Speaker Identification
Speaker 1 - Host: Penny "Penn" Greene, host of Basketball Culture.
Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host: Tyrone Tate, appearing in conversation with Penny Greene.
Speaker 3 - Advertisement / Promotional Voice: Promotional reads and sponsor segments.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
What's up? My global basketball community. It's Penny Greene, one of America's premier basketball aficionados. From Baltimore's back alleys and the rec centers of PG County to the bright lights of Madison Square Garden, this game gave me a blueprint for life. So fasten your seatbelt and take this ride with me through the players, the legends, the history and the future. This is basketball culture with Penny Greene. It's more than just a game. It's a culture. You're killing them, Slim. You're killing them. Basketball culture. The champion in you.

It's your boy, Penny Greene. And I just want to say hello to everyone. I'm super excited tonight. I've been talking about doing a podcast for, I don't know, four or five years. And I've had a couple guys coming up and say, Penny Greene, I don't know what you do for a living, but you need to stop it and go produce a podcast. So I finally made it to the podcast room. I'm thrilled. I got my partner beside me, the Bundy, the Ali Bundy combination, Tyrone conscience, my conscience, my train, my conscience. How you say your conscience, your motivational conscience, motivational conscience. That's my guy. And out there listening is my other partner, Brian Yodel, the king of swing when it comes to parties in DC, you got to give him some credit, or you're gonna be in trouble. No, my man be strong as can be motivate me every day. Tell me to stay focused on a regular basis. So I want to just have a shout out to him. I'm excited. The show today, we're going to talk about the game is not the same. I talked to so many brothers call me up saying that, you know what, I can't even watch basketball. Can't watch it. It's too, too strange. And so we're going to get into that.

But before we do, I know how ball players are. They're like, well, Penny Greene, who are you? And what gives you the qualifications to talk basketball? You know, the ball is a very critical guys, Tyrone.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Absolutely. They rough. Absolutely. And I just wanted to, you know, follow in on you and just say, look, I'm waiting to hear this introduction. I mean, clearly everybody wants to know, you know, who is this guy called Penny Greene or Penn Greene? I mean, Penny Greene. You know, before Penny Hardaway, there was Penny Greene. And before any dollar stars with a penny.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay. So let's do this. Okay. Now I noticed a thin line between confidence and cocky. Now I think I could be teetering on the edge, but I like to believe it's confidence. Well, you know, I like the way you say that. But I think when you're on the court with a ball in your hand, there's a little cockiness going on. That's true. You got to feel good about yourself. You got to. Okay. So I grew up in Southeast Washington, D.C. and West Baltimore until about the age of 14. We hold it. Southeast D.C. Challenging environment. And Baltimore. Very challenging environment. Okay. So I like to hear this story. Baltimore and D.C. You got to be more careful. Okay. And then D.C. Okay. Put like this. My mother sort of writing on the wall. You know, I mean, I was gravitating toward that life that was, let's just say, not on the straight and narrow. So she moved us to Prince George's County. It was a breath of fresh air.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Wait a minute. You said it was a breath of fresh air. But I like to hear that story from from be more to Southeast, Nat, you're in PG County. Who else backwards? I was in Southeast first.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay. And then I went to West Baltimore. Okay. And then we ended up in PG County. Boy, some ball is out there. Yeah. So I was in some very competitive environments. You know, I mean, yes, you were. And it's a young man. My mother bought me some boxing gloves. You know, I came home one day with my eye hanging out in my head. She said, you might need to practice. She's boxing. So don't know, I get to PG County is lovely. I start playing ball under some guys who were very dynamic. At the time I didn't know, I went to a ball game and they played against St. Anthony's with John Thompson. They were an 18 game win streak. They were number one in the country. Chink Gray, Jeff Brisco, George Randall, Gary Silver. Wait, hold it.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's that's the one thing people got learned about you. You are not just a historian. You're curator. You're coming up with names that most people would have no idea who you talking about. But step-back out of all those names, which one of those ball players really caught your eye?

