Synagogue Security, Campus Terror, Armed Encounters, and a Wild Trailer Pursuit

Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host: Identified by the opening introduction and recurring host role throughout the law enforcement panel discussion.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Guest / Law Enforcement Commentator: Identified by the host’s introduction as retired Captain Brett Bartlett, formerly of the Tampa Police Department, and by the back-and-forth commentary throughout the episode.

Speaker 3 – Sponsor / Prerecorded Ad Voice: Identified by separate commercial reads for Galls, Comply Technologies, and GunLearn.

Speaker 4 – Video / Incident Audio: Identified when body-camera or incident audio is played within the program.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome to LEO Round Table at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are a group of law enforcement professionals who talk about today’s news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective.

You recognize him. We have Captain Brett Bartlett on the show, formerly of the Tampa Police Department, with 32 years of exemplary law enforcement experience. We are not done. He is also the founder of Ex Umbris Defense Solutions at exumbrisdefense.com. Thanks so much for being on the show, Captain.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
I am thrilled to be here. I had nothing else going on, so here I am.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
There you go.

A shout-out to our sponsors. We have our title sponsor, Galls at galls.com. Do not forget the discount code I am getting ready to give you. It is easy to remember, but do not forget it, because you always get 15 percent off with Galls when you use it. It is Radio 15. Remember, Radio 15, the next time you go to galls.com.

We also have Comply Technologies at complytechnologies.com, our satellite sponsor; GunLearn.com; MyMedicare.life; and TwoBells.com. They are both in our new online store at leoroundtable.com.

A shout-out to Brian Burns for the Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com, Ray Dietrich from lawman.com, and Travis Yates with lawofficer.com. Thanks for helping make the show happen.

Now, what in the world are we talking about today?

We have training credited for saving lives after an explosives-laden truck rammed a Michigan synagogue. Then we have the ODU shooter, which is the Old Dominion University shooter in Virginia, identified as a former National Guardsman with an ISIS conviction. Yes, you heard that right. There is a judge who let him out. He just got out of prison.

We have a Pasco deputy injured in a shooting after the suspect shot two other people. We have Chino police releasing body-camera footage of officers shooting a guy who was armed with a knife. We have UFC, the Ultimate Fighting Championship, and the FBI partnering together for a historic first. Wait until you hear what they are doing together. As you can tell, I am excited about it.

We also have a 2023 video released of a shootout between a murder suspect and Pierce County deputies and a K9. We have not covered this yet. Then we have a K9 catching a bad guy underneath the crawl space of a house, where he could not get away. That was interesting.

Then we have a cruiser. I do not know how the officer got up on the empty trailer being pulled by the bad guy, but the police cruiser ends up all the way on top of this trailer. The trailer is being pulled by the bad guy, so the officer is going along for the ride in his cruiser. A second cruiser has to come up and PIT the bad guy, and everything breaks loose after that. The cop car rolls off the trailer, the trailer jackknifes, and the bad guy T-bones a tree. It is kind of crazy.

We will get to all of that if we have time. Brett, are you ready to start off with the two main topics?

All right, I get a thumbs-up from Captain Brett.

Our first one: I am not excited about this happening, but we know, especially with what is going on with Iran right now, that we expect some things to be going on. What I can tell you is this: if we keep handling incidents like this the way this was handled, I believe they will be few and far between. I would much rather go through incidents like this in this day and age than wait for a nuclear bomb to come in on a long-range missile.

This is from the Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com: “Training Credited for Saving Lives After Explosives-Laden Truck Rams Michigan Synagogue.”

Most of us heard about this yesterday. The suspect drove a truck packed with explosives into the entrance of Temple Israel in West Bloomfield, Michigan. This happened on Thursday afternoon. He breached the building, but he was stopped by on-site security after that.

The attack happened just weeks after the FBI Detroit Field Office held a specialized active-shooter and threat-preparedness training at the synagogue with clergy and staff. Brilliant. I mean, the FBI—this is the new FBI, Brett. Remember, in the old administration, we would always talk about the FBI, and we would talk about that guy and that guy and just how much they sucked. It was horrible.

