Police Staffing Battles, Armed Encounters, and the Risks Behind Split-Second Decisions

Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host. Identified from the opening introduction, where the speaker gives his name and introduces the program.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host / Law Enforcement Commentator. Identified from the host’s introduction and repeated references to Captain Brett Bartlett throughout the episode.

Speaker 3 – Prerecorded Sponsor Voice / Galls Advertisement. Identified from the polished commercial-style copy promoting first-responder apparel and safety.

Speaker 4 – Prerecorded Sponsor Voice / Comply Technologies Advertisement. Identified from the sponsor-read segment describing Comply Technologies and the GLŌVE product.

Speaker 5 – Prerecorded Sponsor Voice / GunLearn Advertisement. Identified from the sponsor-read segment describing GunLearn training and certified firearm specialist education.

Speaker 6 – Video Clip / Officer Voice. Identified from embedded law-enforcement body-camera audio used during the episode.

Speaker 7 – Video Clip / Subject Voice. Identified from embedded body-camera or incident audio where the person being addressed by officers responds or speaks.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome to LEO Roundtable at LEORoundtable.com. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I’m your host. We are a group of law-enforcement professionals who talk about today’s news and issues, but we do it from a law-enforcement perspective.

And you recognize him. Yes, he has achieved celebrity status: Captain Brett Bartlett. That’s right. He is the founder of Ex Umbra Defense Solutions, and not to be outdone, he has 32 years of exemplary law-enforcement experience. That’s right. You heard it here first. Welcome to the show, Captain.

Also, a shout-out to our sponsors. Our title sponsor is Galls at Galls.com. Don’t forget that discount code. Guys, remember this: you will always get 15% off your purchases at Galls.com with the discount code RADIO15, as long as they are sponsoring us. So remember, RADIO15 gets you 15% off at Galls.com.

Also, ComplyTechnologies.com is our satellite sponsor. We have GunLearn.com, MyMedicare.live, and 2Belles.com. They built a new online store for LEO Roundtable, so check that out. A shout-out to Brian Burns from the Tampa Free Press and RadioStPete, FormerLawman.com, and Travis Yates with LawOfficer.com. Thanks to all the agencies and partners for helping make this show happen.

Guys, if you are looking for the show, the best way to find out where we are is to go to our website, LEORoundtable.com. On the top menu bar, it has everything: TV, radio, social media, and podcast information. As far as podcasts, we are on just about every podcast platform known to man, especially Spotify and Apple iTunes, the two biggest. We are also on Rumble, YouTube, Facebook, X, formerly Twitter, Truth Social, and the list goes on and on. Check out those outlets.

Now let’s talk about what we are going to be talking about. Let’s whet the appetite on what you guys have to look forward to.

We usually try to cover a main topic, and we have one. A judge has ordered Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey to comply with police staffing levels. There is a mandate there, and if he does not comply, they are threatening to hold him in contempt of court. That is some serious stuff.

Also, we have Trump tapping law-and-order veteran Lance Schroyer to lead ICE. That is some great news, guys. Then we have Jacksonville police officers who shot and injured a guy with a gun during a domestic-violence call. Then we have another body-camera video from San Antonio, where police shoot an armed wanted man.

We have six arrested after a 350-foot razor-and-acid attack on the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, and they have five or six more people they are hunting for. This is going to get good. I cannot wait. And guess what? There is a little law that Trump enacted during Trump 1.0 saying that if you mess around with a reflecting pool, a statue, or a federal monument, there can be serious federal prison time. These guys are going to be hurting.

We also have a suicidal man shot by LASD deputies when he charges at them with a knife. That did not go too well for him. A St. Tammany sheriff pleads guilty and agrees to resign. Then we have a grand jury indictment in New Jersey involving an officer accused of botching 911 calls that led to a double murder.

If you are ready, Captain, let’s start off with the main topic.

This is from CBSNews.com: “Judge orders Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey to comply with police staffing level mandate.”

Everybody knows that we have had Lieutenant Bob Kroll on the show. He was in charge of the police union, the federation, in Minneapolis. Bob is no longer active. He is taking a back seat and enjoying retirement. I would love to have him on the show talking about Mayor Jacob Frey, because they cannot stand each other.

