[00:13] Speaker 1: Welcome to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip The Block and I'm your host. And we're a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And let me introduce you to the crew, guys. If you don't mind waiting for the video portion of our show. Uh, he's back. Dr. Travis Yates, retired police major from the Tulsa Police Department, so thanks for being back on the show, uh, Doctor. Also, Scott Steiert. You know, he is with AeroPrecision and aeroprecisionusa.com, and of course has a, uh, an excellent, uh, background in special forces and, and with a, uh, a little outfit called Delta. So, uh, good deal. Uh, shout out to our sponsors. Uh, Gols, our title sponsor, gols.com. We also have complianttechnologies.com, our satellite sponsor. We have aeroprecisionusa.com, our arm sponsor, and that's Scott's company. We have gunlearn.com, americanair.livesafeguardrecruiting.com, our streaming sponsor.

[01:01] Speaker 1: And yes, we're streaming to over a million people on this live show right now. And twobelles.com, they built a new online store at leoroundtable.com. Please check out our gear. It's rock-bottom prices. We don't make a dime off of anything we sell. We want to keep the prices low for you guys. And also, fishorlandobass.com. Zach has got a bass fishing charter at fishorlandobass.com. Uh, yeah, in the Orlando area. Check that out. Also, shout out to Brian Burns from the Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com. Thanks for carrying our content, Brian. Ray Dietrich from alarmin.com, same thing. And finally, our own Travis Yates on the show with lawoficer.com. Thanks to all those entities for helping make this show happen. And now, what in the world are we talking about? Travis, I thr- I threw in an article, uh, that I didn't tell you about. But I figured, you know, since you wrote it, th- there, there was no need... I was holding it for you and then you signed up for today's show.

[01:47] Speaker 1: Um, but we've got, uh, politicians are creating chaos with these, these words. And, uh, I... You know what I'm talking about when I say it's about ICE. And, uh, you know, we... So we're gonna do our Minneapolis thing, get people caught up on what's going on in Minneapolis. We've also got Jacksonville firefighters, plural, arrested after a paintball attack hits a police cruiser. Are you, are you kidding me? I was disappointed to see that. Uh, body cam shows Chicago police officer, uh, shooting a bad guy in the back of the head. And this is another glove, uh, potential glove story to where it, it, it likely would have been able to prevent this from happening. And yeah, the officer took a ride in a car and he shot the guy in the back of the head that was driving. Greenville Sheriff's Office determines deadly, uh, deputy shooting of a knife-wielding suspect was justified. We have 10 officers. Uh, they are outed for cheating at the Mount Pleasant Police Department.

[02:34] Speaker 1: And we got a video showing Miami-Dade deputy fatally shooting an armed suspect, uh, outside Walmart, but he did it when the suspect, uh, disengaged from him a- and was running away. We're gonna, we're gonna talk about that and about the justification of the shoot. And then finally, we have a woman armed with a knife fatally shot by a Grand Forks County sheriff's deputy. So, uh, that's what we have. If you guys are all ready, let's go on and get into the Minneapolis stuff. I'll tell you, there's stuff going on there every day. We had a... We had a wild, wild show yesterday. It was, uh, um, a little bit of heated debate going on. So this one, these sources are lawoficer.com is our first source and then w- a- and actually, we have numerous stories from them. We have the Liberty Daily at- which is on Rumble. Dailycaller.com, truesocial.com, and that is the, uh, Donald J. Trump, uh, page. So, we're starting off with politicians are creating chaos with these words.

[03:27] Speaker 1: And a few weeks ago, uh, Travis said that he started noticing a dangerous trend, uh, online. I noticed it too, but, uh, but Travis wrote this great article. Uh, police and border agents, or ICE, uh, they, they're saying that they're not law enforcement. And he goes on to say that just days after the trend started, uh, the partner of Rene Good, remember the female they said that was her wife b- and ended up not being? Uh, she was heard on video saying that she couldn't believe ICE had real bullets. So we've got a rumor going around that they're not real cops. And then we got another... Th- then the... We have somebody being surprised they've got real bullets. And after the second ICE shooting in Minneapolis, Governor Tim Walz repeated the claim that ICE was not law enforcement. So I've got other stories under the headline, but Travis, I thought we'd start off with this one and just, uh, talk about, you know, what's going on. And people are kind of...

[04:13] Speaker 1: You know, if they hear it enough, they're gonna start thinking ICE isn't real. They're not real cops.

[04:18] Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, this is not uni- unique. It's in the playbook, right? I mean, you can go back to 2020 when they... And what they do is they dehumanize, uh, groups of people. In, in 2020 they dehumanized police officers. They're, they're brutal. They're Nazis. They're not this. They don't have this. And everyone decided, they start attacking police officers. And it's ironic that ever since 2020, assaults on officers have increased every single year since that. And in fact, uh, I saw it in a study in the article where it said that... And this was a study they did in 2021 and they, they asked them. They said, you know, "What's your political affiliation?" They asked them how many unarmed Blacks were killed last year. And as you cro- go across the political lines, the numbers changed, but what was striking was, those identified as liberal said that there were 10,000 Blacks shot unarmed by police the previous year. The real number was 12. Okay? So... And I...

[05:08] Speaker 2: What I've always said, and I cited that article, is that... Listen, if I was a complete idiot and I believed that, I'd probably be in the streets stealing TVs too. I mean, that's an outrageous thing to believe. Well, here we are, 2026, and it's the exact same playbook. The propaganda makes people believe certain things, and there's a segment of society that will react on that propaganda. That's why I think what these politicians... And it's not just the Twitter spirits saying it. Tim Walz has said it. Jacob Frye has said it. These politicians are saying publicly... And, and in fact, Walt said it after the second shooting, "Quit referring to them as ICE," is what he s- as, as law enforcement is what he said. The idea that ICE isn't law enforcement is insane. They all know they're law enforcement. They can enforce federal law. They, they know this. So why are they saying it?

