[00:13] Speaker 1: Welcome to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I'm your host for a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And let me introduce the crew, guys. If you don't mind waiting for the video portion of our show, we've got Scott Steiert, Chief Chris Noller. A shout-out to our sponsors, you know, our title sponsors, Gulls and Gulls.com. Don't forget that 15% off discount code. It is REDIO15. Type that in next time you go to Gulls.com. Complimentechnologies.com, our satellite sponsor, and we are, we have gunlearn.com, mymedicare.live, and safeguardrecruiting.com, our streaming sponsor. Thanks to them, we're streaming to around a million followers right now on social media during the live show.

[00:53] Speaker 1: And twobells.com, they built a new online store at leoroundtable.com, so if you want to get, like, the cool mug I have behind me on the table, or, um, other gear, hats, shirts and stuff, all you have to do is go to leoroundtable.com. Our website, upper right-hand corner, you'll see the online store. And hey, everything is, like, dirt cheap. When, when I purchase things, I pay the same price as you pay, 'cause we don't mark them up at all. So, uh, w- we don't make a dime. So we're just trying to get our gear out there. Also, a shout-out to Bryan Burns for the Tampa Free Press at tampaequity.com. Thanks for carrying our content, Bryan. Also, Randy Dietrich, Randy's friend, formerlawman.com, and also Travis Yates with lawofficer.com. Thanks to all those entities for helping make this show happen. My family only cares about one thing: that I come home safe.

[01:39] Speaker 2: At GULLS, every order begins with a promise. Made with purpose. Stitched for support. Back with pride. Answered by dedicated hands. Delivering the standard you have sworn to uphold. We serve more than the mission. We serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safely.

[02:31] Speaker 3: ... have not lowered our standards, uh, um, here, and we have a almost 30% vacancy right now, which is pretty, pretty significant. Um, and, but I refuse to do that, because what I tell my officers is, "The people we're hiring are gonna be your cover for the next 20 years. They're gonna be the people that are gonna be responding with you, and if we just take anybody, you're gonna end up with anybody kind of cover, not people that want to be here, not people that are serious about the job, not people that have the mental aptitude or the physical aptitude to do the job." Um, and, and I refuse to compromise, uh, on, on those things. Now, that being said, what I will say is we've had a lot of officers go to other states. Uh, in Colorado, you're required by law to check the personnel file of an officer who's worked previously in, in another, in another department. Um, that's not true across the country.

[03:25] Speaker 3: We have had a number of officers leave and go to work in other departments throughout, in different states, many of whom are fine officers, and really, there would have been nothing for them to find in their file anyway. But there's been a few that have gone to become officers in other states, and, hmm, uh, yeah, I feel sorry for that department-

[03:42] Speaker 4: Hmm.

[03:42] Speaker 3: ... because there's, there's, uh, issues, and there's reasons why they were no longer here, and they don't check their internal affairs files. Um, I, I think that is something that oughta be mandatory across the country, is that if you're gonna hire a former law enforcement officer, you oughta have to talk to that agency, and those agencies should have to tell you, uh, w- about that officer's performance. But that is not the case right now.

[04:08] Speaker 1: Ideally. Agreed.

[04:10] Speaker 4: Well, I, uh, I agree too. Uh, to me, that's, that's common sense. But yeah. That, that's a g- that's a very good point.

[04:15] Speaker 1: Well, guys, on this next one, we got two more. I've got... I'm not gonna have time to go through the whole thing, 'cause we got a commercial break coming up in about, uh, 40 seconds. But rvmnews.com, Red Voice Media, transgender substitute teacher arrested over a murder spree threat towards a high school. So, that's gonna be interesting. Just to kind of, like, whet the appetite. A 19-year-old substitute teacher, and that is young, in Virginia has been arrested after authorities say that he made online statements describing plans for a potential attack at a local high school. That'll give you a pucker factor. Guys, stick with us. We're gonna cover that in one second, and then we've got another one. We'll be right back. All right, guys. It's time to talk about Compliant Technologies at complianttechnologies.com.