A judge has ordered Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey to comply with a mandate in the Minneapolis City Charter. It requires the mayor to employ a minimum number of police officers for the community, according to court documents filed on Thursday. This sounds like a safety issue to me.

The Upper Midwest Law Center filed the lawsuit on behalf of two Minneapolis taxpayers and two people who own property within the city limits. They did this in March. It claims that the city, including Mayor Frey, failed to hire enough police officers.

The petition points back to a 2022 decision by the state Supreme Court. That decision appealed part of the district court ruling, finding that the mayor has a clear legal duty under the Minneapolis City Charter to employ at least 731 sworn police officers.

The size of the Minneapolis Police Department is really very similar to Captain Bartlett’s and my agency, the Tampa Police Department. Ideally, they both are about 1,000-person police departments. It would be kind of like Tampa having only 731 sworn officers. That would be dire straits for us.

According to the court order, the lawsuit demonstrates that Frey “violated and continues to violate his duty” under the section of the charter regarding the employment of police officers in the city. The court documents filed on Thursday said the Minnesota Board of Peace Officer Standards and Training counted 649 officers with the Minneapolis Police Department, which is 82 less than the mandatory 731. They still need about 1,000 people. Anyway you slice it, if they have 649 officers, they are about 350 shy of where they really want to be.

Captain Bartlett?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
First, I think Mayor Frey was the original transgender. He is just a girly man. He probably cries at every opportunity. Look at him and that French president. He just has a little hair sticking up.

He was the original knee-taker to the communists. Even if he started right now trying to hire people, he is running up against a couple of different things. First, nobody wants to work there. Second, it is hard to get good candidates. When you get a good candidate, it takes time to train them up and get them on the street.

He may say right now, “You know what? I will do it,” but he may run up against those roadblocks just like every agency across the country is doing now. The interest is still kind of low in being a policeman. Secondly, I do not think he wants to. I do not think he cares. I think defund the police started right there in his office. I think he sits when he pees. That is kind of what I am thinking.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
That is funny.

Talking about this, the city last had more than 731 officers back in 2020. By spring of 2024, former police chief Brian O’Hara, who is nothing to brag about, said the department had lost 40% of its force.

The city boosted starting salaries to try to solve the problem. This is how they want to fix it, Brett. They boosted starting salaries to $90,000 in 2024, with incremental increases since then. It is actually more than that now. The city also poured millions into recruitment campaigns.

Here is what Doug Seaton, president of the Upper Midwest Law Center, said. He is one of the guys who sued. He said, “This is an important step toward restoring accountability for Minneapolis residents.” Well, no. You guys do not get it. You need to fix the problem. Who wants to work there for any amount of money if they could end up sitting in a jail cell?

Rachel Palos, managing attorney for the Upper Midwest Law Center, said, “For the first time in four years, a judge said there will be consequences for the city of Minneapolis if it continues to violate the law.” I am not seeing it.

There is a timeline here. Apparently, Frey has to comply with the mandate by January 4, 2027. If he does not, a trial will be held on April 26, just over a year from now, where he could be found in contempt of court.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
What are they going to do? If he does not hire, let’s say he is two short, are they going to put him in jail because he violated the judge’s order? He could hire any expert witness. He could hire me and you to go in and explain that this is not easy, getting people up and running, getting them useful, and getting them on the payroll. It is just not easy.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
And when you have a mayor, a former police chief, and Governor Tim Walz, and you are sitting at a police agency, I do not know why they need all these extra people, because they are going to have them sit in police headquarters when a support patrol rolls in. They are not going to do anything with the demonstrators. But if the feds shoot somebody, then they will roll them out, because they will want to build a criminal case against the feds who are having to deal with the people because the cops are not getting the job done.

It is just sad. Who wants to work for the mayor?

