Speaker Identification
Speaker 1 - Announcer / Intro Voice
Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp, Host
Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum, Guest
Speaker 4 - Advertisement / Public Service Announcement Voice
Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer, Guest

Speaker 1 - Announcer / Intro Voice:
Are you ready for new dimensions and countless possibilities today and for the future? It is an exciting new time, and the answers are out there. So join Mary Jane Popp as she explores the unique and unusual for a better life on Popp Talk and Search for the Truth. And here she is, Mary Jane Popp.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
I love to search out that truth. You know that, because you folks and I share these things on an everyday basis, but we just do not always think about them. Well, it is about time that we will.

Now, we have a good hour. A little bit later on, Victoria Summer is going to be joining us. She is a singer and actress, and she has a great story. She has done some fantastic things, and you have seen her on the big screen and the small screen. You know me: I always like to find out about people and what they are all about.

The other thing is that I always want people to be positive and joyous. That brings me to this: we all want to be happy, right? But would you believe that being kind is the fastest way to happiness? Jordan Birnbaum thinks so. Jordan is a serial entrepreneur, speaker, author, and founder of Jordan Birnbaum Consulting. He looks for social-science solutions for people and businesses. From holidays to everyday life, being kind can fit into your life. We are going to find out how from Jordan.

Hi, Jordan. How are you?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
I am wonderful. I am so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Tell me about social-science solutions. What does that mean?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
Social science is one of those things that we all experience and understand intuitively. These are the forces around us that shape our decision-making. If we are thinking about what might affect someone's decision-making, we might ask: Did they get good sleep last night? Did they have a fight on the way to work this morning, or did they have a pleasant surprise? What affected their mood? What in the environment might affect how people react to stress or to positives?

When you are in the world of social science, what you really do is learn the names of things we all experience instinctively. The reason that is so powerful is that once you learn the name of something, it allows you both to speak about it and to use it with intentionality.

The easiest example I can give is that we all understand intuitively that people are more motivated to avoid losses than they are to secure gains. In other words, people hate losing more than they like winning. This is something we have all experienced and figured out through repetition, even as kids. But until you know there is a principle called loss aversion that describes this exact thing, that idea is only available to us through our instincts. That is why learning the names of these social-science forces is so powerful: it allows us both to identify them and to start using them on purpose.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Yes, but do we not realize that there are going to be losses in our life? It could be relationships, family, jobs, or any number of things. There are going to be losses. Are we not strong enough to handle that?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
Unquestionably. But the way I would frame it is this: I could say to a leader, "Think about all the promotions you stand to gain by improving." Or I could say to that leader, "Think about all the promotions you stand to lose by not improving." The second sentence is actually twice as motivating as the first. It is merely understanding that if people are more motivated to avoid losses than secure gains, we can use framing to help present the most persuasive argument that we can.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Give me an example from your own life, where the loss was stronger than the gain for you.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
If I were trying to analyze myself on an emotional level, I think I am probably more motivated by a fear of failure than I am by a desire for success. I think that is probably pretty common. One of the things I have found is that accomplishment tends to be a little bit underwhelming. It is never as good as we anticipated. In that regard, I have experienced firsthand the power of loss aversion. I have also tried to use it for good when trying to motivate people toward making healthier life decisions by framing things in terms of loss aversion.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
You mentioned the fear of failure, which is an overwhelming fear for most people. But can it be a learning process? Do not get me wrong: we all make mistakes. There is failure, if you want to call it failure. It is a mistake. If you keep doing the same failure over and over again, then that is just plain stupid. You should write that across your head. But fear of failure can also be a learning process, can it not?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
Unquestionably. I think failure itself, on a certain level, can exist within an organizational culture where you say that failure is not only okay, it is in some ways encouraged. It means you are trying new things. As long as something is learned, even if you did not get the outcome you wanted, "failure" is a funny word for it. It gives you new information for moving forward.