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Well, Jeff Brisco was first team on Metropolitan and Parkdale was ranked number two in the area that year. They won the state championship, but the point guard, Chink Gray took me under his wing. And when I went to visit the neighborhood, they were trying to give me a hard time. They didn't know I didn't have any fear, but they thought they were putting fear in my heart. But Chink took me to the side, mentored me. And when I saw them beat St. Anthony's and I knew I played with them on a regular basis. I had a lot of confidence. I said, if I'm playing with guys that just beat the number one team in the nation and I'm competing with those guys, I have to feel pretty good about myself. Hmm. Okay. Well, tell me more. So as a young man, I wanted to go. My mother saw my interest in sports as basketball. So she sent me the camp. First camp she sent me to was American University. So I got to meet Tom Young, who went on to have a great career at Rutgers.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Wait a minute. American University, for those who are out of state, maybe those in another country, tell them where American University is located. American University is in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay. And at the time, they had a gentleman who holds the record and CAA record for most. He had 20 rebounds and 20 points a game. His name was Kermit Washington. So now you prove in my words of you being a curator, not just a historian. So tell me more. So Tom had a camp up in the Poconos Mountains and other coaches that were with him that day. And of course, as a young man, I didn't know, but 20, 30 years later, I realized these are Hall of Fame coaches. There was Dr. Tom Davis, who ended up at Boston College in Iowa. There was Will Jones, who wanted Division II championship. And so those are the kind of people I was exposed to. I was left to Driesell's camp with Lefty Driesell and George Ravelingg. So as a young man, looking back on it, I realized.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Time out, as a coach, I got to use the word timeout. So that's how I'm going to get your attention here. No, I get you. You using Lefty Driesell, and George Raveling in the same sentence? Those are people who taught me the game of basketball.

So let me repeat the words again. Tell me more. So I go into high school. And my high school coach is Stan Kernan. And at the time, I didn't realize it, but he taught his fundamentals. He was very sound. You had to play defense. And he knew the game of basketball. Later on, I found out that he was part of a team at McKinley Tech call the fabulous five. And they won 38 straight games. He also is in the Louisiana Hall of Fame when he played at McNeese State. So here's another person to touch my life who was a basketball savant. Hmm.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Well, I mean, you got quite a little, I say little, but that's an understatement. You got quite a background here. No, I'm trying to let people know where my credibility comes from when I talk the game of basketball. Oh, I'm not just talking. Oh, well, I mean, when you use the word curator to describe a person that really puts you in a new league. No. But okay, now that we've gotten past that part of who Penny Greene. But I'm not done yet. Oh, you're not done. I got more to tell you. Okay. I'm trying to speed it up. But I need people to know, because you know, ballplays, they're like, well, who is this guy? And what makes him think he can talk basketball? When we do the next show, I'm wondering how you're going to be for the new person. This is the first show. So I have to set the groundwork for the future, which you I mean, I can only imagine your second and third show is going to be listening to listen to by millions of people.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
No, I don't have to talk about myself as much in the next show, but I got established who's who and what's what. So, wait a sec, I met Parkdale, Kernan, one two state championships boys, two state championships girls, only coaching the history of Maryland basketball to do that. And Kernan, you use the word only, only as in one precedent. So this is the kind of coach even today to this day. Great coach, great player. So the beautiful part is coaching and give nobody the green light. Everybody was a team oriented scenario at Parkdale. No one got the green light. I took, I ran the light.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay. No one got the green light. So I had to run it. So you got the green light? He didn't give it to me. I ran it. I took it.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
That tells me something about you, but he was okay with it. That means you saw the ball and you never saw a shot that you didn't like. That's about right.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay. And the thing is, a lot of guys shoot the shoot, you know what I mean? They just walk in the gym, they want to shoot everything. I was shooting to win. You see what I'm saying? So the day I ended up on the cover of the The Washington Post, the sports section, I missed my first four shots, then I went 13 for 15 the rest of the game. So I know how to get the ball The Washington Post. There was a 500,000 circulation was about 500,000. Do you mean Donald Huff took the time out? Dude, that was a beautiful day. When I found out I had been on the cover of the The Washington Post. By the way, I shouldn't have mentioned that name without you telling us who Donald Huff was a very important sports icon, sports writer, first black sports writer for the The Washington Post icon. He really helped establish Washington brand as far as being the national brand in the city. Nationally, I should say. Okay. Great man. All right. So, and I want to close that story out because when I found out that I was on the cover of the The Washington Post, okay, I went to the library to get the newspaper. I saw it. I put my feet up on a desk.

