18:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, wheels of justice turn slowly sometimes, but they do turn, and we'll get there. Absolutely. (sighs) So, uh, I love that message by the way. Uh, you sent it to me, I read it, and then I was, I was over the moon, as they say, uh, knowing that, that there are people in positions of power that are tracking this.

[18:53] Speaker 2: Yes.

[18:53] Speaker 1: So, we have to just wait for things to fall into place. Right? And with these supplemental proceed- uh, uh, pleadings, things will, will be even more in place. (sighs) I was gonna mention something and, and I got all caught into what you were saying and I can't remember it now. So...

[19:19] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[19:20] Speaker 1: Oh, I, I, I love talking with you guys because you, you bring me back to peace energy. I had an incident today that, uh, really took me out of peace energy. Uh, I haven't been there in, in a very, very long time. But, yeah, being with you two again, uh, uh, it's all good. It's all good. I love, I love working with you guys.

[19:42] Speaker 2: Well, we feel the same.

[19:44] Speaker 3: You know, and just so that the listeners know, like, we, we meet probably, what, once a week, maybe? And it's just, even in the chaos of all of this, it's still, it's just, it is encouraging, you and Kelly. It's just uplifting every time, yeah, every time we meet. It's just wonderful. (laughs)

[20:03] Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate that.

[20:04] Speaker 2: Yes.

[20:08] Speaker 1: Okay. So, if anybody's inspired to call, uh, I'm gonna give those numbers again. 888-627-6008 and 323-744-4831 for direct line. The first one was toll free in USA, the other one is direct. So, please don't hesitate to call. I'm afraid I'm, I'm gonna, people are gonna start comparing me to Alec Baldwin when he tried to open his radio show. (laughs)

[20:37] Speaker 3: (laughs) Nobody called. (laughs (laughs)

[20:40] Speaker 3: Oh, well.

[20:43] Speaker 2: That's okay.

[20:44] Speaker 3: Um-

[20:45] Speaker 1: How are, how are your kids ta- doing?

[20:49] Speaker 2: Um, you know, they've been, they've been pretty good for the most part, I think. But, you know, it is tough. Like I said, we, we can see it. We can see our house. And so, you know, it's tough. It's tough when you see other people coming up the driveway and, um-

[21:08] Speaker 3: And we have a big family too. There's a lot of us, so kind of cramped. You know, everybody's got, everybody needs their space and we're, we're a little cramped right now where, where we're at. (laughs) So, it's a little tough. I mean, they're... I don't know. They're, they're doing, they're-

[21:25] Speaker 2: They're managing.

[21:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, they're being troopers.

[21:26] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[21:26] Speaker 3: They're, they're, they're huge supporters of, of this. So, we're very fortunate.

[21:31] Speaker 2: Fair enough.

[21:31] Speaker 3: We have the children we have, I can tell you that.

[21:32] Speaker 2: Yeah. And they know what we're doing is right and that it's gonna free a lot of people.

[21:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[21:39] Speaker 2: So.

[21:39] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. And I, and I gotta say because, like you said, w- we're over there often, um, and we have the opportunity to work with some of the kids. And, and I gotta say, they're great, from, you know, I, I, I really am impressed with, with all your kids. You, you two have done a heck of a job raising them. Well done.

[21:59] Speaker 3: Thank you.

[22:01] Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, our, our, our one daughter, she, she helps with all these documents. So, she's very good with technology, you know, and the computer and so, she's, she's really good with it. So, she's very helpful.

[22:14] Speaker 3: Couldn't do it without her.

[22:14] Speaker 1: And very observant too.

[22:16] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[22:16] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

[22:17] Speaker 3: Yes.

[22:18] Speaker 1: In case I, I forget anything. (laughs)

[22:21] Speaker 3: Right. (laughs)

[22:22] Speaker 2: Yep.

[22:23] Speaker 1: Twice I left my, my laptop or my backpack, uh, at the house and-

[22:28] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[22:28] Speaker 1: ... she was like, "You forgot your backpack." (laughs)

[22:30] Speaker 3: Yeah. (laughs) Yep.