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[05:40] Speaker 1: And friends, take it from me, when it comes to safety, this is one of the most common sense, hands-on, liability lowering devices that's ever come along. Go to the compliantetechnologies.com today, and tell them that Chip sent you. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I'm your host. We're joined by Chris, Chip, uh, I'm, I messed that up. I need some more energy drink. Chief Chris Noller from Pueblo Police Department, and also Scott Steiert, former Green Beret and Delta Force operative. We left off talking about, uh, this is a little str- uh, a transgender substitute teacher arrested over a murder spree threat towards a high school. So, the substitute teacher is only 19 years old, and this is in Virginia, and has been arrested after he made online threats describing plans for a potential attack at a local high school. Now, according to law enforcement officials, Hayden Dollary was taken into custody on Thursday.

[06:30] Speaker 1: Investigators had received information about posts that he allegedly made on Discord referencing a, quote, "kill list" and a plan, uh, described as a murder spree. Now, the, uh, Loudoun County Sheriff's Office said that the reported target was John Camp High School in Aldie, Virginia, located near Washington, DC, actually.Uh, police said they became aware of the situation through a tip submitted through the department's SafeToTalk report app. So, that's kinda interesting that they have this, like, civilian app to, to take in tips. It allows individuals to, uh, share those kinds of concerns with law enforcement. After reviewing the information, investigators moved to locate and arrest Dollery. Dollery's been working as a substitute teacher in the area, and school officials said that he was classified as a non-licensed substitute teacher for the 25/26 school year. And authorities have charged him with threatening bodily harm. He's currently being held without bond.

[07:22] Speaker 1: Investigators have not released any other details about the messages beyond what I just told you, or whether they were able to, um, confiscate any weapons when they, when they grabbed them. Uh, Chief Knoller?

[07:34] Speaker 3: Well, I, you know, you, you talk about, like, hiring practices. Why are we hi- letting a 19-year-old be a substitute teacher, um, who's not even licensed, um, and I don't know how you could've completed... I guess it's possible that they're super intelligent and completed a college education, uh, sooner, but they can't have even, uh, most likely, they haven't even completed college yet. So, what is it that they're able to provide to these students? I, I, that, that doesn't even make any sense, uh, from Jump Street. And then, I mean, obviously the threats, uh, uh, are, are, are another, another problematic issue. Um, you know, I don't know that they do psychologicals for teachers, but maybe that's something they, they should look into doing.

[08:14] Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think it's, again, uh, uh, just looking at the, the current state, especially in that area in Virginia, just from the politics, it was probably something to do with, oh, transgender, DEI hire, you know, whatever. Something to that effect. I mean, I know nobody wa- wants to say it, but let's just, let's just be honest here. I mean, what, what, what, a 19-year-old... 'Cause I said the same thing. It's like, what is so special? Oh, I know what's so special. Because they wanna, you know, you know, make it a big deal. Like, "Oh, yeah. Look. We are hiring transgender." That's my assumption, just based on history. Just based on what we see in that area.

[08:54] Speaker 5: So-

[08:55] Speaker 1: All right.

[08:56] Speaker 5: ... we'll see.

[08:58] Speaker 1: Well, hold that thought, 'cause now we've got a massacre plot thwarted in North Carolina. Um, I tell you, we've got (laughs) we've gone a lot of the same places. Tampa Free Press at tampafb.com, massacre plot thwarted. Uh, a North Carolina woman and a Texas teenager, who was unnamed, arrested in a synagogue attack scheme. Yeah, uh, this is like, you know, when it rains, it pours, guys. So, authorities have dismantled a chilling plot to commit a mass casualty attack on Houston's Congregation Beth Israel, arresting an 18-year-old, which is still pretty young, North Carolina woman who was with a 16-year-old Houston boy. Investigators say that this pair, they planned to kill as many Jews as possible by driving a vehicle into the congregation. So, we've got the first of the three stories involving this kind of stuff. First ex-cop, former cop wanted to kill Black people.

