Death, Deportation, and Disclosure: Law Enforcement Debates Power, Politics, and Public Trust

Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host. He identifies himself at the beginning of the program, introduces the stories, reads the reported details, manages the commercial breaks, and closes the episode.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist. The host introduces him as a retired police chief located in Colorado. He provides commentary on the reported death, the ICE shooting, pardons and deportation, incarceration policy, press freedom, and national-security disclosures.

Speaker 3 – Prerecorded Advertisement Voice. This label covers the Galls, Compliant Technologies, and GunLearn sponsor messages.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

Welcome to LEO Round Table at LEORoundTable.com. My name is Chip DeBlock and I'm your host for a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And you recognize them. We've got a Dr. Joel Shults, retired polICE chief. He's in the Colorado area. Still, will not give us his exact location of the bunker, but he is hiding out there somewhere. So thanks for being on the show. Chief, I appreciate it. It changes his look while we're talking live on the air. This is just incredible. And you guys have witnessed it. If you're watching the video portion of the show, a shout out to our sponsors, you know, Galls is our title sponsor. Don't forget that discount code.

It's RADIO15 to get 15% off your next purchase. We've got our satellite sponsor, CompliantTechnologies.com. We also have GunLearn.com, MyMedicare.live and TwoBells.com. They built a new online store at Leo roundtable. And you know, a show that Brian Burns for the Tampa Free Press. Thanks for caring the content. Brian also read, Detroit with FormerLeo.com and our very own Travis Chinn with LawOffICEr.com. Thanks to all those entities. And if you guys are looking for a place and how to watch the show regularly, you know, on virtually every major podcast platform, including Spotify and Apple iTunes, the show is called Leo roundtable. And we're also syndicated nationally on 47 radio stations and counting across the country.

We’re on social media on Rumble, YouTube, Facebook, X, formerly Twitter, true social, the list goes on and on the best way to do it. Go to our website, LEORoundTable.com. And that'll tell you all the outlets that were on links to everything dates, times of the radio stations and the call signs, all that good stuff. So please check it out. Now, chief, if it's, if it's okay, I'm going to go in and run through the run through the stories that we're going to kind of whet the audience’s appetite here for the audience. the first one we've got FBI steps in after Senator Lindsey Graham, dying suddenly at 71 years of age following a Ukraine trip. And you know, I think that took everybody in the States by surprise, that story.

We've also got Democrats meltdown over ICE shooting while their own shutdowns blocked body cameras. We will explain that. And then the fetch target reporters after Air Force One security leak, we've got more leaks from the media. And we got a carjacking suspect, fatally shot at the end of a high speed chase by Baltimore polICE offICErs. We got Phoenix polICE offICErs shooting a 22-year-old when he runs towards a man with a knife. We got a screaming female in the background on that one. And then we got a listen to this, Georgia cop charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of a teenager after accidentally discharging his gun during the arrest. Yeah, that's disappointing.

And then a suspect killed surprise offICEr injured when they both are struck by vehicle during a foot pursuit. So yeah, we got a lot to cover. So, uh, any words before we get started chief, are you, are you feeling 100% today?

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

Well, one question I had. Did you change the, uh, the settings on that, on that theme song? It seemed like there was more base and more drum at the beginning. Is that new or am I just more sensitive to it since I got my drum set?

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

Oh, you got your drum set? Well, in all honesty, it's funny. You should notICE that because I've notICEd something and I didn't know if I was the only one. So I swapped out my mixer board. So I, um, I have redundancy with what I do. So I've got, you know, three or four Alienware computers. I've got two of these mixer boards. Just in case anything goes bad and sure enough, the power switch on my other one went bad. I couldn't turn it on and it's been going bad for a while. But I mean, I played with it for like 10 minutes on all I said, okay, I'm taking out the old one. And it sounds when I play the music and all the music on this one, it sounds like it's got more up to it. It sounds like the volume's higher and everything.