I told him one of the young ladies go get me lunch and I stood there and looked at the newspaper the rest of the day. I was done for the day. That's it. Exciting. So as we go from there, I get recruited by John Thompson, Hall of Fame coach. I end up being John Thompson, Hall of Fame. First black coach who went to national championship. I used to be upset because he used to come to my house and he would sit on the sofa and he would dent the sofa. He's a big man. You know what I mean? Yeah, he was. I was concerned he might mess up my mother's sofa. You know, big man. He went into a lot of houses and upset a lot of people there. He was huge. Okay. And God, the egg versus so. And then I end up going in South Florida following a guy named Bill Gibson, who was ACC coach of the year. So these are the two guys who recruited me. So I got a feel halfway decent about my game. And ACC at that time was the top conference in America. I go on to South Florida. I take them to the best winning percentage in 50 years.

I got a standing ovation in the garden, which was super exciting, especially seeing all the excitement around Madison Square Garden this year, seeing the parades and the parties and all the excitement. So I can say I have my greatest moment in the world's most famous arena. In the garden. So all of them ballplayers out there, they got all the mackerelays. When you get a stand ovation in the garden, you, that's the top. That's the trump card. When I play that card, people get quiet because you know, ballplays, they all talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Everyone talks. And when I hear them talking, I drop that card on the table. It's quiet. I do have to say I did go to the house that Penny built. And I saw you in the walk of fame. Thank you. Thank you. University of South Florida was kind enough to put me on the wall of fame. Yes. So it was 30 years removed, 30, 40 years removed, but better late than never. Yes. So that was a good move for my career. Yes. I played against the best players in the world. Adrian Dantley Hall of Fame, Moses Malone Hall of Fame, John Lukas number one draft pick in the 76 of draft played against the parade.

All Americans, Stacy Robinson, Joe Johanna, Skip Wise, NBA, guards Eddie Johnson, Norm Nixon. So I played against the best in the world. All right. So that's my basketball career. Okay. Now, now I jump out of basketball and I start becoming a curator. I start going to the Library of Congress in accumulating historical information. I put together a website DCBasketball.com. Okay. The most comprehensive basketball website in the country. And I compare, I would take any place in this in the country to see if indeed they have a comparison then. We have the fact that I appeared in Kevin Durant's documentary, three voiceovers, three appearances. So that really put me on the map. And lastly, I'm 21, 70 years old. I'm 190 pounds. I was 185 in college. And to Jim, they call me uncle Drew. All right. We'll be back after that.

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Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
We're back. We're going to close out this episode on who Penny Greene is and in closing. I just want to say to all the listeners who are questioning the credibility, you want to know the credibility of this guy. I've invested more than 10,000 hours playing this game and studying this game. This is why I'm very comfortable and feel very like I'm very qualified at talking about the game of basketball. Next, we're going to get into the game is not the same.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Well, and let me just weigh in on it.