[09:47] Speaker 1: The second one was the transgender 19-year-old non-licensed or registered, you know, substitute school teacher that wanted to make threats at the high school. And now we've got, um, a, a, an 18-year-old woman with a 16-year-old boy wanting to drive a vehicle into as many Jews as they, as possible. So, Angelina Hand-Hicks was arrested on Thursday in Lexington, North Carolina, after the FBI uncovered evidence of the scheme in her home. She's charged with conspiracy to commit murder, being held on a $10 million bond, and Houston Police and the FBI arrested the unidentified 16-year-old boy, charging him with conspiracy to commit capital murder. And they say, the FBI said, this is an exceptional, exceptional example of when you see something concerning, you say something to law enforcement. They make references to, uh, Schlenker School and Israel's 70th anniversary.

[10:39] Speaker 1: It was gonna be very crowded, and it was, that was why, I guess the reason why they wanted to do it at that time for maximal casualties and that kind of stuff. But, um, all these things, um, I mean, th- the system seems like it's, it's working, guys. I mean, it's not pretty, but, you know, we're not reading, we're not doing these stories after the fact, after these mass casualties were committed. They were, they were thwarted, so, Scott?

[10:59] Speaker 5: Yeah. I, that's exactly what, uh, what I was thinking. It's like, with all the bad news, a lot of times, uh, because that's just typically what's get, gets reported, is the bad stuff with law enforcement. Kudos to law enforcement. It just seems like there's, it just, I, I, I get the sense that there's the, the, the focus is maybe not on, um, school teachers at P, at PTO meetings and stuff like that. Like, now we're literally like, like focused on-

[11:25] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[11:25] Speaker 5: ... where the really bad people are. And we have an administration that's willing to do that, even though if, you know, it's, it's not, um, you know, the, uh, it, it's, it's not based on political affiliation or something like that. I know I s- I hate to sound like I'm so like humbug here, but, um, that's how I see it. But yeah, it's good. I, I love it. Um, keep it up. Uh, it, th- these are all wins for, for law enforcement and u- uh, and ultimately, you know, our society is much safer for it, which is the whole reason why law enforcement is there, is to keep the population safe. I think this is awesome. I mean, good job on law enforcement.

[11:57] Speaker 3: Right.

[11:57] Speaker 5: All the way. And it seems like there's good communication between the local law enforcement, between, um, uh-

[12:03] Speaker 1: There just is.

[12:03] Speaker 5: ... community organizers and, and federal. This is, just seems like there's, there's-

[12:07] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[12:07] Speaker 5: ... the, the communication flow is, is really, is really, you know, on, on, on another level.

[12:13] Speaker 3: Yeah. I, I agree. I think it's, uh, uh, it, it shows a great, uh, teamwork between the federal and local, uh, and, and state agencies. Uh, um, you know, and it, and I think it also shows how important it is for law enforcement to be able to do that, especially local law enforcement. And there's a lot of states right now that are trying to put laws into place that are gonna restrict law enforcement's ability to do that, and to use technology in order to, uh, uh, uh, do as effective of a job. We had a bill that luckily yesterday was killed, uh, Senate Bill 70, um, that would've made us apply for a warrant to look at our own flock data.

[12:52] Speaker 1: (sighs) Sure is delicious.

[12:53] Speaker 3: And you talk about the case a minute ago with the young man, uh, a young man, with the ex-officer who was on his way to, to, to New Orleans and how those flock cameras really allowed them to locate this guy. Um, you start putting restrictions like that on there and then w- the story isn't that they got this guy. Yeah, they had to let him go and do surveillance and wait for a warrant and do these other things. But instead what the headline's gonna be is-

[13:19] Speaker 1: Man.

