[00:13] Speaker 1: Welcome to Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I'm your host. And we're a group of law enforcement professionals that talk about today's news and issues, but we do it from a law enforcement perspective. And you recognize that we have Chief Ralph Ornelas all the way from California today. So, thanks for being on the show, Chief. Appreciate it. And also, a shout-out to our sponsors. You know, guys, please support our sponsors. They go to great lengths to bring this good-quality content to you. We have our title sponsor, Galls, at galls.com. We also... Uh, we need a cigar sponsor 'cause, you know, Chief Ralph has got that big, old fat cigar in his mouth there. Uh, we have, (laughs) we have Compliant Technologies, our satellite sponsor, at complianttechnologies.com. GunLearn.com. We have mymedicare.live, SafeguardRecruiting.com, our streaming sponsor. And yes, thanks to them, we're streaming, uh, to around a million followers right now on social media.

[00:56] Speaker 1: And we have twobells.com that built our new online store at leoroundtable.com. So, thanks to all these entities for helping make this show happen. Uh, shout-out to Bryan Burns for the Tampa Free Press at tampafp.com. Thanks for carrying our content, Bryan, and getting, getting us on, on, uh, MSN. Also, Ray Dietrich, formerlawman.com, and Travis Yates with lawofficer.com. Thanks to all those entities for helping make this show happen. And now, guys, man, we have got a great lineup for you guys today. Here's what we got. Here's what we're gonna be talking about. Uh, we have breaking news. ICE officers shoot, uh, another one, an alleged illegal alien gang member who weaponized his vehicle. Yep, stay tuned for that one. Then we've got a headlight mistake does not dim the lights on police authority. So, we got a ruling by Ohio Supreme Court. Look, they, uh... You know, the scary part is, is that this has already made it to the, to the US Supreme Court, to SCOTUS.

[01:44] Speaker 1: Ohio Supreme Court had to weigh in, and they had to overturn an appellate court that got it wrong. Uh, I mean, you know, but, uh, but at least the Ohio Supreme Court got it right. So, we're, we're gonna help the, the... Look, we're gonna help the cops out. We wanna make sure that you know what you're, what you're doing is right. And if anyone's not doing it right, we want to make sure that you know. A lot of smaller agencies don't. The word, the, you know, just doesn't trickle down. So, whether we cover that today, or maybe when we get our, our, our, uh, our search and seizure guy on the show. But just wanna make sure that you guys are ready for that one coming up. Trump calls for Fox News to take loser host off the air. When I read this, I'd been saying the same thing about one of these two hosts, and, and I was gonna write a letter to Fox, and I can't believe Trump beat me to it. Uh, but we're gonna be talking about this.

[02:28] Speaker 1: And, uh, and yeah, there, uh, there is a law enforcement component to this. We have Oklahoma City officers. They ki-... Since, you know, cops have great sense of humor, Chief Ralph, but these guys in Oklahoma City, they get suspended. They may even get fired over this April Fools' hoax call that they put out. Wow, it was bad. JSO, Jacksonville Sheriff's Office in Florida, they released a video from a deadly shooting outside a gas station of a 49-year-old bad guy named Michael Cross, so we're gonna cover that one. And also, we got, uh, Louisville Metro Police Department, they got a body cam of a fatal police shooting. It's a woman holding a glass object, um, during a mental health crisis. I think it was the porcelain toilet that she broke and charged at them with. Uh, we got an Illinois mom facing felony charges because she, uh, opened fire to stop an attack on her son. These guys, they closed the door, were keeping her, and she's having to watch through this glass door.

[03:20] Speaker 1: Her son getting beat up and stuff, and, uh, she just wouldn't stand for it. Yeah, she's getting, getting charged. The Greenville County Sheriff's Office on, uh, well anyhow, uh, the Greenville County Sheriff's Office they determined, uh, or determined deadly deputy shooting of a knife-wielding suspect was justified. And if we have time to get to it, man armed inside a Jack in the Box is injured in the shooting after he pointed a gun at deputies. So apparently, the deputies weren't too great a shots there, so we're gonna cover that one as well. Um, so let's go and get started on the, uh, on the very first one here. So, the, the main story, westernjournal.com, ICE officers, they shoot an alleged illegal alien gang member who weaponized his vehicle, and, uh, let's talk about that.

[03:57] Speaker 1: So, this, uh, illegal alien with suspected ties to two murders in two countries was shot by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents in California on Tuesday after allegedly trying to turn his vehicle into a weapon against officers. Does that sound familiar

[04:12] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[04:12] Speaker 1: Yeah. This, the story, uh, you know, the, uh, the story gets better as well. So, listen, listen to this. And after that, um, this guy is identified as Carlos Ivan Mendoza. He's an alleged gang member wanted for questioning in connection with a murder in California, as well as another one in his native land, El Salvador, a- according to KTVU TV in Oakland. Uh, so, yeah, um, really upstanding citizen. I'm sure we can thank Biden for him getting into the country. His condition was unclear on Tuesday. There were no reports of injuries among ICE agents. Fox News, Bill Mulligan, uh, he posted a statement from the acting ICE director, Todd Lyons, about the incident, and Lyons said that th- he laid responsibility for the violence squarely on the illegal alien. I love the fact that these guys are calling it like it is, illegal alien, 'cause other, other outlets, they don't use that, the term.

[05:00] Speaker 1: Uh, calling, uh, Mendoza a member of the 18th Street Gang in Patterson, Director Lyons said that, "ICE agents were engaged in a targeted vehicle stop. As officers approached the car, the wanted gang member, he weaponized his vehicle in an attempt to run an ICE, uh, uh, an officer over. Fol- following their training..." He's backing the officers, "Our officers fired defensive shots to protect themselves, their fellow agents, and also the public." The illegal alien was taken to the local hospital. FBI is on the scene, and, uh, and they're, they're doing the investigation. And, uh, we've also got the... Actually it says they're, they're actually doing an investigation in partnership with the, uh, the Stanis- Stanislaus County Sheriff's Office. I don't know if I got that right or not. And, uh, you know, in Minneapolis, they didn't, they didn't work too closely, uh, you know, with the people over there. They couldn't, you know?