The way we all improve is by making mistakes. Part of making our lives as impactful as possible is giving ourselves room for that to happen and not beating ourselves up or thinking it is a reflection of our worth.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Define kind.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
I would say kindness is an intention and an action to positively affect someone else.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Give me an example.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
Providing someone with a meaningful compliment is one example, especially when you can tell you are identifying something important and deep within their persona. Making people feel seen is kindness. Going out of our way to cheer people up, helping people feel included and encouraged, and making gestures of generosity and support are all ways we can be kind to the people in our lives. It is funny what happens to us when we are kind. It is about as good as life can be.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Let me give you an example of something that happened to me yesterday. I do my exercises in the morning - bike, weights, all that kind of stuff - and then I take a walk. A young man a couple of doors down came out, and I said, "Good morning. How are you doing?" He said, "Oh, okay." I said, "Looks like work never ends, does it?" because he was loading things into his SUV. He said, "Yeah, and it is my birthday, and I have to work."

So I said, "Stay where you are. I only live a couple of doors down. I want to give you something." I went back on a whim. I had a package of cookies I had not opened, so I took the cookies over to him and said, "Happy birthday." The smile I got back from that young man was incredible. It made me feel better than I think it did him. He said, "You know what? You made my day," because nobody else had cared to give him cookies or cake or maybe even just wish him a happy birthday.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
That is wonderful. I am so glad you are in a headspace where that is your natural instinct. It is an indication that you are in a healthy place, that you can approach that situation and instinctively want to do something to make that person feel happy. It is wonderful that you did that, and I am happy that this young man had that experience. But can you imagine a scenario in which you would do something like that and then be in a bad mood?

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
No.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
No, it is not possible. Helping somebody lifts you up in an incredible way. I always tell people that if they are feeling depressed, go out and be nice to somebody.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Do you know what I do? This sounds really silly, but I have done it for years. If I am shopping in the mall and passing people, I smile at them. The first time, they might think, "What is this crazy lady smiling at me for?" But if I see them coming back the other way, they smile back. It feels good for me and it feels good for them.

I do not think people get much of that in this day and age. It is crazy out there, Jordan. There is a lack of kindness toward each other. Society is against each other, politics is against each other. It is amazing when one little tiny thing can make a change, right?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
Unquestionably. The fact that they smile back gives you the evidence you need about what matters to people. It does feel crazy out there. Yet every time I go anywhere and talk about kindness, or write about kindness and try to make it cool and something we all aspire to, the response is incredible. It resonates so deeply with so many people. One of my questions is: why are more of us not bringing it out to the surface and making it more of a conscious intention?

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
What I worry about, Jordan, is electronics, especially with young people. Their noses are in the phone or the computer. Do not get me wrong: I am running my show with three computers. But face-to-face - there is nothing better than face-to-face or voice-to-voice. You can hear the inflection. With electronics, all you can do is either shout or not shout. That is it. I want to hear the inflection. I want to hear what people are feeling. You can feel that from the face, body language, and voice, right?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
Yes. That makes me think of something. I am old enough that I was going to parties before we had cell phones. When you are a teenager or a young person and you go to a party, it is awkward, especially in the beginning when you are trying to find someone to talk to and trying to fit in. If I had had a phone to look at to help me get through that, there is a whole skill set I never would have learned, because I would have gone straight to the phone.

What you are talking about is very valid. At the same time, evolution is evolution. Sometimes it works in our favor and sometimes it creates new challenges. What we can do now is counter-program. We can understand what the effects are and try to be intentional about finding balance, because technology is obviously taking us in this direction. It is incumbent on us now to start being intentional about making real connection with people in real life.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
What do you think is going to happen with artificial intelligence? It is here to stay. It is not going anywhere, and it is going to get stronger. Will that take over so things become worse than they are today?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
I guess the question is this: if artificial intelligence can take over everybody's job, could it not also take over all the CEOs and all the shareholders? At what point do we see this as being about finding a progressive path forward for humanity? It is almost as if we have lost sight of why we do capitalism in the first place. The point is that everybody trying to make things better for themselves is what gets to the best outputs for everybody. That is why we do it, because it gets to the biggest point of collective good.

It feels to me like everyone has lost perspective on AI. If it is going to take all our jobs, who is going to buy anything? The system will not work if AI replaces all the jobs, because there will not be an economy to support that. The economy only works when everybody participates.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
I agree one hundred percent. But I do worry about that. Did you ever see the movie WALL-E?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
No, but I know about it.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
It is about a really polluted Earth where robots pretty much take over, and people are just hanging out doing nothing because the robots or androids can do everything for them. It is kind of scary, because is there any motivation to be successful, to help others, or to be kind if they take over?

