From Nervous-System Insight to Economic Policy: Translating Ideas with AI

Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 – Justin, host/co-host. The opening identifies Justin and Kenna, and Kenna later addresses Justin by name near the conclusion. Justin generally asks questions, offers examples, and closes the program.

Speaker 2 – Kenna, host/co-host. The opening identifies her as Justin’s co-host, and she leads the extended discussion about embodied experience, nervous-system regulation, financial structures, and the Treasury proposal. The raw transcript spells the name “Kena”; “Kenna” is used here as the likely intended spelling, but confirmation is recommended.

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Speaker 1 – Justin: Hello, and good afternoon. Welcome to Translating Heart Intelligence. This is Episode 2. You’re here today with Justin and Kenna. How are you doing today, Kenna?

Speaker 2 – Kenna: I’m doing really well. I’m glad to be here with you today and to explore the different topics we’re going to cover.

Speaker 1 – Justin: How are we going to connect this second episode with our first episode?

Speaker 2 – Kenna: We left off in our last episode talking about how to take feelings and ideas and turn them into language that you could submit as policy changes or use for different project ideas you may have about your own world. I was talking about one of the first proposals I created and sent to the Treasury Department through its email system. I think it was something like congressional inquiries at treasury.gov.

Speaker 1 – Justin: How do you feel about that?

Speaker 2 – Kenna: I think our intention is to begin with an idea and translate it using AI. One of the biggest hurdles I encountered when I started working with artificial intelligence was wanting to understand how my perception of being here even works. That was one of the main things I began focusing on. I tried to ask questions and have the AI reflect back to me how I make decisions and participate in my own life and reality.

When I started asking those questions, I came to an initial understanding, and all of this eventually led to my being able to express the information I wanted to put into a policy. What I came up with was that I first make a decision about my life. You are always making a yes-or-no decision about everything you do here.

From there, the decision becomes a relationship. If you decide to drink your sweet tea, you pick it up and have the experience of drinking it after making the decision to do so. These decisions often happen so quickly that we do not even recognize the yes-or-no question that begins the experience.

That led me to ask another question. After I make a yes-or-no decision and begin having an experience or relationship with something in my environment, what happens if I have a dream or a wish instead? What if I want to change the world, fly, or own a very nice car? Some people call that manifesting. You can manifest something into the light.

I started exploring what makes something I want become experiential. If I say yes to an experience I want, what about being here slows it down?

Speaker 1 – Justin: Survival.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes, survival. The term I came up with while using the chat to explain this to myself was a governor function. The governor of the qualitative experience you have as a result of a choice ultimately comes from your nervous system.

For example, suppose I decide that I want to go skydiving. I have the dream of doing it and want the qualitative experience of skydiving. Then I wait for everything to happen. I arrive at the airport, prepare to get on the plane, and suddenly think, “Whoa, wait a minute. Hold on.” My body goes into overdrive, and I begin wondering whether I really want to do it. That is when you may start doubting your dream. Your body sends signals, such as nervousness, and there can be many different reactions.

Another thing I explored involved experiences that can create intense excitement, including abundance.

Speaker 1 – Justin: Or people winning the lottery.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes. That is an idea many people think about. People ask what they would do if they won the lottery, and they often have plans for where they would allocate the money. It is as though they are preparing for it to happen.

If you suddenly woke up, looked at your bank account, and saw an obscene amount of money, you might experience disbelief or shock. You might even call the bank and ask, “What is going on?” and be told, “Yes, it is yours.” Having what feels like limitless potential placed directly in front of you can hit you like a bus.

Speaker 1 – Justin: It could be very overwhelming. The number-one benefit, though, would probably be the relief of no longer having to outsource your time for your own survival.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes, you would no longer have to worry about paying bills. Your needs could be met, along with your family’s needs if you chose, or you could disappear to Mexico or something.

I think that is the goal. When you have a dream or something you want to do, you want to have that qualitative relationship or experience. That is the reason you have a dream or a wish. However, you also have to understand that your body must process the emotions related to it happening. Sometimes people emotionally bypass the experience and process the emotions afterward, but all of that stimulation still comes through the nervous system.

One thing I explored in depth was whether the limiter on myself and on things entering my creative reality was my body’s inability to hold all of the emotion, whether excitement or fear. That became a gatekeeper even when I wanted to send out different ideas. I would wonder, “What if I actually receive a response? How will I handle that?”