[22:31] Speaker 1: So-

[22:31] Speaker 2: I will, I will say for our oldest, it, it is, you know, she's the one, you know, that we're gonna start the coffee shop with, and I will say this, hard for her because that's, you know, her, that's gonna be her job. And so, she's kind of in limbo. She doesn't know what to do. That she go and try to get another job right now? Or, you know, she, she doesn't want to. She just wants to kind of wait it out, but then, you know, worried about what other people are thinking and saying and, "W- what are you doing? You're not working. You're just- you're doing nothing." And so...

[23:03] Speaker 3: Because she quit her job because she was opening up her own business. That was what the plan was. And so, she's still got, you know, all the equipment, everything, and is gonna, we're gonna rein- install it all back at the coffee shop, but it's just a matter of time, matter of when.

[23:21] Speaker 2: And she can't really, you know, practice with all the coffee stuff right now because we can't, you can't hook the espresso machine up, you know, here, so she can't-

[23:30] Speaker 3: Right.

[23:30] Speaker 2: ... she can't, you know?

[23:31] Speaker 3: So, everything's paused.

[23:32] Speaker 2: Yeah. So, it is kinda tough for her 'cause she's not sure what she's doing or, you know, how long is this gonna take? So...

[23:41] Speaker 1: Okay.

[23:41] Speaker 3: Right.

[23:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[23:44] Speaker 1: Right. So, you mentioned earlier that there were, uh, a couple cops on the property. Was that y- the old house or the new house?

[23:53] Speaker 3: The, um-

[23:54] Speaker 2: Well, both actually. (laughs)

[23:55] Speaker 3: (laughs) Yeah. Actually, they pulled in the new house first. I don't know why. I mean, um...

[24:03] Speaker 2: It's a small town and I'm sure they knew-

[24:04] Speaker 3: It's a small... People know where we live, yeah.

[24:05] Speaker 2: They knew where we were.

[24:06] Speaker 3: A lot of people-

[24:07] Speaker 2: And then, yeah.

[24:10] Speaker 3: So, then they went and they pulled in the old house. So, I don't know what the reason was, but I know there were some other vehicles there with them, so I don't know what they were doing. I mean, I'm assuming it was probably the bank calling them and wanting them to escort them there. I, I, I'm not sure.

[24:28] Speaker 2: 'Cause they'd already been there before, so I don't know why...

[24:31] Speaker 3: Right.And all the NARLO signs are stop signs. (laughs) We actually posted the NARLO signs, two spots on our property coming off our driveway.

[24:39] Speaker 1: Uh-huh.

[24:39] Speaker 3: And actually, right underneath them, we put big... Actually, we bought stop signs, like, like actual roadway stop signs. (laughs) So if your lights hit it, you know, they, it reflects and people can stop and read it and they, they're still there. So I see people still keep going up and down the, on the driveway and that's-

[24:57] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[24:57] Speaker 3: To me, it's still trespassing. It's our property. They're trespassing.

[25:00] Speaker 1: They absolutely are. They absolutely are. Uh, and that's the purposes for, uh, an action injunct, right? When somebody... When you're out of possession and somebody else is on your property wrongfully, you go to court and you say, "Judge, tell them to get off."

[25:15] Speaker 3: Yep, yep.

[25:15] Speaker 1: And that's what we're in the process of doing in federal court. And we have to go to federal court because state court, the way the Michigan legislature has drafted the statutory framework, you can't do it. It, they specifically deny you the ability to exercise your Seventh Amendment right, and that's all in favor of equitable titleholders. Well, who's the vast, you know... Who holds the vast majority of equitable titles? The mortgage industry, that's who. So there's, uh, a case out there, Fenn v. Holm, US Supreme Court case. Uh, you can find it on Gold Dust Titles. Uh, he's, uh, he offers paralegal services as well as different, uh, research services, which is the same as paralegal services. But he's got... One of his pages lists all these different court cases speaking about land patents, and one of them is Fenn v. Holm. And that's a great case in that the US Supreme Court acknowledged that there were states that allowed equitable title to trump, you know, land patents, legal title.