I mean, because that was an incredible resume. I mean, you had me on the edge of my seat. I mean, I was waiting for you to start shooting it. And of course, shoot the basketball. You know, should have put a ball in here, but then again, you got to keep balls out of your eyes. Because like you say, there's a shot that you have, you know, you certainly don't see shots that you don't like. Let's just put it like this.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
I still carry a basketball in my trunk. Oh, my goodness. All right. So, Penny, the title, I mean, the game is not the same. If someone hasn't watched basketball in 30 years, what would shock them the most about today's game? Well, you know, I get that call all the time from guys to say, I can't watch the game. It's just not the same. And they're so upset and so perturbed. And it's just so many things that have changed. But before we go into that, I just want to mention I grew up in an era to 70s. And my first hero was Oscar Robertson. And he was Bill basic, but very efficient, you know, head fake, back you down strong. Okay. So, when you look at a guy like that, that's what all the coaches wanted you to be. But it's time in the early 70s, coaches were starting to let you freewheel and your style of play was starting to become a little more relaxed. And people's personalities were starting to come through in their games. So I looked at when I was a kid, the interesting thing was watching the scoring title fight between Pete Maravich, who was slick as goose grease. Okay, had a lot of tricks. A lot of he was very flamboyant.

A Midwest guy like Rick Mount, who was basically shooting on a barn. You could tell all night every night. Never missed a jumper. Calvin Murphy, who was an East Coast guy who was five foot nine, won a Patan contest, won gymnastic contest and played basketball. Very diversified portfolio. And then Austin Carr, who was a Washingtonian, who grew up on River Terrace playground. And he was so asked him what his nickname was. They said speedy because he was so slow. Okay. So watching these guys are the guys I was watching coming up. And so players were starting to play with more style and more sway. Just to give you an example, Pete Maravich. This guy wore the same socks from junior high school to the pros. Floppy's, I mean, very superstitious. I mean, it's very unique. You wore the same socks for two 20 years. Okay. And he had the floppy hair and the fast passes, a full court pass behind the back. It was always something really a flamboyant about his game. Then there was what Walt "Clyde" Frazier was driving around in a Rolls Royce. He had a big brim hat. And he was on every fashion magazine. So people's personalities were starting to come through the game.

And then of course, there was Dr. J, Julius Erving. He had the big afro. And when he flew through the air, his afro like fluttered in the air, you know, okay. Okay. Then you had Calvin Murphy, small guard, big energy, lightning quick, fearless attitude. And he could shoot the ball, you know, they talk about Steph Curry, the greatest shooter in the history of the game. Well, Calvin Murphy shot 95.8 from the field from the free-throw line one year. And Calvin was in about 17 fights. And I remember fight when he jumped up and punched Sidney Wicks in the face who six foot nine, he five nine, so he had to jump up just to punch him in the face. So these are the kind of guys I'm watching on the way up. Don't forget Archie Clark. Archie Clark was the originator of the crossover dribble. Before Isiah Thomas, before Tim Hardaway, before Pearl Washington, Mike was crossing folks up, twisted ankles. Nobody even know who Archie Clark is. And last but not least, the guy who I really idolized was Earl the Pearl Monroe. In Philadelphia, they called him Black Jesus. Okay. He would his move was the spin move. And I and I actually met him. And I perfected his spin move.

And I walked up to him, I said, Mr. Morgan, I can say hello to you. He said, how are you doing? I said, I want to tell you something. He said, what's that, son? I said, I perfected your spin move. And to this day, I have found anybody that can check me. He started laughing. He didn't know I had met him 15 years earlier when he was playing for the Baltimore Bullets. They came to Cole Fieldhouse. They were transitioning from Baltimore to Washington. I was hustling Coca-Cola's. So I go knock on the door, knock, knock, knock. And Gus Johnson comes out, he says, how can I help you kid? I said, could you get Earl Monroe from me? They said, magic. Some young kid out here wants to talk to you. He came out, showed me some love. And then he walked off into the distance with the two most beautiful women I've ever seen in my life. And I said to myself, I want to be Earl Monroe.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
So let me ask you, I mean, you named a lot of, those were a lot of legendary names. Yes, sir. So out of that era, because you spoke 70s a lot. Yes. So out of that era, which one of those players you feel would fit in today's game?