[05:54] Speaker 2: They're saying it because this, they trigger for crazy, insane people to act out and c- and create chaotic scenes, which is exactly what's happening. And then... And so it's hard to not see that and not understand how these shootings are not put on them as accountability. I mean-... we've had none of these politicians in Minnesota say something like this: "You can protest, it's your right, but do not confront law enforcement doing their job. It's dangerous." None of them will say that. Why won't they say that? Because they want them to act out. And, uh, it's, it's really... I don't think many people's pointing this out. You cannot say they aren't law enforcement without knowing it's gonna trigger people to go, "Well, they're just mass people kidnapping Americans. They're, they're like Gestapo. They're like Nazis." So, what do you do to Nazis? You fight Nazis. This is the, what is happening over and over and over again.

[06:46] Speaker 2: And the reason we need to hold them accountable is because this is what they keep doing. They did it in 2020. They're doing it now. They'll do it later on. They'll keep doing it, and it's creating a real dangerous environment. I mean, Chip, if people don't understand what I'm saying, imagine the job you do. Maybe you're an accountant or maybe you work at Walmart. Every day when you try to do your job, there's 30 or 40 people driving their car around you, throwing stuff at you, screaming at you. You would not be able to do your job. That's the environment that this type of rhetoric has created. And so, yes, there's given shootings. Of course there has been. Everywhere they go is a dangerous environment. There's people bringing guns to these environments.

[07:26] Speaker 2: And listen, I didn't even mention this in the article, but just a couple weeks ago, the liberals were hell in a photograph that was all over the internet of a guy standing in front of his house with an AR-15 saying he's protecting his neighborhood from ICE. And they were just praising this man, which I said at the time, "You can't do that in front of law enforcement doing their job because that's not just resistance now, that's an imminent threat." And if you do that, it's one thing to scream at a police officer, but if you scream at a police officer while you hold a gun, you're creating the imminent threat which will create deadly force." And it was just two weeks after that we started seeing these shootings. And so, this has all been perpetrated by the politicians. So regardless of your political views, regardless what you think about ICE, think about that environment that they've created. Of course this is going to happen.

[08:14] Speaker 3: Yeah. And I wonder, (clears throat) I wonder if Governor Walz and the mayor is gonna be held accountable. There's no doubt. Like, this, this is, uh, it's just like you said, this is a playbook. This is what, this is what we would do if the CIA went and, and go to another country, sow unrest, maybe we... it's in our, uh, interest, the US interest to kind of destabilize a govern... This is what we do. This is a playbook. This is being orchestrated from... Uh, I guarantee you, there's outside influence orchestrating this. Guarantee it. Now, and I hope they c- they, they collect that. So, but you said something very important. These idiots, you have to be an idiot. They're useful idiots. If only these people realize they're being played. The, it, it's... Imagine this. 'Cause I, I, I thought about this, 'cause I was like, "Man, they keep saying that ICE, you know, is not a law enforcement." Then I, I Google it. Yes, of course, they are.

[09:08] Speaker 3: Imagine if it was, say, I don't know, the FBI, uh, US Marshals. Put any other federal government, you know, or federal law enforcement agency and now say, is it still okay? Is it okay to, to, you know, go after, when they're doing their job? They're, they're literally... It's a law. It's a law. It's like these guys are doing it. So, thi- this is crazy. And, and, and the, and these, these idiots, they're being played and i- it's, it's out of control. And I, and I blame the freaking politicians, all these leaders. They're the ones because they... These people, these useful idiots that are running around doing this, they think they have coverage from the top. It's not only do they think that they have, you know, they're legally okay to do it, they think they're gonna be okay and protected from the top because that's what's been going on in Minnesota forever. Just look aside. Don't worry about the crimes.

[10:00] Speaker 3: W- you know, as long as we're in power, as long as we're in office, they're gonna vote for us. Let all this fraud, let all this... We've created an environment, it is bad. And I guarantee you, the, the, Minnesota's not the only state. And, um, and yeah, so now we ha- we can't just stop 'cause then it's like, oh, mob rule. So in other words, you know, you start, you know, shooting people, threatening people, po- posting up people on federal agents as they come through, that's okay. W- so we can't leave this like it is. Uh, we set a precedent. So it's, it's bad, man. It's really bad.

[10:29] Speaker 2: Well, it's, it's clearly leadership issue, Scott, 'cause this only happened in Minnesota.

[10:33] Speaker 3: Absolutely.

[10:33] Speaker 2: ICE is not all across the country doing this.

[10:36] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[10:36] Speaker 2: It's only happening there.

[10:38] Speaker 3: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's so obvious. So I hope they're gonna d- I hope they're gonna do the right thing. I hope they... This is, this sounds on so many level-

[10:49] Speaker 1: All right, guys. It's time for our next commercial break. Stick with us. We'll be right back.

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[12:38] Speaker 1: Again, complianttechnologies forward slash M-I-T-E-K. Because the best defense starts with the right protection. And when you go, make sure you watch those cool videos of the glove. They're absolutely amazing. Complianttechnologies.com. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip Devlock, and I'm your host. And we're a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And, uh, we've got, uh, Dr. and Retired Major, uh, Travis Yates from the Tulsa Police Depart-... f-... uh, Tulsa Police Department, TPD. It sounds like my agency from Tampa. And then we have Scott Stagg with Aero Precision, also a former Green Beret and Delta Force member. Um, guys, we've been talking about Minneapolis. I have some other headlines that I want to throw in the mix real quick here before we continue. Um, Minneapolis hotel protest that turns violent outside, uh, Home2 Suites.

