Speaker Identification

Speaker 1 - Prerecorded Opening / Song Voice
Identified from the introductory lyrical material and show-opening narration before the live conversation begins.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown
Identified from the line, “I’m your host, Michael D. Brown,” and from the guest repeatedly addressing him as Senator Brown.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve
Identified from the host’s introduction of “my friend Steve” and the guest’s responses throughout the conversation.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones
Identified from the host’s introduction of “my amazing co-host, Liberty Jones,” and from her direct questioning of the guest.

Speaker 5 - Listener / Audience Comment
Identified from the co-host reading comments and questions submitted by listeners or viewers.

Speaker 6 - Prerecorded Closing / Song Voice
Identified from the closing promotional lyrical material after the host signs off.

3. Items Requiring Verification

Opening song lyrics: Several lines appear automated or garbled, including “Let the midnight speak for the overlooked” and “Every broken-out voice makes the country whole.” These were corrected to the most likely readable version without outside verification.

“FAFO”: Kept as spoken by the guest because it appears intentional, but the exact intended wording should be verified if the transcript will be published for a general audience.

“Pete Hegseth”: Corrected from the automated rendering “Pete Hetso” based on context. Verify spelling if needed for publication.

“Judge Jeanine Pirro”: Corrected from the automated rendering “Pirro” and surrounding context. Verify if the reference is intended to be published as a formal name.

“Jared Kushner”: Corrected from the automated rendering “Jared Krasner” based on context. Verify if needed.

“Will Rogers”: Corrected from the automated rendering “Roger” based on the familiar quotation about Democrats belonging to no organized political party. Verify if a precise attribution is required.

“laissez-faire government”: Corrected from the automated rendering “lazy, fair government” based on context. Verify if the exact term matters.

“Scott Wiener”: Corrected from “Senator Wiener” based on context in the transcript, but the exact title and spelling should be verified if publication requires accuracy.

“pro-PLO”: Corrected from “pro P.O.O.” based on the Israel/Palestine context, but this should be verified.

Closing song lyrics: Several lines appear automated or garbled, including “make the blue no surprise” and “put the honor city right before the nation’s eyes.” These were kept in a cleaned, most-likely form and should be verified against the audio if exact lyrics are required.

4. Corrected Publication-Ready Transcript

Speaker 1 - Prerecorded Opening / Song Voice:
Democracy is a chorus, and it starts with you.

Shadow Politics.

Let the midnight speak for the overlooked, the unheard, the strong, and the weak.

Senator Michael D. Brown holding open the door, Liberty Jones saying we were silent no more.

From the district streets to the nation’s soul, every broken-out voice makes the country whole.

Shadow Politics. Turn the dark into sound. When America listens, justice comes around.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Good evening and welcome to Shadow Politics, an hour-long grassroots talk show that is on a mission to make America think again. I’m your host, Michael D. Brown, United States Senator Emeritus, and along with my amazing co-host, Liberty Jones, we are interviewing the people who are making it happen, not always in front of the camera, but always ahead of the curve.

We’re not going to tell you how to feel or who to vote for. We’re just putting the information out there, because what goes on in the shadows is what really makes the world go round. So come listen and learn, because the vote is a terrible thing to waste. And now more than ever, we need everyone listening, learning, and engaged if we’re going to make America sane again.

Got a question? You can call us at 888-627-6008.

We have an amazing guest tonight, my friend Steve. And I want to point out that Steve is my friend because I think it’s important that we remember that just because somebody is on the other side of things does not make them our enemy. These are our friends, our family, the people we work with, and we have to listen to them.

My dad used to say you can’t learn anything new from anybody who agrees with you. You need to have different opinions in order to grow and learn. So tonight I hope we can grow and learn. I’m here with my amazing co-host, the beautiful, brilliant, and always interesting Liberty Jones. So welcome, Liberty, and welcome, Steve. Thanks for being on the show.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Thank you, Senator Brown, and Liberty. It’s a privilege to be here.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
All right. You know I love opening with somebody willing to suck up.

Hey, let me ask you. Let’s start, Steve. You voted for Donald Trump three times. Why? What is it that you see in him that attracts you? Or have you ever voted for him, as unfortunately we say very often, as the lesser of two evils? Is there something that you really find attractive in this man as a politician? Just tell us your feelings about it.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
I think from my perspective, Senator, it’s his policies and getting the job done. Everybody, a bunch of politicians from both sides, Republican, Democrat, Independent, they seem to promise the world, but they get nothing done.

