Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host
Identified by his opening introduction, where he states that his name is Chip DeBlock and that he is the host of Leo Roundtable.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest / Law Enforcement and Military Commentator
Identified by the host’s introduction of Scott as a former Green Beret and Delta Force operative. The exact spelling of Scott’s surname should be verified.

Speaker 3 - Galls Commercial Voice / Prerecorded Sponsor Segment
Identified by the polished commercial-style language promoting Galls and first-responder equipment.

Speaker 4 - Compliant Technologies Commercial Voice / Prerecorded Sponsor Segment
Identified by the polished sponsor message describing Compliant Technologies, CD3 technology, and the G.L.O.V. product.

Speaker 5 - GunLearn Commercial Voice / Prerecorded Sponsor Segment
Identified by the polished sponsor message describing GunLearn firearm specialist training and certifications.

Speaker 6 - Police Officer / Trooper in Video Footage
Identified by the quoted commands in the video footage, including traffic-stop and weapon commands. Individual officer names are not identified in the transcript.

Speaker 7 - Suspect / Civilian Voice in Video Footage
Identified by quoted responses or remarks from suspects or civilians captured in the video footage. Individual identities are only used where the host later identifies them from the story.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I’m your host for a group of law enforcement professionals who talk about today’s news and issues from a law enforcement perspective.

I’m laughing because Scott and I were having some fun before we went live on the show. He got me laughing. So, yes, Scott Steier is here. He is a former Green Beret and Delta Force operative. Thanks for being on the show, Scott. He brings a very unique perspective, and he is basically one of the reasons why we always have to explain why we do not just neutralize the threat in domestic situations. We always have to explain this, Scott. We just can’t kill everybody like Special Forces, but anyhow, we are streaming live to about a million people. Thanks for watching on the stream as well, guys.

We also have sponsors. They go to great lengths to bring this good quality content to you, so please remember our sponsors and support them. We have our title sponsor, Galls, at galls.com. Don’t forget that 15% discount code. It’s RADIO15. The next time you go to galls.com, type in RADIO15 in order to get 15% off.

Also, CompliantTechnologies.com is our satellite sponsor. And, yes, we are in the process of leaving satellite radio with Westwood One, which is for radio stations, and we’re trying to make the transition over to SiriusXM, which is still satellite.

Also, a shout-out to GunLearn.com, another sponsor, MyMedicare.live, and 2Belles.com. They built a new online store at leoroundtable.com. You can go there for cool gear, like the shirt I’m wearing, the mug on the desk behind me, and the sweatshirt I got Scott that he has never worn on the show yet. All that kind of stuff is available at leoroundtable.com, our online store.

I’m on a roll. A shout-out to the guys who are carrying our content and allowing us to stream to their sources: Brian Burns with Tampa Free Press, Ray Dietrich with FormerLawman.com, and Travis Yates with LawOfficer.com.

Scott is always on me: “Chip, tell people how they can watch the show.” If it’s a podcast platform, we’re going to be on it, especially Spotify and Apple iTunes, the top ones, and also social media. We stream to a ton of sources like Rumble, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and Truth Social. We are on all these outlets and a lot more. You can find every outlet we are on, and how to get there, by going to our website, leoroundtable.com. The top menu bar has all that information.

Now, what in the world are we talking about today? We have a “Dumb and Order” story. We have, “He shot me.” An ex-North Carolina police officer, notice I said ex, pleads guilty in an unarmed motorcyclist’s death. It is not a great story to cover, but we need to cover it.

We have a story with a video component in New Mexico. State police released footage of a fatal shooting during a traffic stop. We have Bolton. Yes, John Bolton, the former national security adviser for Trump. The ex-Trump adviser cuts a deal to avoid prison in a classified leak case. He went out saying that it was all a big thing and that the Justice Department was being weaponized against him. Now he’s crying.

Then we have an arrested suspect who slips out of handcuffs before hijacking a Dallas police car. That’s crazy. He jumps onto the highway, and he takes a cop along for the ride.

Then we have Kash Patel. We love Kash. He axes FBI staffers behind the controversial Catholic extremism memo. Yes, he’s not done liquidating jobs.