Pay is not the number-one consideration in job satisfaction. Study after study has shown that. Pay is great. It is wonderful. But if you go to an agency that does not want you to do anything proactively, but pays you a lot of money not to do it, what do you end up with? You get a bunch of grass-eaters, not meat-eaters.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
That is right. They are going to get exactly what they want, which is a bunch of highly paid, underqualified people who hate their job, are not very good at it, and do not want to do it. Their boss does not want them to do it anyway. Their boss just got run off because he is an idiot.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
And he is a parrot for the mayor. They have worse problems. I have no sympathy. For them to think that they are going to be able to solve this problem with the current management, and I mean the politicians who are in there, they need to follow what many athletes say too. If you guys want change, vote for change. That is what Brett is always famous for saying: change it at the polls.

You guys have the opportunity. You have the conch, so to speak. You are in charge. You have the microphone. You have the voting ballot. You can make the changes. Until you do, there is not a lot of sympathy from me.

You guys will continue to be in business on this show because of agencies like yours that just do not stand a chance. I hate to say the armpit, but look at all the things that have happened in Minneapolis, and St. Paul is somewhat adversely affected because of the close proximity. George Floyd, the Derek Chauvin thing, and people still consider that a murder if they are uninformed and have not read Liz Collin’s book or seen the documentary. It is just sad.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
Even if he started trying right now, it is not going to be easy. He is not going to see the inside of a jail for this. He is not going to be held financially liable either.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Brett and I can solve the world’s problems from the microphones. I love it. We want to tell the news from a law-enforcement perspective. At least you guys know, and you will be among the smartest people in the room, because we are talking like it is.

Guys, we are up for our first commercial break. Stick with us. We will be right back.

Speaker 3 – Prerecorded Sponsor Voice / Galls Advertisement:
My family only cares about one thing: that I come home safe.

At Galls, every order begins with a promise made with purpose, stitched for support, packed with pride, answered by dedicated hands, delivering the standard you have sworn to uphold.

We serve more than the mission. We serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safe.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to LEO Roundtable at LEORoundtable.com, the law-enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. Your co-host is Captain Brett Bartlett, founder of Ex Umbra Defense Solutions.

Brett, you are the only co-host of the show. You realize that?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
I have been here since the very beginning. What, 30 or 40 years ago, when we first started doing this?

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Yes, you have. When we travel, you co-hosted at SHOT Show. You had Ted Nugent on the show. I could not even get Ted Nugent on the show, and you got Ted Nugent on the show. I bring the cameras. I am your cameraman.

We had a great time in Dallas. Brett is so cool. He is a great traveling companion. We own different sides of technology. Brett is great with the film and camera stuff, and I am good with the radio and computer stuff. That is my gig. Together, we are a force to be reckoned with, are we not?

The Dallas thing, we are hoping we get to go back with PLASKET for their conference next May, wherever that happens to be. I am hoping they invite us back. We had a good time filming and interviewing a lot of people for them.

If you are ready, we have Tampa Free Press. Trump taps law-and-order veteran Lance Schroyer to lead ICE. What do you think about that one? He recently came out of retirement. It is kind of interesting. He has a lot of qualifications, but it is not somebody we would normally have picked out.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
Usually, they throw attorneys in, and now they are leaning more toward law enforcement to fill these kinds of roles. We all know our borders are an issue, but he has a different role.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Good luck looking him up and finding stuff under that title, because you will be hard-pressed to do it on Google or any of the others.

President Trump announced the nomination of Lance Schroyer, a former Oklahoma state trooper and military veteran, to head ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Trump released the announcement on Truth Social, of course, describing him as a former U.S. Marine and a patriot with real operational experience. The president emphasized Schroyer’s strong track record in uniform, calling him a proven leader with decades of experience locking up the worst of the worst.

There are some tie-ins here because the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security is Markwayne Mullin. He is also from Oklahoma, and apparently they are friends. There is nothing wrong with wanting loyal, trustworthy people in an administration. I love what I am seeing.

Apparently, Mullin recently, at the National Sheriffs’ Association event, called him a good friend of mine and noted that he was being brought on board to help lead law-enforcement efforts.