[13:19] Speaker 3: ... ex-North Carolina police officer shoots 13 people at, at a, uh, music rally. Um, y- y- you know, we, we, the, the technology, uh, we need to be, we need to be mindful about how we use it. Um, we need to make sure we try to protect people's privacy as much as we can. There's never been a constitutional right to privacy in the public sphere. Um, and frankly, the restricting local law enforcement use of it is gonna have zero impact on how the, the federal agencies use it. Um, and it just makes our job that much more harder when we can't use that technology or communicate freely with our, uh, federal partners in order to, to make these great kinds of, uh, arrests that, that you, uh, just mentioned.

[14:02] Speaker 1: Yeah. I, that, that, that is a good point because I didn't know that. You know, so I think a lot of times, um, people, like, you know, like at the state level or local level, it's more like a moral victory. "Oh, look, you know, we're, we're for privacy." Which again, I, I, I am too. But, but to your-

[14:16] Speaker 3: Oh, sure.

[14:17] Speaker 1: But to your point, it's, if it doesn't affect it at the federal level, then really is it really helping out your, your privacy? And, and, and also to your point, all that does is impede law enforcement to quickly act because a lot of times just like in the military, when we're going after these bad guys, uh, we had to change the way we operated so we could get out the door fast when we had the intel at that moment. Because if we waited and went through the normal old procedure of taking time and going up the chain and all this other stuff, they're already gone. So you have to be able to add quickly. You have to give the law enforcement the ability to act quickly and you wanna cut the red tape out of there. Um, so kudos.

[14:54] Speaker 3: Look, and I'm telling you right now, if you are carrying one of these around-

[14:58] Speaker 1: Yeah. (laughs)

[14:58] Speaker 3: ... any, the, the federal government can figure out where you go, when you go there-

[15:02] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[15:03] Speaker 3: ... what you do while you're there. Um, I mean-

[15:05] Speaker 1: So peop-

[15:05] Speaker 3: ... you can't escape it.

[15:07] Speaker 1: So people not watching the show vid- uh, visually and they're in your Audible, podcast, radio, Chief Noller just held up a cell phone and that's what he's talking about.

[15:15] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[15:15] Speaker 1: If you're carrying a cell phone, the feds, they, they can get you.

[15:18] Speaker 3: Yep.

[15:19] Speaker 1: All right. Let's do this We got a minute and a half, guys. I'm gonna wet the appetite with this next story. It's an update story, Tampa Free Press at tampafpd.com. Badge gun PTSD. A Texas Supreme Court backs the DPS firing of a ranger after a school standoff. So the Texas Supreme Court, now, not the US, but the Texas Supreme Court, they ruled, uh, o- on, uh, on, I guess on Friday that the Department of Public Safety, DPS, they acted within its rights when it fired a veteran Texas Ranger, not Army Ranger, Texas Ranger, who blamed a high pressure confrontation at his daughter's school on his post-traumatic stress disorder. I really find this story very interesting. I know we're gonna continue it after the break coming up, but the decision was authored by Justice James P. Sullivan, and it reverses actually a lower court ruling and it shuts down a disability discrimination lawsuit that was filed by this former Special Agent Christopher, or Robert Christopher Callaway.

[16:11] Speaker 1: Now, the court found that because Callaway's condition caused him to lose control during a crisis, he could no longer reasonably perform the duties of a law enforcement officer. And, and, and I have to concur with that. You're not, it's not like an inherent right that you have, but it also puts agencies on notice. If you have a guy that suffered from these things, whether from prior military or from the department, what do you do with them? We're gonna pick that up and we're gonna con- continue this in just a second. We'll be right back. All right, guys. It's time to talk about GunLearn at gunlearn.com. And you know GunLearn is the first and it's the only company that offer a step-by-step program that takes you from your present knowledge level to become a safe, accurate and competent certified firearms specialist, like our very own Captain Brett Berlet, actually.