[05:45] Speaker 1: But at least nice to see they're working with the sheriff's office here. I'm sure it's just fueling the fire in Minneapolis, though. And details are sketchy on the shooting. More information is, of course, is gonna come out. But everybody, everybody take note that the new guy in charge is not, he's not, he's not releasing too much information 'cause he didn't wanna caught, get caught with his pants down. He's being careful about what he says, and, uh, and he's gonna vet the rest of the information before it comes out. So, I, I love it. Lieutenant Randy Sutton from The Wounded Blue, thewoundedblue.org. The floor is yours.

[06:14] Speaker 3: Another one bites the dust.

[06:16] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[06:16] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[06:16] Speaker 3: Another one bites the dust, uh-uh. (laughs)

[06:21] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[06:21] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[06:21] Speaker 3: You know, it- it- it's- it's this is not going to, um, this is not gonna stop anytime soon. There... As long as there are bad guys, there are gonna be bad guys that are, that are gonna try and, uh, escape. They're gonna try and hurt the police. And this is gonna continue and unfortunately, the reality is that, you know, the left will utilize everything they possibly can to, um, to weaponize incidents like this and turn it against law enforcement. And this is part of their tactics. So, um, this is gonna be a continual battle. It's not gonna stop and we're just gonna have to deal with it.

[06:59] Speaker 1: Well, well, thank God that these guys, you know, took care of business and they're still, and they're still, they're still willing to shoot guys in cars because after everything that's gone on, you never know when these guys are gonna get apprehended and say, "Ah, crap, there's gonna be another national incident or we're gonna get kicked out and they're gonna send Tom Homan in," or whatever. Uh, Chief Ralph?

[07:17] Speaker 4: Well, first of all, it's great to see, is Randy's face on the screen here, you know, so-

[07:21] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[07:22] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[07:22] Speaker 4: ... and, and I don't know what you're smoking. You can tell me later on off, off, off the show, but-

[07:27] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[07:27] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[07:27] Speaker 4: ... you, you know, you know, you know, um, you know, Randy outlined that but also I wanna share with you is 18th Street gang members, gang members in general, they read the newspapers. They know the lay of the land with these, with these weak politicians supporting them out there and that emboldens them. It truly emboldens them and this, this guy, Carlos Ivan Mendoza is wanted from El Salvador for a potential murder down there. So there's a warrant there and I believe obviously for ICE to stop him, they had also another warrant also, uh, for his, for his arrest. And what pisses me off really, and I think I can say piss, right, on the show? Uh, no, I can't? Okay, sorry about that.

[08:13] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[08:14] Speaker 4: So what really-

[08:14] Speaker 1: Hey, if I get a $10,000 fine, it's going to you.

[08:18] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[08:18] Speaker 4: So, so listen. What annoys me, I'll correct myself a different w- word is this, is that the attorney is saying he's not a documented gang member. Well, you know, how's, how's that, how's his attorney know that? You know, he doesn't, he's not involved in CalGangs or, you know, in the, in the intel system about that, but you know something? I'm glad that the FBI and Stanislaus Sheriff's Department is investigating collaboratively to show transparency what probably took place is that he, he used a weapon as a vehicle to try to injure some of the ICE officers.

[08:52] Speaker 3: Well, let's, let's, let's look at, at how, how do you document a, uh, a gang member when they have destroyed the records of, uh, and the, and the ability for law enforcement to actually keep records of gang members because it's racist. So who... So the lawyer is saying, "Uh, not documented g-" There's a typical lawyer for you.

[09:14] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[09:15] Speaker 4: Well, you know, I, I, if I may, uh, Randy and, and, and, and Chip, Randy brings a great point. In California, I can remember when the great system was preceded CalGangs with documenting all the intel. Me and Randy and you, Chip, stopping gang members throughout Los Angeles County. We put it into a system. Well, the, the weak politicians have passed certain Senate bills and Assembly bills to basically rip that system apart which there's no intel anymore. And that's the reason why, Randy, as you know this and, and Chip knows it. You know, my former unit OSS cannot, Operation Save Streets Bureau, doesn't do the amount of search warrants we used to do because that intel is, is evaporated because of how they ripped apart CalGangs.

[10:01] Speaker 1: Well, thanks guys. Excellent commentary. So appreciate it. If, uh, there's nothing else, let's move on to our, our next one. I'm gonna go ahead and skip the, uh, the one from Ohio and I'm gonna try to get Anthony Bandiera on the show for that. Um, but our, our next, we have three... You know, we have another main topic here too, and, and this one's, this one's good. Randy's gonna li- Uh, I'll tell you what. Randy, you don't... Uh, this is talking about some, um, commentators on Fox and I know you're a Fox commentator, so I'll- I'll- we'll keep this between myself and Chief Ralph so that you don't have to weigh in on it 'cause I don't wanna put you in an uncomfortable spot. Uh, but the libertydaily.com, um, Trump calls for Fox News to take loser host off the air. And, you know, I was, I, first thing I thought, I think, okay, th- they're talking about Randy Sutton, you know?

[10:47] Speaker 1: But then when I read the article, you know-

[10:48] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[10:49] Speaker 1: ... no, I'm kidding. But, uh, but, uh, but, uh, the funny thing was, I said it before we started the show, I, uh, when I, when I, uh, when I work out at the gym and I'm doing, like, cardio, I have, uh, earbuds in and, uh, and I'm, and I'm, I'm watching, I watch Fox News lately, I, 'cause I, I dumped the, The Dan Bongino Show. And, um, so when watching, in watching Fox, uh, there is a, a, a blonde, you know, they're ice...

