Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host
Identified by his opening introduction, where he states that his name is Chip DeBlock and that he is the host of Leo Roundtable.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest / Law Enforcement Commentator
Identified by the host’s introduction of Chief Ralph from California, including references to Huntington Beach, his former work with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, and his later experience as a police chief. The exact spelling of his surname should be verified.

Speaker 3 - Galls Commercial Voice / Prerecorded Sponsor Segment
Identified by the polished commercial language promoting Galls and first-responder equipment.

Speaker 4 - Compliant Technologies Commercial Voice / Prerecorded Sponsor Segment
Identified by the polished sponsor message describing Compliant Technologies, CD3 technology, and the G.L.O.V. product.

Speaker 5 - GunLearn Commercial Voice / Prerecorded Sponsor Segment
Identified by the polished sponsor message describing GunLearn firearm training and certification.

Speaker 6 - Police Officer / Deputy / Trooper in Video Footage
Identified by quoted commands from law enforcement video footage. Individual officer names are not always identified in the transcript.

Speaker 7 - Dispatcher / Caller / Civilian Voice in Video Footage
Identified by quoted emergency-call or video-footage dialogue. Individual identities are only used where the host identifies them from the story.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host for a group of law enforcement professionals who talk about today’s news and issues from a law enforcement perspective.

And you recognize him. We have Chief Ralph Ornelas all the way from California. Is that Huntington Beach? Did I get that right?

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
Yes, Huntington Beach, California. Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I got it. I nailed it. Surf City. Do not let the accent throw you off. If anybody has a hard time understanding him, I will interpret for you. But I know Huntington Beach. You guys talk like me. I love it. Now, if you were in Alabama or Tennessee, we would be having a different conversation. Thanks for being on the show, Chief.

A shout-out to our sponsors, guys. Please support them. They go to great lengths to bring this good quality content to you. Our title sponsor is Galls at galls.com. Do not forget they have a 15% discount code. Write it down unless you can memorize it. It is RADIO15. The next time you go to galls.com, type in RADIO15 in order to get 15% off your next purchase. It works on most items, and that is our gift to you, thanks to Galls.

We also have CompliantTechnologies.com, GunLearn.com, MyMedicare.live, and 2Belles.com. We have a new online store at leoroundtable.com, where you can find show gear and related items.

Now, we have some stories to cover. We have a murder indictment dismissed against an ex-LAPD cop in a 2015 killing of an unarmed homeless man. Yes, that happened back in 2015, about 11 years ago, guys. There is a story there. This cop has not been on the porch long. Why was he not indicted back when that happened? We are going to cover all that, and hopefully Chief Ralph has some inside scoop.

We have Orange County deputies shooting a stalking suspect who was armed with a gun. We have a homicide suspect firing shots at a Missouri State Trooper. Oh my gosh, there is a PIT maneuver by a Missouri State Trooper. God bless him, because the sheriff’s deputies and city cops are chasing this dude, and they are all waiting for the trooper to show up and save the day with a PIT maneuver.

Chief Ralph, I have never seen a bad guy, after the PIT has been initiated and he is rolling backward, side by side with the guy who just pitted him, blowing holes through the window and shooting the trooper or the trooper’s car. It is just a crazy scene. We are going to talk about that.

We have a Florida prosecutor. We talked about her recently. She is officially indicted, and we have a little more information about that. She is the one accused of stealing confidential records and emailing them to herself after changing the names of the files to make them look like recipes.

We have Baltimore PD releasing body-camera and CitiWatch footage from the shooting of a 35-year-old named Tavon Newton. We have Little Metro. We have a naked dude who ends up getting shot by cops while unarmed, and the cop ends up resigning. We covered that, and this is an update.

We have a robbery suspect fatally shot by an Albuquerque police officer when he raises a gun during an attempted carjacking. Then we have an Indiana sheriff charged with stealing campaign signs in Jennings County. We just cannot make this stuff up, Chief.

People may not know that Chief Ralph Ornelas was formerly with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department. He has decades with them before becoming a police chief also in California, so he has worn both hats. It is a pretty unique position and gives him unique input because he has worn both hats. Most people have not. I was a city cop for 30 years, so that is my expertise.

If you are ready, Chief, let’s go ahead and get started.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
Let’s go.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I am excited about this. It has taken way too long. I think people need to be held accountable for taking so long. This is from Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com. The House is passing the border security package as the Florida GOP backs the final vote.