I remember when Donald first came into office. He was a businessman. Obviously, I’ve been following Mr. Trump for many, many years. He has been one of my idols since I was a little kid, just the business side of it, what he’s done for New York and everything.

The first time I voted for him, I wanted an outsider. I was done. I was done with the RINOs. I was done with the Democrats. I wanted an outsider who could come in and get things done, and he did.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Well, he got a few things done. He got some good things done and some mean things done too.

Liberty, you have a question for our guest?

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
Yeah. First, I wanted to thank you for such a beautiful introduction, and you are the most brilliant.

Thank you, Steve, too, for being here. I have a question for you. If you wanted somebody different, why didn’t you look at Independent candidates?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Can you name me an Independent candidate?

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
Well, I’m a little biased. Bernie.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Yeah, we’re going to get on that. I’m going to have that conversation later.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
Okay. My next question would be, out of all of the things, good and bad, that Donald Trump has achieved in his presidential terms, what to you was most marking that you think will be in the history books in 150 years?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
That’s a really good question. I think he’s made an impact. Obviously, I know this is going to go well with you guys on immigration. I think there is a way to get into the United States. I think there is a fair way to get in. I don’t believe in border crossings or coming in here illegally.

However, with that being said, I do realize that people who have established themselves here for 20 years, 25 years, 15 years, whatever, the grandmas, the grandpas, I get it. They have been here. They’re Americans. I believe they are Americans. I believe they love our country.

But you know what? There are some bad guys out there who don’t love our country who are here. That’s what I think he’ll be remembered for. It’s immigration.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No, I was just going to say that I understand this. I think a lot of people feel that way. I think if he is seen as having any great accomplishment, it’s certainly that. He certainly closed down the border. There is no doubt about that.

But I’d just like to point out that it is my humble opinion that most of the people who came into America came into the country in terms that we would call illegal today. They didn’t all come through asylum. Many of them did, but many of them came walking across the border.

The thing that I object to, and I wish you could tell me what you think of this, is the characterization by this administration that these people are murderers and rapists. They are not. They are your grandfather and my grandfather, and they’re just like everybody else.

Do we need to vilify them in order to get people to stand up and say, enough is enough? That’s the part that I think most of us object to.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Not everybody is a murderer and a rapist. I will say that. However, with that being said, like we discussed last week or two weeks ago, there was a mother of five who was killed, murdered, and raped in Maryland, and he was an illegal immigrant who had been deported three times. He came back and raped and murdered our American citizen.

I don’t like that. That really irritates me. That is what turns me off about the Democratic Party, that they don’t realize that people are butchering and murdering our American citizens.

I’m not saying Americans don’t do that either. They do. However, it’s like you guys are saying, and I’m not saying you directly, but the Democratic Party is saying, “Hey, there are no rapists. Hey, there are no murderers out there.” But even though there is proof that half the people from El Salvador came from their jails and came here.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
There is no proof of that. Half the people from El Salvador were released from jails? This is just stuff they put out there to fire people up.

But I agree. I think what liberals are saying, and I know Liberty is chomping at the bit to ask a good question, but let me just say that I think what we’re saying is they don’t rape and murder any more than the people who are already here. We understand that, yes, there are some absolutely hideous crimes.

But the danger, I think, when you start talking about that is that we can move on to other things that Republicans say. Only mean people, only criminals, kill people with guns. That’s not true. People in America who are killed with guns are killed by law-abiding citizens. Everybody who has ever tried to kill President Trump has been a law-abiding citizen. They had no criminal records.

Both sides do it, and it’s wrong. Maybe guns and immigration are like comparing apples and oranges, but it’s the same sentiment that moves on both sides.

Go ahead, Liberty. I know I’m interfering with you.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
I completely agree with you. The last thing I would want in our country is to have people wreaking havoc and increasing crime. I used to work against gun violence, so I understand.

However, I think that we’re taking a needle in a haystack to create a greater narrative. So the question I have to ask you is, when was the first time that you felt directly affected by immigrants and that you felt that illegal immigrants were affecting your liberties in this country?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Another good question. You are full of fire today.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Well, that’s it. We need somebody on the show who is smart, so that’s why she’s here.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
You know, I would probably say when I was a kid. I grew up in California. I grew up in a pretty tough area. I had guns drawn on me at the time from illegal immigrants. They were illegal, and I knew they were illegal.