Consider firefighters, military personnel, or people in the medical system. They run many drills and train constantly for almost every scenario so they do not panic during an actual emergency.

Speaker 1 – Justin: It becomes muscle memory.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Exactly. It is like the crochet example from the previous show. You can practice an action, movement, or way of accomplishing something. You can train yourself and your body so thoroughly that you do not have to think about it or process the emotion while you are having the experience.

Speaker 1 – Justin: You mentioned the governor before. How is that connected to your nervous system?

Speaker 2 – Kenna: From my experience and what I have learned, my body has to be able to walk slowly into a very big idea. I do not think I would be one of those people who could simply win the lottery and remain completely calm. It would be exciting, but I would also be stressed because there could be security problems, my name might be in the paper, and many other issues could come with it.

For me, it is easier to create ideas, make art, and participate when I feel calmer. My calmness comes partly from my environment. If I feel safe in my home, know that we have food, and know that our basic water needs can be met, I feel calmer.

Speaker 1 – Justin: That calms your emotional state and reduces the pressure of survival.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes. That is where survival enters the picture. I have observed that one of the biggest pressures on my nervous system involves the elements of survival: food, water, and shelter.

I also think that may be why many people do not pursue their dreams. You hear about people who write unusual books, make movies, act, or do other creative things, and they often say, “Just make the crazy idea happen.” If you reach a place where you feel you can make that leap, you can do it. Ultimately, the individual is the only one who can decide when that leap is possible.

I then began exploring the nervous system on a larger scale, especially in relation to policy. I can regulate parts of the environment with which my nervous system interacts. I have considerable say over where I live and what food I eat. Many people I know, observe, and talk with feel they do not have that same sense of agency.

I do not necessarily want to use the word control. Some people may not want to take more personal responsibility for creating an environment in which they feel more comfortable, because doing so can involve confrontation.

Speaker 1 – Justin: If they have an idea for making life more comfortable, using AI to translate that idea for them could be useful.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes, it can help to have your idea reflected back to you. I can speak only from my own observation, because that is the awareness I have. I would say that my emotional state and ability to let go became my personal governor of how I perceived reality and what I participated in.

I then asked, “What governs my governor? What governs my nervous system?” That led me to the financial system, because it affects food, water, transportation, and, for many people, the place where they live. In that sense, the financial system influences the home environment.

I began asking whether there was a way to lessen the load on a collective nervous system. For me personally, that means ensuring that my survival needs are met and being able to feel safe.

Speaker 1 – Justin: That is why you sent the letter to the Treasury. You had an idea, entered it, and had it translated into legal and governmentese in a form that might be accepted.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes, but first I had to ask the chat what parts of our current financial system, from my perspective, help regulate people’s nervous systems.

Our financial system has benefits because of its massive interconnectedness. We have food-distribution structures. We have localized medical care because people can be paid consistently. We have safety personnel and first-responder jobs. If you look back 200 years, many people wanted a different way to obtain medical care for their children. They might have had access only to a traveling doctor, with no guarantee of care.

If a community had a repository of food, such as a granary, that was helpful. People could still go to farmers’ markets, but many wanted more comfort and less uncertainty. I think that desire helped lead to grocery stores and more efficient systems of distribution.

Speaker 1 – Justin: A better and much more efficient way of distributing what people need.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes. We now have systems that provide more localized, efficient, or convenient ways to meet survival needs. However, there is also a significant cost associated with that: entanglement in all parts of the financial system.

I talked with the chat about what is good, what is usable, and what people realistically rely on. I also asked whether I could use a symbol. To me, our current financial system is structured like the pyramid on the dollar. It takes many people at the bottom of the pyramid, moving upward toward the point.

Speaker 1 – Justin: Like a pyramid scheme.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes, and then resources are supposed to filter back down into the structures in which we participate, if people choose to participate.

I was able to obtain a great deal of information by using symbols. AI can interpret pictures and diagrams and help translate ideas into language that other systems and structures can work with.

Speaker 1 – Justin: Almost like turning the pyramid upside down.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes. We have an existing pyramidal structure that we are working with. It is funny because I sometimes feel that money is treated like a dirty secret that people do not tell anyone about. Someone asks, “Do you have money?” and the response is, “Why do you want to know?” It is one of those things we have all decided to use, but looking at it for what it is can be uncomfortable.

