Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 - Program Announcer: Opens and closes the Bible News Prophecy program and identifies the Continuing Church of God sponsorship.
Speaker 2 - Steve Dupuie: Host/interviewer for the Bible News Prophecy Program.
Speaker 3 - Dr. Bob Thiel: Primary Bible-prophecy commentator and teacher.

Speaker 1 - Program Announcer:
This is the Bible News Prophecy Program, bringing you news and analysis of world events in the light of Bible prophecy. The following program is brought to you by the Continuing Church of God.

Speaker 2 - Steve Dupuie:
Good evening, friends. This is Steve Dupuie for the Bible News Prophecy Program with Dr. Bob Thiel, bringing you news and analysis of world events in the light of Bible prophecy.

Dr. Thiel, in our pre-show interview, we discussed Jewish temples. Are there Jews who wish to build a temple now?

Speaker 3 - Dr. Bob Thiel:
Oh yes. There are actually several Jewish groups that want to do it. One of them is called the Temple Institute. It sent out a newsletter yesterday. The title had to do with "the place your God will choose." Then they quoted Deuteronomy 12:5-7.

Let me read what they provided on this:

"Look only to the place Hashem your God will choose from among all your tribes as God's habitation, to establish the divine name there. You are to go there, and there you are to bring your burnt offerings and your other sacrifices, your tithes, your contributions, your votive and freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and flocks. Together with your households, you shall feast there before Hashem your God, happy in all the undertakings with which Hashem your God has blessed you."

Then it says, "Moses introduces the future holy temple, the central place of worship and community which will replace the tabernacle."

Well, sacrifices were mentioned in that part of Deuteronomy, and those were done for centuries without a temple.

Although those passages do not actually mention a temple, over 400 years later King David of Judah wanted to build a great temple as God's house in Jerusalem. God said no, but He declared that one of David's sons would do so, in 2 Samuel 7. David's son Solomon actually built what is called the first Jewish temple.

That temple was destroyed in 586 BC by Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. A new temple was begun after King Cyrus's decree and provided some funding around 538 BC, according to Ezra chapter 1. That temple was finished around 516 BC.

About 500 years later, the one called Herod the Great expanded it. It was very large and impressive. But Jesus, in Matthew 24, prophesied its destruction. So let's go there, starting with verse 1:

"Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, 'Do you see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another that shall not be thrown down.'"

That temple was destroyed by General Titus in AD 70, consistent with what Jesus said. According to the Jewish historian Josephus, who saw the destruction, it was complete.

There were some discussions of rebuilding a temple in the early second century, but that did not happen. So there has not been what you would call a Jewish temple in Jerusalem for nearly 2,000 years since. But a lot of religious Jews want one.

Going back to the Temple Institute newsletter, it also had the following:

"Help build the holy temple in our time. Donate generously to help the sacred work of the Temple Institute. Every contribution helps to rebuild the holy temple in our time."

Speaker 2 - Steve Dupuie:
Can the Jews build a holy temple in this age?

Speaker 3 - Dr. Bob Thiel:
No.

Speaker 2 - Steve Dupuie:
But I think I recall reading that Christians are the temple of God. Could they represent God's temple in the end times?

Speaker 3 - Dr. Bob Thiel:
Yes. First, let's look at an Old Testament prophecy. This is in Daniel 12:7:

"Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river. He held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished."

Those people being referred to are not unconverted Jews. We know this is an end-time prophecy because of "time, times, and half a time." It is a three-and-a-half-year time period that encompasses the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord.

How are Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, or even non-Christian Jews, connected with the temple of God? To determine that, we need to realize that there are two words translated from the Greek as "temple" in English in the New Testament.

We are going to look at some that use the term naos for the temple of God, used after Jesus was resurrected. For example, the Apostle Paul, in 1 Corinthians 6:19, said:

"What? Do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?"

In 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, he wrote:

"Do you not know that you are the temple of God, the naos of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, the naos of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God, the naos of God, is holy, which temple you are."

And in 2 Corinthians 6:16, Paul wrote:

"And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.'"

Those inspired writings of the Apostle Paul demonstrate the view that the naos temple of God now has to do with Christians, and not Jewish people, except those Jews who are Christians and have the Holy Spirit.

Despite these passages, some today who claim to be Christians believe God would consider a Jewish temple, built in defiance of the sacrifice of Jesus, to somehow be holy. It is God's people in the church who are the holy temple in the church era, not some Jewish building.

Now, I mentioned there is another Greek word used for temple. This is the word hieron. It almost always refers to a physical temple, sometimes a Jewish one, but even a pagan one in Acts 19:27. But this is not the same way.

Because the word hieron is used more frequently in the New Testament than naos, sometimes people seem to get confused. But Jesus, if we go to John chapter 2, was the first in the New Testament to use the word naos to refer to something other than a Jewish temple.

John 2:19 says:

"Jesus answered and said to them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.'"

Then the Jews said:

"It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"

Verse 21 says:

"But He was speaking of the temple of His body."

