Speaker Identification

Speaker 1: Chip DeBlock, host of Leo Round Table.
Speaker 2: Chief Ralph Ornelis, former law enforcement executive and guest panelist.
Speaker 3: Scott Stierd, former Green Beret and Delta Force operator and guest panelist.
Speaker 4: Video/audio from the Oak Park police body-camera footage.

Speaker 1: Welcome to Leo Round Table at LeoRoundTable.com. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We have a group of law enforcement professionals who talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective.

Let me introduce the crew. Guys, if you do not mind waving for the video portion of our show, yes, he is back, all the way from California. He is Chief Ralph Ornelis, formerly with the L.A. County Sheriff's Department as well. Thanks for being on the show, Chief.

We also have Scott Stierd. He is a former Green Beret and Delta Force operative. Thanks so much for being back on the show, Scott. He brings a very cool and interesting perspective to the show.

A shout-out to our sponsors. Our title sponsor is Galls.com. Do not forget that discount code. Everybody, if you cannot memorize it, write it down. It is RADIO15. That will get you 15% off your next purchase at Galls.com. RADIO15.

Also, CompleteTechnologies.com is our satellite sponsor. We have GunLearn.com, MyMedicare.live, and ToBells.com. They built our new online store at LeoRoundTable.com. Check it out. We have cool gear: shirts, hats, a coffee mug, which is right here behind me. We have a lot of cool gear, and everything is dirt cheap.

We do not make a dime off anything on the store. Literally, there is no money. We charge so little that we do not make anything. That is by design. We are trying to get our gear out there. When I buy stuff, I pay the same thing you guys pay. I get it the same way. I go on the shopping page, order it, and it gets shipped to my house. It is a great opportunity.

Also, a shout-out to Brian Burns from the Tampa Free Press, Ray Dietrich from PoliceOne.com, and Travis H. from LawOfficer.com. Thanks for helping make the show happen.

Scott, I have been doing this, and Scott got on my case. Tell people how to watch the show, especially on podcasts.

Speaker 3: Yes, we are on every podcast platform known to man, especially Spotify and Apple iTunes, two of the largest. We are also on social media: Rumble, YouTube, Facebook, X, formerly Twitter, Truth Social. The list goes on and on.

The best way to figure it out, even for the radio stations we are on, is to go to our website, LeoRoundTable.com. The top menu bar has a way to find out everywhere we are: dates, times, locations, channel numbers on the radio, all that stuff.

Speaker 1: All right, guys. Let me whet the appetite on what we are going to be talking about today. We have some good topics.

The first one is "Islamize Dearborn." We are talking about Dearborn, Michigan, and the claim that Islam is taking over, with the police force being taken over according to the article.

Then we are going to talk about a BB gun rampage. I am sorry, a man was arrested after firing at nude cyclists in Los Angeles. Seriously, you cannot make this stuff up.

Then we have body-camera footage released of a deadly shooting of a guy at a gas station during a struggle. This is one that Chief Ralph is excited about covering.

Then we are going to jump over to LAPD in California. Officers injured a suspect in a shooting who was armed with a gun and a knife after a noise complaint.

Then we have another one: "It's Just Bacon." A Florida woman faces a hate crime charge after leaving pork outside a Muslim store. I would almost rather just cover the update stories because they are kind of cool.

Then there is the 58-year-old armed with a BB gun rifle who was fatally shot by a Denver police officer.

Then we have the story that we were talking about at the beginning: Michigan parents charged with murder after their 255-pound, seven-year-old son dies. Sad story. There is a lot there.

Then we are in Houston. Houston police officers fatally shoot a guy in response to him pointing a gun at a woman.

We have all those stories, assuming we have time to cover them. If you guys are ready, there is a lot to unpack here. And look, this is your show. We are going to cover the first video, but if you want to cover some of the other stuff, even the updates instead, just let me know.

So, "Islam taking over Dearborn: the police force is being taken over," according to RareFoundation.com. Dearborn Muslim Police Chief Eshat Shaheen stands proudly in front of a Lebanese flag and openly boasts about transforming his department. He praises the Arab American police force. Now it is 45% Arab, which is up from just being at the 3% level.