[26:27] Speaker 1: And he says, but that's, you know... That applies to the states, not the federal courts, and that's where we are now. We're trying to reeducate the federal court system about the status of property law because it's been a long, long time since we had claims like this in federal court. And I think because of what, everything that's going on in the world right now, we're able to, to bring these types of cases forward. We never would have gotten off the ground five, 10 years ago. No way.

[27:00] Speaker 3: No way. And Michael, I feel like it's... I mean, we're going through this process and I feel like it's because for a, a while we're doing this, we have to go through these certain trials right now becau- we have learned so much. I can honestly say, I feel like probably the four of us that work together a lot, I, I don't know if there's many more people in the country that, that understand the land patents like we do now. I mean, we've learned so (laughs) much. Even like Ron Gibson, he's, he was doing it for however many years. I think he did it for, like, 30 years. But we've learned so much because we've actually lived it now. We've been through it, lived it, and understand how the courts work. We woulda never known, I mean, we never even knew that the, the state court was a, was a court of law and equity.

[27:45] Speaker 3: Just assumed-

[27:46] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[27:46] Speaker 3: We just assumed that they were all courts of law, right? I mean, that's a court. You would think it's a court of law, not a court of law and equity. So we-

[27:53] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[27:53] Speaker 3: ... we're learning all this stuff was, uh... I'm sorry. Go ahead, Michael.

[27:56] Speaker 1: No, I, I, I'm agreeing with you, yeah, that the-

[27:59] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[27:59] Speaker 1: ... average person... In fact, the judge, right? The judge even asked you, Leah, do you know the difference between law and equity?

[28:05] Speaker 3: That's right.

[28:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, and I said I do.

[28:07] Speaker 3: Absolutely.

[28:09] Speaker 1: (laughs) Put it right back on, and it was perfect.

[28:11] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[28:11] Speaker 1: I love that.

[28:12] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[28:13] Speaker 2: But it's, like, what... To me, I'm just confused then. Like, why do we have, like, the state courts then? Like, they don't even... They... If they don't follow Constitution, I just... I don't know. I'm a little... I just don't understand why we even have that. Does anybody follow the Constitution?

[28:32] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[28:33] Speaker 3: Right.

[28:34] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[28:35] Speaker 3: Or was there another constitution-

[28:35] Speaker 1: Michigan's sure doesn't.

[28:37] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[28:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, or was there another Constitution written in 1871 that... It's, there's so many... We're learning there's just... They've went around the Constitution so many ways that it's gotta be brought back and I, I know that this is the, this is the whole movement. This is the Trump administration movement. This is, it's what everybody's fighting for. We are to, to live by the Constitution, that we have rights that are unassailable, right? You can't...

[29:03] Speaker 3: Or unalienable, you can't-

[29:06] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[29:06] Speaker 3: ... touch 'em. They... We have rights, and property's one of 'em.

[29:09] Speaker 2: You know, in the Homestead Act, you know, we were, you know, entitled to 160 acres. Well, now, you know, the way they have it, you know, with the real estate and, you know, with the title companies and everything, it's you can own as much as you want. So you have Bill Gates and all these, you know, people who can own as much land. I mean, it'd just take over the whole Earth.

[29:31] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[29:31] Speaker 2: I mean, no, that's not the way it was intended, you know? So I think that's what we're bringing that back, where-

[29:39] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[29:39] Speaker 2: ... we're all entitled to 160 acres. So...

[29:46] Speaker 1: I, I, I love the fact that you guys are, are, you know, going here. Uh, uh, yeah, absolutely. It, it wasn't supposed to be that way, at least here in this country. Maybe go back to, you know, feudal England and that's the way it, it was over there where only a handful of people owned, owned all the property. And then you had to basically sell your soul to them and become, uh, a serf, work their land all your life. And, and you don't have anything to pass on to your kids. Well, we, we, we wanted to get away from that. Our forefathers, our ancestors wanted to get away from that system and allow everybody have their own little piece of the pie, their own little castle, right? Their home was their castle. And we got away from that, little by little over hundreds of years, uh, nearly 200 years. Those rights, property rights, have been eroded.... uh, to where now the vast majority of property throughout this country is owned by corporations.

