Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 - Host: The host identifies himself at the opening as Chip DeBlock and leads the show, sponsor mentions, topic introductions, and closing remarks.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: Identified in the transcript as a former Secret Service Special Agent in Charge. The transcript gives the name in several inconsistent forms, so the most likely rendering used here is Rich Deripoli, with the exact spelling listed for verification.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: Identified as Lieutenant Randy Sutton, retired Las Vegas Metro Police Lieutenant and founder of The Wounded Blue. This identification is stated repeatedly in the transcript, with minor transcription errors corrected.

Speaker 4 - Prerecorded Sponsor Voice: Used for the Galls advertisement segment. The voice and phrasing are distinct from the live panel discussion.

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: Used for brief quoted or partially intelligible audio from the LAPD and Ohio officer-involved shooting videos. Some commands and background speech were unclear in the automated transcript and are marked where necessary.

Speaker 1 - Host: Welcome to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are a group of law enforcement professionals who talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective.

Speaker 1 - Host: Let me introduce the crew. For those watching the video portion of our show, yes, we have former Secret Service Special Agent in Charge Rich Deripoli on the show. We also have Lieutenant Randy Sutton, retired Las Vegas Metro Police Lieutenant and founder of The Wounded Blue, at thewoundedblue.org. Thanks, gentlemen. Randy also has a summit coming up, and we want to hear more about that.

Speaker 1 - Host: A shout-out to our sponsors. We have Galls at galls.com, Compliant Technologies at complianttechnologies.com, our satellite sponsor, GunLearn.com, MyMedicare.live, and Tobells.com. They built our new online store at leoroundtable.com, so please go there and check out the cool gear.

Speaker 1 - Host: The shirt I am wearing is Randy's shirt. You really cannot get it at Leo Roundtable, but you can get it at thewoundedblue.org. Actually, they have some new versions of the shirt now. I do not even know if this one is being made anymore. If it is not, maybe it is worth something.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: It might be worth something one day.

Speaker 1 - Host: I may have to take good care of the shirt then. The nice thing about Randy's shirt is that it makes your arms look huge.

Speaker 1 - Host: We also have a shout-out to Brian Burns, Free Press, and Law Officer. Thanks to all those guys for helping us out. Also, Scott Staird, our Green Beret Delta Force guy, wants me to get the word out more about how people can hear the show. I think we are on every podcast outlet known to man, especially Spotify and Apple Podcasts. We are also all over social media: Rumble, YouTube, Facebook, X, formerly Twitter, Truth Social, and the list goes on.

Speaker 1 - Host: The best way to figure it out is to go to our website, leoroundtable.com. The top menu bar has a link in the schedule for everywhere we are, including the 47 radio stations that carry us. The call signs, radio numbers, dates, and times that they broadcast the show are all listed there, so please check that out.

Speaker 1 - Host: What in the world are we going to be talking about today? We have a contingency here with the good news. Trump's “great deal” opens the Strait of Hormuz, but Israel is vowing to stay in Lebanon. I love Israel, and I feel compelled to support Israel. However, there is an issue going on with Israel right now. I do not know what the answer is. Hopefully, what Trump has going on will not be ruined by what Israel is doing. Hopefully, they will figure it out.

Speaker 1 - Host: Then we have hot grease and stabbing. A Michigan drive-through dispute ends in attempted murder charges. We have had a cop in jail because he shot and killed a female, and more specifically, a Black female, which is critical to the story. She picked up a pot of boiling hot water and went to throw it on him and his partner. A lot of people do not understand that, culturally, that is a thing for Black women, because they are doing it to Black men. I lived through this in my law enforcement career back in the 1980s, so this is another example. I am not making that up. It is a thing, and that is why I am hoping we can cover it.

Speaker 1 - Host: We have a couple of stories with video components. LAPD shoots a knife-wielding suspect during a burglary call. Both of these back-to-back are crazy. The next one is a suspect fatally shot in the woods after he shoots an officer during a traffic stop and flees. That is crazy. We have a Florida prosecutor indicted after secretly emailing sealed special counsel files to her personal account. I know we covered parts of this before. I figure Rich will probably get a lot out of that one. Then the Miami-Dade Sheriff's Office releases body-camera video of a deputy shooting an armed 15-year-old. That is what we have, assuming we have time to get to all those stories.