He celebrates the job being respected even more when facing the justice system. He closes most speeches with alhamdulillah, and I may be pronouncing some of these words wrong. He brags about his strong, proud Palestinian wife and admits that he has been actively recruiting to make the force more representative.

According to our article, the goal is clear. It says he wants 100% Islamic control so the city, state, and eventually the country can live under Sharia, referencing Sharia law. Again, this is according to our article.

The article says this is the deliberate Islamization of American law enforcement. It says that when the police chief himself pushes religious accommodations and demographic replacement while ending speeches in praise to Allah, you no longer have officers protecting the Constitution; you have Sharia enforcement in uniform.

Now, let me just say, I already gave the source, RareFoundation.com, and I am looking for the name of who wrote the article. I do not see a name personally.

Look, I know there is a move to get Sharia law by Muslims throughout the country. That is not even a secret. You go to places like Dearborn, and that is what is going on. There are places around the country, and I am talking about the United States, where Sharia law is actually being practiced. There are smaller communities and stuff. It is not statewide, but it is going on.

I wish the article would have used more examples. It is like standing up in a theater and yelling fire without maybe showing a little bit of smoke. What I am saying is that they are not giving examples of the downside of this going on. I am not a supporter, do not get me wrong. I am saying that if they were talking about arresting people for things that most people would not be arrested for, but Sharia law is being enforced and now they are being sentenced under Sharia law, that would be a big deal. I wish they would have gone there. They did not.

I am curious what you guys think, unless you do not. I see the Chief pointing. He is not pointing at me, Scott. He is pointing at you. He wants you to go first. That is right. You have to find that little mute button. There you go.

Speaker 3: I always frame it like this: how would any foreigner, Muslim or otherwise, feel if an American, a European, or anybody went into their country and decided that they were going to change their lifestyle and their laws? If they do not have a constitution, then maybe those laws are guided by religion. How would they feel about that? They would hate it. They would be up in arms. In fact, it probably would not happen.

But because we live in America, people are taking advantage of, I would say, our kindness and also our own laws. I have nothing against Muslims. I have a lot of friends, and I have fought side by side with Muslims who were our partner forces. So there is no hate there.

It is just that this is America. There is a Constitution. It was always like, yes, you can come over here, and yes, you are afforded our rights and privileges as an American. But that requires some assimilation. You cannot come in here and try to change it. That is where people are getting upset.

Then, of course, you have the whole Somali thing. I get the feeling that there are a lot of them coming over here and totally taking advantage of our system, and our politicians are allowing it because they want their vote. So they are sweeping it under the table. I hope there are some big consequences. There have already been a lot of arrests on that side, if you see what I am saying.

So yes, it is not a Muslim thing. It is an assimilation thing. It is about people trying to change our way of life to fit theirs. To me, that is very disrespectful.

Speaker 1: Scott, the reason I wanted Scott to go first is because I knew he would give a different perspective than me, but a good perspective.

Speaker 2: My perspective is as a chief of police. When I was a chief of police, or even when I was a commander going to community events around L.A. County, you did not talk about religion. You did not breathe religion.

Also, when I was chief of police of the city of Westminster, I had a California flag and an American flag. I did not have an Italian or Mexican flag next to me. I upheld the Constitution, as Scott brings up.

I do not use terminology in another language to advocate for a particular group. When he used the word alhamdulillah, which means thank God in Arabic, and then Allah at the end, I would never say that in a community event after giving a community speech as a chief. I would not say "thank God" or make the sign of the cross because, in my world, Chip, and probably yours too, you separate that when you are in uniform. You do not know who is in the audience, and you do not want to insult any other group.

So I am disappointed in this chief's perspective and what he is portraying and pushing out there. I think that is a good combination between Scott and me. I hope the community and the audience are listening because chiefs of police should not be doing that.

Speaker 1: We have heard stories, and thank you, Chief Ralph. We have heard stories in places like Dearborn about women who do not practice and are not Muslim. There are stories about white women walking down the street who are not dressed like they are Muslim being spit on and stuff like that. That bothers me. The article did not go that far down the rabbit hole, but there are inherent problems with this. Good perspectives, guys.

Speaker 2: If I could say one more thing before we move on, my professor from college wrote a book right after 9/11 called The Holy War on the Home Front. Everything we are talking about right now has expanded tremendously from what happened after 9/11 to now.