[30:47] Speaker 1: And President Trump is trying to do something about that. I think he's gonna try and pass legislation at some point saying that, uh, corporations cannot buy these properties, single family homes, and certainly not buy them and keep them secret. I, I, I don't, I haven't followed that too closely, but I know he wants to either make the fact that a single family home is owned by a corporation, make that public or prohibit the corporation from purchasing that single family home to begin with.

[31:26] Speaker 1: Do you guys-

[31:26] Speaker 2: I-

[31:26] Speaker 1: ... know which way he's going?

[31:29] Speaker 2: Oh. I'm not-

[31:32] Speaker 3: I, we don't, honestly. We don't-

[31:33] Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.

[31:34] Speaker 3: ... guess it yet.

[31:34] Speaker 1: So that makes the three of us. Okay.

[31:37] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[31:37] Speaker 2: But I was just gonna say that, I mean, that's what, you know, at our second foreclosure that a, a big corporation came in and, and purchased our home. And I, I, you know, I think that's what most of them do at the foreclosure sales. It's-

[31:51] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[31:51] Speaker 2: ... mostly, you know, big corporations. And it's not fair. It's not right.

[31:56] Speaker 1: No. Because they have all the money and they drive up the prices.

[31:59] Speaker 3: That's right.

[32:00] Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a, it's a losing game for the little guy, 'cause they also have to, they try and compete with that, so they have to come up with more and more money and they become more and more indebted, which means that they have to work more and more and they're away from their families more and more, which means they become more susceptible to becoming dysfunctional. It's just, the whole society just spirals down because of that.

[32:26] Speaker 1: And then-

[32:27] Speaker 3: And then that trickles-

[32:27] Speaker 1: ... that's the way I see it.

[32:28] Speaker 3: Yeah. And it trickles into your children too then, so all of our youth, I mean, they have zero chance of, of being able to own a home. The, the cost of, of a-

[32:38] Speaker 1: Oh.

[32:38] Speaker 3: ... a home right now, for them to be able to do that is al- is nearly impossible.

[32:42] Speaker 1: Yeah. It's ridiculously high.

[32:43] Speaker 3: And it's, and it's because of big corporations bidding these houses up so high, people can't, can't bid against them, 'cause like you said, they can't afford them, so now all the values are up so high. So the youth, they have, I mean, they have to make $100,000 to buy, you know, a year to buy a, to buy a home. And it's, that's, that's hard to do.

[33:01] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[33:02] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[33:02] Speaker 1: So, uh, you mentioned a corporation coming in and buying your house. I'm glad you said that because I've, I've thought about this a couple of times and I would like to just put this out there. So, um, for an action to quiet title, you don't have to name every single person out there, right, i- in order to do this. By naming one person, you quiet title against the entire world. And there are US Supreme Court cases that hold that. Absolutely. So we only named Choice One Bank because that was the one that was presenting the, the threat to you guys, to, to evict you guys. So we named them. But we mentioned this in another show, there was, uh, somebody came in and purchased the, the first, the priority mortgage for your house, and I recall that was actually two bidders, two individual... One was a real estate company and the other one I believe was called HP Foreclosures Solutions.

[34:03] Speaker 3: Yes.

[34:03] Speaker 2: That sounds right.

[34:04] Speaker 3: That's ex- exactly right.

[34:06] Speaker 1: And if memory serves, you guys tried to send them, uh, some type of documents, but it was returned. Can you-

[34:15] Speaker 3: That's right.

[34:16] Speaker 1: ... are you inspired to talk about that a little bit?

[34:19] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, we, we tried to send them, um, no trespassing documents, um, actually probab- like, how many?

[34:27] Speaker 3: I think three different letters we sent.