So, uh, now that you say that, you may be on the something. I don't know why that is, but you're probably right.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

Yeah, I like it a little bit better now. But anyway, I'll do this. Well, uh, let's go to start with this first one then. So FBI steps in after Lindsey Graham die suddenly at 71 years age years of age, which is, which is young following his trip to Ukraine. Now, this is at the Tampa Free Press at TampaFP.com. You know, the surprising thing here is when I read that the FBI has stepped into assist local authorities with this unexpected sudden death at only 71. Now, I know that I think that since that time, I, I, we've got the cause of death. They did a very quick autopsy, but I don't know how thorough the autopsy was.

So the FBI's involvement might still be there, but the offICE of Graham who represented the South Carolina since 2002 announced early on Sunday that the senator passed away from a brief and sudden illness. And they called 911 for a cardiac arrest incident and at his house at about 8 30 PM. So in the evening, FBI director, Kash Patel wrote on X that the agency was assisting local authorities and has made every, uh, necessary, uh, necessary resource available to them, which is, which is great. I, uh, hopefully that'll work better than the last sheriff out West that didn't like the FBI and any, any room in his own investigation.

Now, due to the outspoken nature of the lawmaker and look, we're going to mention a couple of things that people are probably unaware of. Uh, many people, including those that were closely with Graham or skeptical about the nature of his death. It just didn't make sense. He seemed like he was healthy and stuff. Uh, he was a vocal supporter of the US involvement in conflicts abroad, including the Russia-Ukraine war and Iran-related conflicts. And as recently as July the 4th, um, during the break in Washington, DC, the recess, he went to Ukraine and met with President Zelenskyy, visited a drone facility that was later destroyed by the Russians.

He's also in the past been targeted by the, uh, Iranian regime and they even were like jumping up and down an excitement over, over his recent death. And we've, um, you know, I guess in another article, it said that he had recently, um, in the final hours before this, this went down, he didn't feel good. And people were telling them to get immediate medical help and he was blown it off saying, you know, look, I got a lot of stuff that I'm, that I got to get done. I'll worry about it later. And according to accounts from Axios reporter, Barak Ravid, he Graham said that he would wait until Sunday morning to see a doctor because he didn't want to miss a scheduled appearance on NBC's Meet the Press.

And he even made a comment saying, Hey, I can't die now. I got, you know, listing off all the things that he had to get done. Well, a few hours later, um, you know, he ended up dying and they've announced now the cause of death after that initial autopsy was aortic dissection. And it has something related to cardiovascular disease or the heart of the arteries from what I read, uh, due to his age, although he's not that old, but I don't know if he did cardiovascular training or anything like that. So, um, so that's, that's what we have, uh, comments, chief Schultz.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

Well, thanks for saying he's not that old. I'm not quite there. He asked our, well, our definition of old person and premature death is on a sliding scale. You know, the closer you get the, right, that is true. And I was here, you've been so young, that's too bad. Um, and people die unexpectedly for hidden health issues, you know, all the time, um, not all the time, but uh, it's not unusual. You see athletes that, that dropped down on the court and, you know, those kinds of stories. However, when you have a high profile, um, and just in a high profile internationally, um, uh, individual like this, like, like the senator, um, I think it's very appropriate for the FBI to investigate and to, and to, to look for things.

The, um, you know, the political intrigue that goes under the surface that we just don't know about, um, you know, and, I don't, I don't want to rely on spy novels and detective stories. Um, but assassination of political enemies has been a historical tool of control, um, probably since the dawn of man. So it, it, it's something that we need to be sure and eliminate as a possibility. We know that Russia has been involved in, in, uh, uh, killing enemies, not just on the battlefield, but in the spy world and then the political world. And so to eliminate that, I think it's very important that, you know, what, what immediately came to my mind, remember when, uh, uh, Supreme Court JustICE Antonin Scalia, um, passed away.

He was a little older, but it was still kind of unexpected and sudden, I think he was at a resort or something down in Texas.