I think good things are coming. If they can get the SAVE Act passed, and if this new guy starts pounding it, and that recent court order said that President Trump can indeed send the Haitians home, because we have to get rid of unlawful voters. If that does not happen, this crap that happened in New York, electing those several communists, is just going to happen more. You have to kick them out. He needs to jump on it. He needs to go full force to the walls, get them out, and I do not care what the states say. Get in there, do your job, grab them, put them on a plane, send them home, and then go get the next batch.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
Agreed. Agreed.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
I made the mistake of asking people what they are doing for the Fourth of July. I want to touch on this. On Rumble, there is a discussion going on. We have a guy who threw out there that he said dill-pickle pizza with ranch, because we were talking about Europeans coming over here for World Cup soccer.

Apparently, he is saying ranch on the crust instead of tomato sauce, pickles, and then put it in the oven. The pickles are then softened. He has this down to a science, Brett. We may have to try it. We may have to take the plunge and just do this.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
Maybe with HoneyBaked Ham. I do not know. When I went to pick up food, I could not see well through the tears in my eyes. I told the lady, “This may not make it home.” Put a HoneyBaked Ham in front of me and just let me smell it. I am happy just smelling it.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
My mom cannot tell the difference. She likes the regular hams that are really salty, and they are good, but there is nothing like HoneyBaked Ham. Nothing.

Do not get me talking about food. Just out of curiosity, Brett, I am married to a Colombian, so I automatically have to be a soccer lover. The sad thing is I have a Colombian jersey in my closet, but I do not have a USA one. I need to fix that. Colombia and USA are still in it. Are you watching any of the soccer?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
I do not really watch soccer. I think it is a great game. I think it is very physical, and they do a great job. It is just not something I would rather watch than a good IPSC shooting match or something like that.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
As long as they are doing shots on goal, I like it. If it is just a boring game and no one is taking shots on the goal, then it is boring. Some of these zero-zero games can be exciting if there are shots on goal.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
I do not know what that means.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
If they are getting close enough and hitting the ball close to the goal, and the goalie is defending the goal, catching the ball, or deflecting the ball, that is action. But if the guys are staying in the middle of the field and no one is getting close to the goal, then it is boring. When they get close, you have people diving in. I love it.

A lot of the women’s soccer games, especially the female USA team, are often more exciting than watching male soccer. But the World Cup has been exciting so far.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
Years ago, one of the female teams got in trouble because one player kept grabbing another girl’s hair and pulling her to the ground. I thought that was kind of groovy.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
You are going to get some hate mail on that one.

We are coming up on our second commercial break, guys. The next story is a video out of Jacksonville. Police officers shoot and injure a suspect with a gun during a domestic-violence call.

Speaker 6 – Video Clip / Officer Voice:
We just want to talk. Why do you have the gun out? Because they told us that you pointed a gun at them. Listen, all we want to do is talk. Okay? All we want to do is talk. I do not want to hurt you, and you do not want to hurt me, right? I want to know that. We are going to figure out where we are at. If you have not done anything wrong, which is great, you will be on your way.

At this point, here is what we are going to do. Let’s go out here.

Speaker 7 – Video Clip / Subject Voice:
Let’s go out here.

Speaker 6 – Video Clip / Officer Voice:
No, no, no. Drop the gun. Drop the gun now. Get on the ground now. Get on the ground. Get on the ground now. We do not want to hurt you. Stay on the ground. Tase him. Tase him.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
We will talk about that when we get back. We will see. We are going to radio.

Speaker 4 – Prerecorded Sponsor Voice / Comply Technologies Advertisement:
It is time to talk about Comply Technologies at ComplyTechnologies.com. They are committed to providing non-lethal solutions to help officers gain the upper hand safely and rapidly in a humane, low-optics manner, utilizing what they call their CD3 technology, which stands for conductive distraction and de-escalation device technology.

Their flagship product is called the GLŌVE. It has not only helped officers tens of thousands of times, but they have actually had over 250,000 deployments. No injuries. No deaths. It is an amazing statistic. They have achieved non-lethal standards in an arena that predominantly can only offer less-lethal results.

When it comes to weapons retention, transitioning to a sidearm, or transitioning to a conductive energy weapon, the GLŌVE at ComplyTechnologies.com has virtually eliminated weapons confusion.

Stay ahead of the game with Comply Technologies and the revolutionary CD3. Hundreds of agencies are supporting it nationwide. Take it from me: when it comes to safety, this is one of the most common-sense, hands-on solutions to ever come along.