FBI Director Kash Patel confirmed that the bureau had previously visited the facility to conduct active-shooter attack prevention and preparedness training. The program focused on run, hide, fight principles and making high-pressure decisions during a live breach.

Sheriff Michael Bouchard reported that the attacker was successfully halted by the synagogue security team once he entered the building. No children or staff were injured in the incident by the suspect. One security person was hospitalized after being struck by the vehicle during the initial breach. Thirty law enforcement officers were treated for smoke inhalation during the incident.

According to the sheriff, the prior training was a decisive factor in the outcome of this nightmare. Here is a quote from the sheriff: “What happens when they show up, that is where training and preparation kicks in.” He praised the security staff for stopping the threat before anyone inside could be harmed.

The FBI’s January training session used scenario-based exercises designed to help staff practice responses to the exact type of intrusion that occurred on Thursday. I love scenario-based training. I know you do too, Brett. You are a trainer. You have to be all over this.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
I will tell you what: this is going to sound a little sarcastic, but here it goes. If you did not expect a terrorist attack in West Bloomfield, which has always been a hotbed known for terrorist activity—of course, I am kidding there. Nobody knows. Nothing bad has ever happened in West Bloomfield.

All this indicates is that just when you think you are not near a center of criminal activity or near a well-known location, that is where it is going to happen. I am telling you from experience with the synagogues here in the Tampa area, they have some good security going on. I have dealt with some of them through the agency we used to go to.

Here is a big thing citizens need to know. When you hear the gunshots, yes, something bad is happening. They have to understand that they cannot look around. They cannot ask their buddy, “What is happening?” or say, “What is that noise? It is probably something else.” No. You need to get out. You need to run. If you cannot run, you need to hide. If you cannot hide, then you need to pull the gun that is on you and kill the bad guy.

We have to train response people, and then they have to worry about physical security. I do not know about this location, but what did they have? Did they have bollards installed outside to stop vehicles from approaching the building? Not everybody can afford to do that, but that is something people need to look at.

Stop them at the street. If you cannot stop them at the street, stop them at the door. If you cannot stop them at the door, stop them inside. You have to layer your security. Again, all of that costs money. But here is the best thing people can do for themselves: realize that no matter where you live, it could happen to you today, right now.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
It is true. Keep your head on a swivel, like the captain said. It is going to happen. It is not if; it is when. Expect this stuff to happen. I love the fact that the sheriff went public and praised these guys. Maybe that lets the next guy think twice before trying something like this, because it did not go the way the bad guy wanted it to.

I see we have StarDawn and George chiming in about perfect timing on the FBI. Yep, it is a new FBI. It is under Trump 2.0.

If you are ready, Brett, we have another story here from tampafp.com. I love the Tampa Free Press.

We have the Old Dominion University shooter in Virginia identified as a former National Guardsman with an ISIS conviction. You guys heard that correctly.

They have identified this guy who opened fire at Old Dominion University on Thursday. I am not giving his name. He is a former National Guardsman who was previously convicted of supporting ISIS. The shooting resulted in one death and two injuries before the suspect ended up being killed.

FBI Director Kash Patel confirmed the incident on X, announcing that the agency is officially investigating the attack as an act of terrorism. He credited a group of students and law enforcement for stopping the threat. Here we go again. The shooter is now deceased thanks to a group of brave students who stepped in and subdued him.

The bad guy’s history with federal law enforcement dates back to 2016. According to the Justice Department, he met with an ISIS member and an undercover FBI informant, and expressed a desire to execute a mass shooting similar to what happened at Fort Hood in 2009.

In a sentencing memo from his 2017 trial, it detailed how he attempted to provide funds to the terrorist organization. He tried to purchase an AK-47 for what he believed was a plot to kill U.S. military personnel.

The 2017 memo said an ISIS broker introduced this bad guy to the informant. It was the result of that broker’s actions and the introduction to the informant that the FBI learned this guy existed and wanted to provide material support for ISIL.