The U.S. House of Representatives passed the Secure America Act. This happened on Tuesday, securing multi-year funding for federal immigration and border enforcement, basically Border Patrol and ICE. This is what we have been waiting for. It has taken months and months.

It has negatively affected our airport guys. It has negatively affected a lot of guys. The people who have not supported this measure have wanted to defund ICE and Border Patrol. Even though some people argue that they are already funded through the end of Trump’s term, not everything is totally funded. When you are talking about airport services and some other ones, like TSA, they have been negatively impacted, which has been absolutely horrible.

There is no excuse for that. They are saying it is because people like Renee Good were murdered in Minneapolis, which is just a joke, because that was a bona fide good shoot by someone trying to seriously injure or kill a cop. That girl was killed because of her own actions. That was a justified shoot.

I hate it when people make accusations like that, especially on Fox News when you have Shannon Bream on there and she does not correct people. She lets them run their mouths. People who watch and hear that for the first time think, “I must have heard something,” when it never even happened.

I am glad this finally passed, but there needs to be accountability for why it took so long. The bill advanced in the House primarily along party lines, with Republicans voting in favor of the enforcement package and Democrats voting against it. Now it is headed to the White House for Trump’s signature. I have to believe at this point that it will go through with Trump’s signature.

Chief Ralph?

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
I am really happy to hear that it passed. We need it. It is unfortunate, as you said, Chip, that it had to be partisan, with only the Republicans and with the Democrats not seeing clearly what really needs to take place in this country to protect this country, not only presently, but in the future.

It really baffles me to see things around the country, including some of the violence by illegal criminals and what they have committed. I cannot understand it. I really do not know what is going on with them, but they have stuck their heels in this direction, Chip, and audience.

I am really proud of the Republican Party for standing tall and being committed to this, and for giving the men and women of ICE and CBP support. It also helps TSA people continue doing their jobs. I have to tell you, Chip, I am really proud of Congress for doing that. I know President Trump is probably very happy to sign that.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Thanks, Chief. I am just frustrated that it took so long to pass. I wish the Democrats were different, and look, if it were the Republicans, I would be calling them out, too. In fact, there have been a number of Republicans. Let’s face it, if it were always along party lines and that was the way everybody was voting, this would have passed a long time ago, because we have the majority in both houses. But that is not the way it went down.

You have Fetterman crossing the aisle from the Democratic side to us, but we have had sometimes five or six Republicans who have blocked this. I mainly fault those guys, and Rand Paul and some guys are really surprising.

There has to be accountability. I kind of wish the other side would say, “Yes, look, we screwed up. We backed up Biden when we should not have. We have a national crisis when it comes to immigration, and we have to clean it up.” If they did that, we as Republicans would probably have a hard time keeping the base we are enjoying now, because the left and the Democrats are just so far out there.

Let’s face it, Trump, just like Obama did for two terms, got the popular vote. The majority of the country wants him in office, and they are tickled pink with everything he is doing, including Iran. I know you are going to see polls that say people do not like high gas prices and stuff, but believe me, they will take that any day over a nuclear ballistic missile coming across the continent or across the United States from Iran.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
You mentioned a lot of things that left me sitting there, Chip. To be honest with you, look back at when Obama was president. There were 25 incidents between ICE and the public, and the media did not care at that time. But something important a lot of people forget is that he deported 3 million people.

The interesting issue about this is that it saddens me that the public and the politicians want more enforcement, but they also want it to be forthright, ethical, and honest. You said it well, Chip. I do not stand for Republicans or Democrats not being ethical and honest in the manner they carry themselves on both sides of the aisle.

It really baffles me that certain Republican members of Congress and the Senate did not even stand for the Save America Act. In fact, I even called John Thune’s office before the vote and left a message. Certain people are just not seeing clearly for the future, Chip, about how to really protect this country, just like we protected communities.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I know. With the exception of Portland, there are a lot of educated people out there who really know what is going on in today’s world. I hate to say this, but a lot of this really boils down to where you get your news from. It is true. I can have a conversation with someone, and I can almost assure you that I will be able to tell where they are getting their news from, depending on what their belief system is. It is the craziest thing.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
Chip, you make a great point again. I try to read other periodicals and news outlets to get an overview.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Hold that thought. Our first commercial break is coming up, guys. We will be right back.

Speaker 3 - Galls Commercial Voice / Prerecorded Sponsor Segment:
My family only cares about one thing: that I come home safe.