Go to ComplyTechnologies.com today and tell them that Chip and Brett sent you.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to LEO Roundtable at LEORoundtable.com, the law-enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are joined by co-host Captain Brett Bartlett.

We left off talking about Jacksonville. This is from Rumble.com, from This Is Butter, our favorite law-enforcement video channel.

Guys, when we do a live show, we do not realistically have the capability of showing you the video live. Too many things can go wrong. We produce two shows, basically five days a week, for a total of 10 shows every week. The live shows are Monday through Friday during the lunch hour on Eastern time, 12 to 1 o’clock Eastern. Then we produce a version of that live show and embed every single video that we talk about. We put pictures of the good guys and bad guys as we talk about them. That produced version comes out the very next day, Tuesday through Saturday at 9 o’clock in the morning on our Rumble channel. That is really one of the best ways to watch the show.

In Jacksonville, Florida, on June 7, the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office, also known as Jacksonville Police because they consolidated, had officers arrive at a home because of a domestic-violence call involving a firearm. They said 22-year-old Kayan Atkinson pointed a gun at someone during a domestic dispute and threatened the victim.

Officers arrive to defuse the situation. They command Atkinson to step out of a shed. There is body-cam footage involving all this. The body cam picks up when officers and Atkinson are standing outside. There is a lot of back and forth. The officers are trying to defuse it, saying, “All we want to do is talk.” He says, “Why do you have a gun pointed at me?”

They go back and forth trying to get him to calm down. Finally, Atkinson tells the officer, “Let’s go out here.” He walks toward the street. The officers have distance, and the officer has a gun pointed at him. The kid walks behind the house and out of view of the officers. Now they have to run around the side of the house and go through a gate.

Someone decides to go with a Taser because they do not really have him quarantined. He can still move. Someone goes Taser, but it does not work. Then they see that the kid has a gun. About the time the officer yells for less lethal again, Atkinson goes for the gun, and they end up having to shoot him.

It said that they had previously had eight mental-health-related calls at that home before. The guy survived. They only injured him.

Brett, you do not miss any of this stuff, but there were so many rounds. It was like everybody lit up on this kid. Maybe it was just the bullets hitting the dirt around him when he went to the ground, but even when he is down, you see dust and smoke. How in the world this kid survived that, I have no idea.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
What I noticed, and we have been talking forever about this, is that police officers talk way too much. They repeat commands. They get in a goofy loop, and they repeat commands, taking away brainpower by talking to bad guys who are not going to listen.

One of the officers yelled, “All we want to do is talk.” I wrote that down as soon as I heard it. I thought, wow, why not put that on the side of every police car in the country? That is going to be our motto: “All we want to do is talk,” because you are so good at it. You talk over and over and over again.

How about this? Give a command and shut up. Experts call that the goofy loop. Another officer gave what we call beta commands. He said, “We do not want to hurt you.” When you say that, what does it tell the bad guy who is blowing up with the police? It tells him he can get away with it because they are going to hesitate.

They should give an alpha command, which is, “I am going to shoot you.” Then there is no doubt about what is going to happen.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
I have a question for you, Captain. I understand what you mean with the alpha command. You said something like, “I am going to shoot you,” or something along those lines. But what if you are not an alpha? How does that come out?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
It will sound like, “I do not want to hurt you,” or, “You do not want to do this,” or, “All we want to do is talk.” Give a command and shut up.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Would it sound like, “Put your hands up, or I am going to shoot you,” or, “I am going to punch you next time I see you”?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
That is what it is like.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
I have a better one: “Put your hands up, Captain will shoot you.”

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
I like that one.

They never interview the bad guy. They never ask this question: “Did the officer’s words have any effect on your decision?” Was there some point where it got so tiring that you just wanted to quit listening and give up?

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Should they start doing exit interviews with bad guys?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
They should. Any bad guy who has been the subject of a police shooting or a resisting incident, why not talk to him?