And even at the time, and this has been back during the Obama, the last year of the Obama administration, um, I thought, man, I, I hope they're looking into this, you know, maybe I've read too many, um, Tom Clancy novels or something, but, uh, you know, I thought, man, you, you've got a, you've got to look into that because Obama would have had, no, we're getting off the subject of Lindsey Graham, but, um, Obama had the option, you know, the opportunity to get a Democrat, uh, leaning justICE, uh, in the course of Republican Senate at the time, uh, blocked it and we ended up getting, uh, Neil Gorsuch instead of, uh, Obama who had already nominated Elena Kagan and uh, Sonia Sotomayor.

So, um, you know, we, we, we've got a little mystery that kind of surrounds these kinds of things, and I think the American public, uh, deserves some, some comfort from answers. Um, and to remind everybody that, uh, our candles do not get any longer, they get shorter and, uh, you know, you better get ready. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's part of life. So anyhow, um, uh, it's certainly a loss, certainly a loss and no one expected him, you know, to, uh, to go this quickly. And, uh, so, you know, he's one of these, he's one of these, uh, Trump supporters that used to be a, uh, a Trump critic. Oh, yeah. Um, and yeah, he said, you know, he was unfit for offICE and he kind of were backed away from support, uh, after January 6th.

So he's been up and down lately. He's been, you know, pro-SAVE Act and aligned with Trump and Trump was, you know, expressed great sadness to lose a partner. Um, he was still one of the old-school politicians and knew how to make compromise and make decisions, you know, with, with the reality politics, uh, uh, present. Um, so it, but we see a lot of those in the Trump history, even, you know, even JD Vance, uh, yeah, Steve Bannon in and out, you know, pro against, uh, so he's got a very interesting history, but he was definitely, uh, he was definitely, um, on Trump's team during the last year's of life. I agree. Well, um, I've gotten up to what they have a type for the next story.

So our next one, we're going to be talking about the Democrats meltdown over ICE shooting while their own shutdowns blocked body cameras. This is, this is like, this is like for justICE, you know, I'm gonna, it's an RVMNews.com and a companion article at, at Tampa Free Press at Tampa, epi.com. And, uh, you know, we've, we've got a commercial break coming up. It's our first one. So I'll get to this in just a second. But just story, you don't want to mess. You probably have not heard about this ICE shooting yet. There is not a video that I'm more of that's been released yet. Although if there isn't, it'll be coming soon. Stick with the skies will be right back.

Speaker 3 – Prerecorded Advertisement Voice::

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Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

Welcome back. LEO Round Table at LEORoundTable.com. The law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock. I'm your host. And we're joined by Dr. Joel Shults, retired polICE chief all the way from Colorado. So thanks for being here, chief. You know, we left off kind of whetting the appetite on our next story. We've got it's a rvm news.com and Tampa Free Press at Tampa fp.com. Democrats melt down over ICE shooting while their own shutdowns blocked body cameras. And we're talking about money. So on July the 7th, 2026, 650 in the morning, Central Time, ICE agents to the top of vehicle in the Houston area. And they're targeting an illegal immigrant for an arrest. So we know he's a criminal because he's an illegal immigrant automatically.

And we're in Houston, Texas. So the driver Lorenzo Segovia Araujo. He's a Mexican national unlawfully entered the United States. And he chose to play. So he rams an ICE vehicle, refuses multiple commands, and attempts to run over an offICEr and response the offICEr fires himself defense. You guys will be amazed at the at the at the outcry from some people on this one. Sounds cut-and-dried, right? Emergency servICEs they get called right away. Our bad guy transported to the hospital where he later dies. And we've got the Mexican president Claudia Sheinbaum. She ignores everything I just told you. And she turns us to it like an international incident.

She claims the man's only fault was not having papers and conveniently leaving out that he tempted to run over a federal offICEr. She accused the United States of a history of oppressing migrants. And as though attempting to arrest a violent offender is oppression. And then we got the Democrats in Texas to sign in the join the circus according to the article, state representative in U. S. Senate candidate James Talarico. He posted a somber social-media statement that left out the reality of the confrontation he described or bad guys a father or three living peacefully in the Houston area for decades, fatally shot while on his way to work. That's how he framed that he demanded a full and independent investigation.