[11:12] Speaker 1: And the blonde chick, but they're all, they're all blonde chicks-

[11:15] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[11:15] Speaker 1: ... on Fox, right? I mean, you know? I always get 'em, I always get 'em mixed up. By the time I'm like, "Which one is this?" You know? But, uh, this girl's name is Shannon Bream. And so I ha- I was gonna write in to Fox a couple weeks ago about her because there was just some stuff she was doing that was just driving me crazy. And lo and behold, I'm reading it here in this article and that's why I wanted to cover it. And of course, now we're coming up on our commercial break, so I, and I gotta start the music. But I, I'll whet the appetite with the first paragraph. President Donald Trump lashed out at two Fox News hosts. There's two of them, called for one of them to be taken off the air in a Truth Social post addressing Fox News executives directly. So we're gonna talk about that, uh, the chief and I are, in just one second. We have a commercial break coming up. We'll be right back. (gentle music) My family only cares about one thing: that I come home safe.

[12:02] Speaker 5: At Gulls, every order begins with a promise. Made with purpose. Stitched for support.Back with pride, answered by dedicated hands. Delivering the standard you have sworn to uphold. We serve more than the mission. We serve the person. Each piece is engineered to help get our first responders through the shift and back home safe.

[12:55] Speaker 1: Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I'm your host. We're joined by Chief Ralph Ornelas, all the way from California. And not too far away from there, we got Las Vegas, Nevada, former, uh, Las Vegas Metro Police Lieutenant Randy Sutton, also the founder of The Window Blue at thewindowblue.org. So thanks for being on the show, guys. You know, we left off... The, the commercial break snuck up on me. Uh, but Trump called for Fox News to take a l- loser host off the air, as he referred, uh, to her, but he's really talking about two people. Uh, so the article says that President Trump lashed out at two Fox hosts and called for one of them to be taken off the air in a Truth Social post, addressing Fox News executives directly now.

[13:33] Speaker 1: He, uh, first reacted to a Fox News Sunday interview with Massachusetts Democrat Rep., uh, Representative Jake, uh, Auchincloss and accusing anchor Shannon Bream, and that's on Sunday, that's the same show that I watch, accusing her of never correcting Democrats when they spread propaganda and lies on her show. And then he slammed co-host of The Five, Jessica Tarlow, who, who we all know, and she's the liberal portion of the, of the pa... I mean, you know, not on every single episode of The Five, but she's typically, I guess, the main, uh, uh, liberal representative on The Five.

[14:08] Speaker 1: So she's one of the five people that are on that show, and he wants her to be taken off the air for being "a real loser."

[14:14] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[14:15] Speaker 1: And, and he said, "Tell Shannon Bream of Fox News that it's not the SAVE Act, it's the Save America Act, a big difference!" Also, uh, "When she insists on having lightweight Democratic congressmen such as Jake Auchincloss on, uh, o- on her not very hard-hitting show, we should correct them when they spew out Democratic propaganda and lies." And he goes, "She never does." Now, he's absolutely freaking right. For two weeks now, I've noticed when I... I kinda switched up what I listen to when I'm, when I'm doing cardio on Sundays, and, and her show's on. And I'm watching it. I'm not just listening, I'm actually watching her. And I saw her, and I didn't even really know her by name until the show happened. And so I was contemplating writing in The Fox, like I said earlier, complaining about how she never corrects anyone and she just sits there and she lets people run their mouths and say things without...

[15:04] Speaker 1: You know, they're, they're spewing, like, like Ralph and I were talking on the break, um, n- false narratives, lies, false information. And I'll give you an example. Um, I think it was last Sunday when I was doing cardio. She had... It was a, uh, a rep or senator on there. They were a Democrat, and they were talking about the murders of Rene Good and Alex Preddy. And she sat there, cool face, never challenged that at all. But he talked about the murders of these people and he was b- he was... Well, number one, Rene Good was ICE, Alex Preddy was Border Patrol, but they're still both federal agencies but two different ones. But, you know, she never challenged it and said, "Murder? Wait, did anyone... Was there... Did anyone, did anyone get charged with murder? Was anyone ever accused of murder? Was there, is there a trial? Is there..." this and that. Becau- and she never challenges. So she's letting this, this inflammatory wording out there and never..

[15:56] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[15:57] Speaker 1: You, you know, so I don't know if, if it's because she's not sharp enough, but I'm very disappointed because I could do a better job of hosting that show and, and, and, and, and, and calling people on that crap, and put i-... But, but it's an easy show for Democrats because they never get called on anything. So I don't... How, how do you feel, Ralph? I mean, have you, have you ever seen that... her show?

[16:16] Speaker 4: Yeah, I do. I don't watch it all the time because, you know, I think-

[16:19] Speaker 1: You're in church.

[16:20] Speaker 4: No, no, no, no.

[16:22] Speaker 1: On Sunday. (laughs)

[16:22] Speaker 4: Sometimes. But, but, you know, you know, the reason why is because I, I assessed her from the beginning. She's not a very strong interviewer. And it's not her forte. She may be bright at, at analyzing maybe some Constitution laws or something like that, but she's not a strong interviewer as maybe you or Randy would be, or Gutfeld or Jesse Watters and stuff like that. But, uh, you know, and she's just, she's just not. And that's not her personality. And they know it, but guess what? They, they get a, a, a turnout. But she's doing a disservice to really, to Fox Network, because she needs to ask that question. She needs to put these people on the spot. I mean, look at, look at CNN does to, um, what's his name? Uh, uh, uh, the gentleman that always stands up for conservatives on there. I forget his name right now, I apologize. But, you know, you, you, they have...

[17:16] Speaker 4: She needs to do that to really elevate herself and, and within the network because she's, she's giving a softball question and she's allowing a softball response, and not really challenging it.

[17:27] Speaker 1: Yeah. Disappointing. I tell you what. I tell you who they should put on there instead of her. Tommy Lehren.

[17:33] Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely.

[17:34] Speaker 1: She would kill it. And, and, I mean, she... Tommy would kill it. So that, that's who I would, that's who I would like, that's who I would, like, to see. Or someone like Tommy. I mean, to-... She... Let me tell you. She would, she would, uh, she would stop and say, "Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's stop. You, you, you just used the word murderers, and we're, we're not going any further. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna dissect that first before we go any further." She would, like... That's exactly what she would do.

[17:56] Speaker 4: But, but see. Look, look who sh- who, look who they replaced, uh, Wallace with her. So there, there's a certain... And, and you know, Randy's not-

[18:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, Chris Wallace.