But back at that time, no one really gave a crap. Sorry, I don’t know if I can cuss or not, but no one really cared because it was the early ’70s and ’80s. They were just flowing in at that time. It’s a different lifestyle now.

Personally, I don’t feel attacked right now, but I think about my youth. I think about my kids. I think about the jobs, the special benefits that they don’t get, that Democrats just want to give all this money to illegal immigrants. The people who come in from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, and you name it. They give them money.

You know what’s funny? I was married before, my first marriage, and my father-in-law was Polish. He was legal here. He had a green card and everything. He told me one time, “Steve, I may be an immigrant, but I get more benefits, more money than you do as an American.”

That sinks in for you for a second. Where are my tax dollars going? I’m not saying I make a great amount of money, but I make a pretty decent living. Where are my taxpayer dollars going?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
It doesn’t go to illegal immigrants. Steve, they just don’t get any money. What money do they get?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
They get free housing.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No, no. You can’t get health care in America. If they walk into an emergency room, Steve, which is what the Republicans always consider free health care, yes, they get free health care because you’re not allowed to throw somebody out of an emergency room. But they don’t qualify for Medicare. They don’t qualify for Medicaid. They don’t qualify for any benefits. You have to be a qualified person.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
They get it.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No. Where do they get it? They may get a benefit by going into a nonprofit shelter, but you cannot get benefits. If you’re not an American citizen, you can’t apply for benefits. There are no benefits to apply for. This is a myth.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Then answer this question, Senator Brown.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Why can you get a driver’s license in California? Why can California give driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants who come into our country?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
To protect people on the road. In order to get a driver’s license, you have to qualify. You can’t just walk into a place and get a driver’s license. You have to take a driver’s test, or you have to transfer a license from another jurisdiction in which you passed a written test and a competency test, a driving test.

That’s why you give a driver’s license to an immigrant, because you don’t want them driving out there and not knowing what the hell is going on, making it dangerous for the rest of us. At least that’s why we do it in D.C.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
But don’t you have to be a United States citizen to officially hold a driver’s license, Senator Brown?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No. That’s why this draconian approach to proving you’re a citizen at a voting booth is not only against the Constitution, but against everything America stands for, because they will not accept your driver’s license. The reason they will not accept your driver’s license is because you can get a driver’s license without being a citizen.

So you have to prove citizenship. Now, I don’t know how you prove your citizenship. I happen to have a passport, but when my passport was expired a few years ago, I wouldn’t have had any way of proving that I was a citizen. I don’t have my birth certificate. I’m 72 years old. I don’t know where the hell my birth certificate is. I don’t have a Social Security card. I had to actually get one in order to get my new driver’s license.

That was the thing. I had to prove I was a citizen to get my new driver’s license. I had to go with a Social Security card for this new security license that you use for flights and stuff. I had to prove I was a citizen.

So no, this is a narrative. Look, everybody thinks this is going on because it makes sense that people would come to America because there’s free money. But there is not free money. We just spent $100 billion attacking a country that we had no interest in attacking. They hadn’t done anything to the United States. We just attacked them, and that’s $100 billion. That’s more than the entire welfare system put together. And there is no welfare in America anyway. There are families with dependent children.

This is a myth that people put out there, and it makes sense to them. But people are not getting a lot of money.

So what do you think about spending all that money to open the Strait of Hormuz, which was open before we started the nonsense? What do you think about things like that? You voted for a man, and this is a question I’d like to know from Trump supporters. You voted for a man who said he wasn’t going to get involved in foreign wars.

So far, he has gotten involved. He set the Middle East on fire. He invaded Venezuela. He talked about taking over Cuba and Greenland and making Canada the 51st state. What do you think about a man who promised he would not get involved and now is involved everywhere?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
That’s a loaded question. In Venezuela, we went in there. We took the dictator out. You guys admit, we have a president who has done things that no other president has done or had the balls to go do.

Iran, right? There had been talk about removing them, but that man actually gave the orders and they took him out. They also took out the dictator down in Venezuela. That is amazing to me, how you could just go get a dictator in the middle of the night. God bless our troops. I love our military. We have the strongest, best military in the world, no doubt.

Who could go into Venezuela and take a dictator out of his room? I don’t know where the heck he would stay. I think he was in his bedroom. They took him out and brought him back to the United States without anybody being harmed.