What he left out was that Araujo rammed the federal vehicle and threatened an offICEr's life. This narrative made it sound like ICE agents opened fire on a commuter without cause. And then of course we go to the Democrats. If that's not enough, we have Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia of Texas delivered an even more embarrassing take. And you know, it's written pretty well here at RVM, Red VoICE Media. She stole the ICE agents for not shooting the car’s tires instead of the driver. She declared quote, apparently, ICE has learned nothing if they really think a car is going to hurt somebody. I mean, even a kid will tell you, you shoot the tires, you don't shoot the driver. Unquote. This is what this ignorant Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia said.

She's going to get someone killed if anyone listens to what she's saying. I'd love to see her strap on a gun belt. I know what you guys think of it, but I'm trapped on a gun belt and put on a uniform and go out and try and try doing that and see how long she's able to survive on the street. So, that said, Chief Shults, the floor is yours.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

Well, she's right. Any child will tell you that. And any grown up that's done any research will not tell you that. And this is, you know, we hear this all the time. And my heart goes out to the families and even to the victim. I'm not sympathetic to people who try to hurt offICErs. But, you know, he'd been working in Houston and supposedly working on his citizenship. And, you know, 30 years in country. But the, you know, there's always an elevation to St. Hood of anybody that gets shot by the cops, you know. And so, and of course, the polICE don't have the opportunity to have the open mic like these politicians who are compelled to take a certain posture.

The facts are irrelevant because, and even when the facts come through in favor of the offICEr, if indeed it does come in favor of the offICEr and the government action, that fact, that decision will not matter anyway. It's not going to keep anybody from rioting. It's not going to keep any politicians from trying to defund. It's not going to get the activists satisfied and say, well, you know, in this case, I was probably the only thing the offICErs could do. So, and we can't, we can't necessarily postulate 100% that the offICErs were correct. But to merely describe this as these the press framed it as a man's shot as he was commuting because he didn't have papers.

It was even reported, and I'm sure you notICEd this, that they actually got the wrong person. Well, if I understand right, they were headed to a suspect's house. This guy happened to pass by the ICE agents and the agent said, hey, that looks like our guy. And so, they were going to make a contact and the guy that they intended to contact had some violent tendencies. And so, they you're accountable for what you know or what you reasonably believe at the time to make a decision. And again, making a broad statement, you have to look at the offender or the alleged offenders actions and behavior before we can examine the thoughts and behavior of the offICEr.

And if indeed, the vehicle was being used as a weapon and if indeed there were lawful commands being given. And I again, we don't have body cam video and you know, you point out the irony of that. The activist said, hey, we need body cameras and the administration said, you're right. So, let's let's put body cameras on. And then Congress said, now, we're not going to give you any money for about half a year. And so, to scream about the lack of body cameras, you know, it's the classic case at viewpoint one finger, you've got four pointing back at you just it's just very frustrating. So, I'm sorry for this guy. I'm sorry for the family. I'm sorry for the offICErs ahead. Take that kind of action.

I'm sorry that the politicians can't stand back and just try to keep people calm until the facts are in. So, it's a tragic situation all around.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

Yeah, I hope people hold, you know, if you can't say anything intelligent, please don't say anything at all to our politicians. And I hope that they hold people, you know, accountable. You know, it's really, it's really pretty embarrassing. So, but no, thank you. Well, let me ask you that in the bad press that you may have gotten.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

I don't know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

Yeah. But if there's something on the front page that's wrong, but grabs attention, and there is the rare correction, it's going to be on page 18 of Section C of the newspaper for those that still read the statement.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

Correct. No, you're absolutely right. And of course, when you are under scrutiny, right or wrong, you're just praying for the next guy to be in the limelight that plays you in the news, right? So that's what everybody's working for. Yeah, it is. Right. All right. Not the line. For a second commercial break, guys, you don't want to miss what's coming up next. We'll be right back.

