Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Welcome to LEO Round Table at LEORoundTable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are a group of law enforcement professionals who talk about today’s news and issues from a law enforcement perspective.

Before we get into the group, if you guys do not mind waving for the video portion of our show, just so people can tell which one you are. We have Jeff Nicholas, CEO of Complaint Technologies, “the glove guy.” Yes, he is back. We also have Agent Shane, and I am going to let him introduce himself in just one second. Then we have MPO, Master Police Officer, Demetrius over here. I will let you guys introduce yourselves in just one second.

We are still live at the PLECET Conference, and yes, we are still in Dallas, Texas. It has been going pretty good. Jeff was at a rodeo last night, and they got back in one piece. They are not talking a lot about it. I do not know what transpired, but it is all good.

I also want to mention our sponsors first, guys. Police supporter sponsors go to great lengths to bring this good-quality content to you. We have our title sponsor, and that is Galls at Galls.com. Do not forget that discount code: RODEO15, to get 15% off your next purchase. We have Complaint Technologies, and that is Jeff’s company. Of course, we all know about their glove. That is their flagship product. It was on demonstration a couple days ago, and it was pretty impressive.

We have GunLearn.com, MyMedicare.live, and the new online store at LEORoundTable.com. Please check that out in case you want to get cool gear like the shirt I am wearing. You cannot see it, but you will in a minute. Brett is wearing one as well.

A shout-out to our partners who are helping to get this content out there. We have Brian Burns with the Tampa Free Press. He is also getting our content on MSN through TampaFP.com. We have Ray Dietrich with FormerLawman.com, and Travis Yates, our very own, with LawOfficer.com.

Guys ask us, “How can we watch your show?” The best thing to do is go to LEORoundTable.com. The top menu bar tells you every outlet we are on. If it is a radio station, it gives the location, date, time, signal, and all that stuff. We are on podcast platforms. Specifically, yes, we are on Spotify and Apple iTunes. We are also on social media: Rumble, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter/X, Truth Social, and all those outlets as well.

Please check out the show. Watch it regularly. It is a daily show. The live show runs at 12:00 Eastern every day, and then we have a produced version of that live show that comes out at 9:00 the next morning, where we embed any videos that we end up talking about.

That said, I am going to have our guests go. That is a screenshot from yesterday’s show, by the way, that our producer put up there. It just happened to pop up on my screen.

Jeff, why do you not go first? I know people are familiar with you, but why do you not refresh their memory about Complaint Technologies, and then we will let our other guys go.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
Yes. We are glad to be here at PLECET. We are one of the sponsors here for that. I believe our technology fits in with what PLECET and community relations is all about: low-optics, humane de-escalation for a minimum uniform.

It is truly non-lethal and a very humane alternative when we talk about use of force. We have had hundreds of thousands of uses with no injuries and no lawsuits. We are growing across the nation and around the world. We are just glad to be here and glad to be on the platform with you.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
All right, I love it. Demetrius, why do you not go ahead and take it up next?

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
Sure. My name is Demetrius. I am a retired Master Police Officer from Arlington County, Virginia. I am now the executive vice president of State’s Night LLC.

I have been here multiple times. I was here at the inaugural PLECET Conference. I am spreading the message here that if we are going to professionalize this, we need to introduce evidence-based research and practice to this work. We cannot keep winging it, and traditional community policing just is not cutting it.

Just doing events like Coffee with a Cop is not enough. We need formal, systematic ways of building relationships with people who are closest to the problems. That is what I have been spreading the gospel about here at this conference specifically.

In our work with State’s Night, I get to work on a myriad of problems, whether it is homelessness or downtown violence. We work with cities and kind of herd the cats. We introduce a unified strategy. We introduce evidence-based research to support our work and then empower those agencies to follow a blueprint that they can replicate for lots of different problems.