Speaker 1 - Host: If you guys are ready, we will start with the biggest news right now, which involves what Trump is doing. We have been waiting on this for a while. This is from the Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com: “Trump's Great Deal Opens the Strait of Hormuz, but Israel Vows to Stay in Lebanon.”

Speaker 1 - Host: For people who are not up to speed, the goal of the show is to make you among the smartest people in the room when you get into these types of conversations. We are trying to bring you up to speed. This major diplomatic breakthrough has been on the verge of happening for a long time. In fact, it has been on the verge of happening for so long that whenever I hear there is a deal in the works, or that it is going to happen, I stop paying attention because I figure that if the Iranians' lips are moving, they are lying. I do not trust anything they say.

Speaker 1 - Host: Even though this is being put together, I have doubts about how long it is going to last. This deal is between the United States and Iran, and it would clear the way to reopen the vital Strait of Hormuz, which will excite a lot of people, especially countries whose livelihoods depend on this. Regional stability, the article says, remains highly volatile because Israel flatly refuses to pull its troops out of southern Lebanon, which is critical for allowing this thing to happen.

Speaker 1 - Host: President Trump announced on Sunday that the two nations reached a memorandum of understanding. That comes before you sign on the dotted line. He is calling it a great deal that will bring peace and security to the entire region, which is where Israel is as well. The agreement is set to be signed this coming Friday and follows months of heavy conflict that began on February 28. The date is important because it gives you a little hourglass into how long it has really been. This started on the last day in February, so it has been going on for about four months.

Speaker 1 - Host: Remember, we were doing massive strikes with Israel, and we have reinitiated those strikes from time to time. Trump noted that oil will begin flowing through the Strait of Hormuz immediately after the paperwork is finalized, because it has been shut down.

Speaker 1 - Host: On Monday, Israeli Defense Minister Israel Katz and National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir made it clear that the agreement would not alter Israel's military footprint on the ground. They are not going to change anything to help this thing go through. Ben-Gvir said, “Israel is not subordinate to the United States, and we are an independent and sovereign state. We must not withdraw from any territory that our fighters have occupied and cleared of terrorist infrastructure.”

Speaker 1 - Host: Katz echoed that hardline stance. He stated that he and Prime Minister Netanyahu are enforcing a clear policy to keep the Israel Defense Forces in the newly established security zones they have already cleared out in Lebanon, Syria, and Gaza. He used the word “indefinitely.” According to Katz, these areas will be cleared of local residents, and all infrastructure serving as terrorist outposts will be destroyed.

Speaker 1 - Host: Netanyahu himself has not yet publicly commented on the U.S.-Iran understanding. Israel does not want these places to be used for terrorist activity. They are close, they can do a lot of damage, and Israel wants to pretty much wipe everything out, clean it out, and have a visual that no one is getting in, at least no bad actors. That is where we are. But it could ruin the whole deal that Trump has now announced as being signed on Friday between the United States and Iran.

Speaker 1 - Host: Guys, I cannot wait to hear what you say. Rich, this is probably in your wheelhouse more than Randy's, so I would love to hear your take.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: Nobody does deals better than Donald J. Trump. The problem is that the people he is used to doing deals with can somewhat be trusted, and that is not the case here. The Iranians have been a problem, specifically for the United States, since they took our people hostage in 1980 and refused to give them back for two years. What makes anyone think these savages can be trusted now? That is my problem with the Iranian deal.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: As far as the Strait of Hormuz goes, yes, we control the whole strait. We have ships in that strait that do not even fit in that strait. You could not turn an aircraft carrier around in that strait if you wanted to. It is under our control, but you have to get the thing open because the bottom line is that the average American citizen, or any American citizen who is worth anything, wants to see gas go down to a dollar and fifty cents a gallon. This six- or seven-dollar-a-gallon thing is ridiculous, and a lot of that can be mitigated by opening up that strait.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: The third thing worth mentioning is perspective with regard to the Israelis. Think of it this way: if you are at the beach lying in the sand, Israel is one grain of sand. Everything else around that beach is trying to knock Israel out of existence, and this has been going on for thousands of years. I am a big advocate of supplying the Israelis with every armament we have, even experimental ones that we want to test, and letting them go to town and clean up the Middle East. If Israel fails to ensure its own safety internally, that opens up all sorts of problems for us here in the United States as well.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: Given the tone of what is going on here in the United States, especially in New York City with this communist, pro-terrorist, anti-police mayor, and with the 25th anniversary of September 11 approaching, nothing good will come from this other than unleashing the Israelis and letting them go to work. I would rather see them killing bad guys over there than have us take care of business over here. That is my quick take on everything you just said.