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And chief, are you ready to go with the with the Federal authorities overrule a Minnesota pardon? You ready to roll that one? Because I had to imagine. Yeah, I think it's I think it's an important adjunct to the story that we just talked about. There is a relation. You're right. Yeah. so it is, you know, it's by our second news. It's Tampa Free Press. You know, the first one we covered, Democrats melt down over ICE shooting while their while their own shutdowns blocked body cameras. And that was rvm news.com, which stands for red voICE media. And I'm glad that she pointed out that the whole reason why they weren't wearing body cameras is because the Democrats, you know, shut down the government, shut down funding.

And they didn't have the money in order for the rollouts. Although last I heard was that they anticipate within about two months that the rest of those body cameras will be rolled out. But it's the Democrats’ own fault. And they're the ones that are complaining about this justified shoot, but also related on my TampaFreePress.com. You know, the companion article this it's it's it's related, but slightly different. Feds overrule Minnesota executive pardon to deport convicted child sex offender. Now I have to imagine most people heard about this. There are some other players involved, which I suspect most people are unaware of because they've been kind of focusing on the on the governor.

But a multi level political and legal battle has culminated in the deportation of this of this bad guy, Tou Lou Vang, 42 year old Laotian national federal agencies intervened to strip his legal status despite a recent state-level pardon of it seemed apparent. Probable. And maybe an attorney won't maybe use the word allegedly that he was pardoned to avoid being kicked out of the country, you know, by ICE. But our bad guy, Vang entered the United States as a refugee back in 1994. Later convicted in Minnesota. Gee, who's the governor there Tim Walz right Minnesota back in 2006. First degree criminal sexual conduct involving a girl guess how old 10 years old.

Can you guys believe that this guy is the one being pardon because they likely don't want him to be kicked out of the country. And so according to court records from his 2005 arrest, they initially described the abuse to investigators as a minor thing. Remember, it first-degree criminal sexual conduct with a 10-year-old girl. He described as a minor thing attributed to foreign cultural norms from where he's from following his conviction. A federal immigration judge issued a final order of removal in October of 2006. And that's a long time ago. And though the deportation went unexecuted for nearly two decades due to historical difficulties and deporting individuals to Laos.

Now the case resurfaced on June the 10th with a three member Minnesota board of pardons. And who is on that board? It is the governor Tim Walz. We all know we've heard the story. But also attorney general Keith Ellison, you know, it's like a pair of Walz, right? And chief Supreme Court JustICE Natalie Hudson, they voted unanimously to grant Vang a pardon. This bad guy, the illegal that was arrested for the sexual conduct, you know, with the 10-year-old girl who said that it was a cultural norm for where he came from. The decision drew sharp condemnation from federal agencies or Republican lawmakers in the general public who argued that the action was an attempt to shield a violent offender from imminent deportation. There you go.

Chief Shults.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

You know, I don't want to turn this into a partisan thing. But one of the divides that we see in politics and obviously, you know, not all of people who voted or support in general Trump were in favor of his pardons. I certainly wasn't happy about the January 6th wholesale pardons. But so pardons are now political hot topic. This guy is sentenced if he, you know, really the victim was okay with it. And the facts show that he was, you know, going to be a good citizen and all of that kind of stuff.

Then maybe a commutation, maybe a reduction of sentence, maybe some type of supervised release, but a pardon, which as, again, to the audience that may not know the difference between a commutation, a pardon, commutation says, okay, you're done with your sentence, even though you're legally obligated for another 10 years or whatever. We'll cut it. You go home right now. But they still have that on the record. A pardon says it's as if you had never done it. So he walks away with, without a record of being a sex offender, a sex offender against a 10-year-old. There's, there's no rational justification that I think most of us can have in our mind to, to completely erase this guy's record as a sex offender with a, with a small child.