[18:06] Speaker 4: Randy, Randy's not gonna say anything. But guess what? There's a certain, you know, uh, polls they take and studies they take, and who they want to get into their network at certain times of the day. And she kind of fits that narrative, like, you know, Chris Wallace did.

[18:21] Speaker 1: Well, I can't ... you know, I ... th- there's no ... I'm ... I can't watch that show anymore 'cause I'm gonna freaking ... my ... I'm gonna have a heart attack. My blood pressure's gonna go up. I just can't, I just can't. I can't watch someone ... she ... I wouldn't say she ... she's not, she's not in- ... incompetent is not the right word, but she i- ... she's, she's a dis- ... she's disappointing because she's ... because people can say whatever, and sh- ... whatever they want, and she takes it at face value, which means that her audience could be ... k- ... if she doesn't say anything, then her audience is likely saying, "Well, if Shaya didn't correct them, then it must be true," you know? And, and, and it's really ... it's, it's so damaging and, and, and it's ... journalistically, you know, i- i- ... she's just not pulling the, the weight of a g- ... of a, of a ... someone in that position should be, should be doing a much better job, in my opinion.

[19:04] Speaker 4: Well, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll leave it at this. You know, the producers and the teams afterward, they should do a debrief and dissect it apart about questions that were asked and not, and not re- ... questions they ask and the responses, and then maybe not, you know, coming back with another response as Shannon Bream saying, "Hey, listen, uh, Ralph, you know, what do you mean by murderer? You know? H- ... what did you mean by that?" So, I mean, they should do debriefs just like we used to do debriefs after operations and stuff. They should do that, the producers. But I don't think that's taken place.

[19:35] Speaker 1: No, I, I doubt it. And, and so hopefully, they'll, they'll, they'll ... you know, they're definitely gonna know what Trump said. Maybe they'll catch wind of what we're saying on our show, and maybe at least the feedback will. Because they've lost a listener now. Unless that changes, they've lost me. A- and, and we've got this nationally syndicated show, so maybe some other people listening, you know, may decide, hey, you know what? We're not gonna be watching Shannon Bream either, or maybe they just weren't aware of all this stuff.

[19:57] Speaker 1: So, um, we are about 30 seconds-

[19:59] Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna ... I'm ... I am gonna add a little something.

[20:02] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, you got 15 seconds. (laughs)

[20:04] Speaker 3: All right. So, uh, I've been on Sh- ... Shannon Bream's show a number of times. I have always found ... I've ... but I don't watch a lot of news, so I haven't seen that. I could tell you that in the t- ... in the, uh, interviews I've had, she's been, uh ... she's been very professional.

[20:20] Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure, 'cause you, uh, you tell the truth. But, uh, no, I, I appreciate that, Randy. Hey, we're up for our second commercial break. We'll be right back. All right, guys. Time to talk about Compliant Technologies at complianttechnologies.com. And they're committed to providing non-lethal solutions that help officers gain the upper hand safely and rapidly in a humane, low optics manner, utilizing what they call their CD3, which stands for conductive distraction and de-escalation device technology. Now, their flagship product, we all know by now, is called the GloBRE. It's helped officers tens of thousands of times, and they've actually had over 250,000 deployments. No injuries, no deaths. That's an amazing stat. They've actually achieved non-lethal status in an arena that predominantly can only offer less lethal results.

[21:00] Speaker 1: And when it comes to weapons retention, transitioning to a sidearm or a conducted energy weapon, the GloBRE at complianttechnologies.com, they virtually eliminated weapons confusion. So stay ahead of the game with Compliant Technologies and the revolutionary CD3 that hundreds of agencies have already turned to nationwide, and friends, take it from me, when it comes to safety, this is one of the most commonsense, hands-on solutions that's ever come along. Go to complianttechnologies.com today and tell them that Chip sent you. Again, that's complianttechnologies.com. Welcome back. Leo Roundtable at leoroundtable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip DeBlock, and I'm your host. We're joined by Chief Ralph Ornelas, all the way from California, Lieutenant Randy Sutton from Las Vegas Metro Police Department, and founder of The Window Blue at thewindowblue.org.

[21:37] Speaker 1: Uh, we've been talking about, um, Trump having an issue with a couple of Fox News hosts, and if you guys are ready, uh, we've got a story in Oklahoma City, an April Fool's joke. You know, cops have ... we always say and we know ... I mean, cops have great senses of humor. I mean, I mean, I mean, do they not? So msn.com, Oklahoma City officers, they may have taken it a little too far, suspended, could be some firings over April Fool's hoax call. So not just a joke, but a, a call that went out that was a hoax. So we got ... listen, I'm not making this up. Listen to this. Multiple, multiple Oklahoma City police officers have been placed on administrative leave. And, i- i- ... and just so people know, when you get on admin leave, that's pretty serious, and it's usually up to the discretion of the chief or the sheriff whether you're on pay or, or, or, or not. And if you're not on pay and you're on admin leave, it's almost a guarantee you're getting fired, if not, worse, arrested.

[22:35] Speaker 1: But anyhow, uh, these guys placed on admin leave after an April Fool's Day hoax call falsely reported a baby being thrown from a car. It triggered a multi-agency emergency response. Now, the prank originated from within the department, Oklahoma City PD, and they're investigating possible legal and disciplinary consequences. The incident has sparked public outrage, and it raised concerns over misuse of emergency systems and public safety risks. I shouldn't be laughing, but oh my gosh. So on April the 1st, dispatchers, they get a report from an Oklahoma City police officer. He claims that he's pursuing a red Dodge Charger with no tag. And then the call escalates with alarming details. He says a baby's allegedly being thrown out of the vehicle, and then a transient runs over the baby, prompting immediate medical response from police, fire crews, and Oklahoma Highway Patrol. So we've got Oklahoma City police responding. We got the, the, uh, the fire, and then the pat- ... Highway Patrol.