For me, it is uncomfortable to see how funds are allocated. It is also uncomfortable to see people who cannot decide for themselves when something is enough, because for those people it may never feel like enough.

Speaker 1 – Justin: I suppose that leads into the proposal, the benefits of using AI, and the idea that everybody could receive a rebate.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes. This is where I used AI and the basic understanding I had developed. As an individual, I make a yes-or-no decision. I then have a qualitative relationship with my environment. My nervous system determines whether I can handle the experience.

How does that translate to the larger whole of humanity? How do you work with a governor that is lopsided? Is there a way to bring it back into a more natural flow?

Speaker 1 – Justin: Do you want to explain the stomach and heart example?

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes. I used metaphorical language to convey my ideas about how we could move our current financial system toward something more reciprocal.

To me, the current system functions more like a stomach. Time, nervous-system attention, and people’s excitement go into the stomach. Materials, structures, goods, services, infrastructure, and profits are produced as a result. Just as a stomach processes food for energy and bodily growth, the financial system uses our energy, time, and attention.

What is often expelled as waste, however, is people’s emotional experience and their qualitative experience. The system focuses on efficiently breaking down what is put into it and converting it into materials, supplies, goods, services, and infrastructure.

Speaker 1 – Justin: Infrastructure as a whole.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes, infrastructure as a whole. How do we move from a stomach-type system toward something more like a heart? What goes into a heart also comes out and returns to the body. Blood enters, moves through the body, and continues circulating.

How do we include emotional processes and qualitative experience in our understanding of the financial system and abundance? That is a difficult question, but I reached it slowly by asking different questions, reading what was reflected back to me, and then asking more questions.

Is it possible to create a bridge or a grace period in which our current understanding of the financial system becomes more reciprocal, like a heart? A stomach is very efficient within the body, but the metaphor is not sustainable when applied to a means of exchange.

We have both talked about how we observe financial conditions affecting ourselves and other people. The way we use the system in its current form is not sustainable.

Speaker 1 – Justin: No. Can you share examples of where you see it becoming unsustainable?

Speaker 2 – Kenna: One example is the relationship between current incomes and home affordability. Even beyond buying a home, rent prices keep increasing because almost everything is constantly becoming more expensive. A shopping cart of groceries that costs $100 now would have cost substantially less 30 years ago.

Speaker 1 – Justin: I remember when our family’s monthly grocery expenses were probably around $400, and that bought three full shopping carts.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Yes. Remember when you could buy lobster at Walmart?

Speaker 1 – Justin: Why lobster?

Speaker 2 – Kenna: The larger issue is the cost of living and the circulation of money—everything going out and coming in.

Speaker 1 – Justin: What I mostly see is that everything seems to flow toward the top and hardly trickles down. Companies announce record-breaking profits, yet some of the people working for those companies cannot afford to shop there.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: A lot of what we are trying to address, perhaps not completely in this episode but in future episodes, is what happens when AI replaces many kinds of paid employment and where the additional income or productivity gains will flow—or could flow.

What we have observed for ourselves and for people our age is that the system no longer feels balanced for many people. The cost of survival is also the cost of nervous-system comfort. We pay for food and services partly to create nervous-system stability and survival stability.

You could use a word like extortion, although that is a charged word and may not be the best one. What I have observed is that the long-term effect of an unsustainable balance of resources and energy eventually reaches a point where the structure falls apart.

Speaker 1 – Justin: We have seen that many times in history. Once people can no longer survive within a structure, it can completely fall apart. You can prop it up with only so many broomsticks, like in the cartoons.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Right. That would not be a sustainable environment or system.

Speaker 1 – Justin: The cost-of-living balance is so high here. It does not feel that long ago that the minimum wage was $5.25 and then rose to $7.25. Where we lived before, people were trying to raise it to $15, and the last time I looked, some were trying to raise it from $20 to $25.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: If those are the kinds of increases being discussed, the balance is clearly off. We can observe that the trajectory of the current system is not sustainable.

That became the next part of the process I worked through with the chat. I looked back at history and observed the recurring patterns in which societies become trapped. The memory of what has happened before is extremely valuable because it creates a learning opportunity.

I worked with the AI to ask what we have not tried yet and what might actually be sustainable or reciprocal. I explored symbolism related to restoring balance.

My basic understanding is that I make a yes-or-no decision, have a qualitative experience based on that decision, and then feel the experience. My nervous system becomes the governor of my future interactions. With that in mind, one way to keep a system sustainable is to allow people to consent to their participation.