[13:26] Speaker 1: And, uh, that video, uh, was almost as bad as the- the next one. Anti-ICE rioters trashed a Minnesota hotel they believed ICE officers were staying at, and it, it was pathetic. Minnesota cops surrender an entire city or entire city blocks, plural, to lawless rioters. That said that, the, um, uh, the, uh, DCNF observed a crowd protesting at the hotel for more than two hours while blocking the road with debris. And the Minnesota State Police, um, they, uh, w-... they were about to encircle the group for arrests, but then the feds showed up and they... without being asked to. And it says that, um, they were shown a clip and they were saying Minneap-... they were saying, "Hey, where- where's the local PD, the Minneapolis police?" That's what an armed federal agent shouted while guarding the, the Minneapolis hotel, and he's bleeding from his ha-... his face and his hands 'cause the local cops aren't there to help him out.

[14:18] Speaker 1: And, uh, but they will send them out into the scene if there's a shooting by the feds 'cause they want to go in and seize the scene, grab the evidence and stuff for potential prosecution of our federal partners. The, uh, DCNF only saw one local police officer on the scene at the hotel lobby, which I'm assuming he was working off duty. And a day prior, rioters used trash cans, dumpsters, chairs, and other debris to form a barricade around an intersection on Saturday night, creating a law enforcement-free zone reminiscent of Seattle, Washington's Capitol Hill autonomous zone, or they called CHAZ, uh, back in, uh, in, in 2020. And, you know, yeah, we're not done yet. Then we've got, um, uh, well, it says, "Pro tip. When law enforcement throws a bang, uh, or a flashbang near you, don't pick it up and try to throw it back." Um, I don't know if you guys saw the video, but that was priceless.

[15:05] Speaker 1: Um, and MBS is talking about it over on Rummel right now, but yeah, Governor Tim Walz calling, uh, the president. So, Tim Walz called the president. The president said on Truth Social that it was a good call, and they seem to be on a similar wavelength. I know that the president's changing his strategy in Minnesota right now. I don't know if it's solely because of the call or not. Uh, and then we got Minneapolis Police Chief, uh, O'Connor saying that it doesn't matter if the shooting was justified. He says that, um, the city has reached a dangerous tipping point, warning of the public anger over the recent, uh, federal-involved shootings. He says it's so intense that a legal justification that comes later on through the court may not be enough to calm the streets. So, that's what he's saying. Um, Travis?

[15:45] Speaker 2: Yeah. First, I want to address one of your commenters here named Mary. She says, "It sounds like you think January 6th was a peaceful protest." This is the brain loss that Scott and I are talking about. What does what we're talking about have anything to do with January 6th? January 6th was violent. 2020 was violent. This is violent. So, you got to, you got to step away from CNN and MSNBC and just think about this. You cannot look at the images in Minneapolis and try to go, "Yeah, but January 6th..." What are you talking about? It makes no sense whatsoever. I don't even know what your question was, Chip. What was the question?

[16:20] Speaker 1: (laughs) No, I was just, uh, asking you to give a comment here. I just went through all the other articles, including, uh, the one about the, uh, the female that picked up the flashbang. And, uh, and then she's running through the crowd with her hand in the air.

[16:30] Speaker 2: The whole, the whole thing is just insanity. And the idea that nobody from a leadership position is telling people, "Stop rioting, stop attacking law enforcement." They're saying the opposite. They're encouraging it. And so, listen. I know Walz called Trump, but Walz is never gonna do what Trump said. Trump said, "I will pull out the Border Patrol because they are having to assist ICE because of the crowds. So, I'll pull out Border Patrol if you, A, give me your current prisoners in state custody that are illegal immigrants. We'll... Give, give us to 'em so we can deport 'em the way the law says. And B, your local police will cooperate with us when they arrest a, an illegal immigrant. We can come pick 'em up and deport them as the law says." Walz will never do that 'cause he cares more about the chaos than he does actually solving it. So, that's all for naught. And Trump should not back down.

[17:21] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[17:21] Speaker 2: This is a crime.

[17:23] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[17:23] Speaker 2: And it... This is a crime that has been on the books for decades. The same politicians moaning about this are the ones that passed the law on illegal immigration. I mean, Trump's got nothing on Barack Obama. I mean, he deported over three million people during his tenure. And, uh, what, who did he use to do that, Chip? Oh, that's right. He used ICE.

[17:41] Speaker 1: ICE, yeah.

[17:42] Speaker 2: Nobody seemed to care because people, people lose their minds when they see the propaganda, and the propaganda wasn't there then.

[17:49] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[17:50] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[17:51] Speaker 3: 100%.

[17:52] Speaker 1: Ex- ex- excellent point. You know, when we... There's things they could do. They could invoke a curfew.... an- an- an enforceable curfew. Uh, they're not doing it, and I mentioned yester- on yesterday's show that they even have, uh, prohibited, uh, by city ordinance in Minneapolis from wearing facial coverings, things to disguise yourself when you show up in public, but they're not doing that either. So yeah, they're... I believe... I- I- I agree with you, Travis. They are absolutely love what's going on, and it helps take the distraction. The governor certainly loves it because it's taken the distraction of the S- of the Somali, you know, corruption off, you know, off of his shoulders because he's not in the limelight anymore. He's making, he's making sure that ICE stays in the limelight.

