COVID Angels, Courage, and Conviction: Finding Faith Through Trauma and Speaking Up in Uncertain Times

Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 – Prerecorded Announcer / Program Intro and Outro Voice
The opening and closing station material is separate from the live discussion and introduces the program, its host, its recurring co-hosts, and the BBS Radio Network.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe
The host introduces the program, presents the team, introduces Terry Warner, guides the discussion, and closes the episode. The transcript gives his surname in conflicting automated forms, including “Scoldy” and “Scopield,” so the corrected transcript uses “Pastor Joe” rather than inventing a surname.

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall
The host explicitly introduces Dr. Paul Hall as a retired pastor, writer, counselor, and longtime friend. Paul joins the discussion after experiencing an internet interruption.

Speaker 4 – Co-host, Pastor Ron Greer
The host explicitly introduces Ron Greer as a pastor and counselor associated with Man in the Mirror in Texas. Ron contributes substantially to the discussion about COVID, church leadership, Christian courage, and Islam.

Speaker 5 – Co-host, Melba Hernandez
The host identifies Melba Hernandez as his wife and a member of the program team. She briefly describes her own experience with COVID and comments on faith over fear.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner
The host introduces Terry Warner as a coach, author, speaker, and member of the program family. Terry identifies herself as the author of Trainwreck to Triumph and gives the central testimony about her hospitalization with COVID, her “COVID angels,” trauma, faith, leadership, and courage.

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Speaker 1 – Prerecorded Announcer / Program Intro Voice:

Everyone faces questions and decisions that require insight and answers as we move forward personally, professionally, and corporately in all areas of this thing we call life in America today.

Hello, this is Joe. I invite you to tune in every Monday evening from 6 to 7 p.m. as we talk together and hear from key leaders of all ages and backgrounds about your questions.

Interesting, informative, intuitive, but always encouraging.

Tune us in on the BBS Radio Network.

Join Pastor Joe and co-hosts Ron Greer, Dr. Paul Hall, Stephanie Thayer, and Dr. Craig Thayer in Raising Expectations.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Well, hey, it’s Monday night, and we’re sure glad you tuned in with us to your show, Raising Expectations.

It’s always good to be with you.

We know that you follow the program each week, and you are a blessing to everybody on our team.

You know what we stand for?

We stand for the love of God as shown through His Son, Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for our sins and lives within our hearts with the plan He has for us.

We experience His presence every day in so many different ways, and those are the expectations that are special, unique, and wonderful in all of our lives as God works in our very midst.

So we’re glad you’re with us tonight.

We always like to say we want to go from good to better to best together as we talk and bring in some of the most wonderful people you’re ever going to meet right here on our program.

Tonight, we’ve got part of our Raising Expectations family, and that is Terry Warner.

But before we bring her on, and I know you’ve been checking out all week the different things that we’ve told you about her, we want to introduce our staff again very quickly.

Now, two of our staff won’t be with us. They’re caught in a thunderstorm, they’re in their car trying to get down the highway, and it’s not a good situation right now.

So we may not see them. They may pop in later, but right now they’re not really with us.

We’re going to go to the West Coast first.

Just before we go to the West Coast, why don’t we give you the opportunity to look at our website so you can see the folks we’re going to introduce?

As you know, if you go to bbsradio.com/raisingexpectations, you’ll hear all about our show.

You’ll read about the people and the folks involved.

As Doug scrolls down for us, you can see the different things there and opportunities for you to help us grow.

You’ll see our team listed below.

You’ll find all the shows that we have.

We’ve had the blessing of being with BBS Radio for more than six years now, six years and a couple of months.

What a blessing they are.

We love and appreciate the guys at BBS Radio, and it’s such a thrill to know that they’re right there with us.

You’ll see Dr. Paul Hall and the rest of the team as you scroll down.

You can reach out to them personally or send them a text.

Let them know you’re praying for them.

It will be exciting to get to know you better as a group and individually and watch what God is doing and building in our lives—the things He has for us and the way He is raising our expectations more and more each and every day.

If we go to the West Coast right now, in Lompoc, California, as our regular listeners know, we have Dr. Paul Hall.

You’ll find our books on the website too.

There’s my book, which is listed there under a title that I hope you’ll check out.

And there is the book by our surgeon who is part of our team, Saved: Finding God in the Ordinary.

That’s Craig and Stephanie.

Craig tells the story of God working in his life.

You’re going to love getting a copy of that book.

Do check out the website. There are lots of things there for you to see.

In the meantime, we’re going to go back to the West Coast, back to Dr. Paul Hall, who’s in Lompoc, California.

Lompoc is near Santa Barbara and right there on the coast.

Paul is a great guy. You’re going to want to meet him.

He’s a retired pastor, a writer, and a counselor.

Paul is just a jack-of-all-trades.

He’s been our friend for a long time.