[16:53] Speaker 1: Now this firearm specialist certification, if you have that, if you obtain that, even if it's five years old, there are some huge changes going on. So gunlearn.com, they've actually partnered with Smarter Degree and their, uh, Smarter Degree, uh, university partners and now it's worth college credits. So yeah, that certification, a certified firearms specialist certification is now worth college credits. And you know, that's a big deal because they've been doing this back since 1996 and they've been teaching everything that LEOs, which is law enforcement officers, need to know about both firearms and ammunition, to all factions of law enforcement. Now you can start training today and you can learn, uh, you can sign up to attend a live seminar or you can host a seminar for no co- no cost if you have your own agency. That is all at gunlearn.com. Welcome back. LEO Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. The Law Enforcement Talk Show. My name is Chip DeBlock and I'm your host.

[17:42] Speaker 1: We're joined by Chief Chris Noller from Pueblo, Colorado, and also Scott Stiert, former Green Beret and Delta Force operative. We left off talking about a story, badge gun PTSD, Texas Supreme Court, they're backing DPS firing a ranger, a Texas Ranger, after a school standoff. So we've already been talking about how, um, they made this ruling that the decision was authored by, uh, Justice James P. Sullivan. The special agent involved, the ranger is Robert Christopher Callaway. The court found that because Callaway's condition caused him to lose control during a crisis, he could no longer perform the duties of a law enforcement officer, Texas Ranger. Now the case stems from a, a January 2020 incident. Callaway, our ranger, was on a medical leave for PTSD and alcoholism. Ouch. And he received word that his school counselors were considering detaining his dollar for, his daughter for a mental health crisis.

[18:37] Speaker 1: So he rushes to the high school, he's armed with his DPS badge, handcuffs and a personal firearm. Not his duty firearm, personal firearm, but he's using his work stuff. Inside a small office witnesses said that he became aggressive when two school district police officers get there to transport the girl to a treatment facility, his daughter, the..... Calloway displayed his badge, threatened to arrest them for interfering with his rights as a parent. One counselor reported that she had never been so afraid, and feared for her life, uh, during the outburst. And it, it, it doesn't get much better. He later admitted his PTSD sometimes takes over, leading to less than optimal outcomes, described his behavior at the school as a "fight or flight response," where he chose to fight.

[19:22] Speaker 1: Now, former DPS Director, Colonel Steve McCraw, who made the final call to fire this guy, testified that while the emp- that while h- he empathized with Calloway as a father, the agency cannot overlook the misuse of authority. And here's a quote saying, "A DPS officer has an obligation to control their emotions when they get there, plain and simple." Uh, McGraw stated that during the discharge hearing that, "We cannot afford to have a trooper, a special agent, or even a Texas Ranger that cannot control their emotions." And while Calloway argued that his firing was discriminatory under the Texas Labor Code, the Supreme Court port- pointed to a specific provision in the law.

[19:57] Speaker 1: Justice Sullivan noted that, "Disability protections s- only apply if the condition does not impair a person's ability to do their job." And goes on to say, "DPS cannot give someone a sidearm and a badge, send them out to handle stressful interactions with other Texans, and then have that officer snap under pressure." The court further noted that Calloway's actions created a grave risk of blue-on-blue violence by threatening fellow workers. I- it said that the ruling acknowledged he had 16 years of service and the toll o- of the, that the job took on his mental health, but ultimately concluded that, um, he was out. The court dismissed all remaining charges against the department. There you go. Uh, Chris, why don't you take this one first?

[20:36] Speaker 1: Um-

[20:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, uh-

[20:38] Speaker 1: And I- I'm looking at Scott and I'm seeing Chris, so sorry about that. But yeah, go, go ahead, go ahead, Chief.