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Well, that's a good question. I think they're all fit. Yeah, all of you. Because, you know, a lot of guys talk about, I get calls from young guys, they try to heckle me. They call it Penny Greene. You know that the guys today couldn't play with the guys of yesterday. They're more athletic. They're more skilled. You know what I tell them? If you can play, you can play. I don't care if you're fat. I don't care if you're skinny. I don't care if you drew all right handed or all left handed. If you can play, you can play. Right. The game with basketball is a game with deception. So if a guy that's more athletic and can jump, you just give him a head fake. He jumps out the way. You lay the ball in. So my personal opinion is that if you can play and you have skills, they could play in that era or in today's era.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
So let me, as a coach would say, time out. Yes, yes, sir. But using those players of today or those names of today, because you just mentioned it, which one of those players in today's game can play in the 70s that you feel could easily get. I think it's ironic because the young guys talk about the skill of today's players.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay. And the athleticism. Okay. But the players of today, the four MVPs, four out of five MVPs. So hold on.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Before we can get there, skill and athleticism of a guy that's playing today that would be playing with the guys in the 70s, something that you and I know for a fact, you won't be high flying coming through the middle of laying the ball up and nobody's touching you. Remember the way fouls were carried out back in the 70s, opposed to today, man, they'll probably break your form.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
No, it was vision. Can you imagine? I'm gonna just bring a name out. Someone that you know, that was pretty physical. But can you imagine someone like Wes Unseld standing there waiting on you to lay the ball up? I mean, God bless us. So do you know what this guy would have done to one of the smaller guys that's coming up to do a finger roll? Once again, the game has changed because the game was inside out. And now it's outside in. So the court's more spread. So it's easier for the little guy to get close to the basket. In the 70s, the closer you were to the basket, everything was about getting closer to the basket. So it was more physical. It was more vicious. And I never forget when Karl Malone, Isiah Thomas, upside the head, and he had a concussion and they interviewed him after the game. And they said, what are you asking me? What do you want to know? Came to the basket. I stopped him. Okay. So it was a whole different game. So more vicious. So what's your thought on someone like Moses Malone and his era? Moses was one of the most consistent rebounders in the history of the game. He won the rebounding crown several times. And he just had a motor that was relentless.

And I was fortunate enough to play with Moses Malone coming out of high school. And he wanted the NBA championship for four four four times in three different four different series. And they went swept all four series. Okay. And but he was just relentless. He just had a high energy level. And he was a Hall of Fame. Okay.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Well, get back to where you were.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay, no problem.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
No problem.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
So as we were talking, the ABA emerges. Okay. They end up playing against the NBA and ABA guys like George "Iceman" Gervin, Iceman, used to tip toe around on the court. He wouldn't sweat. He would throw finger rolls from like 10 feet away. Of course, you know, Dr. J was flying through the air. Guys like Roger Brown from New York who goes, you know, it doesn't get a whole lot of shine, but he was a beast, one, a couple of home boy. And when I say your home boy that played in your home team, who in DC, Rick Barry, Rick Barry was interesting. He shot 90% from the field and he shot all his free-throws underhand. These are the kind of personalities that were emerging from the ABA David Thompson, Connie Hawkins. Well, it looks like another break is coming out.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
No problem. So we're rolling now. So we'll take a time out and we'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
We're back at you. So, you know, here's a good question because I like what you're saying about the 70s and, you know, clearly it merges into the 80s, but did we lose something while making the game better over the years? I mean, now it's 2026. So, did we lose? Is it something obvious to you that we have lost something to make the game better? Is it that we lost speed? Is it the skill? Is it the fundamentals? Is it the toughness that we lost creativity or team basketball? Because, you know, we always talked about team basketball and I'm going to make this a twofold question. Tough question. And that is, you know, if we could bring one thing back from the 70s or the 80s, what would that be? Well, you're hitting with a lot of tough questions, but I would say that the evolution of the game as the personalities and the ABA merged into the NBA and, you know, the game started getting a little physical, like in the 90s with the nays to beat up Mike Jordan and Detroit and Chicago used to battle. But, you know, the interesting part is the game is changed, but it hasn't changed because the old, the best players in the league today are skill players and not the athletic players.