It is about co-production of safety. That is really what we are focused on. I love coming here and getting people introduced to a new way of thinking about things. This is really where we should be going as a profession. It is encouraging to hear federal agencies and directors talk about these things. I think they are starting to recognize that more needs to be done, and there is a path to do it.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Yes, and you put out fires for a living.

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
Yes, I wish cities would call us when the house is not burning and do this work on the front end. But you are right. Prevention is really what gets you through this. We have to stop doing things in reactive ways.

That is how I spent most of my career: reacting to calls. Then you realize that being in charge of a multidisciplinary team that includes fire, code compliance, public health, the state ABC, and others means more can be done when you have more people on that same prevention framework, and when they know what their jobs and accountabilities are, instead of just people doing stuff.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
I am going to go ahead and say what Brett is thinking right now, because people cannot see him. Brett is walking around filming. Brett is thinking, “The advantage here is that he is putting out fires, but he is not a hose dragger.” That is what Brett is thinking right now.

Brett also brought up your point: every cop wants to be a fireman, and every fireman wants to be a cop.

Speaker 5 – Brett / Panelist:
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Brett taught me that firefighters are firefighters only because they could not become cops. We are having fun with our firefighter brothers and sisters.

Now, Shane, we had some people come by and say that you really go by “Sugar Shane.” I did not see that on the paperwork. I would like you to explain. But Sugar, I mean Shane, you are up. Introduce yourself, buddy.

Speaker 4 – Agent Shane / Guest:
First of all, thank you for having me here. This is my first time here. I am here as a speaker. I am a federal agent with the Department of Homeland Security, based in the Washington Field Office. I say Washington Field Office, but I am actually, essentially, with most federal agencies.

I represent the National Asian Peace Officers’ Association, NAPOA. I am the current president. I am in my third year. I have one more year left, thank God.

Why am I here for this conference specifically? I was asked to speak about the challenges we have within the Asian community. Within our association, we represent not just Chinese and Koreans. There are some challenges within them alone, the Japanese, and we also have the Desi society. We are extremely diverse.

We represent about 4,000 Asians and Asian Americans in North America, with 30 chapters. When we look at the demographics of the U.S., the population is about 30% or more on the West Coast, 25% on the East Coast and Northeast, and then when you look at the overall picture of the U.S., take out Minnesota, Chicago, Houston, and Dallas, and they are kind of spread out. We are trying to reach them as well.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here. Culturally, we have our issues. Our issues are, if you are not a doctor, an attorney, or a CPA, you are a bad Korean.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
So you are saying Asians who get into law enforcement are not the best?

Speaker 4 – Agent Shane / Guest:
They are pretty good, but they are not doctors and attorneys. That is something we are trying to stress to the Asian community, that it is okay to give back. It really is.

I am not sure if you remember Winston Lew in New York. He was assassinated. It was him and his partner. He was an immigrant. He wanted to join the NYPD. He wanted to give back to his adopted country. He is an inspiration.

I myself am adopted, so yes, I wanted to give back to my community, my American community, my home. We are trying to get to the parents and the culture and say it is okay.

I will tell you a story about a good friend. You might know him, actually, Wilson Lee out of Fairfax.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
No, I am not familiar with him.

Speaker 4 – Agent Shane / Guest:
Assistant chief over there. He was going to school as an engineer. He told his parents he was going to switch and go into law enforcement. They did not want to talk to him.

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
Shane, I would lie to you, but I am with you. Try convincing my Greek uncles that I should not continue to run the diner.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
There is a track to lead me. We all like to run a diner at some point, but did they make good gyros? Tell me where it is.

You are making a great point, though, that there is a track that is expected.

Speaker 4 – Agent Shane / Guest:
Yes, 100%. It is not just Asians, but it is a false law.

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
No, it is the best way to give back.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Thank you, gentlemen. I am glad to have you guys on the show.

I know we have two minutes. Brett is working his way around the corner. I know we kind of hinted that Kash Patel was going to be talking yesterday, and this is after we got done talking about Todd Blanche. We have had the director for the ATF. We have had the DEA here. I think I am missing an agency.