[20:43] Speaker 3: The good news is I can't tell where you're looking. Um, the (laughs) -

[20:46] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[20:46] Speaker 3: (laughs) ... the, um, y- you know, I think obviously we, you can't, we can't, uh, in this profession, or, or really even in the military, uh, have individuals that can't maintain their composure while armed in stressful situations. Uh, it's just a recipe for disaster. Uh, I think that, that in addition to, uh, that, you, you have the potential, uh, uh, criminal, uh, uh, acts maybe that this, this, uh, DPS, uh, employee, um, may have done. Uh, menacing, uh, interference, uh, um, you know, o- o- a couple other things I could think of at least, you know, uh, here in Colorado, uh, um, that he could have potentially been charged with. Th- that, uh, i- even taking out the what could happen in the future element, I, there may be a, may have been enough to fire him just based on those actions. Um, you know, it's obviously unfortunate. This job does, uh, uh, wear on people. It does have an impact on everybody who does it's mental health, uh, to, to one level or another. Um, and it, you know...

[21:53] Speaker 3: But there's, there's a way to get help. There's a way to get help and stay in the field. Um, but you can't make actions like this and expect that to be what happens.

[22:04] Speaker 5: Yeah. I agree totally. And kudos, you know, any time the, uh, an agency, um, uh, takes care, you know, uh, basically handles th- handles discipline within the system, like they're the ones making the call, it's not like they're, you know, somebody's have- from the outside's having to tell them, "Hey, you need to do this," i- it, it builds confidence, um, um, from the public, you know, like, "Hey, there are police in the room." You know what I mean?

[22:29] Speaker 5: I think-

[22:29] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[22:29] Speaker 5: ... it's important. Like, obviously, uh, I think this is, uh, a no-brainer. That guy cannot have a gun. He cannot do his job anymore. On the flip side of that, I have seen PTSD, um, in my profession. And, and, I, I, I, you know... As long as there is a pathway to get help and the officers know that, because the more... Because, y- you know, the flip side of that is like, hey, this person goes out there, he serves his country, uh, he serves his community, he gets PTSD because of what we ask him to do. And then as soon as he gets it, it's like, "Okay, we're gonna throw this guy away.

[23:01] Speaker 5: He's worthless now."

[23:02] Speaker 3: Right.

[23:02] Speaker 5: Like, that, that cannot happen, because, um, you know, they, they, they've, they've sacrificed so much. A lot of times that, you know, their families are crap, you know, their marriages are crap. And, and so it's like, give these guys a way to get better. Um, which I'm sur- I'm assuming there is. Um, uh, Chief, you, you had mentioned their organiz- so, you know. And I also realize this too. Um, they, that individual has to take the steps th- themselves. You know the old adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't m- make him drink." It's the same thing. Like, as soon as they identify, if he identifies he has problems, he needs to be proactive and he needs to have the support structure and infrastructure to get the help. And then, and then, and then assess it from there. But certainly if somebody has PTSD at that level, yes, they, they c- they cannot have a gun. They cannot do, be expected to do their job because that's gonna, could lead to something far worse.

[23:51] Speaker 5: And now it's national n- and now it's, you know, it's way worse than what it, w- what it should have been.

[23:56] Speaker 3: Right.

[23:56] Speaker 5: And then now the police look like, you know, they have a black eye. And there's so much good that police do every day, you don't want something like this coming in and, and, and taking away all the good they do e- you know, every day, the majority of what they do, right?

[24:09] Speaker 1: You know, um, Randy Sutton deals with this with The Window Blue at thewindowblue.org, and, uh, and, and we support them. I, I, I know that at Tampa, my last six years on work- working with the, the union, we had a guy that we took from the military. The whole issue was is that, that the department felt that he had lied on his application because he did not disclose the PTSD issue that he had. And, and, and, and, and, and I, I, I'll tell you, behind closed doors, I saw this guy breaking down, wigging out and his voice changing and crying, just like, j- just... I would not trust this guy with a gun. I don't, I did not think that... Anyhow, I mean, what do you... (sighs) You know, what do they... You know, hiring guys that have PTSD, I always think that is a, just such a w- such a, a, a liability for a- a- for an agency.

[24:52] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[24:53] Speaker 1: If you're, if you're hiring someone that's coming to you pretty packaged with that issue, I, I would say, man, look-

[24:59] Speaker 5: We're not even allowed-

[25:00] Speaker 1: ... don't accept that liability. Yeah.