Being able to say yes or no is a major part of making a system sustainable. Can you think of examples in which something does not work because you do not get the option to say, “Yes, I agree,” or, “No, I do not”?

Speaker 1 – Justin: People should always have the option to decide whether they want to participate. The only examples that immediately come to mind are taxes or tax rebates. You can choose to file for a rebate and receive a portion of your money back, or you can choose not to, although other consequences may follow.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: One of the biggest things I observed while asking the chat these questions involved COVID relief checks. People who filed their taxes and fell below a certain income threshold were simply sent money. That was not necessarily a bad thing.

What I was trying to determine, however, was how people could feel comfortable receiving additional abundance if they wanted it. One of the most important parts of developing the financial language was ensuring that people had a clear choice about whether to accept what was offered.

I also wanted the proposal to be pilotable. A small group of businesses or individuals could try it and determine whether it worked. If it did not work, it would need to be reversible. People need a yes-or-no choice, and the program must be scalable so more participants can be added without the system falling apart.

That is why I wanted a pilot program. “Pilotable,” “reversible,” and “scalable” were terms the chat helped me understand in relation to these ideas.

The AI also asked whether I meant a UBI, or universal basic income. It advised me against calling the proposal that because of the emotional connotations already associated with UBI. Within the framework I was developing, a UBI could also be considered nonconsensual if people were simply given money without a clear way to say yes or no.

People have a right to live as they choose. If they do not feel that they need additional stability for survival, they should not be forced to accept it. They need to have that choice.

Speaker 1 – Justin: That reminds me of a study I read about in which something similar was tried in a small town. The results were reportedly surprising. Some expected people to become lazier or work less, but the data showed that relieving some of the financial burden allowed people to work more and enjoy their time more.

Returning to the relief checks, the government has already demonstrated that it has a means of distributing money widely, at least when it has people’s tax information.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Right, but this proposal is not UBI.

Speaker 1 – Justin: What did you call it?

Speaker 2 – Kenna: The AI cautioned me against framing it as UBI. After exploring how I function through choice, experience, and nervous-system response, I wanted other people to have the opportunity for greater stability, a calmer nervous system, and less survival pressure if they chose it.

That was what I wanted to create. When the AI asked whether I meant UBI, my answer was no, because people should be able to consent, and the proposal also needed to be feasible.

In translating the idea into policy language, the primary concerns were consent and creating a foundation that could help people regain their bearings.

The title of the letter I sent to the Treasury Department in December 2025 was “Dual-Channel National Dividend as an Automation and Trade Shock Stabilizer.” Tariffs were receiving a great deal of attention at the time, and people were also worried about losing jobs to automation and artificial intelligence.

Speaker 1 – Justin: Do you want to explain the title or read the full letter?

Speaker 2 – Kenna: We did a test run yesterday in which I tried to read the actual letter the AI helped me write and that I sent to the Treasury Department. I realized that it did an excellent job of translating the idea into financial and policy language, but that language can be difficult for people outside those fields to follow.

It is like going to a doctor who gives you an extremely long medical term, only to explain that it means something simple, like a wart. The legal and financial systems can do the same thing. My original letter was difficult to follow unless the reader already understood that professional language, so I asked the AI to translate it back into easier-to-understand language.

Speaker 1 – Justin: Go ahead. I do not want us to run over time, but I know you have it.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Here is the main idea in plain language.

As automation, artificial intelligence, and trade policies change the economy, some households may temporarily face job instability, higher prices, or pressure to retrain and relocate. This proposal suggests creating a temporary national dividend that would return some of the money generated by those economic changes directly to households.

It would not be a permanent guaranteed income. It would be a limited safety cushion that grows or shrinks depending on how much revenue is actually available.

Where the money would come from: The dividend would have two separate funding sources.

First, an automation dividend. When companies earn unusually large profits or productivity gains from automation and artificial intelligence, a portion of those gains could be collected and shared with the public. This would provide the more stable, long-term portion of the dividend. The idea is that when technology allows the economy to produce more with fewer workers, ordinary households should share in some of that increased value.

Second, a tariff dividend. Tariffs are taxes placed on imported goods. Companies often pass some of those costs to consumers through higher prices. This proposal would return some tariff revenue to households as a consumer rebate. The tariff portion would exist only while tariff revenue existed. It would automatically end when the tariffs ended or the revenue disappeared.