[34:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe. I, I haven't saved and they were all, yeah, they were all returned. But you could tell where, you know, 'cause they were return, the certified return receipt, and you could tell there was like however many times, three or four, where they tried, tried to, you know, give it to them or whatever, and they-

[34:45] Speaker 1: Three or four attempts.

[34:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. And returned. Yeah. They didn't... Yeah. So it wasn't that it was the wrong a- 'cause that's what I thought at first, "Well, maybe it's the wrong address." But yeah, no, they, they didn't accept it.

[34:59] Speaker 1: Where did you get the address that you mailed this, these letters to?

[35:04] Speaker 2: Well, we actually got it online. The letter that they sent to us, 'cause they sent us a letter, but it didn't have-

[35:11] Speaker 3: Any address.

[35:11] Speaker 2: ... it only had a phone number, it did not have an address on it at all.

[35:15] Speaker 3: At all.

[35:15] Speaker 2: And so, yeah, we had looked it up and it was... That, you know, that was it, but yeah.

[35:23] Speaker 1: So let me see if I can recap for everybody. Uh, after HP Foreclosure Solutions and a real estate company that goes by three letters, I think RJS or something, uh, they purchased your, the mortgage at the non-judicial foreclosure. After that or after the redemption period, one of the two, they sent you guys a letter with certain information, but that letter did not contain a return address for tho- either of those two companies, right?

[35:57] Speaker 3: That is correct.

[35:58] Speaker 1: Okay. So then you went online. You, you tried to, to find out, and it, a, a good address for HP Foreclosure Solutions so you can send them various documents, legal documents. Uh, you found something that was registered supposedly to the Secretary of State or some government office. You sent the letters to that address. Is that accurate?

[36:20] Speaker 3: That's accurate. Yes.

[36:22] Speaker 1: And then, after using the same address that was on file for the government, what, everything that you sent to them was actually returned to you?

[36:33] Speaker 3: Every single thing. Not one document was, was accepted or, or-

[36:39] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[36:40] Speaker 3: ... given-

[36:41] Speaker 1: Right. Delivered-

[36:42] Speaker 3: ... delivered.

[36:43] Speaker 1: So, in my experience, when someone doesn't keep the, the address up-to-date with the Secretary of State, or you can't find it online, they're trying to hide, right? And usually-

[36:57] Speaker 3: True.

[36:57] Speaker 1: ... it's not because of something that's good. Uh, usually because of some nefarious purpose, at least in my experience. That may not be the case here, but in my experience. So I'll just put this out there. To any, uh, government officials or law enforcement types that may, uh, that may be listening, you may wanna look into that, because I suspect, I have a hunch, that someone between either Choice One Bank or perhaps the legal field may be doing some type of self-dealing in all of this. Choice One Bank is carrying the, the burden of this lawsuit, you know, they're, they're basically taking on all the expenses. And now, after all that's done, HP Foreclosure can come in, pay whatever fee, and then take over the property, and then they reap the benefits, the reward of these properties, or y- your family home. And, um, I know we talked about it in a previous show, but your home was foreclosed for far less than the equity that you had in it. Is that accurate?

[38:12] Speaker 3: That's very accurate. Yes, far less.

[38:15] Speaker 1: So basically, whoever bought that is getting a windfall, even if you were to combine the two mortgages that were foreclosed on through non-judicial foreclosure, that still pales in comparison to the equity that's in the house, that now they get automatically. And something needs to be done about that, in, in my humble opinion, because I'm sure you're not the only ones that, that that's happened to.

[38:44] Speaker 1: The foreclose-

[38:45] Speaker 3: No.

[38:45] Speaker 1: You know, they foreclose on the home and they get all this equity. It's a windfall to them, and you're left with nothing.

[38:51] Speaker 3: Right. Well, Mike, we were reading that, 'cause this, to me, it's similar to, uh, I mean, this is, this is a mortgage, we're, we're fighting with a, a lender, but to me, this is a little bit similar with taxes. So, when they do a tax foreclosure, I did read that, um, I can't remember the state, but they're trying to put in legislation right now, put in about, um, the difference. So if you, if you're going to, um, a, if your home is getting foreclosed on for taxes, they're supposed to, they're, well, what they're trying to, to implement is that they, if they do foreclose on your home, that additional equity goes back to the person that own the home and doesn't stay with... You know, they pay off the taxes, but then the, the equity goes, anything leftover goes back to the person that owned the home. That's, right now, they're actively doing that. I can't remember what state is, is working on that.