Then we have the Greenville Sheriff’s Office determining that a deadly deputy shooting of a knife-wielding suspect was justified. If we have time to get to it, we also have a New Jersey sergeant who is charged with stealing a journalist’s camera gear worth about $10,000. The weird thing is that he is a police sergeant, but he worked for the Essex County Prosecutor’s Office. How did he get into the position where he could steal that stuff? It just makes you think. He did not work for the police department, according to the article. He worked for the prosecutor’s office, so that raised a little flag about maybe lowering standards. Maybe he could not get on with the police department, and he was able to get on with the prosecutor’s office. I do not know, but we will cover that possibility as well.

If you’re ready, Scott, let’s start off with The Charlotte Observer. “He shot me.” An ex-North Carolina police officer pleads guilty in an unarmed motorcyclist’s death.

Before we start the show, Scott and I were talking about how no one hates bad cops, or bad Special Forces operatives, more than the good guys who are doing that job right, because it makes us all look bad. We said we do not have to cover this kind of stuff, but we are going to cover it. I do not like to cover it, but I feel it is necessary. We do this every once in a while.

There is no systemic problem with military guys or with law enforcement. There are just some bad apples. There is a human component to this job, because you have to go through a hiring process to get in it, and that means there are always going to be weaknesses. Please keep that in mind.

A former Newton Police Department lieutenant has pleaded guilty to second-degree murder in the fatal shooting of an unarmed motorcyclist. This is according to the Catawba County District Attorney’s Office.

Lieutenant Carlos Yuret was only 29 years old and a lieutenant, so that is a flag for me.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Well, it’s a flag, but it could also mean he was a fast tracker. It could be that way, right? I do not know. I would not top it. When I saw that, the first thing I thought was, “Man, he is either super squared away and super switched on, or...”

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
He could not have become a cop until at least 21, unless there are some rare situations. But with a gun and ammo, okay, 21. So eight years later, he is a lieutenant. That means he has gone from officer to the corporal or detective rank, past sergeant, and now he is at lieutenant.

When you are new, a lot of people say you are really a rookie. You are learning way too much. In your first 10 years as a police officer, you are learning a lot, but definitely in the first five years. Being a lieutenant in that position, to me, is a flag.

Smaller agencies will let you climb the corporate ladder quicker, but it does not mean you are getting the experience you need, because you are at a smaller agency and now you are a lieutenant. I am just saying, for me, that is a flag.

This lieutenant, Carlos Yuret, and we are going to jump to Camden Shoulders, who was 21 years old. He was fatally shot after a motorcycle chase on June 26, 2025, according to the district attorney’s office.

Now, Camden Shoulders was a bad guy. He was not cooperative with law enforcement. He was a bad guy. He did not follow the orders. He was running, so he bears responsibility for this. Simply comply. If you do not want something like this to happen, comply. I am not giving the cop a free pass. He is getting everything he deserves, but the bad guy was a bad guy because he did not comply with law enforcement, and he was a 21-year-old bad guy.

An investigation by the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation determined that the lieutenant kicked and shot Shoulders after Shoulders raised his hands in surrender and was no longer deemed a threat, according to the district attorney’s office.

Shoulders had led officers on two chases in other jurisdictions before Newton police tried to stop him. Shoulders rode over a spike strip in a cul-de-sac near Walmart in Conover, and he reached a point where he could no longer get away. He ended up in that cul-de-sac. It was a dead end.

Lieutenant Yuret used his patrol car to knock the bad guy off his motorcycle to the ground. The lieutenant’s body-camera footage captured the officer telling the victim to get on the ground. The bad guy clearly has his hands up in surrender. He says, “Hey, I’m sorry, man. I’m sorry.” The video shows the lieutenant kicking him in the stomach before you hear a gunshot, and then the bad guy says, “I’m sorry. He shot me.”

Shoulders had multiple plans and chases on the motorcycle, so he knew what he was doing. He was pronounced dead at the medical center. An autopsy showed he died of a gunshot wound to his chest. The lieutenant is scheduled to be sentenced on September 8. Essentially, that is coming up. Again, the article says that this ex-North Carolina police officer pleads guilty. He pleaded guilty to this.