I have interviewed so many researchers who are working directly on artificial intelligence. The final question I always ask is, "Do you think they will ever come to the point of being sentient and being able to think for themselves?" Every time, Jordan, there is a pause, and they say, "We do not know." To me, they know something when they say that. But I do not know where we are going with it. We are using artificial intelligence, but I do not want artificial intelligence taking over. I want it to be a tool, just like computers, phones, Siri, and Alexa are tools. I do not want it to take over my life. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
I do. You brought up such an interesting paradox of humanity. We aspire to become more comfortable, but the more comfortable we become, the less effective we become.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Thank you.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
There is a point of diminishing returns, where you become so comfortable that you just stop moving forward. It is a really interesting existential challenge, and I do not think there is an answer.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
No, there is not. To be honest, that makes me nervous. I like answers to things, but I do not always get them. I want people to have ambition, motivation, creativity, and imagination. I do not want that to be lost to AI.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
At least as far as generative AI goes, I do not think it will be. One thing I feel comfortable about is that creativity is why human beings will always beat ChatGPT. ChatGPT will always be regurgitating something that already happened. What ChatGPT gives you today is what you did yesterday. What you are doing today is what ChatGPT is going to give people tomorrow. It is always going to get people right into the middle of a standard distribution with the same average output. It will always be new people with new ideas who are doing the things that get everyone else's attention.

So until sentience happens, I do not worry about creativity and generative AI. But if it becomes sentient, all bets are off. I have no idea what will happen.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Me neither. The other thing is that AI is smart. They say it cannot think because it is programmed. But AI has formed new chess moves that have never been done before, and soccer plays that have never been created before. I do not know. To me, that is thinking. Maybe I am wrong.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
No, you are right. I do not know how to explain that. Generative AI creating new soccer plays is very interesting. I was speaking more in terms of the written word, but I probably need to expand my thinking.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
AI can write in the style of Shakespeare or Longfellow. Sometimes it comes up with things better than what we write. But I want the mistakes a human makes, because that is human. It is not robotic. I do not want to get to the point of being robotic.

I have a friend whose daughter just went into college. The professor basically said, "I want a synopsis of the story you are going to write, and let AI check it out." No. I want a human being checking it out, not AI. AI can help me with a few things, with terms or whatever, but I do not want it to rewrite what I say or how I say it. That is not right.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
Something else that is interesting is that when it comes to content creators, most people who do what you do or what I do for a living are comfortable with the blank page. We can take a blank page and get started. But that is not how it is for a lot of folks. For people who really struggle with the blank page, that is where ChatGPT could be a terrific asset to help them get started. But even whatever ChatGPT creates, I agree with you: it should be a human being who then takes that as a starting point. The idea of running it past ChatGPT to evaluate it feels backward.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
On the air periodically, I say, "Hi, this is Mary Jane Popp - maybe." AI can copy style, the sound of my voice, and all these things. I say, "You may be talking to Mary Jane AI instead of Mary Jane Popp." I know that may be an extreme, and it probably will never happen in my lifetime or yours, but those are questions I like to ask so we have some idea of what the possibilities are out there with AI, medicine, and all these things.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Anyway, we are getting off the subject of being kind. Give me some examples of how to be kind. One thing you said: if someone is sitting alone at a table in a cafeteria or somewhere, invite them over to your table. They may say, "Are you nuts? What do you want with me?" But I think it is a way to start a conversation.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
Sure. One of the things I think about when we talk about kindness, especially around the holidays, is that we often think of the holidays as a happy time, with families getting together. We default to a happy set of images in our mind. But for a sizable portion of the population, the holidays are awful.

Anybody who has lost someone close to them - a parent, spouse, sibling, or other loved one - can find holidays especially painful. The rise of estranged parents and children is extraordinary. There are people not connected to extended family, and there are people who are lonely and living alone. In day-to-day life, it is easy to get lost in the routine, but come holiday time, when people do not have a lot of connection in their lives, they are forced to reckon with it.

I think it behooves us all to think about the people around us and wonder how they are doing. Maybe we can be more proactive and make sure the people in our lives have a good option. Maybe we can be more explicit and say, "If you are looking for something to do, there is a spot open in our house for the holidays."