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Okay, he is dead. That is one reason.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
I understand that. But ask the ones who are not. “We saw that you were running. We yelled 20 times for you to stop. Did our multiple commands have any influence on your decision to keep running?” I would love to hear what they say.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
The sheer factor. If we are lucky, only 25% to 30% of our shots land anyhow, so there is a good likelihood we are going to be interviewing a lot of people.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
That is fine. They never ask the end product, the receiver of our benefits, “What did you think about us? How did this go for you? If I yelled ‘stop, do not move’ 20 times, but I yelled ‘effing stop, do not move,’ did that make it more serious? Did it make any difference in your decision-making process?”

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
I like it when they get on the radio and inform dispatch, who is miles away, that they are in the process of giving those commands, because that can help. Before the bullet leaves the barrel, they are yelling, “Shots fired.”

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
Why not yell it at roll call and be done with it for the day? “Shots fired.” Okay, good. We got it. They just need to shut up. When that officer said, “All we want to do is talk,” my head shot up. I said, “This encapsulates the problem.” All we want to do is talk, and you are really good at it.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
You know that officer’s last name was Frey?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
No.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Jacob Frey. Get it?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
Pretty good.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Moving along. Thanks for watching the show, guys. Let’s see. We have three minutes before our next commercial break. We have another story with a video component. We are moving to San Antonio, not Florida. There is a San Antonio, Florida, by the way, and I know somebody who lives there.

This is from Rumble.com and This Is Butter: body-cam video shows San Antonio, Texas police shoot an armed wanted man.

Speaker 6 – Video Clip / Officer Voice:
Right here! Come here! Where did I do you? Right here! Right here!

Speaker 7 – Video Clip / Subject Voice:
Oh, my God. My hands. My hands. My foot is stuck.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
In San Antonio, Texas, newly released body-camera video shows the moments a San Antonio police officer shoots a man who authorities say had outstanding warrants when law enforcement confronted him in a West Side neighborhood. This happened last month.

The man is 31-year-old Hector Carino, and he was treated for serious injuries at the hospital and subsequently charged. So yet another bad guy shot by police survived, just like our previous story.

San Antonio police personnel responded on the afternoon of May 29 after someone called saying there was a wanted man in the area. When the officers get there, they end up in the backyard. Carino is there, hiding, and attempts to flee. He jumps a fence, and then there is a foot chase.

Officer Matthew Corey follows the man into a nearby backyard and catches up to him right after the guy goes over a chain-link fence. The officer grabs him by the shirt, and there are some expletives, like what we were talking about, because that always comes up with commands.

The officer is not letting go of the shirt, but he also cannot climb over the fence because he has one arm tied up trying to hold on to the bad guy by his clothing. They are struggling, and the bad guy is trying to get away. All of a sudden, I had to rewind it and use slow motion to see it, the dude produces a gun in his right hand. It is a black pistol. You can clearly see it is a gun.

Thank God the officer picks up on it and verbalizes it. The bad guy is now running away in a wooded area, but the guy still has the gun out. The officer yells, “He has a gun. He has a gun,” and fires at least four audible shots at the bad guy. Carino goes to the ground as he tries to get away.

Carino was wanted on separate felony warrants for possession of a controlled substance, and guess what? Felon in possession of a firearm. He is a prohibited person carrying a firearm. It is not believed that he fired a shot at the cop, but it is unclear whether he pointed the weapon at the officer, which does not really matter. There is no way the officer would have been able to shoot him and neutralize the threat before it happened if he had waited.

Captain Bartlett?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
This is a perfect example of why police officers should be taught, once again, to punch bad guys in the mouth. He is grabbing him, the guy is pulling away, and they are in a wooded environment. Maybe he is having trouble moving. Just punch him in the face. Ball it up and punch him in the snot locker. Knock him out.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
That is actually a good point. We do not have enough guys.

Commercial break. Stick with us. We will be right back.

Speaker 5 – Prerecorded Sponsor Voice / GunLearn Advertisement:
It is time to talk about GunLearn at GunLearn.com. Guys, there is some new stuff going on with GunLearn, so if you have not heard it lately, pay attention.

GunLearn is the first and only company to offer a step-by-step program that takes you from your present knowledge level to becoming a safe, accurate, and competent certified firearm specialist.

Now, this certification is worth college credits. Why, you ask? Because GunLearn.com partnered with SmarterDegree and its university partners to attach college credits to the certified firearm specialist program. Even if you earned it five years ago, the college credits still apply.