I have a couple of flags, but, Scott, you go first, and then I’ll tell you what I’m thinking.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
I’m just trying to put myself into the officer’s shoes. He was probably worked up. He was probably taking it personally. He was chasing this guy multiple times. He was probably upset, thinking this guy is potentially causing wrecks and could kill innocent people driving down the street. He is putting a lot of people in danger.

However, he let his emotions, in my view, get the best of him. I am just assuming, right? I could see him letting his emotions get the best of him. He gets out there, he is taking it personally, he is worked up, and he wants to teach this punk a lesson or whatever. I do not know. Obviously, it is wrong. He should not have done that. He should have been able to keep his emotions in check. It is not personal. That is what I am assuming. I am sure there is going to be an investigation, or there might be something more to it. But I feel like he was probably worked up in the moment, his adrenaline was pumping, he was angry, and this guy could have almost killed people along the way.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
What I see in this is that we do not teach one shot. It says that he was shot one time, and it also says that the lieutenant was kicking him. Why do we have a lieutenant doing a car chase anyhow? Normally, with a decent-sized department, because you have to be pretty small to have lieutenants on the road chasing guys.

The flag I see is that I suspect he was upset because this guy had been running from police for a while. This was not his first one. There is not a lot of information here, but with my experience, I suspect that he had his gun out in his hand, and he went up and kicked the guy. We do not do one shots. We do double taps and stuff. So one shot is normally a flag in law enforcement that it was an accidental discharge or an unintentional discharge.

When you hit or strike somebody and you have your gun in your hand, if you have your finger on the trigger, I am preaching to the choir, because you know this better than anybody. You could teach me. But you can depress that trigger and fire a shot.

I suspect there is a strong likelihood that our cop was heated, kicking the bad guy, or maybe it was a justified kick. I do not know. But when he did that, I suspect he had his gun out, and that one shot came at that time, and he shot and killed the guy.

That does not mean he still would not have had to plead, or that it was not better for him to plead guilty. I am just saying that it would explain more to me about how what transpired happened. That just makes sense to me.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Right. That is a good point. I actually thought about that, too, when it said he fired one shot. That is a good point. I have not seen the video. I do not think there is a video to this, maybe because there is still an investigation or something. But yes, you are right. That very well could have been it.

At least then, it was not his emotions or anything. It was an accident. But still, there is no justification. That would not surprise me. I have seen a lot of officers’ gun-handling skills...

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Perfect timing. On that thought, we’ll be right back. Our first commercial break, guys.

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Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I’m your host. We are joined by former Green Beret and Delta Force operative Scott Steier. Thanks for being back on the show.

We have been talking about this cop, this lieutenant, who got jammed up because he kicked, shot, and killed a motorcyclist who had been running from him and other law enforcement officers multiple times. Anything more on that, Scott? Sentencing is coming up, so he is on his own. I do not have sympathy. He is on his own.

Scott, we were talking on the break about you coming to visit me, I think in September. I was going to tell you that I went down to Total Wine, and I learned something. I take classes. I have a new drink I’m going to make. I know you have a two-drink minimum, or I should say maximum. Sorry about that. You have a two-drink maximum, but I have this third drink. It is a blackberry old-fashioned, if you can imagine that. It is so sweet that you have to make it with rye whiskey, which takes a lot of the sweetness out of it. I am just throwing that out there in case I can convert you on this. It is one of those drinks where you have lime juice in it. Dude, it is ridiculous.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Yes, I am sure you could probably twist my arm.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
All right. Build your tolerance. Start working on your tolerance.

So, Rumble.com. This is Butter. There is a video component to this. We have New Mexico State Police releasing footage of a fatal shooting during a traffic stop.

Speaker 6 - Police Officer / Trooper in Video Footage:
Hey, what are you doing? I’m trying to pull you over. Step back here. This is a traffic stop, sir. Hey, go away. Show me your hands. No. Come over here. Stop. Show me your hands. Show me your hands. Show me your hands right now. Drop it. Drop it. Drop it right now. Drop it.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
This happened in Los Lunas, New Mexico. At 8:30 p.m. on Friday evening, a New Mexico State Police trooper attempted a traffic stop on a gray 2004 Dodge pickup truck.