Like Scott said, I have nothing against the Muslim religion, and my professor had nothing against the Muslim religion. It is about extremism taking over. When I worked with Scotland Yard, I looked at what was going on there right after the bombing in July 2005. I was there in November. The Scotland Yard police were afraid to engage the Muslim community.

Speaker 1: Well, guys, if you do not mind, I would like to jump. I know we have a commercial break coming up, so I am just going to whet the appetite. I want to jump to the 255-pound kid because I want to make sure we cover that. If we do it this way, when we come back from the commercial break, we will have enough time to get into it and dive deep.

Michigan parents charged with murder after their 255-pound, seven-year-old son dies. Stick with us, guys. We will cover that next.

[Commercial Break]

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Leo Round Table at LeoRoundTable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. I am joined by Chief Ralph Ornelis, all the way from California, Huntington Beach if I am not mistaken, and also Scott Stierd, retired Green Beret and Delta Force operative.

Before we get to the story with the morbidly obese child who ended up dying, and it is a sad story, folks, the best news is that the parents got arrested for murder.

During the commercial break, I asked these guys how they are rolling for the Fourth of July. It is a huge 250th anniversary, and I am trying to get people not to let this one get away. Please make plans and do something to celebrate this great nation. The Chief was just talking about them having a parade over there in Huntington Beach.

Scott, go ahead. I just want to let people hear how you are rolling. What do you have going on? I know the nudity-bicycling event is already over with, so I know you are not going to be doing that in L.A. What do you have?

Speaker 3: Yeah, I pulled a hammy this year, so I cannot participate in that event. Honestly, because it is so dry here, and there are fires all over Colorado at the moment, I do not even think we are allowed to use fireworks now.

Speaker 1: Oh, you are not?

Speaker 3: Yeah. Normally the neighborhood gets out there, and you get the little handheld fireworks, and all the kids are out there. It is actually pretty cool. It is nothing fancy, but it is very much a community event where everybody is out.

That is rare anymore. When I was growing up, neighbors were always out and about. Now, with the way everybody is divided with politics, people just kind of shut their doors and do not really do anything.

But usually on the Fourth of July, people are out there in their parking lots. They have their lawn chairs, they are drinking a cold beer or something, and the kids are out there having fun. That is typically the way it works, which is fine with me. That is the way I like it.

Speaker 1: All right. Hopefully one day, if I ever make it to the water, I will be on the back, on the Intracoastal, drinking my favorite beverage as the boat parade comes by.

Speaker 3: Sounds like it.

Speaker 1: I will be thinking about you guys.

All right. We were talking about Dearborn, Michigan, and the whole Muslim issue over there, including Chief Ralph's favorite chief in Dearborn. Now we are staying in Michigan. This is at the Tampa Free Press, TampaFP.com: Michigan parents charged with murder after their 255-pound, seven-year-old son dies.

It is a sad story. I said before the show started that usually when I do my show prep, I take pictures out so I can just concentrate on the story. But I had to leave the pictures in because these two, the mom and dad, Jessica and Damian O'Brien, just look pathetic. They look disgusting.

Casper O'Brien is the child. It was no fault of his own. He died on November 4, 2025, after emergency responders arrived at his family's Flint Township home in Flint, Michigan. Paramedics responded to a 911 call that he was having trouble breathing. According to the Genesee County prosecutor's office, the boy was in severe distress and was unable to move when help arrived.

The autopsy report from the Genesee County medical examiner's office determined that he died from dilated cardiomyopathy. I may be pronouncing that close enough. They say that with this type of heart disease, the chambers of the heart enlarge but also weaken, and the heart does not work efficiently at pumping blood, which is what it needs to do.

Medical records show that the condition is frequently linked to severe obesity, marked by a BMI, or body mass index, of 40 or higher. At the time of his death, Casper, our seven-year-old, was four feet, two inches tall, and he had a BMI of 71.7, not 40. In comparison, according to the growth charts from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, CDC, the average BMI for a boy his age should be 16. So 40 is the level where they start having those heart issues, and he was at 71.7.

They have a picture of the boy. He is a nice-looking boy. He is huge, but he is nice-looking. Like I said, he did not stand a chance.