[39:49] Speaker 1: Right. But unfortunately, the, that's assuming that they actually sell it at the open market.

[39:55] Speaker 3: That's true, yes.

[39:57] Speaker 1: The way I see it now, HP Foreclosure and this real estate agent, they could be landlords, right?

[40:03] Speaker 3: True.

[40:03] Speaker 1: I know you hear stories about bank attorneys. I happen to know someone who's very close, and they are a bank attorney. And because of that, they often get houses on the cheap.

[40:16] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[40:16] Speaker 1: So here, they'll be very, so they, they keep the house, you know, the HP Foreclosure, they're the legal experts, so they'll take care of all the landlord-tenant stuff. And then the real estate agent does the management, does the advertising, everything. He finds the tenants, and they split the profit to whatever ratio they feel is, is fair to them. But my point is, whatever equity, you know, the equity in the house that is a windfall to HP Foreclosure and that real estate company should go back to you if the law was accurate, was better written, but it's not. So then, if they, let's say that you have somebody who's dual-hatted, they're an officer in HP Foreclosure Solutions, as well as Choice One Bank, right? So they're kind of, like, dealing to themselves under the table. And if that's the case, I suspect, I don't know, but I suspect that there's probably a, um, a stockholder derivative lawsuit that will be eligible, that that will be eligible for.

[41:24] Speaker 1: And people can go after them, because you shouldn't do that. Your loyalty should be either to the bank or to HP Foreclosure Solutions. You can't wear two hats-

[41:34] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[41:34] Speaker 1: ... and have conflicting loyalties. So, yeah, I, I would really hope that the law enforcement, uh, personnel that are listening out there, that this is within their jurisdiction, take a look at that, 'cause something is-

[41:46] Speaker 3: And the name of-

[41:46] Speaker 1: ... definitely shady.

[41:48] Speaker 3: Well, the name of the real estate company is BSJ Real Estate. If you look it up, it's BSJ Real Estate, and it says it's a property management company located in Jackson, Michigan.

[42:00] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And BSJ is, are the initials of the, that real estate agent that actually reached out to you, right?

[42:10] Speaker 3: Uh, no. No, no, I don't... No

[42:13] Speaker 1: That's what I recall. I may be wrong.

[42:16] Speaker 3: Okay.

[42:17] Speaker 1: I may be wrong.

[42:17] Speaker 3: I have to look into that.

[42:18] Speaker 1: Right. That, that's what I recall. But anyway, the, the company, the real estate management company is definitely BSJ.

[42:24] Speaker 3: Yes.

[42:25] Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.

[42:27] Speaker 3: You know, and that just kind of reminded me, too, that, you know, we talked about, um, so we have, like, right on the property line, there's, like, a fence, and I've, we've thought about m- putting... I don't know yet if we're gonna put, like, a big- A big banner ... like a big banner or something saying that, you know, "We-

[42:47] Speaker 2: ... that, that our property is federally, you know, it's, it has a federal land patent and give the case number and all that stuff. So we're, I'm, we're kind of debating whether we do that. You know, 'cause if they start do, having showings or, or whatever, I mean, however you would think people would look into that. I mean, when you do your title work, when you have a title company pull your title work, you're gonna see, wait a minute, you know, what is this?

[43:13] Speaker 2: Because, you know, we had, I think we mentioned this on another show, but we had a, we had a friend that's, has a title company and she pulled the title work and she said she would definitely discourage people from purchasing a home with, you know, the things that we have, um, at the Register of Deeds that we have-

[43:31] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[43:31] Speaker 2: ... uh, registered. So anyway, we thought we're, we're debating about putting some kind of banner, like huge banner, maybe gaudy. So that, you know, if somebody, if they're, if they're doing a showing, they're gonna see that.