How it would be managed: The money would be held in an independently governed public trust. Automation revenue and tariff revenue would be tracked separately. The public would be able to see how much money came in, how payouts were calculated, and how much remained in reserve.

The president or another executive official would not be able to personally decide who received payments or how large the payments would be. Payment limits would be based only on money the program had actually collected. The government would not borrow money to fund the payments.

The dividend could be paid quarterly. The AI also helped me create a detailed mathematical breakdown of how the funds could be separated, although that portion was not carried into this plain-language version.

Payment amounts would be based on several years of average revenue so that one unusually profitable year would not create an unsustainable payment level. The amount could grow only gradually, and the trust would keep enough money in reserve to cover approximately one year of payments. When revenue declined, payments would automatically decline as well.

Why this is different from UBI: This proposal is not intended to replace wages or provide every person with a permanently guaranteed income. It is meant to provide temporary breathing room during major economic transitions.

The payments could help people avoid panic-driven decisions while they retrain, search for suitable work, move to other areas, start a small business, or adjust to changing prices.

Why it would last about two years: Major economic changes often require time for people, businesses, and communities to adjust. The proposal suggests an approximately 18-to-24-month adjustment period. During that time, the dividend would help maintain a temporary floor under households while the economy reorganized.

After conditions stabilized, the tariff portion would end, and the overall payments could contract.

What the Treasury would need to study before implementing the idea: The Treasury would need to estimate how much revenue the proposal could realistically produce and how much that revenue might fluctuate. Legal experts would need to determine how the trust could be created and whether revenue could legally be reserved for this purpose.

Economic researchers would also need to study whether the payments could affect inflation. The government could first test the idea through a smaller state-level or industry-specific pilot.

The bottom line: When automation produces large economic gains, and when tariffs raise money while also increasing consumer prices, part of that revenue could be returned to households.

The program would spend only the money it actually collected, avoid adding to the national deficit, rise and fall with available revenue, help people through a period of rapid change, and end or shrink when the need and available funding declined.

It would be a temporary economic shock absorber, not a permanent income program.

The proposal may not be perfect, but for people undergoing massive changes, losing jobs, and experiencing increased survival stress in their nervous systems, it was one possible solution I developed.

Speaker 1 – Justin: That expresses much of what we are trying to convey with Translating Heart Intelligence. You can begin with an embodied feeling, observe it, and then use AI to reflect and organize your observations. You can develop the idea with AI and translate it into language that can be shared.

Everybody has ideas, and everybody has behinds. If you have a better idea or simply a different idea, you can translate it and submit it. This is part of trying to create change for the future and alleviate some of the stress people experience.

Many people who work for a living fear that, during the next 10 or 15 years, the “AI overlords” will take over. The real question is what happens afterward. How will resources be distributed? We are setting greed aside for this conversation, because that is a topic for another episode. The hope is that people can participate for everyone’s benefit.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: I want people to see that it is possible to have feelings and also have tools that translate what they are feeling and thinking into tangible ideas they can share with policymakers.

Even if you do not send an idea to anyone, you still have an opportunity to contribute your thinking, whether it applies to your own life, your community, or the country in which you live. The tools are available if you want to use them, and you can use them in whatever way feels appropriate to you.

My major goal has been to understand how my embodied experience works, what usually governs my decisions, how my nervous system functions, and how the financial system influences survival through the nervous system.

I do not believe our current structure is sustainable. My ultimate goal is to help us move toward something sustainable, because our children need a world in which they can grow. We need to give them continuity. This proposal is not perfect, and the rest of our shows will explore the many ideas that branched from it.

In our next episode, I want to talk about housing and ways people can use AI as a tool, if they choose, to help create more sustainable futures. The ultimate goal is for the next generation to have something more to work with—a stronger foundation on which to build.

Speaker 1 – Justin: The larger hope is that people understand they do not have to begin with perfect or proper language, or with professional policy knowledge. They can begin with something they genuinely notice or care about.

A program can help them reflect, test, organize, and translate an idea, but the care, observation, and consent must come from the human being. It is up to you. It is up to the people.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Thank you so much for helping me with this today, Justin. I really appreciate it. I was nervous because this is a great deal of information, but we are excited to see everyone next week. We will be exploring different ideas about housing and sustainability.

Speaker 1 – Justin: That is it for me today. As always, thank you for listening. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night.

Speaker 2 – Kenna: Bye.