[18:27] Speaker 2: Well, he's being investigated criminally for that. He knew about that and didn't do anything about it. In fact, that's the only reason he's not running again. In fact, he's liable to have to resign based on that. But you're right, that's sort of delaying all that and keeping that out of the headlines.

[18:39] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[18:39] Speaker 2: Although it's not in the mainstream headlines, it's just in the, in the headlines of-

[18:42] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Doesn't, it d- it doesn't fit the news. (clears throat) And let, let's not, let's not forget, if the last president didn't let in, I don't know, I've heard anything- anywhere from 10 million to 30 billion illegal immigrants, um, probably wouldn't be doing this anyhow. It's probably not, it's probably not even necessary. But, I mean, somebody's got to do it. I mean, it's like, it's like, what do you expect? I mean, these people are here ille- I mean, it has to be done. You have to remove them because it's just, w- it's a drain on our society. You can't handle it. To be honest with you.

[19:14] Speaker 2: Well, and take, and take a, take a step back from all this. What are the two issues that the left has go- completely lost their mind about in the last 12 months? Fraud, uh, Doge, fraud, and illegal immigration. That's what they've focused on in the last 12 months.

[19:31] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[19:31] Speaker 2: So, consider why. Well, fraud is their power for money, and immigration is their power for voting bloc.

[19:38] Speaker 3: Well, that, they need the, they need the immigrants there in order to get the welfare systems to abuse and become rich. 'Cause I think it, that's why it was the Somalis. I mean, it's, it's because, you know, they're preying on the, you know, the, the niceness of American... Like, we're very giving people, and they come in there, and then, of course, and you have the politicians that are going, "Oh, wait a minute, and, uh, I can have power, power." You know?

[20:03] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[20:03] Speaker 3: All you gotta do, I got... These people are guaranteeing that they're gonna, they're gonna rally the troops, they're gonna vote for me, I just gotta line their pockets and make them happy. And they look the other way.

[20:15] Speaker 1: Great timing, Scott. Time for our second commercial break, guys. Stick with us, we'll be right back. All right, guys. Introducing AeroDefense by AeroPrecision at aeroprecisionusa.com, a beacon of durability, dependability, and all-American craftsmanship in the realm of duty rifles. And yes, we're talking about Scott's favorite subject, long guns. They're born from an aerospace engineering company, so you know these guys know what they're doing. And AeroDefense by AeroPrecision demands perfection because settling for anything less is not an option when your life is on the line. Visit aeroprecisionusa.com for a lineup that matches every discipline because they basically have something for everybody. And, you know, back since 1994, they've been quietly leading the AR builder parts domain, but now they're making waves in the complete rifle arena with soulless bolt actions.

[20:54] Speaker 1: And that's not all, their M4E1 Pro and MOD4 handguards, they already hit the market at aeroprecisionusa.com, the embodiments of duty rifle excellence, but now they're being tailored for the civilian customer, which means that now you guys can start getting your hands on the primo stuff. And their AR, um, 308 M5, uh, that platform is nothing short of spectacular. So don't settle for less when you can have the best. Head over to aeroprecisionusa.com. Again, aeroprecisionusa.com. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block, and I'm your host. We're joined by Dr. Travis Shakes, retired police major from the Tulsa Police Department, and also Scott Stire, former Green Beret and Delta Force, and he also works for aeroprecisionusa.com. And, uh, yeah, I, uh, I got con- I got... Something happened on the break, and I got confused, but now I, now I'm back on track. So we're back from commercial break.

[21:42] Speaker 1: Um, we were, uh, uh, they were giving some final words on what was going on in Minneapolis, and we decided to jump into a lawofficer.com story about Jacksonville firefighters being arrested after a paintball attack hits a police cruiser, um, but not while he's driving. It was stationary. And of course, if anybody knows anything about paintballs, um, i- i- it's a, it's a ball the size of what? Maybe a marble, and it's, it, but it's got, it's synthetic and it, it pops. It's got, you know, some kind of stained, uh, some kind of a, a, you know, paint in it or whatever, paintball. So this Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, they arrest four fire rescue people from Jacksonville, and they say that they were partaking in a prank, uh, paintball war, and that it escalated to the point where it reached criminal misconduct, which I still find hard to believe.

[22:29] Speaker 1: And according to the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, on December, Monday, the 29th, 2025, we've got, in LaVilla neighborhood, we've got an officer. He's driving, he sees multiple impacts on his patrol vehicle, and he stops to inspect the damage. He finds several green paint splatters on the marked unit, and then a civilian reported that their vehicle was hit in the same manner. So officers respond to the call, they locate... They're spending a lot of man-hours do- looking at this for paintball. They locate multiple green paint splatters on the roadway and surrounding structures. Do... It's just like the highlight for crime in Jacksonville. Ignoring an I-95 traffic sign and a one-way sign, a dumpster, and an abandoned building, I guess they all had, you know, paintball marks on them. Investigators believe the, the paint was fired from a high-velocity launcher from an elevated position. You know, it's, it's, it... I doubt it was going more than 300 feet a second like a BB or pellet gun.

[23:22] Speaker 1: I don't know if I can say it's high velocity. During the initial response, officers reported observing firefighters quickly. Uh, they ran to the fire station and they closed the doors and, uh, then they, uh, they questioned them. They found out about the prank war going on between fire stations and, uh, they said it was a back and forth going on and, uh, they said that evidence included 14 red and green paintballs that were found on the roof of the fire station. So they (laughs) were up there playing sniper, I guess, and they had shields and all kinds of stuff up there. So anyhow, um, they did a big investigation. Firefighters were arrested on a misdemeanor charge of, uh, criminal mischief.... which means that you're destroying property. And, uh, they were reassigned administrative duties during the internal investigation by the Jacksonville Fire and Rescue Department. And they interviewed Chief, uh, or Sheriff TK Waters and Chief Percy Golden Jr., who works for Fire Rescue.