They have been doing this since 1996, teaching everything that LEOs, meaning law-enforcement officers, need to know about firearms and ammunition to all facets of law enforcement.

You can start today with online training, or you can sign up to attend a live seminar. If you have your own agency, you can actually host a seminar at absolutely no cost. It is an amazing opportunity.

Go to GunLearn.com to get more information and connect with founder Dan O’Kelly. Again, that is GunLearn.com.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Welcome back to LEO Roundtable at LEORoundtable.com, the law-enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I am your host. We are joined by co-host Captain Brett Bartlett.

Are you ready to take on the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, Brett?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
Sure. I am ready to do it.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
I am so excited over the arrest. How this thing happened without people noticing, and they had to go back to video, I do not know. I guess we are at war, even though this is Trump 2.0. I do not expect things like this to be happening, because we should be anticipating this from the other side. I am glad we have some guys hopefully going to do serious prison time over this, at least until we get another liberal president who will probably give them a presidential pardon, because it is a federal offense.

Tampa Free Press, TampaFP.com: six arrested after a 350-foot razor-and-acid attack on the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool. This looked like a $16 million project, and it was a lot cheaper than what they were initially told they would be able to do, from what I understand.

Federal law-enforcement officials have taken six individuals into custody following a significant act of vandalism at the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool in Washington, D.C. Investigators are currently tracking an additional five or six suspects who were captured on surveillance video at the scene.

According to officials, the perpetrators used knives and razor blades to systematically slice through 350 feet of the pool’s newly installed plastic lining. The damage consists of numerous localized cuts, many measuring roughly one foot in length. In addition to damage to the pool structure, the vandals poured acid across the lawn surrounding the monument, killing large patches of grass. There were also poles and other things thrown in. A lot of stuff was done.

Again, the short of it is that we already have six people in custody, and they are looking for five or six additional ones. It sounds like these people did not just show up with razor blades. There was a coordinated effort to get this done. If they catch one of the guys, they are going to end up catching all the guys. They are going to rat. They are going to have loose lips. They are going to put all these guys away.

The suspects face strict federal penalties under a monument protection statute enacted during Trump 1.0, which mandates serious prison time for damaging federal property in the nation’s capital. I love it, Captain.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
I am going to have a T-shirt made that says, “Algae Lives Matter.” You have heard of Trump derangement syndrome. It is alive and well. Maybe it is overhyped by conservatives, but what possible beef could these people have with a cleaned-up, updated, beautiful public monument, a monument to the people?

It is visible. They are out there. It does not take a lot of work, not a lot of planning. They take a razor knife and cut it, and they are done. Not a lot of logistical issues going on. They get arrested, and it looks good to their people. It builds them social credit within their own circles. They are just stupid. Trump derangement syndrome has been proven in this particular incident.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
I love the fact that there may be a 10-year penalty for this. Let’s say we have a dozen. We should come up with a name for the dozen, because they are going to be in jail for 10 years, hopefully, Lord willing, as they should be. We need a catchphrase, because this story is not going anywhere just yet. It is going to be around for a while. What do you have?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
I will work on that. Here is what is going to happen when they go to prison. The old prisoner asks the new prisoner, “Why are you here?” They want to hear murder or robbery. Instead, they hear, “I cut the bottom of the reflecting pool.” Here is what they are going to hear next: “Turn around. This is going to be a little painful.”

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
Even our prisoners, and look, I have always said everybody makes mistakes. What separates us, in my opinion, is that some of us are willing to learn from them and some of us are not.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
That is not a mistake. How many decision lines do you need to cross? “I will go get a knife. I will go there.” There are so many points where you could say, “I should not be doing this.”

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
This was not a mistake. I am talking about some of the guys in prison. These guys in prison are there because of crime, and some of them are not going to change. I almost have more respect for them than for these knuckleheads doing this stupid stuff. I guarantee you a lot of these guys in prison are not going to take it well when these guys get in there.

Moving along here, we have another story with a video component. We are jumping over to Los Angeles County. Rumble.com, again from This Is Butter.

This is in Azusa, California. We have a 38-year-old named Dylan Flamino. He is armed with a knife and ends up being shot by the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.