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Nice. That can really change a life. You are right. I lost my husband on December 8, 2023.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
I am so sorry.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
It is difficult, but the loss makes me want to find new things to do, more exciting things to do, and ways to be kind and share. When the pandemic hit, that was probably the worst time for two generations, maybe three. It was awful. How do we get out of it? The hate that has been prevalent in our country these last couple of years is unbelievable. How do we turn that hate into kindness and happiness?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
I am going to sound a bit lofty here with this reference point, and I want to say that I have never actually read the book I am about to quote. It was shared with me by a close friend, but it was so impactful that I have held onto it. It is a book by Voltaire called Candide, in which he talks about all the things he has experienced in life. Toward the end, when he reflects on all the different things he has done, he finds there was only one thing in his entire life that ever brought him true happiness, and that was tending his own garden.

I think that speaks both literally and metaphorically. One thing we can do when times are this difficult is not put our heads in the sand, but make sure we are investing at least 51 percent of our energy into our own garden: our relationships, homes, friends, and families. I think that is what can help us get through periods when there may be social forces greater than any of us can handle individually. It is a question of finding the right balance between the degree to which we respect ourselves and the people we love, and the degree to which we fight the fight.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Well said. Do you have a website?

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
I am going to be launching one in just a few days, so I will announce it here. The website is www.glindagroup.com - Glinda, as in the good witch. It will debut on Tuesday of next week. Until then, people can find me on LinkedIn.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Fantastic. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us, Jordan. Keep up the kindness, because we need all the kindness we can get out there, not only on the holidays.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
I want to say that what you are putting out into the world is also very positive. It is the kind of thing we can do to make a difference: getting people talking, thinking, and connecting. These kinds of discussions will spark good things, and I applaud you for what you do.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Thank you, and right back at you. Take care. Have wonderful holidays and a wonderful year, period. Take good care.

Speaker 3 - Jordan Birnbaum:
You too.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Once again, that is Jordan Birnbaum. And it is Glinda, like the good witch: GlindaGroup.com. Being kind is the way.

We are going to be even kinder now because we are going to share with a lady who is not only talented, but also very kind. Coming up on Popp Talk.

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Speaker 4 - Public Service Announcement Voice:
The Native community is big for me. It makes me feel good to pass on our traditions. My kids love going up to the Sundance. I like to tell people the Sundance is about family. It is about the tribe. It is not just about the dancer. It is kind of like life. As a Sundancer, I am just one spoke in the wheel. I need my family there. I need my role models. I need my people there, especially my children.

Coming in that door, my family is ready to see me, and they believe in me. Before, I had never seen that from my people. But now, when I walk in that door and see those smiling faces and they are happy to see me, that is special. With my four kids, all I ask for them in a prayerful way is health and happiness, nothing more and nothing less. Never stop being a dad. That is dedication. Find out more at fatherhood.gov. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
She is an actress and a singer extraordinaire, perhaps best known for her role as Julie Andrews in Disney's Saving Mr. Banks. Her list of credits goes on and on, just like she says in her song, including Transformers: Age of Extinction. I could go on with a whole bunch of things, but I want to be able to talk to her sometime, because she never stands still. It all began with pantomimes, singing in the church choir, and local theater, and she never looked back. She is the indomitable Victoria Summer.

Hi, Victoria. How are you?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Hello. Fantastic. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
You started at age three in your lofty career, really?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Yes. I was doing good toes, naughty toes.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Oh, from ballet. No kidding. So you were in ballet, but were you also into music at that time? I mean, you were only three.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I was. My grandpa at the time - my mother's father - really got me into classical music. I used to wake up early in the morning, put Tchaikovsky on the record player, and dance in the lounge for about an hour before breakfast. I was in love with classical music, and that stayed with me.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Wow. Is your latest movie, Vindication Swim, out yet?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Vindication Swim is out in the UK. It entered the digital charts in the top 20, so it is on Apple and Amazon Prime.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Fantastic. What about Brooklyn All-American?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Brooklyn All-American has not been filmed yet. I am still waiting on that one to materialize, but I am very excited about that project because it has an amazing cast and an incredible group of people to work with.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
That sounds great. You also have a big band that you work with?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I do. Our next gig is New Year's Eve here in Los Angeles at the Biltmore Hotel. We performed last year at the Biltmore for New Year's. We also do major galas. Last year we did the Women in Film gala. I love singing with an orchestra. It is so elevating as an artist. It is one of my favorite things to do.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
If you could describe the style of music that makes you happy and joyous - just like Stranger in Moscow. First of all, why Stranger in Moscow? I love the song, but I want to know why.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I am the hugest Michael Jackson fan, and Elton John as well. If I were to name my two favorite artists, they would be those two. I decided to put the two songs together because at the end of Stranger in Moscow, we moved the music video into Sweet Painted Lady by Elton John. That record, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, was one of my dad's favorite records and one of mine. We grew up listening to Elton John. We used to sit outside his house in Berkshire, because that is where I was born and where Elton John grew up. He had a house there, and we used to sit outside his house and play his music in the car when we were kids.