So it, it really smacks of politics. Now, obviously, if, if this deportation order that had been pending for two decades for 20 years, spanning Democrat Republican administrations, that's inexcusable. I will say if, you know, there's no law that says if you're going to deport somebody, you got to send them back to where they came from, because there are countries that don't want to take them. And there are countries that say, you give us a million dollars ahead, we'll take the sex offender and we'll let them live in the population, see how long that lasts. And, you know, the irony is that this guy was admitted as a Laotian because of the politics of, of the day when he was allowed to come over.

And so it was a compassionate immigration policy that allowed refugees to come over. You know, we had a lot of the Vietnamese long, long Laotian. I don't know exactly what era this, this was from when it came over. So the sluggishness of the system and the political implications of saying, we're basically going to give the middle finger to the feds by pardoning this guy. Therefore, he won't have a criminal record. Therefore, he's not eligible for deportation on that basis is clearly not fact based in my view.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

Yeah, I've really, really disappointed. You know, I, it's, you know, there is, there is, there is something that maybe you can explain this to me, Chief, there is something that has bothered me for a while. We do have some, some of our most serious offenders that I'm talking murder rape that they will look, the choICEs are even with the conviction, yeah, we can put these guys in if we're not going to execute of it, it's not an executable offense. You know, then we're going to house them in jail for maybe decades and we're going to put the bill for it. Or we could, we could expel them from the country, right? We can deport them.

We have a tendency for the most serious cases to go ahead and house those guys and they keep them in the prison system here. I know we're paying for it, but we're not deporting them running the risk of them coming back in undetected and committing more crimes. Where, where do you sit on, on that and how do you make sense of all that as far as when you have to, when you have a, you know, a moral ethical obligation, you know, do you, but you've got these battles to where are we going to pay taxpayer money to keep this guy in the prison system or are we going to kick him out of the country? What do you, what do you think?

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

An interesting figure, and I forget exactly the number, but we actually save money by getting offenders who are likely to reoffend. We actually save money by housing them until they're dead, instead of letting them then wreak havoc out on the streets. There, there are economic costs to having a repeat offender out there. Now, whether child sex offenders can be rehabilitated is, I think, continues to be an open question. The general public consensus is, no, once a pedophile, always a pedophile, and I think most of us probably lean towards that.

So, regardless of the cost, if we keep another 10-year-old girl from getting assaulted, and how does that play out for the next 70 years of that person's life and their family and their children, you know, it's not a cost to incarcerate some of these offenders. It's the prICE we pay as an investment in preventing future victims.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

Okay, that's a good way to put it. So thanks for breaking this. See, that's why we have you on the show when we talk about these deep topics. So, this is a perfect news.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

I keep all my college textbooks and I read them every week just to keep up.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

So, you know, that would be a good show, a good topic for, I mean, we cover the news, but that would be an interesting show with a lot of different people, with a lot of different opinions. And I'm curious if I think that people of minds and opinions would change. If we all had a big conversation on that, because everybody's got their own opinion on, you know, but the threshold level is on keeping these guys in country or in the prison system, or, you know, deporting them or whatever. And that's that information, that stat on it being cheaper to keep them in, then having them release them back into society is an interesting one too. So, yeah, that would be a good show to have.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

And the implication when we have somebody from a different culture, do we do we slide our morality or our laws, you know, to the left or the right in order to allow that, particularly in a current American culture that continues to sexualize preteens and teenagers. And we categorize some people categorize instead of sex offenders, they're minor-attracted persons and we need to respect their choICEs, which is frightening. So perfect timing. Thanks, Chief. So much good, deep, important topic though. We're going for our third commercial break guy stick with us. We'll be right back.