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
ATF and FBI.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Yes, it has been an incredible show. Brett worked his way around. I want you guys to update the audience on what happened with the talk with Kash Patel.

Speaker 5 – Brett / Panelist:
What I took away from these conversations was that I had never heard anybody at that level say it. He wants to bring his agency closer to the community, and these are my words, not his, and not have those levels of separation.

Right now, it is federal, state, local, then people. I think he wants to get rid of the separation. He was talking about having people come visit the local field offices. It was really encouraging, because law enforcement is us. We are law enforcement. They are us. It is very encouraging to hear him say, “We want to bring the community closer to us.” I thought that was very good.

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
You are on to something here, and that is that there has always been a real separation between federal agencies and state agencies. We know local cops are pretty good at being in the neighborhoods and getting to know the folks they work with, right? But there is a real divide and separation between federal and state agencies.

You do not commonly see state troopers doing a whole lot of community engagement, and you definitely do not see federal law enforcement doing that kind of work. So he kind of put a flag in the sand, saying this is going to be important to our agencies. We are going to take this seriously and commit to this.

Just by the fact that they are showing up here and saying that at a conference like this, rather than perhaps like IACP, it is making a statement that this is a core value. They need a process, essentially, to fill that. That is what separates philosophy from actually getting something done.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Perfect timing. Guys, we are up for our first commercial break. Thank you. We will be right back.

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Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
We have Agent Shane here, Sugar Shane. Brett is shaking his head. If Brett was hosting the show, then it would be much more. I do not know what would be said. You never know. He would be doing things like, “Pull my finger,” stuff like that. You never know.

Brett just came on the show and talked about some of the stuff that Kash was talking about yesterday. The format for Kash, as opposed to our AG Todd Blanche, was a little different. It was more of a sit-down roundtable, kind of like a Q&A thing. The format was a little bit different.

It was kind of cool, because during the live show yesterday, right over in that room, there was Secret Service everywhere. Kash was in there getting ready to go out. As soon as we shut down, he was going onstage. There was a lot of activity. Every time a Secret Service guy would walk by and try not to stick out, Brett would wave at him and try to get their attention. Brett, you were just like, “Oh, dude.”

Speaker 5 – Brett / Panelist:
They all have mirrored sunglasses.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Yes, you have some in your cabinet.

You were talking about putting out fires, so let us go to that. We have seen a lot going on. There are a lot of communities battling everything from retention rates with police departments to things going on in the community. I am not talking about riots and mayhem. I am talking about quality-of-life issues, for lack of a better term.

You have a municipality or jurisdiction that is dealing with the homeless population. I think it is fairly safe to say that, historically, you have other issues that can complicate that. You may have a higher-crime area because of that. I am not saying that we have all the answers, but you likely do, Demetrius, because you deal with this on a daily basis.

If you are watching the show, if you are supporting law enforcement and you live in an area that has issues like that, or if you are active or retired law enforcement, especially active, or maybe you are a command-staff-level person and you have had issues with how to address and deal with that, and you are worried about expense and certainly about optics, how do you deal with that, Demetrius?

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
In my role with Safe Night, we are asked to come to communities and deal with these very complex issues.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
So the community will call you guys to come in?

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
Yes, and it could be the municipality. It could be the city administrator. It could be the continuum of care that is running the homeless outreach response for the state or that section of the state.

What we really find is that we hear a lot of police chiefs and executives say, “We are not going to arrest our way out of the problem.” They do not really know what that means. It is easy to say that to a reporter or for media, but actually having your officers on the ground know what to do and how to manage these issues is where the separation is.

Research came out from the National Policing Institute that there is no formal model for the law enforcement response to homelessness. Everyone is just kind of winging it. There are very successful programs, like in Wichita and Houston. But when you want to start doing this work at a high level in your city, you just reach out to those cops and say, “What are you guys doing?” They send the SOP or general orders, and you just hope you are doing the right things.