Prosecutors originally sought a 20-year sentence. There is a judge we can blame for this: U.S. District Judge Liam O’Grady. Instead of 20 years, he sentenced the bad guy to 11 years in prison. He got out in December 2024, months before the shooting in Norfolk.

Commercial break. Guys, stick with us. We will be right back.

Speaker 3 – Sponsor / Prerecorded Ad Voice:
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Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to LEO Round Table at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are joined by Captain Brett Bartlett, retired from the Tampa Police Department.

We have been talking about the shooter from Old Dominion University in Virginia, a former National Guardsman convicted for supporting ISIS. Instead of giving him 20 years, like prosecutors wanted, the judge gave him only 11. He got out in December 2024, and now this has happened.

Captain Bartlett, unfortunately, an ROTC retired Army officer was killed. I also heard—and Betty Dunn, one of our viewers, reminded me—that one of those ROTC students stabbed the bad guy to death. He stabbed him to death with a knife because guns are not allowed on campus. But bad guys bring guns to campus, while students are not allowed to protect themselves. Thank goodness this one student had a knife, at least that is what I have heard. I hope that is really the case.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
I hope he cut his head off. I hope he just stuck it in and twisted it around a little bit. You have got to be ready. These colleges—why do bad guys attack colleges? Because nobody can fight back.

Imagine if you told your local university, “I am going to bring a gun on campus to protect myself.” They would lose their minds.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Brett, I have the gold-money idea. Get an ammo company that is looking to have a bigger stake in the market and get them to advertise that they soak their bullets or projectiles in some kind of pork product, and then they let them dry. Then you can fire them when you have a terrorist situation.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
That may work. Instead of going to meet virgins, maybe they go meet something slightly worn.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
My cardiologist, after a test, said, “I believe you have been soaked in a pork product.” So, yes, similar thing.

We have MBS typing over on Rumble about the capacity of the rounds of ammunition in this magazine. Since we are a national talk show, I am not going to repeat that. We do not want anybody knocking on his door.

If you are ready, Brett, that is another good story. Some great people out there, and it looks like they are expecting this stuff to happen and are prepared for it.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
America, you have to expect it.

Remember, Chip, back when we were on the street all those years ago and we were taking a burglary report or whatever we were taking, we would always ask the victim, “Did you think today was going to be the day it was going to happen to you?” Of course, the answer is no. “I did not expect it.”

There has to be a paradigm shift. We have to expect it today, in the next five minutes, or in the next 30 seconds. But we have to balance that between living our lives and living in condition black, where we are always expecting something. We have to find that balance.

First, we need to get our faces out of our phones when we are out in public. That is the first thing we have to do. Second, get a gun and carry a gun. That is the big thing.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Brett, you said something that stuck with me. We have trained all our lives. It seems like all our lives, but it is more like half our lives. We have trained and trained and trained. There is a part of guys who are built like us that wants to be tested.

I do not want anything bad to happen to anybody or anywhere. But if it goes down, and I know I do not even have to ask Brett because I know he feels the exact same way, if it goes down and it is going to be around here, I am hoping I am there so I can be the dude who neutralizes the bad guy.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
We have talked about that in the secret places where nobody visits. In my belief, the warrior does not want bad things to happen, but he thinks, “Test me.” I want to be there. I want to hear the bad guy who tries to hurt my church say his last words: “Crap, that was a huge mistake on my part.”

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Right before he goes to his 70 virgins.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
All yelling, “Do not pay attention to me.” That is hell for him.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
If he gets shot with my bullets, though, it will not be 70 virgins. It will be 70 twice-divorcees.

Guys, if you are watching, I still run into cops, including retired cops, who do not carry. For whatever reason, they do not carry. They do not see the importance of it. Shame on you. When you are in a situation and you cannot do anything, but you had the capability and did not exercise it, especially in today’s day and age, shame on you.

Not to mention what we did for a living. I have run into bad guys. I could tell you stories where bad guys told me what my wife looked like. They followed me in the mall. They told me they walked me in the parking lot and knew what kind of car I drove. I have been in a restaurant sitting down, and a guy I was investigating for homicide was waiting on me. He walked up to take my order and then turned around and walked away when he recognized me.