[23:32] Speaker 1: Within minutes, it was revealed to have been an April Fool's prank, but they had already dedicated significant resources, you know, and they had already been deployed. Now, Ed Blau, he's a, um, legal expert, and he said that these hoaxes, they're actually illegal under Oklahoma state law and potentially leading to jail time, ouch, fines, and restitution, o- oh, of significant resources if they're used. The fact that the multiple agencies were mobilized based on fabricated details makes things more s- ... makes it more severe, um, than just a regular April Fool's joke. And then, going down the rabbit hole a little further, Oklahoma PD, they confirm multiple employees are on admin leave and that they're doing an IA investigation right now. They've not disclosed the number of officers involved or their identities, and they cited the ongoing nature of the review. Um, they said that the chief's office, th- ...

[24:21] Speaker 1: is expected to make, you know, some, uh, announcements about maybe legal charges, disciplinary action, and restitution for wasted resources, um-

[24:32] Speaker 4: Ouch. Um, what do you got? Chief Ralph, why don't you take this one first?

[24:35] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[24:37] Speaker 4: Uh, I'll tell you, you know, first of all, with that many resources and putting something like that on the air, which I believe could, could affect FCC regulations and stuff, uh, as, as a, as a commander and chief and reviewed a lot of discipline and cases and stuff, number one, there has to be an internal affairs investigation. Uh, I would also refer to, uh, which I have done, refer to the district attorney's office, or as we had it with the sheriff's department, uh, a independent criminal, uh, division to see if there's any ... Before, before referring it to the district attorney's office, refer it to the Internal Criminal Investigations Bureau if there was a violation of laws. But definitely an investigation. I mean, that to me is inappropriate and it's, uh, immature. Uh, uh, it's a lack of being a professional in that we do... And, and also this, this day and age with the social media and the way things going, you just can't, you just can't do that. I mean, the ...

[25:31] Speaker 4: Some of the things that I h- we might have done back in the day a joke where, you know, not to this level, um, we got disciplined, but not ... I mean, this is, this is over the top. I mean-

[25:43] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[25:43] Speaker 4: ... especially when you're dealing... Especially when you're dealing with babies and a car running over babies, as you articulated. And I didn't read the whole thing, but I gotta tell you, um, very disappointing, uh, in regards to, uh, being professional law enforcement's condu- conduct.

[25:58] Speaker 3: So-

[25:58] Speaker 4: Well, for, for ... Uh, we need, we need to hear from someone who's never played a practical joke or a hoax, so-

[26:04] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[26:04] Speaker 4: Randy Sutton, you're up. (laughs)

[26:06] Speaker 3: Where? (laughs) So, one guy making a stupid decision is one thing. The fact that there were others involved in this. I mean, d- did... Was there no voice of reason when, when somebody came up with this re- this harebrained idea wh- that somebody didn't say, "Hey, uh, fellas, uh, maybe we oughta think about this before we do this, and, and, and provide some well needed guidance when it comes down to making a, a, a, a bonehead decision like this." You know-

[26:42] Speaker 4: Yup.

[26:42] Speaker 3: It's just-

[26:42] Speaker 4: We needed a good woman. We needed a good woman in the group. She would have prevented this from happening, Randy.

[26:48] Speaker 3: (laughs) You're probably right. (laughs) You're probably right, 'cause, man-

[26:52] Speaker 4: (laughs) As long as there was no alcohol involved, she would have stopped it.

[26:54] Speaker 3: Oh.

[26:54] Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and, and, and, uh ... And, and Randy and, and, and Chip and the audience, where, where's, where's supervision? I mean, it ... You know, things leak out-

[27:02] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[27:02] Speaker 4: Things leak out. You know, Randy, you and I ... I mean, you kinda hear a rumbling in a hallway or something, I mean, you have an obligation to, to put your foot on that and s- put the brake on.

[27:13] Speaker 3: You, you know, you know that there's gonna be a deep investigation into who the sergeant was on that detail.

[27:21] Speaker 4: Absolutely. Yeah

[27:23] Speaker 3: So-

[27:23] Speaker 4: Absolutely, Randy. Absolutely. I got, I gotta say, my, my last six years I was with the union, I had that, you know. When I, I restarted Legal Affairs, I'm all about officer rights and stuff. If I was the agency head, I'm telling you, these guys would be gone. Let them fight to get their jobs back, I don't care. They're gone. You got ... I gotta ... You got ... I gotta fire them. They gotta go. I, I'm just saying. And I, and I, I'm the last guy that would do that. But after something like this? Dude, they're ... If they don't, if they don't fire these guys, anything that happens after this, they're gonna be writing ch- huge checks.

[27:54] Speaker 4: Let them fight to get their job back

[27:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

[27:57] Speaker 4: Sorry.

[27:58] Speaker 3: I mean, there has to be, has to be strong leadership from the top to address this issue, not to let that, something like that happen. And also, what about, you know, the trust of the public about-

[28:08] Speaker 4: (sighs)

[28:08] Speaker 3: ... professional law enforcement?

[28:10] Speaker 4: Yeah. There were, there was commentary at the bottom of the article about that.

[28:14] Speaker 3: (sighs) I didn't see it.

[28:15] Speaker 4: Yeah, they cut ... The public has ... They are like livid. And so, and, and so, yeah, a- and wearing that hat, Chief Sheriff Randy knows, you gotta ... Even the union. If I was a union rep, I would be saying, you know, "Guys-"

[28:27] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. (laughs)

[28:27] Speaker 4: "... we're working on ... We'll work onto the exit strategy. You know, we may f- we may help you with your arbitration and stuff, but dude, we're not ... " You know. There's only so much we can ...

[28:36] Speaker 3: They- When, when, w- when I was a cop in Princeton, I, I, I had a sergeant who had a very strange body type and (laughs) and he had, he had no ... He had the flattest butt I've ever seen on a human being.

[28:50] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[28:50] Speaker 3: And one day (laughs) , one time I did a, I did a crime report on the theft of his butt. The theft of his buttocks.

[28:58] Speaker 4: Oh, shoot. (laughs) . Oh. Oh.

[29:00] Speaker 3: And I did it, I did an entire crime investigation report, and I submitted it to him because he was my sergeant.

[29:08] Speaker 4: Oh.