On October 23, following the investigation, the parents, Damian O'Brien and Jessica O'Brien, were charged with second-degree murder and three counts of second-degree child abuse. If convicted, they face up to life in prison. Thank God. They are currently being held at the Genesee County Jail. They are scheduled to appear in court on July 2.

One of the child-abuse charges stems from the treatment of the boy's five-year-old sister. I read in another article that all the kids were sleeping in bed with Mom and Dad. Mom and Dad are huge. Of course, the boy was 255 pounds, and the five-year-old was morbidly obese too. They were all sleeping in the same bed together. Are you kidding me?

Court documents say that when police and medical people arrived at the home last year, they found the young girl dirty, with her hair severely knotted and morbidly overweight like everybody else.

Law enforcement and children's protective services descriptions included in the medical examiner report said the family's living environment was horrible. It was unkempt, with piles of trash, just like going through the hood when we were working, right, Ralph? Trash everywhere.

Casper, the boy who died, did not like water and did not like to bathe. His diet consisted mostly of potato chips and French fries, if you guys can believe that. Investigative reports showed that he was not enrolled in school. At least people at school could have gotten involved, but he was not even going there.

His last visit to primary care occurred back in 2024. At that time, he was 104 pounds and diagnosed with an acute cough, throat congestion, and metabolic disease. The doctor referred him to a pediatric specialist, an ENT doctor, and the parents never took him.

I also read in another article that he had some issues with autism. That probably explains why he did not like water.

We have eight seconds. I am sorry to get so deep into the story, but we will talk about it when we come back from the commercial break. Here we go.

[Commercial Break]

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Leo Round Table at LeoRoundTable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. I am joined by Chief Ralph Ornelis, all the way from Huntington Beach, California, and we have Scott Stierd, currently in Colorado, former Green Beret and Delta Force operator.

We just got done talking about a sad story. In Flint, Michigan, two parents were arrested for murder when their 255-pound, seven-year-old son died with morbid obesity and heart issues. His diet was mostly potato chips and French fries. His sister, who they also got charged with child abuse on, is five years old and morbidly obese as well.

So we just went through that story. Scott, start us off.

Speaker 3: It is extremely sad. I do not know what else to say. Obviously, it comes down to the parents here. What lazy, pathetic, gross individuals.

I wish, in a perfect world, people like that would not be allowed to breed and raise kids. It would stop the cycle. Unfortunately, that is never going to happen. That is just the way it is.

I also feel like maybe the social systems or protections failed as well. You guys would know a lot more about this than I would. The kid was not in school. If our kids miss a day of school, we get phone calls all the time. If you miss more than, I want to say, three or four days, we are getting possibly sent to child protection or something. It is crazy here.

How does this kid not go to school, and nobody checks up on him? He did not get this heavy overnight. Yes, the doctor did say he needed to go see this person, but here is my point. If a kid walked in and had black-and-blue eyes, or you saw marks on his back and thought he was probably being beaten, what would you do? If you are a doctor, you are going to call child services.

This kid did not have lashes on his back. My God, the last time he went in, he was 104 pounds, which is really bad. He would have been at the age of what, five? So that is clearly child abuse, right? Why did the same thing not happen?

There are a lot of things that went wrong here. It is just sad. Hopefully they throw the book at these parents. Hopefully they set an example, and maybe that will stop a senseless death that might have happened later.

Speaker 2: Good words. Scott, you bring up some very good points. Number one, the school failed the child, Casper. Child protective services failed. Law enforcement failed. What they should have done, as you stated, Scott, was that the school should have notified the department.

Speaker 1: Well, he was not in school, though.

Speaker 2: No, no. Let me finish. He should have been in school. So they should have contacted the Department of Children and Family Services. Why is this child not there? The Department of Children and Family Services could go there with law enforcement to check it out. They do an inspection of the house. It is dirty and filthy. They check the refrigerators.

Listen, I did this when I worked with the Department of Children and Family Services, the multi-agency response team from Child Protective Services. They would come with me because they have different laws they adhere to. I could take that child out like that, especially in gang homes.

So there are tools out there. The total system failed, which Scott mentioned, and I agree 110%. They should get the book thrown at them because, sad to say, they murdered this poor kid.