There are all kinds of things that happen. I have had people prepare my food and found out after the fact that they knew I was a cop investigating certain people. So, guys, you never know. Always be prepared.

If you are not, shame on you, unless there is a good reason you are not carrying. You have the ability. You have LEOSA, also known as HR 218. You can carry anywhere in the U.S., including territories. There is no excuse. You have to qualify once a year. You should shoot at least once a year.

Somebody came up with this recently. I do not think I made it up, but I want to say I did: I am my family’s Secret Service. I will die to protect my people. This is a tribute to our good friends at Secret Service, especially Mike Roche. We have known Mike for decades.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
I will step in front of that bullet. This is not hyperbole. If I go down, it is because I am out of bullets. I am going to step in front and protect my people, even though nobody pays me to do this anymore.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Mike Roche wrote the book Mass Killers. Everybody better be reading that book.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
I told Mike once that the sad thing about this book is that it needs to be redone about every 30 days, with new stories up front.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Good point.

Moving along, I am just going to whet the appetite because we are coming up on a commercial break. This next one is a Pasco deputy injured in a shooting after the suspect shot two other people.

Speaker 4 – Video / Incident Audio:
Come on out, man. Come on out. Come on out. Come out. Come out. Come out. I am hit. I am hit. I am hit.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
This is New Port Richey, Florida, so not far away from us, and actually a lot closer to Brett than to me. Stick with us. We will be right back.

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Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to LEO Round Table at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are joined by Captain Brett Bartlett, retired from the Tampa Police Department.

We left off talking about a Pasco deputy who was injured in a shooting after the suspect shot two other people. We are getting this from rumble.com, our favorite law enforcement video channel, This Is Butter.

In Pasco County, they have a little place called New Port Richey. It is kind of a special place. The Pasco County Sheriff’s Office deputy and two civilians ended up being shot by a gunman on Monday, according to Sheriff Chris Nocco. Good guy, by the way.

The shooting happened around noon on Monday in New Port Richey. The sheriff said the incident started when the suspect, Aaron Rodriguez, began yelling at a man and a woman who were clearing land. They were all neighbors. Rodriguez lived across the street. He got irate and upset. He started threatening the male victim, who was with the woman, and yelling at both of them to get out of there.

According to the sheriff, the male victim began calling 911, and Rodriguez then shot both the man and the woman. The woman ran away, but she had been shot. The male victim collapsed at the intersection.

Deputies got there and rendered aid to both victims. The male victim pointed to the house where Rodriguez was hiding. Three deputies went over there, including a K9 handler. He is pivotal in this.

They began approaching the house and ordering the bad guy to drop his firearm. Let me paint the visual picture. As they walk along the side of the house toward the backyard, there is a garage in the rear of the house, like a two-car garage, and it is open. The bad guy is in there.

The officer wearing the body camera is on the left side of the screen. He is the K9 handler. He has his K9 on his right side and his gun in his right hand. They are moving to the left, and as he moves, he gets more of a line of sight into the garage. It is hard to see who is in there. To the K9 handler’s right, another deputy is moving laterally with him. That deputy appears to have a ballistic shield. From what I can tell, I did not see a firearm in his hands. He had a pistol on his side, but he was holding the ballistic shield.

As they move, they see the bad guy. Remember, he has already shot two people, so they have reason to believe this guy is armed. They start giving commands to drop the gun. He does not, and shots start being fired.

During the incident, the K9 handler gets shot. Before he got shot, he seemed to have good target acquisition and a strong stance. I was impressed with how he handled himself. But it looked like when he got shot, his gun went flying out of his right hand to the left. It was almost like he threw it, but I know he did not throw it. I do not know where he got hit or if the gun got hit.

The handler goes down. He gets the gun back. His dog is going a little crazy, but the dog stays right there with the handler, and the other deputies put rounds downrange into the garage to help him out. The handler even gets his own tourniquet out. The bad guy ends up being neutralized.