We went to school together a long time ago, all of us.

Paul is a real blessing in all of our lives.

You all know how often you compliment him and what he does when you talk to me and send your texts about these guys.

They bless your lives, and they’re really a blessing to mine.

How are you doing, Paul?

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall:

Good. Good to see you.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

All right. Good to see you too.

We’ll move right along.

We’re going to go all the way to the south side of the East Coast.

Right there in Dalton, Georgia, we have two special people, but they won’t be with us tonight.

You’ll catch them again next week, and they may pop in later.

They’re caught in that terrible storm back there.

That’s Dr. Craig Thayer and his wife Stephanie.

They also just deposited their two sons at the University of Georgia.

So, in case you’re a Bulldog fan, they are Bulldogs—red, black, and silver.

You’ll want to be rooting for them this year as we get ready for football.

If you come a little bit west—if you go east, you’re going to get wet—but if you go west, you’ll end up coming all the way to the Dallas, Texas, area.

There we have Pastor Ron Greer.

He’s in McKinney, Texas.

Ron is a counselor with Man in the Mirror.

They’re based out of Florida, but Ron covers the state of Texas, which is a big job.

He counsels, teaches, preaches, and works with guys who have difficulties in their lives.

He helps them see that some of those problems they have are really opportunities that God has placed in their lives to bring them through.

He does a great job.

Ron, are you there?

Speaker 4 – Co-host, Pastor Ron Greer:

Hey, there he is.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

All right. Right there in McKinney, Texas.

It’s good to see you.

Back when he first began years ago, we used to say, “I think he’s behind that big bookcase. There’s a peekaboo door. He can come in and out of there.”

Right?

Speaker 4 – Co-host, Pastor Ron Greer:

That’s it.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

There he is.

Now Paul has outdone me.

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall:

Yeah.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Not hardly. Never.

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall:

I’ve got to redo my office here.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

That’s right. Just step into it. Push the button.

Anyway, we kind of make up the team.

But before we go away, I’ve got to be honest.

My favorite member of this whole team is sitting right here on my right.

That’s my precious wife, Melba Hernandez.

I went to Texas and got her.

She went to school with Paul and me.

And the school is still there. She managed to save it.

Did I say that right, Paul?

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall:

I think it’s pretty much the same.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

It was just us being there.

Anyway, you said to go.

Speaker 5 – Co-host, Melba Hernandez:

I’m ready.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

All right. You’re ready.

Let’s talk a little bit about our guest tonight.

Many of you have been checking this week.

The good thing about Terry is she’s part of the family.

I’ve always noticed that the great men and women I’ve learned to appreciate, who have been a special part of my life, are people who are accessible, caring, and just part of the family with you.

As we look at this tonight, we want you to know that she has very special insights once again to share with us.

Hopefully, you’ve been reading what she’s been sharing.

God gives her special glimpses into what is working in her life, and she shares that with all of us.

She’s a renowned coach, author, and speaker who will inspire us.

I know she’s going to bless you tonight as we discuss this.

We also want to give a good word to her husband, Dave, who’s a very special guy.

They’re also in the great state of Texas.

I like the fact that she uses the challenges we all face in life and offers a message of hope because she allows God to give her insight into how those things can become something positive.

So we want to give a very special welcome.

Let’s bring on Terry now.

Round of applause.

Welcome, Terry.

It’s good to have you on the program tonight.

We love what you share with us.

You shared some great things this week.

We always check in on our emails and texts, and the things you shared yesterday were excellent.

So welcome.

The floor is yours.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

Thank you so much.

It’s a pleasure to be here, of course, as always.

I am the author of Trainwreck to Triumph.

I’m asking anyone who would like to be on my newsletter or get a free e-book, How to Help Your Friends Heal Through a Train Wreck Without Jumping In With Them, to go to TerryWarner.com or TrainwrecktoTriumph.com.

It’s a 23-page, bullet-point e-book with insights about what to do and how to serve and help those who have gone through trauma.

Many times, trauma is very interesting.

Trauma creates an environment within us that we have to almost accommodate by choosing different things.

We make different choices, and those accommodations become patterns.

We’re going to talk about that.

But one thing I want to speak about is that, as we know from the news, COVID-19 has been coming up again in conversation.

I just want to say I’m excited that now, on social media, we can actually say the word COVID.

There was a time when I felt we couldn’t even write the word COVID without changing it in some way or risking being discounted, banned, or censored.

So I’m going to be on for two weeks.

Sorry, guys, but I’ll be on for two weeks.

Today, I want to talk about what I call “COVID angels.”

I want to inspire and give comfort to those who are still traumatized by the fact that their loved ones were isolated in hospitals during COVID.

I was one of those people in isolation.

There was trauma for the family, but there was also trauma for the person who was isolated.