In regard to Iran, Israel is one of our partners, our allies. We’ve got to protect the Middle East. If Iran has a nuclear weapon, or they’re enhancing nuclear weapons and they want to take out Israel, what’s going to happen? You tell me what’s going to happen. War will break out.

FAFO, Senator Brown. You want to go bomb Israel? Go bomb it.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No, I don’t want to bomb it.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
But that’s the right thing. We need to protect our allies. The Middle East has always been an issue for Obama, Bush, Biden, even Griffin.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Steve, wait a second. It was an issue for Jesus Christ. It has been an issue for 2,000 years.

Now, look, the Iranians didn’t have a nuclear weapon.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
You don’t know that, Senator Brown.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No, we do know that because Donald Trump said they didn’t have a nuclear weapon and that we were trying to get rid of their nuclear ambitions, which is a contradiction in terms. There is no way to get rid of someone’s ambitions. If you want to do something and I come over and step on you, that doesn’t mean you’re not going to still have the ambition to do it.

The Iranians haven’t given up any of their ambitions for a nuclear program. We didn’t get rid of the ayatollah. We replaced him with his son, who is even more radical. We closed the Strait of Hormuz. It’s time to stop running the show.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Yes, he is.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
The country is in chaos. That’s another chaos. They don’t know what they’re doing. They went over there and killed all the leadership, and then they came out two weeks later and said, “We’ve got nobody to negotiate with.” Of course you’ve got nobody to negotiate with. You killed everybody.

Now they’ve got the younger, more radical son. Everybody is saying there has been no regime change. There has been no regime change. It has just been a transition to a new regime.

If they’ve done so much, how come they came up against this little country with our massive, amazing military, which I agree with you is amazing, the most amazing fighting force on the face of the planet, and we still haven’t beaten it? Because these guys don’t know what they’re doing. That’s my opinion.

But you’re okay with the fact that he is now involved in foreign war?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
I’ll tell you why. Because he said he wasn’t going to put boots on the ground in Iran. If we had boots on the ground in Iran, I think this would be over. I don’t want boots on the ground in Iran. I don’t agree with that, having a son in the military.

But he is going to do what he means. Let me ask you a question. What do you think about somebody all these other presidents said they were going to take out? Hell, even Jimmy Carter couldn’t take them out in 1979.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No, no. I was working with Jimmy Carter in 1979, and they took our hostages in the embassy. That’s absolutely true. They have been screaming “death to America” for 40 years. But you know what? We have been screaming “death to Russia” for the last 40 years, and we have been screaming “death to North Korea,” and nobody is bombing Washington, D.C.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
I don’t know if anybody is saying “death to Russia” or “death to North Korea.” In fact, this president has tried making peace with North Korea. He went to North Korea when no other presidents would even do that to talk to Mr. Kim, President Kim. He has a pretty decent relationship with Putin, although Putin is not following through on his promises in regard to stopping the war over there.

He’s doing other stuff that no other president has done. If you’re telling me Bernie Sanders is going to go do that, I’ll take a look at Bernie Sanders in 2028.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
I completely agree with you that he is doing things no other president would do. I think a little bit of it is that he is a celebrity.

I also think that, to go back a little bit, when you want to talk about taxpayer money, I would love to. What about the National Guard? What about the $200 million that became $400 million to build a ballroom bunker? What about the reflecting pool emergency?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
By the way, that has been stopped by a judge.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
Okay. Well, that’s great to hear. I hope immigration changes are stopped by a judge too, but I digress.

I have to say, I am not fully under the impression that it is the United States’ responsibility or business to intervene in the domestic politics of other nations, especially regime changes. I don’t think that is our responsibility.

I would also like to add in that we have a comment from a guest sharing from Pennsylvania who says, “Just because President Trump makes a statement doesn’t mean it’s the truth.”

Speaker 5 - Listener / Audience Comment:
How does the U.S. have the strongest military in the world? Our military is depleted right now.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Yeah, we still have the strongest. Are you kidding me? We still have the strongest. Our military is not depleted. How are we depleted? Depleted in what?

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
Missiles, warheads, drones.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
What do you want to talk about?

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
All of those. Missiles, warheads, drones. Yes.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
No, we’re doing fine.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
I would agree we’re still very strong. But to follow up on what Liberty is saying, why Venezuela? Why not India? Why not North Korea? Why not Russia? Why not a lot of other places where there are dictators? Why Venezuela?