[24:12] Speaker 1: Um, Scott Stier.

[24:15] Speaker 3: This reminds me of an incident I did when I was a kid. I mean, this is something you would do as a kid. This is like te- this is a... Uh, uh, and I know that, you know, it was, it was innocent, you know, but... Uh, and firefighters, they have a lot of downtime. This is what I know about firefighters. (laughs)

[24:32] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[24:32] Speaker 3: They, they get to hang out all day, work out, you know, uh, clean their, clean their gear over and over again. You know, and then, and then go out and do, do something great, right? But they have a lot of downtime. You know, it was a, it was bad decision-making. Uh, it complete- completely harmless. I don't even, I can't believe this has been made into such a big deal. Um, I can understand them being, being punished at, at some level internally. I think this could have been taken care of internally. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's just, uh, uh, you know, it's, it's very immature and childish at the end of the day.

[25:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think before the citizens jump up and go, "You need to hold these public safety people accountable," you're watching YouTube videos on how the people are doing similar stuff. Okay? Just let's just get off your high horse, right? This is just horseplay. This is, uh, what sometimes what guys do to other guys, right? It's the whole police/fireman-

[25:24] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[25:24] Speaker 2: ... you know, back and forth. And I, and listen, what I hope is this shouldn't affect these guys' careers long term. This was a mistake in the moment. I hope, for goodness sake, that they, they don't have to look back at this 10, 20 years and go, "I lost my entire career over this." So I don't know. I'm kind of surprised it went criminal. I'm just thinking there's probably a lot of things you could have done that would have hurt them worse than going criminal, right? Uh, because there's a lot of dirty things that firemen may have to do that they could put on those guys for a few years. My son's a fireman, so I understand that. He, you know, he does clean a lot, Scott. He starts, you know, stuff like that. I think he makes his bed when he gets there, but y- you know what I mean. So, um, this was surprising because when I l- think back of all the horseplay that maybe or maybe I wasn't involved in in my career, this is kind of nothing.

[26:09] Speaker 2: Like I can remember a guy opening his car with a bunch of snakes in it before, right? Because he'd made the mistake of telling his coworkers he was scared of snakes. Well, that was all you got to tell a bunch of cops is you're scared of snakes, and you're going to get snakes the rest of your career.

[26:20] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[26:21] Speaker 2: So, so this is kind of par for the course. I don't know whether the civilian's car getting hit created this, because that's obviously a problem if the civilian wants to file charges. But I would certainly hope that the police would have a little bit of thicker skin and, you know, we'd just get them back and wouldn't get caught.

[26:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I'm disappointed-

[26:37] Speaker 2: I believe it.

[26:37] Speaker 1: ... to see the criminal component on this thing. I, I don't, I- I- I'll be surprised if it makes it through the State Attorney's Office. I hope they're sharper than that, so. But, um, guys, moving along, we've got... I've been waiting to get to this story, so let's get to this one. We have yet another c- another cop getting drug by a car, and, um, I can't believe it. We had, we had one yesterday, so at rumble.com, uh, ThisIsButter is the channel, our favorite law enforcement video channel. We got body cam shows Chicago police officers shooting Roberto Calvalero Jr., but in the back of the head.

[27:09] Speaker 5: Hey, stop right there! Stop right there! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Hey, hey! Stop, stop, stop, stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! 20 or 60%. Stop! Stop! Get down! Come on! Oh, shit! Shit! I said, I said... Oh, man. Oh, oh. Oh, my God. Help me, please. Hey, help, help. Hello! Oh, my God. Where were you shot? Where were you shot? Right in the head. Come on, let me get an ambulance over here. (sirens) Oh. Stay right there!

[27:47] Speaker 1: And there's, uh, multiple, uh, videos on this. I think the second one almost shows more than the first one does, which is the first one is the cop wearing the body cam when he's getting drug. It's kind of hard to tell what's, what's going on. Uh, but Chicago police say that a 20-year-old guy was shot and killed. They later identified him as Roberto Calvalero Jr., and he allegedly tried to steal a car in the Arcadia Terrace neighborhood, and he had two other guys with him. With Chicago police officers. Um, so here, here's what happens. It's 10:30 at night, Tuesday, December the 9th. They're in a place called West Ridge, and the officers are, are doing an investigation. They're setting up on a stolen, unoccupied vehicle. So they're, they're waiting to see who comes to get into the car. It's stolen, they probably ran the plate, and now they're sitting on it. So as the officers are watching the stolen vehicle, another car, sure enough, pulls up. It's a dark-colored sedan.

[28:37] Speaker 1: It's got two dudes and a woman in it. And they pull up alongside the stolen car. So our bad guy, uh, Calvalero, he gets out and another guy get out, and, uh, they attempt to enter the stolen vehicle. And that's when the officers start moving in. Now, a physical confrontation happens with Calvalero, and, um, police contend that the o- apprehending officer in question, they fired their weapon after the suspect attempted to speed off in the car. And police say that as the officers tried to pull our bad guy from the car, he accelerated and dragged an officer. Now, this is the point to where I think the glove would be a perfect tool, as long as you have skin, and we had skin. Um, it says that the officer, while being dragged, he opened fire on the suspect, striking him shortly before the car crashes into an occup- um, occupied vehicle. Later in the article, the family's complaining about, you know, their son being, you know, shot in the back of the head.