Speaker 1: They did not say what happened with the daughter. I am hoping--

Speaker 3: Well, the parents are in jail, so she is not in jail with them. She has been extracted, and hopefully she has a good, loving home that has her on a program. But they did not love these kids like parents should. I guarantee we all know that.

Hopefully she is getting the love and attention she deserves and should have been getting all along. It might save her life. Taking her out of that house might stop the cycle. It is horrible that she is not going to have her true mom and dad, but if a blood parent is that horrible and literally feeds them French fries and chips, and that is it, until they die of obesity at the age of seven, remove that child. That parent does not have the instincts or whatever you want to call it. They are missing something in their brain. They should not be parents.

Speaker 2: Right. The sad part of the story is that this girl is now going to have to grow up without her brother, and he lost his life.

Speaker 1: I agree. Good points, everybody. You bring up a good point, Chief Ralph, about the school, because he was in school at some point. That whole truancy thing means somebody there should have known.

There sure as heck better be a meeting, because I have attended those when you lose a child. There is a lot of finger-pointing because nobody wants the blame. They play that blame game, but they need a CAP, a corrective action plan, to make sure that scenario does not happen again.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Speaker 1: All right. Good coverage. I am glad we covered this one first.

Moving along, we have a story with a video component that I want to cover. The Chief definitely wants to cover this. It is on Rumble.com. This is one of our favorite law-enforcement video channels. We have body-camera footage released of a deadly shooting of a guy at a gas station. There is a struggle involved.

Speaker 4: You cannot use the bathroom right now.

Speaker 4: Why can't I?

Speaker 4: Because you are on a traffic stop.

Speaker 4: Why?

Speaker 4: There are no weapons on you?

Speaker 4: Hello.

Speaker 4: What is this?

Speaker 4: It is not bad. It is not bad.

Speaker 4: Hey, what are you doing? What are you doing?

Speaker 4: Let's just do that.

Speaker 4: David, step it up.

Speaker 4: What are you doing?

Speaker 4: I am doing this.

Speaker 4: It is not good.

Speaker 4: I am going to kick that gun.

Speaker 4: You are going to get shot.

Speaker 4: David, step it up!

Speaker 4: You got shot!

Speaker 4: Step back! Step back!

Speaker 4: I will do this gun! I will do this gun!

Speaker 1: We are in Oak Park, Illinois. This is back on May 31 at 9:10 in the evening. An Oak Park police officer initiated a traffic stop for a moving violation. Police said that during the pat-down of Christian Wallace, the officer found a concealed handgun.

We have body camera on the officer. It does not last long, though. All of a sudden, there is a struggle, and the guy is going for the gun. The cop is in a fight with him. The body cam gets dislodged, and then we kind of lose the visual from there. Thank God we have a dash cam that shows enough of what is going on.

You see the officer and the suspect get on the ground. The officer actually does a pretty good job. There was a metal trash can or something between the pumps, and he gets the guy's head into one of those.

When you have guys running and you are going to take them down, you always look for stationary objects, or at least I did, to assist you with the stop. You push them into it, or on the takedown they are going to hit something, because you need overwhelming force to end this thing quickly.

So he does that. They get on the ground. There are a couple of times when the guy stands up and they are grabbing body parts, swinging each other around, and then they go back down to the ground. But there is a point where the guy successfully gets up. The cop is on top of him, calling for backup and telling the guy to stop. The guy gets up, goes for the weapon, and moves away from the cop. We are watching the dash cam now.

You can see the officer going for his service weapon. The guy is going back to the car, and the bad guy's car has an open driver's door. We are not so much worried about what is in the car because we know he has the gun on him, in his waistband, and during the fight he has had his hand on that gun the whole time.

The guy breaks away. The officer grabs his service weapon, discharges it, and ends up striking the bad guy four times as he is running away. The suspect is pronounced dead. The gun was secured on the sidewalk after the bad guy went down after being shot. Previous reports said the serial numbers had been removed from it.

The officer remained on medical leave after suffering an injury during the incident, but the article did not say what the injury was.