Speaker 1 - Host: Let me ask you this. If you had to choose between Israel doing its thing and jeopardizing what Trump has, or backing off, where would you come down? I was on the bandwagon that we should have pounded them into the sand and taken out the electricity and power plants. That is what I was hoping for. I do not care about gas prices for a little bit of discomfort, to be honest with you. I am paying at the pump, but I would much rather pay at the pump than worry about a nuclear ballistic missile coming to the continental United States. If that happens, nothing else matters. So if you had to choose, is that a realistic question?

Speaker 2 - Panelist: I think it is a realistic question, but the approach is skewed because you are dealing with a counterparty that simply cannot be trusted. These guys can sign whatever you want, which brings up a new question: who is actually signing this? Who is this guy, and where is he going to be next week? You are going to have ayatollah after ayatollah. It is a waste of time. The only thing these people understand is force.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: Speaking of force, what kind of force are we prepared to keep in that region indefinitely? I get it. The deal looks great on paper. How do you enforce it and keep it in force to ensure the safety of us here in the United States?

Speaker 1 - Host: All right. I got it. Randy Sutton.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: I am a firm believer that the reason Iran wants the Israelis out is so Hezbollah can continue its onslaught and damage to the state of Israel. Otherwise, what difference does it make to Iran? This is in a foreign country. It is Lebanon. Why are they so interested in allowing Hezbollah to be able to do their evil work? It is because they do not care about the United States. This deal will die in weeks, if not sooner. They are never going to uphold their end of the bargain, and we are going to have to bomb the hell out of them again.

Speaker 1 - Host: All right, guys. Commercial time snuck up on us. Stick with us. We will be right back.

Speaker 4 - Prerecorded Sponsor Voice: My family only cares about one thing: that I come home safe. At Galls, every order begins with a promise made with purpose, stitched for support, backed with pride, answered by dedicated hands, delivering the standard you have sworn to uphold. We serve more than the mission. We serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safe.

Speaker 1 - Host: Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. I am joined by Lieutenant Randy Sutton from The Wounded Blue and former Secret Service Special Agent in Charge Rich Deripoli.

Speaker 1 - Host: We have been talking about the announcement Trump made. We have a document being signed on Friday between the United States and Iran. It is funny, because I did not say anything about Israel being in there. It is just a document between the United States and Iran. I did not hear that the United States and Israel were signing a pact with Iran. I just thought about that. I would almost think Israel would have to be addressed in any agreement.

Speaker 1 - Host: I am not confident, like you guys, that this agreement is going to last long. Something is going to happen. If and when it does, I hope we just go in there and put them back, literally, not to the Stone Age, but take the electricity. I do not want any lights on. I do not want music playing. I do not want televisions on. I want no communication. Drop an EMP. Detonate it in the atmosphere above Iran and let nature take its course. Any other words on that?

Speaker 2 - Panelist: It is worth pointing out that it was Ronald Reagan who, when he met with the Iranians upon taking office, told them that if those hostages were not released immediately, he was going to bomb them back into the Stone Age. That has been the policy for the last 50 years. If anybody thinks these animals are worth anything with regard to the paper that treaty is printed on, it is a complete waste of time, and somebody is pulling the wool over your eyes.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: There is zero reason we should afford the Iranians any opportunity to meet with any senior representative from the United States other than a commanding general or the admiral in charge of that strike force over there, because that is the only thing these savages understand: the might of the U.S. military. I am a big proponent and advocate of bombing these animals back into the Stone Age and putting this to rest. This is nonsense.

Speaker 1 - Host: I like the way you think, and I hope most of the American people do too. If you guys are ready, I am going to skip stories, if that is okay, and go to this Florida prosecutor who got indicted. This is at tampafreepress.com. I want to make sure we cover this because Rich is on the show.