[29:27] Speaker 1: So I'm assuming he, he got shot in the back of the head. And that it was effective, because the car went on and, and it crashed, and, and that was over. And, um, Attorney David B. Owens, he's representing the bad guy's family. And, uh, yeah, they're, they don't like the fact that he was, um, shot in the back of the head. I'm looking back at my, um, you know, at my show notes and stuff. Uh, I... There are two videos, like I said earlier. The second one really shows the officer, you know, getting dragged. And then, and then the officer, after the fact, when he goes on the scene and they take the bad guy out of the car, he's like lo- he's like... He's, he's losing it. I mean, he just...He's losing it. And, uh, I wished someone... I was waiting for someone to get him and just set him down and get him to calm down. You know, because he's, he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off. He just... It was a lot of... It was very traumatic for him.

[30:15] Speaker 1: Um, Scott, you want to take this one first?

[30:17] Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, uh, what did, what did the guy think he, was, was gonna happen? I mean, it's unfortunate. Um, but, uh, you know, the officer was in fear for his life. He could have easily been run over, uh, you know, so... Uh, I, I... And actually when I watched it, I was like, "What just happened?" It was so fast. Um-

[30:35] Speaker 1: I thought that he might have-

[30:36] Speaker 3: I didn't-

[30:36] Speaker 1: It looked like... If he didn't, if, if he didn't get run over, it looked like that rear tire barely missed his leg when it- when he, when he let go and released after being dragged.

[30:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. It, it was a, it was a very, uh, uh, fast-evolving violent situation that happened very fast. Um, and the officer did, you know... He was, in, in my opinion, he was, uh, 100%, um, justified in doing that. He was protecting himself. Um, so, I mean, hey, he was fast, he was fast to think. It, it, it's unfortunate that it happened but, you know, you don't... We don't know who's in there and our cops don't... They don't know that guy. And, um, and he did... I saw there was a, uh, a pistol in his, in his waistband.

[31:14] Speaker 3: I don't know if, if you saw that when they were doing the CPR-

[31:17] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

[31:18] Speaker 3: ... and all that stuff. So, I mean, you know, there... You can't... You know, you can't look into the future. You can't read any, any tea leaves. Um, the officer was fighting for his life, so... It's... Like I said, it's, it's unfortunate because who knows, man? It could have been either a career criminal that was a piece of crap and he deserved what he got, or could have been just some young punk trying to have fun. But at the end of the day, you know, you don't...

[31:42] Speaker 3: You can't do that-

[31:42] Speaker 1: Comply.

[31:42] Speaker 3: And ex-... Yeah. You c-... Don't be so stupid. It's like, you know, if you do something and you... It's just like all these protests. If you just comply, if you just don't fight back, because if you're guilty, if you're guilty then... I mean, I, I have been confronted by cops many times and, um, "Yes, sir." "No, sir." "Hands up." Never had a problem. Well, I did one time but I deserved it because I fought back.

[32:04] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[32:04] Speaker 3: I fought the cops and guess what? I lost. And, uh, so... But, uh, yeah.

[32:09] Speaker 1: There's a huge disconnect. Uh, I'm not sure where it's at. Maybe it's they're listening to their friends or the politicians, but we've got to somehow put... stop putting the blame on police officers that are having to use force based on the actions of a suspect. You cannot do that and expect to be healthy afterwards. I don't know what... I, I don't know if they think that just can't happen or what, but, I mean, we're seeing that a lot and it's just got to stop somehow. Well, guys, commercial break. When we come back, we're gonna talk about if the glove would have been useful in this one. Be right back. All right, guys. It's time to talk about GunLearn at gunlearn.com. And you know, as law enforcement officers, we deal with guns every day, but it's what we don't know about them that gets us into trouble. Injuries, civil lawsuits, accidental discharges, misidentifications, lost prosecutions, disciplinary issues, but GunLearn.com, they have your back.

[32:57] Speaker 1: You can quickly become extremely firearm knowledgeable by simply learning 14 training modules from the convenience of your home or your office or by attending a live seminar at GunLearn.com. You can also become a safe, accurate and confident certified firearms specialist like our very own Captain Brett Bartlett, and also attorney Ken Affianco. Now, the course has had huge success in raising the bar of firearm knowledge and GunLearn has been a trusted source since way back in 2011 by gun manufacturers, federal agencies, forensic organizations and police departments nationwide. Now, here's the deal, the best deal. Uh, the founder, Dan O'Kelly has got a deal for you if you have your own agency. You can actually host a seminar for absolutely no cost, which is an amazing opportunity. You can go to GunLearn.com to get more information. Again, GunLearn.com. Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock and I'm your host.

[33:44] Speaker 1: We're joined by Dr. Travis Yates, retired police major from the Tulsa Police Department and Scott Styart, uh, former Green Beret and Delta Force member, also with aeroprecisionusa.com. You know, we're talking about a, um, a story. I believe, I believe it was Chicago if I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, and it's about a cop getting, getting dragged shooting the bad guy, the driver in the back of the head and, uh, I don't know how many shots. It could have just been one shot, family's not happy. That's okay. We got, uh, you know, we got accomplish life. Look, there are... We're not saying... We don't like cops getting dragged by cars because it can, it can be avoided most of the time. But I'm not saying that there are not instances where it could happen because there are. There are situations maybe you've got kids in the back seat and someone's abducted the kid.