Going back to my notes, initially when the guy reached the car, the car door was open, and he was getting away from the cop. He had access to the gun. The cop ends up firing. It is pretty easy to count five shots at the 11-minute-and-33-second mark. Then he fired four more shots in two-shot strings. So a total of nine shots, and they say he hit him four times, which is maybe a little better than average, almost 50%. Chief Ralph?

Speaker 2: First of all, I think I said before the show came on that I thought this officer did a great job once the engagement took place. I do not know what his name is. He must have had some skill in jiu-jitsu or something because he was flipping this guy all over the place.

At the same time, I commend his composure. Even in his voice: "David, get here quick. David, get here quick." He is still yelling respectful commands to this suspect. "Do not reach for it." He is pleading with this guy, and this guy keeps on going.

I have so much respect for this officer. When the suspect gets back to that doorway, as you said, and this guy is going for it, I am not sure if the guy wanted to get back in the car. But when he realized he could not, he went around the car. When the officer shot him, I have to tell you, that was some hell of a shooting on the move. That suspect was moving to the officer's left, and he followed him.

I will let Scott speak because I have some other things I want to say about what Scott said.

Speaker 1: Thirty seconds, Scott.

Speaker 3: The first thing I was going to say is exactly what you said about his composure. Under the circumstances, he was calm. He was not being disrespectful or kind of a jerk to the guy, like an authority figure, which sometimes can escalate things.

But being who I am, I could say the shooting could get a little bit better, although I will recognize that was a very, very difficult shot with a pistol. I will recognize that.

Speaker 1: All right. Good commentary, guys. We will be right back talking about the same story. Here is a commercial break. We will be right back.

[Commercial Break]

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Leo Round Table at LeoRoundTable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. I am joined by Chief Ralph Ornelis, all the way from California, and also Scott Stierd, former Green Beret and Delta Force operative.

We have been talking about a use of force on a traffic stop. It is a traffic infraction. The cop gets the bad guy out of the car, conducts a weapons pat-down, finds a gun, and the fight is on. They go up and down, off and on the ground, a few times. Finally, the bad guy is able to get up, gets away from the cop, and goes for the weapon. The cop unholsters and ends up firing nine shots, hitting the bad guy four times as he is running away from the cop.

That is another thing we should probably address. You have to be in fear of great bodily injury or death to yourself or somebody else. The backdrop is important because that is what would justify the shoot in this case.

Scott, anything else on this? I know the Chief wants to talk, but do you have anything? You are good.

Speaker 2: Scott and Chip were talking before on the break, but I have some points for law enforcement officers watching this, even seasoned or retired officers.

Number one, when you approach a car, you have to take verbal command. This officer said, "Hey, bro, how is it going?" The other thing is, he never said when he got there, "Let me see your hands." You can say that in a very respectful way, Scott, but with a tone that means you are in command: "Please put your hands on the steering wheel. I want to see your hands."

The whole time he was there, the suspect's right hand was down by his groin area. The other thing is, it took a long time before the window went down. I do not like that.

I have had this happen to me. I pulled into a gas station, and I did not like the lineup of me being too close to the garbage pail and the pump. So I got on the PA and said, "Pull your car forward and keep moving to the parking space."

If you look at this shooting, there are empty parking spaces over there. The reason I say that is that it is a psychological game. If this guy has something in mind and he is not going to listen to you, he is not going to move the car. If he does move the car, guess what? I have more room to open my car door and call him out by the PA.

If this guy does not come out, I am not approaching the car until I get adequate backup to address the issue. If he gets out and wants to run, let him run. He is not going to outrun a radio car or a radio. We will set up a containment, and you practice the five C's.

Speaker 3: That is a very good perspective. I did not even think about that, but you are absolutely right. If you can set the conditions, we always used to say that: set the conditions so they favor you.

If that was done right off the bat, it gives him that advantage. If the suspect does move forward and comply, then he probably has nothing to hide. I am not saying he definitely does not, but that is an indicator. It is also getting him to comply, whether he knows it or not. That is a powerful psychological tool.

You can see now how, being where it was, it just kind of snowballed and escalated. You are right. I have said this before: to me, one of the hardest things about being a cop is that, yes, you want to be in control, and you want to let them know, "This is what needs to happen." But it depends on the personality.