At Galls, every order begins with a promise made with purpose, stitched for support, backed with pride, answered by dedicated hands, delivering the standard you have sworn to uphold.

We serve more than the mission. We serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safe.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are joined by Chief Ralph Ornelas, all the way from California.

We have been having some good conversations during the commercial breaks. We have been talking about finally getting the funding for Border Patrol and ICE. It happened in the Senate. It happened in the House. Now it goes to the president for his signature. I am sure he is going to be very happy. I know ICE and Border Patrol certainly are.

The citizens should be the main people who are happy, because this effort to really secure the country and protect our safety is going to continue without a funding crisis, or without a crisis at the airport involving TSA or something like that.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
Chip, we mentioned before the break that the media controls a lot. I see it. I talk to people. I was just in Chicago talking to some people and police officers. The media has made ICE an enemy.

The media has such influence, all the different channels and outlets. I am not even going to name them, but they have such influence over people’s thought processes. People should take a broader spectrum, read different periodicals, look at different channels, and make their own decisions. Be individual people and really make their own decisions.

I do not agree with everything about Trump, but I agree with the majority of what he does, especially protecting this country, which means a lot to me and to the future of this country.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Thanks. I totally agree. Thank you to the people who are weighing in. We have Aaron and Betty Dunn. We have MBS on Rumble, and we have Chile and a whole crew of people over there. Thanks, guys, for watching the show. We appreciate it.

Let’s move on to our next topic, Chief. We have an update story. This is LAPD, so this is close to where the chief is at. From the Los Angeles Times, a murder indictment was dismissed against an ex-LAPD cop. This happened in a 2015 killing of an unarmed homeless man. Let’s cover this real quick.

A Los Angeles County Superior Court judge dismissed a murder indictment on Friday against a former LAPD officer in the 2015 killing of an unarmed homeless man. Judge Ronald Cohen granted a defense motion to dismiss, saying prosecutors failed to meet the standard for a murder charge and failed to present exculpatory evidence to the 2024 grand jury that indicted ex-LAPD officer Clifford Proctor, who shot and killed a guy named Brendon Glenn during an attempted arrest on Venice Beach back in 2015.

There are some flags here. The shooting and killing happened in 2015. This guy was just indicted in 2024, nine years later. There is a reason why, but he was indicted by a grand jury. He is also an ex-LAPD officer. When you see that, and it has been nine years, did he retire? Did he get fired? Did he quit? All kinds of questions pop up.

Judge Cohen said it could not be said in any shape or form that the defendant, the cop, had any malice, which would be a necessary element of any murder charge. That is another flag. They went with murder on this, but there is a reason why.

Officer Proctor, who is 61 years old now, was on patrol with his partner, Officer Jonathan Kawahara. They responded to calls about Glenn and his dog causing a disturbance in Venice Beach back in May of 2015. I have been to Venice Beach. What a place.

Glenn had just been thrown out of a bar and got into an argument with Officer Proctor over the behavior of his dog. Officer Proctor threatened to shoot the animal. Glenn responded by hurling racial slurs at the officer. Both men are Black, the officer and this bad guy with the dog.

Glenn walked toward another bar, where he got into an argument with a bouncer who denied him entry. When officers moved in to arrest him, a struggle ensued, and Officer Proctor ended up shooting the 29-year-old twice in the back and killing him.

Through his attorneys, Officer Proctor always said that he thought Glenn was going for his partner’s gun. They say the video evidence from the scene does not show Glenn reaching for the pistol, and Officer Kawahara, the partner whose gun he was supposedly going for, told investigators that he did not think Glenn was going for his gun at the time of the shooting.

But Judge Cohen, the one who dismissed everything, said on Friday that he watched the video multiple times and that it was reasonable for Officer Proctor to think that Glenn was going for his partner’s gun.

Let me point out here, guys, that we are talking about 2015. I retired in 2013. Body cameras were just rolling out. I have not seen the video on this, but I am telling you that back then, mostly we had dash cams. I do not know if this was one of the few body cameras that was out, what the quality was, or whether it was freelance video or something else. That is a flag for me. If it were today, I would think, okay, we have great video. Back then, not necessarily.

The case explains why it took so long. It happened in 2015, and he was not indicted until 2024. Former District Attorney Jackie Lacey did not want to file charges, even after Police Chief Charlie Beck publicly called on her to file manslaughter charges. The district attorney said, no, she was not interested. Remember that back then, the push was for manslaughter charges. They did not file murder charges, so there is a difference.