The deputy was taken to the hospital and is expected to be okay. The male victim died. The woman’s condition was not provided. I do not see where the article says exactly what the outcome was for the bad guy. Commentary on the shooting, Brett?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
It is still unclear to me as well. He lived because the sheriff was talking later about him paying for his actions, but we do not know whether he lived or died. If he dies, he will go to hell, and he will pay that way.

We were at the academy for the last few days, teaching young people how to get a gun out and how to reload a gun. This question always comes up: Do I press the magazine release and hope my magazine falls out, or do I pull the magazine out?

Here is my answer. Metal magazines fall out of metal guns pretty easily. Plastic magazines do not fall out of plastic guns as easily because there is more friction.

Knowing that, we saw video yesterday, and I think it was the same video, where the deputy got shot. He is trying to put another magazine in a gun that already has a magazine in it. He is tapping on it, and after a few times he realizes what he did.

Here is the issue for everybody: you are going to react under pressure the way you have been trained, or the way you have trained yourself. I am not sure that is what this deputy did, but I know this: you are going to react under pressure according to your training or lack of training.

What we focused on yesterday was the fact that he was trying to put a new magazine into a gun that still had a magazine in it. The rest of it is, “bad guy with a gun, you have to take the guy out.” I do not want to call it standard stuff, because nothing is standard in police work, but we have seen this kind of stuff before.

That is my take on it. If you train a certain way and it is not a good way, you are going to do it. That is called a training scar. You have to be retrained to get rid of that training scar. You have to open up that wound and be retrained the right way.

When we started teaching up in Pasco, Hernando, some of the Tampa guys said, “Oh yeah, we know all about the Tampa twist.” I said, “What are you talking about?” They said, “You Tampa guys press the magazine release and flick the gun.” I said, “I have never heard of such a thing.” But they called it the Tampa twist.

We teach our kids in the academy: reach up, grab that magazine, and pull it out. You can shake that gun all you want, but you cannot guarantee it will come out unless you pull it out.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Good point. I know you usually charge for this. Are you on the clock or something? Are these billable hours?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
Just watch your mailbox.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
There you go, guys. Another benefit of watching LEO Round Table live: you get free advice from a guy with a ton of experience.

If you are ready, Captain, let’s go to the next story with a video component. I think everybody is going to find this interesting. We have a K9 one too, which I cannot wait to cover. But first: Chino police release body-camera footage of officers shooting a guy armed with a knife.

Speaker 4 – Video / Incident Audio:
Drop the knife. Now. Get back. Drop the knife now. Drop it now. Drop the knife.

Officers attempted to de-escalate the situation and ordered Johnson to drop the knife multiple times. Johnson refused and chased the victim down the hallway with the knife as she attempted to retreat to a bedroom, at which time an officer-involved shooting occurred. Viewer discretion is advised. Here is footage from the second responding officer.

Drop the knife. Drop the knife.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
This is at rumble.com, This Is Butter. We are in Chino, California. The shooting happened when officers were responding to a domestic-violence call. In the video, you can see the officers enter the home and tell a 29-year-old named Johnson to drop the knife before they shoot him multiple times.

Before they got there, there was a woman inside the home. Someone outside could hear her say, “Do not kill me. Do not stab me.” That neighbor called 911.

The officers get there. When they reach the top of the stairs, Johnson is holding a kitchen knife aggressively toward the woman inside the home. I am curious what you think about how they did because they get to the top of the staircase, and it does not have railings. It has walls. You can go up or down, but you cannot go to the side.

The bad guy is at the top with a knife, and the victim is off to the right, down a hallway. The man says, “Shoot me.” He refuses to drop the knife. Then he runs to his left, which is to the officer’s right. All of a sudden, the officer loses line of sight because he was not far enough up at the top of the stairs.