[29:08] Speaker 3: He didn't have any sense of humor at all about that and I wound up (laughs) in the jackpot. (laughs)

[29:14] Speaker 4: Wow. That's a pretty good story. I, I bet you've never told that-

[29:17] Speaker 3: But it was a-

[29:18] Speaker 4: ... like before, have you?

[29:18] Speaker 3: It was a funny ... It was funny as hell though. It was funny as hell.

[29:20] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. Well, the, hey, I wonder if you could do that today? I don't know.

[29:23] Speaker 3: (laughs)

[29:23] Speaker 4: I don't know. All right. Good, good show so far, guys. So, look, it, it, it's time to cover a story with a video component. And, and there's one from, uh, Jacksonville Sheriff's Office. I know, I know we're, we're jumping to Florida in my neck of the woods. Um, rumble.com, our favorite law enforcement video channel called This Is Better. Uh, so JSO, Jacksonville Sheriff's Office are kind of like, uh ... They're police officers. They kind of like merge the, the police department and the sheriff's offices, like in a metro. Um, rumble.com, This Is Better. They released video from a deadly shooting outside a gas station in 49-year-old Michael Kraus.

[29:54] Speaker 3: Ready? (siren wailing) (guns firing) Yeah. Hey, pull your car up here. Hang on, boss. This dude, this dude's flagging us around. Just get out of the way. Hey. He's flagging us- I'm a law enforcement officer. I'm trying to tell you what to do. Bro, I get it. I just- Listen. Bro. Pull your car over here- Bro. ... so we can get these people out of the way. He's not trying to hurt anybody. He's pointing a gun at somebody. Bro, he just came out and pointed a gun out, so relax. I've been here. Get back. I get it. I still have to tell you. Dog, I get it. Just relax. Get ... You're not in a vest. Get back. I'm getting back, but, but that's what I'm trying to tell you. Hey, bro, just relax, all right? He's trying to talk to us. These are employees. That's what I was trying to get somebody else to get over there so they can talk to him.

[30:41] Speaker 4: Ah, go ahead, Vicky. Go ahead, Vicky. I got eyes on him. (gunshots)

[30:57] Speaker 3: Shots fired. Shots fired.

[30:59] Speaker 1: So, this is the way this thing goes down. I got just over two minutes, so we may not be able to talk much about it till we come back after the commercial break. But, so the, the sheriff's office on Tuesday released details and video of an officer-involved shooting that happened on March the 17th, and it resulted in the death of a 49-year-old bad guy, Michael Krause, um, Junior, outside a Gate Gas Station. Now, they have updated information from JSO. It indicates that he walked into the gate, um, of the gas station, 9:16 in the morning. And there's customers and there's employees inside, and, uh, he's walking around for several minutes. And then five minutes after he comes in, he pulls out an apparent handgun, points it at the clerk, a- according to the agency, and he demands that the clerk call the police, and, and he states that he wanted to die, and he wanted the police to kill him. So look, I, I know the guy has got mental issues, but... So I'm just...

[31:47] Speaker 1: For the audience, when I say bad guy, he's a, he's a non-compliant, he's not compliant to police, but he's pointing the gun at employees and at, and at customers. He's a bad guy. He's a bad guy with mental issues, okay? So I'm not, like, I'm being insensitive to that. But th- when you hear what the guy did and why the cop shot him, i- you know, they had to shoot him. So, um, so the convenience store shows him pointing at all these people. He doesn't follow, you know... He, he, he's telling them to leave the store, basically. He wants to be killed by law enforcement. He goes on to say, "You can go. I'm not hurting anybody." You can hear, see this, you can hear this on the video. "I just wanna kill myself. Call the cops, please." And he can be... He said, he said, "I'm done with this," you know, expletive, "life." So the customers, they run out of the store, and the clerk calls 911 at 9:22 in the morning. And then, once the employees leave, he stays inside.

[32:33] Speaker 1: At 9:24, he opens the door, um, to the outside, and I guess... It says, he tells employees that he was gonna come out shooting. It says the employees had already left. I didn't see any employees, so I don't know how that worked out. But the officers arrived at 9:29. He opens up the door and says, "Hey, are you guys ready?" And then he runs outside. He's got the pistol pointed out and he's cru- he's closing the distance between him and the cops on the parking lot. We've got a, a cop with a duty rifle, and he, and he takes shots, and he neutralizes the threat, and, and, and the guy dies. And, uh, we're gonna cover the rest of this in just one second. We gotta go to commercial break. We'll be right back. All right, guys. Time to talk about GunLearn at GunLearn.com. And look, they've got that certified firearm specialist, uh, degree. And hey, now, if you have it, even if it's five years old, you can convert it to college credits.

[33:16] Speaker 1: They have a, a new system, a new merger with, uh, with, with Smarter Degree, a certification, uh, by a firearm specialist. Even if it's five years old, will now earn you college credits. And it's a great, it's a great partnership with Smarter Degree's university partners. And GunLearn.com, of course, is the first and only company that offer their step-by-step program that takes you from your present knowledge level to become a certified firearm specialist. And they've been around since 1996, teaching LEOs, law enforcement officers, everything they need to know about guns and ammunition to all factions of law enforcement. You can start the day with online training, or you can register to attend a live seminar. You can also get free training for yourself and all the people at your agency by hosting a seminar at no cost. It's an amazing opportunity that the founder, Dan O'Kelly's got for you guys. Uh, go to GunLearn.com to get more information. Again, that is GunLearn.com. Welcome back.

[34:05] Speaker 1: Leo Roundtable at LeoRoundTable.com, the law enforcement talk show. My name is Chip The Block, and I'm your host. We're joined by Lieutenant Randy Sutton, founder of The Window Blue, TheWindowBlue.org, and also Chief Ralph Ornelas, all the way from California. And before we went to commercial break, we were talking about the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office in Florida releasing a video of a deadly shooting outside a gas station. Our 49-year-old bad guy comes into the gas station, the convenience store portion. He's got a, produces a gun five minutes later. Points it at all the employees and all the customers, and has, and has them call 911, and say, "Hey, uh, this guy, you know, wants the cops to shoot him. He wants to die." And then, everybody kind of bamboozles out of the, out of the convenience store, except for him.