Speaker 1 - Host: This Florida prosecutor was indicted after secretly emailing sealed special counsel files to her personal account. This just blows me away, and it gets worse. This former high-ranking Department of Justice official in Florida has been indicted by a federal grand jury after she allegedly changed file names and covertly emailed sealed special counsel documents to her personal account, in violation of a gag order issued by U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon.

Speaker 1 - Host: She changed the file names, which shows so much intent. Federal prosecutors filed a formal notice indicating that Carmen Mercedes Lineberger, the former managing assistant U.S. attorney for the Fort Pierce branch office, which is south of where I am, has been charged with crimes.

Speaker 1 - Host: She allegedly changed the names of sensitive Justice Department records and gave them names like “chocolate cake recipe” before emailing them to her personal accounts, according to the now-unsealed federal indictment. The unsealed court records link her actions directly to the high-profile federal case involving co-defendants Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira.

Speaker 1 - Host: According to the government's filing, Lineberger used her high-level security credentials to alter and conceal the true identity of a digital copy of Volume Two of the special counsel report. Its naming structure was masked. She took steps to smuggle the records entirely outside of the Justice Department by sending electronic messages directly to her personal email accounts.

Speaker 1 - Host: The transmission directly violated a protective injunction handed down by Judge Cannon. That emergency order explicitly blocked the dissemination of the highly sensitive report outside authorized government channels, explicitly naming the agency's leadership and staff. There is no way she did not know that what she was doing was prohibited.

Speaker 1 - Host: It goes on to talk about Attorney General Merrick Garland being involved. Because the leak originated inside the prosecutor's office, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District had to recuse itself. Now John P. Heekin, the United States Attorney for the Northern District of Florida, has been brought in as a special attorney under federal law to handle the prosecution. So there we go. Randy, you are unmuted, so I will let you go first.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: They did not address her motivations, and that has my curiosity piqued. Apparently, this also involved the Trump documents. I got a little confused with the two different articles because one involved the Trump documents and that special counsel who was brought in to prosecute Donald Trump. I am trying to figure out her motivation for stealing the files. What was she going to do with them? Was she going to write a book? Her motivations were never addressed in the article, but she needs to go to prison for a long, long time.

Speaker 1 - Host: All right. Rich Deripoli, any commentary?

Speaker 2 - Panelist: I second exactly what Randy said about sending her to prison. When you are changing the names of files after you know those files cannot leave that courthouse, and you are disguising them to look like chocolate cake recipes before emailing them to your personal account, it is game over.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: The problem is that you do not need to be a professional steganographer or code writer to figure out what is going on here. I can easily drop something into a digital file and find out if it has been forwarded, altered, or renamed. The problem with these people is that they think they are smarter than everyone else. Cops see this every day. You pull somebody over and ask, “Is there anything in the car?” They say, “No, I have nothing in the car,” and you know there is something in the car.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: It is the same thing here. Just because someone is working for a prosecutor's office or a DOJ investigative office does not mean you can trust them. Who knows what the motivations were? It could be money. It could be to bring embarrassment to the president and the administration. It could be any number of things. It is totally irrelevant. She did what she did, and she needs to pay the price. For too long, these people have been getting away with this. Put the bracelets on her and send her to prison.

Speaker 1 - Host: All right. I love it. Anything else, gentlemen? If not, we can move on to a story with a video component, which I know you guys are waiting for. Let us do that. We will cover the LAPD real quick. This is from Rumble.com. This is Butter, our favorite law enforcement video channel. We have LAPD shooting a knife-wielding suspect during a burglary call.

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: Come out with your hands up. Come on. Move. Move. Please come here. Please. Get in here. He has got a knife already. Come over here. Please. Officer. Put the knife down. Get the knife down. [Multiple overlapping commands and unclear yelling.]

Speaker 1 - Host: A couple of these videos are just kind of crazy. Police shoot a knife-wielding suspect during a reported burglary early on Friday morning in South Los Angeles. According to the LAPD, officers from the department's 77th Division, at about 4:55 in the morning, respond to a burglary-in-progress call. When the cops get there, they hear screaming coming from inside the residence. They force their way in. They described it as an urgent situation. But now they are dealing with a dude wearing a diaper. We are going to cover that in a second. I have another commercial break sneaking up on us, guys, so let me cover that, and we will cover the story when we get right back. Stick with us.