What we are saying is that through our model, with the proactive alliance homeless outreach model, this model is backed by research. We know what works and why. The research also suggests and tells us that police need to support social services. It needs to be in coordination. Police need to be a spoke in the wheel as opposed to leading these efforts.

It is frankly unfair to law enforcement to expect this level of care and work because they are going to do what they know to do. We really only know that if we see a problem and we see a crime, we are going to make an arrest. But that puts a strain on the system. We know that it is not an efficient way to do work.

That is really what we are talking about. Police need to understand how they can support this work in a better way. Enforcement is sometimes an option, but as long as it is done in a coordinated way. Trying to convince people and help them understand that they all need to work together is the hard part, because we all work in silos. We are all just doing stuff to do stuff.

Bringing all those people together for a unified outcome is a different story. Now you have accountability for social services. Now you have accountability for the police department. Now you have accountability for the state agencies. You cannot just say, “We are doing stuff in our own little silo anymore.”

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Thank you. Jeff, that is in the same way as what you are doing, because you are working with mental health facilities, and you are up close and personal with the homeless population. You are worried about optics in case you have to do the law enforcement thing.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
Can I comment on what he said?

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
Yes, we are working with all those, and we have great results. But this is what has happened over the years: sheriffs and county jails have become the mental health institutions for the country. They are not funded. They are not equipped. It is a drain on resources.

It is exactly what he is talking about. I know the Trump administration is working on bringing back behavioral health institutions and facilities, which is what we desperately need, because that would be a burden off sheriffs and police departments dealing with that, knowing that there is a place to go besides just the county jail. That just creates a whole other set of circumstances inside the jails, and it causes a lot of problems.

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
To your point, housing first works, but it needs another component. It cannot be one or the other. It is something in the middle. You cannot just put all the weight on the jails.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
They are not trained and do not know how to do it. Corrections officers are not trained to do behavioral health, and it becomes basically a holding pen. It just creates all kinds of dysfunction.

Speaker 3 – Demetrius / Guest:
Right. When the goal is to get them into services and get them into housing.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Shane, I do not know if you remember, but I started my law enforcement career before you did. I was in 1983, and there were mental health facilities everywhere. Brett remembers because we were there. There were mental health facilities everywhere in Florida. We call it Baker Acts. We got these guys the help they needed. They could self-admit, or they could go through a 24- or 48-hour hold when we did it.

In the 1990s, we started seeing these places disappear. The sad thing is just like Jeff said, and he is right: we still institutionalize these guys, but we do it in prisons, where they cannot get the help they need.

I think every active LEO had a light bulb go off and said, “We are doing things differently.” We could go wrong with that when you said—

Speaker 4 – Agent Shane / Guest:
When you and Brett did it, were you guys roommates?

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Yes, no, we were there.

All right, guys, we are going for our second commercial break. We will be right back.

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Welcome back to LEO Round Table at LEORoundTable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock. I am your host. Yes, we are still joined by CEO Jeff Nicholas from Complaint Technologies, the glove. He has brought out a couple of gloves. I do not know if it is too intimidating or not, but they are sitting on the table. I do not think they are active, so I think we are okay.

We have Lieutenant Matthew. I am going to let him introduce himself in one second. Reverend Markel, I tell you, I am so excited to get you on the show.

Speaker 7 – Reverend Markel Hutchins / Guest:
It is a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Why do you guys go ahead and introduce yourselves first to the audience that may be familiar with you or may not know? Tell our audience, and the camera is right there, who you are.

Also, if you could plug the conference, I want people to know about the conference. I know you typically relocate every year to a new location. I do not know if you are ready to announce the location for next year yet or not, but I want people to find out about this so they can support it, especially people who want to sponsor it.

Speaker 7 – Reverend Markel Hutchins / Guest:
I am Reverend Markel Hutchins. I am the chairman and CEO of MovementForward and the lead organizer of our core programming, National Faith and Blue Weekend, which is, of course, the largest law enforcement community engagement program in the country.