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And we've been talking about some pretty deep topics or unless you're something you want to add on the previous topic, cheap, if you're ready to talk about Air Force One and the security leak, that's the next one up unless you want to jump around.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist:

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

No, I'm looking forward to getting to that one. Got to see your stuff going on.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

So, TampaFreePress.com. The important thing for people watching the show is that if you've been paying attention, there have been a number of cases that have come about in recent weeks where media, and I'm talking journalists and reporters, have been challenged by putting some of the stuff in print or through other mediums that they're using like anonymous sources stuff and the information's being challenged or they're being asked to give up their sources. I mean, this is actually occurring today. I can't say that I have a huge issue with it being done in certain circumstances because the damage that could be done without there being a system of checks and balances, it's huge.

So, in this particular one, Tampa Free Press at Tampa Fp dot com. The feds target reporters after Air Force One security leak. So, we haven't had a lot of leaks in this administration. If you compare Trump 1.0 to 2.0, I mean, it's like, it's like there's no comparison. However, the Trump administration issued subpoenas on Friday to several The New York Times journalists. It wasn't the Washington Post this time. It was The New York Times following the newspapers recent coverage of alleged security vulnerabilities on the new Air Force One. Now, according to the publications, subpoenas demand that the reporters testified before a federal grand jury. So, that's got to give you a serious concern in Manhattan.

And that's supposed to happen this coming Wednesday. Federal agents delivered some of the subpoenas. Personally, the claims made by the New York Times regarding the subpoenas have not been independently verified. The newspapers legal counsel criticized the government's actions. Here's what the newspaper said. The appearance of federal law enforcement agencies on the doorsteps of reporters should shock the conscience of any American who believes in the constitution and the freedom of the press it protects. According to David McCraw, the paper's lawyer, and he said this in a statement on Friday.

But I got to tell you, David, if you're given up vulnerabilities of Air Force One and saying specifically that, you know, their missile-defense system was inadequate, and you're in you're risking the life of our president, I got an issue with that too. And I suspect most Americans do. The underlying legal disputes stems from the president's recent travel logistics. It talks about, look, he had international trip involving NATO-related travel and a Royal Air Force base in Southville, in England. He departed on one of the older model Air Force One jets, the old and the new aircraft were both flown to the English base. But the president switched back to the newer plane for a final flight home to the Joint Base Andrews in Maryland.

The sudden transition between the planes occurred during a volatile period in the US foreign policy. There was a ceasefire with Iran, but it had collapsed and now there were airstrikes going on. And Wednesday, the newspaper reported that the mid-trip plane switch, which occurred because the secret servICE had urged the change, a follow-up report published by the paper on Thursday, alleged that the newer Boeing 747-8 aircraft, it lacked certain advance security features, present on the older model. And it specifically, I can't believe they put this in print, specifically pointed to anti-missile capabilities. Both of the newspapers reports relied on information provided by what they're calling anonymous sources. Chief Shults.

Well, this is this is complex. You know, there were security concerns about this gifted aircraft from the very beginning. I mean, how difficult would it be to put in some type of tracking or spy devICE or jam or something. So I know they went over that aircraft with a with a fine tooth comb. And to say that we should be shocked about reporters being issued subpoenas to reveal their source. That's not really that uncommon. And you know, we need to remember that federal grand juries are strictly secret. We obviously wouldn't want to take this process. Oh, oh, yeah, my source is Joe Schmo. He, you know, he works on a tarmac at such and such an airport. So it's it's still, you know, hopefully they can hold it confidential.

And it is it is important that we identify people in very sensitive positions. Where are they getting this information? How they knew, know and how are they how are they giving it away? Why are they getting away? What's their what's their you know, you've done a lot of work with confidential informants. And I don't know how much parallel there is between, you know, a confidential source in the media and having a confidential source that you need to protect and, you know, would mess up a lot of things if they got identified and then they get tangled in the legal system, do they have to be identified? So the person to arrest it based on their information is able to confront their, you know, their accuser.

I don't know if there's a parallel there or not. So it's a, you know, a journalist is going to have to ask themselves the question, where do I stand ethically? Is it worth the story to risk national security? And if it is, is it worth it to risk my career or to being jailed? One of the, I think one of the one of the weaknesses and pettiness of a lot of protest and rights claims, which is fine, is nobody's really willing to pay the prICE. Oh, I got tear gas. I got a rubber bullet in my knee. You know, I have a right to be out here. And that's true. But you know, listen to the consequences. Be willing to suffer the consequences. So I'm curious. I did a lot of research.