The, the Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and OKC with the mid-range grain. Okay. The Brunson, you know, with the tippy toe jumper, you know, he's not jumping out to Jim. The Jokic and Denver and Luka. These guys are considered probably four to five best players in the game. And then they're out running you and they're not out jumping you. But when I look back at the game, it's an evolution, you know, is, you know, it's like things come and go. And one time the little man was hot, you know, Michael Adams, Dana Barrows, Muggsy Bogues, then they go away. One time the big guards, so there's different trends to take place. Now today's game is a different game because when we played in the seven everybody had a role. You had a point guard. His role was to make sure the offense got good shots. He was a coach on the floor. Then you had the scoring guard who, you know, basically shot the ball. The small foot was versatile. He would score and or rebound. The power forward was tough. Offense of rebound get put back in the center. He dominated the low post. He made sure nobody ran through without catching that elbow going through. Don't come through here again. Okay. Go around the other side.

And today's game where all players do all things. I mean, back in my area, if you shot a 25 foot in miss, you knew you were going to sit down because it was inside out. Today's game is outside in. So a guy like Tony Parker could lead the league in points in the paint because the floor spread out. Okay. And let's also look at math. You love math and you love science. Yes. They a lot of guys will get under the basket and throw it out to the three-point line. But mathematically, if you shoot 33 percent from three, it's more efficient than shooting 50 percent from two. So the game has spread out. There's more room. And it's more of an entertainment value. We're trying to create.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
So with that said, here's another great opportunity for you to really weigh in on something.

What is it that stats can't measure? Because the game is driven by stats, man. So what is it? The first thing that I think of when you say that is leadership. I just saw the San Antonio Spurs lose a 29 point lead to the New York Knicks. They came down and took 12 three-point shots in a row. Did you see that game? Missed all 12. So when I played, I would have got the ball. Ask my teammates, have you lost your mind? We need to get a better shot. Let's pass, pass, pass. Let's work the clock down some, get a high percentage shot. I think the number one thing is missing is leadership.

Could that have been also a matter of low basketball IQ? Yeah. That's why I could is basically that they didn't know the slow the game down. I mean, it could have been in the moment. No, it's just it's just they run and shoot and jump. They're athletic and they're on goal. They're not thinking the game. They're not thinking what do we have to do when just like you go to war.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay. No, it's war. How do I win? How do I come back alive? Okay. So I know, you know, time is running out on us. We're getting to a point and I want you to make another point based on your introductory. And that is just say, the game of basketball has been good to you. I mean, very good to you. It's obvious it has helped you to define your lifestyle and your legacy. I just want to know, what is that one lesson that every young person would carry for the rest of their life that you see the basketball can teach them? Well, basketball is, first of all, it teaches you how to analyze things. Okay. When I got on the basketball court and I could dribble with my right, but I needed to dribble with my left. Okay. So the game of basketball will prepare you for life academically business. You have to learn how to prepare. You have to learn the importance of repetition. And if you're not a good reader, and if you read the comic strips or sports, as long as you read something, you become a better reader for the importance of repetition. So a lot of the templates for success on the court manifest themselves in life.