Those songs mean so much to me as an artist. Michael Jackson affected me greatly growing up. He was the artist I was singing to with a hairbrush in front of the mirror and dancing. My dad got me into Elton John, and that has never left me, particularly his early music. I am just as big a fan.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Amazing. Do you have a philosophy of life? Obviously, you do all these different things: movies, television, big band, recording. What is your philosophy to keep you going and doing all these things?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I think that as beings, it is our purpose to create. For me specifically, I want to make people happy and elevate people through art, whether that is a voiceover, an audiobook, a stage performance, a movie, or whatever it is. It brings me a lot of joy to do that. Being in front of a live audience is one of the most incredible things you can do, whether it is in theater or at an event. Music is my life, really. It always has been. It always elevated me whenever I felt down or felt like I could not do something. I would put on Kelly Clarkson or Christina Aguilera, whether I was running or in the car. Artists have lifted me up, and I want to do the same for others.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Talking about that, you also created a new website and television show called Next Generation Role Model. What is that going to do?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
The purpose of Next Generation Role Model is to shine the spotlight on leaders and visionaries of the next generation. I think it is really important that our youth are role models to others. Setting a good example is very important. I found a lot of amazing young people in Hollywood, and then it became international. I started finding people in England, Spain, and Italy. During COVID, I ended up interviewing them. COVID was a tough time for us all, and I wanted to do something for the world. I wanted to create a show that put the spotlight on kids who are doing good things.

All these kids have pretty big followings on social media. They are out there doing good in the world. Most of them are ambassadors for charities, and I wanted to acknowledge them for being incredible kids and leaders. That is what it is about.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
I think that is great. Is the website still up?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
It is: Next Generation Role Model.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Fantastic. That is easy enough to find. It is a great idea, because with the pandemic, you are right. It shut everything down. People could not exist anymore. People were dying. It was a very depressing time for everyone. To have hope - the word hope has been eroding in the last few years - and it is nice for people like yourself to be able to bring that hope back.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I think so. I think what is important is holding on to our dreams, because that really inspires us to move forward in life. I believe our dreams are very important. I would go as far as to say: write down those ideas and goals every day, and then do a little something toward them. That is the essence of life. It is the spark and the effervescence of life, being on this path of getting closer to your goals and creating your ideal life. That goes across the scale, from family to peers to spirituality and the world as a whole. I think we all need to be here and keep putting good into this world somehow.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
It does not have to be the way everybody else does it. Be unique. Try something creative. You created your own world, and other people can do the same thing. Do you write your own songs?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I do not write that much. On another project at the moment, I decided not to write it myself because I feel like I already do so many different things, and I have not really turned my hands around to that yet. At the moment, the idea of the music is really the female version of Michael Buble. If I could put it into a sentence, that is what I am going toward. I have so many fabulous friends who are amazing writers, so collaborating with them is very exciting.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Good for you. I know you are super busy, but do you have any hobbies? Do you even have time for a hobby?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Yes. I love being at home with my husband. I got married last year in May.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Congratulations, by the way.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Thank you. It took me a long time to find the right life partner, but when you find that person, I think that is the biggest decision we will ever make and a very exciting moment. We really enjoy spending time together. My husband is Italian and a chef, and he has taught me how to cook. I love cooking for him and cooking with him. We have a little home full of animals: two cats and a little Pomeranian. I adore animals, and I have rescued them all. That is really my hobby.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
I think that is more than a hobby. That is a calling. That is fantastic. Bentley, Tiger, and Storm, right?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Yes, that is it.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
I love people who care about animals. I honestly feel that people who care about animals care about people the same way. People who abuse animals - I do not want to know them.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I agree. It says a lot about people, the way they treat animals.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
I have to ask you - and if I am delving into your love life - it is a real-life love story between you and Fabrizio, is it not?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
It really was, because my love life was non-existent for so many years. I was single for eight years. It was a long time. I just had not found the right person and was focusing on my career for so long that I thought, "Is this ever going to happen?" I really wanted it, but it just took me a long time.