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Speaker 1 - Host: Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. We are joined by former Secret Service Special Agent in Charge Rich Deripoli and retired Las Vegas Metro Police Lieutenant Randy Sutton, who is also the founder of thewoundedblue.org.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: You almost said LAPD.

Speaker 1 - Host: I did. It is not LAPD. It is Las Vegas Metro PD. I will get it right. When Randy Sutton starts getting on my case, I get nervous. That is almost like a guarantee that another mistake is coming because now I am nervous with all the attention. You know what it is? We are covering a story from L.A., so that is my excuse.

Speaker 1 - Host: To refresh everybody's memory, we left off with LAPD shooting a knife-wielding suspect during a burglary call. This is when the 77th Division gets a call about a burglary in progress. The officers get there, hear screaming coming from inside, and force entry. There is a man with a diaper on. That is kind of hard. I am sorry. I see Rich shaking his head. He has obviously got a personal experience he does not want to think about involving a man with a diaper.

Speaker 1 - Host: I was thinking this guy was going to be the bad guy. He really is not. It is around the corner. After we get past the dude who is pretty much naked except for the diaper, officers go down the hallway and turn the corner. There are two guys. Our bad guy's name is Frederick Spelds. He is 64 years old. You have two guys, and they both have hold of a knife in a horizontal position. In all honesty, it was kind of hard to tell which one was the bad guy because you have one victim trying to keep the other guy from stabbing him, holding the knife and trying to get away from being stabbed.

Speaker 1 - Host: Then our confirmed bad guy starts making statements that clearly show who he is, when he tells the cops to just shoot him or when he is defiant. We know who the bad guy is. But the hand positions are the same for both guys. In fact, the victim on the other side, who was shirtless, ended up with injuries to his hands from grabbing the blade of the knife.

Speaker 1 - Host: The police deployed a 40-millimeter less-lethal launcher twice. I do not know if you guys saw it, but the bad guy is on the right side. These are big boys, remember. The 40-millimeter hits his belly, bounces off, and hits the other dude across from him, the one holding onto the other side of the knife. It bounces off his belly too, and he was shirtless, so you can see the bounce. I am thinking these are big boys with big bellies. The 40-millimeter did not even affect either one of them.

Speaker 1 - Host: The suspect continues to ignore commands. There comes a point where I thought I heard the victim say, while they were trying to defuse the situation, something along the lines of, “He said he was going to stab me.” The victim starts to let go and back into a room. When he lets go of the knife, the bad guy turns around and goes after him. That is when officers deploy the 40-millimeter less lethal again and shoot him at the same time. It looks like the bad guy survives. They render aid at the scene before he is taken away. The victim suffered an injury to his hand, and the bad guy was taken to the hospital in critical condition.

Speaker 1 - Host: It is a tough situation to deal with, but we have Randy Sutton on the show, and he has dealt with a lot of these. Of course, he is from Las Vegas Metro, so Randy Sutton.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: Let me say this: contact wound to the head. I think they waited way too long to shoot this guy. This guy is literally trying to stab the victim. The victim is trying to save his own life or keep from getting stabbed, and he is getting stabbed. He is holding onto the blade. Game over, man. This guy is armed with a knife. Why use less lethal on this? Shoot him. Done. See you later. Adios.

Speaker 1 - Host: Rich?

Speaker 2 - Panelist: Randy put it perfectly. The problem is that cops nowadays, and this has been going on maybe for the last decade, have a whole assortment of less-than-lethal tools. Somebody needs to tell these guys there are situations you are going to roll into that warrant the use of lethal force. This guy should have been dropped immediately. This is nonsense. You are screwing around with Tasers, 40-millimeter hand cannons, and nets. What are you, Batman? This is not Gotham City. Shoot this guy and move on with your day. It was perfectly warranted, and this guy should have been killed immediately.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: I have nothing else to say about that. We can deal with the guy in the diaper later, but that should tell you there is another problem there. By the way, I do not think this was a burglary call. This call came out as, “This guy is trying to stab me.”