The first impressive thing about the story is that we still have a 2004 Dodge pickup truck on the road. That thing is a little old, right? This is 2026, so that is pushing 22 years.

The truck, instead of pulling over and stopping, ended up being driven by a man later identified as Jesus Munoz Duran, who was 53 years old. That is about your age, Scott. If I am not corrected by Alpha, you are 54?

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Fifty-four. Yes.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I could be your brother, dude.

So he is 53 years old. He exits the vehicle and stands by the driver’s door. This is finally after he had been running. He finally stops. Our trooper gets out.

We have dash-camera and body-camera footage. They do a split screen, so you are able to see both at the same time. The picture gets smaller when they do that. I have a big monitor, about 34 inches or so, so it helps. You are looking at the dash cam and the body cam.

In the dash cam, you can see the trooper has moved over to the left-hand side, away from the car, up against the building. All of that is critical because there are tactics involved in this, and you cannot see the bad guy’s hands. The trooper made an intentional decision to leave the cover of the vehicle. I am not saying that was wrong, but he really wanted to see what was going on inside the cockpit of the truck this guy was driving.

He moves, and he is giving the guy commands, because the guy is not showing his hands. Remember this guy is 53 years old. The New Mexico State Police officer told Munoz Duran to show his hands, and he did. He showed a handgun and ended up firing at the officer, who returned fire and actually hit the bad guy.

Here we go. Remember, guys, reaction is much slower than the initial offensive action from somebody. This guy had the jump on the officer. Even if our officer had his gun pointed at the bad guy at the time, he would have been unable to fire until after the bad guy had already taken shots at him. I guarantee it. It is a fact, and you cannot get away from it unless you have a lot of fast-twitch stuff going on, with slow twitch on the gunman and fast twitch on the good guy.

Our bad guy was pronounced dead at the scene. It was later determined that he was on probation for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and that he was a convicted felon. So he was a prohibited person and was not supposed to have the gun, but of course he had it.

Scott, break this down for us.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
I am kind of big on this. I would not like standing in the doorway of a cop car. I think cops are probably trained that way or taught that way. Could a door stop a bullet? Sure, it could, but it is not ballistic. It could, but it might not either. I do not like to be confined into a spot. I want to be able to move left and right. I probably would have done the same thing the cop did, especially when the suspect was walking out like that. He got a better angle. I probably would have done the exact same thing.

The thing that I think, and it was probably a policy thing, is that he had his flashlight in one hand and his gun in the other. He did not have a weapon-mounted flashlight. That would have changed things. That is a game changer.

It worked out, so that tells me the cop was probably trained. I think he handled the situation really well. It is just too bad he did not have a weapon-mounted flashlight, because it forced him to shoot with one hand. Anybody who shoots a handgun knows that shooting with one hand is a heck of a lot harder than shooting with two hands on the gun. There is no comparison.

Sure, you can shoot with one hand well. It takes a lot more practice, and no matter how much you practice, you are never going to be as good as shooting with two hands, especially when you factor in that this guy is trying to kill you. He is probably a moving target, and there is stress involved.

But it worked out fine. I just would have liked to have seen him with a weapon-mounted flashlight so he had both hands on the gun. Good on him. I think he had a really good indication that this guy was up to something, because it was very fishy. He was stalling, taking his time, blading off, and having his hand inside the car. I am sure his spidey senses were telling him a lot in that moment. He was ready to go.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I am glad it worked out. The whole weapon-attachment issue is an interesting story, with attachments on guns. They did not want us having lasers. Even optics, sights, and stuff like that. There are some equations that departments consider. Departments like to be standardized. If they are an agency, they are going to worry about liability. They want everybody shooting the same ammo so you can share it. Ideally, they would want everybody carrying, let’s say, a Glock, so you can share magazines. If I have a SIG and you have a Glock, even though we are shooting nine millimeter, it is not going to do us a lot of good if the magazines are not interchangeable.

Holsters are another issue. A lot of agencies contract with Safariland or someone else for holsters. If you now have an optic or a light, you cannot use the same holster. You have to get a completely different holster. A lot of those factors come into play when they make decisions on whether they allow you to carry this stuff. I suspect that probably was the issue. But yes, I am a fan of the mounted light.