I want to give courage and encouragement through what happened to me and how I believe my experience can impact others.

Your loved ones may have been alone, or you may think they were alone.

You were not there.

But I want you to hear my story and hear how God showed up through other people.

I refer to these people as my COVID angels because I don’t think I would have gotten through without them.

God showed up even though I was traumatized.

Now that COVID is coming up again in the news, some of you may be thinking about areas of betrayal, deception, misunderstanding, and situations where loved ones were not treated well.

In some situations, people were put into the hospital in isolation.

They were not able to see family.

Many died without seeing family and without the comfort of family.

My situation showed me how difficult it was to know that a loved one was dying and that you were not able to fulfill the promise you may have made to them: “I’ll be there with you. I’ll hold your hand. I will be there.”

So I want to tell you a little bit about my story, and then we can open it up.

I want to hear what you all have to say.

I’m not trying to make a partisan statement here.

I’m speaking about what I experienced and what I believe.

Even though that situation took place, God was in the middle.

Those middle times are sometimes where we don’t really know where God is.

But I’ve talked to many people who experienced similar things.

I’m so grateful to the Lord God Almighty, who saved my life and, in my belief, did miracles through people and in ways I could never have created on my own.

God showed up mightily in my room.

He showed up for me.

It became a turning point in my life because when you believe you have seen the hand of God that strongly, it changes you.

My story is this.

In 2019, I was diagnosed with COVID.

I would not go to the hospital, even though I was definitely encouraged to do that, because I was so frightened.

Finally, I had no option but to go to the hospital because I had become so sick.

In the early part of COVID, I think it was a different experience for some people.

Maybe not for everyone, but some people had a very dire experience.

Finally, my husband basically said, “You’re dying. We have to take you to the hospital.”

He called ahead.

They said that if we brought me in and told them we needed a wheelchair, they would bring me in automatically.

I couldn’t hold my head up.

I won’t go into detail, but I was in pretty rough shape.

By the time they tested me and found out I had COVID pneumonia, I thought I was going into a room just to be tested.

I never saw my husband again in person for two weeks.

By the time they had tested me, I was already in a room, and they had moved me into a room in the back of the hospital.

One of the major traumas in my life, and one of the biggest fears of my life, involves being alone in a medical situation.

That’s a long story.

But being alone in that situation was a huge fear for me.

I kept saying, “No, I don’t want to be alone. I don’t want to go alone.”

Before this, we had gone for a COVID test in what was basically the back end of a parking lot.

The medical staff came outside and would not let us into the building.

They came out in full protective suits that looked like something from the movie Outbreak—head to toe.

There wasn’t an inch exposed.

They said, “You cannot come near us.”

We were supposed to be tested, but they wouldn’t let us into the building and they wouldn’t even test us at that time.

It made me feel like, “Oh, my God. What is going on here?”

Eventually, they got me into the hospital.

And just as God would do this, they put me in a back room.

Women may understand this more than men.

I had just redecorated my house.

I’m an interior designer, and color is very important to me.

The walls of that hospital room were exactly the same teal color as my bedroom at home.

It was a big room and very quiet.

I couldn’t hear anything outside the solid wood door.

I was in isolation.

My husband could come to the hospital only to drop things off so the staff could deliver them to me.

They brought my glasses.

I had a cell phone.

They let him bring me a charger.

That was basically it.

I asked for a hair clip to keep my hair out of my eyes, and they would not give me one.

I was in the room, and people came in and out.

I had seven doctors.

They basically told me, “You’re dying. We don’t think you’re going to live.”

And I started ministering to them.

I started saying, “God, I am here in this room, but God is with me.”

So I was ministering to the doctors and the nurses.

Then I got so sick that I was on about 12 liters of oxygen and could barely breathe.

God was there.

I want you to know that I felt peace from the time I got into that room.

I felt cared for, even though I fired one of my doctors.

He told me I was wasting his time and that I was asking too many questions.

I got enough courage—and people who know me on this show probably think, “Well, that didn’t take five minutes.”

I asked him questions, and he said, “You ask too many questions.”

I said, “Well, here’s something I’m going to say and not ask you: you’re fired. You need to leave my room and don’t come back.”

I said a few other things about the lawsuit that would be impending if he came back.

At least I had that much presence of mind—gasping for air and threatening lawsuits.

But in that process, I definitely was in a terrible situation.

And I want to tell you, God was in the middle.

You who are listening and watching may know of a similar situation with your loved one.

You may not know all that took place in that hospital room.

But I’m here to tell you what I believe: your loved ones were not alone.

Your loved ones were touched by the hand of God.

Even if they did not make it through this life, I believe they made it to the other side.

I had many doctors and nurses come in.

Bless their hearts.

One nurse kept them from putting me on a ventilator.

She said, “I will get her oxygen needs down.”

She worked with me and, in my view, helped keep me off a ventilator.