There are thousands of faith-based organizations that have partnered with law enforcement across all 50 states in this country. Faith and Blue Weekend is every October. It is the second weekend in October.

We created Faith and Blue Weekend, and out of that has grown the Professionalizing Law Enforcement-Community Engagement Training, or PLECET, national conference.

The whole point of this conference, Chip, is to ensure that we are getting to the field the best practices, the most current research, and the best scholarship available around community engagement, which encompasses community policing, community outreach, and community affairs.

There is not a more critical topic or hot topic in the profession today than community engagement, because community relationships are not just about niceties. I think agencies are really beginning to understand that you cannot recruit and retain, you cannot hire new people, and you cannot build trust, which ultimately means it is difficult to reduce crime without good community relationships.

Before we created this conference, community policing was treated more as an ancillary function, as opposed to a core and essential element of a public safety strategy. We created PLECET with all the national groups specifically to professionalize community outreach, community engagement, and community policing within the profession as a rigorously trained specialized discipline within policing, just like SWAT, narcotics, forensics, or any other specialty area.

That is what PLECET is all about. I can tell you, as you can tell, the response has been overwhelming. This is just the fourth year, and Jeff, we have grown this tremendously.

As your audience may have heard by now through the show yesterday, the Attorney General of the United States of America, the head of the FBI, the U.S. Marshals Service, but most importantly, community-focused law enforcement professionals at every level of law enforcement are here. Local, state, federal, tribal, transit, campus, even military police and prosecutors are here from across all 50 states.

It is really a powerful testament that there is a desire in the profession to focus on how best to utilize community relations and relationships to reduce crime. That is why I think we have had some successful places.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
I love it. Audience, notice that he said “training” a number of times. Most of the people involved with LEO Round Table are trainers at heart, and that really creates a core value system. Training is so important, so I love the way you highlighted that.

We have Lieutenant Matthew on the other end here. Could you introduce yourself, please, and tell people about your background?

Speaker 8 – Lieutenant Matthew McKinney / Guest:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me. My name is Matthew McKinney. I am a lieutenant with the Urbana Police Department in Urbana, Illinois. I work in our services division. I started out as a patrol officer, worked my way up to patrol sergeant, and I was a team leader of our countywide SWAT team.

Just like Reverend Hutchins said, I cannot thank him and this organization, MovementForward, enough. About four years ago, when the first conference really started to happen, I heard about it. Community engagement was always one of the passions of my career, but I was never really given any direction or advice on what that should look like or how that should go.

When I saw that this conference was going to happen, my department was lucky enough to send two people. Myself and Dr. LaShonda Cunningham, at the time, attended the conference. Each year, we sent more people. We brought four people. We are a mid-sized agency. We have 63 sworn on staff, and we purposely make it a point, because this conference and this training are so valuable and important, that we budget for this and plan ahead.

We know the impact, and we have seen it firsthand now. My chief at the Urbana Police Department, Larry D. Boone, came to us from Norfolk, which is a large agency, with a very different mindset than we had typically had. That really facilitated us being able to take part in this training and expand.

We have felt firsthand what that relationship and authenticity with our community, partners, and stakeholders really can do. We have benefited greatly from this organization, this training, and consistency with really engaging with our community in meaningful, boots-on-the-ground-type ways.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
I love it. Reverend, if people are watching this and saying, “We want to get involved,” or “We want to find out what is going to happen next year,” I know the current website is PLECETConference2026.org, I believe.

Speaker 7 – Reverend Markel Hutchins / Guest:
Yes.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
So how can they get more information?

Speaker 7 – Reverend Markel Hutchins / Guest:
They can certainly call us at the national office at 404-605-7000. Within the next few months, we will go through the process of determining where the PLECET Conference will be held.