Speaker 6 – Video Clip / Officer Voice:
Hey, dude. Get on the ground. Get on the ground. He is coming at us, guys. Bring the beanbag. Stay on the ground. Drop the knife. Drop the knife. Get back up.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
This happened on Wednesday afternoon. Authorities say he charged toward a deputy during a confrontation in the Azusa area. The deputy-involved shooting happened around 3:30 in the afternoon in an unincorporated area, according to the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.

Deputies from the San Dimas Sheriff’s Station responded to reports of an attempted suicide. The guy was reportedly harming himself with a knife. When the deputies get there, this guy exits a side gate of the residence while armed, and he refuses repeated commands to surrender the weapon.

When the first body-cam footage starts off, it is really too far away. I do not know why they put that first. I went to the second body cam, where you can actually see what is going on. You have a lone deputy with his car in the street in a residential area. They know what house they are going to, but they also know the guy has a weapon and is harming himself, so they are not going up and knocking on the door right away.

The guy does not care. He is not going to wait for them. He comes out and starts running at the deputy. It looks like this deputy is by himself. The cavalry is down the street with their body cams going too, but they are so far away that you cannot see what is going on. This deputy is really on his own.

The guy with the knife is charging at him, and the deputy puts him down. The bad guy is listed in critical condition. They recovered the knife, which had a three-inch blade. I would hate to get caught with that thing.

Captain Brett?

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
It is not fun. The guy attacked him with a knife. After the shooting, it sounded pretty good. The commands were pretty good. They were checking on each other.

Just do not run at the cops with a knife. And stop yelling commands that do not matter. I asked ChatGPT to give me a new name, not “goofy loop,” and it said “command fixation.” I am going to start using that: command fixation.

When you get into saying the same thing over and over again, command fixation. If it does not work, do something different. When you are in this, as we used to call it 30 seconds ago, the goofy loop, you are just not functioning.

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
On this suicide call, I am glad they did not go up to the door, at least initially, because the same result may happen, but now you have the chance of a cop getting stabbed. I am glad they did not have air service overhead, where now you cannot even get verbal commands. No one can hear what is going on. It is bad for the cops and bad for the bad guy, because even if the guy has a knife and you are trying to verbalize to a cop, they are not going to be able to hear what you are saying.

Things went down pretty quickly. If the bad guy had not come out of the house right away, then they would have had to make a determination: are we going to have to go up there? Do we have a shield? All these other things come into play.

Remember, we are dealing with California. We are dealing with Chief Ralph’s former agency, because he retired there before he came to be chief. I am pretty pleased with it. As far as the outcome, the bad guy wanted to get shot, so there was no altering that, I do not think. He was either going to cut himself to death or get shot by cops.

Remember the police motto: if you run at the police with a knife, then you will get shot.

Speaker 2 – Captain Brett Bartlett, Co-Host:
Life is nothing but “if, then.”

Speaker 1 – Chip DeBlock, Host:
I am with you.

The hour goes by too fast, Captain. Thank you so much for being on today’s show. Captain Brett Bartlett, if you guys want more information on the captain, if you want him to be a guest speaker or want him to run a show for you, it is Captain Brett Bartlett on LinkedIn. Also, Ex Umbra Defense Solutions at ExUmbraDefense.com, so please check that out.

I also want to mention The Wounded Blue, TheWoundedBlue.org, Lieutenant Randy Sutton’s 501(c)(3) that is helping cops out in the world of hurt who are suffering from things like PTSD and other issues. He has a summit coming up in September. If you guys want more information about attending that summit, even spouses are welcome. TheWoundedBlue.org is where you can get more information.

As far as our sponsors, guys, please support them. They go to great lengths to make sure there is good-quality content for you on radio. It is not easy and it is not cheap.

We have Galls.com, our title sponsor. Do not forget the discount code RADIO15. We also have ComplyTechnologies.com. Guys, we have to get the GLŌVE into more agencies. Get ahold of me if you are interested: ChipDeBlock@gmail.com. We have GunLearn.com, MyMedicare.live, and 2Belles.com.

We will see you guys back tomorrow at 12 noon Eastern.