Speaker 1 - Host: The report said it was a burglary in progress, but it could be bad information.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: Rich is right. They probably had to write it up somehow and figured they would write it up as a burglary in progress. There is no way this was called into 911 as a burglary in progress. It was, “This guy is in my house. He is trying to kill me,” that type of thing.

Speaker 1 - Host: I remember them asking if the guy knew him, because the guy talking with 911 kept having to get off the phone. Dispatch was asking questions, and he was saying, “Just send somebody. Send somebody now. Please send somebody.” They are not saying they did, so yes, it was obviously not just that.

Speaker 1 - Host: If you guys are ready, we will go to the next one. It is a doozy, and there is going to be more to talk about before we get to the hot grease story. This next one is from Rumble.com, again from Butter. We have a suspect fatally shot in the woods after he shoots an officer during a traffic stop.

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: What I am going to do is a quick vehicle search. Are there any weapons in here? Drugs? There are no drugs? Okay, that is what I am going to confirm.

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: Probable cause?

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: I do not have probable cause. I have consent.

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: From who?

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: Her. Go ahead and hop out. We are going to be doing a vehicle search. No weapons on you? Nothing like that? Do you mind if I check you for weapons?

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: No, I do not.

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: Okay, go ahead and face the car.

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: I said no.

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: I understand that. Go ahead and take your hand out from behind your back.

Speaker 5 - Video / Body-Camera Audio: [Gunfire and yelling.] Shots fired. Shots fired. Suspect running. [Unclear radio traffic.]

Speaker 1 - Host: The title says he shot at an officer, but I believe that officer was shot, went down, and then did a double-tap response. We are in Green Township, Ohio. A routine traffic stop happened on Monday morning and turned into a high-speed chase, officer-involved shootings, and a manhunt that extended well into the evening and ended with the suspect's death.

Speaker 1 - Host: Our bad guy is Michael W. Decker, 53 years old. He ends up dying as a result of his injuries, but he got those at the very end. The shooting happened in a wooded area along Mine Road in Green Township. We have the Harrison County Sheriff's Department involved, and Sheriff Mark Touville is giving statements about how this went down.

Speaker 1 - Host: The series of events started about 11:35 in the morning, just before noon on Monday. A sheriff's deputy stops a vehicle on U.S. 250 in Franklin Township. Decker, our bad guy, is in the rear passenger seat behind the driver's seat. The article leaves some things out, so I will cover it as it went down.

Speaker 1 - Host: The cop gets the female driver out of the car, and he has her calling somebody. She is standing between the cruiser and her vehicle, partially blocking the dash cam in the cruiser. Our cop is dealing with the bad guy in the back seat. The bad guy is cool Joe, smoking a cigarette. The cop tells him he wants him to come out of the vehicle.

Speaker 1 - Host: The guy is fidgety. The officer asks if there are any weapons. The guy keeps moving his left hand behind his back, and the cop apparently notices that. As soon as the guy gets out of the back seat and stands up, he gets kind of squirrely. The cop goes hands-on. Next thing we know, the guy is making movements toward his waistband and produces a pistol.

Speaker 1 - Host: The cop lets go. I would have liked to see him try to fight over the weapon because they were so close, but he lets go and creates distance. You hear one gunshot go off. The body cam falls off the cop, so we have to assume some of what happened. It appears to me that the bad guy shot the cop once. Looking at another shot later from the dash cam, the bad guy picks up something dropped on the ground, gets into the driver's seat of the car he just got out of, and takes off, leaving the female driver and the injured cop behind.

Speaker 1 - Host: The cop gets on the radio and calls the cavalry. Troopers get involved and find this guy barreling down the road. They use stop sticks. The guy cuts across the median after stop sticks are deployed. There are a couple of attempted stop-stick deployments. The car stops in the oncoming lane.

Speaker 1 - Host: The weirdest thing is that our trooper is in the cockpit of his car, opens the door, and the bad guy starts shooting at him. The trooper shoots back. I counted five shots and then a sixth shot from the trooper. He has a decent-sized pistol. There is no way he reached even half the capacity of the magazine. He does not do a proper magazine swap, but he is still sitting in the car with the door open.