So while the Jews were thinking that the naos was referring to a physical Jewish temple, Scripture is clear that Jesus was referring to something else.

Speaker 2 - Steve Dupuie:
Those verses make it pretty clear. Are there more Scriptures that point to Christians being the temple of God?

Speaker 3 - Dr. Bob Thiel:
Yes. If you go to Ephesians chapter 2, starting in verse 19, Paul writes:

"Now therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone."

He is kind of using an analogy for a building.

"In whom all the building, fitly framed together, grows unto a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God through the Spirit."

While I think Scripture normally should be interpreted literally, the Apostle Paul, just like Jesus, was metaphorically using naos to mean something else. In Paul's case, Christians; in Jesus' case, Himself.

This is not a new idea. The Church of God last century, for example, published, "And the Church of God at the present day shall be a building fitly framed together, growing into a holy temple in the Lord."

Look, the Hebrew Scriptures state that the Jews were God's holy people in Deuteronomy 7, yet the New Testament shows that God's holy people now are Christians. The Apostle Peter wrote about this. I am going to go to 1 Peter chapter 1.

Starting in verse 13, he talks about Jesus Christ. Verse 15 says:

"He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, 'Be holy, for I am holy.'"

And 1 Peter 2:9 says:

"But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people."

The New Testament also makes it clear that the sacrifices that the Jews wish to make are not needed, as in Hebrews 9:12-13. Hence, it is improper for Christians to believe that Jews can make a holy temple in this age.

I want to read something that Paul wrote, Hebrews 9:11:

"But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands."

That is not talking about a physical building. That is not of this creation.

Anyway, there is no possible way that Jews can build a holy temple in this age. Non-believing Jews are not holy in the New Testament biblical sense.

Speaker 2 - Steve Dupuie:
So doesn't the Bible tell of animal sacrifices in Daniel prior to the Great Tribulation? Wouldn't that require a temple?

Speaker 3 - Dr. Bob Thiel:
Well, yes, the book of Daniel contains prophecies - Daniel chapters 9, 11, and 12 - about animal sacrifices before the Great Tribulation. But no, that does not require a temple.

While the Jews would prefer to have a temple, all they actually need is an altar, a high priest, implements, and willingness to sacrifice. They have all that.

Plus, understand that until Solomon built the first temple, in 1 Kings 6:14, in Jerusalem, the Bible shows that Jews sacrificed on altars. David, Solomon's father, did this in 2 Samuel 24, as did Aaron and his descendants in Exodus 20:24 and Leviticus chapter 1.

Prior to all that, Abel, in Genesis 4:4; Noah, in Genesis 8:20; Abraham, in Genesis 22:9-13; and others sacrificed animals to God. So for over 3,000 years, animal sacrifices were offered without a Jewish temple.

Even after the first Jewish temple was destroyed and left in ruins, the Bible itself specifically shows that sacrifices were made in the time of Ezra before the second temple was ready. If you have a Bible, you can follow along to Ezra 3:6:

"From the first day of the seventh month, they began to offer burnt offerings unto the Lord. But the foundation of the temple of the Lord was not yet laid."

Now, someone could argue that it is a moot point because unless Jews are willing to sacrifice, well, the temple will not happen. That would be true, except Jews are willing to do it.

I spoke to leaders both in the Temple Institute and received emails from the reconstituted Sanhedrin, and they both said, no, we do not need a temple to sacrifice. Basically, all we need is government permission, and once we get that, we will do it.

While the Jews may or may not build some type of structure to sacrifice, they are not capable of building a holy temple of God in this age.

Speaker 2 - Steve Dupuie:
What about the abomination of desolation? Didn't Jesus say that takes place in the holy temple?

Speaker 3 - Dr. Bob Thiel:
No, but that is something a lot of people do not understand. Let's go to Matthew 24, starting in verse 15. Jesus warned:

"Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place - whoever reads, let him understand - then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Notice He said, "whoever reads, let him understand." Well, many people misunderstand this. Jesus did not say the holy place was a Jewish temple.

This place could be the first Christian building in Jerusalem or some other location. Jesus did not say that the Jewish temple in the end times was a holy place.

In the New Testament, in Acts 7:33 and Acts 21:28, you specifically see the Greek terms topos for "place" and hagios for "holy," which are the same terms Jesus used. That was referring not to a building or a structure, but just a location.

Yet many Protestants, as well as many in the Churches of God, including my previous one, do not fully grasp that. They are looking for something that cannot be.

While the Jews can build religious buildings, the Jews cannot build a holy place now. In this age, Christians are God's holy people, and Christians should live like that. Do not look for the Jews to build a temple that God will consider to be holy in this age.

Speaker 2 - Steve Dupuie:
Thank you, Dr. Thiel. For more interviews with Dr. Thiel, in addition to written as well as audio articles, visit our website at Bible News Prophecy.

Speaker 1 - Program Announcer:
This Bible News Prophecy program was sponsored by the Continuing Church of God. For more information, including access to our free literature, visit Bible News Prophecy.