Then District Attorney George Gascon comes in. He campaigned on prosecuting cops. He gets a special prosecutor, Lawrence Middleton, to re-examine a bunch of cases, including this one. What happens? Before Gascon gets out of office, there is a murder indictment in late 2024. There is a reason why that happened. The statute of limitations for the manslaughter charge had expired, but of course it had not expired for the murder charge. It reads like a horror film.

Then Proctor gets indicted. They have a warrant for him, and he does not even know it. He is going on an international flight in October to leave the country, and he gets grabbed by U.S. Customs and Border Protection. That is how he finds out he is a wanted man. There are just so many bad things about this.

The commercial break is coming up, so we will cover this when we get back. There are so many flags, which I have already explained to you guys. Hopefully, you are getting better at picking up on the flags. I know the chief is all over this. When we come back, we will hear from Chief Ornelas. We will be right back.

Speaker 4 - Compliant Technologies Commercial Voice / Prerecorded Sponsor Segment:
It is time to talk about Compliant Technologies at complianttechnologies.com. They are committed to providing non-lethal solutions to help officers gain the upper hand safely and rapidly in a humane, low-liability manner, utilizing what they call their CD3, which stands for conductive distraction and de-escalation device technology.

Their flagship product, which we all know by now, is called the G.L.O.V. It has not only helped officers tens of thousands of times, but they have actually had over 250,000 deployments. Guess what? They have had zero deaths and zero injuries.

They have actually achieved non-lethal status in an arena that predominantly can only offer less-lethal results. When it comes to weapon retention and transitioning to a sidearm or a conductive energy weapon, the G.L.O.V. from complianttechnologies.com virtually eliminates weapons confusion.

Stay ahead of the game with Compliant Technologies and the revolutionary CD3 that hundreds of agencies have already turned to nationwide. Friends, take it from me: when it comes to safety, this is one of the most common-sense, hands-on solutions to ever come along. Go to complianttechnologies.com today. Tell them Chip sent you. That is complianttechnologies.com.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are joined by former police chief Ralph Ornelas, also formerly with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.

We have been talking about a fascinating story. I have to tell you, this arguably could have been a main topic because it is so deep. There are really so many things and flags going on.

The case came from the Los Angeles Times. A murder indictment was dismissed against an ex-LAPD cop in a killing of an unarmed homeless man that happened back in 2015. This guy was not indicted until 2024, I think at the end of Gascon’s term as district attorney. There was a district attorney before Gascon who refused to do what the LAPD chief wanted her to do and indict the same cop for manslaughter. Then the statute of limitations expired for manslaughter, and they went with a murder charge. It is some of the craziest unethical stuff I have ever heard.

Now Chief Ralph is going to explain all of this to us. Chief, the floor is yours.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
We have to go back to Jackie Lacey, who was the district attorney at the time when this incident took place. As I stated before we went on commercial break, Jackie was a wonderful district attorney in Los Angeles County. She did not prosecute this case. I believe, if my memory is correct, she did not believe it had the malice. It did not fit that this officer purposely killed this guy, this suspect Glenn.

Then there was an election. Audience, that election was Gascon against Jackie Lacey. Gascon was all in on his platform in the election. He was going to prosecute officers in cases he and his staff believed were deserving. He brought people in who were former defense attorneys into his chain of command.

They saw certain cases, especially when Jackie did not prosecute this case on Proctor. They saw that as one case they wanted to go after. That is why, as Chip eloquently said, they went to the grand jury. In 2024, they prosecuted. This was right before Gascon was in the election, and he got voted out by Hochman.

Gascon is the one who forced that case because of his commitment to the community that he would prosecute police officers in cases that he and his staff believed were deserving of prosecution. With a murder charge, there is no statute of limitations. There is no time limit on that.

What gets me is that Charlie Beck was the chief at the time. I like Charlie. I know Charlie really well. I think he mentioned at the time, as you said, Chip, that he wanted a manslaughter charge. I think Charlie was trying to lower the tension in the community and said, “Hey, I think it could be a manslaughter charge.” Jackie did not believe that.

We have a lot going on. It is almost like the movie L.A. Confidential in this case. There is so much politics and mystery along the line. You have different viewpoints of prosecutors. You have Jackie saying no. You have an election, which was a very ugly election, with Gascon against Jackie Lacey. Then Gascon comes in after making a political platform of prosecuting police officers.