One of the things we are really focused on this year, and I had some great conversation with the Attorney General yesterday, is that we really want to make sure that in 2027, we make PLECET as accessible as possible to small and mid-sized agencies.

There is so much emphasis in policing, especially in these types of circles, on big agencies, large major agencies, major sheriff’s offices, and police departments. But really, most law enforcement officers in this country work in small and rural agencies. We want them to have access to the type of training that is available at PLECET.

As Lieutenant McKinney mentioned, most often when a person is assigned to community policing or community outreach, they receive no direction. They receive no training. It is kind of treated, as I suggested, as an ancillary function, like, “Hey, Officer Mike, I think you would be good. Now you are in community engagement. Go do great things,” without any sort of direction.

That is very different than every other specialized function within policing. When we started to see that, we said that this particular area of law enforcement is increasingly critical, particularly given all that has happened over the last decade. We ought to provide the same level of support and training to the women and men who do the work of community outreach on behalf of their agencies, again understanding very clearly that it is an essential, important, and vital part of any crime-reduction strategy.

That is how we came to the place where we are offering this conference broadly.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Let me ask you, even if you get promoted, most agencies have detectives, but you are not going to get the training. They just say, “Hey, go figure it out.” How do you now do late investigations? It is so different from patrol work.

Brett, how much training did you get when you became a captain?

Speaker 5 – Brett / Panelist:
Zero.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Zero, right.

If you are talking about smaller and mid-sized agencies too, they simply do not have the infrastructure and the ability to get help. Even with relationships with state attorneys and district attorney offices, it just does not necessarily exist. Sometimes they get information about new search-and-seizure laws and Supreme Court decisions, or lower court decisions, from shows like this.

If you are a middle- to smaller-sized agency, and they are on board and want to establish some of the things you are talking about, but they do not have the people to write SOPs or come up with the training, what resources are available to them to get that done?

Speaker 7 – Reverend Markel Hutchins / Guest:
Part of why we created the PLECET Conference was to provide an avenue for people who do this body of work to connect to their colleagues across the country. I cannot tell you the number of people who have said to me that one of the best things they got out of this conference was being introduced to some of their colleagues who do the same kind of work across the country.

If you are a police chief or a sheriff, you get to go to the National Sheriff’s Association Conference, or the IACP conference, or your state chiefs’ or sheriffs’ conference, and it gives you the opportunity to collaborate with your counterparts and colleagues. Before we created this conference, there was not that opportunity for people responsible for community engagement. They were kind of left to their own devices.

So one of the things that I think is a major outcome, and one of the things people can do, is get here. Again, we will decide over the next few months. There are a lot of factors that come into play in terms of our decision-making about where the conference will be, but the most important consideration is cost.

This is a five-day conference, and the cost of the training to attend and register is $399. That is less than half of what most conferences offer that are much shorter. We try to make this affordable. It is very difficult because we do not get the sort of funding and support that organizations that are not as interested in bringing law enforcement and communities together receive.

But we do all that we can with the little resources we have. We are going to continue to expand and hope that small and mid-sized agencies are able to take advantage of this.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
We are coming up on our third commercial break. Guys, stick with us. Reverend, everybody, we will be right back.

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They have partnered with SmarterDegree and university partners to make that worth college credit. That is a huge deal. Again, it is a certified firearm specialist certification from GunLearn.com.

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Welcome back to LEO Round Table at LEORoundTable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. Yes, we still have CEO Jeff Nicholas.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
You called me by my right name the entire show.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
I did not call you Jack today.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
You did not call me Jack today.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
I wish I could play golf like Jack Nicklaus.

We have Lieutenant Matthew over here on the side of the screen, ready to talk about something. We also have a new addition. It is not Reverend Markel. He has been swapped out. We actually have Officer Maria here. Welcome to the show. Can you give people a little introduction about who you are and your background?

Speaker 9 – Officer Maria Owens / Guest:
Of course. Hi, everyone. I am Officer Maria Owens. I am from Philly PD. I am currently a community relations officer assigned to our Police Explorers unit.