I can tell you why Venezuela. Because North Korea doesn’t have any oil. Neither does India. This is what these guys are after. Donald Trump is a billionaire.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
They’re more after the minerals right now.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Whatever. They’re not after spreading democracy around the world. I can tell you that.

How about his profiteering? He is phenomenally more wealthy than when he started. He has sold Bibles. He has sold steaks. He has sold steak knives. He has sold influence. Even the Republican National Committee sent out things saying if you gave him money to his campaign, you would get inside information. He has sold colleges. He’s selling cards. He’s selling coins.

Why should the president of the United States have a side hustle? You don’t think that’s horrible?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
He’s making money on his side. It doesn’t bug me. I understand the point of that. Why does it upset the Democratic Party so much that he does that? It certainly doesn’t bug me. All I’m worried about is what he is doing for me. What is he doing for us? What is he doing for our military? That’s the thing I’m worried about. The stock market is doing pretty decent.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Rich people are doing great.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Since he took office.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
Military Times says U.S. munitions depleted by the Iran war will take years to restore. I mean, those are just the facts. You’ll never hear that on Fox News. Maybe you’ll hear it too much on CNN. I don’t know.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
So you’re basically saying we’re screwed? If we go to war with China, we’re going to lose that war?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
If we go to war with China, it’s not going to have anything to do with the munitions. It’s all going to have to do with cyber warfare. That’s the next battleground, cyber war, with somebody like China.

And if we go to war with India, they have a standing army that’s twice the size of ours. There are a lot of places in the world that are great military powers. I would just say that, unfortunately, our military is being misused by these people.

Let me ask you this question. What do you think about all these people who have no experience, like Secretary of War Pete Hegseth, Pam Bondi, Judge Jeanine Pirro, Kash Patel, or Jared Kushner? What do you think of these people who are around him?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Well, Jared is not an official, right?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No, but he gets a lot of stuff. It’s crazy.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
I think he’s doing a wonderful job. He’s doing a great job. In regard to Pete, I think Pete is doing a great job. He does have experience. He is like Trump. He is an outsider. He is getting rid of all the old people who have been in office. He is cleaning house.

I’m not going to talk about Pam. Pam did a wonderful job, but she’s not in office anymore.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Yes, she is.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
She’s stepping down, right? She did a great job.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Let me ask you, what if you came to my hospital and I said, “I know you have a problem with surgery, but you’re going to love this hospital. We got rid of everybody with experience. We got rid of all the doctors. We got rid of all the old surgeons. Everybody here is just out of medical school. Come on in. Good luck.”

Why is getting rid of old people smart? I’m an old person. Why is getting rid of old people smart? If we have the greatest country in the world, these are the people who made it the greatest country in the world, not the new kids on the block.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
You’re basically saying, so Liberty, I’m going to call you out here real quick. How do you feel about that, being youthful? Are you saying that the youth shouldn’t be promoted up? That the youth don’t have ideas? That we should just ignore them because we’re an older crowd? I don’t agree with that.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
I don’t think it’s that the youth shouldn’t be promoted up. But I think the only people who will promote the youth are the elders.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
There you go.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
And that’s what they are doing right now.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
But there are certain things where experience really matters. Look, there’s nobody in the world who doesn’t want a more efficient government and doesn’t want to get rid of waste and fraud and all these things people constantly talk about.

But there is no bureaucracy in which there is not fraud and abuse. The military is the perfect example. I used to be a person who was in charge of a public interest group called the Defense Budget Project. They were the people who discovered we were paying $800 for toilet seats for airplanes and $1,500 for metal screws that you could buy at a hardware store for 60 cents.

There is abuse in the bureaucracy all along the way. The overrun on the M1 tank was more than all the welfare fraud that Republicans had said had happened since the beginning of the time that the government started to take care of people. There was more cost overrun in the M1 tank, which is a weapons system that is not widely used, I don’t think.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Let me interrupt. Excuse me. I want to change the topic. I know I’m running out of time. Could you tell me the difference between what is a Democrat and what is a Democratic socialist? Because I don’t have a clue. And number two, why do they not get along in your party?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
I must say I’m proud to say that, as Will Rogers said, we belong to no organized political movement. We’re Democrats.

That’s the first thing. We’re not all alike. The Republicans are much more homogeneous than we are. That’s one problem.