We met in England. I had to go back home to England. I put my stuff in storage in LA for a year and went home to my dad because he was not doing very well. I needed to do a lot of work at his house and help with his health. I had to refurbish my dad's house in England in 2019 and get him back in eventually in 2020. Then I met my husband shortly after I got my dad back in the house, in a coffee shop in East Grinstead in West Sussex, England.

I was having coffee with an Italian girlfriend of mine, and she knew my husband. He walked into the coffee shop, and she invited him over and introduced him to me. It was a chance meeting. He was on a stopover on his way to Italy to see his Nonna. Then the lockdown happened. Italy closed down, no one could fly there, and he got stranded in London. We ended up going on our first date in London. We went on eight dates, then there was a major lockdown for us all, and we ended up moving in together.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Amazing.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
That was the story. I basically knew I was going to marry my husband after the first day I met him. I know that sounds strange, but I knew exactly what I wanted, and he was everything I had always wanted and waited for. I was in awe of him, and I still am. I still think he is the most incredible person I have ever met.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
What were your wants?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Number one was six-foot-two. When I stood up, I could tell, "Wow, he is six-foot-two." It is funny. He has dark hair and dark eyes, and that is another thing I wanted. Those are all very physical attributes, but really it is a question of having the same goals. We do have the same goals in life, and I think that makes the biggest difference.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
He is still a chef, right?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
He is. After we met, he got a green card - not because of me, but because he is a great chef. He came here, and I said, "Let us move back to LA, because that is my home." He moved here with me, and he is doing really well here.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Excellent. Who knows? He might get a television show. There are an awful lot of chefs on the air.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
He is working on that right now, funny you should mention it. That is his idea. He wants to have his own show, and he is definitely working on that.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Is he a specialist in Italian food, or other types too?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
He was taught by Nonna in Italy at a very young age. He grew up cooking with her and learned pretty much everything from her. Then he went to chef school in southern Italy. He got a Michelin star in Florence and worked in some of the top hotels in London, like Claridge's and The Connaught Hotel in Mayfair. He was in London for 10 years working as a chef, and now he is a private chef for celebrities here in LA.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
That is fantastic. If you could take a magic wand and wave it in the air, what does Victoria Summer want to do? If you could pick the ultimate thing you would want to accomplish.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I must admit that I feel like Michael Buble's career is amazing. If I could continue singing with the band and have a career like Michael Buble, that would probably be along the lines of my perfect career.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
That is a goal, right?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Absolutely. I still have aspirations in theater. I have my degree in dance and musical theater from Arts Educational Schools in London. That was my first love, really - musical theater, The Sound of Music, and Mary Poppins.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
I have to ask you: to step into the shoes of Julie Andrews in Saving Mr. Banks, that is pretty gutsy. Those are pretty big boots to fill, are they not?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Yes. I was very new in Hollywood then, really. For me to be on set with Tom Hanks and Emma Thompson was just a moment of, "Wow, okay." It was an amazing moment that went by so quickly. Of course, it turned out to be the most amazing film. We did not know at the time how big it was going to be, but it was a big moment for me and a turning point in my career.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Absolutely. Julie Andrews - her voice - I always picture her in The Sound of Music, on top of the mountain and turning around. Unfortunately, she had problems with her voice, with polyps and all that. Look, it happens. Look at Celine Dion. She has stiff-person syndrome, where everything freezes in her throat. To have that happen to glorious voices is just incredible. But it is what it is, right?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Yes, absolutely. It is very sad about Celine, but she seems to have made a comeback. She has obviously had a lot of physical therapy for stiff-person syndrome, and she made the most incredible performance in Paris for the Olympics.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Just amazing. Everybody was in shock when she got up there and did the job she did, because everybody expected maybe half of what she could accomplish. She came back strong, and that is great. But they must have had an awful lot of belief in Victoria Summer to play Julie Andrews. I am serious. It was just great.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Really, it was just what I looked like. My picture was picked out of thousands of pictures, and I looked the most like her. After my photo got picked, I went in to meet with the director. So it was really my picture, and I had the short pixie haircut at the time. That was a moment in my career when I was getting tons of work - commercials, movies. It was just the short pixie haircut.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Others did not have that pixie haircut, so you drew the attention, and that is good. Is it true that you are also a global ambassador for Teen Cancer America?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
That is right. I have been their ambassador for I think eight or nine years now, and I hold afternoon tea events, bringing traditional afternoon tea to America. We have held events since 2016. We held the first one in Los Angeles, the second one in Nashville at the Hermitage, the third one online during COVID, and the fourth tea in Santa Monica at the Fairmont Hotel. I actually performed with my big band.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Fantastic. How many pieces are in the band?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
We have 12.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
That is a good-sized one.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
It was a good size. We had a nice big stage, and we got everyone up there. We raised money for teenagers with cancer and had afternoon tea. We like to keep that going. I like to do as many teas as I can.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Do you have any singles out, or are you working on your first single?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I am recording in the studio at the moment. I am on my second track right now. I go in and put the vocals down next week. I am really excited to start releasing my music. That is going to be a big moment.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
You will have to come back and let everybody know when it is ready to launch.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
For sure. I would love that.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
It seems like you have the best of all worlds, because you have accomplished what you wanted to do and you are doing what you want. So many people say, "You have to get these awards," but awards mean nothing. It is the accomplishment in your own mind - what you have done and what you want to do - and moving on with imagination and creativity. That must be what keeps you going.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Absolutely. I role-model Tom Cruise on that one. He really could not care less about accolades, awards, or people liking him. He is really my role model in that. He wants to create what he wants to create, and he does what he is good at and passionate about. I feel like he is the living legend in Hollywood right now who is really creating what he loves to do. You can tell that passion. It is so palpable. You can see it from miles away. He has no sense of ageism. He just keeps going. When he gets on the screen, you think, "How can he do this?" It is incredible. I have no idea what he is doing to look so fantastic.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
If he is taking an elixir, I want it.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
That is right.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
I think part of it is because he loves what he is doing.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I think so too, and that keeps you young.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
It does. A lot of people say, "I cannot do it. I am done. I am too old." Who says? If you allow yourself to be that way, you will be.