[34:46] Speaker 1: When the cops get there, he cracks the door open and says, "Are you ready?" And, and, and so our, our cop that's wearing the body cam, he goes and he gets his duty rifle, you know, out of the, uh, out of the trunk. And he's waiting. And, and then, if you did, if you, if you guys saw that when the, when the deputy rolls up, but when the bad guy's still inside the convenience store, he hasn't come out yet. You can hear him, he gets out of his car and you can't see who he's talking to. He's saying, "Hey, get out of here. Hey, move." And then, all of a sudden, you, he, there's this, there's this guy that looks like a civilian, but he says, "Hey, I'm a cop too." He's wearing plain clothes. And he's tell- he's telling the, the, the, um, the responding officer, "Hey, you need to park your car over here. You need to do, you need to do that." And he goes, "Man, I'm a, I'm a cop too." And the guy said, "Hey, dude. That's fine, just move out of the way.

[35:26] Speaker 1: Just get out of the way." And, and, and he said, "Look. The guy... I was here. I was there. I know. I talked to the guy. He doesn't wanna, he doesn't wanna hurt anybody. He's not gonna hurt anybody." And so, the last time he said he's not gonna hurt anybody, within one second, that same dude charged out the glass doors of the, of the, uh, convenience store, gun in hand, charging the deputy with a gun out, through, across the parking lot. And he fired four shots from the rifle, took him out, and killed him. And that s- that idiot... You know, I don't know, I don't know if the guy was really, uh, law enforcement or not, but that's why we don't listen to people, y- you know. E- even if the guy was vetted and we knew he was a cop, you know, you, you've got, you do what you gotta do. And, and of course, that guy...

[36:08] Speaker 1: If, if our cop that's shot would have followed that guy's advice and pulled up closer, and the guy charged out with a real gun, now we got people dead because of, because of what this guy next- on the stage says. So just, uh... It ended up being a Glock 19 replica airsoft gun. Uh, so that's what it ended up being, but it doesn't matter. Um, commentary, Ran- Randy Sutton.

[36:27] Speaker 3: Well, you know, we see these suicide by cops more and more. I mean, uh, we see it almost... E- every show, we have s- somebody producing a knife, bringing a knife to a gunfight, forcing the cops to kill 'em.And this guy was very committed. He had a plan, he, he, uh, executed his plan perfectly, he got the desired result, and, and it was a service to the community, if you will.

[36:52] Speaker 4: (laughs)

[36:52] Speaker 3: So, uh, I mean, what are you gonna do? This, this is one of those, y- you have no choice. You have absolutely no choice. The guy is there, he's a threat, he's, he is, uh, he's a danger to others. Now, if I was that, that cop who was in the store, why didn't he take action?

[37:11] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[37:11] Speaker 3: If he wants to get involved, if he wants to get involved to that point, well, maybe he wasn't armed. But if, if he was armed and this guy is, is acting out like that, um-

[37:23] Speaker 4: Well, he's saying the guy didn't wanna hurt anybody. That's what, that was what he was saying. He didn't want the, he did not want our cop that shot him, he did not want this dude to get shot 'cause he was conv-... 'Cause it was true, the guy was running through the convenience store pointing the gun at people saying, "I'm not gonna hurt anybody. I'm not gonna hurt anybody. I'm not gonna do..." you know?

[37:36] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[37:36] Speaker 4: "I just wanna..." You know, but, but, you know, this guy, I guess, is a believer that, you know... It's kinda like, it's kinda like the guy that got fired in New, in New York, I, uh, I think it was. We got a ho- a guy, a hostage taker, and we have this guy that just left the, the military. He got hired as a cop and he's trying to, you know, he doesn't wanna neutralize the friggin' threat, and then he has backup officers showing up and, and doesn't take the shot. And, and he, and he's risking the... And the backup officer goes boom, shoots and kills the guy, and they, they fire the guy that was from the, uh, military because he, he didn't neutralize the threat. You know, it's just like, when you start believing the bad guys, it's, it's just, it's just scary. Y- you know, as Randy stated, it's really s- sad that we look at all the, all the sh- all the different videos you put on, and even in this show, there's the other couple of videos that are, kind of fall in line with that.

[38:26] Speaker 4: Um, you know, it's, it's really unfortunate we're putting our officers in a position where these people don't wanna live, and then want us to do the dirty work for them. And I really worry, I really, I'm, I'm, my concern's for my, my officers, my deputies, that they're put in that position, you know? And then, and then, yeah

[38:46] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[38:46] Speaker 4: And then after it happens, the press and all these ACLU and everybody wants to come after the law enforcement. "Well, you could've done this better, you could've done this better," you know, and we can dissect things left and right all the time, but it really saddens me because we all know, Randy, you and I know, I've had friends of mine had, were in that position, and it does affect us officers mentally. Especially when they find out it's somebody... that gun was not, was, it wasn't a real weapon, it does affect our officers.

[39:15] Speaker 4: And that's what concerns my heart and my mind for our deputies and sh- and police officers around the country-

[39:21] Speaker 3: Sure.

[39:21] Speaker 4: ... that are put into this position more and more. And if I may just say one more thing about that. Being a commander of, of a, the largest mental health jail in downtown LA, I see a lot of what the, the, the legitimate supposedly leg- legal use of marijuana and what it's done to a lot of young men of mental health, and then they get back out on the street, and then what happens? They get in positions like with this, and then the other shooting in the, in, uh, the LA County sheriff shooting, at number three on this, where they shot this guy in Avocado Heights with indus- industry stations area, was the same thing. He had a gun and it was a replica also. So, it puts these deputies in a very precarious situation, and that concerns me. Well, excellent.

[40:07] Speaker 4: Excellent commentary

[40:08] Speaker 3: And I- You know, and that's why, um, the, um, I'm gonna throw a plug in for the Wounded Blue right now. We, we deal with mental health of, of officers all over this nation. My peer team is made up of cops who've been through traumatic situations, everything from, from being shot themselves to having to take lives. And so, if you're struggling, you're an officer and you've gone through this, and you're, uh, you're having issues, please contact the Wounded Blue. That's why we are here. And, uh, and we just announced that the National Law Enforcement Survival Summit is, uh, now, you can now register for that September 28th through the 30th. Go to twbsummit.com and register today. I'll give you one great guy who's coming, is Gordon Graham is gonna be one of our keynotes.