We are seven seconds out, guys, from going back in. Stick with us. We’ll be right back.

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Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I’m your host. We are joined by Scott Steier, former Green Beret and Delta Force operative. Thanks for being on the show, Scott. I’m having fun. How about you?

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Excellent. Always a good time with you, too.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Thanks, brother. I appreciate it.

Are you ready to talk about this John Bolton stuff going on?

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Sure.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I am no fan of John Bolton. He reminds me of this former FDLE Florida law enforcement agent named Scott the Torker who used to work down here. Let’s just say there is really nothing nice to say about him. He is not alive anymore, but he was probably the most hated agent at FDLE who ever existed. This Bolton guy looks just like him, so I do not like him.

Former National Security Adviser John Bolton has agreed to plead guilty to a single count, boy, is he getting off the hook, of retaining classified information, striking a deal with the Justice Department that could keep him out of federal prison.

The development, disclosed on Thursday by somebody, looks to wrap up a multi-count criminal case before it ever hits the courtroom. I wish this guy would go to court, but then I do not want what happened to our FBI director to happen to him.

The agreement slashes an 18-count indictment against this guy that was handed down in October and accused Bolton of retaining and disseminating highly classified national security information. Government officials alleged that Bolton shared diary-like notes from his time in the White House with his family while drafting his post-administration memoir.

Under the terms of the new agreement, he is facing a $2.25 million fine, so that has to hurt, and the potential for prison time. It is capped at five years now, and it is up to the judge whether he is going to get it. He really got let off the hook quite a bit here.

An arraignment hearing is currently scheduled for June 26 in Greenbelt, Maryland. That is going to formalize the change of his plea, because he did not make that plea originally.

He is a veteran Republican foreign-policy hawk. He served in the Reagan and Bush administrations before he joined Trump as national security adviser back in 2018. His 17-month tenure was marked by frequent policy clashes between him and the president. He left the administration in 2019 and authored a highly critical memoir called The Room Where It Happened.

While the Trump administration previously attempted to block the book’s publication on national security grounds, Bolton’s defense lawyers maintained that a White House security official cleared the manuscript as being free of classified information. But prosecutors decided to go after him for leaking information and sharing highly classified information with family members. That is the way they went on this one.

He is getting off the hook for the 18 counts. It is going down to one count. He might get up to five years in prison, but that may be unlikely now. Your thoughts, Scott?

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Yes, another example of politicians having a different standard. Come on. In some ways, I am glad that he is basically pleading guilty, because if he did not, he would get off anyhow. The judges in that area, I am sure, are going to protect him in some way.

These people are entrusted with information. They have so much information. I look at it from the type of work I used to do and from understanding how collection of intelligence is done. We have got to be the biggest joke in the world when it comes to foreign assets collecting information on us.

We have a very open society. We have people from all over the world who can move freely among us. Compare that to somewhere like China, where everything is locked down. If somebody wanted to collect information in China on the government or what they are doing, it would be a lot harder because there are not so many foreign outsiders there. They can assign people to the few who are there who might be a potential threat and follow them everywhere. Here, we do not have the assets to do that.

What I am saying is that, just like with Hillary and her Blackberry, they are putting this information out there. If you do not think that foreign assets have the ability to get into an unsecured computer or something that has only a normal level of security, you are crazy. They listen, and they take all this stuff in.

I wish they would make examples of these people, because in the end, it is about collecting information here, here, here, and here. They gather it all, and they start to create a picture. They might think, “This is not a big deal. This happened back then,” or whatever. But it is not just that one piece of information. It is the information they collect from all these politicians and all these people who are being sloppy because of their ego. They want to talk to family, or whatever the reason is. They are sloppy. Now it is a national security threat issue.

Yes, I wish he would get more. I wish they would make an example of him, but it does not surprise me. It is business as usual in Washington.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I remember how critical he was of Trump when Trump was going through the classified document investigation stuff, and Trump was not being accused of leaking it like Bolton was. It kind of brings a smile across my face seeing what Bolton is having to deal with now and paying $2.25 million.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Yes. Let him live with that.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
If you’re ready, buddy, we have another one here. There is a story with another video component. We have a little less than five minutes before we take our last commercial break. At Rumble.com, our favorite law enforcement video channel, This Is Butter, shows an arrested suspect slipping out of handcuffs before hijacking a Dallas police car and jumping onto the highway.