She and I would argue every day.

She’d come in and joke around: “What do you want now?”

I’d say, “Water. I want some water.”

She’d say, “That’s the problem with you. You’re always asking for something.”

Then she’d walk out of the room laughing.

She got me laughing.

We had arguments right and left, but she cared for me.

At that particular time in COVID, at that hospital, staff assignments were very strict.

Some people would be assigned one patient or one day, and then they would be in the hallways crying between shifts.

This was at the very beginning of COVID.

We didn’t know what was happening.

But for me, I had the same person for several days on one shift and the same person for several days on the other shift.

I’m giving this testimony so you can know that more may have taken place on behalf of your loved ones than you know.

You may never know all that was done for them.

I want to encourage you.

I had a man from Nairobi, Kenya, who came into town.

He had a very thick accent.

He was my night nurse, and he was also a pastor here in the Dallas area.

He told me, “God woke me up the night before and said, ‘The woman you’re going to be caring for has a calling on her life. Tell her she’s going to live and not die.’”

He said, “I’m going to be here four days. I’m never with anyone four days, but I’m here for four days to minister to you.”

And he ministered to me for four nights.

Then another person came in.

The janitor came in and said, “While I’m here, can I pray for you? God told me the woman in this room was called of God and would live and not die.”

The woman doing the EKG said something similar.

Other nurses did too.

Other doctors did too.

I had one medic ask if he could hug me even though he wasn’t supposed to.

They were under strict rules about touching me.

People often cared for me from a distance, wearing masks and full protective equipment, even with their feet covered.

Sometimes I had to yell so they could hear me.

If I didn’t have my mask up, they couldn’t talk to me.

All of that was part of the beginning.

They used a tremendous amount of disinfectant.

They took blood from every place you could imagine because they couldn’t figure out what was going on.

All of this was happening, but I kept hearing voices from the people around me saying, “You’re going to live and not die. God has a call on your life. You’re alone, but you’re not without Him.”

I posted something a few days ago about using our voice.

I really believe that people who are called to us have something in their voice that our soul hears, that our spirit hears, and that we have that voice for others.

So I want to encourage caregivers to continue to give and care.

I want you to know that your loved ones may have had an experience with God that you will never know about until we get to heaven.

One night, they couldn’t keep my blood pressure up.

My blood pressure was a problem.

I had received remdesivir over a period of days.

Whatever happened in the hospital also affected my kidneys, and my kidneys were moving toward failure.

My blood pressure was very low.

One night, a nurse came in and said, “I’m not supposed to tell you, but we don’t think you’re going to live through the night.”

I said, “Why?”

She said, “Your blood pressure. We cannot get your blood pressure up.”

I called my dad, who is a pastor.

I called my husband, of course.

My husband was answering my calls all the time.

We were in constant conversation.

He had COVID too, at home.

I said, “They’re saying I’m not going to make it.”

And I said, “We have to pray. Something is wrong. We have to pray.”

Nothing was changing.

I lay there with gospel music playing on my phone and listened to it all night long.

There was a song about God restoring my soul.

“When life’s pressure weighs on me, He restores my soul.”

I lived with that in my ear.

That was the voice I heard.

The doctors would come in and say, “Pray to the God you pray to and ask Him to give us answers, because we don’t know what to do.”

They would not give me ivermectin.

They did give me remdesivir, which I believe had negative effects on me.

That’s part of my story.

One night, when I thought I was dying, I cried out to God out loud.

I said, “God, we need an answer.”

And I’m telling you, as sure as I’m sitting here, as sure as I am sitting on this chair, I heard what I experienced as the tangible voice of God say, “We don’t need an answer. I am the answer.”

I’m a preacher’s kid.

I’m a marketplace minister.

I had already written my book, although it hadn’t been published yet.

Good thing I had written it before, because I didn’t remember a lot of it for a year.

I was in a wheelchair when I ended up leaving the hospital.

But God said He was the answer.

And I said, “Yes, You are. And I need that answer in my blood pressure now.”

I say all of that because I think we come to different places in life.

I’ve had miracle after miracle in my life.

But in that moment, at that time, for who I was in that moment, I needed that miracle.

The next day, things started changing.

They were able to find a way to get me out of the hospital, even though they had not expected me to leave.

At one point, they gave me codeine, an opioid, for my cough.

I had a reaction.

I felt as though I experienced what death feels like—like the life just goes out of your body.

I had that kind of reaction four times.

I want to include this in my testimony.

One of the doctors, my pulmonary specialist, was from Brazil.

He happened to be walking down the hallway when staff were running through the hallway trying to help me.

He said, “What is happening with that woman?”

They told him.

He said, “Don’t give her that again.”

The next day, he walked in and said, “I had the same thing happen when I was playing soccer in Brazil. What happened to me is what happened to you. That was a reaction. You’ll never be on it again. Your chart says so.”

He just happened to be walking down the hall.

There were other strange moments.

Through that solid wood door, which normally blocked the sounds from the hallway, I sometimes heard medication alarms several doors down.

I would call the nurse and say, “The medication down the hall is making a sound.”

I felt God gave me that ability while I was there.

God showed up so many times through so many people.

I had a medic ask me if I would give him relationship coaching for him and his girlfriend.

I said, “Well, okay. If I can talk through the gasping, I’ll be glad to do that.”

I’m giving you this testimony.

There are people who have suffered far more than I have.

But I want the people who went through this and are living to know that, in my belief, God was with you.

And for those who don’t know how their loved one felt when they died because they were alone, I want to speak to that grief.

I know many people whose mothers or fathers died alone, even though promises had been made: “I’ll be there with you.”

That breaks my heart.

But I want you to know what I believe: God was with them in the middle of it.

He could do something for them that you, as a loved one, could not have done.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

That’s right.

That’s right.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

I just wanted to share that information and maybe encourage some people.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Yes. Amen.

He’s there.

Ron, when you think about all the times where we don’t really know what’s happening, and you look back through your memories and think about people you’ve helped, is there a time that comes to mind like that?

Speaker 4 – Co-host, Pastor Ron Greer:

COVID is a difficult subject for me because it was the height of my absolute rage for about three years.

With my background and training, from the very beginning a lot of things made no sense to me.

I was the one green-headed guy running around saying, “This is crazy. They’re lying. It doesn’t make sense.”

And, of course, family, friends, everybody I knew ostracized me and wanted nothing to do with that.

The same thing happened with hospital rules.

I actually came close to dealing with jail one night because my mother-in-law went to the hospital.

They had to take her to a tent out in the parking lot and then leave her there.

She has dementia. She’s in a wheelchair.

They wouldn’t let me stay with her.

They wouldn’t let me take her outside the hospital.

When I tried to go into the emergency room to check where they had moved her for the third time, because you couldn’t communicate with them to find out what was going on, they brought down two security guards and two big police officers who were going to escort me out.

I was almost ready to go to jail that night, but I was wiser than that.

Again, it’s because of all the people I know who have been through that kind of trauma.

We have friends who stood at a window and watched their dad in a nursing home basically die because they couldn’t go in.

They couldn’t let him out.

He couldn’t read the iPad from outside.

It’s one story after another.

But I think, in each one of those cases, their experience is like yours, Terry.

They knew the Lord.

They turned to the Lord and were reassured that He was actually still with them, especially the couple whose father was in the nursing home.

There are a couple of others like that as well.

The only solace they had was the assurance that the Lord was with them and with their loved one.

I think some very dark things took place.

But again, as God does, He showed up mightily in the midst of it.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

Amen.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

That’s right.

How about you, Paul?

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall:

You know what? I’m sorry I missed you.

My internet failed.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Come on, Paul.

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall:

I did that in sympathy for Steph and Craig.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

This is an excellent experience.

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall:

I do identify with them.

I’m sorry I missed part of the conversation.

I’ve been ignored by men before.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Join the club.

The list is long but distinguished.

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall:

There you go.

I heard you talking about COVID and some of the responses and what happened during shutdowns.

There are a lot of interesting things being discussed now about those kinds of things.

Did you talk about some of the long-COVID effects that have affected people?

My wife got COVID even after she had two inoculations, and she was out for 32 days—just out.

She still has some lingering effects from that.

The families that were impacted were just hurt.

So sad.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

No, no. We’re just teasing you. It’s okay.

Terry was sharing her testimony, Paul, and how God was right with her through a really difficult time with COVID.

She shared what happened to her and talked about the Lord’s presence and comfort.

Sometimes He shows up in such unique and incredible ways through all of us in different situations.

Sometimes the impact of those ways becomes stronger as the years go by.

You look back and say, “Unbelievable. Look at what He did.”

Terry was sharing a personal testimony about the presence of the Lord, the Lord’s comfort, and the way the Lord speaks to us in so many different ways.

There’s just no way to put into words sometimes the peace that passes understanding.

When we plug into Him, He’s just there.

It’s almost like stepping out of a freezing room and He warms your heart.

You know He’s there.

That peace is hard to express.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

So true.

I listened to a minister the other day say something that I think we all know about, but the way he phrased it was interesting.

He said, “We have the peace that passes understanding, and what that means is the peace is there and we can release our need to understand it.”

Sometimes that is the beginning.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Melba, did you have something to add?

Speaker 5 – Co-host, Melba Hernandez:

No, I just had COVID, but it was very light.

By the time I got it, the isolation recommendation was only about five days instead of 14.

I was working part time, so it hit me lightly.

I was okay the next week.

But it is a scary feeling.

You wonder, “What if it progresses?”

I was living alone, and my sister was only five or six minutes away from me.

But you still have that sense that you have to depend on God to get through things.

I have a T-shirt that says, “Faith over fear.”

It’s knowing that your faith is going to bring you through the conflicts and differences in your life.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

And isn’t it just like the enemy to create such fear?

There was such fear that it shut down the country financially and job-wise.

I remember thinking it was embellished before I got it.

I was looking at statistics and comparing it with the flu and other illnesses.

Then I got sick, and it changed my perspective on some things.

But I remember thinking, “Isn’t this funny? The run on everything is for disinfectant and toilet paper.”

Why were people buying pallets of toilet paper?

I never could figure out why that was such a big concern.

Buy food. Put gas in the car.

But it was interesting.

We were being programmed by what we were hearing, and we did the best we could at the time with the knowledge we had.

I believe a lot of believers have been praying for years, “Lord, expose the evil.”

And then, when we believe something has been exposed, what do we as believers do with it?

That’s the question now.

How do we release the trauma that was caused to so many people?

A huge number of people died.

Now we look back and think we know different information.

Some of us believed we knew some of those things then, and we were ostracized for saying it.

I use Facebook differently than some people.

I’m a little more aggressive.

Ron and I could go somewhere, have coffee, and talk all this information out.

But I believe the question becomes: what do we do with what has happened?

I think that brings us to another layer.

How did we accommodate trauma?

What patterns have we put in place with our loved ones and friends?

How do we forgive what took place to our loved ones, to us, and to our nation, while also becoming smarter, wiser, more tenacious, and better at filtering information?

How do we do that in an effective way?

I think that may be the key for tonight’s session.

I wanted to encourage people that you may not know all the beautiful things that happened with your loved one.

Maybe that can encourage you to forgive.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

That encouragement is real.

I think it ages like a fine wine.

The longer we look back and remember these things, the sweeter some of those memories can become.

But I think it also has to lead to what we learn.

I personally believe there was a political plan involved in what happened.

That is my political interpretation.

I think God is putting pieces of a puzzle together right now that will not only purify our understanding of what’s going on, but at the same time give us insight to forgive and to learn.

Where do we take a stand?

Americans have historically been willing to go the extra mile for others.

It’s all part of our story.

We have to learn from these things.

I’m not going to be around another 50 years.

My grandkids and the coming generations matter to me.

I love this country.

I love the United States of America.

I love what it stands for.

I believe in the Constitution.

I believe in these things.

So I think we do need to learn.

But framing all of that because of what you were sharing, Terry, we don’t even know how much God was doing in the lives of those who were suffering.

We know He was there.

That tells us He’s with us now.

But we need to keep our hearts and minds in order.

Speaker 4 – Co-host, Pastor Ron Greer:

Totally.

From my perspective, and I won’t go through all of it again, I agree with you that the whole thing revealed a lot.

There were legitimate elements to the illness, but I believe it was also used in other ways.

The thing that shook me and bothered me most, and left the most residual resentment and disappointment, was what happened in the church.

You see this thing happening, and your expectation is, “Okay, then God’s people, with the Spirit of God in them, will have discernment, have courage, see it for what it is, and be a voice in the midst of the chaos and darkness saying, ‘Look to the Lord and don’t be afraid.’”

I was flabbergasted when one friend after another, and one prominent pastor after another, shut churches, went into hiding, and encouraged people to go along.

My brain went back to Scripture.

What is it that you’re trusting in?

What has God told you to trust in?

It was like His people were drowsy and sleeping and not paying attention.

I believe God was saying, “Wake up. What are you putting your trust in?”

Instead of trusting God and what He told us, we were reaching toward government and agencies for answers and salvation.

That disappointed me.

Even after governments said churches could open, multiple churches got together and decided not to.

Some had people show up in parking lots in cars, and leaders would go by and touch the car instead of the people.

I think there is a place where we have to understand what courage looks like in the faith.

I don’t think we’re there yet.

I don’t think we’ve fully learned.

How do we lead?

How do we avoid getting complacent?

We have to lead and we have to feed.

Whether we’re doing it through the internet or doing it in a church, we have to lead and feed.

You talk about the loaves and fishes.

That’s where real church starts happening.

Real leadership starts happening when people need food, care, and spiritual support.

There was a pastor who drove food 30 miles across town to us and delivered Olive Garden salads and food.

He set it on our front porch and tried to get in to see us.

We didn’t hear the doorbell because I was sick.

How are we going to lead and feed people spiritually and meet their physical needs?

That’s where I think we have to look back and say, “Okay, I’m going to forgive what took place, but I’m also going to learn.”

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

My biggest challenge with forgiveness—and I wrote the book, but I still have my own challenges—is that I have a real challenge with what I see as stupidity.

I have moments when I struggle to forgive that.

It’s hard to see things and have them not seen, to say things and have them not heard.

I think now we’re translating some of that into where we are in America today.

I’m saying, “Listen, y’all. We were not told the truth about everything.”

And here we are now having other major conversations about religion, culture, women, leadership, and what is happening in the country.

I’m probably stepping on some toes here.

But if I wanted to be popular, I’d run for prom queen.

I’m 72 years old.

Don’t like me today. I’m fine with it.

A lot of people didn’t like what I said during COVID either.

I’m okay with that.

But we need to get the truth out, and we need to understand what the truth is.

If we are more concerned about internal church arguments than we are about people being killed or persecuted, then we have lost our focus.

I live in the Dallas area.

Ron lives not too far from me.

There are local debates here about mosques, Islam, and religious influence.

I have made it in my heart that we have got to have courage.

We have to understand that, from my Christian worldview, we are fighting a spiritual battle between Christ and what I consider the spirit of the Antichrist.

I’m not saying there aren’t many people who would love to know the full truth of what they believe.

I think many people are misled.

But I am saying that, for America, we have to understand what is happening.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

There are major demographic and religious changes happening in America.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

Yes.

And I’m not trying to open a whole new can of worms.

Ron, go ahead.

Speaker 4 – Co-host, Pastor Ron Greer:

I think you’re on the right track in this sense.

I think COVID was a shaking.

I believe God used it to reveal something.

And the revelation wasn’t just so it could be seen.

It was to say, “Look where you are and look where I want you to be.”

At the same time, I think it exposed weakness.

My concern about Islam has been a personal concern of mine for about 20 years.

Now we’re seeing rapid growth and major cultural changes.

Different elements took advantage of what happened.

What I want pastors and Christians to do is say, “Okay, understand what God exposed.”

There’s a passage in Revelation about waking up and strengthening what remains.

So now wake up.

Go back and strengthen what remains—the truth that you know, the things you’ve learned, and the things you’ve come to understand.

Build on those things.

And pray.

I’m praying because there are stories of Muslims in other countries who say they encountered Christ in dreams and converted to Christianity.

That’s what I’m praying for in America.

I’m praying that, as people come here, we see it as a mission field on our front doorstep.

We don’t have to travel.

I’m praying that God moves powerfully in America and that we see all of this come together for the kingdom.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

Yes.

I believe that is what can happen.

I think we have to learn how to speak to Muslims with the purpose of sharing Christ.

There are people doing training around that.

They’re here.

So how can we speak to them about Jesus?

One thing I’m encouraged about is that there are a lot of prayer groups going on now.

There are things moving in a different direction.

I think arrogance interrupts awareness.

We have to realize that if people are here, then the mission field is here.

So what do we do?

How do we use this as a mission field while also understanding the full truth of what people believe?

My preference is not to debate just to win.

I want to compare beliefs and keep the big thing the big thing.

We can look at the Quran and the Bible, compare teachings, and talk about what Christianity teaches about loving your neighbor and honoring people.

But we have to keep the big thing the big thing.

I see a whole lot of distraction within the church that causes division.

The reality is: get people saved.

We have to be very discerning about distraction right now.

Distraction eliminates traction.

It eliminates the possibility of moving forward.

We can’t let small-church thinking become big-church reality.

We can’t let traditions of the past become the defining point of where we are.

We will fragment our capacity to be present.

We will fragment our ability to be powerful.

We will dilute the very thing we believe we’re called to do if we don’t discern distraction.

Tradition is not always our friend.

The Pharisees were very traditional.

I believe that, as believers, we have to go deep and we have to go deep fast in order to hear God in this moment.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

That’ll fly.

Keep your eyes upon Jesus.

When the time comes to make a decision, stay true to what Jesus says.

Don’t be proud.

Be thankful for what God has done through our ancestors and our nation, but also be thankful wherever He works.

I believe America will stand if we stay true to the beliefs that shaped it and stay grounded in Scripture.

Everybody is welcome.

But if you come here, be part of it.

Don’t come to destroy it.

Come here to join in and be part of it.

Boy, time goes by when you have a good talk, doesn’t it?

Speaker 4 – Co-host, Pastor Ron Greer:

Yeah.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

I could work this whole night.

It’ll be another night.

I heard someone say one time, or maybe I read it, that we’ve reproduced a company of walking dead men.

If we see this as spiritual warfare, a spiritual battle, that’s the core of it.

If I saw a guy driving really fast down my street and he was about to hit a child, I could stand on the curb and say, “Oh, I’m so sorry. I forgive you.”

Or maybe I could go out and stop the guy and say, “Enough is enough.”

I have a real concern that, as people are won to Christ, we sometimes reproduce in them an incomplete understanding.

If we’re just going to go out and present Jesus only as meek and mild and never talk about courage, responsibility, and standing for truth, I think we’ve missed part of it.

If this country ever really went to war, I’m too old now, but I would gladly put on a uniform and fight to defend this country.

I’m not saying that lightly.

It brings up so many things.

In terms of developing understanding and awareness, we need strategy and action.

There’s a line from the movie Fury that reminds me of Scripture.

It brings to mind the passage, “Whom shall I send?”

And the answer is, “Here am I. Send me.”

Send me.

I’m not confident we’ve spoken to the hearts of our people enough so that, when the call goes out, people are prepared to say, “Here am I. Send me.”

When 9/11 happened, my brother-in-law left what he was doing, signed up, and went.

“Here am I. Send me.”

Who are the “send me” people now?

Who are we willing to be?

I’ll say one last thing.

In 1967, a very smart man, a very wise man, and someone very close to me said that one of the great dangers for America would be failing to understand that tolerance is not the same thing as love.

As a woman, I will say I’m concerned about women not standing up.

I believe leadership requires courage.

Leadership is not a popularity contest.

It is often one of the most unpopular things you can do.

If everybody always agrees with you, you may not actually be leading.

I love you guys.

Thank you for the opportunity to rain on your parade one more time.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

We’ll all know you’re always provocative.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

Sorry.

I’ll be nice next week.

I promise.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Ron, any last word?

Speaker 4 – Co-host, Pastor Ron Greer:

Again, I would go back to my point.

Notice what God has shown you.

Wake up and strengthen what still remains.

Stand up.

In other words, strap up, armor up, put on your big-boy pants, get out of the pews and into the streets and your neighbors’ houses.

Spread the gospel and stand up boldly to do just that.

Otherwise, we’re done.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Yeah.

And Ron, this week, could you fix McKinney, please?

Speaker 4 – Co-host, Pastor Ron Greer:

I’m working on it, but no one’s listening.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Keep up the good work.

Paul?

Speaker 3 – Co-host, Dr. Paul Hall:

On that note, I’ll say this.

I haven’t been Muslim myself, but I’ve studied the subject and had people in my life who caused me to learn more about it.

It has always been a subject of study for me.

I’ll be honest: what concerns me most is not simply the number of Muslims who are coming here.

It is what I see as the ignorance and sleepingness of people around us.

It’s like someone is about to cut your throat and you’re sharpening the knife for them.

That’s the picture that comes to my mind.

We have historical examples and more recent examples in Europe—Germany, France, Spain, and elsewhere.

And for some reason, Christians are often quiet in the public square, while some politicians welcome changes without, in my view, understanding the consequences.

You mentioned women standing up.

I would disagree on this one point: I think some are standing up, but they may be standing with people who do not share their values.

That is mind-boggling to me.

It brings me back to the question: what does spiritual delusion look like?

What does mass delusion look like when people reject God?

To me, we can see examples every day.

The answer God has given us is His people, His church.

Wake up.

Stand up.

Strengthen what remains.

Rescue what is dying.

Wake up and pay attention to what is done, not just what is said.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

Absolutely.

The currency of craziness, if there is such a thing, is paying attention to what people say and ignoring what they do.

We need to call that out in our own lives as well.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

That’s where it is.

It’s all around us.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, we sure covered some territory tonight.

If you’re in the storm somewhere, we hope you’re safe.

We pray you’re okay.

Terry, thanks so much.

You and Dave are special people.

Thanks for your insight and for your heart for God.

And give your dad a hug for us too.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

Well, he just had an exciting 93rd birthday.

We gave him a huge, fun celebration.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

Wow.

He’s been on the front line.

Ninety-three and still going.

Amen.

Speaker 6 – Guest, Terry Warner:

I love it.

I’ll be back next week.

And hopefully we’ll be on the same thing.

If you don’t get a lot of complaints about me, I’ll be back.

Speaker 2 – Host, Pastor Joe:

There you go.

All right, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for tuning in.

God bless you and keep you.

We’ll see you, same time, same station, next week.

Our prayer is that God speaks to you all during the week and that, as you step out for Him, as we shared tonight, you’ll hear His voice saying, “Well done, my good and faithful servant. I’m right here with you.”

God bless you.

See you next week on Raising Expectations.

Speaker 1 – Prerecorded Announcer / Program Outro Voice:

Friends, thanks for joining us on this week’s program of Raising Expectations.

We hope you found it engaging and, at times, humorous, but most of all uplifting, so that we may, with you, one topic at a time each week, become more encouraged to move forward toward an exciting future in, as we always say, this thing called life in America today.

So let not your hearts be troubled.

Your family, finances, faith, freedom—it can be a great future as we talk, listen, respect, and pull together.

Please let me hear from you.

You can reach me at 972-922-8556 or through Joe on Facebook or LinkedIn.

It would be a pleasure to know you, and we hope you’ll listen again next week on the BBS Radio Network.