But the difference is that democratic socialism is a feeling that the government should do more in providing basic services. Now, a lot of people believe that we should have a laissez-faire government and that business can take care of a lot of stuff. Democratic socialists believe that the primary responsibility of government is to provide a stable basis for the citizens.

There have been very successful democratic socialist countries like Sweden, the Netherlands, and Norway. People look to that as a model. In smaller countries, there are all sorts of different politics. But that’s the basic difference.

People confuse it with words like communism, which Donald Trump uses all the time. But communism and socialism are just as close as the Republican Party and fascism are. They are two totally different things.

So when the president is out there saying we’re electing communists in New York City, and we’re going to crack down on Washington, D.C., if they elect that Democratic socialist, which they will, by the way, when he calls him communist, he’s trying to reframe the argument. But they are not.

The classic one is Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is a classic democratic socialist. He believes that the government should provide basic health care, basic housing, and all the things you need to get along in society.

Personally, I’m a democratic socialist. I believe it’s more important as we go along and engage with things like AI that you have these basic services, because a lot of them are going to be lost in the future.

So that’s my understanding of democratic socialist, and that’s the difference. Democrats don’t get along. It’s half our problem. The old canard in politics is that Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line. That’s a big difference too.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
How much will the upcoming elections be affected by this?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Given a competent opposition, there wouldn’t be a single Republican who could get elected right now. But I also think that the Democratic Party’s brilliant talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory may actually come into play.

Also, when you’re talking about congressional elections, you’re talking about things that are different locally. What Trump is doing has an effect, but it’s not the only thing. There are people who believe in the Republican Party and believe in having Republicans in Congress. I believe in having Republicans in Congress.

So yes, I think the Democrats are going to take back the House. I think there’s a slim shot they could take back the Senate. But I think they’ll definitely take back the House. That’s my prediction. Of course, I’m the guy who said Jimmy Carter would win.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
I have a question for you, building on this conversation. What is one criticism of President Trump that you think is fair? And how do you believe it should influence a voter who agrees with most of his policies, like yourself?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Give me an example of a criticism.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
That’s what I’m asking.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
We already talked about immigration because obviously that’s a big one right there.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
I don’t think you’re hearing it that way. I’m asking for a criticism of President Trump that you believe is fair. Or is he just perfect?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
I don’t have a criticism of him at all.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
How about that he doesn’t say anything mean about white people, only people of color? Doesn’t that bother you?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
I don’t believe that.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
You don’t believe that?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
No. I would probably say that he could improve, and this is just my opinion, in regard to immigration and stuff like that. Like I said before, people who have been in this country 20 or 25 years, who are paying taxes and everything like that, I think there should be a process in regard to how they could become legal citizens. I said it. That’s kind of where he gets criticized, but that’s just my opinion.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
How about that he has no respect for women and that he calls female journalists stupid? What about that? Shouldn’t you have something for him as the leader of the free world?

He throws a wrestling match, and you talk about things that are fake. You want to tell me wrestling and cage fighting is something that we should put on a pedestal in front of the White House? I was horrified by that.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
I’m glad you brought that up. I did attend the UFC. I had the time of my life. It was open to all American citizens. It wasn’t party, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, socialists, whoever you were. You could have easily applied for a lottery system to get a ticket.

I had a great time. Seriously, I have a lot of Democratic friends, probably more Democratic friends than Republicans. But I could tell you that a majority of my Democratic friends said, “You know what? I talked a lot of crap about this being on the White House grounds, but it is probably one of the best events I have ever seen in my life.”

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
What was the show? Why not a cockfight? Why not a dogfight?

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
I’m happy you had fun. One thing I will say is, I agree Trump is a great entertainer. He was when he was best friends with Epstein as well. Don’t you see that as a point of criticism?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
No comment. No proof.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Let me just say that cage fighting, what you saw on the White House grounds, and I’m glad you had a good time, but that’s not a sport like pugilism. That’s not Muhammad Ali. That’s not Leon Spinks. That’s not what it is. It’s barbaric. And that’s the same place where children come to roll Easter eggs.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
By the way, at Easter eggs when Biden was in office, they had LGBTQ people there, right? They were taking off their shirts. They were supposed to be women and they were flashing their boobies to children while they were out there.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
I never saw that. You hear a bunch of Republicans saying that.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
I have a picture I can send you.