[43:46] Speaker 3: And just so they know that there's an active, there's-

[43:48] Speaker 2: An active case.

[43:48] Speaker 3: ... right now, there's an active case. So buyer beware-

[43:51] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[43:51] Speaker 3: ... like you say, right? Buyer beware.

[43:53] Speaker 1: Absolutely. Caveat emptor.

[43:56] Speaker 3: Right.

[43:56] Speaker 1: In Michigan, caveat emptor applies to the purchase of bank of, of foreclosure properties, whether it's judicial or non-judicial, caveat emptor applies. So let's say that somebody was to come in and buy either of your properties from Choice One Bank, and then you wind up winning the lawsuit against Choice One Bank. Whoever is on that property would have to get off, whether it's Choice One Bank or the new bur, purchaser, they would have to remove themselves from the property, if not the sheriff or court officer, whoever then removes those people, puts you back in possession, and then the buyer does not have any legal recourse to get their money back from Choice One Bank. You can sue them until the cows come home. You'll never get a penny because of caveat emptor.

[44:54] Speaker 3: Okay.

[44:56] Speaker 1: So yeah, I would love to see you guys put banners. I, you, you would totally be within your right to do it if it was off the property itself on an adjacent property. Perfectly legitimate. The, the way I understand it. It's a matter of public concern. Uh, and you, and it's truthful, right? Truth is always a defense. Always.

[45:22] Speaker 2: Yep.

[45:22] Speaker 1: So yeah. Look for, looking forward to what your decision is on that (laughs) .

[45:26] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[45:27] Speaker 3: Well, you know, we did, so me being a builder, I have built every house around here. It, we, we created this compound. We were the first one, we created this whole compound. We have many family members, many people that live around right here. So we pretty much own the entire block right here. I mean, at least half the block. And so we have property that butts up on every, all sides (laughs) .

[45:49] Speaker 2: Yeah. All sides actually.

[45:51] Speaker 3: Sides.

[45:53] Speaker 2: Well...

[45:56] Speaker 1: That's awesome. You guys are so hokey. I love it. I mean, such a small town, you know, close-knit community, family, all of it. I love it.

[46:07] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[46:07] Speaker 1: I love working with you guys.

[46:08] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[46:13] Speaker 1: So running out of, of content here for the show, right., Trying to, to follow a, a cue from cue, no silence on the radio, um, but that-

[46:27] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[46:27] Speaker 1: ... that's getting kind of hard. So, um, I would like to, there are issues that I would like to go into and talk to you about regarding this, this case, a couple of the cases, uh, but I feel that it's prudent not to do so because I know that there are people from Choice One Bank, uh, and there are agents that are listening to this show, whether live or recorded, I know they're listening and they're trying to get information and I'm not gonna do that just yet. Uh, but I know, believe me, I know. Uh, so that said, I want to try and play, play this close to the chest. Although we have talked a lot about other issues that I otherwise would not be willing or comfortable talking to. But this is a matter of public c- concern. We do need to start educating the public on their rights and what's going on here and what you guys are doing for everybody. Uh, because it is going to take some time to get everybody up to speed.

[47:36] Speaker 1: Um, but anyway, that's a, a long segue into, I'm pretty much out of slits, guys. Unless you have any comments, maybe we can end a little early tonight.

[47:49] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[47:49] Speaker 3: Yeah. Sounds good to us.

[47:50] Speaker 2: I think we're good. Yep.

[47:52] Speaker 1: Okay. All right. So then, uh, I thank everybody for listening, whether now or on the replays. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the subscriptions. I will make a plug. Uh, you know, feel free to support us either through subscriptions or just a one-time donation. You can find the buttons to do that with on the show page. Uh, and regardless of what you send, we, we really truly do appreciate it. And, uh, and if you don't send anything, we appreciate you listening. All of you, each and every one of you. So thank you folks. I wish you all the best. Looking forward to talking to you next week with some more information. And with that, uh, BBS Don, please take it away.

[48:37] Speaker 3: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Oh-oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh.