Speaker 1 — Announcer
Let’s remember some of the greatest TV and movie stars of yesteryear with the woman who knew them. Mary Jane Popp hosted radio and TV shows for nearly five decades, meeting these stars and getting them to share their real-life stories. You’ll meet them up close and personal as Mary Jane searches her extensive archives for the best and brightest real star talk on Pop Star Talk. And here she is, Mary Jane Popp. Let’s get together for a look back in time on Pop Star Talk.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
Hi, Mary Jane Popp here with my producer, of course, Kenneth Segura. Great to be with you, Ken, on this edition of Pop Star Talk, because we have an interview with one of the nicest and most giving actresses that I’ve ever had the privilege to share the microphone with. I’m so sad to say that she recently passed on: Loretta Swit.

Naturally, we all knew her best from her iconic TV series, MASH*, as Major Margaret Houlihan from the 4077th MASH. But she was so much more. She had strength, complexity, humanity, and she was a real fighter for animal rights, women’s rights, and gender equality. But Ken, I bet you saw every episode of MASH* until it ended, February 28, 1983. I know I did.

Speaker 3 — Ken
Oh, I was a big fan of MASH*, and she elevated her character to almost be the star of the show. As the shows went along, they started writing her character to be much more central to the theme of the show, if you noticed it.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
Yeah. At first, she was sort of there doing her job, and then she slowly evolved into the emotions, her divorce, and other feelings. And of course, her relationship with Major Frank Burns. It was amazing how she developed. There was also so much more to her than most people will ever know behind the scenes. She was an animal activist, and gender equality was at the top of her list, along with women’s rights. So let’s get to it. Let’s get to know this special lady in her own words.

That iconic theme—when you hear it, you know exactly what it is. Sometimes we remember a personality for one special performance. My guest today has that distinction. Yes, we loved her as Hot Lips Houlihan on TV’s iconic MASH* series, of course. But Loretta Swit is so much more. She’s an accomplished artist, and her love for animals has brought her many accolades. Her career has crossed television, film, and stage. Her book, SwitHeart, chronicles her artwork—and wait until you hear who it is going to help.

Loretta Swit, hi, Loretta. How are you doing?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
I’m doing okay. How are you doing?

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
I am so glad that we had the opportunity to get back together again, because you have been such a talent. People are finally discovering something they may not have known about you. You really started your art at age six. That’s incredible.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
That’s true. Well, the thing is, I was more like sketching and doodling at that point. It wasn’t what’s in the book now, which is 65 watercolors that I was never trained to do.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
That’s called God-given talent.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
Absolutely. I accept that, and I’m grateful for it.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
So, 65 images. I was going to ask how many paintings you’ve done, but you’ve probably done a ton and don’t even know.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
Oh, sure. I’m already working on a second edition.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
How did you pick out these 65? You have so many. How did you pick these special ones?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
A lot of them are my number-one favorites. It’s tough. It’s like having children. They all have stories. I had a lot of help. I have a wonderful publisher who is my friend now. Mies Hora helped me select them. A few times we locked horns about something: “I want you to put in my elephant.” “I don’t want to put your elephant in this book. We’re going to do this instead.” But we always managed to rise above it and come out fine friends. With his experience, I trusted him to help me make the right selection.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
The proceeds from SwitHeart go to benefit and protect animals on our planet, right?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
That is correct. It goes into my foundation, which is called the SwitHeart Animal Alliance Foundation. It is kind of a way station. We get donations and channel them out to needy shelters, or the little mom-and-pop shelters that are hobbling along on their own. Wherever we can help, that is what the fund is for. The “Alliance” part of the name is the operative word. We want to ally everyone.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
You have been dedicated to the needs of animals. It’s incredible. How did it all start for you?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
I don’t know. I’ve always loved animals, and I’ve always been, I guess, an activist without knowing it. I think I must have thought, “Doesn’t everybody?” As an adult, I realized everybody didn’t. So I thought, well, somebody has to. So I did.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
Do you have animals?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
I do. Of course I do. Not as many as I was able to have in California. I had a herd of dogs in California.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
No kidding.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
I had six dogs. I probably shouldn’t say that because it was breaking the law. But not anymore. I have a little Yorkshire terrier now, and her name is Munchkin. She is an ancient cat. Everybody is on medication. Everybody is very old. But they’ve had a wonderful, wonderful life with me. I’ve lived with, cared for, and lost many, many animals. You get into your stride, and you live for the moment that you have them, that you can love them and care for them, and then let them go.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
I have to share something with you. We’re on our ninth dog now. My husband and I have been married 46 years, believe it or not. This is our ninth dog. She’s a Samoyed. She’s 19 months old and still like a puppy. We’ve never forgotten any of them. This may sound really weird, but we’ve kept the ashes from all our dogs. We have them all.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
Really? Oh, absolutely. Bless your heart.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
Some people ask, “Are you serious?” Yes, we keep them. They’re all still with us. We have a special cabinet, and the vet made ceramic pieces with their paw prints and names. Periodically, we talk about them and say, “Do you remember this?” and “Do you remember that?” My husband put together a collage of all the dogs from number one to the present one. It’s hanging on our wall.

How can we explain to people who don’t have animals how precious they are and what they give us?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
It’s not like preaching to the choir, but you don’t have to convert everybody. At the very least, if they could appreciate how much we get from our animal companions. I witnessed what happened at the Motion Picture Home. We had three working animals there every week. Just watching what happened to an elderly person, bedridden, when that animal jumped on the bed and curled up in that lap or kissed that face—the AMA has said it’s the best medicine there ever was. We know love is the best medicine.

Animals give us the best kind of love. They give us unconditional love. There is a wonderful saying I ascribe to: “I would like to become the human being that my animal thinks I am.” They worship us. They adore us. What more could you ask?

People live longer who have animals. That has been proven. We have finally given an animal the highest honor we have, the Congressional Medal of Honor, for saving the life of his soldier companion. Dogs have been involved in unimaginable situations, from military service to 9/11, search-and-rescue training, earthquakes, and disasters. If we took a moment, we would understand how bonded we are to our animal companions.

When AIDS came to us and people were afraid to go near AIDS victims because they didn’t know anything about it, the only drop of love those poor people got was from animals. They would hop into laps, kiss them, and give them love. Animals are there for us, and unhappily, we don’t always return that value.

But some of us do. Some of us try. We’ve made a lot of progress. I don’t like to dwell on the negative. I look back, and I can see the great progress that has been made. Certainly women are very much aware now of the fact that it takes many animals to create one coat. Little by little, when people become aware, I have faith that they deliver. I have faith in the spirituality of the people of our planet. I really think goodness overrides everything.

The big issue is that unhappily, human animals are still shooting at each other, still killing each other. So asking people to take a moment to care about a sick or hurting animal is a tough road. But our numbers are growing.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
We can change. This is a personal story, because my father was a furrier. He used to design fur coats for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, way back in the 1940s. I didn’t think anything of it as I was growing up. He used to design coats for me as a little five- or six-year-old. But I won’t do anything like that now. I’ve changed because of people like you.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
You’ve grown. You have evolved. You have learned. It’s consciousness-raising. There’s a mantra everyone should be aware of: you only know what you know. If you don’t know better, and then you learn, you go, “Wait a minute. This is wrong. I can’t do this. I don’t want to do this.” Then you take a look at the substitutes that have come about over the years, and they are beautiful. They’re warm, they don’t need storage, they’re not expensive, and of course, the most important thing is that you’ve saved the lives of all those animals.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
Everybody can do something. If everybody did a little, even if not as much as you’ve done, just a little in the right direction, we would change the world.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
All it takes is lighting one candle. If everybody did that, we would have brightness. We would have a blinding light.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
You’ve always had a positive attitude. How do you keep that going? You’ve had ups and downs in your life, just like everybody else.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
Life should have its ups and downs. If everything were just one big pink glow, how could you continue to appreciate it? When you struggle or survive, that’s what creates character. Everybody knows “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger,” but in essence, that is the fact. It makes you stronger and makes you work harder. That’s what is good about life: we find ways to get around stumbling blocks or jump over them.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
You’re of Polish descent, right?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
Yes.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
That’s so cool, because I was born and raised on the South Side of Chicago and surrounded by Polish culture. My brother went to St. Stanislaus Grade School and learned the Lord’s Prayer in Polish, and we’re Romanian.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
You have caught me the day before I take off for Buffalo to be the grand marshal in the Pulaski Day Parade. This is my third year being the grand marshal.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
How do you stay looking so good? Do you exercise? Do you take supplements?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
I do diligence. Yes, I exercise every day. In addition to that, I walk everywhere. Sometimes five or six miles a day is nothing, just walking and doing chores. I walk rather than ride, drive, or take a bus.

I am a vegan. I believe wholeheartedly in plant-based food. I think it’s a good, healthy lifestyle. I don’t eat animals because they’re my friends, not my food. I don’t think animal fats are something our human body—our human-animal body—can live with very well. I don’t think it’s good for us. I’m vegan, I exercise, and I’m very happy.

The mind is everything. My mind is my most favorite part of my body. If you have control of your mind and respect your mind, you can do almost anything. You can work hard and bring things about. Mindset is everything. It can help you through diseases or surgeries. If your mind is saying you’re going to get through this, I’m telling you, you will. The mind is very powerful.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
Do you have a philosophy that guides your life?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
I believe in goodness. I believe in the goodness of people. Overall, I believe in that spirit in human beings, and I believe it will rise and conquer evil. I believe in the goodness of the human spirit. I believe in our resilience. I believe in mind over everything. They used to say “mind over matter,” and I believe that is a fact. We can bring things about and make good things happen.

This is, of course, a challenge with our current administration and what I feel is the danger our democracy is in at the moment. I feel this administration has given us a new norm, and it is not acceptable. I see more often than not people saying, “This is not acceptable. I don’t believe that. I don’t do that.” I have great hopes for people who say they will resign before doing something illegal. That is my kind of person. That is what I mean about believing in the goodness of people. I think goodness is the strongest force on the planet, and it will always win.

I read something funny the other day that Eleanor Roosevelt said: “Never accept no from a person who doesn’t have the authority to say yes.” I love that woman. I love doing her on stage. She is an inspiration to all of us, especially to women. There was no glass ceiling for her. She broke through and carved out her own path. Feminism may not even have been a commonly used word then, but she just barreled through doing her thing. She was an amazing woman.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
What makes Loretta Swit happy?

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
Everything. Being alive. I love that I’m alive and healthy and running around doing things. I’m a people person. I have a treasury of lovely friends, good friends, wonderful people in my life. I love my work, whether I’m on stage, in front of a camera, painting, or doing a fundraiser for my charities and shelters.

Every act can be loaded with kindness and goodness. That is self-perpetuating. It fills you. It’s like a fountain. Every kindness, every goodness, every piece that you put out there triples and comes right back.

I send clothing to a shelter in Los Angeles. I send clothing I’ve outgrown or worn, or that I have too much of, to a thrift shop in St. Augustine. I’m on the board of Ayla’s Acres. It’s a no-kill rescue shelter. We have a thrift shop run by volunteers. All we do is pay the rent, and everything else goes to Ayla’s Acres.

There is a sweet little room called Loretta’s Loft. It has jewelry, paintings, clothing, luggage, bric-a-brac, and other things. People come to the thrift store to see what is in Loretta’s Loft lately. All that money goes straight to Ayla’s Acres.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
You are a very special lady. You really are. You’re an inspiration. If everyone had your attitude and dedicated themselves to something, that’s what life is all about.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
You need meaning in your life. Otherwise, why do it? If all the meaning you have is going out to dinner, having drinks, dancing, and coming home, it may be fun, but if that’s all you’re doing, it’s not very satisfying after a while. I think the most important thing is to find meaning in your life, to have a really superlative reason to be here.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
Loretta, as always, every time we talk, we run out of time. Thank you so much for being with us today. You’re the best.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
It’s your pleasure, and so are you.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
Good night.

Speaker 4 — Loretta Swit
Good night, darling. Take care. Bye-bye for now.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
And don’t forget, everybody: SwitHeart. You’ve got to get the book. In the meantime, live simply, laugh often, love deeply.

What a lady, Ken. I did that interview in 2017, and she did so much more than MASH*, of course. She appeared across television, including The Love Boat, Win, Lose or Draw, Password, Gunsmoke, Match Game, Pyramid, The Muppet Show, Hollywood Squares, and on and on. But MASH* will always be part of her legacy, and Hot Lips—Major Houlihan, of course.

It’s hard to believe that on February 28, 1983, the last episode of MASH* was watched by 125 million people. That’s amazing. At that time, no one had that kind of viewership.

When I asked her off the air what her favorite part of her body was, she said, “The mind.” Your mind comes before everything. What more can you ask for in an interview? I did a couple of interviews with her, but that was the latest one. I wish I could have talked to her again. I really mean that, because when I said she was special, I meant it.

Speaker 3 — Ken
She was very special. The interviews bring out the real person. In all your interviews, these people relax, and you hear who they are, what they believe in, and it feels very good to know that people are good people. She’s another example of a good person.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
That’s all I ever wanted from the very beginning, when I started doing interviews on television and radio. I just wanted to know them. Who are you? Tell me about you. I care about you. When you care about someone, they open up to you. It’s very special. And you’re very special to be with me too, Ken.

Speaker 3 — Ken
I’m honored to be here. What an opportunity I have to be part of this.

Speaker 2 — Mary Jane Popp
In many ways, we’re creating a history right here.

Okay, folks, that’s it for this edition of Pop Star Talk. I can tell you I will never forget that loving and caring Polish girl who never forgot her background and fought to the end for animal rights, gender equality, and so much more with such grace. Her talents will live on for future generations to enjoy. Rest in peace, dear Loretta, and keep the fight going for what you believe.

Ken and I want to thank you for joining us on Pop Star Talk. Until next time, please remember: live simply, laugh often, love deeply, and always, always dare to dream.