I had fun. The majority of people there were Republicans, I will say. We had a good time. But you did not hear as much crying from us when it came to all the parties on the White House grounds.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
But they were different. We didn’t pave over the Rose Garden. We didn’t tear off half of the White House. They were distinguished events.

This guy is really instinctive, and he loves giving red meat to his constituents. But if you think this man has any class at all, that’s crazy. He does not. He’s not distinguished. The leaders of the world laugh at us. Watch the Danish Parliament laughing when he talks about taking Greenland. The French president made fun of him at an international conference.

This man is a buffoon. You say you admire him as a businessman. He’s gone bankrupt six times. Name me another businessman who has gone bankrupt six times. You would have to do great research, because he has had enough money that he has been able to recover each time. But he has gone bankrupt.

The man paid $750 in taxes in 2017. Do you think that is fair?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Yeah, I do. He’s a smart man. If I could do what he can do, or you could do what he could do, you would do it.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No, sir, I wouldn’t. I have a moral compass. I wouldn’t cheat on my taxes to screw other people. I wouldn’t do that. That’s what he has done. He has not taken advantage of the tax law. He has lied. He has been taken to task.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Let’s talk about Pelosi. Let’s talk about all your rich people on the side. Don’t you like Nancy Pelosi?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
If you don’t like Nancy Pelosi, don’t elect her president. We’re not talking about Nancy Pelosi. We’re talking about a man who is supposed to be the leader of the free world. That’s the difference.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
And Joe Biden.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Stop. Let me just say, he is a laughingstock.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
He puts the fear of God in our enemies. Let me tell you that much.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
So your argument is that works?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Why did Putin invade? Because Biden was in office.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Putin was ready to invade earlier than that.

Look, he posted a video of Obama as a monkey, and he also has a picture of himself as God. One of the people in your fight called the only African American First Lady in the history of the United States a man publicly, to disgrace her, and you don’t draw the line?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
That didn’t come out of POTUS’s mouth.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No, those words came from the event where you had so much fun. That’s what I’m saying. It’s not a matter of having fun. It’s a matter of what is dignified and what is not for that particular place.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
And transgender people showing their breasts on the White House grounds is dignified?

I have another question to ask you, and it’s around that subject. Don’t re-elect Joe Biden if you don’t like that. Joe is never coming back. Thank you. We’re done with Joe, right? We’re moving forward.

That’s one thing I hate too, when they come into office and each president blames each party. You’ve got the job now. You do it. Stop blaming people.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Okay. Now I’ve got a question. His popularity right now is 34% in the latest Reuters poll. That’s the lowest popularity of any president in modern history.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
He had the highest popularity at one time.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
No, he didn’t. He never had the highest. He had higher than other people he was around, but never the highest.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
People don’t like higher gas prices. We don’t like it. I don’t like it. He’s working on that. People don’t like the Iran war.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
But we have our own reserves here too.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
It doesn’t matter how much oil you have.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Oil is not gas. You can pump all the oil in America, but if you don’t have the refinery capacity, you can’t put out any more gasoline now than you ever did. It takes 10 years to build a refinery. So it doesn’t matter how much oil you pump. You’re just going to keep it in barrels. You can’t refine it.

This is another myth they put out there, that we’re energy self-sufficient. We’re not. Global warming is not a hoax. The world is falling apart environmentally, but this guy wants to dig more coal.

Look, the policies they’re putting forth are not going to hurt me at all. They may not hurt you if you have money in the stock market. They are going to hurt Liberty Jones. They are going to hurt my children, and they are going to hurt your children. That’s the thing that bothers me most about this.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Senator Brown, we are doing our part as a country in regard to that. What is China doing, one of the leading producers in the world? India has billions and billions of people. They’ve got polluted rivers. What are they doing?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
They are doing a lot. They are environmentally conscious. But the United States can do better.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Do you know we’re having a sandstorm from the Sahara coming in and invading Florida and the East Coast this week? How do we stop that? We can’t stop that.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
You can’t stop that. But if you take the Industrial Revolution, the Western countries, including the United States, have done more polluting of the world than all the other countries on the face of the planet combined. We have no right to just point fingers. There’s only so much we can do, but calling it a hoax is not the place to start.

We could be putting money into solar energy. The point is, to get out there and say it’s not happening, when it’s his job to be a leader, is not leadership.

Go ahead, Liberty. Do you have something you want to say?