But I want to close the show out with one thing that's real important that I want to point out when they get across is that hey, the game is not the same. Let's go over the list of things that really make the game different, which upsets a lot of the older brothers where they can't even turn the TV on. Or if they do, they got to put their hands over their eyes because they can't watch this your basketball IQ coming out. Okay, ready? The moving screen. A guy can jump from right to left when you're coming off to take a shot. That makes life a lot better. Okay. A moving screen used to be have to stand there be stationary. Now screens are everywhere. The Eurostep really sporty. Basically, when I played, they called that a walk. You're taking three steps to the back. Okay. How about the step-back? You stop, you step-back, or you step to the side. In my day, if you couldn't jump over a guy, you're in trouble. Okay. The flopping, the acting, like you do instant replay and you find a guy falling the floor and you go to instant replay. If I don't know, I never touched them. Okay. When a shooter went up for a shot, you had certain airspace now that you can't come in when they call a flagrant.

When I used to go up for a shot, there were guys underneath waiting for me trying to make me twist my ankles. Okay. And then if you're a big shot like LeBron or Giannis or even most players, they can actually run over you. They can get ahead of steam, bump into you full speed. They used to be a charge. All these things are enhancing the offense, which make older guys not want to watch the game. But what they don't realize is capitalism, it's entertainment value. Okay. Those owners got to feel the skybox this. They got to get people into the skyboxes. So offenses king, it rules. Everything is in favor of the offensive player. Okay. So it's really difficult for the old school guy to watch these changes. And I get it. I hate on them a little bit myself. Because if I had those things, I would probably average about 35 instead of 25. You know, it's my fact. I think they should put a asterisk beside three-points in the record book, because I shot three, but they only gave me two. I want my points as the evolution of the game. They say the only thing that's constant life has changed. Don't hate the young is watch the game engage enjoy it. And other stuff just close your eyes.

Well, now, you know, I'm I'm very enlightened, especially on the way you have explained a lot of these changes over time. But out of all those changes, what is the one that really pulls your your emotion that you just can't stand to say it? Well, I got a lot of charging files. I was a very aggressive player. And when I see a guy build up head of steam, and the other guys running trying to get away from him, and he runs over the guy who's trying to get away. And the guy who's running away gets filed called for a file. I mean, can you imagine LeBron James coming at you at six foot eight to 60 depending on what day? Okay. And you're trying to run away from him. And he runs his body up against yours. I'm sure I would get in the cell charge. I'm sure I'd be waiting for him in the parking lot. Okay. I'm sure. I'm trying to get away from you. You run over me and I get the bow. So it's hard for me to stomach that, but it's the evolution of the game. And I do understand they want to see points scored. Americans like to see points equate that to success. And it's just tough for the next generation to deal with it. But you know, I'm okay with it. I've adjusted. You know what I mean?

It's the game we love. No, it's been very good to me basketball. It's changed my life. It's exposed me that things that have never been exposed to. And just I love the game of basketball. So what do you want your audience to remember you by after this show here? What can they expect the next time around? Well, we're just going to try to, you know, probe into all aspects of the game from fashion to NBA to high school to college to rule changes to salary caps. We want to get into every facet of the game and keep the shows fascinating, keep them fun, lighthearted, and, you know, this basketball culture.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Boy, well, I tell you, I'm looking forward to these details and certainly moving forward in this basketball culture of yours. We have a great day. And I know that time is about to wind up on us. And, you know, as a coach, a player myself and having that opportunity to also experience Baltimore and DC and PG County, not in the way that you experienced it, but clearly I have my own ways and mainly in DC to experience, but to roam around the country and see the game of basketball in places like Texas and California and Florida and of course New York and New Jersey and Massachusetts. And I hope I haven't left everyone out, but here's Penn Greene. Take it out. No, in closing, you just want to say thank you so very much. And we'll look to see you next time.