Speaker 6 - Police Officer in Video Footage:
Hey, he got it. He got it. Stop the car. Stop the car. Stop the car. Stop the car.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
This is from Dallas, Texas. The Dallas police chief is supposed to be joining our show. They have expressed interest in doing that. I was just in Dallas a couple of weeks ago, so we are trying to make that happen.

Let’s talk about this. Dallas police say a suspect slipped his handcuffs in order to escape arrest before briefly hijacking a police car last weekend. We have video of that. If you watch the live show at 12 Eastern, you will see it. If you watch the version that comes out tomorrow morning at 9 Eastern on our Rumble channel, called Leo Roundtable, we will have that video embedded into the show.

On May 30 at 5:35 p.m., Dallas police arrested 37-year-old Stacy Huffman after a traffic stop. Huffman ended up being charged with driving with an invalid driver’s license, possession of a controlled substance, and unlawful possession of a firearm.

After being placed in a police car, our bad guy was able to remove his left hand from his handcuffs and conceal it from officers. We have an in-car camera shooting the back of the car, but there is no cage in the car. They are transporting this dude without a cage between the front seat and the back seat. Our audience will see very quickly why it is very important always to have a cage.

Anyhow, he is able to remove his left hand from the handcuffs and conceal it. Then he removes his seatbelt and attempts to open the door from the inside. He is in the right rear passenger side, behind the front-seat passenger, and he is trying to unlock the door. The driver says, “Hey, dude, what are you doing?” He looks over and sees the guy doing it, so the driver pulls over. They are on the interstate.

The front passenger gets out, and the driver gets out. They are both in uniform, and they leave the guy in the car. The front-seat passenger opens up the rear passenger door where this guy was sitting, but guess what? He is no longer in the seatbelt. His hands are free. He has one handcuff on the other hand. He crawls through the two front seats and gets behind the wheel of the car, because they apparently left it running, and he puts it in gear.

At the last minute, you hear the driver, who is going around that side of the car, say, “Hey, get in the car.” So, yes, the front-seat passenger is now the rear-seat passenger. The car takes off, barreling down the interstate at 50-plus miles an hour. Now they are northbound on Interstate 35, and our back-seat passenger is trying to restrain the driver, who is this felon. He is trying to get his Taser ready to fire.

Even if it had happened that way, tasing somebody who is going at a high rate of speed in a car with other cars around on the interstate can cause a lot of bad things to happen. We have already seen that a lot of agencies have policies against doing stuff like that.

He tries to tase the guy. That does not work out too well. Then he essentially ends up pistol-whipping the guy. The bad guy jumps out of the moving car. It is going fast, and he ends up unconscious when he lands on the interstate. Then our back-seat passenger, who was the front-seat passenger officer, brings the car to a stop, unbelievably without there being an accident. They go back and pick up the bad guy, who is now lying unconscious on the side of the interstate.

Both Huffman and the officer went to the hospital. Once released, our bad guy is going to be given additional charges for unauthorized use of a vehicle and escape from custody. How about theft of a motor vehicle? How about escape? There is a lot of crap there.

Less than a minute, Scott Steier.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Do you think this is going to be a training video in the future?

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Dude, I think so.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
I do not even know where to begin on this. It is one bad decision after another. It just kept snowballing. Everything kept happening. It was unique and different, I will say that. This is definitely something they need to look at.

Both of them getting out of the car was one issue. First of all, did he pick the handcuffs, or did he slip out of them? I am just curious.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
He took one hand out, so the cuffs were still on the other hand.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
His will to get out of there was strong. He was feisty. There were a lot of mistakes, but it worked.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
All right. Commercial break, guys. Stick with us. We will be right back.

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Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I’m your host. We are joined by former Green Beret and Delta Force operative Scott Steier.

We have been talking about a case where we have a bad guy arrested, thrown in the back seat of a car, and transported to jail. But the handcuffs apparently were not put on properly, because he gets out of one of the cuffs. And then there is no cage. No cage.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
That was going to be my second mistake. Why is that? I thought every cop car I had ever seen had that cage in there. Was it just an older model? I am curious, or were they not regular officers?