[40:54] Speaker 4: I know Gordon Graham.

[40:55] Speaker 3: All right.

[40:55] Speaker 4: He lives right here in Huntington Beach.

[40:58] Speaker 3: All right.

[40:59] Speaker 4: You know- Well, don't hold that, don't hold that against him

[41:00] Speaker 3: If I can-

[41:00] Speaker 4: Don't cancel the show 'cause of that, Randy.

[41:03] Speaker 3: (laughs) Yeah.

[41:03] Speaker 4: No, no, but, you know, and I'm gonna give a plug for the LA County Sheriffs this coming week. Well, hold... We got, we got two and a half minutes, I got one more story Okay Okay? So, we'll, hold, hold that till the end. Uh, we got, and, and Sh- Ralph just, uh, Chief Ralph just talked about it, rumble.com, this is better. Man armed inside a Jack in the Box is injured, uh, in a, in a shooting after he points a gun at deputy

[41:22] Speaker 5: Hold it. Over here.

[41:23] Speaker 4: Hey, what's up, big dog?

[41:30] Speaker 5: Chill, it's only man.

[41:31] Speaker 4: No, you're okay. Just get your hands out of your pockets. Come here.

[41:35] Speaker 5: Fucking man. I said slow down, bro.

[41:36] Speaker 4: Come here. Stop.

[41:37] Speaker 5: I'm telling you slowly, bro. Chill.

[41:39] Speaker 4: Hey.

[41:39] Speaker 5: Chill. Chill.

[41:41] Speaker 4: Hey.

[41:41] Speaker 5: Hey, chill.

[41:42] Speaker 4: Relax. Get on the ground.

[41:44] Speaker 6: Get on the ground.

[41:45] Speaker 4: Get on the ground.

[41:46] Speaker 5: I said chill. Please.

[41:47] Speaker 4: On the ground or I'll flash the light.

[41:54] Speaker 5: Chill.

[41:55] Speaker 4: Hey.

[41:55] Speaker 5: Stop.

[41:55] Speaker 4: Hey. Stop. 10-33, give me the patch. So, it's somewhat, a little similar to the g- gas convenience store we just covered in Avocado Heights, California. So, LA County Sheriff's Office, which is, uh, Chief Ralph's old agency, he was not, of course, chief there. He was chief at a police agency afterwards, but he retired as a commander from LA Sheriff's Office. Deputy shoot a guy inside a Jack in the Box in San Gabriel Valley neighborhood on Sunday night. I have no idea where that is. It happened around 5:50, uh, PM at the fast food restaurant in Avocado Heights.

[42:21] Speaker 4: According to the news release from the sheriff's office, "Deputies say they were called to the scene because a 25-year-old suspect was causing a disturbance, um, inside, and he's refusing to leave upon the employees' request." And so, um, he-

[42:35] Speaker 1: I guess the guy had not been identified, but I found out his name was Coda. Taken into a nearby hospital in an unknown condition after being struck by gunfire from deputies. The exact circumstances surrounding the shooting remain under investigation. No injuries reported. When I go to my show notes, deputy's arrived with a jack- jack in the box. He's creating a disturbance, refusing to leave. Uh, at 2:16, two minutes and 16 seconds in, deputy wearing, uh, body-worn camera draws a taser. Suspect keeps going inside of his pocket. At 2:24, suspect produces a firearm. Shots are fired by the deputy at 2:26, and after he drops his taser and draws his duty pistol, they do freeze frames and other stuff that show the shooting. One minute, seven seconds left. Chief Ralph.

[43:13] Speaker 4: Yeah, regarding this, this, this shooting, uh, I, I gotta tell you, you know, one of the things I might have tried if I was a one-person unit and had, Randy was the other one-person unit, I would try to first try to call in and get this guy to walk out to me first. And if he didn't, then I have to go in. But I gotta tell you something, um, when that, that suspect pulled that gun out and nobody shot right away, I don't know if you noticed that on the video, he pulls out, he's pointing, and they didn't shoot right away. And I gotta tell you, as something my dad always taught me, he who hesitates loses.

[43:47] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[43:47] Speaker 4: And, uh, and God forbid, that would've been a real weapon because if you re- I remember reading it that it can take a magazine, but it can't fire. So I mean, but who knows that? Nobody, we don't know that. So I, I just, you know, tactically, I'm concerned about, about that a little bit. But, um, here we go again. I think this guy went in there, he wanted, you know, cop, uh, you know, us to do his work for him.

[44:12] Speaker 1: Well, excellent commentary. Thank you so much for being on the show, Chief Ralph Ornelas from California. Lieutenant Randy Sutton from the Wounded Blue. Now, uh, I know, Chief, I wanna give you time. You wanted to reach out, you wanted to say something about the sheriff's office real quick?

[44:24] Speaker 4: Yeah, be- 'cause Randy brought up about suicides and, and, and, and deputies and police officers. Uh, the 18th, which is this weekend, uh, there's a 5K to, you know, raise awareness within the LA County Sheriff's Department about suicides. And, uh, anybody who's in the Los Angeles County area, you know, please, the money goes to good use regards to, you know, uh, helping, uh, counseling and helping the, you know, deputies that have, you know, families in regards to, uh, suicide, um, victims.

[44:54] Speaker 1: All right. Per- I love it. And then of course, Randy just talked about the Wounded Blue event coming up. Guys, go to the woundedblue.org. I got it on the screen right now in order to get more information, and Randy's very reachable as well. So, uh, shout out to our sponsors, gaulus.com, complianttechnologies.com, gunlearn.com, ameriocare.lifesafetyrecruiting.com, and twobells.com. Thanks for watching the show. We're live again for the rest of the week. We'll see you guys tomorrow, 12 noon Eastern.

[45:16] Speaker 1: (rock music plays)