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Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay, so I just want to thank everybody for tuning in. We got six minutes? Six minutes. Okay, it's on and popping. So I just wanted to say we're back and I'm loving every minute. I got my potting over here, Tyrone Tate keeping me revved up and we talking some good basketball talk. We went back to the 70s to Earl Monroe, the George "Iceman" Gervin. And by the way, you know Fatty Taylor from DC actually gave him his name. Iceman. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they said he'd come back at the end of practice. He wouldn't be sweating. Everybody in the team would sweat but him. Iceman. Oh, yeah. Bad man. Ice. And so I wanted to also in closing tell you what I've seen. It's quite a dilemma for me. We talked about the guys running over each other. Okay. But every team is a trend that every team does pick-and-roll. And every team switches to pick-and-roll. Now, if I paid a man $30 million a year, you need to get through the pick and stick with your man. Okay. It's too easy. So now you get the mismatches, the big man on the low man. Okay. Once again, creates more offense. Okay. But I see these long scoring droughts because with pick-and-roll, you have to have a certain IQ.

You have to have a certain feel for the game. You have to be able to have a certain rhythm. Okay. And what happens with the pick-and-roll is that over time, sometimes it gets stale. I saw Orlando this year go almost 20 possessions without scoring. I saw, I seen teams go into these long scoring droughts running a pick-and-roll. If I was the coach and I was, I have certain plays for designated players, putting them in their sweet spot. So when I run into those droughts, and we can't score, I can still get the ball to the person who needs the ball versus depending on my teammates to figure out my team to figure out how to get the ball to the right player. So with those mechanics in place, what do you feel about these recent trades? I mean, do you think they'll be able to pick up on the pick-and-rolls and take advantage of them? No, I think it's part of the game. The pick-and-roll is part of the game and mismatches is part of the game. I do think it's great for the NBA to be able to have all the trade action moving here from there, but the whole Jaylen Brown piece threw me off though.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
It did? Yeah. Jaylen Brown, that really was confusing to me because he was a great player. He was the MVP of the finals a year, a couple years ago. The quarter, he was the finals and then he was the MVP of the championship game. So I don't know what else and then when Jayson Tatum got hurt, he actually carried the squad to the second best record in the East. So why would you look to trade him? I don't know, was it salary situations? I don't know. Bad man, Jaylen Brown. As my effect, I think he's the best player in the NBA.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Well, you talked about capitalism early on. Maybe it was a business decision.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Could be. Could be. I need to research that a little more because from what I'm understanding, then there's a lot of different conversations out there. It didn't sound like money. It sounded like some personal issues. Just because you are a general manager, don't mean you can't get in your feelings. I remember certain teachers didn't like me. I was a kid. I'm sure there were certain coaches that didn't like you as well. My coach, he was a little frustrated. I'm talking about the opposing coaches.

No, the opposing coaches, I was a man, man. So I used to run by him. Like they jump off the bench and say something. I say, coach, shut up, sit down. Of course, the team guys who are on the bench were upset because they were on the bench. So they would laugh, you know what I mean? But that was not very smart. I wasn't as mature as I should have been.

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
Okay. Well, even my own coaches, you question, they were scratching ahead a few times.

Speaker 2 - Guest / Co-Host, Tyrone Tate
Well, you've done an excellent job defining and validating the title of being a curator. So how do you take us out of this show today? Considering we've had a great time, a lot of different discussions. What's next?

Speaker 1 - Host, Penny Greene
I just want to fine tune this art of doing the podcast and delivering the message. And I want to make sure I bring relevant pertinent conversations to the table that keep people interested. And at the end of the day, I want to have fun with it. And I started out, you know, like at the bottom coming out of the mud. What's the top show in this country? I don't know. You got the top podcast, basketball, I'm coming for you. Okay. You coming for me? I'm relentless. This is day one. We've trusted believe. I'm coming to the top. All right. Well, take us on out because you've got a few seconds to go. Thank you so much for the audience joining me. Thank you so much for all the basketball community. And remember, we are one. No signifying. Remember, this show is dedicated to the champion in you. This your main man, Penny Greene signing off. Visit BallCoacher.com or call 770-374-4750. Keep on balling. Basketball culture where the game lives and the champion lives in you.