[34:26] Speaker 1: You stop them and you have to go in the car and you're trying to get the kids out and then something happens and the guy is trying to extract or whatever, you know, and you don't want to take him off with the kids. There's always, there's always ways things can happen legitimately but I want to talk about the glove. Uh, we covered a story on yesterday's show. Travis and I just got hooked up with the glove, um, from Compliant Technologies last week and, um, and we would both testify it was a wild ride, extremely effective. But what kind of a difference would it have made if that officer would have had maybe just one of, one of two gloves on his hand when he was trying to extract that driver? We don't see these shootings anymore. It's that simple. Um, obviously, uh, you know, we, we, we took this ride last week, Chip, and I understood it was probably an effective tool because I've seen other tools in law enforcement that were effective.

[35:16] Speaker 1: I had no idea this was the most effective tool that the profession could ever have. This ends at least half of all deadly force shootings today. It ends all these things we're seeing on a daily basis. The idea that this is not the most widely purchased and given out tool to law enforcers today is insanity to me. I cannot believe it, uh, that that's not happening. Quite frankly, I'm not... I'm very frustrated by it. It concerns me that if we have leaders that do not see the value in this. Now maybe they were like me and they didn't understand the value. I am telling you right now, I spent 30 years in this profession. Before that, my dad spent 27 years in this profession. Before that, my dad's father spent 25 years in this profession. I'm telling you right now, I'm telling you, there's been nothing like this. This ends all of these videos that we keep seeing that nobody likes Right. Use of force doesn't look good on video. It ends it. It ends it tomorrow.

[36:06] Speaker 1: And so people need to really check it out.You know, let's talk about that glove challenge to let people know what's going on. And we're gonna try to do a better job. We've got a l- just over a month before, um, this will come through fruition. Um, so right now there's a landing page. If you go to thewoundedblue.org and you look under the events section, you'll see a, it's a landing page but really it's, it's a graphic. It doesn't say click here, um, so you have to click on the graphic. We're gonna try to change some of that to make it a little more easy to understand. And when you go to, um, the Wounded Blue it says glove challenge but it gives the dates of SHOT Show, January 20th through the 23rd, and it kinda, it kinda gives the impression that the contest is over but it's not. So, um, if you go there and you want to donate, here, here's, here's how it works and this is how you can win a pair of the gloves. They're valued about, a little over $1700 a pair and you can win a pair.

[37:00] Speaker 1: And the person, uh, that got gloved, uh, that made it the longest would be able to get a pair too. Now they can't be owned by an individual so it would have to go through an agency but if you're, even if you're active and you work at a agency, you could donate them to your agency. They technically wouldn't own them and you could be, um, trained and carry them, um, assuming that your agency will let you. So the way it works, go to thewoundedblue.org and under the events section you'll find the glove challenge. Click on that, it takes you to a donation page. Make a donation to the Wounded Blue and either put, uh, Dr. Travis Yates' name or put my name, Chip DeBlock, when you make the donation. And then at the end of February, the end of next month, uh, the people that filmed it and timed it, they're gonna release who the... It's really, we're all, we're all, we're all winners on this thing, you know.

[37:47] Speaker 1: Uh, uh, the r- the big, the biggest winners is, um, is, uh, com- is, um, the Wounded Blue. Uh, but the person that, that lasted the longest will end up getting a pair of gloves. The person that lasts the longest without complying, I should say. And then the person that donates in that person's name the most amount of money, they will win a pair of the gloves as well. So it's a win-win. They're giving away two pair of gloves and, uh, you can enter that contest, you know, right now by going to the Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org.

[38:14] Speaker 1: Did I, did I leave anything out, Travis

[38:16] Speaker 2: No, that's it.

[38:17] Speaker 1: Yeah. So, uh, and they'll... And I think that during the four weeks or so before the announcements are made, they pick winners and stuff, um, we're gonna be releasing little portions of video or freeze frames of the applica- 'Cause it was, we were being filmed and I haven't even, I, I don't even know what my face looked like, Travis. I know what Travis' face looked like but I don't even know what my face looked like.

[38:37] Speaker 2: Well, Chip-

[38:38] Speaker 1: But-

[38:38] Speaker 2: Chip was very manly here and said, "Oh, I'll go first. I'll go first."

[38:43] Speaker 1: (laughs) Oh, dude.

[38:43] Speaker 2: So I had to go watch-

[38:44] Speaker 1: I, I'm gonna go rethink that. (laughs)

[38:45] Speaker 2: ... I had to watch him go first before I did it.

[38:48] Speaker 3: So let me ask you. When, when, uh, when you were stimulated, did you go into the fetal position? Like, like I mean, like you get hit and you, you go down and what's cool is since you don't lose your, your, your motor skills, you, you still intuitively kinda, kinda break your fall. At least I do. Like I'll c- and I'll go down and I'll kinda break my fall. But I always end up, and everybody, most everybody I see, they end up in a fetal position and no one can understand why.

[39:13] Speaker 1: You know, with, with me, um... And I, I'm gonna be careful how I, you know, how much information we give out. But with me, um, we, well Travis actually asked for a safe word, and, uh, which w- I thought was brilliant, right? And so I, he, and, and the safe word was stop. Okay, easy word, right?

[39:30] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[39:30] Speaker 1: Easy, right? So whichever one of us shouts stop, they release. Well, um, so when I went and they applied the glove, I'll be damned if I could remember what the safe word was.

[39:40] Speaker 2: No, you, you're-

[39:41] Speaker 1: It's, it's stop.

[39:42] Speaker 2: ... your mind-

[39:43] Speaker 1: Poof.

[39:44] Speaker 2: ... literally -

[39:44] Speaker 1: Gone out of my mind.