Our Police Explorers unit is like a mini police academy. We train young adults from ages 14 to 20 and do all the different trainings, then build them up so they can apply straight into the department.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
I am glad you brought that up. We have an Explorer program at my agency, Tampa. If you had to guess, what percentage of those Explorers, whether they are in the program for years or maybe short term, actually go on to become police officers? Do you have any idea?

Speaker 9 – Officer Maria Owens / Guest:
I do not know the full percentage, but I know just last year alone, we had five go into the department. Currently, we have three going through the process. We will have another two who will apply by the end of the year, and then next year, we have five applying.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
That is substantial to me. Parents, if you are watching this program and your kids have an interest, and you are wondering whether there is any benefit or whether they are going to transition into law enforcement, apparently there is a decent chance that they could, or at least they will find out whether they want to or not by doing the Explorer program.

Speaker 9 – Officer Maria Owens / Guest:
We also have a lot who, even though they do not want to go into law enforcement, still stay from the age of 14 to 20 because it gives them discipline and responsibilities. We have ranks, so you can become a corporal, a sergeant, a lieutenant, or a captain, and they kind of run themselves.

We are there for support, but for the most part, the cadets are the ones who put on the program and all of that. We do some of the trainings, but they run the thing themselves.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
They can be in the program until they are 20 years old?

Speaker 9 – Officer Maria Owens / Guest:
Twenty years old. We also currently have a program with one of our city departments where, at the age of 18, they can get a job with the city department that does security in Center City. It is called Center City District. They will apply there and get a job.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
That is pretty good. I just learned something. I did not know all that.

Lieutenant, I know you wanted to expound on some stuff, so the microphone is yours.

Speaker 8 – Lieutenant Matthew McKinney / Guest:
I appreciate it. One of the things Reverend Hutchins touched on was smaller to mid-sized agencies and the difficulty sometimes sending people to training, especially these bigger ones. They have been very thoughtful about that.

One of the other things that came after the first year this training was hosted was the Law Enforcement Community Engagement Network. Every other professional organization in policing, like SWAT has ITOA and NTOA, drug enforcement has its groups, chiefs have their police associations, and the goal is similar with MovementForward.

They started the Law Enforcement Community Engagement Network. It is all like-minded folks who are officers or work in this space, and they have the ability, with trainings and message boards, to share information. If you do not have the opportunity to go to a training or send multiple people, it is a good place to go to interface, get ideas, and share, “Hey, this worked really well,” or “This did not work really well.”

LECN is the acronym. It is LECN.org. If you are an officer out there in one of those agencies, or you are in a big one, it is a great place. Go online and join. We would love to have you. It is a fantastic opportunity to really learn and grow. It does not really cost a whole lot for your department, other than time and energy.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
When the Reverend was talking, he did not use the word “relationships,” but he essentially was talking about relationships. We have quickly seen this conference do exactly that. Especially when you are talking about smaller and medium-sized agencies, it is all about hooking them up with partners to help get that done, which is what you are talking about.

Even Jeff here with Complaint Technologies and the glove, which again, I just want to point out is not a less-lethal device. It is non-lethal. They have never had an injury resulting from that. When I got gloved, I was trying to injure myself, and I was just unable to. There are other devices out there that lock you up, and when you go down, you have no way to protect yourself. You can face-plant, you can hit a curb, and there has been some stuff going on with that.

But with the glove, you are able to put your hand out and protect yourself, roll, break your fall, and all that stuff. That is amazing. When you are talking about optics and dealing with the public up close, and you have a situation where a lot of law enforcement officers today have become so reliant on other devices that they do not want to go hands-on anymore, as a guy who started back in 1983, watching our cops not have their confidence to go hands-on bothers me.

When you add distance, things just escalate. You are not, a lot of times, slowing things down without going hands-on. The glove gives those officers, even if they are smaller or if they have never been in a fight before, which a lot of guys going through training have never been in a fight before until they get to the police academy, a little boost of confidence.