So what do you want people to know about Victoria Summer?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I have new music on the way. I am working on a one-woman show project, which I am very excited about. It might be a little way off; we have not quite got the script ready yet. I am performing at the Biltmore Hotel for New Year's here in Los Angeles. I am working in the studio on new music, and I am very excited to bring it to everybody when it is ready.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
That is beautiful. Do you have a website?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I do: VictoriaSummer.com. Specifically for singing, it is VictoriaSummerEntertainment.com.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
I am putting that down so that when people call, I can tell them. You started out early because you loved what you were doing. I did a lot of singing for the longest time, but life takes us in different tracks. It just does. I was doing musical comedy and singing across the country, different conventions and so forth, when someone dared me to audition for a television show and I got it. So that is what you have to do. The good Lord decides where you are going to be, and He will put you on the right path. You are on the right path because you love what you are doing.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Thank you. As long as I love what I am doing, that is good. I have many interests, so I am probably not going to stick to one thing. I will be like, "Okay, I have done that. Now I want to do this."

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Good for you. I love it. We will be looking for Fabrizio and his own television show. Who knows? Maybe you two can do that together.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Absolutely. I keep saying to him, "You have amazing clients. If they need a singer for one of their dinner parties, I can come and sing."

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Why not? I think that is fantastic. Listen, I want to thank you for taking the time to be with me today. You made it a fun time to talk about life and what it is all about. People have to share that they can still search for life at any age. Age is nothing. We said it about Tom Cruise. He is still doing it - Mission: Impossible, Top Gun. The success of Top Gun was just next level. It is unbelievable what he is doing and continues to do. It is inspirational.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
Absolutely. Reinventing yourself in so many different ways - that is the way to go.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Thank you so much for being with us. I hope you come back and visit again. Let me know when your single comes out, okay?

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
I will do. Thank you for having me on your show. It was so lovely to chat with you.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Right back at you. You take good care now.

Speaker 5 - Victoria Summer:
You too.

Speaker 2 - Mary Jane Popp:
Once again, that is Victoria Summer.