[39:45] Speaker 2: ... gets dissociated. Yeah.

[39:46] Speaker 1: And I, I, uh-

[39:48] Speaker 2: So, so I was smart based on this, Chip. I knew Chip couldn't remember the word stop.

[39:52] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[39:52] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[39:52] Speaker 2: So I said, okay, I've got a safe word and if I raise my arm up, that's the back-up safe word. And then when I got hit, I couldn't remember either one of them either.

[40:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, 'cause I didn't hear you say the safe word either but I d- I do remember your hand going up. Um, and then I ended up on the floor. I didn't remember how I got on the floor and I, and I will tell you that, um, when I'm getting gloved, um, you know, it was, it was... They grabbed me on the wrist. I only felt it from the wrist down. But, uh, but it, it's the weirdest thing. Things, it, everything like slows down. So I had, I had this thing from my childhood. When I was young and stupid I used to take metal keys and put them in electrical outlets. And so what happens when you get, when you get shocked you just like, oh, it's... And you pull your hand away but if you leave your hand like in an electrical outlet long enough, you feel the pulsating of that electricity 'cause it pulses. And that's what the glove did. He, it, it was, it was held long enough for me to he- to feel the pulsing which I know Travis did too.

[40:47] Speaker 1: And that's what, in my head it popped, that's what popped into my head and I didn't want any part of it. You know, and, uh, and put that in... I couldn't remember the safe word but I ended up on the ground and I rolled... When I watched the video, I put my hand down, I broke my fall, I rolled, I wasn't injured. I was worried about my, my left knee 'cause I had surgery recently a- and, and, and I was fine. You know, so, uh, yeah, it was-

[41:07] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[41:07] Speaker 1: ... so impressive. Yeah.

[41:09] Speaker 3: And I think (clears throat) , and I think that's one of the, the, uh, one of the many, uh, benefits to using this is it doesn't use a lot of power just by, you know, the way it, the way it's designed. It doesn't have to go here, here and com-, you know, create a circuit through your body, through fascia, through muscle, through fat. It doesn't have to do that which takes a lot of electricity, right? If you, you know, depending on where you're shocked with like this device. Crazy.

[41:31] Speaker 2: It's also, so it's not considered a firearm and the newest technology from the company we all know of, it's considered an actual firearm. So wait til the crazies use that against us.

[41:41] Speaker 3: Oh. Yeah, uh, well, speaking of which, um, it, you, you, good luck trying to take the gloves off. So the, the likelihood of that getting into the, you know, the subject's hands and them using it against you is very, very slim. I mean there, so-

[41:56] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[41:57] Speaker 3: There's a lot of, there's a lot of pros. It's just like, like Travis said, this is the first thing I said when I saw this. It's like, "Oh my God, this is, this is, this is life changing for officers."

[42:05] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Every, every cop needs to have a pair of these. They're only a little over $1700 so they are affordable, uh, but especially when you think of what they're saving you in liability-A a- and it protects bad guys' lives, too. It's not just the good guys. Um, if the bad guy doesn't have to get shot by a cop because he's being noncompliant, a- and the o- you know, and the optics are good. A lot better than beating a guy with a, with a expandable baton, a metal pole.

[42:29] Speaker 2: Well-

[42:29] Speaker 1: You know? Um, you know, the optics-

[42:31] Speaker 2: ... the thing about this, Chip, 91% of all officer-involved shootings began with, with noncompliance.

[42:37] Speaker 3: Oh, I agree. I've had clients-

[42:38] Speaker 2: So imagine if you, if you remove noncompliance from the situation with the glove, then you're not getting involved in the shooting.

[42:44] Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I... Game ch- game changer. Game changer.

[42:47] Speaker 2: And-

[42:47] Speaker 3: And, and with very little training. It doesn't take a lot of training-

[42:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[42:50] Speaker 3: Like, 'cause it... 'Cause that's a-

[42:51] Speaker 1: It's knowledge.

[42:51] Speaker 3: Yeah, that, that's another thing is a lot of, a lot of tools you have, it requires a lot of training in order to implement them correctly. This one's very little training, 'cause it's very intuitive. The biggest thing you have to learn is how not to touch yourself when you're dealing with things. But, uh, I think what I see-

[43:05] Speaker 2: Which is very hard for people to learn.

[43:07] Speaker 3: Well, it, it corrects itself pretty quick after a little bit, you know, so.

[43:12] Speaker 1: With you. Well, guys, another great show. Thanks so much to Dr. Travis Yates, uh, from Tulsa Police Department. He also has travisyates.org and courageouspoliceleader.com. And also Scott Steier. Thanks for being on the show. I do want to talk about The Wounded Blue real quick. Lieutenant Randy Sutton's 501 (c) (3) that's helping cops out in a world of hurt that are suffering from things like PTSD and other issues. I support them monthly. If you guys are looking for an organization to support that's not going to embarrass you, please consider The Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org. Travis is even on the board of directors there. Um, Travis, anything else you have going on that you wanna, that you wanna take ten seconds for real quick?

[43:47] Speaker 2: Nope, just get the website up. You can find out about the training and the articles and all that right there.

[43:52] Speaker 1: All right, guys, don't forget. And also, hey, please support our sponsors, guys. We have golus.com, complianttechnologies.com. We have aero-precisionusa.com, gunlearn.com, mymedicare.live, Safeguard Recruiting, our streaming sponsor, twobells.com, and fishorlandobass.com. And, uh, guys, thanks so much for watching the show. We appreciate it. Hope everybody has a wonderful and a safe week.

[44:17] Speaker 1: (rock music plays)