Now they have something in just a glove. You can shoot with it. You can do whatever you normally would do with it. Even if it is active, I can do all this, and it is not going to activate unless I touch skin. You can put a 300-pound dude on the ground, and the optics are beautiful. It does not look bad. He looks like he just put himself on the ground.

There are a lot of good things happening, but relationships are going on through this conference.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
Can I just speak to the Kirk Mullen rule? I think most people do not realize, I ask a lot of people, even in law enforcement, what is the average size of a police department in our country? It is 10 officers.

If we have an 84% reduction in injuries to that department that has 10 guys, and you lose one to an injury, you have just lost 10% of your force.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
That is a good point, because then he will feel pressure to come back and maybe he is not 100%.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
This is one of the reasons why we started this company. It was not about—

Speaker 9 – Officer Maria Owens / Guest:
We are hoping to start a test and evaluation in Philly soon.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
Right.

Speaker 9 – Officer Maria Owens / Guest:
We have so many officers who get injured, especially when they go hands-on. So many people have injuries.

Speaker 2 – Jeff Nicholas / Guest:
That is why we started it. I do not want this to be a commercial for Complaint Technologies, because there are so many challenges, but I do want to say one thing about PLECET.

PLECET is going to become a conference that is equal to the National Sheriffs’ Association. It is going to be equal to IACP. Give it three years. It is going to be one of the go-to conferences, because of the topics.

This is one of the reasons why we started this tool: to build better relationships because of low optics and de-escalation, to create better optics, better communication, and a better society. I feel honored to be here alongside these guys who do this hard work. I really appreciate this opportunity.

Speaker 8 – Lieutenant Matthew McKinney / Guest:
Chip, if you will indulge me, I have a story. I will make it quick.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
When guests share stories, “quick” is always shorter than a minute and 29 seconds. We are done.

Speaker 8 – Lieutenant Matthew McKinney / Guest:
Exactly what you are saying is accurate. I appreciate you being here and other organizations with amazing products that can help us and the public.

This conference is relationship building 101. A perfect example is that last year there was a horrible tragedy. An officer in Chicago PD was killed. As a perfect example of relationship building, Officer Owens, who I met last year at the conference, went out of her way to collect money and bring dinner to the precinct that was affected.

Multiple other parts of Chicago PD were taken care of because of people like Maria. It was fantastic to watch. It was unbelievably impressive. These kinds of relationships are because of this conference. That is what happens from stuff like this.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
Wow. It really is all about relationships. That is a fantastic story.

Guys, I know we have 33 seconds before we start winding down. I was going to ask if you guys had the glove yet, and then you beat me to it.

Speaker 9 – Officer Maria Owens / Guest:
We need the glove. We are almost there. Our city has a lot of big events coming up starting in the next week, so the glove would be amazing.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock / Host:
All right. Guys, thank you so much for being here. Lieutenant Matthew, Officer Maria, and my cohort, Jeff Nicholas, not Jack Nicklaus, with Complaint Technologies and the glove.

We are here wrapping up the tail end of the PLECET Conference in Dallas, Texas. It is PLECETConference2026.org in case anybody wants to check it out. We just had Reverend Markel Hutchins on the show talking about how, in the next couple months, they are going to announce where the next conference is going to be. I am curious, because I went to the one two years ago in Atlanta, and I cannot wait to hear it. I think we will all be here doing the same thing and being part of that.

Lieutenant Matthew McKinney, and I am looking here because I did not memorize the last name, and Officer Maria Owens, thank you guys so much for being on the show. Also, Jeff Nicholas with Complaint Technologies, thank you so much.

I want to recognize our sponsors who go to great lengths to bring this quality content to you. We have Galls.com, ComplaintTechnologies.com, and GunLearn.com.

Thanks, guys, for watching the show. We appreciate it, and we will see you back on Monday at 12:00 noon Eastern.