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
At the end of the day, I know our time is running out. I truly believe we are all on the same team. We want the best for our country. I think we’re wronged by media. I think we’re wronged by false narratives. I think we’re wronged by fake news. Truly, we want the same thing.

I was watching a video of Mitt Romney when he was running against Obama, and he was such a morally sound individual. He would speak. I’d go to Mitt. I’d vote for Mitt.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
And I’m happy you did.

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
I think that’s the beauty of politics in the United States. I think that’s the beauty of being such an intelligent country.

I think the problem with Trump, you said it yourself, is that he loves to shift blame. The politics of this country have never been as polarized as they are today, maybe in part because Trump is a celebrity. He knows what to say to gain attention.

My question to you is, do you think that’s right? Do you think the best way to approach this is doing what he does and constantly shifting blame to a different person for national debt, for military losses, being that he is only throwing other people under the bus? Do you think that’s the most diplomatic thing to do? How can we move away from this and create an America where everyone feels safe and free?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Like I said before, I believe both parties need to get away from that. What happened in the past happened in the past. You’re on the clock. Let’s get things done. Democrats do it, and Republicans do it. He does it, but so did Biden. Biden did it a lot to him. They came after his family and everything like that. They blamed everything on Trump. It works the same way for Republicans too.

I’m done with that. I’m done with the blame. Let’s get together. Let’s fix the issue. That’s all I want to say.

But Senator Brown, I’ve got a question for you. Something happened yesterday that really bugged me in San Francisco. I don’t know if you read the news, and I know our friend didn’t tell you about this topic. A congressman was attacked during an LGBTQ parade. He is a known Democrat. His name is Senator Wiener. I’m not making a joke. That’s his name. He was attacked just because of his stance on Israel.

Why do the Democrats hate Israel so much? Why are they saying the pro-PLO stance on Israel is that they don’t believe you? He has supported your party hardcore out in San Francisco. I was really taken back by that, and I just want to get your opinion on it.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Let me say that there are Palestinians in the Democratic Party. There are people who have come from that part of the world, probably not many in the Republican Party.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
They were white homosexuals who went after him, transgenders who went after him, in regard to him supporting Israel.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
That’s not true. Most of our party does support Israel. There are more Jews maybe in the Democratic Party than there are in the Republican Party. I don’t know. But both parties pretty much support Israel.

We don’t like what happened when Israel went after the Palestinians after they did that horrible attack. What they did, killing literally thousands of women and children, was against what a lot of people stand for.

Now you can say, and I understand, they started it with the Israelis. The Israelis said to themselves, “We’re not going to let happen what happened 75 years ago when these people tried to wipe us off the planet, and we’re going to make sure it never happens again, even if we have to kill every damn one of them.” There are a lot of people who side with that and say, “Yeah, they shouldn’t have started it.” There are a lot of people who say killing women and children is never right.

I don’t know what transgenders have to do with anything. Why is it relevant that the people who attacked this guy were transgenders?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
The news article said the transgender people came after him for their support against Israel.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Transgenders as a rule are very passive. They’re not particularly aggressive.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
It was a trans march.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
That doesn’t mean they were transgender. I have a granddaughter who would show up for something like that to support them, and she’s not transgender.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
It goes back to your party attacking each other again. It seems like it’s a pattern to me. I don’t get it. I don’t know why they would attack this gentleman who has done nothing but bend over backwards and supported these folks, and yet they attack him on Israel.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
You’re a Trump supporter. You think Donald Trump is a good man, and three people from your party have already tried to murder him. Three people from your party have taken shots at him with weapons. Three people from your party have actually killed other people trying to kill him. So what the hell is up with that? You guys all get along?

Speaker 4 - Co-host, Liberty Jones:
On that note, that was a saucy answer.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
I’ll ask you one last thing. What do you want to say that you haven’t said before we leave?

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Are you talking to me?

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Yeah, you.

Speaker 3 - Guest, Steve:
Thank you for having me on, Senator Brown. Thank you for being gracious. I think we all want the same thing. I do wish we could come together as a country. I could understand more of your point of view. Thank you for educating me on what to do for change, and maybe a fair path as a Democrat.

Speaker 2 - Host, Michael D. Brown:
Maybe if we have more of these discussions, we will. Thank you very much, Steve, and thank you, Liberty Jones.

We leave you with a song every week. So this one goes out to Steve. This is Donald Trump’s favorite rock and roll group, from what I understand. Cheers.

“Macho Man” by the Village People. See you next week.