Now Hochman, the great attorney, I am surprised that he says he wants to appeal this case. There is another dynamic again. Is he really going to appeal this?

I have to commend the judge. For a judge to say he looked at things multiple times, and audience, I did this as a commander in a sheriff’s department, in executive force review, and I did it as a chief. We owe it to the officers, deputies, the community, and the city or county we represent.

For the judge to say what he said, and here is a man who has been on the bench for a while, I have to commend him for stating that he looked at that video multiple times. I remember that video, and I had a lot of questions at the time.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Chief, let me ask you something. How was the video quality back then? If you remember, I do not know. Do you know if LAPD had started rolling body cameras out to all the officers yet? I doubt they had rolled it out to all officers because they have so many officers there, and it was expensive. Also, did this officer leave on his own accord? I know he is no longer with the agency, but if the chief was looking for him to be charged with manslaughter, I have to assume he was probably fired or let go.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
I do not remember that part. I bet he did receive an 1801 letter, which basically releases you. But I want to get back to your question about body-worn cameras.

Yes, they did have body-worn cameras, and Charlie Beck and the City of Los Angeles did have everybody get body-worn cameras because of a lot of situations and incidents that took place. We had body-worn cameras right after that when I became a chief, and it was high quality, Axon. I know the quality was not at the level it is today, but it was good.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Because right when I left in 2013, cops were just starting to roll them out. No one wanted to wear them, but over the next couple of years, people said, “Oh, wow, it is not such a bad thing after all,” because we were getting justified in all these accusations.

The downside is that when you show up for court and the judge used to take your testimony over the bad guy’s because you were a cop, now, if you do not have video, they ask, “Where is the video? How do I know you are telling me the truth?” It kind of took that away from the cops.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
I believe the quality was good at the time, because I was researching Axon then, too. In fact, I was researching it for the Sheriff’s Department in custody, to bring Axon inside custody, because we had a lot of assaults on deputies inside custody, too.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
All right. You did a very good job explaining that. It is just a fascinating story. A lot of people who hear this are not going to piece some things together, which of course you and I pick up on. When we look at the dates, we are like, wait a minute. There are 10 or 11 years here. What are the reasons for that? There are reasons for everything. They wanted a manslaughter charge, but the guy was charged with homicide. You did a very good job explaining all that.

If I could just say one more thing about Gascon, this guy worked for my uncle on LAPD. He was a commander and left LAPD. I do not know what happened to him, but the thing about it is, he wanted to prosecute police officers.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
Yes.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
There is just nothing good to say about him. Then again, the voters did not either, because he got booted out.

Let’s cover a story with a video component. I definitely want to talk about the stalking suspect who was armed with a gun. Let’s start off with the first one in Orange County, California, because you are in California.

We have Rumble.com, our favorite law enforcement video channel called This Is Butter. Orange County deputies shoot a stalking suspect who is armed with a gun.

This guy is in his 20s and is expected to survive after charging Orange County Sheriff’s deputies with a firearm earlier this year. He ended up getting shot.

Speaker 6 - Police Officer / Deputy in Video Footage:
Put your hands out.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
We have this newly released video of the April 24 incident. It shows our suspect. They have not identified him yet. He is in the Rancho Mission Viejo area. It is 2:30 in the morning, so that is the first flag. There are not a lot of people doing good things at 2:30 in the morning.

He is armed with a gun. There is a 911 call, and when the emergency dispatcher asks why the guy might be approaching the residence with a gun, the caller does not hesitate. He says, “Because he is obsessed with my girlfriend.”

You can see on the doorbell camera that this guy walks up with a pistol in his right hand. The boyfriend does not look at the doorbell video first. He just opens the door and sees the dude there. The guy is reaching in his waistband, seemingly to get the gun, and the boyfriend pushes the dude back, closes the door, and locks it. That is what he tells 911.

At 3:45 in the morning, an hour and 15 minutes later, deputies spot the car because the guy has taken off. He is in the Rim Gate Park and Lake Forest area. The suspect initially refuses to stop. Then there is a short pursuit. He stops the car, gets out, and rushes them with a gun in his hand.

There are two deputy cars behind him when the traffic stop goes down. The closest deputy has a really hard time. By the time he gets out of his car, this dude has the drop on him. Guys, you have to get that seat belt off. You have to be ready to jump out of your car. When the bad guy stops his car and bails, you have to be ready for that.