Speaker 1 - Host: At some point, he is fishing around. Apparently, after he inserts the magazine into the gun and racks one into the chamber, I do not think the chamber was empty. Then he is fishing around, trying to find the magazine. He gets out of the car after about 23 seconds. He puts the magazine in, and then you hear him re-rack later. He moves outside the car, but he gets out with a gun that, other than maybe having one in the chamber, had no magazine in it. I was not too impressed.

Speaker 1 - Host: The trooper pops the hatch on his cruiser, which is filled with bags. He grabs one small bag. I do not know what it had in it. He goes to the passenger side and puts it inside the passenger seat of his car. There is a guy coming up from the back who does have a rifle, but with all those bags, you would think they would at least have some kind of long gun in there.

Speaker 1 - Host: The bad guy runs away from his car into the woods. Another trooper pulls up behind him, so he has officers on both sides of him. He cannot keep watching both of them, and that is probably why he runs. Air service is up. We get another shootout. They get the guy, and we have some great video of that. We have 10 seconds, guys. We have to go to a commercial break. We will break this down when we come back. Stick with us.

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Speaker 1 - Host: Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are joined by former Secret Service Special Agent in Charge Rich Deripoli and retired Las Vegas Metro Police Lieutenant Randy Sutton, founder of The Wounded Blue, thewoundedblue.org.

Speaker 1 - Host: We were talking about a suspect fatally shot in the woods after he shoots an officer during a traffic stop. This is in Ohio. We have the state troopers involved. One of the best parts is that they released the canine on this dude. The canine gets a free meal out of this, and it was great.

Speaker 1 - Host: I saw the guy had a gun by him because you can see it in the video from the air service. I know the cops are walking all over the place. Then I saw the picture of the gun, and it was blended in perfectly with the leaves. I was worried about them missing the gun and the guy producing it and shooting the cops or the dog. It all worked out. What a video to cover. Randy?

Speaker 3 - Panelist: This took hours. They searched the woods. Thank goodness for the air unit. If it had not been for the air unit, they would never have found this guy, because they used FLIR, the forward-looking infrared, to find him.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: There is a lot to unpack on this one. This bad guy is a serious bad guy. You can tell at the very beginning that this guy is a hinky dude. The way he is answering the questions made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Here is the thing: the officer has to go through the motions. He has his gun hand, and he has a pen in it because he is writing information down. The whole time, I am thinking, “Oh my God, he will never be able to draw his gun fast enough if this guy draws on him.”

Speaker 3 - Panelist: We do not even know the condition of the officer. I noticed that it was never said. But there were a lot of signs that this was going to go south. This is where waiting for backup can be absolutely critical. But here is the other part of that equation: we have no idea where his backup is. Is this a 26-deputy sheriff's department where backup is going to be 30 minutes away? You have to weigh all the considerations while making this very critical stop.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: There were a lot of signs that this was going to go south. You are right about the other officer with the magazine. I could not figure out what he was doing with that magazine. At the end of the day, the bad guy is dead. Happy ending.

Speaker 1 - Host: Rich, you are up.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: Anytime a bad guy ends up dead, I am perfectly happy with that. That is one less thug we have to deal with. I love the fact that the dog got a piece of him too. That is the greatest asset you could ever use, in addition to the FLIR from the air assets.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: One thing I want to point out, because I know a lot of cops listen to this, is do not get caught up in the fact that the media always represents this as a routine car stop. There is nothing routine about a car stop. The routine is that it is what you do during the course of your day, whether you do one car stop or 25 of them. That is the routine part. But every one of these is unique and equally dangerous, and each one needs to be treated that way.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: Randy put it perfectly. When you are making the decision to pull a car over, you have to weigh what else is going on. Where is my backup? How long will it take them to get there? Is this the proper place to pull this guy over? You do not know what is inside that vehicle. The only difference between a vehicle and going into a guy's house is that the vehicle is on wheels. Short of that, the level of danger is the same as taking a door down and hitting an apartment in the South Bronx or Ybor City. You just do not know what you have there.

Speaker 2 - Panelist: Even though you may think it is routine, it is not routine in terms of the level of danger and what may happen to you. How often do you make a car stop where there is a driver who basically says, “I do not really know who that guy is,” and he is in the back seat? That is a red flag right there.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: Agreed.