[25:02] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[25:02] Speaker 3: They're not even allowed to ask.

[25:04] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[25:04] Speaker 3: That, that is, that's wrong. That's wrong. I, I, I-

[25:07] Speaker 1: Yeah. And, and, but then if you get them, check the retirement package. When you go hire with an agency, you can clearly find out whether like, like, like with us, with, with Tampa, if you're, if you're an officer, if you're a one-year officer, six months, whatever, if, if, you can do a disability retirement out, whether it's, it's for like PTSD and other issues and get 65% of your pay tax-free, which is about equivalent to making full pay. You know, there are agencies that will take care of you that, but not, not all agencies do that. So, and, and obviously after your, you have your 10-year investment on, things kind of change to where you can actually retire without having a disability and doing a disability retirement out. But yeah, just make sure, you know, we have a system in place to where we try to get you back to where you can get back on the job. But even if we can't get you there within a year, then we have to offer you that, that disability retirement out. But, um, yeah.

[25:57] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

[25:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, we do something similar. Um, but, uh, I mean, you know, as far as going back to the idea of hiring somebody that's already been diagnosed, we are not even allowed to ask that question. Um, if somebody says-

[26:11] Speaker 1: Is that a state thing in Colorado or...

[26:13] Speaker 3: Uh, it's a... I, I don't know is the honest answer. Our HR will not allow us to ask those questions.

[26:18] Speaker 1: God.

[26:19] Speaker 3: So I'm assuming it has something to do with ADA, um, American with, with Dis- Disabilities Act.

[26:25] Speaker 1: Disabilities Act of 1990.

[26:26] Speaker 3: Yeah. Right.

[26:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the 1990 act. Uh, but, but, yeah.

[26:29] Speaker 3: Well, uh, it's just nuts. Yeah Yeah. I think that's crazy 'cause I, I, it has to be, um, in that situation has to be, uh, uh, dependent upon the job in which they're applying for

[26:40] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[26:40] Speaker 3: I mean, it's not like... I, I can understand that if that has no effect on some type of job where they're not, you know, where they don't carry a gun, where they have to be in stressful environments, where they're going to see stuff that might tr- trigger them to go back to where they were. I mean, there's, it's, i- i- it's crazy to me. Um, they're, you know, I, I, I understand that, uh, h- having that law, but, uh, um, they need to just, you know, it's not like a, to me, it shouldn't be like a blanket thing, you know?

[27:02] Speaker 1: Right.

[27:02] Speaker 3: It should be kinda like... Well, and, and, and I, I, you know, I guess if... There's, there's varying levels of, of how severe PTSD is Sure A- and at least having our psychologist know that will be able to ask them questions and determine, yeah, they've got some issues, but there's things we can do, uh, you know, with them to, to, to, uh, uh, keep them a viable candidate and, and they can be successful on the job. Um, but we can't even ask the question.

[27:25] Speaker 3: So our psychologist doesn't even know unless they tell him in the, in the interview

[27:30] Speaker 1: Wow.

[27:31] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[27:31] Speaker 1: Well, it's been... And, and we're cutting it, we're winding it down. Thank you guys so much, Chief Chris Noller from Pueblo, Colorado, and also Scott Stiert, a former Green Beret and Delta Force. And, you know, this is a very interesting topic. We could, we could actually go on for this for a while. I, I think it... At least once an agency becomes aware of that potential problem, now you're wearing that, that leadership hat and you got to make those, those liability decisions and i- it's kind of like incumbent, the kind of like... You gotta, you gotta protect yourself and your agency. So I, I get it. Um, I want to mention The Window Blue at thewindowblue.org. Please support Randy Sutton and those guys for what they're doing. A shout-out to our sponsors, guys, gullist.com, complianttechnologies.com. We have gunlearner.com, mymedicare.live, safecarerecruiting.com, and tubellus.com. Thanks for the support. We'll see you back tomorrow, 12 noon Eastern live.