They end up getting line of sight again and drop him in the hallway. It was difficult to see the line of sight the officer had when he took those shots because the victim was in that backdrop somewhere. The bad guy drops the knife, goes to the hospital for his injuries, and is listed in stable condition. That is how it ends. Captain Brett?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
We get a call: man with a knife and a victim in the house. The officers hear a woman screaming, and it is a blood-curdling scream. They go up the stairs. They see a guy with a knife. So it all adds up, right?

They say, “Drop the knife.” What should have happened after he did not drop the knife was that they should have killed him. But they yelled several times, “Drop the knife.” We have talked about this a million times. How many times do you say, “Drop the knife”? How many times do you say, “Drop the gun,” before you shoot the gun?

They yelled three times. They did not shoot him. He was able to turn and move toward the victim. Their inactivity could have gotten her killed.

Then the department spokesperson says, “The officers attempted to de-escalate.” Stop it. That is such a stupid thing. When there is a knife and a victim, you de-escalate by pulling the trigger.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
It could have ended much differently. As soon as he ran, I do not know how he could have gotten to the woman and stabbed her.

Guys, we are going to our next commercial break. Stick with us. We will be right back.

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Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to LEO Round Table at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are joined by retired Captain Brett Bartlett with Ex Umbris Defense Solutions at exumbrisdefense.com.

Brett, we are breaking down the last use-of-force incident. Can you refresh our audience about what we are talking about, or are you ready to move on?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
Bad guy with a knife. Police go upstairs. We have a victim. They told him to drop the knife, and he did not. No kidding. They told him two more times, and he did not drop the knife. No kidding.

The bad guy is not going to say, “If you tell me six times, then I will drop the gun.” Bad guys do not listen. The spokesperson for the agency said, “The officer tried to de-escalate.” Listen, when there is a knife and a victim, you de-escalate by pulling the trigger.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
There are people who will watch that video and say the guy was not close enough to the cop to be a threat. But you cannot rely on the distance portrayed in a body camera. I was more worried about the victim at that point.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
Let’s talk about the officers coming up the stairs. What if the bad guy had chosen to run forward and attack the officer on the stairs? Where do you typically go when you are attacked? Backward. That officer would have fallen down, maybe hit another officer, and then we have a mess.

Just give a command. I tell people this: do not give a command you are not willing to enforce right away. Do not do it.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
That is why it is important to work for an agency that is going to have your back too. There are guys who work in agencies that would not do this for fear of being prosecuted, whether it is Seattle, Portland, Oakland, or San Francisco.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
I am not buying that. If you are scared, get out.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
They should. They really should. Go get another job. I say that mostly for the guys looking to get into law enforcement. You guys have to be smart. Look at the agency you are going to work for. Shame on you if you do not. You could pay the ultimate price.

Brett, let me give you a choice here. We can cover the UFC thing. It is kind of an interesting story from UFC.com.

UFC and the FBI have partnered together for a historic first exclusive training seminar. The world’s leading mixed martial arts promotion, the UFC, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation announced a historic first-of-its-kind collaboration where current and former UFC fighters will go to the FBI Special Agent Academy in Quantico. This will happen March 15 and 16.

They are hosting an exclusive training seminar for academy students and senior FBI staff from around the world. Two days is not enough to do anything, but hopefully it whets the appetite so they actually get some serious training.

The athletes, along with UFC matchmaker Mick Maynard, are providing insight into how they train for competition, demonstrating specific techniques and tactics, and offering a unique perspective to students as they prepare to enter the field office.

Here is a quote from Dana White: “We have a tremendous respect for the FBI and the work they do every day to protect this country.” He said, “Our UFC fighters are some of the baddest men and women on the planet, and they are heading to Quantico to train the best FBI agents in mixed martial arts. It is an incredible opportunity for our athletes to experience, and we are proud to support the FBI in strengthening their defense techniques.”

Brett, I am not buying it. Tell us.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
How long does it take to become a good MMA fighter? How long does it take to become a good defensive-tactics student?

I have been asked my whole adult career, “Do you think I should go learn some hands-on self-defense?” I ask, “Do you know how many years it takes to become proficient at that?”