This cop is lucky, because I am convinced the bad guy did not want to shoot and kill him, at least not at that time. Deputies open fire. They hit the bad guy multiple times. The suspect is ultimately rushed to the hospital in critical condition. A large knife and a handgun were recovered at the scene.

I am sorry, Chief. The commercial is coming up this way. We have to go to commercial break. We will be right back. Stick with us.

Speaker 5 - GunLearn Commercial Voice / Prerecorded Sponsor Segment:
It is time to talk about GunLearn at gunlearn.com. There is some new stuff going on with GunLearn. If you have not heard it, or if you are not aware of it, pay attention. The details are interesting.

GunLearn.com is the first and only company that offers a step-by-step program that takes you from your present knowledge level to becoming a safe, accurate, competent, certified firearm specialist. If you have the certification, even if you got it five years ago, here is the deal: now it is worth college credits.

Why? Because GunLearn.com has partnered with SmarterDegree and its university partners to give that certification college credit. It is an amazing opportunity.

They have been doing this since 1996. They have been teaching everything that LEOs, meaning law enforcement officers, need to know about firearms and ammunition to all factions of law enforcement. You can start today with online training, or you can sign up to attend a live seminar. If you have your own agency, you can actually host a seminar at no cost. Go to gunlearn.com and connect with Dan O’Kelly to get more information. That is gunlearn.com.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are joined by Chief Ralph Ornelas from California.

The funny thing is that we just left off talking about Orange County in California before we did our last commercial break. We have Orange County deputies shooting a stalking suspect who is armed with a gun.

Just to bring you guys up to speed, the 911 call involves this stalker, armed with a gun, who goes up to a residence where this girl he is reportedly infatuated with is home with her boyfriend. The Ring doorbell shows this guy walking up with a pistol in his hand. He goes to the door. The boyfriend does not look at the video on the door camera. He opens the door. By this time, I guess the guy had holstered the gun, so the guy goes to grab something out of his waistband. The boyfriend pushes him back, closes the door, locks it, then sees on the doorbell camera that the guy had a gun when he walked up.

He calls 911. The cops show up, but the guy has already left. They find his vehicle about an hour and 15 minutes later, and there is a short pursuit. When two cars pull him over, he immediately bails out of the car. He runs up, and it looked, Chief, like he was concentrated on the first deputy. He has the gun in his hand, and then they take care of business.

I just wanted to set the stage where we left off. Chief is going to explain everything to you guys. The floor is yours.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
First of all, I thought the dispatcher getting information was kind of fragmented. If you listen to the audio, initially they said in the write-up they did not know who this person was. Then it is interesting that the girlfriend knew who he was and said the name.

Getting to the pursuit, I agree with you 100%. I have done it. You did it. All officers do it. When you are in a pursuit and you think you are going to come to a stop, you get that seat belt off, number one. He stopped pretty abruptly, and I might have stopped a little farther back to give myself some distance.

Number two, I would have been out of that car with my gun out. You would be between the door and the doorjamb. Those things have to be natural all the time. You have to practice that stuff all the time.

That would be my corrective action plan for this deputy sheriff. He needs to look at that again. I hope to God the sergeants, training sergeants, and FTOs get together and talk about this, because once again, this is a training moment and a leadership learning moment for deputy sheriffs.

He is blessed that the suspect probably, as you said, Chip, did not have in his mind that he wanted to shoot. We do not know. But the deputy beat him to the punch and shoots him. He is going back, and the female deputy in the car behind the lead patrol car shoots. Then her partner came around the front passenger side and shot also.

You mentioned another great point, Chip: the backdrop. I hope to God the shooting team checks on the house right behind that, with the Ring camera, because that is part of the investigation. I have to give that deputy credit. I have to give his partners credit. That young man, the suspect, put himself in that position. It is sad, but I have to circle back. That lead deputy needs to train himself. He has to get out of the seat as quickly as he can.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
For people who hear stories like this and question the second deputy car that rolled up, let me just say that they were behind and still rolling. Both cop cars did not stop at the same time. I am surprised they arrived in time to get involved in the shootout. That is not to say they were too far back, but the lead car is always going to be the most vulnerable. They are going to stop first. You need to exit. Get out. I cannot say it enough. I know the chief is with me. Get out of the freaking car. Get out of that coffin, because that can end up being your coffin.