Speaker 1 - Host: I would have liked to have seen more. This trooper needs training. I would take him off the street if he worked for me. I am not saying I would get rid of him, but I would not let him stay out there until he receives training. I am going to be a little critical here, only to help this guy and other guys watching who might not pick up on it.

Speaker 1 - Host: He knew the history of this guy. He knew the guy had already shot a cop. The vehicle was already stopped in the oncoming lane when he pulled up. He needed to position his car. If he did not like the position of his car, that is on him, because he could have angled it a little bit more. Then he is sitting in a coffin. I cannot believe he did not get out of his car while engaging the bad guy. He is sitting in the car with limited cover.

Speaker 1 - Host: Then there is the whole issue with the magazine and operating under stress. He gets out of the car without a magazine, and he has it in his hand but has not put it in yet. He is not doing a tactical reload. There were so many mistakes. He went about 23 seconds without the magazine. The bad guy could have charged him, and it would have been over. He had no way to protect himself.

Speaker 1 - Host: That is serious. That is a training deficiency. I am not sure if it is on the agency side, the trooper side, or both, but they need to look at that before it happens again, in my opinion. Any other commentary, guys?

Speaker 2 - Panelist: I think you are right about that, Chip, but I am betting that if you start talking to his fellow troopers, you will find out this guy was not their finest trooper. His reputation probably preceded itself. People are so quick to blame the training. Yes, the training may be at fault here, but doing your job properly is incumbent upon you. To do some of the things that went on here, I have to ask where this guy's head was. He did not just wake up that morning and suddenly get to that point. This is something that has probably been festering since he first started.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: Let us talk about training for a minute. I think it is important. We are now training our cops not to be warriors. We are training our cops to be very reactive. We are training cops to use less lethal even when firearms are involved. I have been watching this trend take place, and it makes me insane to see police officers deploying Tasers against firearms or less-lethal shotguns against firearms.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: The reality is this: this is a dangerous job. There are people out there who want to kill you, and we need to train our police officers for the warrior mindset. We have been straying away from that for years now, and it is getting our cops hurt. It is getting our cops killed.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: I am actually headed down to Mississippi on Thursday for a horrible situation involving a deputy who was shot during a car stop. He has been told that he is never going to walk again. This is tragic, absolutely tragic. He got hit with an AK-47 round, and he is facing life-changing injuries. I have to tell you, we are hoping we will be able to offer him some incredible medical help that he would not be able to get in rural Mississippi. That is why I am going to Mississippi.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: This came from another car stop with two bad guys. Now he is facing a life that is uncertain. We have to train our cops to be warriors. By the way, this guy is a true warrior. He is fighting right now. He is fighting for his life. He is fighting to recover. We at The Wounded Blue are literally flying down to his bedside on Thursday.

Speaker 1 - Host: Wow. Thanks for sharing that with us. Do you know what agency off the top of your head?

Speaker 3 - Panelist: It is a small sheriff's agency. I think they have 22 or 23 deputies in rural Mississippi.

Speaker 1 - Host: Okay. All right. Guys, I appreciate you thinking about him. We are winding it down, gentlemen. It has been a great show. These two videos were not easy, especially this last one. Thanks, guys, for breaking it down and adding some excellent professional commentary. Thanks so much to former Secret Service Special Agent in Charge Rich Deripoli and retired Las Vegas Metro Police Lieutenant Randy Sutton, founder of The Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: Not former. Retired.

Speaker 1 - Host: Retired. Okay. Thank you. Boy, he is hard today. Since I am in a good mood, let us talk about the summit. Thirty seconds, Randy Sutton.

Speaker 3 - Panelist: Our sixth annual National Law Enforcement Survival Summit. Every police officer in the country should attend this. It is life-changing. It is life-saving. Also, if you want to support our organization, donate $9.11 a month. That is what we are asking, because when people need help, they call 911. But when the police need help, they call The Wounded Blue.

Speaker 1 - Host: I love it. Excellent. Do that. We are going to talk a little bit more about The Wounded Blue in just one second. Guys, a shout-out to galls.com. Do not forget discount code RADIO15. CompliantTechnologies.com, GunLearn.com, MyMedicare.live, and Tobells.com. We will see you guys back tomorrow at 12 noon Eastern.