I'm probably on the NSA's list now because I was trying to figure out what, what does the original Air Force One and what kind of air defenses do they have? I don't know if they have the capacity to shoot back or whether it's all defensive and evasive kind of stuff. It's pretty standard air defense on military air. So I'm not answering the question. You know, is this a bad thing or good thing? But it, but it's really complex.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

Yeah, I wonder, you know, and there are some correlations between, you know, the confidential informants. But you know, you can always get you can always get called on the carpet. You know, you can always, I mean, whether it's a journalist using anonymous sources or whether it's a cop using confidential sources, I mean, you know, we've got folks that have to be registered. They have to be red-flagged if you get some, you know, if they if they prove that they're not trustworthy. And when I say redline, they can never be used again. And you have the document everything. And then information can come out in certain in a controlled environment. They can be compelled. But I wonder what thresholds is there.

I guess for my big, biggest questions is that what information would a journalist come across from a valid source or an anonymous source or whomever someone they knew really well or heard they didn't really know that well, what information would they come across that they just simply would refuse to run with it. They wouldn't they just say, oh, wow, we can't if this is true or that it's not true, either way, we can't we can never put this out to the general public. I wonder what that threshold is or if there is a threshold.

Speaker 2 – Dr. Joel Shults, Retired Police Chief and Panelist::

I think the threshold is, am I going to get a Nobel Prize, Pulitzer Prize or promotion? So, you know, there are different motives for contest informants and they're different motives for people that want to get those stories out there. You know, Pentagon Papers is a classic example. If somebody wants to look back into the history of the 1970s, where, you know, some of those papers about the Vietnam War were confidential and they were released and published by the press, went all the way to the Supreme Court. And journalists have a lot of privilege in our culture because of the first amendment and that's healthy. But, you know, your question, where's the line? Where's the limit? What's the motive? I don't know.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

Why, I know there's other I mean, I know you've got editors and people in charge at these publications that are well, you've got they've got their they've got I know that we referenced one attorney they've got a room full of attorneys because they're so worried they need to be concerned about light building. so I know it's got to run through the chain. Even when I've worked with me in the past, there's a lot of things that hooks that I've had to jump through when they've done stories with me or for me. I've had to answer a lot of questions in order to make sure it met a threshold.

It just seems like that threshold has lowered quite a bit since those days to where there's a lot of things that are coming out that really that really surprised me compared to what I would have seen 20 years ago. Well, I, you know, I would like to see an Air Force one that has full air to air and air to ground missile capacity. I mean, Trump could make his bombing runs over Iran in his own plane.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host::

You're going to get some email on that one. Yeah, I could I could see you're going to they're going to start having two-seater jets now and trouble being one of them. There will be a fleet of them, you know, in the air at any given time, like maybe 12 and he'll be in one of them. Take your pick, you know, but you think he wouldn't do that? You know, he would. Oh, he would do that in a heartbeat. You know, his size is probably the only thing that will limit him. You know, those things aren't really those cockpits from what I understand. Buddy, mine was a fighter pilot and well, I've had a couple and buddies and they're not really built for big guys, you know, so right. Right.

And then when you do the maneuvers and stuff, your shorter guys are, I say shorter, you know, I mean, I'm five seven, but five nine, you know, they're built, their bodies are built better than being able to handle the Gs and the getting the bigger the body pushing blood and oxygen through the body on maneuvers like that. It gets tougher, you know, so hey, we're coming up at the end. Thanks for watching the show. Chief Joel Schultz watches back tomorrow, 12 noon Eastern and you know, we've got, I really cut it, cut it, cut it close here. So let me go in and cover the sponsors real quick before we say our final goodbyes. But again, to our sponsors, thanks for our sponsors show. We've got our title sponsor, Galls.com.

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