I am not saying do not at least stand up and use it for cover if you have to, but do not sit in the car. You are at a huge disadvantage.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
The other thing is, you mentioned the other deputies shooting. A lot of times, it is contagious fire, too.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
That is true.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
After they did shoot him, I have to tell you something. Compared to a New York City shooting we covered a couple of months ago, I wrote in my notes that I was so impressed with how calm the deputies were. I do not know if you noticed that.

I was also impressed with the female deputy, and I was impressed with whoever was yelling, “Crossfire, crossfire.” As much as I have to critique the driver a little bit about sitting in the car, other than that, the crossfire call, the calmness going up to the suspect, and the female deputy taking control, maybe she was an FTO, were impressive. I guarantee you that driver will never sit in that car again.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Absolutely. We have to roll. I have three minutes, and I have one more story. A homicide suspect fired shots at a Missouri State Trooper during, not after, but during a PIT maneuver.

Speaker 6 - Police Officer / Trooper in Video Footage:
Shots fired. Shots fired. Shots fired.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
We have body-camera and dash-camera footage. The Boone County Sheriff’s Office said deputies responded just after 1:15 in the afternoon on May 7 in Columbia, Missouri, for a woman who claimed that both she and her son had been shot. In short, cops get there. The 65-year-old woman was severely injured, and her 35-year-old son had been shot and killed. He was pronounced dead.

They got a description of the suspect, later identified as Steven Swanson. He left the scene in his car. A Boone County deputy spots this guy traveling westbound. You have the Columbia Police Department and the Boone County Sheriff’s deputies chasing this dude, and they are waiting. It seemed obvious to me. I do not know if these guys do not have PIT training or whether they do not have the vehicles, because they can be taken out of service after you do a PIT because of damage.

They want the trooper to take care of business. Here comes the trooper dash cam. He is passing all the deputies and police, and they are letting him because they want him to take the lead and take care of this guy. Boy, does he.

The trooper’s name is Corporal Harris, Corporal Brandon Harris. He gets up there and does what they call a tactical vehicle intervention technique. He PITs this guy. But after the PIT, when the vehicle is going backward and our trooper is going forward in the opposite direction, this dude starts firing rounds out of his passenger window. The rounds go through the passenger window of the trooper, who verbalizes on the radio, “He is freaking shooting.”

You cannot tell at first, but this dude put three bullet holes on the side of the car, and the one that went through the passenger window of the trooper’s car went out his driver’s window and just missed his head.

They PIT the guy, and he ends up in the median. The trooper gets out, and he has a pistol. I want to see long guns when we engage these bad guys. Troopers, deputies, cops, get your long guns out, or get long guns. The trooper walks around with his pistol. I see three bullet holes on the side of his car, a fourth one through the passenger window, and later we see the bullet hole through the glass in his driver’s window.

Wow. They found the bad guy with a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Chief Ralph, one minute.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
Number one, I think that trooper, Corporal Brandon Harris, did a phenomenal job in how he handled himself. I want to tell you, though, and I am sad to say it, I am glad the guy killed himself. He deserved what came to him.

My question is, why did Corporal Harris have to conduct a PIT? Why can’t other agencies conduct a PIT?

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
It may be that they do not know how small they are. Maybe they cannot spare the car if they damage it doing a PIT, because then it is out of service and they do not have a car for their deputy or cop to drive. Maybe they do not have an academy where they are doing PIT training. I do not know. But I am sure the trooper was not complaining about getting the PIT.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
I do not think he was. I just questioned it because, as you said, there were two other agencies involved, and nobody else could do it.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
There were three agencies involved, but they were all waiting for the state patrol to do it.

Speaker 2 - Chief Ralph Ornelas, Guest:
I commend Corporal Harris for what he did and how he conducted himself, even after he got shot at.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I agree. I have never seen anything like this before. I doubt that I ever will again. During the PIT, the bad guy is shooting at the guy pitting him. After it, this bad guy should have been freaking out, but he is pulling the trigger.

Chief Ralph, thank you so much for being on the show. Great content, great coverage, and way to dummy it down for the rest of us. Thank you.

Guys, please support our sponsors. They go to great lengths to bring this good quality content to you. I also want to mention The Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org. We have Galls.com. Do not forget the discount code for 15% off, RADIO15. We have CompliantTechnologies.com, GunLearn.com, MyMedicare.live, and 2Belles.com.

We will see you guys back tomorrow live at 12 noon Eastern.