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I do not have the answer. I know you always transport in a cruiser with a cage as long as it is available. I have driven a paddy wagon. I have transported people in a cool car without a cage before, but only when you actually have to do that. Normally, I will go to a cruiser with a cage. When I go down to booking, I do not think I have ever taken anyone to booking in a cool car. I have always let the uniformed officers do that in the proper car.

I do not know if it was a small agency. It looked like these guys maybe were working in the car, maybe doing traffic enforcement in the car, and it just did not have a cage. But yes, this is what happens. When you handcuff people, you need to make sure they are handcuffed. You do not want to cut off the circulation, but the cuffs need to be tightened so they cannot do that.

It can happen. I am not going to tell you I have never had a prisoner escape from me out of a holding cell. I have seen guys get their hands out of handcuffs. I have seen officers search guys and miss guns, and then they find the guns in the back seat of the car when they get the guy out to go to jail. I have seen all that stuff. It could happen to anybody. But usually, when it happens, it only happens one time. After that happens, you have learned your lesson.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Have you ever heard of a guy, I think his last name was James Earl Carl? He was in Tampa. He killed Randy Bell and Ricky Childers.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Yes. He killed an FHP trooper, too.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
My ex-father-in-law was on the highway when that guy pulled over, because he was right there. At one point, he pulled over at 75 North and 54. He drove right by and saw the whole thing starting to happen. That was tragic. Horrible, horrible, horrible. But it just reminded me of that situation.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I have chills right now just thinking about that, because I remember where I was when it happened. Hank Earl Carr, I believe, was in a domestic situation. He ended up being arrested. They put his handcuffs in the front. I knew both these guys very well. Randy Bell was driving. Ricky Childers was in the front passenger seat. They had him in an unmarked detective’s car with no cage.

Ricky Childers was famous for wearing a shoulder holster, and he had that on. It was made by Sullivan’s Holster Shop. I know all this stuff. Hank Earl Carr had a handcuff key hidden on him. He used it and got out of the handcuffs. He reached up and went for Ricky Childers’ gun, which was in his shoulder holster. It was fairly easy to access. He got into a fight over the gun with Ricky and ended up shooting Randy Bell, who was driving.

He got out of the car, took off on the interstate, and there was an FHP trooper around the I-75 and State Road 54 overpass. I cannot remember whether the trooper got shots off, but Hank ended up shooting the trooper. I think it was while he was driving. He shot the trooper on the overpass and killed him. Then he went to a gas station building. I think they used a robot or whatever, and he ended up dying at the end of that scene. We had three dead cops. It was just a horrible day. It was horrible.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
You think about it, and this had a lot of similarities to that. It could have been way worse than what it was. In hindsight, I am sure these guys are going to get a lot of grief. There are going to be a lot of people, or a lot of stuff, and they are going to be made fun of. But I tell you what, it could have been bad.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
Yes, it could have been a lot worse.

All right, guys, we will move along. We have a little less than five minutes. We have Patel axing some FBI staffers. We have the Greenville Sheriff’s Office and a deadly deputy shooting of a knife-wielding guy. Then we have the New Jersey police sergeant who was charged with stealing camera equipment. Your choice, Scott. What would you like to cover?

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
Let’s do the knife thing.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
You want to do the knife thing? All right. That is the video from Rumble.com, This Is Butter. The Greenville Sheriff’s Office in South Carolina determined that a deadly deputy shooting of a knife-wielding suspect was justified.

Speaker 6 - Police Officer / Deputy in Video Footage:
What’s wrong? I’m just asking you what happened so we can have both sides. We only have one side of the story, and he’s saying something happened. We only have one side of the story going off. I’m trying to say, if you do not tell us what happened, we only have one side of the story. Did you hit her? Okay. Why would she say that?

Speaker 7 - Suspect / Civilian Voice in Video Footage:
If I push her, then I hit her. You ain’t arresting me. I ain’t going down without a fight.