Some personalities are going to respond negatively if you are over-authoritative, and that can escalate. If you are too weak, they are going to see that as weakness. To me, that is the art of being a police officer. You go into a situation where you do not know anything about it, and you have literally a few seconds, maybe a minute, to establish that, figure out the situation, read the personality at play, and set a tone. Very insightful. That is incredible.

Speaker 1: I agree 100%, and in hindsight, it makes perfectly good sense now.

Speaker 2: Scott, I will tell you, my drill instructor in the training was a Green Beret in Vietnam. He is still alive at 84. I send him some of these videos, and we discuss them afterward. He worked the streets in a very busy area during the early 1970s. I love this man, and I call him all the time. He and I have great conversations.

Speaker 1: I think we should keep Chief Ralph on the show, Scott. What do you think?

Speaker 3: Absolutely. That was great.

Speaker 1: Very insightful.

All right, guys. You know we are going to have to talk about the BB gun rampage on the nude cyclists. I am not going to let that go. We have time for one more story, about four and a half minutes, so it is going to be that one.

A suspect was taken into custody on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon involving a BB gun, along with additional charges that have not been specified. I find it interesting that they classified the BB gun as a deadly weapon. We all know that, even if you know it is a BB gun, as I have always said, if I know it is a BB gun, I am still using lethal force on the guy because I can lose an eye. I do not have to be in fear of death. I can be in fear of great bodily injury. A BB gun can kill you too.

But they did say a deadly weapon involving a BB gun. They charged him with that, along with additional charges that have not been released yet. Authorities said two victims suffered lacerations during the incident. Again, it does not say where they were, so you can only imagine.

Video from the scene showed police arresting the guy, who was dressed in black, following the reported shooting. It occurred at the Los Angeles annual World Naked Bike Ride, an event that organizers hold each year during the summer months. Apparently, they have it at locations around the country.

Although participants ride with little or no clothing, and there is some body paint, the event operates under guidelines intended to distinguish it from sexually explicit conduct. Organizers prohibit lewd, sexually explicit exposure and characterize the event as an exercise in public expression and advocacy rather than entertainment.

They have not released additional information about what led to the incident, the motive, or anything like that. They have not disclosed the identities of either the suspect or the people who were injured. The victims' injuries were reported as lacerations. No life-threatening injuries were announced.

There you go. Scott, we have a little over two minutes. Why do you not take this one first?

Speaker 3: I was like you. I was thinking, where was he aiming? You have a BB gun and naked things flapping around there. I do not know. What do you think?

I would like to understand his motive. Was he seriously trying to mess with them? It still is assault, and it is really stupid.

When I was a kid, my brother and I would play war with BB guns, and we would shoot each other with BB guns. To be fair, it was not the pump-up kind where you could literally kill somebody. It was a little spring-fed BB gun. We would shoot each other with no eye protection or anything. That was totally stupid.

So what was his mindset? Was it, "I am just going to mess with these guys"? I am not saying that is right. It is still messed up. Or was he seriously trying to hurt them because of whatever reasons? I would like to hear more about it. I am interested.

Speaker 1: All right, Chief Ralph. Forty-nine seconds.

Speaker 2: I am glad they prosecuted him. He could have taken somebody's eye out. Even though I do not partake in nude bicycle riding, that is crazy. But there are sick people out there.

Speaker 1: I was kind of expecting more from the Chief on this one, Scott. I do not know about you. Riding your bike with no clothes on is dangerous. Things can get caught in things. You can fall down and get things ripped off. You can lose an eye from somebody shooting a BB gun. There are a lot of bad things that could happen.

Speaker 2: I will say this: I know the area, Temple and North Alameda, which is down the street from my previous command, the L.A. jail, Men's Central Jail. It is a very busy area, even during the weekends.

Speaker 1: I know that Bill BC on Rumble was saying that it was cold outside when he was riding and that we did not have to worry about anything getting caught in the spokes. That was his excuse.

Anyhow, it has been a great show. Thank you guys so much: Chief Ralph Ornelis from Huntington Beach, California, and also Scott Stierd, former Green Beret and Delta Force operative. Did you want to say something, Scott?

Speaker 3: No, I was just going to say, Ralph, it was great to see you again. It was awesome having you on the show, and hopefully I will get to see you again soon.

Speaker 2: You will, my friend. [Unclear aside.]

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