If they come up with a good program, if they go to those FBI agents and teach them, and then refresh them three, four, or six times a year, if they bring them onto the mat and do it right, then okay. But they are not going to do that. They are going to come in, toot their own horn, say they gave this to the guys, and walk away from it.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
That is my only hope. I hope it whets the appetite because you are right. A two-day class with supervisors taking it? Please. It is going to be tame. There has to be a curriculum. There has to be in-service training where they are going at it.

I cannot teach somebody a physical skill once and expect it to be carried out. You cannot teach them and then refresh them once a year at in-service and expect them to do it.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
Remember all the stuff we were taught? God bless our guys. Jim Diamond was very, very good at his job, but over the years it changed, and then we did not get follow-up. You know what really works? Punching a bad guy right in the nose.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
I was a defensive-tactics instructor, so I have a lot of experience in DT. I taught cops in in-service, and I taught recruits. In in-service, you show them things they were already taught at the academy level.

We controlled what we taught people because we wanted them to take one move that worked really well for them. They may not be good at throwing, or maybe at a gooseneck come-along, but they might be really good at an arm bar. Especially for smaller, lighter officers, give them a tool that will work well for them.

There are techniques I am not especially good at, like close-quarter elbow strikes. I have never really felt comfortable doing those. But with other techniques, yes. Teach them a technique they can become really good at. They do not have to choose from five different techniques. Give them three that they are excellent at.

I do not like guys going out and getting martial arts training because it can conflict with what you have already taught them. The first time we teach, like in Tampa, you do not punch a bad guy unless it is a life-and-death situation. You do not hit a bad guy in the face or head with your strong hand, your weapon hand. You do that with your reaction hand.

But you have a guy in martial arts who suddenly gets a guy in a choke or a carotid restraint because that is what they teach him. You do what you train to do. You do not want people teaching something different from what your agency teaches. If you have a defensive-tactics program, only take the defensive-tactics training unless you are advanced enough to turn things on and off in a fight.

You do not want guys doing a fireman’s carry and throwing people, and then you are liable. If you are going to pick a technique, pick a simple technique, but you cannot do it once a year. It is impossible.

We have Pierce County deputies, but let’s cover the vehicle on the trailer. Which one?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
The PIT. I have never seen anything like that.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
All right. Here we go. Rumble.com, This Is Butter: police cruiser rolls over after a PIT maneuver while it is stuck on a trailer during a chase.

We are in Harrison Township, Ohio. Cincinnati police released new dash-cam video of a multi-jurisdictional police chase that came to an end in Harrison Township on Saturday.

The suspect led police on a chase across Hamilton County after they attempted to do a traffic stop in Norwood at 4:29, almost rush hour. Authorities say the suspect, identified as Aisha Harris, had outstanding charges for felonious assault and possession of weapons while under disability, leading Norwood police officers to initiate the stop.

As police proceeded to do that, officers say Harris fled the scene. Multiple police departments and agencies responded and pursued over a span of 90 minutes, an hour and a half, while the vehicle went west into Indiana. Before long, police say Harris looped back into Ohio. The chase came to an end near the Ohio border in Harrison Township.

In the newly released dash-cam video, just over 30 seconds long, we see the final moments of the chase. Harris’s vehicle is a white SUV with a flatbed trailer behind it. Somehow, a police cruiser ends up on top of the trailer.

A separate police cruiser hits the suspect’s vehicle. When he PITs the suspect, the trailer jackknifes. The cop car that cannot get off the trailer flips sideways over and over again, and then the bad guy’s SUV, which is pulling the trailer, goes head-on into a tree.

Brett Bartlett?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett:
First off, I am watching the video and putting myself in the place of the officer who is stuck up on the trailer. He must be saying, “Do not hit me. Do not hit me.” I have never seen anything like that.

He is on the flatbed trailer. Everybody needs to watch the video. The pursuing officer drives up—not on purpose—onto the flatbed trailer. Now he is in the chase. He is the one being chased.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Great point. Captain Bartlett, thank you so much for being on the show. Another great show with the captain: Ex Umbris Defense Solutions at exumbrisdefense.com.

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