Speaker 6 - Police Officer / Deputy in Video Footage:
Dude, don’t get shot. What are you doing, bro? Dude, don’t get shot. Put that knife down. Put that knife down, bro. Put it down. Put the knife down. Put that knife down. You’re going to get shot, bro. Put the knife down. Drop the knife. Drop it. Drop it.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
This is the Greenville County Sheriff’s Office. This happened on a Saturday, and it went down on December 9, 2025. It ended with a deputy-involved shooting and the death of a 29-year-old named John DeLanting Rodriguez.

According to the Sheriff’s Office, just before 11:30 p.m., or just before midnight, on December 9, the Greenville County Communications Center received a 911 call from a female saying that she had been assaulted at the Pointe at Greenville apartments. Deputies went to the scene. They encountered the victim of the assault and also Rodriguez.

In the body-camera footage, Rodriguez tells deputies that he and the victim had been arguing, but he denied hitting her. The body camera shows the victim telling deputies that she came home from work and was changing her clothes when Rodriguez, whom she identified as her boyfriend, pushed her and began hitting her in the ribs. She is giving this account to the deputies.

The video shows the deputies making a second attempt to interview Rodriguez. This guy moves into the kitchen and picks up a knife. Pay attention to what happens, because we have video of this as well.

In the body-camera video, he can be heard telling the deputy, “You ain’t arresting me. I tell you that, and I ain’t going down without a fight.” After seeing Rodriguez had picked up the knife, the deputy backed out of the apartment with his gun drawn and repeatedly told him to put the knife down.

The video shows the bad guy appearing to lunge at deputies. He ends up being shot and falls over, but he still has the knife. In the video shared by the Sheriff’s Office, it shows the deputy standing outside the apartment for roughly three minutes, continuing to order him to release the knife. He was still breathing, and then, of course, he was later pronounced dead.

According to my show notes, if you start looking at about four minutes and five seconds into this and jump to four minutes and 45 seconds, the suspect walks away from the officer and goes into the kitchen. This is why it is always important to be aware of your surroundings.

At 5:03, the suspect walks toward the officer with a knife in his right hand. The officer is totally unaware of that. We then have 32 seconds before shots are fired. It could have been so much worse. Scott, start us off. A minute and 43 seconds.

Speaker 2 - Scott Steier, Guest:
That is exactly what I was thinking. First, the guy looked like he was thinking, “Okay, I am going to do something here.” He was going back and forth.

I have seen a lot of officers who, if somebody is walking back out of their view, say, “Come here. You are going to stay here. Do not go over there.” They want to keep them in sight. This officer, I thought, was very nonchalant. He was trying to be cool with the guy, almost to his detriment. What if the guy had grabbed a gun? He just let this guy walk out of his view.

Then when he walked over there, as soon as I saw the guy, his hand was down there, and he was kind of holding it by his arm. I thought, “He has something in his hand.” The cop never picked up on that. The first thing I would have said is, “Hey, what do you have?” It was so obvious, because his hand was right there, and he would not move it.

Then he starts walking toward him, and finally the officer reacts. I do not know what the cop was thinking. It took him a while to pick up on that, which was concerning. It worked out. You are right. I think it was a good shoot. The guy came after him, and he obviously said he was not going to go in without a fight. He was not going to jail. It was a good shoot, but I was shocked that the cop did not pick up on him having a knife or that he let him get out of his view like that.

Speaker 1 - Chip DeBlock, Host:
I never let bad guys go into kitchens. It is just unsafe. There are scissors and too many weapons of choice. Remember, they know where everything is. You do not necessarily know.

Why let them go into the kitchen? Remember the female who ended up picking up the pot of boiling water and throwing it at an officer? He let her go to take it off the stove, and he could have done that. I am just saying, in hindsight, scary stuff.

We are into the Wounded Blue time, but, Scott Steier, thank you so much for being on the show. Man, you absolutely killed it today. Thanks a lot.

I do want to mention The Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org. Lieutenant Randy Sutton runs this 501(c)(3), helping cops around the world who hurt. They help with things like PTSD and other issues. If you are looking for an organization to support that is not going to embarrass you, I highly recommend The Wounded Blue at thewoundedblue.org.

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We will see you guys back tomorrow at 12 noon Eastern for our next live show. Again, that is 12 noon Eastern.